David Mansbach, Managing Partner, Global Hospitality & Leisure, DHR Global interviewed by Lan Elliott

Dave shares the importance for both career and joy to collide.  An accomplished Executive Recruiter, he discusses the Top 2 Tips for negotiating an offer letter, which most people rarely do, and 3 Traits that make current candidates stand out, which differ from the past.  He also explains why everyone in hospitality has an obligation to make our industry the Employer of Choice, which it currently is not.

Transcript

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Lan Elliott 0:00

Welcome to its Personal Stories, a hospitality podcast. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of its personal stories, and today I'm really pleased to have David Sba with us, the Managing Partner, global Hospitality and Leisure for DHR Global. Welcome, David.

David Mansbach 0:19

Hi, great to be here with you, LAN.

Lan Elliott 0:21

Wonderful to have you here, and I've had the pleasure to know you for many years. I almost feel like we've come up in the industry together over, I won't say how many years, but I'm wondering if you could share some of the inflection points of your successful career. 'cause it's been incredible, but it would be great to understand what were some of the pivot points that were really instrumental and if there's a factor or factors that you. Think were key to your success.

David Mansbach 0:53

Great. Yeah, I'll walk you through it and hit some inflection points. Counting degree. Graduated in 1991. Looking for the job for a job in New York City. Had no clue. And by pure luck, and again you'll see the theme here. It's all mentorship, great advice and luck. Secured my first job in accounting. It just happened to be in a hotel. That hotel happened to be one of the best hotels in the country, in the world, being the Plaza Hotel in New York. So showed up my first day after interviewing with the CFO of the hotel, Patrick O'Malley. I was in 1991, I'll never forget it, and did my thing. Four weeks in, he came over to me, put his hand on my back. He said, Dave, you look miserable. I'm like, what do you mean I'm just doing my thing? He goes you are not the guy I interviewed you. You're quiet, you look unhappy. And he's what's going on? And I'm stumbling. I don't know, I just, I'm in my first job in my first month. He said, what do you wanna do? And I said, I wanna do what those people are doing. And I pointed to the other side of the office. There were 15 people in sales and marketing and conference services. And they're talking this running around the hotel and. He goes, come with me. And he introduced me to Tom Ano, who actually still is in the business, and is my first mentor. And that ties into the first inflection point about three years into an incredible eight year journey there. I literally can write a book on the experiences, being customer facing dealing with. Every celebrity, every dignitary. It was just such a cool place. And three years in, I remember the numbers. I was making $22,000 a year. I'm dating myself here and I got a job offer for $26,000 a year. That's big numbers. Big numbers. So I went into Tom and I said, Tom, listen I'm gonna move on. I no thought, didn't call anybody, had no clue. Just went in and he goes, sit down. So I sit down, he goes, two things. He goes, you're not going anywhere and I'm gonna give you the money you need to stay here. Okay? He goes, but this is the last time you're gonna do this. He goes, I'm here for you to give you career advice. He goes, you're not gonna be here forever. But when the time's right, we're gonna make this decision together. And I said, okay. I said, oh my God, I'm able to stay here, continue to do what I'm doing, which I loved. And had another five years there. Funny enough the hotel I was gonna go to he said, you're gonna make a wrong decision if you go there. And he said, if so that, that hotel basically changed ownership two years after. So first inflection point is you need a mentor. I am so lucky. It literally could be that I would not be in this industry if it wasn't for Tom. Went on, did some great things at the right time. I said to Tom, listen, operations is not for me. I love this business. What can I do? We talked through, he said, there's this firm out on Long Island called HBS. Give them the call. They do consulting. I'm like consulting. Cool. I had no idea what consulting is. Sent the letter to Steve Rushmore. Steve quickly introduced me to my partner of 20 years. Keith Capin met with Keith and he said, you wanna do executive search? And I said, sure. I have no clue what executive search is, but I'll do executive search. I learned the business and it really leads to inflection point number two. I remember in the first week there I came in, I thought I knew everything about the hotel industry. And I'm sitting down with HBSers. People that really know the business, they're talking in terms like RevPAR and segment class and asset management. I had no clue. I thought I knew everything. I knew nothing. I didn't know what an asset manager was. I said, I gotta learn this stuff. And fortunately through the people I worked with I just became a sponge and learned the business. But it really. Made me understand that if I'm gonna do something, I think it's critical to become specialized. And I really, from that point on, said I'm gonna really take ownership of the hotel industry and the restaurant industry as well. I do a lot of work in the restaurant industry and, I just became, I just learned I was around some really smart people. Any question people were there to mentor people that were younger than me, people that were o older than me. And that was key to really launch me into being a true professional in the world of executive search. Now I think I'm in. I call it the third quarter of my career I have the ability to work with all the people I grew up with in the industry like yourself. Everybody's in leadership roles. I now do know what I'm talking about, thank God. And just having a blast and that the, that's the next inflection point. It's. Since I was at HBS, I've launched my own search firm, I've been involved in this world and doing it, and you really need to have the ability to make sure work and pleasure collide. They have to collide. It's just there's so much that goes into doing anything right, and the ability to have them collide is just. It's important, but it's the best thing ever. And that's where I'm at right now. I'm in Q3 of my, I would say career, if you will. I don't know that fourth inflection point yet. We shall see. But I think I know what it is, but I'm just I'm running, I'm working in a great industry and that really covers the journey in some, I think, key points. Again, it was all around mentorship. Great advice and just dumb luck. Think about it. My first job just happened to be in a hotel, and that hotel was a Plaza Hotel.

Lan Elliott 7:04

I'm glad that your first accounting job was in the hospitality industry, and even if it was luck. I do see a theme that once people discover hospitality, they think this is actually a great industry to be in. So I love that theme. I also love that your mentor was very clear with you that we're going to make these decisions together. I'm here for you. You don't always get someone who's going to come right out and tell you in so many words that they're basically your mentor. And I think also your openness to different. Roles and trying different things. But I particularly loved the piece where he noticed that you didn't have joy in your accounting role and you didn't bring that and it was not the spark he knew that you had and that he was so supportive and helping you find that. So I think it's so important to find that thing that is your thing.

David Mansbach 8:00

Yes, I agree a hundred percent.

Lan Elliott 8:04

Along your journey through the various quarters, where do you seek resources or guidance in terms of leadership skills, professional skills? Do you have a favorite leadership resource that. You could share with our audience?

David Mansbach 8:22

Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's twofold. I think it's resources and network network. I know we're gonna talk about extensively through this because one, it's been a key theme in my career, but in listening to a lot of the other people you've interviewed, it's a key theme for them as well. In terms of resources. I'm fortunate, I just love to absorb information. And in information, call it 2.0 right now, it's not just reading books, it's podcasts, it's reading books it's everything. And what I love, I, I think and is key in dealing with C-Suite executives and strategy is biographies. I think biographies are the closest thing. To a time machine that exists. It's so cool and eerie when you go back and read biographies about things that have happened 50 a hundred years ago and how the same things are happening in the same way today. One one, the biography I'm reading right now is on Robert Moses. I'm a Long Islander in New York. He really built the entire infrastructure. So everything from the politics to what he's done to literally driving the roads that he's built it, it's just the coolest thing. So biographies in leadership in, in, in just all different type, diverse is key. Just different types of people. Steve Jobs was a great one. Forged In Crisis, which talks about leaders like Abraham Lincoln and Erna, Shackleton facing adversity. It's all really good stuff. Podcasts again, you could learn I think these days as much from an expert in the medical field. And how to apply it to your business as you can from a leader in, in, in our business. And while some may think this is weird, boring, and crazy what's made me very powerful in my thinking is the ability to listen to investor calls quarterly investor calls, reading annual reports. I'm a compensation nerd. I have to, reading the compensation Committee, committee reports. So I spend a lot of time on the public companies, both in the hotel and the restaurant space. Digging into that information. It really whether you're a recruiter in the business, it could make super, super smart. So that's resources.

Lan Elliott 10:33

Those are really great ones. And the Steve Job biography, has been mentioned a few times. I understand it's very big. But it's on my to-do list to, to read that at some point you had touched on the importance of developing a network as being one of the factors in your success. And obviously with hospitality, people staying within the industry for a long time, you have the chance to see those relationships evolve and grow. But for a lot of people, this idea of networking sounds scary. The first thought I think a lot of people get is walking into that ballroom at a cocktail party with 200 people. You don't know. Yeah. But it encompasses a lot more than just, that moment in time. I'm curious how you've developed your network, which. Obviously super important as an executive recruiter, how do you develop it in a way that's natural for you?

David Mansbach 11:28

Yeah, this is probably my favorite topic and I love counseling students coming into the industry. It's one of my favorite things to do, and it's really as, as important at the C-suite to have a network as well. When I started and again I have an interesting lens. 'cause in professional services, in order to get business, you need to build a network. And when I started, I would just go and say, okay, I want to do business with Company X, so I'm gonna reach out to the decision makers at Company X and try to get their business. And I failed miserably. Literally my hit ratio was probably close to 0%. And at that time I started realizing that mentors could be helpful. So I did go to some people and really what it came back to as. In order to build a network, the foundation is you have to identify people that you like, that you enjoy being with, and most importantly, people that you sincerely want to help. It has to start with helping other people. If you're going and you're looking for something, it's very rare that you're going to get that until you develop relationships and help people out. And fortunately, I love helping people out. I love giving advice. So with that, that shift and that tweak that's where it just beca, it didn't change overnight for me, but till this day I have this concept where I have. I call it my Power one 50. These are people that are friends, that are clients that are candidates I place that are in my personal network, through family where I could just pick up the phone and call them anytime. And I know they will call and help me as well, and it's led to. Something v it's very fulfilling both personally and professionally. And the bonus is these people become your personal board of advisors. So you have the ability to get real professional advice from someone that really knows what they're talking about. I talked about being specialized. I could go super specialize. I haven't shared this in a public forum. But when the pandemic hit I. Everybody in the hotel space was like, wow what's the world gonna look like? And I took advantage of the massive slowdown and wanted to hit on something that I always wanted to do, which is enter into the restaurant business. More specifically, I always, I worked with a lot of entrepreneurial restaurant franchisees. And I said, why not do that? And two of my friends, one, again, very a real estate expert and the other one a corporate attorney. They were friends, they were in the same situation. We said we're gonna go on a journey and try to do this. And what did I do? I just simply picked up the phone and called three CEOs that are in my power, one 50 in my network that know 50 times more than me. In the restaurant space. And I said, if you were to do this, what are the two, three brands you would call? And they all said, forget about three brands. There's one brand, and that's Jersey Mike's. And we all know Jersey Mike's. And, again, a lot of luck. We got into the system and we've been in the system for four years. I have a wonderful operating partner that runs the business so I can focus in on this 'cause this is what I really love. But it, it just goes back to leveraging people that are just much smarter than you. And if you take the approach that you want to help them, it's a win, win on so many levels.

Lan Elliott 15:19

That's an incredible story. Could you dig a little bit deeper into how you're helping other people? Because obviously you're asking them for help. So how do you make it that you're helping other people? Is it being genuinely interested and offering to help?

David Mansbach 15:36

First it's really understanding and it's not a coincidence that it, it's called Power one 50. It's impossible to have a power 1000. There's just been studies that communities going back hundreds, 200, 300 years, thousands of years, communities were always designed around 130 to 200 people because that's when you really know each person individually. So it starts with, really just knowing like Land Elliot is in my Power one 50. I know what interests you personally, professionally, and if I read an article that I know would be of interest to you. I'm gonna send it to you. I love when someone calls and says, I need advice on this. Usually people are calling me when it comes to, do you know a company culture? Do you know this CEO that I'm gonna go work for? What are your thoughts around compensation? So it's really it's a fun journey and it's really helping people that way. Yeah.

Lan Elliott 16:34

And it's really getting to know people as individuals and building that relationship, helping each other. And then when you have that ask, you already have a relationship that you can lean on when you're looking for something. Absolutely. And it's

David Mansbach 16:45

so critical. It really is critical, but it's gotta come from a place where you really wanna help the person and the person really wants to help you. I've had many individuals over my career funnel in and out of my power one 50. Not just for no other reason than, things change. They may move international. It's just whatever it is. There's been some people that, quite honestly, I've helped and when I've asked for help in return, it wasn't there. Life's too short. But I'm personally good with having 150 trusted advisors at any point in time.

Lan Elliott 17:19

I love that you had touched on during the pandemic, you started franchising Jersey, Mike. Restaurants and. Obviously the pandemic has changed a lot in our industry. One of the trends we've seen in hospitality downturns is, and I'll speak more specifically to the real estate area, which is the area that I know, but I think it translates to other areas of the industry, is we let the junior team members go. They're usually the analysts or the people early in their careers go, and then the industry always turns around and about three years later. You're looking for junior people who have two to three years of experience, which is what those people would've had if you would've kept them around at that point in time. And I'm curious what you think about this and what do you tell clients who come to you? And I know you work mostly at the executive level, but in general who are looking for people and we have this cycle of letting people go and then we're looking for. Those people and the industry has made them into unicorns if they're still around.

David Mansbach 18:30

Yeah. I'll speak to the hotel industry, and a lot of this is in the restaurant space as well. You look at the two biggest shocks, which were the 2000 eight, nine recession, and of course the global pandemic, and then there's some mini shocks like nine 11 and the tech bust and so forth. The first fault for the hotel industry is what you've just said. It's around human capital and right sizing for a downturn. Again, I'm empathetic. I know what it takes to run a business successfully, and I know how companies were massively hit. And I also know while they laid off people they spent a lot of time taking care of those people, especially, which, which speaks to the specialness of our space. Most companies in other industries would just lay off in this industry. I had one client, from housekeeper up, it was, we wanna make sure they have food. We wanna make sure their families are healthy. But to your point, and it's not just entry level there's a move to reduce talent and it's a twofold problem. One the hotel industry at large till this day, I think still needs to do a better job in becoming. The segment, the employer of choice. And it's just not, I know, it's a podcast in itself and I think there's a lot of opportunity and there's some good, smart people out there that are spending a lot of time making this the employer of choice. But these high performers they're gonna pivot. They're gonna hustle. And whether they're starting at their career, their mid-career at the C-suite they're gonna, they're gonna do things. And we're losing a lot of people because the skillset is transferable to other industries. So now we're here again, I think in a place. Where succession planning at the top of the org chart is a problem. And finding entry level people for this industry. And I think everybody, I think companies, recruiters, colleges, all have an obligation that are specialized in this space to really make this an employer of choice. But with that said for people listening to this podcast it's creating a lot of opportunity for people that are coming into this industry because a lot of these organizations, whether it's a hotel, a private equity group a publicly traded reit, they are running lean and mean, and it's giving people that are entering the business the opportunity to do a lot more. Early on just because there's not enough infrastructure of talent internally. So the chaos is going to create opportunity, but it's here right now and it's a problem. Yeah.

Lan Elliott 21:21

I'm curious, you present a lot of candidates to your clients as potential hires. What makes a candidate stand out? If you had to pick one thing that you wish. Candidates.

David Mansbach 21:35

Yeah, that's, yeah. I would say skillset is important, but it's not the most important thing. I think there are certain traits, I call it the critical three. Okay. That every candidate, again, whether it's entry level and some C-suite executives still need to work on this. And it's empathy, resilience. Self-awareness and humility in there as well. And I think that the better companies that are really concerned, the companies that are really concerned about their culture and really importing talent in, and now having to pay more for talent, they're really paying attention to this skillset. It's gonna it's not going away. Again, maybe we'll touch on ai. But if you look at an analyst. Within two, three years, that's gonna be a lot of AI driven and that's gonna create other problems because if you don't get the ability to live and breathe as an analyst, how do you go into asset management or acquisitions? But to me, and to answer your question, it starts with personality traits and those traits and people are really looking closely. I spend a lot of time through my interviews really screening out for personality traits. Core skillset, past accomplishments are very important. And but that, that, that's what I say is the most important.

Lan Elliott 22:59

Empathy is probably not something that would be at the top of anyone's. List, I'd say 10, 15 years ago. So that is definitely a trend. Let's talk a little bit about AI, because you had mentioned it and there was a recent study by Unia HR where they went in and tested three popular AI tools for screening resumes. And it was a bit shocking because those three tools only agreed on 14% of the resumes. I

David Mansbach 23:29

had one. Yeah. Yeah. And,

Lan Elliott 23:31

and that's a bit scary, right? So thoughts on, yeah,

David Mansbach 23:33

no, I know where you're going with this and there's a little irony in this whole situation. And I was I had lunch with a senior very senior HR executive within our industry this week, earlier this week. And he is not using AI yet. When it comes to screening I think what's happening, especially at the larger companies, is internal recruiters, and I'm even seeing this in the world of executive search as well. They're placing too much emphasis on ai. And what's happening is because at a point in time it's gonna be extremely powerful, but right now the algorithms. Are, we're losing. Companies are losing out on really good people because they're seeing a lot of resumes and they're being screened out by the algorithms. And it's a dangerous thing. 'cause now what's happening, as I said before, I mentor a lot of students, people coming in, and it's scary. Some of these, these individuals are coming to me and they're saying, Dave, what are the key words I should have in my resume? So you have a reactive play in that people are gaming their resumes, and the irony then is it creates more work for the internal recruiters. So again, I am confident at a point in time AI is gonna play a very powerful role in screening, but right now it it's creating a lot of. A lot of chaos for internal recruiters and not doing companies justice. So I would encourage internal recruiters strategists that are thinking about human capital in any space to really get smart on AI and understand where they're as much missing out as much on the other side where they think there's gonna be efficiencies.

Lan Elliott 25:26

Yeah I know when I've tried to hire, for example, junior people and the internal recruiter would come to me with, these are all the people, and I thought, there's gotta be more. And she goes, there, there are more. But I screened them out and I said, I wanna see them all

David Mansbach 25:41

right.

Lan Elliott 25:41

And the person we ended up hiring was in that pile that she hadn't presented to me. So I think. Knowing what you're looking for and taking the time. It's such an important piece of adding someone to your team. Not just skills like you said, but having the same values, the same cultural views, in terms of what's important, what you're looking for that will make your team cohesive. I wanted to talk about negotiating offer letters, and I spent most of my career negotiating contracts on behalf of my company, but I'm still not very good at negotiating, offer letters for myself and. It's just something that's uncomfortable because you wanna join the company, you're excited to join the company. Now you think, how hard do I actually wanna negotiate this and maybe burn some bridges before I've even walked in the door on my first day? What advice do you have for people who wanna do the best job negotiating their offer letter, but don't wanna rub people the wrong way?

David Mansbach 26:45

Yeah I think it's. It is an interesting topic. It's a sensitive topic. I have a whole team of recruiters within this organization, and I went through it myself. In talking with candidates it's just always becomes an uncomfortable situation, talking about compensation and it's just, it just shouldn't be as taboo as it is. The two things that are surprising to me is if people are leveraging their networks. Recruiters love to help. We love to give free advice. Okay. And it's surprising we do not get that many calls. From our friends in the industry, candidates, we built relationships with C-Suite and down saying, Hey, what are the trends, you are seeing in terms of compensation? What are some ideas based on this? And definitely as we go down the org chart, we don't see this. And I think everybody quickly goes to one piece of the compensation mix, which is base salary, and it's a mix for a reason. It's base salary. It's bonus, there's potential long-term opportunity. There's the intrinsic career progression and everybody gets caught in that base salary number. And on top of that, now back to the conversation about AI is I know the numbers and I have clients and candidates running numbers off of AI that are massively. Inconsistent with what the real numbers are out there. So around this whole con this whole conversation, the better executive recruiters that are representing clients will do a good job serving as a liaison between the candidate and the client to help where it's a win-win for everybody and it's transparent conversation. The better senior level HR execs. They're calling recruiters and saying, what are you seeing out there and what are the trends? But there are a lot of people in that third bucket that are just going in and they're just forget. I wouldn't even use the term negotiation. They're not, they're just stuck on base salary, where they're at, what they think the market is, and they start there. And I think it's just become smarter. Like I said I'm not, I know everybody's not gonna read the compensation philosophy Lee of a comp publicly traded company that they're considering in joining. But you could certainly learn a lot about do they pay, is they pay for performance? Do they pay a high base salaries and just take a more thoughtful, longer term approach to negotiation. Because it's just bigger than one piece of the compensation mix where everybody just spends too much emphasis on, but lever leverage people. There's a lot of pe recruiters want to help. I'm sure people that are in your, on your side of the business that are younger could call you and I know you would want to help. So it's just get more information, get smarter about it.

Lan Elliott 29:57

Yeah, leverage your network, ask for advice back

David Mansbach 30:00

to the network.

Lan Elliott 30:01

Yes. I do think people are sometimes n nervous and it's a bit vulnerable to ask for advice, but I think you can't do a good job for yourself if you don't have the right information.

David Mansbach 30:13

It's a very, it's a very interesting it's a very sensitive topic. You'll be out to dinner with friends and you could talk about all your health issues. And unfortunately, I'm getting to the point where the, that's starting to be the topic of conversation, but no one talks about s salary or this or that. It's just, it's always been an interesting, it's just been a very interesting topic, but there are some good resources out there and it's usually in people that are experts in that area.

Lan Elliott 30:42

I love that, and I love the idea of. You developing a network of recruiters that you help out when they have requests, but then they can also be a great resource for you when you're negotiating offer letter to help give you some advice and some context. So

David Mansbach 30:58

again I am saying this as one of many executive recruiters out there, I just, I had nothing to do with the search. I had a account call me. And I helped him negotiate his entire package and he said, thank you so much. This was helpful. I'm getting nothing from it. And it was so rewarding and it was a win because he's taken the opportunity, he's moving his family. It's a big move. And I think everybody, including the group that he was negotiating with, appreciated the thoughtfulness and the short and long-term thinking. Around the totality of the package.

Lan Elliott 31:37

I love that. I'm calling you next time if I get a job. Anytime.

David Mansbach 31:40

Anytime.

Lan Elliott 31:42

We are coming up on the end of our discussion, but I had two last questions for you. The first one is probably my favorite question that I ask all our guest advisors, which is, what advice would you give to your younger self, that 22-year-old self? What would you tell him?

David Mansbach 32:05

I would say two things. I would say one celebrate your successes both personally and professionally. Anybody who is motivated and serious about their career typically achieves something and moves right onto the next thing. And I'll never forget it was, I was prob it was about 15 years ago. And it was towards Christmas and two different candidates sent me beautiful, wine and candy and all this stuff with notes and I was away on business and my daughter read it and it was, thank you so much. My family, so appreciative, we're settled in this, and this. And she came to me and I think at the time she was like. 12 years old, she's dad, this is really important. This is cool. And I'm like I, she had to make me realize that it's wow, I actually just moved a family of five. And on top of that this person has, has a change in career and so forth. And ever since then, what I did. And I think I read this in a book, actually, this is not an idea I came up with because I really don't come up with ideas. I just read ideas is throughout the year, I just wrote down in an Excel sheet all the things, small successes, big successes. You go back to that list at the end of the year, it's pretty powerful. You really don't realize what you do. And everybody's just forward thinking. And you really. Should celebrate your success. I think the other thing is people, and this is people starting off in their career and going back to my 22 year self, you have to be patient, you have to be the career progression. It's not linear. It's not oh, every year you see a little bit of an increase, especially in the world of professional services. And I'm going on year, I think 25 now. And it's you have to understand that. It's more compound than linear and you just have to be patient because I see it in some of the younger people. They get frustrated too early and they react too severely. IE leave an industry, leave a competency where they just need to give it a little bit more time. So those would be the two things that really, stand out.

Lan Elliott 34:22

Thank you. Great advice. And. Our last question. You have offered so much amazing advice during our discussion and keeping in mind that its personal stories. Mission is around empowering personal success. Do you have one final nugget of advice for our audience who are looking to advance their career?

David Mansbach 34:47

I would go back to the, to two things we've discussed. I would say it's those critical three, those personality traits the empathy the emotional intelligence, and there's subsets like even gut thinking. Personality traits are gonna be so key moving forward because skillset wallow will always be important. AI is gonna be playing a very different role in not just the hotel industry, but every industry. So really constantly work on yourself, especially around the humility and self-awareness. It's very important. And then the other piece is the network. Everybody, that, that's what evens the playing field for everybody. Keep your network diverse. And really build a network. There's no reason whether you're 22 or 55, you could always continue to be meeting people, interesting people that could help advance as you change, as evolve as an I person. So those would be my two things, Lynn.

Lan Elliott 35:48

Amazing. Thank you so much, David. I really enjoyed our conversation and really grateful for you to come on and share your thoughts and for our audience, if you've enjoyed this interview with Dave, I hope you will go to our website, it's personal stories.com for many more hospitality industry leader interviews. Thank you. Thanks Dave.