Amanda Frasier, President, Standards & Ratings, Forbes Travel Guide, interviewed by Lan Elliott

Amanda's career is a masterclass in treating uncertainty as opportunity rather than obstacle. Her willingness to say yes, paired with a mindfulness around chasing perfection, is a reminder that growth rarely comes from staying comfortable. Just as importantly, her approach to self-advocacy and relationship-building shows that confidence doesn't require volume - it requires clarity about one's own worth. For anyone navigating a career crossroads, her story is proof that authenticity, patience, and a willingness to take a leap can shape a lasting and meaningful path forward.

Transcript

Lan Elliott 0:00

Hello and welcome to It's Personal Stories, the podcast dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. My name is Lynn Elliott on behalf of It's Personal Stories, and I am delighted to have Amanda Fraser with us today. Welcome, Amanda.

Amanda Frasier 0:18

Hello, Lynn. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Lan Elliott 0:20

I've been wanting to interview you for quite a while, and I'm delighted we get to do it today.

Amanda Frasier 0:26

Oh, so excited. Thank you.

Lan Elliott 0:29

I know you've had an incredible career journey. I'm wondering if you could share some of the inflection points in your very successful career, and if there's a particular factor or factors that you think contributed to your success.

Amanda Frasier 0:45

Gosh, now you want me to go back deep, yeah, deep into my memory. I think for me, some of the most pivotal points in my career and, those inflection points as you say, really are about the opportunities where I guess I could have gone one way or the other, and it was always just not saying no, even if I felt like that was maybe not for me or maybe not the right opportunity or not quite what I was interested in. So for me, certainly taking that leap to move abroad and then maybe, stepping out of hotel operations and eventually over into Forbes Travel Guide, those points where I did something a little bit different, a little bit unknown, a li- a little bit where I really went out on a limb for myself, those have been the biggest points th- as I look back.

Lan Elliott 1:29

And you've been at Forbes Travel Guide for over 20 years now. How has staying and being in different roles at Forbes been important to your journey? And I'm curious how you stay fresh when you've been at the same company for a long time.

Amanda Frasier 1:47

Yes, thank you. That's a very good question. Yeah, 20 years flies by, but I think... first of all, 20 years flies by when you're doing something you love. But also for me to, when I think about longevity and staying with the brand for so long, we often talk about this internally, is that, we're the world's maybe oldest startup. There is very much an entrepreneur mindset, and that comes obviously all the way from the very top, from our chairman through to our CEO and our executive team, and it's really about challenging ourselves as a brand and a company to not be afraid of change and moving through change and pivoting. And that can often be seen as maybe a negative thing, but it's certainly been a key to why I've been here so long. Yes.

Lan Elliott 2:30

And have you taken on different roles that have allowed you to pivot along the way?

Amanda Frasier 2:36

Definitely, yes, several. And again, that goes back to what we were just talking about. I really never said no to an opportunity that came along. And that happened all the way from the very first interview I had when I interviewed for Mobile, which was for one role, and was asked about my interest in another. Having never done the alternate role, but just saying, "Yes, of course I can do that," and not really knowing if I could or not that worked out. And really along the way, the journey has been about, again, opening myself up to trying new things and never saying no. I do say no. I do say no You do say- But no means yes to an opportunity.

Lan Elliott 3:15

Could you share with us a story about when you said yes to something that you weren't sure about, and how it turned out for you?

Amanda Frasier 3:24

I think, there's a couple of things. But, for me, coming from hotel operations, one thing that I always used to really enjoy doing but never really had the time for was training and contributing to other people's growth and success. And I remember when I first went for our in- my interview here, I was told that, Mobile Travel Guide was looking at education and training, and is that something you would be interested in? And I was like, "Yes, I love..." I remember saying, "I love to train," but never really, when you're in operations, do you have the luxury sometimes of doing that, unless you have, the investment of that time and that team. So for me, being one of the individuals that was able to participate in the inauguration and start of that effort for our company, that was pretty pivotal and pretty special, and it's, grown now under the leadership of some other amazing individuals. And similarly, when, we wanted to grow ratings globally, when I started, we were in two, three countries, I think. Then we grew to five for a little while, and then there was a real effort on going global. And that was a big part of a turning point for me as well.

Lan Elliott 4:30

That's incredible. And I've thought about Forbes Travel Guide being global for so long, but you don't realize at some point you start somewhere before it grows into people aspire to be a part of. So thank you for sharing a little bit about how that started. Yeah. I wanted to talk about learning from setbacks, because we've heard that sometimes it's the things that don't go right that teach you much more, versus when things go perfectly. And I'm wondering if there's a situation where you've experienced a setback that taught you something valuable.

Amanda Frasier 5:10

Gosh, a setback that taught me something valuable. I really can't think of anything off the top of my head because I really have this mindset that, even in moments of what seem like failure, there's a moment of growth. So I, it's not that I would say I had a setback, certainly there's been times in my career where I haven't enjoyed doing something or it hasn't maybe worked out quite the way I thought or wasn't the success that we thought. But I don't really ever look at it as a failure, just the chance to reinvent and try it again a different way.

Lan Elliott 5:46

Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes you get handed something to do that isn't your favorite thing to do, but sometimes it just needs to get done. But sometimes- There is a plan that you may not be aware of that is a skill that you need to learn or something that you need to grow in, and it can help build your toolkit for the future.

Amanda Frasier 6:08

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Lan Elliott 6:11

Let's talk about building a network, because there's lots of ways you can think about it. There is one perception that you can look at how many followers you have on LinkedIn, but I think the hospitality industry is really relationship driven, rather than social media or anything else. It goes to building relationships with people, I've met people across the table that I've then become friends with after negotiating with them on behalf of both our companies. How do you develop your network in a way that suits you? Because not everybody's comfortable walking into that industry cocktail party with 300 people and you think, Who am I gonna talk to?"

Amanda Frasier 6:56

It's, it this is really interesting because I think of myself as quite introverted, and I think I have more people asking to link in with me than I have LinkedIn with because I'm just, I just get, it makes me very uncomfortable to be in a room full of a lot, a lot of people. So when you ask about networking, I'm probably not the best person to give advice on how to network. But what has worked for me at the end of the day, it's about authenticity, and I think you end up creating a network because you like people, and it, and you have like-minded thoughts and like-minded goals. And for me, having a network isn't about the size of the network or how many people if, if that's your style, that's wonderful if thousands of people. But for me, I've always thought about the quality of those relationships versus- just the quantity. And to me, that's been something that has helped me and been far more successful because now I have a community of people that I know I can trust 110%, whether that's individuals that I work immediately alongside of, or, people in my broader network outside of the company. I think that has been something that has helped me.

Lan Elliott 8:06

I love the idea of quality over quantity, but I am curious because although I'm also not a person that loves going into a large cocktail party with a lot of people to navigate. But you just had a wonderful conference in Monaco. I see the beautiful picture behind you. Yes. And you had many influential people from the world of hospitality and the food world that were there. And you're there welcoming them with the others from Forbes Travel Guide. I'm curious how you navigated that. Or do you have any tips or things that you do when you meet people at these large conferences? Is it still about collecting business cards? Is it about making a note afterwards? I'm curious how you navigate that, because there are times we get thrust into these situations that are not always our comfort zones.

Amanda Frasier 9:05

Thank you. My gosh, Sarah, that's a loaded question. So yeah, yes, it's all it's all of that. And we're a big team, but, if I'm talking about... Yeah, and, we have over 1,000 people I think that come to the event over the course of a couple of days, so I couldn't possibly unfortunately meet everybody myself. But, I think for me, again, yes, it's about collecting business cards and meeting people, although we know everybody that we invite it's by invite only. But I think the interesting thing about this event is that we spend all year as an organization, for the most part, judging and evaluating at least 50 to 60% of the guests that we're inviting to our show. So the biggest thing on my mind is walking the walk that we say is most important and which is being authentic and delivering an experience. So my team and I talk regularly about how can we make sure that we're putting on an environment, we're creating an experience that's not just another conference, 'cause there's plenty of those out there. But how do we show up in a way that feels genuine to what we're looking for when it comes to assembling our star rating list? So for us, it's really about... And this goes across our whole team, but, certainly this is the DNA of the event, is bringing together a community of like-minded people, and it's not necessarily a chore or a task, or we must make sure we meet as many people as we can. But really the bigger question is, have we created an environment that makes people feel welcomed and comfortable and not overly stressed? And part of that comes down to that you're there to welcome them and make people feel invited and part of the club, as it were. And so many hands and so many details go into that. And are we perfect? No, we're not perfect, but we try to make sure that, those things are considered along the way.

Lan Elliott 10:57

It's very interesting to talk about making sure everyone feels included and welcomed because there can be a perception of luxury being very much exclusive. Certain people get to be part of it. And I'm curious, when you work with your teams, how do you ensure that a large group of people feel special and included and welcomed and that piece of hospitality? What do you say to your team in order to bring that spirit about?

Amanda Frasier 11:36

Get it done. Yeah, I know, right? It's a it's a progress. It's a real progression, I should say of development. And one thing I've learned over the years is never to rush. I very much am coming out of that phase where I'm like, get it done," and let things develop naturally and don't force an outcome because I think once you force an outcome, the person experiencing whatever it is that you're trying to create feels that it's a little more prescriptive, a little more scripted. And while we want to be rehearsed and ready and everyone needs to feel confident in their role, whatever it might be, at the end of the day, you really just want to have people feel that you're being yourself and that you've got something for everybody. So when we're putting the program together, we're really thinking about who we are as a brand, what do we stand for what are our values, who is our audience, and how do we make sure we bring something that delivers on that and that we're not speaking to our audience, but feeling that we're drawing them in. I think we've matured in that way as a brand as well, even in the way that the summit has been produced over the years, how it's, grown up as it were

Lan Elliott 12:54

Amazing. I wanted to turn to advocating for ourselves, because this is such an important part of career progression. But I find that women, and I think all people, can have issues or concerns about advocating for themselves. I've been a great advocate for my company, but advocating for myself is a whole different thing that somehow doesn't translate. And I'm curious what advice you have for people who are looking to advance their careers and are not sure how to advocate for themselves, because there is a right and a wrong way to do it. I know you've had people on your team who've come and asked you for raises or promotions. What advice do you have for the right way to advocate for oneself?

Amanda Frasier 13:48

I think it's... this is something probably I'm still learning, but certainly as I've grown, I think it's about knowing your value and knowing your worth and, not letting somebody else tell you what you're worth, but feeling confident in your own abilities, and that doesn't mean that you have to be... you don't have to have a big ego about it and you don't have to be obnoxious. You can know your value and know your worth quietly. Sometimes I often think and still believe that the less you say, the better. And sometimes silence speaks louder than words. But it's really... I think especially for women it sometimes you feel that to get what you want, maybe you have to raise your voice or be more aggressive, and you really don't. You just have to be confident in what you're saying. And when I say confident, not just being brave enough to say it, but believing it. If you believe in yourself first about what you deserve, then the confidence comes from within. I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by a team of individuals that possess that and we're able to have, very open and honest conversations often before they want something. I can see the value in them and my team and want the same for them as, I did for myself

Lan Elliott 15:00

Absolutely. I do think there is one school of thought of put your head down, work hard, and your hard work will get noticed. But I don't think that always works in the business world because people get busy, your boss gets busy, they've got a lot of different priorities they're juggling. And in the back of their mind, they might recognize someone who's doing great work, but they can't always articulate it. They can't always bring it to the forefront to advocate for you in that moment where it's important. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for people to help boost themselves for when their boss or their sponsors are in those important rooms and have an opportunity to speak up on their behalf, the rooms that they're not in.

Amanda Frasier 15:54

Yeah. This, your question reminded me, it's the very British phrase, keep calm and carry on. Just keep your head down. British values are very often stereotyped as don't make a fuss, get in the queue and just- Stiff upper lip keep quiet. Yeah. Keep... And so I do have a lot of that in me, but at the same time, I think it's really important that, again, that you know that you have value, and if you don't feel it's being seen or reciprocated because maybe somebody values you and they never wanna lose you, but sometimes what somebody says and what somebody does are two very different things. And if you don't find that balance, then, this is where open communication comes in and feeling that you have, you should always have that chance to advocate for yourself. And as a, a leader, you should always allow your team to feel empowered. Steve Wen and our own vice chairman have always said famously, "People need to feel a sense of self-esteem when you're at work and when you're in your personal life as well." A person with that work-life balance, I think there's no such thing. It's just one... You do a little bit of everything, right? It- you're hopefully the same person and you have to give a little bit of yourself to everything. So yeah, I really, I, it's a combination of those things.

Lan Elliott 17:10

Wonderful. You mentioned along the lines of self-care, and I wanted to dig into that a bit. Because you've got a global role, so you could be flying around the world or doing meetings and calls around the clock, and you have the kind of role that could be 24 hours a day. How do you ensure you don't get run down? Do you have a special way to recharge? And curious if the way you take care of yourself today has evolved over time.

Amanda Frasier 17:45

It definitely has evolved, esp- and every year that goes by, every birthday you you notice something. I think what I've learned today is that self-care is about doing things that you love. So whether self-care is jumping on a plane and drink the champagne and you have the wine with dinner, and great, do that if that's what makes you happy. At the same time, if, hydrating and getting your eight hours of sleep is something that makes you feel better, then do that. Do what's good for you and- I think it's very hard to say that's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. So for me, it's just everything in moderation. Some days I'm the champagne and when I get on the plane girl, and sometimes I'm like, "No, I'm only drinking water and I'm gonna get my hours of sleep." And I think you just gotta listen to yourself, and not treat yourself too harshly is something I've learned about self-care.

Lan Elliott 18:36

I love that. I am getting ready to get on a flight across the Atlantic to Europe on Saturday. Do you have any great tips for international travel and actually sleeping on a plane? 'Cause I am terrible at sleeping on a plane.

Amanda Frasier 18:50

Yeah, I don't get, I don't get a lot of sleep on the plane either, even though I try. I think it's about taking a few things that make you comfortable and a couple of tips that I, for me, always having a pair of great hotel slippers. So obviously I'm in hotels all the time. Once I've worn them in the hotel, I always take them with me because they are perfect for wearing on a plane when you need to slip in and out quickly. So that's one thing. Having a really good wrap because you just never know the temperature on a plane. Or it could... And I don't even know if, sometimes you don't even get a blanket now, do you? But- so j- things that kind of enhance your comfort for me those are the most important things.

Lan Elliott 19:32

So are you a land and get going right away person or do you land and exercise, do you, when you're flying from the US to Europe?

Amanda Frasier 19:41

No, I'm a land and go back to sleep kind of person- Okay if I can. There are times when it's unavoidable and you do have to go straight to a meeting that can be hard. But for me, if we're talking about self-care, I think if there was only one thing, one thing that I could continue to do for the rest of my life it's good sleep. And I think everyone feels better after a solid couple of hours.

Lan Elliott 20:05

You really do. I know I do. You mentioned that one thing and I couldn't let you go without bringing up Forbes Travel Guide, which for hotels it is an incredible honor to be on the list, much less at the very top of the list. And I do think that's something that many hotel owners and operators aspire to. And I know that Forbes is one of those lists that you can't buy your way onto. And I had heard about a famous checklist, now I've heard there's not a checklist that your inspectors go through. If you do this thousand list of things, you get this rating. And if those are not the way to get to the top of the list. I'm curious, what is the common thread that runs through the best hotels? What is the one thing that you see again and again for hotels, and what should people be focusing on if they aspire to be at the top of your list?

Amanda Frasier 21:09

At the end of the day what it really comes down to is consistency. We've long said that, within consistency c- consistency breeds confidence. And if you're trying to convince your guest that they've made the right choice about where they're staying and where maybe they're choosing to bring others or come back to it, you have to be consistent. And consistency for us doesn't mean homogenizing the industry and that it's exactly the same experience every single time. Because underneath consistency lies authenticity, and that comes down to not just people saying welcome because a checklist told you that you had to welcome your guest, but they're saying, and this is just an example, but they're giving you a warm welcome because they passionately want to make sure that you feel welcomed and that you're part, like we were talking about before, that you're part of that community. And the first thing a guest will notice even if they don't know it at the time, they'll know when someone's being disingenuous. There's a difference between saying thank you for your business and doing something that shows the appreciation. And so for us, and the way... And it's very complex, and we could probably talk for another hour, an hour about it. And my team know it 'cause they preside over it, every day. But, our algorithm is very complex. T- to take human emotions that we're looking to have evoked and then put them into an algorithm that's mathematical and into an a, in, into a box it's a very complex process. But that's basically what it is. It's we're looking for emotion, we're looking for how service makes somebody feel, and we do that through what could be considered a checklist. But it's a lot more it's a lot more dynamic than a checklist. We think of the standards and the way, and the algorithm and the way that we evaluate as really more of a roadmap rather than a checklist. 'Cause a checklist tells you how to do something A through Z, whereas a roadmap gives you a choice in how you're going to end up at the final destination. Everyone knows what the final destination is, or they should. That that's your priority, that's your strategy. But how you get there has to be on brand for you, and that's what we measure

Lan Elliott 23:24

It is a bit ephemeral what you're looking for. Where do you recommend people start? I'm gonna buy a hotel. I want it to be at the top of the list. Where do I start? Do I start with the renovation? Do I build the most beautiful hotel and that's going to get me there? Is it with the employees? Is it culture?

Amanda Frasier 23:46

Yes, I was gonna say it's all of that. Yes, you need to, if it's not already built or it needs a renovation, location and building something is part of it, but, we attribute 30% of our overall algorithm to the phys- the physical facility. So we're not saying it's not important, but that alone doesn't get you to the end goal. And when I say end goal, I don't- I'm not talking about being five-star, I'm just talking about getting onto our list or being considered one of, the best in the world on any list. But what it comes down to at the end of the day is if somebody... If you ask me the question, w- what should you be thinking about first, it's what culture do you want to build? How do you want your guest to feel is the question you should be asking. And then once you've established what is it you want people to feel and remember about your brand or your property or whatever it might be, your ship, your cruise, then you back everything else into it, and it becomes part of how you hire, how you treat your staff, how you incentivize them what's gonna keep them driven. Because all of that has to be in place first to translate into a better guest experience. That's all- And I say it like it's easy. It is not easy.

Lan Elliott 24:56

It is not

Amanda Frasier 24:56

easy. Running a hotel or anything in hospitality or running a restaurant is, a spa is some of the hardest work you'll ever do. I've done it and I know how hard it is. It's not easy, but the missteps often come from, let me just build it and it will happen, and that's unfortunately not the pathway.

Lan Elliott 25:12

So I took away so much from that. One, that the terribly expensive part of building the hotel or renovating it is only 30%, which is probably a little alarming for some of the people who spent over a million dollars a room-

Amanda Frasier 25:28

Or more, yes. Yeah

Lan Elliott 25:29

or more to build out or renovate a hotel. But all the things you talked about of culture and how you want your guests and your employees to feel, those are also great lessons for leaders in business. How you want your team to feel, how you want your clients to feel, and I think that idea of culture being the place to start is a really special way of thinking about that. Amanda, we are coming towards the end, but I always like to ask two questions before I let you go. And the first one is, what advice would you offer to your younger self? It's my favorite question because I think as we evolve, we have different advice to ourselves. Yeah. I'm curious, what would you want 22-year-old Amanda to know, either something that could help her on her journey or something that you want her to know that would've been helpful?

Amanda Frasier 26:33

Don't overthink it, and there is no such thing as perfection. I think probably one or both of those. I think that, that is something that sometimes you look back and you're like, "Wow, I wasted a lot of time trying to make that perfect," and actually it was really great already. And you dwell somet- you overthink things. I think overthinking and not that's a bad thing necessarily 'cause I think that shows that you care, but being too caught up in things. And I think that's just a matter of maturity, right? And being able to let go and take a step back.

Lan Elliott 27:05

Everything seems so important when you're younger, but I think- And slow down, right? perfectionism- Slow

Amanda Frasier 27:09

down.

Lan Elliott 27:09

Yeah. And perfectionism can really derail people- because sometimes it takes half the effort to get to 80%, and then you're gonna spend another same amount of effort to get that last 20%. And I've always thought I could have used that time instead of making whatever I was working on more perfect. I could have used that time to build relationships and focus on people more. Oh, I love that advice. Amanda, you've offered a lot of wonderful advice during our discussion As It's Personal Stories is about empowering personal success for people in the hospitality industry. Along those lines, what is one final nugget of advice, you would offer to our audience?

Amanda Frasier 27:59

I think it's probably what we talked about at the top of our conversation and to never say no, even if you think you can't do it or you don't think you'll be very good at it. If you're given the opportunity to do something and expand your own creativity or, your own personal resume then just say yes. What's the worst that can happen? You'll fail, and then you'll be given the chance to do something else. And like I said, within failure comes growth opportunity. That would be my biggest advice. That served me fairly well along my journey.

Lan Elliott 28:32

It's a very fearless approach, but I think leaning into the things that make you uncomfortable can be really wonderful.

Amanda Frasier 28:40

For sure. For sure.

Lan Elliott 28:42

Thank you so much, Amanda. I'm so glad that I've had the chance to have this conversation with you, and really appreciate all of the wonderful advice you've offered to our audience.

Amanda Frasier 28:51

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Nice to talk to you.

Lan Elliott 28:54

Nice to talk with you, too. And for our audience, if you've enjoyed this conversation with Amanda, I hope you'll visit our website, itspersonalstories.com, where you can find many more interviews with hospitality industry leaders.