Dr. Tim Flohr, Co-Founder, Hospitality Nexus, interviewed by Lan Elliott

Tim’s insights remind us that growth rarely comes from having every answer. It comes from saying yes, listening closely, and treating people as the most important part of any conversation. His experience encourages us to see setbacks as turning points, not endings. Keep showing up for the unglamorous daily work, and choose action over analysis paralysis, since a wrong decision beats no decision. Above all, we are never finished becoming.

Transcript

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Lan Elliott 0:02

Hello, and welcome to It's Personal Stories. My name is Lan Elliott on behalf of It's Personal Stories, and today I'm pleased to have Dr. Tim Flor, one of IHI's Global 100 Influential Educators in Hospitality and co-founder of Hospitality Internships, which now goes by Hospitality Nexus. Welcome, Tim.

Tim Flohr 0:25

Hey. Good morning. Thank you so much

Lan Elliott 0:28

So pleased to have you on. Tim, I know you've had an interesting career journey. Can you share some of the inflection points in your successful career, and if there was a factor or factors that contributed to your success?

Tim Flohr 0:44

That is a great question. And when I look back at inflection points, probably the first one where it seems like it's totally unrelated to hospitality would be that I started boxing at the age of 15 years old. So I was born on the East Coast, but I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska. And at the age of 15, I was basically sick of getting bullied all the time and so I wanna learn how to defend myself, so I started boxing at the age of 15. And when I did that, I... the gentleman who was my boxing coach still a great friend to this day he kinda took me under his wing and I started building a lot of confidence, started building a stronger work ethic and stronger discipline from that. And while this might seem totally unrelated to hospitality he was a commercial builder. And in the late '80s, I was... when I was still 15 years old, I believe he'd built a box- or built a a reception hall, an event venue in Omaha, and he... I remember one night he called my mom and said, "Mrs. Florek, can, I have a event going on Friday, my new business. Can Tim work?" And she's like he'll be there." I started working at the Georgetown Club in West Omaha when I was 15. And from there, I did banquet set up and banquet serving and and that, I did that every weekend through high school and into college. From there the Omaha Marriott later came in and purchased that and took over operations there. So I worked at the Marriott and was fortunately able to get receive a lot of their trainings and learn their, the, the Marriott way. So that actually got me my start in the career. And meanwhile, I had no idea it was gonna be that was gonna be my career. And the, the funny thing about looking back on life is it makes so much more sense looking back now than it did when I was living it. So I was a, I was an economics major at the University of Nebraska, and I paid for s- college by working at the Georgetown Club and with Marriott. And then something happened. My parents retired. They moved back to the East Coast, like Eastern Shore, Maryland, Delaware beaches back in the early '90s and I went back with them and worked at the beach for a summer and didn't leave for a few years. So it didn't make sense at the time, but I gave up what was a full ride at the University of Nebraska for economics and bar tended and worked at the beach for several years. And that kinda led to the second inflection point in my life, which was going to the University of Delaware. So they had a, and still have one of the top hospitality programs in the country. Back in '95 I was introduced to the program and decided to change majors from economics to hotel, restaurant, and institutional management, and that was indeed a life-changing move right there. They introduced me to so many different things. The network that I had with the different professors from there, and with the cohort of students that I went with was was an amazing opportunity for me. And while I was there, we went to the hotel show in New York City back in the '90s when it was outstanding at the Jacob Javits Center. And that introduced me to New York City for the first time, and that kind of planted that seed of wanting to work in New York City. So that's probably the third inflection point, was making that move, going to the city. and probably the next inflection point was the birth of my daughter in '09 and that was really the point where I said, "You know what? I cannot keep doing these hours. I need to spend more time with the family." So again, I put a call into to the University of Delaware and my old contacts and said, "Listen, I'm looking for something else," putting it out there. And it took a while but I finally... they introduced me to an opportunity at Drexel University in Philadelphia. So that was when I they were looking for an operations manager there to keep oversight of the culinary arts program and taking a lot of what I did in industry and and helping to stabilize their culinary arts program and work in the hospitality program there. And a- and that really introduced me to, to academia, and they gave me my first shot at teaching there. I was an adjunct instructor. When I taught that class, I knew right then and there that that my passion was teaching and helping people to... and helping students. a few years l- later, we relocated to Memphis, and I had my first full-time teaching job at the University of Memphis. This is back in about 2016. And that was a, a e- an amazing opportunity for me. I really loved, Being in the classroom and taking that knowledge I had from industry and I took an un- an unconventional approach, I guess you could say, to had a non-linear career track in getting into academia. So I was in my late th- probably late 30s at that point, a late starter in academia. But from there is when amazing things started happening, and I'd say that started with with with getting involved with different professional organizations. So like CRE, for example, where I would I met people at my first conference in California with that that still great friends to this day and really build that community of with amongst hospitality educators. And actually out of that, that that first conference out there came a textbook opportunity for me. I met with my n- now great friend with with Kendall Hunt Publishing and my background was in project management while in hospitality, so an opportunity came about to write a textbook for project management. So I took that and ran with it. I continued building those relationships with people within that organization and that led to a lot of great opportunities. A few other textbook we collaborate with people and with textbooks as a result of that. And then I'd say the next reflection or inflection point was was going for my doctorate. So I started in 2018, and I like to say the best seven years of my life. Where I, but I didn't go the traditional route of getting a PhD in hospitality. I studied higher and adult education, which, which to me really helped me understand, organize, and validate all the things that I had done up to that point. And that was around the time as well when I started The Hospitality Nexus and started out with a few great educators from hospitality from across the globe and continuing to to nurture that. It actually started as hospitality internships where our goal was to help connect students with high quality internships, management training program opportunities, and entry level management positions. And then eventually that kinda outgrew the platform that we had there. It was a traditional job board very impersonal and not really what I was looking for. So we've transitioned to another platform where it's more of a community-based platform where we could bring in industry academia, ed- educators and vendors and everyone from the industry onto our platform. I had quite a few inflex inflection points over my career that changed the tr- trajectory, but, like I said, it makes a lot more sense looking back now than it did when I was doing it. And I think that happens a lot in life where people will maybe look at it and be like, "What is he doing? How are you connecting all these different things?" But that, that really started to make sense over the past couple years

Lan Elliott 7:48

you said yes to all these opportunities as they came along, and each door that you walk through, I think, opens new opportunities and new paths forward that you might not realize at the time you're making that first choice. So thank you for sharing that.

Tim Flohr 8:07

Absolutely. I have the philosophy from hospitality, I guess from being in operations so long, I say yes, then I figure it out. I am not afraid to say yes and take that chance and just figure out how to make it happen

Lan Elliott 8:21

And we need to do that a lot in hospitality, is to pivot and figure it out. That's part of the skills of being in this industry. I wanted to talk about your leadership evolution. What, for you, has gotten better over time, and what do you think might be slipping a little bit these days?

Tim Flohr 8:40

I think Over the course of my career, at the beginning of my career and being early in managing, you always wanna be the person who has to figure things out and has... And you think you're the person that has to have the answers to everything. And while that is important as you, I think as you grow as a leader you really need to focus more on everything on your team and your operation. And I think that's the, kind of the mindset, the switch that I had over time. I've had some great mentors over, over the course of my career, and with each one, they added a different different skills and knowledge, and granted, gave me so much more wisdom. One of my philosophies has always been making sure people are seen, heard, and valued. So in everything. So being, whether I'm bartending at the beach or if I'm a banquet manager or if I'm in the classroom or if I'm working with the Nexus and working with people from across the globe, it's making sure people are seen and they're heard. I think in leadership that's so important. In hospitality, you cannot be leading from behind your desk. You need to be there in the operation. And that's the values I think that you need to instill in your team whether, regardless of the size of the operation, is making sure that your team, first off, they're seen and you know who they are. You're call- you talk to them and know their name, know something about them, about their family. And and then making sure they're heard is also of of huge significance as well and make... 'Cause if they come to you with a problem, you have to listen. And I like to think I'm a much better listener than I am a talker and speaker. And I've tried doing that over my career to, to not only learn more about people, but if they have problems and things that they need help with that's your job is to help them with that. And if they come to you and they keep talking about the same problems and you're not doing anything about it, you're gonna lose credibility and you're not doing your job as a leader. So making sure they're seen, they're heard, they're valued and cared for. If you can do those things internally with your team, those are the same traits and they're gonna take out to our guests, and that's exactly what you want. So I would say those things. And then the last part of that is empowering them. And once they know they're seen, they're heard, they're valued and and you empower them to do their job to the best of their ability and let them do their job. When you're... When I was younger, there was so much stress in making sure the operations are great and putting in those 100-hour weeks, but I think over time you learn just help develop your people. 'Cause without that you're gonna have a really stressful life and and it's gonna be quite difficult. So you have to trust your people with- at. And so those are things I think those are the things over time that I've gotten a little bit better at

Lan Elliott 11:27

Go. Good thing

Tim Flohr 11:32

I would say patience at times. I think that I see, when I see something, I see an opportunity, I think and I act fast. And sometimes I expect other people to see where I'm going and stay up with me and people can't read minds. And that's something I've tried to continuously work on, is expressing and talking about my, my my goals and w- where I see something going. And even with w- in business in general, my, my mind is always going and I might be thinking of something for six months, but when I ex- when I tell somebody about it, I can't ex- you know, expect they've had that six months to process it. They're learning it on the spot. Something I'm getting better at and I continuously work on is leading at the speed of trust and making sure people trust you and they trust where you're going and they trust where you're taking them and where you're leading the organization. And that way everyone's working together, and I think that's probably something I'll always continue working on

Lan Elliott 12:32

Listening. I think it is such an underrated leadership skill, being able to really listen to what people are saying. And it takes slowing down and really focusing on what is this person trying to communicate to me, because it might not be what the words are. There might be something more behind that. also just slowing down a bit so everyone catches up to you, So thank you for sharing that.

Tim Flohr 12:57

And, it goes back to something somebody said to me when I was, like, 16 or 17 with Marriott, when I was with them. And they said, "When you're talking to somebody," they said, "Make sure that they know that they're the most important that's the most important thing in your life at that moment is them and listening to what they're saying." And so that's guided me throughout my career and in those interpersonal, those one-on-one or the small group meetings and conversations that I have, is making sure I'm not distracted by cell phones, I'm not distracted by what I'm going to say or do next or whatever. I'm focused on what I'm doing at that moment, and I think that focus has really helped me a lot in my career

Lan Elliott 13:42

To develop over time because it is very easy today to be distracted. I wanted to touch on some of the advantages of giving back because you do a number of things, including Hospitality Nexus and we serve together on the Hospitality Tech Show's board. Can you share some of the advantages and lessons you've learned by working on nonprofit or volunteer initiatives? I'd

Tim Flohr 14:14

say, and yes we both serve on the the board with the Hospitality Tech Show, which encourage everyone to check out. They're doing amazing things in the hospitality tech sector. But, going back, I think probably my first part in nonprofit was just being on a church council. And then later with CRE that's the Council on the Hotel, Restaurant, and Institutional Educators. And now I sit on the board with ISTE, which is the International Society of Travel and Tourism Educators. And I think the important, one of the important things about serving on nonprofit boards is it puts you in with people that you would not ordinarily maybe come in contact with through your normal business. So it expands your your network there. And it's different being in an organization where no one really reports to anyone else. You're all working towards a common goal and, but there's really no leader in there, so you're all having to work together and it's it is, And sometimes I think in our own business or I think it's, if you're, whatever your personality type may be some people are alphas and everything else and wanna just do, do and do it their way. It makes you really sit back and and listen more, to other people and know that sometimes your role is simply to help other people succeed especially in these nonprofits and helping startups and to be successful. And it really is a different skill set I think, but it's an invaluable one and one I love doing that. That's what I would say

Lan Elliott 15:44

And I do love the opportunity to work alongside people that you maybe wouldn't have had the opportunity to before and have met some of the most incredible people by, by being on board. So thank you

Tim Flohr 15:51

for sharing that. Yeah. I guess in a follow-up, just on those nonprofits you really have to learn how to value other people's time much more. When people are volunteering for something, you wanna make sure that's meaningful. I've seen a lot of times in different organizations where you're a volunteer and they, if they don't-- if they're not organized and it feels like you're wasting your time, that's really something that's a little off-putting. So make sure that you have your stuff together when you're doing this, and valuing everyone's time is so important

Lan Elliott 16:20

I like to talk about learning from setbacks because it's said you learn more when things don't go well than when things go perfectly. And I'm curious if you've experienced a setback that taught you a valuable lesson,

Tim Flohr 16:34

Certainly. I've failed a lot more than I've ever succeeded in life. I've failed at things. And I think the thing you realize is that disappointment that is sometimes a turning point, not really the ending point. I- if a door closes or if someone says no to you, or you have a business deal that falls through that's not the end of the world. That's just saying, "You know what? I've gotta pursue something else." Some people I know get bogged down with with setbacks and you really can't. You need to bounce back quickly. So I'm always looking at what's next after that. If a job doesn't come through or if, if a personal relationship, anything like that, it's just not meant to be and you can't force things. So I think the more we try to force things in life, the more difficult it is, and that leads to that stress and that leads to so many different issues. It's just accepting what it is and making a plan and moving forward

Lan Elliott 17:28

Your boxing skills that you learned when you were 15 that's what came to me when

Tim Flohr 17:35

you said you just need to get back up again and keep going Well, I love that. I love it for one re- there's a winner and there's a loser in every bout. And and you go in there and you do the best you can and you're either gonna win or you're gonna lose, but you have to leave it all in the ring and you have to try hard. But the thing about boxing and just like in, in business and in your day-to-day is it's the day-to-day in the gym. It's doing the work that's not the glamorous stuff that's going to keep you moving forward. It's the daily grind. Waking up and getting into your routine and working. And I just get up without an alarm clock now at 4:00 AM and I just start. And it... But it's different now. I'm not starting with road work like I was when I was 16. I'm starting, following up emails and working on different business proposals and figuring out how I can add value to the business and then to nonprofits I'm working with and everything else. But, after that after the, the bell rings and you're either you win or you lose, it's or you gotta focus on what's next. And I think that's the same approach in business and and in life, just continuously moving forward regardless of how, what the outcomes are

Lan Elliott 18:40

necessary in our industry, which can be very cyclical, and we find ourselves in situations that maybe are not of our making. We have downturns, we have pandemics, we have all sorts of things. So that idea of getting up and moving is really important Touch on developing a network because it's so important, especially in what you're doing with Hospitality Nexus or hospitality internships originally. You have students who need internships, but you don't really have them until the industry then embraces and offers opportunities to students, and that requires building relationships with people. But a lot of people think of developing a network as something that's really hard and intimidating, and how do I go about doing this? Could you share how you develop your network in a way that works for you?

Tim Flohr 19:38

I would say I, I treat I, I don't think of it like networking so much as I do as just building relationships with people. I don't walk into networking events and just go... I don't base that on how many business cards I hand out and how many connections I get or on LinkedIn how many connections I get on there. It's really about building those relationships. And and but you have to put yourself in those positions where you're able to do that. I might go to a conference, like I was in a conference a few weeks ago in Las Vegas for CRE. And it really is all about those, those conversations that happen in the lobby, those conversations over coffee and things like that where you're... and again, it goes back to listening a lot. I listen a lot more than I talk. So I like to hear about what drives people, what people are passionate about. And then I take that and I, and that I... Then what I know in the future if I know someone else who's looking for that same skill set where these people might be able to make a good connection, I introduce them. And that was one of the reasons why we transitioned from Hospitality Nexus or Hospitality Internships into the Nexus, is 'cause we needed a platform to be able to do that. We have so many great people doing amazing things in industry and academia. It's just getting them together on the same platform. It... You might have a great conference and you're networking and everything's going great, but then how about the other 360 days until the next conference? What's going on then? Yeah, you can email each other a lot. You can get together on LinkedIn and everything else. But we wanted to create a platform that, that seamlessly brings people together students, educators, industry everybody. That's why we created the platform that we did. And and sometimes that you meet people and they might not necessarily be a great fit for an idea or a project you're launching then, but then you keep it and it may be helpful for someone else in the future or for you in the future as well. It's all about just building relationships, and that's just at, at its purest sense.

Lan Elliott 21:36

as building a network, but building relationships. And as you talk with people and you learn what they're passionate about, how do you remember all these little nuggets of information about each person? Do you have a trick for doing that?

Tim Flohr 21:53

Yeah. Yeah. For me it's just it's pure... And that sounds like oversimplifying, but it's just listening to people and being engaged and not focusing on what I'm gonna say next or how, oh how's this person gonna play into my business plan right now? And some people will think that if if it doesn't fit in right now, then I'm kinda tuning it out." You're listening and you generally engage with people and you just don't forget that. And then you follow up. I always follow up with a email introduction and invite them into the Nexus. But I think it's just a, a function of how engaged and how focused you are on what you're, on, on who you're talking to. If I go back to that philosophy of whenever I'm talking with someone, I want them to know that at that moment they're the most that's the most important thing in my life at that moment. So if you do that, you're not gonna forget. And and I think that's what builds more meaningful relationships over time.

Lan Elliott 22:45

Absolutely touch on public speaking I've seen you speak on the stage about hospitality nexus in the past. So it might be speaking on stage at a conference, but it also might be standing in front of the classroom teaching students. How important is the skill of public speaking in elevating your career, regardless of what aspect of the industry you're in? How did you go about developing your public speaking skills?

Tim Flohr 23:17

public speaking is not something that comes natural. It never came naturally for me. It still doesn't. I can remember I think it was in like 2011, 2012 at Drexel when the first time I had to get up in front of a lot of people and talk, I was physically sick before that and how nervous I was. But I think it-- Because prior to that, I was in operations, and when you're in operations, you're not on a stage speaking a lot of times. You're not presenting to hundreds of people at a conference. You're You are operating within your four walls and dealing with dealing in with vendors and employees and guests. So it's a complete different mindset and something if you don't that, that is something that, that you of course build that skill set over time. And in order to do that, you have to keep practicing, you have to keep doing it. But public speaking, when you're presenting at a, in a meeting, that's public speaking. When you're pitching your idea to your boss, it's public speaking. All the... And then you work your way up to these conferences and everything else. But a- again, it goes back to making sure people think and know, and they know that they're the most important thing in your world at that moment, and that's difficult to do at scale a lot of times. It's difficult to be on stage and make everyone feel as though they're the most important person when you're doing that. So that's been a, a change in my mindset and how I deliver presentations. And I think I first started in the classroom. In the classroom, you're able to see immediately if people are, if students are checking you out or if they're doing if they're not paying attention, and that's where I'm able to I make a very fluid classroom where I can then, they know I, I'll, I will call on them at any moment because that's, I'm trying to build that skill set for them in hospitality. So when I'm in front of a class, I can easily stop and point to somebody and say, "Hey what do you think of this?" I can't do that when I'm on stage, and that's a little bit of a mindset shift. And people will tell you I, I am a- again much more comfortable in in small group settings and individual settings than I am on a public stage. However, there's great value to that, and I think as I move deeper into my career, I know that how important it is to be able to articulate things on stage. But that's not while at the same time knowing that's not leadership at scale. And I think in order to do that with the teams that you're working with, and it still goes back to my operations days, making people s- feel seen, heard, and valued. If I can make, have the employees feel that way, that has a much greater impact when they're able to make sure the guests can feel that way as well. That's basically my public speaking. It's so important, and it's something that you'll never, ever be perfect at. So it's something you're always gonna continue working on.

Lan Elliott 25:54

It's hopefully not something that makes you nauseous anymore

Tim Flohr 25:57

It doesn't. I don't I don't throw up anymore before I go on stage, which is good

Lan Elliott 26:03

Progress. I love that What is a common misconception? Something that people either don't know about you or maybe is a if people were to describe you.

Tim Flohr 26:17

I think I've probably let the cat out of the bag here, but I'm much more of an introvert than than most people would think. And, And I'm generally interested in people. And that's never, that has never stopped from my first day in, in in the industry. I've always enjoyed learning about people. And while I have sometimes felt like an outsider in higher education I've never felt like an outsider in the hospitality industry. And I'll even take it at times I'm the person at Target, for example, that if someone is lost and looking around for something, I'll just jump in and, "Can I help you, ma'am?" And I don't even work there, but I just, I wanna... That's just who I am. I'm generally interested in people and but at the same time I have a work ethic that there's a lot of people out there that work as hard as me, but there, I don't think there's very many that, that outwork me and especially in, in putting my best foot forward every day and always continuing to move forward. I've never lost that from my younger days of, in sports and boxing and I've never forgotten the true spirit of hospitality and making people feel welcome, p- making people feel special and cared for. That's something that I still feel to this day

Lan Elliott 27:36

sharing that. And I love the story about walking up to people who look lost in a store that you don't work at and helping them out. It is definitely the spirit of hospitality that comes no matter where you are Well, Tim, we're coming to the end of our conversation. I have two last questions for you. The first is, what advice would you give to your younger self? Let's say 22-year-old Tim

Tim Flohr 28:02

Th- that's a great question. For those of you watching this who knew me when I was 22, you know that I was either working either as a, at a bar, as a bartender or managing, or I was sitting at the bar on my day off. And what I would tell that young man is this that you're playing the long game here. And just because you don't get that job, and just because you don't have this opportunity, or this person says no and doesn't wanna be a part of your life, whatever, that's not the end. I often think of this Billy Joel song, Vienna. And in it, it says "Slow down, you're doing fine. You can't be everything you wanna be before your time." Things are gonna happen in life, and you need to just let it happen. And it-- I was the person sitting at the bar talking to people and en- enjoying life, and I was also the person who has about 20 different business plans written on the back of bev naps, and I still have a lot of those bev naps now. But if you would've said to that 22-year-old, "I'll bet you, a, a million dollars," if they would've bet me a million dollars about being a a, a professor and earning a doctorate and starting a business, I would've probably taken them up on that bet, and I would've lost. I guess that's the thing is never stop moving forward. Never just play the long game and know that, that things are going to work out in the end. And don't be so desperate to try to... when you're that old or young trying to desperately figure out what you're gonna become, and then you hit a point in life where you figure out that you're never finished becoming. So you just keep learning, growing, and being the best version of yourself

Lan Elliott 29:45

I love that. You never finish becoming. I think that's a beautiful way to think about our journeys. Well, Tim, you've shared a lot of great insights from your journey. Do you have any final advice for our audience, keeping in mind that the mission of our show is around empowering personal success? What final nugget of advice?

Tim Flohr 30:05

I would say final advice, I, great advice that I received when I was coming up in the industry is it's better to make a wrong decision than no decision at all. I'll always remember that advice. And so that and don't wait until everything feels completely safe or feels like a sure thing before you take action. This story is gonna ca- sound somewhat embarrassing, but two weeks ago, I'm in a conversation with one of my business-- with one of my partners, and I brought up the line. I said, "You know the old saying, 'Measure once, cut twice.'" And and they said, "Tim, I think you have it the other way around." I said, "No, it's measure once, cut... Isn't it?" They said, "No, it's measure twice, cut once." And I was like, "Wow, I-- man, that explains a lot." Maybe I learned it wrong when I was young, but I've never been afraid of going for something and taking that first move. When you make that first move that-that's better than being frozen by analysis paralysis and everything else you wanna do in life. Just do it. If you wanna write that book, write the book. If you wanna go up to someone and and approach them for a job or you want this opportunity, go for it. Some people are gonna say no and some people are gonna say yes, but don't ever be afraid to go for it. And I think because I look back on my life and if every time a door slammed or I lost a job for this or an opportunity for that or a promotion, if I stopped dead in the water there and just... I would have never been where I am today. So that's the beauty of life, and I think that's what makes it fun and just keep moving forward at all times.

Lan Elliott 31:40

sharing your story with us, many stories actually with us, and for your wisdom and for all you do for the next generation of our industry. I really appreciate you.

Tim Flohr 31:52

thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Lan Elliott 31:55

Absolutely. And for our audience, if you've enjoyed this interview with Tim, I hope you will go to our website where you can find many more interviews with hospitality industry leaders.