Carla Murray, Former President, U.S. Western Region, Full Service MxM, Marriott Int'l, interviewed by Lan Elliott

Carla shares the turning point in her career, and how her champions have encouraged her to take calculated risks.  She explains what she learned in the course of two company mergers, how she prepares for speaking roles - and what it takes to truly improve one’s public speaking skills.  Carla discusses how her personal board of directors helped her see the career path she should be taking, and she describes what she looks for her in her leaders and in the people she champions.

Transcript

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Lan Elliott 0:02

Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliott on behalf of D e I advisors, and today's guest advisor is Carla Murray, the president of the US Western Region for full service managed by Marriott Hotels. Welcome, Carla.

Carla Murray 0:17

Thank you so much, Lan. It's great to be

Lan Elliott 0:19

with you today. It's great to be with you and I'll share with the folks at home a little bit about how we met later, but I did wanna jump right into your amazing career. One of the things that the two of us have shared is we've come up in the hospitality industry and areas that are generally do dominated by male leaders, me and real estate and you and operations. And you've really thrived in your career and. Inspired a number of people that I've talked to who recommended that I interview you. Could you share some of the inflection points in your career and perhaps if there was any particular factor or factors that contributed to your success?

Carla Murray 1:01

Yes. I think probably the. Biggest inflection point for me was moving from being a general manager of the Sheridan, Seattle in Seattle, Washington, to being a regional leader when I was with Starwood hotels and resorts. And that was a, an opportunity for me that I didn't seek, but I was highly encouraged to take. And at the time I had a two year old son and I was very concerned about the travel as well as, What I didn't know at the time, and I have to say that both my mentors of which I had informal and formal mentors at that time they were really the impetus for me to take that step forward and to move into a multi-property leadership. And if I had not had that encouragement or belief. Sometimes the belief that you can do this even though you may not think you can. And at the time our C O had called me and he said to me, Carla, you won't really have to travel that much. And I saw him five years later and I said, Bob his name was Bob Co. I said, that was a lie. You he said, I know, but if I told you the full truth, you might not have really taken the job. So it was such a collaborative. Effort amongst many of my mentors that came to me independently and encouraged me to do it. And to me it changed my life. It set me on a career path that has brought me to where I am today and would not otherwise have happened if left just to me.

Lan Elliott 2:39

Yeah, that's a wonderful story and it brings up some themes that I actually wanted to dig in a little bit because one of the things we've talked about is taking risks and this idea that when you do things that are new to you, you get sometimes imposter syndrome. And I used to think it was something that only happened when you were really young. That's when I was experiencing it. But what we've discovered, and I've discovered during the course of doing these interviews, it never actually goes away. As long as you're challenging yourself and trying something new, taking risks, it comes back at each time. So could you share a little bit more about taking risks and imposter syndrome and how you overcome it when you experience it?

Carla Murray 3:22

I think that my most recent example of feeling that way was when Starwood was being purchased by Marriott and I was debating, am I interested in opportunities in Marriott. I was having really great conversations, but I thought, wow, I'm going to. Now go again for a second time. This had happened to me earlier in my career when Starwood bought i t Sheraton and all of your champions, your mentors, maybe if they were in the company the champions that are in the room may not be there anymore and they may not be able to have your back and or give you honest feedback. And so I think about that time, which now it's hard to believe it was almost. Seven years ago, and that it is one of those periods where I was extremely fortunate that I had these very robust conversations with Marriott. But more importantly, there were some of those outside. Influences who maybe I wouldn't even have labeled as a champion or a mentor, but without those individuals at the table who were leaving and may not have stayed with Marriott. There were owners that came to Marriott and they told my story for me, and that was really, and something I found out later, I had no idea that I had the support that I did because I. When you are trying to move into another company, establish your credibility, demonstrate your talents. It does require others who believe in you. And those individuals who were from the outside who were helping me overcome my imposter syndrome were extremely beneficial. To me as I made that transition into Marriott and started developing my my new group of leaders and or those who felt that I had something to contribute.

Lan Elliott 5:17

Yeah. And I wanted to dig into a little bit the transitions that you had mentioned, because all of those involve taking risks and you've been asked to take on different roles, bigger roles. How do you decide when it makes sense to take a risk?

Carla Murray 5:36

I always call it the calculated risk. I'm sure other people label it that as well, but I did my research I too ask about leaders and asked about their track records and what were their strengths and weaknesses. Would I fit? I wanted to make sure that my skillset and the culture that I had tried to build at Starwood would fit at Marriott. And so I had many conversations with individuals inside of Marriott, with individuals out outside that had worked with Marriott. And that was how I made my calculated risk of whether this was a good opportunity for me when this happened to me in At the time of Starwood's purchase of I t Sheraton, I was a young leader. I did not know a lot of people at Starwood. It was a very new situation for me, and that was a period of tough learning. I learned a lot about what I carried through to this Marriott transition from the Starwood of some of the mistakes I made, and some of the things that I would've had as a do-over, and that was really do more research than. I had done when I was moving over to Starwood and e I would've still made the same decision, but I might have had a different mindset about it at the time.

Lan Elliott 6:55

That's such a great thing to do is to leverage your network to ask questions, to find out about who you're going to be working with. Finding out about the company culture, cuz Merritt and Starwood, very different cultures, very different and I have to imagine I T and Sheraton was also a big transition in terms of culture. So

Carla Murray 7:13

I love that. Very different, especially at. At a pivotal time of my leadership and when I was trying to move into being a a general manager in luxury the transition happened at the same time that I was moving to be the GM of the St. Regis in Aspen, Colorado. And that was a, a. A building time for me, and it was a building time for Starwood to understand what were they going to do with these brands that they hadn't had before. And St. Regis was one of the, one of those brands

Lan Elliott 7:46

Amazing story. It must have been an amazing experience. I can only imagine

Carla Murray 7:50

it was getting a master's degree without doing the work. That's right. Curriculum, but doing the work in real life.

Lan Elliott 7:58

That's right. Master's degree in real life. In real life. I wanted to talk a little bit about public speaking because I know you present very often to groups. Can you share a bit about the. How important the skill of public speaking is to elevating one's career and how you develop the skills and maybe how you choose which topics you're gonna speak on and how you prepare to feel confident about it.

Carla Murray 8:22

I think there's two places that you find yourself in the need of public speaking skills. And that's the internal in the company where you might be Responsible for influencing others to a specific topic or a decision that needs to be made, as well as the external presentation. I'm typically doing presentations that are to our, what I call the friendlies of the hospitality industry. And if I am speaking externally, that would typically be about. Service and or leadership and or volunteerism. Those would be the topics that I might speak of externally. And when I think about preparing for either one of those opportunities, even if it's just at a boardroom table or if it's in front of 500 people it is all in the preparation and in the practice that you might find that is required. And what are those little Cues that help you? I pull all those into my repertoire, whether it's a, four by six card that I just might hold in my hand as a security blanket. Or it might be notes in a notebook. That is something that I might just want to reference once in a while if I'm just sitting at the table. But it is really about practice and preparation of. What it is you want to communicate and not to overcomplicate it. I think too many times people have too many messages that they're trying to get across, and I always believe in the power of three, there's three things I want to pe leave people with and make sure that at the end you're providing them a summary of what those three things are. I, I. Practice it all the time. In my head this morning at 4:00 AM I was thinking now, how do I wanna answer that question that Lon has presented to me? And I was running through it in my head. And so sometimes it's out loud, sometimes it's in my head, and sometimes it's just doing it.

Lan Elliott 10:24

That's fantastic. Do you think it's something that's really important in people's careers? I know. I looked at joining Toastmasters about 25 years ago and I thought, I am. I know my material, I know my subject, I'll be fine. But I also think having that executive presence and being able to speak without filler words, the ums and ahs, all of that would've helped me. What's your thought on getting confident in public speaking early on in your career?

Carla Murray 10:53

I think it's extremely important because I think we find ourselves with crutches, whether it's word crutches or mannerisms, that if you saw yourself on camera or you listened to a recording of yourself, you might not. Think that you said, 15 times or that you went 20 times, and until you get into an opportunity in a safe environment where you can practice that it may not become clear to you the effectiveness that practice and or recording and or having others give you. Really honest feedback how important that becomes. So it is something that I had a journalism degree. When I was graduating from college. I was an accidental hotelier and I cringed when I used to see myself on camera and. I couldn't believe growing up in the South, I had a horrible southern accent, which I still have a bit. And I thought I have to rid myself of, you have your things that you need to work on to perfect how you come across to others. And for me it was, how can I continue to not sound like I have this very thick accent that others might react negatively to.

Lan Elliott 12:10

Yes I think as you mentioned, not wanting to see yourself on camera is a very common phobia, but there's nothing quite like watching yourself speaking to very quickly identify the issues you need to work on. Very difficult,

Carla Murray 12:25

but Absolutely. So if individuals have that opportunity, I highly encourage them, whether it's Toastmasters or. Other avenues just to have someone record you on your phone and then to be able to replay it in three minute snippets. You will see immediately the things that you want

Lan Elliott 12:44

to work on. Wonderful advice. I, it took me 10 seconds to realize some of the things I was doing, the harsh reality of seeing yourself on film. Let's switch a little bit over to support systems and a personal board of directors, because one of the things that has been discussed in these interviews is having a personal board of directors that AC acts as your personal support system. How do you identify who you include on your personal board of directors and what types of things do you rely on them for?

Carla Murray 13:17

I think there's maybe three things that I look to my board of directors for and I want to. I want to trust them. I want to feel that they are an expert in their field, that they have an expertise that is is critical and I wanna feel like they're going to be honest with me about what I might be asking them to advise me on. And And it's changed over the years. There was, there were individuals that I had worked for that were incredible advisors, especially as I was making a transition from being a sales leader to an operations leader. And sometimes it was harsh advice. Like you just need to do. This was the advice that some of my board members gave me, and I wasn't necessarily seeing that path for myself, but I'm so glad that I listened to it. So it was critical that there was this a ability to communicate and that I felt I was in a safe environment where I could go to them with any issue. And it's just amazing that I've had advisors or champions, I would say maybe not. Then. Pure mentor, but a champion who might have been an owner that I dealt with or might have been an asset manager from outside of the company I was working for, who would say to me when I was getting ready to make a huge move, moving from sales to operations or from. Single property leadership into multi-property leadership, and they would offer to advise me, if you find you're in an uncomfortable situation talking about a hotel acquisition or a performer I remember a gentleman who's been a mentor to me for over 30 years and he said, please call me. I will always be available to give you advice. And I have also had a Female leader who was a peer of mine at Starwood who made those same offers to me, and they're so important and so valuable. I, I. I think you and I have spoken about the difference between mentors and champions and those champions in the room behind you are so important that they say the three to four words when a talent review is going on, that they believe in you or that she has potential. What are the three to four words that they say that is so very powerful? And those champions are not necessarily people. You chose yourself. So you want to make sure that you have that group of supporters as well as those formal mentors that you may seek advice from on a regular basis.

Lan Elliott 16:02

Absolutely. And you had a perfect segue into the next topic that I wanted to talk about, which is sponsors and champ or champions. And as distinct from mentors, which I think a lot of people know, mentors are people who will give you advice. But a sponsor or a champion is someone who's going to have influence. It might be someone more senior in your company, or as you mentioned, an owner, someone who has influence from outside the company, but they're the ones that use their political capital to speak up on your behalf. And that is, Is quite a different role than a mentor would have, and they might be one and the same person. But having people who are willing to speak up when you're not in the room is so very important. As you mentioned, and it's wonderful that you've had these, you've developed these relationships that became, Sponsor champion relationships, and it doesn't always happen between owners and operators, and it is a testament to the great job that you're doing that your owners really wanted to support you. You've also mentored a number of people and championed them too, by the way, including Tiffany Cooper, who I've interviewed recently and introduced the two of us. How do you determine who you're going to take on either to mentor or to champion, and so that, how does someone find a sponsor or a champion?

Carla Murray 17:28

I'll start with what am I looking for? And I'm looking for, An individual that I believe in, an individual that inspires me, that I want to see continue to progress in their career. I like to think about leaders that inspire me as servant leaders. They're there. They're such a critical piece to so many people's career. Their progression, their ability to fulfill their dreams and take care of their families, at the basic need. And so I am looking for those leaders that I feel that. Have tra, have potential to add value to others' lives and to be able to, I think if you're able to do that, you're able to run the business that you're able to influence and motivate and inspire teams and teams of people. That, to me, is I want them to be. Mentoring me as well because it's a two-way street. You get inspiration and there's things that you can take to others. So it's not just one way where I'm sponsoring or championing someone and they're not necessarily having an opportunity to have another dialogue with me. I see it as a two-way opportunity and one that I find so energizing and I'm so passionate about, and people like Tiffany Cooper, they're easy to champion and sponsor.

Lan Elliott 18:57

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love the idea of it being a two-way street. We've talked about this idea of a mentor where you can be a mentor, but also an intern. I think Chip Conley came up with that. Oh, perfect. With that terminology and this idea of being able to learn things from younger people as well. But in terms of the things you share with your mentees or the people you champion, are there a few, one or two key things that you often want them to know, that you often find you need to make sure they're aware of?

Carla Murray 19:31

I. I guess this concept of risks. If many times people are wanting to talk with you, if you know your mentee to get a sense of what should I do next? And I really encourage folks about that calculated risk. And what is it that, that they have a great passion about? And there are times where. Individuals will study that and say, I may not have that passion. I may not have that ability today, but I might have that ability in the future. So it's really a about taking those calculated risks and I. I I also laugh, but I'm serious when I say to folks, take the job that no one else wants too to advance your career, because I feel that there were some of the hardest jobs I had, but the ones with the biggest payoffs were the jobs that nobody else wanted to do. And I remember I took one such job and my, my leader at the time, he said to me, Murray, Everybody who takes that job gets fired. And so I went into the job, I eyes wide open, but I found that it turned out to be one of the best training opportunities I had ever experienced. So I do share that with individuals that asked me about what, about taking this job or that job? And I say, Hey, take the job no one else wants. You will prove your worth at that

Lan Elliott 20:59

chance. That's wonderful advice. Wanted to switch gears a little bit to a challenge that women leaders sometimes find, which is this idea of an assertiveness double bind, and which is the concept is that you either have to choose to be nice or to be competent, and it's this idea that you can't be both. If you're too nice, you're probably not strong enough to have the hard conversations, and if you are too hard charging and competent. Yeah, ambitious, assertive, those aren't adjectives that are used kindly about women. And so there needs to be a balance that gets struck. And in your role, you have a lot of difficult conversations, obviously, with owners from time to time and with employees. How do you balance that? How do you manage it in a way to develop relationships?

Carla Murray 21:59

I start first with ensuring that. The expectations are set. And we agree on the expectations. Are we aligned on what the job is, whether it's the next month, the next quarter, the next year. And because many times that miscommunication or misunderstanding is because individuals weren't aligned in the beginning about what their partnership represented and whether it's an employee leader, I. Relationship or it's an owner, a management company relationship. You wanna make sure that everyone is aligned about the direction that we're all proceeding. And I If it's a leader that I'm working with that is reporting to me, I tend to let them do their job. I don't want to be the micromanager and feel that I have an incredibly talented team at Marriott and as well as before at Starwood and allowing individuals to do their job without interference. But sometimes there may be a need for guidance back to what the alignment was in the beginning. I find that. That's how I have struck a balance, at least from my perspective. You might ask my team if they believe that or agree with that, but I have I have found that alignment first and then allowing people to pursue the job in the way that they feel is necessary with just a little maybe guidance I believe in, in, wide boulevards and hide guardrails. So to speak and that has seemed to work for me.

Lan Elliott 23:40

I love the combination of setting expectations together at the outset, but then also letting people do their thing not micromanaging them. I think that's such a great way to do it. And you had mentioned some of your leaders that report to you. One of the things we think about sometimes when we think of leaders is this, Idea of leaders being ambitious and assertive, which as we discussed as more male characteristics. I know that half of the leaders on your team are actually women. And I know that's quite prevalent. A number of Marriott team have a lot of women on the team. Including, I think Tony's direct reports, at the very highest levels are half women. But what characteristics do you look for in, in your leaders?

Carla Murray 24:32

I mentioned servant leader before, and I come back to that because I think that to me, the characteristics of a servant leader and what you're there to do is very important to me, and it is about the empathy that you bring to the job. It is about your ability to serve others. As a leader and to be an example and to inspire and to motivate those members of your team are what makes me tick. I love to see leaders that are able to do that and to have a sense of optimism about the future. It's not that you don't. Want to have a devil's advocate because certainly devil's advocacy can show the blind spots on your team. And that can demonstrate expertise. But the ability to continue to create optimism for yourself about your job, your worth, what you're doing for the future, you bring that intention to the team, and that makes the team a more powerful team. So I think it really comes down to that. Servant leader, the empathy that you bring to the job, your sense of optimism and your ability to put it all together. And individuals want to work with you and for you. Those are

Lan Elliott 25:49

great qualities. I really love that. One of our favorite questions on D e I advisors is what advice would you give to your younger self? And I think one of these, it's one of these questions that requires a bit of self-reflection, and we've also found that it changes over the course of your career, the advice you would give to your younger self. But at this point, Carla, what advice would you give to your, let's say, 22 year old

Carla Murray 26:17

self? At 22, I was very confident that I could do it all. That I was going to be able to be a successful business person. I was going to be able to have a a personal life, have a family. And I would now say to my 22 year old self that you can have it all. You just may not have it all at the same time that you are expecting to do it. But to. To ensure that you give yourself the space to enjoy all of those different phases of your life and to not be so caught up in the progression, but to experience what the progression means and how it is changing your life over time. So it was really about that, that you can have it all. I just might not have it all in my twenties.

Lan Elliott 27:12

That is wonderful advice, and we have heard that. I think it's really hard. You do have to shift gears as you go through your career and different things become a priority, but you've managed to continue to progress even though you've managed those other parts of your life. Yeah, it

Carla Murray 27:28

was a lot of fun. And that's critical. Having fun is a lot of, is very important.

Lan Elliott 27:35

Absolutely. Absolutely. Loving what you do is a big part of it. So as I suspected, we are getting to the end of our time and I would've. To ask you many more questions, but we have time for one more question, and keeping in mind that the mission of d e I advisors is around empowering personal success, do you have one final additional nugget of advice for women and underrepresented groups that are looking to advance their careers?

Carla Murray 28:05

I'm gonna come back to my first one is about the risk. Make sure that you are recognizing it, calculating it, and take it maybe a small risk in just the way you approach your daily job. Or it may be a much bigger risk and that you're going to move across country and do a completely different job. The other thing, I have three more, so I just want to I'm gonna break my rule of three and I'm gonna go to four. One is about risk, one is about. Getting the most education that you possibly can and as a formal education. And once that's finished, never stop learning. I am an avid reader and it is it gives me a great deal of pleasure, but also always stimulates my mind about ideas That what, even if I've read it in a novel, I can bring it back to something that I'm doing at work that. I find some inspiration in focus on your health and your, especially your sleep. I know people laugh at that sometimes, but as you go through your career and if you're in the hotel business, you're sleeping maybe in a different bed every night or every week, and it becomes more and more important. To your health about how you care for yourself and your wellbeing. And the last one is about wear comfortable shoes. I I think that we sometimes we. We opt for our vanities versus our practical application of what we put on our feet. And and many of my friends will laugh when they hear this, but I do think there will be times when you've gone 20,000 steps in touring hotels and you would've wished you had on uncomfortable shoes.

Lan Elliott 29:53

I love that last part. Yes. Walking Hotels does require you to have a few sets of comfortable shoes, I would imagine. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much Carla. I really appreciate your being on the show and such great advice. I love the advice on taking risks, which you've mentioned a few times, and also the sponsorship and. Of others, which is how we came to be introduced to one another. How you look out for other people and pay it forward in the way that your sponsors have looked out for you in the past. And so I think that's just incredibly inspiring and I thank you for being on our show.

Carla Murray 30:35

Thank you. I've been extremely lucky. And this is just another one of those examples, so it was a pleasure. Thanks

Lan Elliott 30:42

Carla, and for our audience, if you'd like to check out other great interviews with hospitality industry leaders, I hope that you will go to our website, which is d ei advisors.org to look for more interviews. Thank you. Thanks, Carla. Thank you.