Paula Twidale, Former Senior Vice President of Travel, AAA, interviewed by Dorothy Dowling

Paula is a strong believer in the value of research, preparation and understanding your partners needs when it comes to entering negotiations. The key to a successful negotiation is finding areas of common interest and agreeing on areas that establish a basis for a long-term partnership.  She believes strongly that business relationships have a lifetime value, and it is important to protect and nurture those relationships.

Transcript

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Dorothy Dowling 0:05

Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of D e I advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Paula Twidale s v p of Travel at aaa to our d e I show. Paula, welcome to our show. It is an honor to have you with us today.

Paula Twidale 0:23

Thank you so much for having me, Dorothy. I'm pleased to be here.

Dorothy Dowling 0:27

Wonderful. I think we'll get right to it. Paula, I know you've had an amazing career in our industry, and you have been a trailblazer for many women through your executive career at Colette and now at aaa. I'm wondering if you would mind sharing your career journey with us and the learnings you've had in advancing your career. Sure.

Paula Twidale 0:46

It's been quite an adventure because I always say that I stumbled into the travel business, right? So not only stumbled into it, then I loved it, so I couldn't get out. So I first started my career in the airline industry and I felt like I was a sponge because I tried to learn everything I possibly could. I started in the reservation center. I got a little bored with that. So decided to go to an airport and then I was out, like a crazy person out in the ramp. And I loaded bags, I worked in passenger services. I was flagging airplanes in, I was D up in buckets, deicing and oil servicing and doing all sorts of things. Ah, to be young, right? So we did all that as a young individual and then, it's a ch it was a challenge as a woman doing all these different things, but I did it and I was very young, so I had fun. In saying that, the Eastern Airlines is the airline I worked for. And it had 175 cities and ironically enough, there were only three females that, that, led those cities. The rest were all men. So you look at that and say, wow, that's a difference. And moving on from the airline industry, after spending 14 years there, I went into the tour operator industry and worked for Collette as you did state. And I was there for 27 years. Absolutely loved it. I was the first female executive there. Had great experiences, worked for a wonderful family. Who I still adore and, now I'm so fortunate. I'm the senior VP of travel at aaa, so I've had a rocket career. I don't look back. I feel like I'm blessed and had fun along the way.

Dorothy Dowling 2:15

Wonderful. And I do think the diversity of going through all of those pieces Paula really have empowered the kind of wisdom that you bring in your role to aaa. So they are indeed fortunate to have you in the role too. Thank you. So I'm wondering also if you could speak a little bit about career champions, because many of us have had the great benefit of having a few people in our corner as mentors and allies. So I'm wondering if you can share if there were folks like that in your career and how they did help

Paula Twidale 2:45

shape that career for you. Certainly, and it's ironic because a little, I certainly believe in mentors in a very big way. And, but I am also experiencing, by saying this to you, generations of differences. So back in my time, growing up in this industry and learning and but I still did have a mentor like a love hate relationship. A person who I work for who was. Really a tough person to work for. His, the name was Steve Davis, but I admired him so much because he ran the station at Boston's Logan International Airport, and I worked there in passenger service. But, he believed in me and he pushed me. I was very motivated. But in those days it was really hard because, I was the, a younger person there and a lot of people had a lot of seniority. But he said to me, I knew it was you that was doing the work and I was like, flabbergasted that he recognized. Cuz in those days a lot of people tried to take credit for what you brought to the table as you can appreciate. So when he became VP in New York he decided to announce to everyone that he was turning the Boston station over to me and I was. Clearly not a senior person at that time. I was flabbergasted, but it was a struggle. There was 1700 employees and three unions, and I worked through a strike. I worked through a bankruptcy and all sorts of operational headaches. And in doing that I never gave up. It made me re resilient and shape my future, but he was the catalyst for that and I never forgot it. And I said, in my own way I have to focus on, as I excel to be a mentor for other people and help people grow and get what they really deserve in life and be recognized. And he helped me

Dorothy Dowling 4:23

do that. It's, it's very interesting that you say that, Paula, because I would say that is a theme that I hear from many leaders is that sometimes they didn't recognize the strengths that they were bringing to the table themselves, but having that affirmation through someone else really allowed them to own. Their career in a very different dimension. But if I may, I would like to turn the tables now, because you have been an amazing champion of others. I've witnessed how you support many of your teammates and other women that are not actually. Directly reporting to you. And the things that I do admire about you, Paula, is that you put political capital on the table and you really support individuals with allyship, sponsorship, mentorship, all the things that people talk about today as being critically important to fueling individual success. So I'm just wondering if you would mind sharing with others because you're truly dedicated to supporting journeys for others leaders and why this is important to you.

Paula Twidale 5:23

It's really Dorothy. I look at it as a pay it forward mentality, right? As I said, I'm an avid believer in mentoring, so encouraging those stretch opportunities when you can, in the airline industry, when I was there, I appointed young shift managers and I worked. Side by side with them and they excelled. As a leader, regardless of your position, I never looked at position as authority and I was better than someone else. I would roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty and work the ticket counter or lines with them. And we all worked together. So we excelled together. We had accolades together, we had failures together. That's part of the mentoring process to kinda lead by example. And similar at Colette, I hired bright people and I always believed in. Teach them everything you know, and then let them take it to new heights because you hired bright people. It's not about you, it's about what you bring out in other people. So too often leaders are afraid of being replaced. They don't wanna hire good people. They don't wanna mentor cause they're so afraid of losing their own job or someone's gonna replace them. I never was. I, I just thrived on seeing my team soar and I, my team knows it. Even today, I say I wanna see other people shine. That's the terminology I use. So it's really paramount to invest time and energy into others, and it really builds a solid team. So that's my mentality and I. And you're right, some of the people, but in my career, whether it's airline or tour operation or now I try to give whatever I can to help mentor when I can and also reverse mentoring. I've learned so much from other people, of course I'm still am a sponge and I wanna keep learning and a lot of people teach me things that I don't know. So it's a good reciprocal

Dorothy Dowling 6:59

agreement. I think that commentary, and particularly what you just said about reverse mentorship is really important. Paula, and I would say even now, what a lot of the experts are saying, just in terms of shadowing teammates and partnering with them and doing the roles. Just what you spoke about there, it creates a level of connection of learning for you. And also for you to be able to observe them in such a frontline way. That is what all the people are speaking about today is what good leaders have to do. So I think you've been a remarkable example throughout your career. Thank you. So I'm wondering if we can also now move on to customer experience, because I think we both know that travel is it has many pieces of the travel supply chain that actually brings the travel experience to the customer. And I know in the roles that you've had to collaborate with many individuals to really bring forward that, that experience for the customer. And you have formed amazing partnerships with many of the individuals that you've worked with on the supply side and very strong business relations. So I'm wondering if there's any guidance that you can offer because everyone in the industry has the same challenges today. Yeah.

Paula Twidale 8:14

Ab absolutely. Dorothy it's a real, it's actually a really great question because collaboration is really the key to success and relationships are the most important component. You and I have had these discussions in the past and the years that we've known each other and the travel and hospitality. It's such a large industry yet. It's small because when it comes to your integrity, your credibility, and delivering what you promise it's, IM, it's important that you deliver and that you don't burn bridges. And you look at your partners and your suppliers, your relationships as really solid ones. And in business, we all know that, There's a lifetime value. The LTV that we talked about one time was in regarding to consumer acquisition and retention, but relationships also have an ltv. Those relationships, there's a long-term value to all relationships that you make, especially in our industry. So I built my. Personal, I call my personal brand in this industry. And everything that I do is reflective of that including the reasons why I chose to work for aaa. Frankly, their basic beliefs and trusted brand aligned well with my own. So I was like, I need to work for this company because I really felt as though I was in the airline industry tour operator, and I loved all the companies I worked for and with, but I did build a personal brand and, from the the different groups that we were, we align ourselves with that it was important me, for me to align myself with the company that also had a trusted brand that I felt aligned well with my

Dorothy Dowling 9:39

personal one. And I think those messages that you're offering in terms of fit and making sure that your values aren't going to be compromised with whatever ever, whatever person you choose to associate with, or whoever you choose to be, your boss and the brand that you invest time with from a. An employee perspective. Those are really important relations because you're making long-term investments in your career and understanding how it reflects on your personal brand, I think is a, is an important lesson for all individuals to recognize. Now, I'm also wondering if I can ask a follow on question, cuz I've always had great respect for you, Paula, because you do bring humanity to everything that you do. But I also know you're a pretty tough negotiator and you have often been in, in the role you have today and also the rails that you've had historically. You've been in a lot of high stakes negotiations and I just have great re respect. Back for you because I know you always bring so much preparation to everything you do, but I'm wondering if there's anything you can offer to individuals that are listening on how to really prepare for negotiations and how to make sure that you do the best to drive the best possible outcome.

Paula Twidale 10:55

Wow. First and foremost, it really depends on where you're negotiating, right? I've done negotiations in different countries as well as the United States. So you have to take on a role that makes sense for that culture. So that's key. But again, when we talked about relationships, so relationships matter here too. So we first and foremost need to be respectful to those you're negotiating with. I've conducted negotiation training at AAA Inc. As well as in the past at Colette. So the key really is planning planning. I can't state that enough. Planning upfront, in developing that contingency of what if this happens? What if that happens in advance? You need to actually play that out in your own mind and really ha be prepared. And it needs to be thought of in advance to, as far as countermeasures are concerned, contingencies and bottom line is you need to listen more than you speak. So when you finally get into that arena, you just need to listen and have that relationship and really try to understand the other party because you need to know if it's an organizational element behind it. If it's a power of legitimacy there, there's so many tactics in negotiation you can look at, but bottom line is if you research listen, learn, plan, practice, and be patient and understand what's really important to the other party, you will be more effective as a negotiator. So the goal is really to search for common interests with the other party and problem solving behavior and. Recognize that both parties must get their needs satisfied for the outcome to be entirely successful. It's never about something that's cutthroat or it's win, or even people say compromise. It's really about collaboration and understanding what the other party needs. So those are tips I can give it. It's starts with the relationship and planning is 90% of a negotiation and really making sure you're understanding what that other party wants and needs because you have to come out. With the common ground, because if you don't, you'll, you might, even if you are successful in getting what you need, you may just ruin a relationship and never have that opportunity to do business with that entity again. So we never want that, and that's my tip.

Dorothy Dowling 13:01

Yeah. And I do think you packed so much in that answer, Paula, that I don't know that I could even elaborate on it. But I do think those are extraordinarily wise tips for individuals to really listen and learn and make sure that they build out their playbook. And I, I think understanding and trying to anticipate what the other party's needs are is really critically important to getting the right outcome. Yeah. All right. I'd like to move on because you've also been such a high private profile person in the industry. Paula, I think we've all admired the kind of dedicated service that you brought forward, and you had a very long time and very significant role with us two. T o a, the United States Tour Operators Association. I'm just wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing with us about why volunteer service was important in shaping your leading your learning, and your contributions in terms of what you got out of leadership and what you were able to bring back to the industry.

Paula Twidale 14:04

Yeah, that's a great question. First of all, U S T O A, I'm very passionate about that organization. I still engage. I'm an honorary member, so I continue to be an active honorary member for 23 years, but better part of over 20 years actively being on the board. But, if you look at career-wise first to shape the. Thought process. I was an executive for most of my career and everything that I did, but I try to share diverse knowledge. I'm fortunate because I have a airline experience tour, operat experience agency sales experience, and that's very diverse in this industry. And it I'm able to share that knowledge very broad based. So being a part of U S T A, I learned from other people. I worked with other companies that were competitor companies at the time, but under, underneath that one umbrella, we were all friends and we really looked for the common good. For example, at U S T O a, volunteering extra time, putting airline committees together so we can speak with the airlines. I was on task force where we spoke in front of the D O T many times. With the caucus as well as independently with C E O. Terry Dale spoke in the state Department, were, our visits to the state department to focus on passports and visas, but also at the time, during a lot of warnings and actions were taken where there were levels of warning put out in the State Department. For example, they put a warning out the time on Europe and we went in, we said, It, these are unintended consequences. You're putting a warning in Europe and really it probably just applies to Paris. At the time when something was going on in Paris, I said, we're frightening everyone from going anywhere in Europe because that's, the continent. So there's unintended consequences to what you do. So having that dialogue was really important, but having the knowledge base, so I participated. They had 11 congressional caucuses where we lobbied on Capitol Hill. I spent my time 10 out of 11. Proud to say I would've been, I missed this year because I was in the UK with my family and I was really upset that I missed it. We contribute. Insight to, to media. We add value everywhere because really even the media and the general public consumers wanna hear from you. They trust you. They want knowledge. So the fact that I have a broad based knowledge in this industry, I'm just about sharing that knowledge. And I hope to continue to share my vision and continue to be a change agent through that. So that's why I do it because inevitably consumers, no matter where they are, when they're traveling and they hear whether I'm in the media or I'm, on the hill it's about. Getting information so that they enough information to make informed decisions. Ultimately they're making their own decisions, but they're counting on us as trusted brands and our legacy knowledge to be able to make informed decisions. So that's why we do it and I'm gonna continue. As long as I'm able to get up and walk and speak and do what I need to do, whether I'm at this company or any others, I will continue to do that. Cuz I really enjoy it and I think it really

Dorothy Dowling 16:51

matters. And I think you spoke to a couple very important points there, Paula. One is to just reinforce the interdependency of our industry and the nature of the need to collaborate. But I also think you spoke to being a business leader. I. It means that you have to be accountable in a much broader way than just to your individual company. And you have to be a leader and a voice a positive voice to helping create change and understanding. Thank you for sharing that because again, I think that's really important for people to understand in their career development that there's other pieces that they have to be responsible for in shaping their career. So I'd like to move on to communications. Because Paula I think, I have been an admirer of yours for a very long time. I've watched you when you've been on major media outlets, and I've also watched you on stage at many different events, and you are an incredibly. Poised, confident and informed speaker. You speak with authority, but you always bring this personal warmth that engages with the audience. So I'm just wondering again, if there's anything that you can share with the audience about how you have really honed your communication skills over the years, and any tips that you might share with them.

Paula Twidale 18:08

First I think it's about taking a deep breath and saying, continue to be me. Continue to be yourself. One of the major things that I would communicate to others is say, be your authentic self. There's nothing better than that. You are who you are. Don't try to be someone that you're not in. That authenticity will come out for those who know me personally. They will see the same person at my house or on TV or in a, on a trade show or on Capitol Hill. They're gonna see. See, I am consistently who I am and that's what I try to bring out. I and I actually joked in one media interview about a week or so ago, and I said, oh, good luck with that. And the two people on tv, they went, oh. And they laugh and said it's tongue in cheek cuz they're asking for something and sometimes is an un unrealistic question. But I always try to make a joke out of it and make somebody laugh and that authenticity has to come through. The media values that because they respect that you're being true to yourself and they have more of an opportunity to trust what you're telling them. So my preparation really consists of keeping current know the facts. I don't make things up. If I don't know something I'll say I'm not really, I really can't elaborate on that. I'm honest about it. I don't try to make things up. I have a lot of knowledge, like I said, because I have diverse industry experience for, four decades. So know the facts and the messaging needs to be relevant and it needs to be encouraging even in bad times when we're talking about chaos and airlines and different things. You still need to encourage people to say, Hey, they're making efforts to do X, or, here are some of the tips that you can do to offset that. Take an earlier flight, do this, give them some tips that they can overcome adversity or prevent something from happening. So it's preventative measures and I try to take all those things into consideration in my preparation so that when they're asking me questions, I can answer honestly and with authority and hopefully add value to the messaging. That's my only tip I can give you.

Dorothy Dowling 20:06

But I do think that the most important thing that you said, Paula, was bringing your authentic self to the table. And that's probably why your warmth shines through in all the situations that I've had the privilege of seeing. But I do think that allows for that human connection so that you become so much more relatable. And I think when you're relatable people wanna hear from you. Anyways, thank you for being so open to sharing how you prepare and how you bring yourself to every situation. Sure. So I'd like to move on a little bit and talk about imposter syndrome, which is something that is often spoken about particularly with women and I personally love Amy Cuddy, and I love that she has changed the expression to. Fake it until you become it. And you are a very accomplished woman executive, but I am sure that you sometimes have fears that you have to quell in your own mind when you're entering challenging situations or you're confronted with challenging situations. Do you have any tips that you would share with the audience when you hear that voice?

Paula Twidale 21:10

I think everybody has gone through it at some point in their life. And I can probably give you two examples of years back in my career and then even as a child or something more recent. But, I've heard that in inner voice. Because in the, in, back in the days when I first started my career in leadership people tried to suppress you as a woman. They, but in the end, my tenacity went out, I was Stubborn about it. So I would hear the inner voice and be a little bit insecure about it, but knew that I had the ability to make a difference. So no matter how hard they try to hold me back I would, or take credit for work. I didn't tolerate it. I called them out on it, and as a child, as an adult, my mother would still say to me, she's passed on now. But she would say, she'd roll her eyes and say you haven't changed, and. She would say as a child, you'd be by my side. But you'd always say, mommy. I do. I do. Cuz I always was so independent. So I guess my mom should take credit for encouraging me to fly. Bless her. She, she encouraged me to do Excel. So it gave, that gave me the added confidence when I did have that insecurity and that I could even give you another example that. When in, in later years I went through some, a number of Harvard executive programs, so I was at Harvard Business School and felt intimidated that I perhaps didn't belong there. And it, I really had no reason to feel intimidated cuz I, I academically I was a scholar and, went to college on scholarships. But I still felt oh, I'm in this room with all these people from all the, all over the world, Saudi Arabia different heads of organizations. What am I doing there? And then till, we had a lot of interaction and I'll just summarize by saying I was walking out and I. I Dr. David Upton was the professor there and he, and we were talking about something and he looked at me and he said, you belong here. So I was like, flabbergasted when he told me that. And I didn't ask him for that, but he really validated my reasoning for being there, and at those words stuck with me. And it gave me the belief and the confidence that if I put my mind to it, I can do it. I'm not gonna do everything and I'm gonna fail, but I'm gonna fail and I'm gonna keep trying. Yes, I think we all hear this, but. Have the confidence to to try to fail, to get back up and in personal life, there's a lot of things that you'll encounter that are worse than that. Keep moving

Dorothy Dowling 23:13

forward. And I think those are great tips. Paul I always find it interesting that some people think the women that have made it never had those crisis of confidence anywhere in their career. And I think we all have. Yes. So I think just hearing it is affirming. And I also think it's amazing that a professor would go out of his way to affirm your presence in the way that he did, which is, I guess another tip for us as leaders. To do that kind of affirmation for others, right? Cuz it does it, it is meaningful. So the other thing that I would love to hear you speak about Paula, is really your commitment to a growth mindset. I know you referenced it earlier in terms of how you always wanna learn, Carol Dweck, who I know we both admire, talks about how brains and talents are really just a starting point for all leaders. So I'm just wondering if you can share with us about your commitment to continuing to learn and grow and how this commitment has really powered your career success.

Paula Twidale 24:14

Yeah. And I said it earlier by saying, I, I continue to be a sponge. So you have to, that's how I learned and how I started in my career. And you never stop learning. We don't, the expression, we don't know what we don't know. So if we think we know everything and we're arrogant about that, we'll never progress to be anything better than what we are today. So we can all benefit by learning. So we need to continue to learn and change. And evolve because evolution is part of it. Stagnation is a killer. In this day and age, because I'm in the older generation now, learn from younger people, there's so much to learn from young people. They don't know what you know, because you have that legacy experience, but you know what, you don't know what they know coming in. So this such a reciprocal nature to learning and being having a growth mindset. So interact with those. Folks from other business lines, other companies and the expression is open minds will open doors. So you can chart your own new course. And if you keep an open mind about everything and you just decide to integrate and you talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, it's all part of it. It's. Don't be in your own little silo. Get out of that and go and explore. And by learning from other people, you, your eyes will be open and you'll be better for it. And I, that's how I feel. I'm always amazed at the little things that I learned. I go, oh wow, I didn't know that. That's cool. So just be open-minded.

Dorothy Dowling 25:28

And I think that is, is such a an honest way to express it because it is always been curious and willing to hear from others and recognize that many people bring things to the table that just have different experiences that we have. Thank you for sharing that. The next year I'd really to ask is about risk taking, cuz you've obviously taken a lot of risks in your career. Paula, you've made some big moves. You obviously talked about when you got to be in charge of Logan, which is an incredibly busy airport. But I'm just wondering how you've approached taking those risks in your career and how, going through some of that risk taking really shaped. Shaped your career and shaped you as a person.

Paula Twidale 26:08

It's a bit ironic in the question in itself because I am really not a big risk taker per se. I'm more of a methodical planner. However, as you stated, I took a big risk leaving a company that I loved. Moving away from a home that was my life and an area of the, the country that I always lived in. And I moved to Florida and I joined aaa. And I, and funny enough, I don't regret it for a second, but I'm so not a risk taker, but risk. Risk needs to be measured. And the unintended consequences should be considered upfront. And I really did do that cause I said family's so important to me. I need to do this and I wanna do some other things in life. And there was an opportunity for me and I could still do what I loved. So it was a little scary, and I, and that's all I can say. It. It's uncomfortable. Risk is uncomfortable. Some people are better risk takers than others. And certainly I'm, like I said, I'm not the big risk taker, but that was a personal risk that I did take and I felt as though it was time to do it. And I'm not looking back.

Dorothy Dowling 27:09

But I think that the wording that you've used about taking measured risks, Paula also ties back to your approach on negotiation. It's it's really just having a very thoughtful approach to the decision. And obviously you do have to take a few bets and step outside of your comfort zone, but that's something that has been a consistent theme about your approach to learning and everything else that you're prepared to be uncomfortable if you think that there is gonna be a good outcome for you. So thank you for this. We're coming near the end of the interview, but. I would like to ask about the question about work-life harmony, because travel executives do a fair share of travel in their career. They spend a lot of time away from family and friends and you have done more than your fair share of that because of some of the rules that you've had. So I would just like to know how. If there are ways that you can share with the audience how you balance some of those elements of your life in terms of making sure you took care of your own personal wellbeing, your family's wellbeing, and you still were able to achieve the kind of outcomes that you wanted to see in your work.

Paula Twidale 28:14

First of all, recognize that you're not invincible, right? And family, to me is the most important. And especially as I age, I feel stronger about it. Make time to enjoy life. Travel feeds the soul, so I'm gonna continue to travel. But take the time to do what you need to do for respite and regeneration. It's easier said than done. I think we've all made those mistakes young in our career. And as we get older, we start to value life differently. Certainly I can speak for myself there and work hard, play hard as my dear friend Dan Sullivan always said. And if he sees this interview, he is gonna laugh out loud. And he always says, work hard, play hard. In all those years I used to roll my eyes, but now I'm like, he's right. You need to work hard, but you need to play hard. You need to make the time to have that balance. And it's easier said than done but do it cuz you need

Dorothy Dowling 29:01

to do it. Yeah. And I do think it, it comes back to intentionality and really again, having a planned approach to making sure that you do set aside the right time for all the parts of life that we need to pay attention to. So we're coming up to the near, near the end of the interview, Paula, and, we always ask every d e I advisor. About any final advice because d e i advisors, the foundation is really about empowering personal success. So I'm wondering if there's any final thoughts that you'd like to share with our audience today.

Paula Twidale 29:35

I think simply said, because I'm all about travel. I'll say keep traveling first and foremost. But most importantly, make a difference in the lives of others no matter what you do. That's my mantra. I am at all about that. Whether it's my family, my friends business. As long as I can keep making a difference in the lives of others I'm gonna be fulfilled. I'm never gonna look back and say, what if? Keep traveling, make. A difference in the life as of others. That's my parting words

Dorothy Dowling 30:03

for you. Those are very powerful ones, Paula. So I thank you. And I do think that if we pay forward, like you said, and continue to elevate others the way you do, We can make big differences in others' lives. So thank you for all that you do for the industry. Thank you for all that you do for women as being such a remarkable role model for all of us. And I just thank you for your friendship and support over the years. If I may, I'd like to also thank the audience that has been listening and viewing. Our interview today, and I hope if you've enjoyed this interview, that you'll please come visit us on our website, dei advisors.org, where you'll see webcasts. You'll have Paul cast similar to all of the wisdom that Paula has shared with us today that continue to empower c career and fuel our knowledge. So again, Paula, thank you so much for taking time outta your busy schedule to be with us, and thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. It's greatly appreciated. Thank

Paula Twidale 30:58

you, Dorothy. It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.