Dr. Lisa Cain, Professor, FIU Chaplin School of Hospitality & Tourism Management, interviewed by Lan Elliott

Lisa’s insights remind us of the value of constantly learning.  She encourages us to stay curious, whether through reading trade publications, taking a continuing education course, or pursuing a hobby that makes us happy.  She also urges us to stay active, because a moving body cultivates a sharp mind.  Above all, trust the process, know yourself, and stay true to your core values.

Transcript

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Lan Elliott 0:01

Hello, and welcome to It's Personal Stories. My name is Lan Elliott on behalf of It's Personal Stories, the podcast dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. And today I am delighted to have my friend Dr. Lisa Kane with us. She is professor at FIU Chaplin School of Hospitality and Tourism Management. Welcome, Lisa.

Lisa Cain 0:28

Thank you so much, Lynn. I'm so excited to be here today

Lan Elliott 0:31

I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while, and let's jump into it. You were recently promoted to full professor at Florida International University. Only the third woman who is a full professor, so congratulations, Lisa.

Lisa Cain 0:49

Thank you. Yes, it's an honor to be the third female in the Chaplin School to earn the rank of full professor. it's exciting. It's a milestone and I couldn't be more excited to hold this position.

Lan Elliott 1:01

Love it. let's talk about your career journey. You have a unique story, and much of it is in hospitality academia. Can you share some of the inflection points in your career, and if there was a particular factor or factors that contributed to your success?

Lisa Cain 1:21

Sure. My career is unique in that I shook going into the hospitality industry. My family, all of my immediate family, holds at least one degree from the Chaplin School. My mother, my father, my brother, and I. And I was an I was an English literature major in undergrad. I did not wanna go into hospitality. When I graduated, I worked for a startup company in California. It was a healthcare technology company, and when it ran out of funding in two thousand and nine, I moved back to South Florida, which is where I grew up, and I didn't know what I wanted to do. If I wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer. And my mother said, "While you're figuring yourself out, why don't you go get a job at a restaurant just to, have some income?" And And I did, I did, and I fell in love with the hospitality industry. And then I decided to pursue a master's degree at FIU, and and that's where I met my mentor and dear friend, Dr. Miranda Carroll-Limbach. She was one of the other three female professors in the Chaplin School. And she asked in my very first class at FIU if anyone was interested in pursuing a PhD, and I raised my hand and she said I'm gonna try to talk you out of it. But if I can't do that, then I'm gonna help guide you and help you succeed." And the rest is history. That is amazing. And you've been teaching ever since. Pretty much at FIU. Yes. So So I taught during my PhD program at UNLV, and I tailored my teaching interests to both my research stream and to what I knew might be needed at FIU. And so from there, I I started teaching at FIU in two thousand and fifteen, and I've been teaching there ever since with a couple of guest appearances back at UN- and I'll be in San Ignacio, so. Amazing. It sounds like you made a plan, sounds like you're a planner, and that you have a track for yourself and I think that's wonderful I wanted to talk about continuous growth because so many of our leaders talk about curiosity and continuous growth as being really important to their success and I'm curious if there is a skill you wish you had learned earlier in your career

Lan Elliott 3:50

and if so, how did you develop it?

Lisa Cain 3:53

So I So I think the thing that I would most recommend early career leaders search search for is continuing education, as you said, right? I think that competence leads to confidence, and the more you know, the easier it is to grow. And so constantly learning, staying abreast of what the of what the topic du jour is, whether it's AI or sustainability and really understanding how that fits not just into your role but into the larger picture of the industry certainly helps you be a more thoughtful leader. I think also trying to grow your EQ, your emotional intelligence, to have more compassion and understanding so that you can understand when your followers, when your peers, when your leaders are struggling so that you can step in and really help them succeed and help them grow is also a really invaluable tool. And I think contrary to popular belief, that is something that you can hone and cultivate through awareness and understanding. And so those are the two major things I would say early career aspiring leaders should really emphasize on. I do think there are young people, and I was one of them that graduated and thought, "Oh, I'm done with learning and now I just have to know how to do my job."

Lan Elliott 5:19

But there is definitely something about people who continue to ascend in this industry that they continue to find new ways to challenge themselves and learn new things and grow. But I think developing that EQ can be really hard to do. Do you have any advice on things people can do to grow their EQ?

Lisa Cain 5:42

Absolutely. So So first I would say understanding what it is that drives people's emotions, right? So that does requiring, require continuing education. But understanding when when people are upset, learning to read people, watching for facial cues, not being buried in your phone, but actually engaging with people will help you first understand when they are upset, when they are happy, and then taking taking that next step to understand how to promote the happiness or mitigate the sadness if there's a rough day, right? If somebody's pet died or a family member is sick, how can I step in and help you? How can we work through this together? What can I do to support you? And it's just being aware of your surroundings. It requires stepping away from the cell phone, which is challenging. But I But I think that those are things that over time really help us become more thoughtful individuals, and especially in this very people-centered industry, it's important not just to understand the people who we work with, but the people who we're serving as well.

Lan Elliott 6:57

I think that, that is so true, and we've gotten used to every spare moment you've got your face down in your phone, checking email, reading something, looking at a video, and it can be really tempting to fill every moment with that. But that skill of reading the room and tapping into, what am I getting back from other people? How is what I'm saying landing with them? I think that is a really incredible skill. Another skill people think you're either born with it or you're not, but can be developed, is the skill of public speaking. And it could encompass many things. It could be talking on a podcast. It could be a keynote at a conference, but it could also be speaking up in a meeting or teaching class like you do with your students. I used to think as long as I knew my material and I had a lot of knowledge about my subject matter, and I missed the importance of having my message land with impact. I'm curious your thoughts on the importance of public speaking and how do you go about developing it?

Lisa Cain 8:09

I think it's multifaceted. I it's multifaceted. I think think that some of us are more comfortable than others, right? Public speaking is certainly the number one fear as reported by every news outlet that people have in this country and probably the world. But I think that it can be developed over time, and and I think it does start with knowing the material, right? If you're confident in what you're saying, it certainly helps everything land better and it helps it become more well-received. But it's also a craft, right? There are people who are extraordinary public speakers who can captivate five thousand people at a time, and there are people who are terrible public speakers who may be content matter experts. So what differentiates the two, I would argue, is practice and identifying those people who you think are good public speakers and trying to mimic them, right? So for example, my husband is an excellent public speaker and I do try to emulate him in how I speak because he's thoughtful and he's engaging and he makes eye contact. And so my observation of how he speaks informs how I try to speak when I am with a larger audience in a, symposium setting or in the classroom or at a conference

Lan Elliott 9:28

I have had the opportunity to meet your husband. He is very impressive, even one-on-one and I can only imagine what he's like on stage I'm curious if there are things that you do that you think that works for him, but for me, I'm gonna do things slightly differently"?

Lisa Cain 9:46

I think I think that just helps helps with an authentic presentation of the information, right? So I can't be him, and it wouldn't work if I tried to completely try and emulate his speaking style because what he talks about is not what I talk about, right? I'm not a golf expert. And what I talk about and how I say it needs to still be authentic to who I am. But making making sure that I make that sustained eye contact, making sure that I'm looking at each person in the room and giving them their due is something that he does that I can do while still having my voice, right? And I used to speak a lot faster, and it's a constant reminder in the back of my head to just slow it down a little, take a breath. It's okay if you don't rush through it, and that's something that I learned through watching his speaking style. So it's noting the things that you can adopt while still being true to who you are and making sure your personality shines through that I think is really valuable.

Lan Elliott 10:48

And you mentioned practice, which is such an important piece of developing confidence in public speaking. I learned recently that you cannot learn or be taught confidence in public speaking. You gain it over time by doing it again and again. But practicing before is a really important piece, and I'm curious if you're naturally a confident speaker or do do you get nervous?

Lisa Cain 11:16

I do get nervous. Although, again, going back to my husband, he said if it's nervous- if you're nervous, it means that you care, right? So having nerves is the body's way of saying, "I care about this, and I really want to do well." And so I do think ahead of time that practicing ahead of time just gives you those speaking notes, right? It makes you aware of what you wanna say and how you wanna say it. The more the more that you practice a speech, the more authentic and the more fluid it becomes. They... they have suggestions where you do the power stance before you speak, the Superman pose, to really just let your body be prepared. But having a warmup or a, sort of a ritual you go through before you get on stage certainly helps with the butterflies. And time, time, right? The more you do it, the more confident you become. You can get notes from people as to how to improve it. You can watch yourself Oh, that's a hard one. It is. The really good speakers do it. They watch themselves back but it does take a lot of courage. It does, but it also helps you to understand how you're How you're making contact, your eye contact, your ticks, how much hand movement you have. A lot of us use our hands too. I know I'm guilty of that. We use our hands too often when we're speaking, which can be distracting and take away from it. I used to play with my hair a lot. I used to only wear my hair in a ponytail least spoke so that I wouldn't when I public spoke so that I wouldn't play with it. since I've since tempered that habit, but it's only through watching myself and getting feedback from others that I and getting feedback from others that I learned learned that was something that I did habitually that also detracted from how my speech was received.

Lan Elliott 12:54

You mentioned watching yourself back, practicing, and asking for feedback. Those are all really good ways to improve as your public speaking. And I do think just keep doing it because it gets better, like a lot of things. Wanted to to switch over to the advantages of giving back because in addition to FIU, you're the co-founder of Hospitality Nexus with Tim Flor, who was recently on our show. Can you share some of the advantages and lessons you've learned through your volunteer time?

Lisa Cain 13:28

Absolutely. I would I would not be where I am today if somebody didn't give back to me, and I think that as important as it is to have good mentors so that you can advance in your career, it's equally as important to be a mentor when you have that position and to make sure that you're advancing the industry, right? Because the more we the more we give back, the more the industry grows, the better a place it is, the more enticing it is to new talent. And And at the end of the day, the goal is to have the best the best industry for our customers, for our employees, and for ourselves. And so giving back allows me to give a little piece of my learned experiences to the next generation who are going to go out into our industry and make it even better than it already was

Lan Elliott 14:22

That's amazing. But how did you and Tim come up with this idea of starting Hospitality Nexus? Tell me the story behind that.

Lisa Cain 14:30

So Tim is a very Tim is a very big idea man. He has these fantastic forward-thinking ideas to help really connect our industry, and it started with the why, right? We have this gap where we have academia really really trying to advance the next generation of hospitality professionals. We have industry asking for a talent pipeline. We have the students who need a specific thing, but who are shifting in how they receive information and what keeps their attention and what excites them about being part of our industry. And so we noticed a gap between the links between industry and academia and the future workforce. And so we decided to create a platform where not only could we have internships that are meaningful and really connect industry with academia and the student, the future hospitality professional, but it also also serves as a platform for continuing education, right? Because our current workforce would benefit benefit from continuing education and professional development, and the future workforce will benefit from the same thing. And so we decided the why is to help and elevate our industry through education and through connectivity

Lan Elliott 15:56

I love that. And I do think that connection between academia and industry is so important, and incorporating real-world examples and lessons. And I was just having a conversation, and it's not so much about having industry parachute in for guest speaking. It's wonderful to be able to have relationships where academia can reach out and say, "I'm gonna be lecturing on this. How are you using it these days? What does good look like? What are you looking for as a red flag?" And just be able to share the application of things as well. And so I love that idea of connecting academia industry, and the idea that could truly benefit the students and future generations of our industry. So thank you for what you do.

Lisa Cain 16:52

I think, it's also part of this, this personal stories environment, right? Because it's wonderful for us to ask industry what's going on, and it's important for us to tell the students. But those lived experiences brought into the classroom through the guest speakers, through the industry professionals, gives another voice. It gives another lens. It gives another opportunity for the students to connect through that similarity attraction paradigm. That person looks person sounds like me. like me, That person sounds like me. That person has an experience that I had, and so I can see that I can make it too because they made it, and we have something in common, is invaluable. And then of course, our ability to bring our students out into the industry and let them see it firsthand after we've told them, "This is what's going on. This is what you need to know." All of that creates a more enriched and meaningful classroom environment for our future hospitality workforce.

Lan Elliott 17:46

I love that. Thank you so much for the work that you and Tim are doing.

Lisa Cain 17:51

Thank Thank you.

Lan Elliott 17:52

You You touched a little bit on representation, and I wanted to pivot to talk about one of our shared passions, which is advancing women in hospitality leadership. You teach a fantastic course on women in leadership at FIU, and I have been honored to present to your class in the past. One of the things we've talked about is the assertiveness double bind, which is a lot of syllables, but it is a challenge women leaders face, and it's this perception that you can't be both competent and kind. For example, leaders who are too nice can be thought of as they're not going to be a good leader, they're not gonna be a strong leader. And on the other hand, you find women who are very strong and decisive are viewed as being less likable and difficult. And it's interesting. It's not just, for example, men who have these perceptions about women. Women have these perceptions about women as well. And I'm curious about your thoughts on this, and it's a bit of a tightrope where you have to walk right down the middle.

Lisa Cain 19:02

It is it is an industry issue. It's actually a universal or at least countrywide issue that we are experiencing in terms of this tightrope walk that female leaders have to do. We find often in the literature that women are are often given opportunities to lead when there's nothing left to lose for an organization. The glass cliff jobs. And the glass cliff, yes. And so I think the challenge that we have to overcome, unfortunately, is cultural in addition to the business the business challenges, right? Because stereotypically stereotypically and culturally, women are more meek, they're more timid, they're more nurturing. That is the maternal role in a patriarchal relationship in the home, right? And so does that carry to the workplace? How does that carry to the workplace? And if a female leader takes on a more assertive role in the workplace, does that make her not culturally aligned with our perceptions of what women are meant to do, right? And I think we're seeing a shift away from that as more women are entering the workforce, and I'm hoping that broken rung where women can't ascend past mid-level management gets fixed so that we can ascend more progressively. I think we're seeing more, Human Human resources rules that allow for parental leave so that women and men can stay at home without being penalized for having a child and can still advance in their careers when they come back to work. But unfortunately, all of this takes time, and that tightrope is something that we may have to continue to toe the line of until the workplace catches up catches up and culture catches up with how business can and should operate.

Lan Elliott 20:59

Yes. I think it will take time. I do think a great representation of this tightrope was in the recent Barbie movie. The famous monologue from that movie is such a great demonstration of this tightrope that women have to walk, and it is just an incredibly truthful and funny, but also a little bit sad Way of looking at the world, but I think perhaps comedy and time will help us move forward as in general. It's not just the hospitality industry, it's, as you mentioned, it's very broad.

Lisa Cain 21:40

And if you haven't seen America Ferrera's monologue, please go watch it on YouTube.

Lan Elliott 21:44

It is a great monologue. Highly recommend.

Lisa Cain 21:46

So good.

Lan Elliott 21:48

More broadly, what are some of the key leadership skills that are generally underrated? When I was coming up, this was called soft skills, which I think needs a rebrand. We need to rebrand soft skills as critical leadership skills. You had touched on EQ, emotional intelligence, but what are some of the key leadership skills that generally people don't focus on, don't think are as important as maybe they really are? And what skills should people be developing that people miss because they just don't realize that's going to be something that is more important as you move up in organizations?

Lisa Cain 22:30

I think I think that it's all of the skills, right? Because the technical skills are easy- Critical leadership skills right? Because- Critical leadership skills. yes, the critical leadership skills. Sorry. all of the technical skills for a job are all of the technical skills for a job are easily learned. It's those critical leadership skills, the situational awareness of what is happening in your organization, the, that emotional intelligence of who's excelling today, who's having a harder time, how can I support the different people in my organization? How can I be aware of, C- C-customer situations, and how do I preempt or quickly solve for customer customer service failures, right? All of those things are not are not the technical skills. It's not learning how to work the Excel. It's not understanding how to, do a TPS report. It's really reading people. It's understanding what type of leadership is best for that given situation and that day, right? Because as a leader, you have to read not just the cultural environment of the organization, but the temperature of the room on that given day and see how you can bring everybody to their highest level of performance based on what's happening

Lan Elliott 23:55

Yeah, I I think that's true. And I think at the beginning, the technical skills are really important, and then I find around middle management, they become less important. Everybody has a base level of those technical skills, and it's the critical leadership skills that people are looking for when they're deciding who gets promoted, who gets elevated. And those skills are really hard to learn in school. You almost have to learn them I call it building the plane while it's flying, and you have to learn it as part of life experience, and it can be hard to understand that's what you need to be focusing on, not just getting better at your job.

Lisa Cain 24:37

I agree. I think that technical skills are Like the, like the, they get you in the door, right? That's the ticket to play. And it's the and it's the critical leadership skills that set you apart from the rest. And to your point, a lot of that is learned through experience, but we do try in academia to create simulations or give case studies to help you to help you learn about those experiences before you get to them in the real world, so that you're not caught flat-footed and have to learn through a service failure experience before you can excel. Absolutely. I think we need a course on dealing with bad bosses. What do you think about that? Is that a good life skill to have? I think I think it's a vital life skill. I think that it should be part of every leadership course, if not its own skill. skill. I think I think it's knowing when to cut your losses versus knowing when to stay the course and stick it out, right? And being able to read not just the person above you, but the people above them. And And all of that informs how you work within an organization, but it also starts with knowing yourself. Because if you know who you are and what drives you and what demotivates you, then you can decide if staying that course is worthwhile, right? right? You won't know that unless you know yourself well enough to know if the organizational fit is right for you, right?

Lan Elliott 26:08

Self-awareness is a really hard thing to develop... I think it's something that you develop over time, and I think some people maybe were faster to it than I was, but it is often cited as a critical leadership skill and often is the beginning of then becoming curious of, how can I get better at different things?

Lisa Cain 26:29

Yeah. Thank you. I agree. And I think it's only through experiences that you get to know yourself, right? It's a chicken and an egg kind of thing, right? I know I wanna be in hospitality, but maybe I don't know that I wanna be in hospitality marketing until I try hospitality finance and realize, "That was horrible. That's not gonna work for me. I need to do something more engaging," or maybe, "I need a front-facing job because I thrive through that personal experience with other people," versus, "I know I need to be back of house because those one-on-one experiences aren't for me, but this industry is truly my passion and I wanna make it better from the back office."

Lan Elliott 27:09

I love that And

Lisa Cain 27:10

And our industry is big enough to have space for everybody. That's one of the things I love about it.

Lan Elliott 27:17

Lisa, you work with a lot of young people. What advice would you offer to your younger self? Let's see, let's say 22-year-old Lisa. What would you want her to know, either advice that would've helped her or something that would've made her path easier?

Lisa Cain 27:38

I think the I think the first thing I would tell myself is that success is not linear, and the path from point A to point B is rarely, if ever, a straight line. And so embrace the curves as experiences. It will inform who you are, and we are who we are because of our past. So rather So rather than regretting something, use it as a learning experience to grow and to know yourself better in terms of what you like and what you don't like, what you will tolerate, and what is a hard line no for you. And And just trust the process. I know that's a very cliche saying at the moment, but it really is important to understand that eventually you will get to where you're going as long as you have the fortitude and you know yourself and you're true to your core values.

Lan Elliott 28:29

Beautiful. Thank you you Lisa so much for all the wisdom you've shared with us so far. Keeping in mind the mission of It's Personal Stories is empowering personal success, do you have any final advice for our audience who are looking to advance their careers?

Lisa Cain 28:49

I would say say please stay curious. Continue Continue to develop yourself, whether that's through reading trade publications or taking a continuing education course or just learning something new, Pursuing a pursuing a hobby that just makes you happy, because all of those things will help drive your career forward and keep you sharp and feeling good. And stay active stay active in addition to staying curious, because a a moving body moving body cultivates a sharp mind, and those are just, those are just, I think, two invaluable things that will help you succeed and excel in our industry, or any industry.

Lan Elliott 29:33

Incredible. I love both of those. Thank you so much, Lisa, for being on. I so appreciate all you do for the next generation, and also for the the entire industry because the work you do to bring everybody together and also inspire the future, our industry is so much better for you being in it. So thank you very much.

Lisa Cain 29:58

Thank you for having me, Miriam. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

Lan Elliott 30:02

And for our audience, if you've enjoyed this conversation with Lisa, I hope you'll go to our website. It's personalstories.com where you can find many more interviews with incredible hospitality industry leaders.