Chirag Shah, General Counsel & EVP, Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs, AHLA Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Chirag discusses how he builds important relationships especially with frequent leadership changes. He talks about lifelong leadership lessons he learned as both a high school attendee and an annual counselor at Boys State and other lessons from his professors and mentors. He also shares his advice on work life harmony, public speaking, and how he hires and develops great teams.

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Rachel Humphrey 0:02

I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors, and we are a non profit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. And I am very excited today to be joined by a former colleague and great friend of mine, Chirag Shah with HLA. Chirag, welcome to DEI Advisors.

Chirag Shah 0:21

Thank you, Rachel. It's a pleasure to meet you. And thank you to you and Mr. Kong for opportunity to present here. Your podcast is fantastic and the work that you do is remarkable. I'm very grateful.

Rachel Humphrey 0:30

We are going to jump right in because anyone who knows us know that we could witty banter all day long. But one of the things that I love about the hospitality industry that I know that you spend a lot of time talking about as an industry goes is how anybody can carve out any path they want in hospitality, really with any career track itself. So talk a little bit about who you are, how you ended up where you are today. And then were there any pivotal moments along the way that maybe really focused how your path would go?

Chirag Shah 1:01

Yeah, I a bit of an unconventional path. I think to, to hospitality, I've spent much of my life in government affairs and politics. Grew up in Wisconsin and my parents are immigrants from India and they were a very civic minded and they were always, Encouraging my brother me to understand the world around us and read current events and be up on the news and things like that. And when I was a kid in the early nineties or so my neighbor of ours ran for Alderman and my dad was the treasurer of his campaign and that was the first time I had gotten to campaign for office, knock on doors and encourage people to get out and vote. And I thought it was the coolest thing. My dad's name was, I think, a size six font in the bottom of the sign treasure or come all shop and it was really cool. And so from that point forward, I had the. political bug and went on to study political science at Wisconsin. I went to law school and studied legislation and how laws are made and interpreted, spent time on a number of political campaigns and then worked on Capitol Hill. And it was during my time on Capitol Hill working for Congressman Joe Wilson from South Carolina that I got to know the hospitality industry because he was a real estate attorney. And many of his clients, his first clients when when he was first starting out were hoteliers. They were members of a group called AHOA. I didn't know this at the time, but he brought me into a bunch of these meetings. And he was their real estate attorney, did a lot of their closings. And they were some of his first campaign supporters. And so I got to know them pretty well. And I worked on a presidential campaign in 2012 at the RNC. We lost badly that year. And I got a call from AHOA saying, Hey, this might be an interesting opportunity. To open the DC office for for the organization. And it was truly a unique opportunity to come out and and really start to advocate on behalf of hoteliers. And to understand what it is to to own and operate a hotel property and what that means for for the community. And I did that for about eight years. I worked with some remarkable people. And I got to know the industry very well. And then a couple of years ago came over to HLA in a similar role. And I've been working on behalf of the entire hotel industry. moving forward. So it's b of fun. And that's, that to logic.

Rachel Humphrey 3:14

It's inte of the things that you me your path originally to a different hotel years and that you were able to buil those hoteliers. And one of the things in hospitality or really in any industry is that we may need to create our relationships with others in a way that's very personal to us. So you and I may have very different styles, although we may end up with the same networks at the end of the day. I actually have two questions on building relationships for you. But the first one I want to just start with is how do you go about forming relationships. How important have they been in not only your path to leadership, but also the success in your role. And then the second part of that question is because of the lobbying and the advocacy work you are on election cycle. So you are constantly building relationships and then potentially those relationships are starting from square one every two years or perhaps more frequently at the local level. How do you learn to pivot and take what you've learned? Maybe from some of those earlier relationships, knowing that you're going to have to start from scratch on a lot of election cycle.

Chirag Shah 4:25

Yeah, I look at it as a quality versus quantity exercise because as you get to know somebody and you actually want to get to know them, DC and the world of politics and government is oftentimes transactional and you're looking for something from somebody and they're looking for something from you. And that is so uncomfortable for me. That whole The idea of a transactional relationship just is not particularly something that I enjoy doing and really don't want to really engage in that type of thing even though that's generally the feel here, the vibe as the the kids like to say. here in D. C. And spending more time with fewer people, I think is a great way to do it. And then also working with people when you don't want something when you don't need something from them. That is really the best time to get to know somebody and actually spend a decent amount of time talking about things that they're interested in. Following up with a handwritten note is a The lesson I learned from somebody on this discussion is an art form. Really, there's a right way to do it. And there's a it's something that's really meaningful to actually come back and have a long term relationship with somebody instead of just getting something from them, moving on sending them articles when something interesting comes up. And really just having a decent amount of time to to spend with them either in person virtually and in a variety of different ways of communication that's to me what has always been helpful, whether it's a member of Congress, whether it is a congressional staff person, whether it's an industry leader, whether it's somebody starting out in the industry, it really is an opportunity to to, if you're genuinely interested in what they have to say, I think they'll reciprocate in a lot of ways.

Rachel Humphrey 5:56

I love that concept of the genuine. Interest in somebody, the handwritten note. I could not think more highly of a good old fashioned, handwritten note. And really, the impact it has to be memorable to someone or the joy that people get when they receive them. 'cause it's so unexpected nowadays.

Chirag Shah 6:13

And don't forget the stamp either. I have a a friend who takes a particular pride in finding the right stamps. Whether it's an American flag stamp or perhaps a stamp bearing a particular vegetable on it, like an okra or something else who's been known to send stamps like that. Something else.

Rachel Humphrey 6:27

The stamps and the pens used to write the notes themselves, for certain.

Chirag Shah 6:32

That's right.

Rachel Humphrey 6:33

One of the other ways that you have built a lot of relationships is that you have a deep commitment to some boards, associations, and nonprofits that actually are not part of the hospitality industry. Why are those roles important for you? And from a leadership standpoint, how can you learn different leadership aspects? Or maybe of the lessons you've learned in those roles that are very different from your day job role?

Chirag Shah 6:59

Yeah. One of the things that I have enjoyed most in my life has been pivotal for my just growth as a person as well as in this industry and in government politics overall has been a program called Badger Boy State. It is put on by the American Legion. There's a boy state and a girl state program in every state. And it's a leadership workshop that teaches civics and the importance of service. to the community. And I there for more than 20 ye high school students as t their senior year. An to understand what motiva a student there when I was a junior in high school and I've been returning every year since. And you really understand what what motivates people especially as kids, they're developing their sense of of who they are and you can really share with them some of the lived experiences that you've had. And that's what I've been able to do in government, in politics in leadership and and really in life. And you, it's really an unvarnished opportunity to see somebody come out of their shell and to really adapt their own style. And that's been a program that has been so important to me over the years and and it's really been instrumental in who I am as a person. And it's a volunteer organization. It's a tremendous group. And many of the relationships that I've had whether it's as public officials who've gone through that experience in their home states or other folks that have really run through that program that's come up time and time again. And that's one of the reasons I've really enjoyed going through that and sharing that experience with others.

Rachel Humphrey 8:28

I have loved to see in the years that I have known you, how important that commitment to remaining a part of Boys State is, whether it be Family or work or other things. You're always carving that time out. I'm curious if there's a lesson that maybe you remember from your junior year when you were there as a camper as opposed to a counselor that maybe sticks with you today or in moments of leadership. Now you're reminded of Oh, I know that I first heard this or first developed this when I was with Boys State.

Chirag Shah 8:58

Yeah, it's a lesson that I learned when I was there. It is something that I've taken with me from that time. It is. Ambition is a great thing. One of the unique hallmarks about that program is that you're put into a circumstance or a thousand other kids there. Nobody knew anybody else. And they designed it that way. So you're, it's a week long experience and you're put in college dorms and you literally know nobody. And so whatever reputation you might have, whether it's positive, popular, it doesn't matter. You're learning how to interact with other people. And and so I got into the program and started thinking, okay, there are ways to advance and learn and really take advantage of the opportunities that are in front of me. And one of my counselors at the time Bob somebody who is very dear to me passed away not too long ago, but he taught me that ambition. is really important. It's not a dirty word. It is something that is great. You can take advantage of the circumstances that you're in and then look to what's next and and find out what are the opportunities to go there and set your goals, set your mind and drive towards it, figure out what it's going to take to get there and then go after it hard. And that is something that I've really embraced personally and professionally. And that's one of the lessons I took away from Boise State.

Rachel Humphrey 10:06

Ambition is a good thing. I like that a lot. Much like we are today, you do a lot of public speaking. Your public speaking can be in a lot of different form. You've certainly got conference speaking to your team, speaking to the boards you serve through your association work. It can also be certainly with elected officials and others. Is that something you've always been comfortable with? Is it something you have preparation strategies today? What are your overall thoughts on public speaking?

Chirag Shah 10:36

Yeah. I was a a Husky Indian vegetarian kid growing up in Wisconsin. And so sports was never going to be my forte. And so when I was in high school, I spent a lot of time doing speech and debate. And so it was one of the things that I really loved. Was engaging in public speaking in front of a variety of rooms, building an argument, but also being able to share a story. And that was something that I learned from a young age. My teachers really encouraged me, and it's something that I took did throughout college, did really enjoy in law school. And even in, in my in political career, one of the things that I enjoyed most was when I was running the attorney general's race in Wisconsin in 2010 was debate prep. And so working with the attorney general, the various legal advisors that he had, and we sat there and went through line by line about preparation for how do you debate with a candidate from the opposite side, and how do you convince an electorate that this is something that is beneficial to them and that's why they should vote for you. And I've done that through throughout my career. And so whether it's been speaking to a small number of folks or. large groups of individuals. One of the lessons that I took was from my dad. He was always particular whether it was a competition of any kind or something you don't want to prepare for. It's visualize success before you do. And so I've long heeded those words in, in terms of before I go out and speak in front of a group, I try to visualize what it looks like. Whether that's going to be a large audience or an intimate group. And then I also think to the late great Aaron Rodgers, who always talks about confidence through preparation. And so he was always particularly keen on making sure that if you prepare for something, that's what is going to foster your confidence. And public speaking is no different. And so I try to prepare as much as I can, know the topic as best as I can, and then get out and hopefully have a great conversation.

Rachel Humphrey 12:26

Do you have other words of wisdom that you have taken from either other Green Bay Packers or other sports heroes?

Chirag Shah 12:34

Sports heroes public speaking, actually, if you want to talk about the greatest public speakers that have ever been sure. You can look to Ronald Reagan or Barack Obama, some of the greatest orders in American history, but perhaps the greatest. Are professional wrestlers, and they go out night after night. The content may be something, but they go out and they speak to arenas that are full, tens of thousands of people that are out there, that are screaming, and they go out and they present passionately about stuff that doesn't actually exist. And be honest with you, I've been inspired to be in this industry by one of the great professional wrestlers that was actually a hotelier. Dwayne The Rock Johnson, of course, was a hotelier in his wrestling life because he was the proprietor of the Smackdown Hotel, which was located at the corner of Know Your Role Boulevard, of course, and Jabroni Drive. Some of the greatest public speakers were professional wrestlers.

Rachel Humphrey 13:26

If no one here learns anything else about you or leadership, may that be the takeaway. Pivoting to other aspects of leadership. We hear from some people that they feel like they knew from a young age that they were born to be leaders, others that there was a moment in time, some even to this day who are leaders don't see themselves that way. You talked about the importance of the impact of your father, perhaps some of your other community activities and also with boys state. But was leadership something that you set out early on that you felt? This was a path or some goal. Maybe if you look at where you wanted to end up, was that something on your radar?

Chirag Shah 14:07

I think I've I've fallen into it in some ways, but I do really look to the examples set by those around me. My dad has always been a leader in our community at home. Whether it's our temple community, whether it's our social community. He's always been a leader. My brother has always been an extraordinary leader. He leads his own company now, but I've always looked to to them first and then a lot of the folks around me political leadership. has been significant. Those folks who really lead in public service have inspired me in a lot of ways. And so I try to take some of the attributes that I've learned from them and as I, whether it's throughout the career or other volunteer organizations it's been opportunities that I've been afforded and I've been able to participate in and worked out that way. But but yeah, it's really looking at the example by those around me that I've been able to follow.

Rachel Humphrey 14:49

If you were to reflect on your leadership, are there some things that you think are getting better over time and maybe some that are getting less successful over time?

Chirag Shah 15:01

Patience. I think that sort of comes and goes. I've been trying to be more patient but sometimes you get impatient when things happen, especially when you, In the line of work that we're in Congress works like molasses in January and it is rough sometimes when you really think that there's a good idea that is going to benefit a lot of people and for political reasons things don't move the way that they should. And so that's definitely been a challenge and trying to explain that to to to business owners or to hoteliers that are used to logical reasoning and trying to explain political motivations for things has led to, to some challenges with patients with me also having three children under the age of seven has also led to some impatience. So that's gone better and that's gone worse. But but that's one of the things that definitely continue to work on.

Rachel Humphrey 15:47

Since you brought up your amazing children, we will pivot and talk a little bit about work life harmony, lessons learned. Obviously you are. Not only in a role that is very demanding, an industry that's very demanding, but also election cycles change things when legal opinions are coming out, whether it be Supreme Court or local ordinances, things like that. How do you adjust to, because when you started your career, obviously it was, not also to have Children at home, but over time, how have you really adjusted to find time to be the great dad and husband that you are and also stay committed at on your career path and to quite frankly, all of the stakeholders that H. L. A. Serves.

Chirag Shah 16:33

I mentioned following examples of great leaders, and there's one in particular that I've learned a considerable amount from. Frequent listeners of this program may be familiar with the Honorable Rachel A. Humphrey, C. H. O. C. H. I. A. E. S. Q. R. E. T. Rachel, you've obviously been a tremendous influence on my life. I've watched you and I know I've told you this 1000 times that I want to be you when I grow up. And one of the lessons that you taught me was Every great leader has to sacrifice and they have to sacrifice somewhere. And it is a matter of. making the right decisions on where and when and how you sacrifice early in my career. I it was a matter of being at the office early, being at the office late, doing all the things, um, the spending breakfast time with with public officials, going through dinners and receptions spending all day on the Hill. And now as I've learned from you in particular, family life is absolutely critical, especially being there early with kids as they're growing up. And I've been able to build in with a wonderful organization to work for. They've been tremendously supportive, but being able to figure out how do I make sure that I'm there with the kids? One of the things I love doing most with them, with my wife, with the family, is is cooking with the kids and finding time to really have foster that interest and excitement with them. But it's figuring out when to sacrifice. If you're going to be really good at your job, you're going to have to sacrifice some things on one end. If you're going to be really good at home but balancing that out to me is what's what's critical.

Rachel Humphrey 17:59

What about on the, one of the things I get asked a lot, especially moderating panels is how leaders lead. And I've used that as a bucket for, are you responding to your own email? Do you go on vacation? Do you Exercise. Do you have hobbies? All of these types of things that people are wondering as your career advances and you're now pulled in a lot of different directions, how do what is the rest of your look like?

Chirag Shah 18:26

Yeah, r most minutes of it with w at home. They, they'r things. It's always a lot them get excited about so time or really get an und My, my oldest Anya, she's And she's getting excited about reading books and wanting to to show, say to my wife and me all the new things that she's learning are younger to are trying to follow suit. And so they're pretending to read and write in their books and things like that. Those are the things that are keeping busy. Definitely had a lot of hobbies. When I was a little bit younger with playing some sports, not necessarily well to playing them. But it's funny. I I had a boss once this was when I was working on, I was interviewing for a political job to run a campaign and boss sits down and he says are you good at golf? He asked me one interview question. He says, are you good at golf? I'm like, man, this could go in a bunch of different ways. A lot of politicians like to golf. So this might be something that he's interested in. And I got, I'm like, I gotta be honest with you. Not really. And he goes, good, you're hired. Cause if you're good at golf, that means you don't work hard enough. I'm like, Oh, all and then he walked out. So these are the types of things you figure out where the balance is. And my golf game has definitely suffered to the better,

Rachel Humphrey 19:36

I love that. Do you have any type of. Personal mantra or words that guide you. I know you said that you've had some impactful leaders that have used phrases that you have carried with you. But is there something day in and day out that is your guiding star when you're Thinking about how to make decisions when you're on your next step somewhere.

Chirag Shah 19:58

Personal brand, for a long time, it was Nike. And then for a short period, it was Adidas and then went back to Nike. But, um, no,

Rachel Humphrey 20:04

Days of what are the required NCAA sportswear?

Chirag Shah 20:07

That's it. Yeah. Those are the t shirts. No and I appreciate you use the word mantra, it's really important to our people. But not necessarily, I think There are a lot of great leaders that have have built out a a track record of being able to identify one thing or a couple of things and following them. I don't know that I'm there yet. I'm still trying to figure it out. I think I love to be collaborative with my team. I love to understand what is driving folks, but and really try to make decisions as a group, but I don't know that there's there's one guiding star yet. I don't think I'm sophisticated enough to really have something that I can own yet that way, but definitely be looking for it.

Rachel Humphrey 20:43

That's interesting. You just mentioned you don't think you're there yet. And I want to, some people refer to it as head trash, others as imposter syndrome, other types of things. Do you experience Any of that imposter syndrome, self doubt, and if so, what are the tools you use to overcome it? If not, if others come to you with those same types of self doubt or questions, how do you help them navigate that path?

Chirag Shah 21:10

Yeah, absolutely. I think I would imagine everybody does. And at some point I'm certainly in that category. I mentioned even from a young age things were tough. I was always different. And fitting in was always. A little awkward and clunky. I was the Indian guy in the Republican party of Wisconsin, so I definitely stuck out. But definitely to the better. And that was one of the things that I really embraced was the diversity of the experiences that I've had. My lived experience was different than somebody else's. And I've leaned in on that. They say, look, there's some great things about my upbringing, my opportunities my, my worldview that I've learned from the people around me and in leaning in on that and having that as a bedrock for me very strong family unit and then a tremendous number of folks that have been supportive of me a strong family at home, but of course wonderful advisors that I've had, including yourself and others that that, that's how I lean in on that, even when there's opportunities that I have that I'm like, ah, I don't know if I've, I can do this. I didn't. Two decades on never litigated before a of things definitely lead The preparation has also helped making sure that you understand the four corners of an issue before you go and you meet with somebody that you know is going to have their homework done. Those things have always benefited me and then talking it through with the team and making sure you're as prepared as you possibly can. That has provided me with the ability to move forward. And it's also given me a bit of empathy for other folks on the team when they come to me and they say, I'm not sure if I understand this and say let's make sure we do the preparation. And then that's all you can ask for.

Rachel Humphrey 22:37

It's interesting that the preparation is a consistent theme from public speaking to preparing for issues to overcoming self doubt. I think that's something I don't know that I realized that you and I have in common as much as we do. I used to say there are going to be way smarter people in every courtroom that I go into, but nobody is going to know the facts better. No one is going to know their case better than I'm going to know. And hopefully at the end of the day, That's gonna carry the case for me. You mentioned the team around you. And one of the things that I have loved being a colleague of yours, but also knowing a lot of your colleagues is the ability that you have to both hire a great team to inspire this great team and to develop along the way for each of those individuals to continue their career journeys, whether it's with your organization or outside of your organization. What do you look for when you're building your team around you and what are some of the ways that you think have maybe been successful for you in developing that talent?

Chirag Shah 23:40

Yeah, I go back to collaboration. When, whenever we've hired in the last several jobs I've had, I've leaned in with my team to say, especially as we're bringing in the next player for the team and to make sure that everybody's bought in. We go through the process together. We'll review resumes together. We'll talk it through. And certainly the responsibility is on me, but I think the decision making process and being collaborative in that way really provides buy in the idea of DEI, the I in particular is one that has has really been important to me because I'm making sure that folks not only are hired for a job, but they feel included in the decision making process. Whether it's hiring, whether it's the direction of public policy, whether it is the direction of the strategic plan. If folks feel included, they're going to have buy in. They're going to they're going to show up early. They're going to stay late. They're going to think about making sure the team is successful at all times. And that has been something that I think has been extremely positive. That has been extremely it's been ideal in the environment that we've been able to build. And the other thing is with With newer members of the team, younger members of the team, I think you learn by doing. And so DC has always been a very you got to pay your dues or some sort of mentality like that. I think there's some some value or some rationale to that, but I think throwing people in, that's how I learned. When I was when I first started out, my boss always said, Okay, you're gonna go and you're gonna have this meeting. You're gonna talk to this member of Congress. I'm like, Am I able to talk to this member? I was, pretty young. There's no way that I knew a lot of the stuff. And it was like, that's the best way you're gonna learn. And that's what we've tried to do with the folks on our team is to say, All right you're, training wheels are coming off early. And what's the worst thing that happens? You're not gonna be in the worst set of circumstances. So playing that through, I think, has really been beneficial in helping to build a cohesive and collaborative team.

Rachel Humphrey 25:24

I like the idea too of the buy in. If everybody around you knows what part they play in it and are part of the process, the more likely they are to want to contribute to it. One of the things we hear a lot, especially with women and some other underrepresented groups, is that they find difficulty in advocating for themselves in their own careers. As a manager of teams, people, whatnot and doing hiring. If someone on your team is interested in possibly learning more or learning something different or wanting a new role promotion, raise whatever it is. Do you have things that you look for when they approach you to talk about that?

Chirag Shah 26:01

Yeah that's been an interesting one. Because I remember when when I was in law school, we had a professor who part of his class completely unrelated to the subject matter. He took a day out and he said, okay, we're going to practice. What it's like for you to ask for a for a raise for a promotion. And he was a West Point guy and when folks started saying, oh, I've got, this family and this issue and that's why I want it, he would berate us and say, that is not what you do. You advocate for yourself because of your value to the organization, to the team. And it has absolutely nothing to do with your personal set of circumstances. And that has been a lesson that has stuck with me professor Henson and for a very long time. And I try to have those types of conversations with our team in a lot of circumstances. Okay, where do you want to be? And how do we build a path to get you there? Find the information. I'm, I'll be helpful, but I want you to do a lot of this yourself. Find the information whether it's devising a title in government affairs. It's it can be somewhat amorphous from time to time. It's not a very specific job all the time and say, okay yeah, Pretty much everybody that I've worked with and my own pathway to this has started off with one specific position, and it has evolved over a period of time, and I've tried to encourage that, at least I hope, with our team, and one of the greatest pieces of advice that I've gotten is, and that I try to share with my team is, I know that this is probably not going to be the last stop in your career. Whatever it is that I can do to help you to get there, I don't want you to leave the team, but at the same time, I want to be able to encourage that. And that I think has been extremely helpful in building those relationships as well, because people actually I didn't think about that. And there'll be a lot of folks that are former colleagues. I'm still very close to because we've been able to help get them to the next point in their careers.

Rachel Humphrey 27:42

I have learned that from you as well and probably from the same mentor that you were talking about. And I've always found that to be really important. It isn't that we don't want someone to stay as part of our team, but it's possible that their path may take them elsewhere, which is what's. And I love the comment about knowing your value and what you bring. That's, I think, such an important lesson and easy to get lost on. As I said at the start, I know we could talk forever. I want to ask you my favorite question to be asked and to ask of others, because I do think that we are all works in progress and we do and grow by reflecting a lot. So while I think in your head, you are still 21 year old drug. Tell me what would be your advice to your younger self as to either something you wish you knew then that might have made your path easier, different or something that you just wish you knew at that point.

Chirag Shah 28:34

People our age are always giving advice to younger folks, first of all, I would find my younger self and say, shave your head sooner. I started balding at 19 and I hung on for a long time. It looked awful. And definitely something I would have told myself at least five years sooner than I did. But beyond that it's something actually that Sage and I talk about a lot is enjoy the moment where you are and don't keep don't. Always be ambitious and keep an eye on where you want to be, but at least enjoy the journey while you're there. And I always have to find myself or remind myself to do that. And I would tell my younger self to do the same thing because that's really the crucible in which you learn. That's the the mistakes that you make. That's the lessons that you take away. But it's also the successes that you enjoy and that you can go back and look to. That will breed the next round of success and to enjoy those moments, whether it's professional and the the fights that you're in at least in the public policy space, what is it that that was successful in one area that you can carry over to the next or the personal world that you're thinking of, because you don't always go back and look at pictures and say, Oh man I wish I could go back to that time, but if you enjoy it in that moment, you're not gonna have any necessarily have any regrets. And enjoy that moment, I think is probably a great one.

Rachel Humphrey 29:43

I love that. Enjoying the moment. As we wrap up here today, Trug, is there one final piece of advice you want to offer to our listeners?

Chirag Shah 29:52

Yeah. It is government affairs. It's an election year. So I'll try to stay in the political world. Make new friends and seek out new friends that have diverse political views. Not necessarily just somebody who's in the opposite party, not just somebody that has they're wearing a different team hat than you're wearing, but somebody that may be apolitical, somebody that may not necessarily care about the same set of issues that you do, and have constructive conversations, be willing to poke holes in the arguments that your side necessarily has. Laugh at the absurdity. Every single politician says something crazy. There's something that, that you can laugh at or really be shocked by that your side does. And so make sure that you take time to take a step back, especially in an election year where things can get heated and really appreciate where the people are coming from. And then get involved politically. These are things for our industry that are absolutely critical. HLA has the platform Hotels Act, which is so important for folks in our industry to get out and really share their stories with their public officials. They're going to listen to us as an industry and really drive the legislative and policy agenda forward. And so I think it's absolutely critical to to really embrace the the role of advocacy, particularly in this election year.

Rachel Humphrey 31:07

So be curious and be engaged. I like it. Any of our listeners who thought that I was going to end today without sharing why I asked you to be on the show, which has become a trademark of mine of sorts will not be disappointed because I am going to share. You have been for me an incredible friend and colleague and strategic advisor and someone who has taught me the ropes from early on as I made the career pivot to be an association executive. What it means to build relationships, to understand the industry, to be a loyal and faithful team member and colleague, and I'm grateful for that, as well as watching how you fight for and advocate for the hospitality industry every single day, and we are all a better for it. So I am incredibly grateful for your time. I'm grateful that you joined me today. I know that we have run over. It's remarkable. I thought it would run on for about four hours, but I would say thank you to you before I do just anyone who's listening. I hope you've enjoyed my time with truck today. As much as I have, you can hear from nearly 200 other incredible industry leaders at DEI advisors. Dot org and we hope you will take a listen to some of those podcasts as well. But Chuck, thank you so much for joining me today.

Chirag Shah 32:26

Thank you, Rachel. Appreciate it.

Rachel Humphrey 32:27

Appreciate it.