All Politics Is Local
All Politics Is Local
Tenants: Know Your Rights - Heather Hills Apts Case Study
This episode of All Politics Is Local MD Edition provides tenants in Maryland with resources they may need if their living conditions are not ideal. We interview Ms. Charlene Hall, Founder and President of the Heather Hills Tenants' Association in Temple Hill, MD, and Mr. Martin Mitchell, Housing Justice Advocate in Maryland.
Resources:
1. Charlene Hall, hallchar6@gmail.com, 301-437-3027 or 240-722-5319
2. Martin Mitchell, mitchellmartin1549@gmail.com, Martin for Laurel
3. Community Legal Services of Prince George's County, www.clspgc.org, 240-391-6370
4. Maryland Legal Aid 888-465-2468
5. CASA, Housing Justice Coalition, wearecasa.org/prince-georges-for-housing-justice, 866-765-CASA
6. NAACP Prince George's Branch, Carletta Lundy, Housing Chair, www.princegeorgesnaacp.org.
7. Housing Options & Planning Enterprises, Inc. (H.O.P.E.), www.hopefinancial.org, 301-567-3330.
Upcoming Events:
Rent Stabilization Documentary screening produced by Councilmember, Krystal Oriadha, Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 6:00 p.m., Busboys & Poets, 5331 Baltimore Ave., Hyattsville, MD.
Expungement Clinic/Mobile Job Fair/Medical Assistance/Immigration Assistance sponsored by Martin Mitchell, Saturday, October 26, 2024, 10 a.m. - 1 p.m., Laurel Branch Library, 507 Seventh Street, Laurel MD
Hi, welcome to another edition of All Politics is Local with me, your host, tamara Davis-Brown. Thank you for joining me today. I'm really excited because this is, I think, the first podcast that I am recording, that someone actually reached out to me and asked to be on the podcast. Generally, I solicit my guests on my own, and so I'm so excited that I have the pleasure and privilege of introducing Ms Charlene Hall. She is a resident of Heather Hills apartment in Temple Hills, maryland, and she is actually president of the Tenants Association. So today we also have joining Ms Hall is Mr Martin Mitchell. He is a housing justice advocate and he is also a member of the County, prince George's County Council, ritz Stabilization Work Group.
Speaker 1:So today's topic has to do with what I would call slumlords, what I would call irresponsible landlords here in Prince George's County, and we want to talk about landlords here in Prince George's County and we want to talk about, specifically, heather Hill's apartment, where Ms Hall lives, but also about the conditions of a lot of apartments here in Prince George's County that needs to be identified and corrected and action taken by our county government as well as state government, as well as anyone that has some authority over landlord, tenants, tenants' rights, rent, rent stabilization, all of those things. This has been a hot issue actually for a very long time. There have been a lot of tenants suffering under poor living conditions, and the pandemic actually heightened those concerns and, despite the living conditions, the rent continued to escalate, and so I am delighted that Ms Hall reached out to me, along with Mr Martin Mitchell, and asked to be on the podcast, and we're delighted to have them on. So, first of all, good morning, ms Hall. How are you today?
Speaker 3:Good morning, Tamara.
Speaker 1:How are you? I'm great. I'm great. Thank you for joining us today. Mr Mitchell, good morning. Thank you for joining us as well, good morning, good morning. So we're going to jump right in and let us know who you are and tell us a little bit about how you have become the president of the Tenants Association. I hear you actually started the Tenants Association at Heather Hill's apartment. Tell folks where Heather Hill is located all of that good stuff and just jump right into your story.
Speaker 3:My name is Charlene Hall. I'm originally from Washington DC, moved here, been here in Prince George's County for about 30 years, okay, and I've been here living as a resident at Heather Hills Apartments for about seven.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Been here for about seven years, and so I've been having a lot of um issues in my uh apartment. A lot of uh floodings, uh leaks, electrical problems, inoperable appliances, the uh rodents, the birds I have birds like in the kitchen in my vent vent Mold. Oh my God, it's just so many things. None of my appliances work, you know, so they just. I have been complaining about my refrigerator for four since last year. Wow, so finally it just they bought one from another unit because what they do is they, instead of them replacing the, the um the appliances, they move them around okay you know, they just move stuff around wow and so it finally went out on um august the 9th okay, and so heather hills?
Speaker 1:uh, tell people where heather hills it's in temple hills, temple hills maryland temple hills, maryland, off of fisher road. Okay, fisher road and Winkley Right, I know exactly where that is. Heather Hills used to be a really nice apartment complex. Back in the 90s. I had two really good friends a couple that lived in Heather Hills and then they moved into their first house in Fort Washington and another couple that moved actually out of the county. They moved to Stafford Virginia.
Speaker 1:So I'm really surprised to hear I know that the apartments have been around for a while, but I'm really surprised to hear that they have let that complex go down, because that used to be a popular complex and a lot of people used to. I think they even had a waiting list to get in a long time ago. So, yes, this was back in the 90s. Now this is. This was a while ago. So, yes, I'm really surprised. So you've been there seven years.
Speaker 3:And yeah, donaldson was here when I, when I moved and it's like it was going to be a pretty nice place to stay. And it seemed like it was going to be a pretty nice place to stay. I mean, I've even, you know, told other people about the apartment complex. A lot of people move here and everything but I didn't know that they had a lot of plumbing issues, like I mean, it was like always water like running down the hills from all, like we had a bunch of water Even like on days that it would get like cold, the water would freeze. We've had a tenant to fall, you know, because of that. You know water whatever. But they have major major water problems electrical problems, bats that I mentioned the bats.
Speaker 3:One of the tenants tenants, a couple of the tenants have um bats. Some of us have birds coming into our units it's just wow.
Speaker 1:So you said um, I was gonna ask you mentioned donaldson, is that? Is that the name?
Speaker 3:who? Yeah, I came in on Donaldson.
Speaker 1:Spell it when.
Speaker 3:I came in.
Speaker 1:Donaldson, donaldson, okay, d-o-n-a-l-d-s-o-n. Okay. So Donaldson was the owners. They were just the management, the management company. Okay, okay. And so who actually owns the apartments now and who manages the apartments now? One Wall.
Speaker 3:Communities own this property now, owns the apartments now, and who manages the apartments now? One wall communities on on this property now they were managing it also okay, but, um, they couldn't get stuff up. I mean they just nothing will pass. So they ended up going out and getting grady. Somebody called Grady Grady Management. So now Grady Management uh, just started managing on, uh as of um the 26th of August.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay, so so very recent, very recent, um you've got they just started, okay, um so when was the first time? So you've been there seven years. Did the issues that you're experiencing now, did they start immediately after you moved in or was it over time? When was when did you start to notice these poor living conditions?
Speaker 3:Well, actually it started immediately because, like when I went in, when I just it was, I was always like um, with my floors right, I didn't have carpet, I had like uh, uh floors down right and they just would always look like it was all lumpy like rocks or something under okay, and I was like I'm fleeing like this. And so, um, then later, you know, I started having these problems like with, um, you know, some of the floors coming up. I almost kind of uh, tripped elbows, flew up the hole or uh, you know the, uh, the, the laminated tile or whatever it is that they were put down. So come to find out, um, I come to find out. The unit was all. The unit had water issues, they was having plumbing issues and I started having like water coming down from my in my master bedroom and my hallway. It would come out. Come from, just start dripping out from out of the exhaust fan onto me.
Speaker 3:That's the first that I was like, yeah, water. And then when you put the bucket there, it was coming out yellow.
Speaker 3:And so it was like they just didn't want to take care of it. It was like I had to sit there for like weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, before they would even do anything. They wouldn't fix nothing. My floors, you know, before they would even do anything, they wouldn't do, they wouldn't fix nothing. My floors, the water, water would come and some black stuff would shoot up out the tubs and the toilets all onto the floors and they damaged the floors.
Speaker 3:And when they went to pick up my to redo the floors. It had old towel and stuff that was stuck to the floor. So all they did when they came, when they came to, uh, do the floors before I moved in, they just laid it over top of that the old floor wow so that's why the floors were lumpy like they were so, but what they had to do is they had to come, the contractors had to come in, take the floor up and they had to rebuild it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:They had to rebuild the floor.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:So I've been having problems with all my appliances, like right now my dishwasher's not working, my washer's in the drive, my door had been kicked in, my patio door still doesn't work, unsafety. You know, I've had water come in from the, went from one of my bedrooms where it started to um mold. I didn't know I didn't because I hardly go in that room, so I didn't even know that it was a bunch of mold that had set, you know, in the carpet and everything down the walls and everything. They have a lot. When I tell you a lot of the tenants, our problems are the mold, I mean mold and um water plumbing problem okay, we have that a lot and also with the um the mice and the rats mice, the bats and the health departments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's what I was. Yeah, you mentioned, so you mentioned the health department. That's good, I was. I was going to mention so you basically, for seven years you have been dealing with this issue, years you have been dealing with this issue, and so when did you start the Tenants Association and what progress have you made? Because it seems like you're still dealing with some of these issues now. When did you start the Tenants Association here at Heather Hills?
Speaker 3:In April, April 2024.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Because I met Shawnice. I met her March the 9th 2024 at Ebenezer. So it was April when I started.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so just because I know who Shawnice is and Mr Mitchell knows who Shawnice is, we should probably that she's part of the NAACP and you reached out to her at an event at. Was it at?
Speaker 3:Angela.
Speaker 1:Osborne and Trump Right. That was the debate that was held at Ebenezer AME Church during the primary. I believe the primary was in May and I think we had that. The primary was in May, I think we had that. I actually attended that as well and helped to publicize and get that debate. Well, it wasn't really a debate, it was a conversation because they had Right March, the 9th Right In March Right, and so you met Miss Shanice during.
Speaker 3:Shanice.
Speaker 1:Shanice Right During that event and did she give you some resources to try to start the Tenants Association? How did you actually know to start a Tenants Association and how to start to advocate for yourself? I'm proud and glad that you have spoken out and that you're speaking out and trying to get these living conditions addressed. But what resources did she provide or what resources did you? What further resources did you take to start the Tenants Association?
Speaker 3:Well, I actually had been. You know, I started out going to all the everything they had where they was trying to run for office or something like that. I was at all of them. Okay, I was. I saw Anthony moves, I was visiting everybody. But what she did was she had me to do a timeline Cause she came to me and she was like well, what's going on? I said, well, you know, I didn't know that they were going to be giving those little cards and stuff like that. But what happened was she knew someone at Casa, she knew George at Casa.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And so she had him to reach out to me and that's when they came. They ended up coming over here to the apartment complex and it started from there. Okay, I went around, knocked on 459 or 59 units and, um, you know, asking them to, you know, just to find out if they had the same, you know similar problems as as myself. Okay, and that first meeting was, it was a lot of people coming, they had their phones out. We met right here and now we have like about, I'm gonna say we probably have about because, see, all of them, we have probably about, I'm gonna say about 180 maybe, uh, tenants, okay, that are that are active in the association
Speaker 1:good, good, good, so, um, so what are your? What are like, are some of your primary goals? What's the first thing that you want to get fixed, for example? What's the second thing you know?
Speaker 3:give me, give me your top three things that the first thing, the first thing that we would like to get fixed here is the plumbing. We need the plumbing. They need to. And the second thing that we would want is all the appliances are outdated. Right, it's outdated and they're not only are they outdated, but I guess, from them being so old, they don't work. None of them are working Right. So we would want that. And the third thing that we would want well, that's what we want so far and then all the rent that they're trying to charge us for not being licensed, not ever even having a license, zero account. They want that to be zero.
Speaker 1:Okay, did you guys hold back your rent any, in other words, not pay your rent so that you can get these conditions addressed?
Speaker 3:We stopped paying our rent because that was initially what we had started out to do. We started not paying the rent because of the was initially what we had started out to do. We started doing not paying the rent because you know of the condition, right. But you know, when I started doing some little research, I found out that they didn't have a license at all. Okay, okay, so no, we don't. We don't pay no rent, okay right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, so I'm gonna bring in, because you mentioned CASA, you mentioned a couple other things. I'm going to bring in Mr Martin Mitchell again. Mr Mitchell is a former city councilman in the city of Laurel. He is a housing justice advocate and he is on the county's rent stabilization work group which just completed some work after a bill, a local bill here in Prince George's County has passed. Mr Martin, you've heard Ms Hall's plight over at Heather Heels. First of all, how common is that throughout Prince George's County have you had other tenant associations, other apartment complexes tenants come to you as a housing justice advocate having similar complaints?
Speaker 2:So I could say that it's a very common thing, and not just in Prince George's. I've also, you know, advocated and help people in Montgomery County and Howard County. You know, advocated and help people in Montgomery County and Howard County. But, you know, one of one of the biggest problems you know that I've really complained about is like, how are the landlords able to increase the rent, especially, you know, a substantial increase, when they haven't been able to maintain the property? Exactly, you know, and, and so what we've seen, even through the rent stabilization, we've seen Exactly flat response to a lot of them was you're not taking care of the property now.
Speaker 2:So you know what, what's the difference? What's the difference, you know, because, um, a lot of times, what what I've seen is they don't really fix the property collectively until, you know, something comes down on them, you know a governmental agency, um, the news, they, they hate being, you know, questioned in the news. And then, when the tenants stand together, right, when the tenants stand together, because at the end of the day, you know, the tenants, basically, you know, pay the mortgage that they pay, right, they don't just want to lose a large swath of tenants. So when the tenants stand together, they actually have, uh, they actually have a voice right, so so with.
Speaker 1:Heather.
Speaker 3:Heels.
Speaker 1:I would venture to say that they have no mortgage. Like I said, I had friends that lived in Heather Heels in the 90s and so I know that that place is probably paid for it and all the rent is just pure profit for them. So they probably have not. Probably they do have the money and have had the money to make the improvements that they needed. So how can tenants band together, like Ms Hall and Heather Heals Apartments have done, to create a tenant association? What resources are out there for tenants to get the living conditions that they deserve? You know they pay rent. You know rent is not cheap here in the DMV area in Prince George's.
Speaker 2:County.
Speaker 1:Ms Hall, do you have a two? I was going to ask you because you mentioned a bedroom that you don't use, so do you have a two-bedroom apartment?
Speaker 2:at Heather.
Speaker 1:Hills.
Speaker 3:Three-bedroom, you have a three-bedroom.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you mind sharing how? Much the rent was for that three-bedroom.
Speaker 3:The rent is, I would say, $1,900. $1,900. Okay, that's how much a three-bedroom is. To be honest with, just about everybody here has a different amount that they're paying. Like it could be a couple of people with one bedroom. They have different prices. Like I don't know what's going on. It's like everybody's least different. They just make it easy.
Speaker 1:Right, so, but my point is and this question is to Mr Mitchell you know you have a 400 something unit apartment and let's say the average rent is $1,500. That's more than enough to make some of the needed repairs that needs to be made. So what if there's a say, for example, there's someone else that's listening that lives in an apartment complex? What could they do to start a tenant association like tall? Who should they contact? Are you a resource for them? You know, provide us a little bit of guidance.
Speaker 2:You brought up a great point when it comes to like how old the building is. Right, so the building is 30, 30 something years old and so, like you said, you know, the mortgage or the loan probably would have been paid off. And you know, I think, that a small scale less people will be covered under rent stabilization every year. You know right what I would say as far as looking for resources, the best resources that I found in the county are community legal services. Ok, they do a lot of free legal help, legal aid Casa, of course, casa de Maryland, maryland. Casa de Maryland not only helps with immigrants' rights issues, but they member. You then have access to be represented, they have legal counsel, and so they could be very helpful.
Speaker 2:And you have the NAACP, and so Shanice, who you mentioned earlier, who made sure to pull me into Miss Charlene's dilemma, and several other apartments in that area you know she's with the NAACP they can be a resource.
Speaker 2:They have a housing arm, they have a legal redress team, you know, and there is a now there's the Prince George's, prince George's County Housing Coalition, prince George's County Housing Coalition, and so you know that coalition can, you know, help you out um give you tips on who to reach out to. And you know, one of the things that community legal service is really important is like when you first engage them, ask them if they're willing to. You know, have a know your rights clinic, um, and that's important because it informs all of the tenants on what their rights are as tenants. Because you know, just as a council person, one of the things that I've realized is like it's a lot easier to get things done when you're in office or you have friends in office, it's sad to say but, it's a truth, because you know, if I am Jody, 80 years old, I've been a resident for 30 years and I'm calling about a certain issue, they might not treat you accordingly, right.
Speaker 2:But then when you get on the phone and you enlist a city council member or a county council member, you know or you got the AG looking into things, right, like you're then going to receive a different response, a quicker response, right. But it shouldn't have to be that way. But when you guys stand together like unified, you know that's when, of course, the real power comes. And so, you know, I do say one of the first things we do is, if you're aggrieved by some of the conditions occurring in your community, I can promise you that there's neighbors that are probably experiencing some of the same things or similar. And so, you know, engage them, try to have a quick neighbor meeting where you guys could just talk about issues and, you know, see where you guys, see where you guys stand on things. You might find out that you guys have a lot more in common. And and when they you have a tenant association.
Speaker 2:I think management has to respond differently because it's like it's an association speaking, you know, who represent a large body of uh residents, uh, as opposed to just an individual resident who they can silence.
Speaker 2:Like I've been in the negotiations when it comes to negotiating with landlords, not just for, you know, rent increases, but you know, uh, housing. And one of the first things that they'll do, and it's understandable, they'll try to divide the residents, right. So they'll try to say, oh, we understand, we're going to meet with all of you individually, like, don't go on rent strike, you know, don't escrow, you know we're going to try to meet with all of you individually. And then, when they get with you individually, they try to adhere to every concern differently. Right, as opposed to where, if you guys were an association and you guys had a list of demands where you guys were like we're not, we're not, we're not changing our position until these five things change, you know what I mean. And so, like you know, that's a lot stronger than all these individual demands, that that they could just, you know, silence or or or you know um, make sufficient enough for you to go away. That's essentially what they want to do.
Speaker 3:So absolutely everything he said. We are, we, we've experienced everything that he just said I mean from the beginning to now is is all the things that we experienced. But see, I'm like poker, I don't fold, okay, and I demand to be heard, right, it's that simple. I demand it. You have to know who you are, you know, and not just let people do what they want. So all it takes is one, one person on that in that community that started and, like you said, you find that there's others who have the same problem as yours.
Speaker 3:And that's what happened when, when I did my first one, I did all the day. I had a day for them to meet. We met and I was like I could not believe even the attorney that came from Costa. He couldn't believe how many people had come to that meeting. And when they came, they came ready. All of them had their phones up. They looked with their pictures and video recordings and everything of all the plumbing, the mold, ceiling collapses. I mean like they came ready, you know. But, like I said, that's all the tape. But like everything he just said is absolutely true, because we've had, like I've met with the owner May the 22nd, you know, like I've met with the owner May the 22nd you know, and in a meeting they say, oh, we have some tenants that came and said that you guys, you know, they just try to play you against each other.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right, right. You know, but you, just you got to, you just got to demand to be heard. You know, because I've gotten in touch with several offices, like, like the councilman, the attorney general, westmore, you have to demand, just demand to be heard.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So you've gone all the way up to the top. You don't go to the governor of the state of Maryland, so you've gone all the way up to the top, you've gone to the governor of the state of Maryland.
Speaker 3:That's all right, Ms.
Speaker 1:Hall.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a meeting on the 6th with Nick Charles.
Speaker 1:Okay, very good, very good, you can do it.
Speaker 3:You know, when they say you can have it, you can have what you want. You can have it if you want it, bad or not.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And you just have to. You know Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, you got to be a fly. Just be a fly, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I'm with him. I'm going to work with everybody, with CASA, with whomever, naacp, whatever. If you fighting for a cause and you want you know you're trying to be heard, I'm with it. I don't care, I don't put the movie, you know, because I don't like to see people go through stuff like that. We have people on this property that's disabled, everything they don't even have, it's not even a handicap accessible on this property, nowhere. Yeah, okay, yeah, I just flew down the steps here. The stuff is still broke. I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:So it seems like, Ms Hall, you said that you guys started back in April or May, but you guys still have a lot of issues that you've got to get addressed.
Speaker 1:I believe the ADA requirements were even existent back in the 90s, so I'm a little surprised that they're not, that that has been addressed as well. So, mr Mitchell, besides getting the tenants together and having them come for a meeting, what would be some of the next steps that they do? Should they write a letter to their landlords or should they get in touch with county officials?
Speaker 2:That's a great one. So, of course, them coming together and recognizing them as an association, a group, is important. Organize first, organize first. Organize yourself first, get yourself organized, but after that you want to figure out what's important to the group. You know what is your bottom line, you know what are the demands, um and when.
Speaker 2:Once you have that together, it's important to go to the elected officials. You know, and I think to miss charlene's point, get your, get your group organized before you go outside, first, um, and then, as she said, enlist every person down to the central committee. If you don't know what the central committee is, you know it's an elected position where they help fill vacancies and help with elections. You know, and so a lot of people don't understand, enlist everybody. You know, your senator, your delegate. If you don't know where to find them, mdelectnet, you type in your address and it tells you who represents you anywhere in the state of maryland, mdelectnet. And so, yes, of course, getting yourselves organized. After you do that, uh, reaching out to your elected officials, um, and then what I? What I would do is I would get a petition to go around to the residents and, in lieu of or or in addition of sending a letter I would also send a petition to, so they know that, like you know, this is coming from the association, or you know 50, 60 of us, you know out of 80, or a part of this, and so they could just see the strength in numbers. Um, you know. So that that's probably what I would do, is, you know, organize ourselves, then figure out what, what our bottom line is, what our demands are, reach out to the elected officials, the community stakeholders, because sometimes it's not, sometimes it's not just elected officials, it's the other community stakeholders as well, and we shouldn't, we shouldn't, sell them short on how they can help because, as I tell you a lot of times, the elected officials and these community stakeholders, they will ask for your help when they need it. So we have to, you know, get in, the get in the habit of asking for help when we need it. You know, you know directly and you know very upfront about it.
Speaker 2:One of the things I wanted to say was we need to focus on legislation. I talk about direct action all the time, but I believe direct action is followed up with policy and I believe that we change people's lives through good, intentional policy. And one of the things that I realized was a lot of these issues happen because, for one, a lot of these issues happen because, for one, the very first issue that I dealt with in in in laurel was because the the people who had lived there 20, 30, 40 years didn't have written leases, right, and so you wonder. You wonder how someone can live in a facility of the building and not have a written lease. Like that was just something that, in 2021, I was bewildered by.
Speaker 2:So I reached out to a state delegate, mary Mary Lehman. Mary Lehman had asked a question directly to the state, basically asking them is there any type of requirement, you know, for a written lease? And what we had found out was in the state of Maryland, handshake lease agreements are legal you know's nothing, there's no binding, there's no binding law that, yes, that says you have a written, a written lease.
Speaker 2:And so this is something I've advocated for at the municipal level, at the county level, at the state level, because one of the things that that we had realized is a lot of the tenants when, when these extreme rent hikes came, they didn't really realize how much they were paying or how, like, how much the increase, how much, how little the increase that happened over the years, because they had no actual like lease to like look back on, we paid this one thing for this amount of years. And then you have this new owner saying it. You know, I, I don't, I don't see it. You know the the books aren't adding up. You know what I mean. And so those record keeping issues, of course, happen as well too. Or when they transfer ownership, it doesn't always happen, they don't always. You know, 51% of the apartment trying to be evicted from balances that existed from a prior management company. You know where the balances were incorrect, or they didn't have the actual lease like on file, and so it was kind of a big issue, you know. But I think that could change things.
Speaker 2:And maryland, you know, I know, a county council member has told me this directly. I've looked it up. You know, even federally, there's no requirement for them to one um mention when it has black mold to a potential buyer or renter, right. So, moving into a unit, you know there's no requirement for the landlord to be like this place has a mold issue or has had a mold issue. The same way I would have to dispose, I would have to disclose that.
Speaker 2:With lead paint, if there was a lead paint issue, I have to disclose that it's been remediated, it's been abated since, so on and so forth, and then there's really no requirement for them to fix it. The black mold issue issue, even though it could be a substantial health issue outside of getting remediated in court. You know what I mean, and so at that point the best thing would be to file a rent escrow case, meaning that you pay the court directly instead of paying your landlord, and then the court would make up the decision. Um on, you know if the landlord should be held accountable or not. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:They don't do rent escrows for most. Can you believe that they do not? You cannot get them.
Speaker 2:That's what we're talking about right there you cannot get one Right.
Speaker 3:That's what we're talking about. You can't get one.
Speaker 2:So we can go right back to the state and tell them hey, we need to add this, you know we, we need to add, you know we need to add.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm talking about, like I told Ms Singleton when she called me from Andrew Brunzo. I said we're not here just to get upgraded appliances and things.
Speaker 3:I said we need to change the law right that's what we here for we need to change it, we need, we need, as tenants, we need to be protected. So that's why I'm doing this, you know. And then another thing as far as the landlords I mean the tenants are concerned, I always say to the tenants and I've been saying this for years ask for a ledger. I have one since the time I moved in.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Just in case they had some little problems, I have my ledger Right. Okay, that tells you everything right there. So ask for one. You have a problem because you never know what they're doing. If they're doing something, they don't have no business. And then when you talk about the bookkeeping and all that, so if they did bookkeeping right now, charlene has a legend From the time I moved here up until today. I have a legend.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like that Maryland I've always I've always heard this. I have not been a renter in Maryland Maryland needs a tenants bill of rights law, basically because because you know, you hear like in the state of, and you hear even in DC, that tenants have rights and the tenants know their rights in DC and in New York and they make sure that they hold their landlords accountable. My daughter lives in California and she's leasing In California. She's leasing and she had the addendums to her leases included black mold notice, lead paint notice all of those things that Mr Mitchell just mentioned that we don't have here in Maryland is something that we need in Maryland. And so, mr Mitchell, as a housing justice advocate, are you advocating for this legislation at the state level? And you know, have you presented this as some local bills? Who would be sponsoring that and what are some of the legislative outcomes that we hope to get as a result of your advocacy?
Speaker 2:of your advocacy.
Speaker 2:So I would say that this is a very intricate issue housing right but everyone should live in adequate housing and anybody who's an attorney, especially a housing attorney, has probably heard these four words implied warrant of habitability.
Speaker 2:What that simply means is, when I'm renting a property, the renter should be free of unburdened with sound, unburdened with safety concerns, unburdened with health issues. That's generally what it means. What I have seen is I've seen those rights violated for years, and we just recently passed the Tenant Safety Act and so I'm sure Charlene or other members of the community, once it becomes available October 1, because the bill passed and that that basically allows people to file a joint lawsuit. So if I am in a building or an apartment complex and I know that my neighbors are aggrieved and have the same issue, you know we can find strength together and solidarity together and file a lawsuit against that management company, that apartment complex. And you know you best believe that things are going to get handled and settled a lot quicker if we do it as a joint suit, because prior to that you all had to do it individually, as individual cases.
Speaker 1:Okay, so is that local to Prince George's County or is that in the state of Maryland Statewide?
Speaker 3:It's October, october 2024, going to effect.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that is very important and it's been a conversation you've heard Juanica Fisher say that they supported it. The council supported it. Good calls. We passed rent stabilization and that's great. That's one thing that will help people's rents not go up tremendously, you know, not affect the rate of change. But when I say good cause, what that means is your landlord cannot evict you or cannot decide to not renew your lease for any reason. They need good cause. You have retaliatory evictions. Retaliatory evictions are very difficult to prove, Right. But if I am somebody like yourself and I organize a tenant association, Right, and that tenant association then causes me problems, hey, you know, from a business perspective I might want to get rid of the problem.
Speaker 2:Right, I get that I understand, that you know but you know, passing good calls would allow you know the tenant to have, you know rights, because the tenant does have rights, and one of the things that is very important to DC is they have that first right of refusal, you know. So if that, if that building is sold, you know the tenants can then band together and and purchase it, um, as part of a cooperative right, and so now the tenants would own and and and operate that building, and so that's very important. But, but, but tamra, I live in prince george's county. Prince george's county has 27 municipalities, right, and I can tell you how frustrating it is to advocate for code enforcement to do the work. Right, yeah, right, and this may get on. I'm going to give you the whole spectrum of things. Right, the code enforcement to do the job, because one at the county level, code enforcement, is burdened. There's not enough code enforcement officers to serve the entire county. I worked at the county years ago. I remember there was 10 for, like the entire county, and you had supervisors and managers doing the code enforcement work. That's. That's still similar when it comes to municipalities, right. And so let's just say a particular issue I have.
Speaker 2:There was a gentleman who I found I was trying to illegally vic somebody out of a legally subdivided unit that he was illegally renting, right. And so, you know, I wondered, hey, how does this happen? But then I found out, not only this, he's been renting for 20 years, you know what I mean, and the city knows he didn't have a license, you know. But the funny thing is is he's an old business owner in like the city, in like the Westlaw area. So you know, it's the bureaucracy of things, like you know, it's the bureaucracy of things. Like you know. People probably just turned a blind eye and he might have helped a few people with housing. But my biggest thing is like, where is his rental license? And I even asked the city. City, he has no rental license.
Speaker 1:Ms Hall mentioned that to me before we started recording that a lot of the apartment complexes don't have a rental license. How is that even possible in the county, Mr Mitchell?
Speaker 2:So I want to say that it could be oversight to some extent, but I think that it's also ignorance. I think that in that situation that I was particularly talking about, there were people that were aware that he, this, this individual did not have a license. He's been renting, but they didn't want to act on it. They, they didn't want to do anything to enforce it. But then I reached out to the county, right, and you understand that when you're in a municipality it's very tricky. I'll call the county, they'll ask me where I am, even as a council person, you know actually where I am. I'm telling them, I'm telling the issue. They're like oh, you guys are your own separate, uh, entity, you guys have your own code enforcement. So you know we can't act on that right, like you know, and and that's just.
Speaker 3:It's just very interesting they don't help, they don't hold the landlord accountable. D-pie is doing nothing. You hear me when I tell you when people come, when the inspectors come, what's crazy is they've been looking at all the outside when we got all these tickets like 800 probably, or more tickets of things that's not working in our unit like me, for example, that's safety in my house, right and they haven't taken care of it at all. We have a lot of gas leaks here also, you know we just had another one last night and D-Pi's just I don't know, maybe they need to just clean this, you know, just clean those, Right, Because they're not doing their job at all.
Speaker 2:We need to add people. We need to add people. That's been. You can ask any county executive, right from probably with Sherm to the people who are going to run for county executive next Is D-Pi properly staffed? All of them will probably tell you an honest answer no, it's not properly staffed. So what is your solution? To properly staff DPI. Right, because DPI being properly staffed is important, not just for the code enforcement but now for the rent stabilization. Right For them to make sure that people aren't hiking it above that 3%, you know. Or CPI plus 3%. Right With the max of 6 to make sure that that doesn't happen. And so properly staffing deep high is very important. But also paying them, because what people will do is they'll start in Prince George's County, they'll get their bearings and then they'll move to Montgomery County, they'll move to Howard County and do code enforcement where they pay actually better.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned, mr Mitchell, there's a couple of things and I wrote them down. So we've got the Tenant Safety Act that's coming up and it'll be effective October 1st. What about what other legislation are you pursuing? What other policy? Because you mentioned, you know there are specific acts that individual and collective tenants can do, but what are some of the other policy acts that we are asking our legislators to do?
Speaker 1:Because one of the things that I like to do on this podcast and the reason I started this podcast podcast is to get a younger generation of listeners because they listen to podcasts, right and the millennials and younger, so that they can be, you know they're. You know, like I said, I have a daughter who's a tenant. She lives out in California, but you know this issue could affect some of her friends that still live here because they are probably tenants or soon to be tenants. So what's the other legislation that they could be helping you advocate for as a housing justice advocate? You know, maybe to get make sure that we require the license, whatever else, what are some of the other legislation policies that we should be pursuing?
Speaker 2:That is so crucial that you asked me like. Prior to being a council person, I was president of the Prince George's County Young Democrats and I remember that we had a general body meeting and a member asked former council chair Todd Turner you know why is housing so unaffordable in Prince George's County? Right, and not just not just single family or townhomes, but rental homes and rental properties. And you know, generally speaking, you know. Todd responded, as most you know, prince George's figures would especially more establishment figures in the sense of we are probably the most affordable in reference to our region. Right, if we're talking about DC or we're talking about northern Virginia, right, even though, that's true, a lot of those, a lot of a lot of the places are still unaffordable. Right, like you know, people in my generation and earlier are still having difficulty purchasing homes. Right, but not only that, but then where we're paying rents that are somewhat, sometimes higher than people's mortgage and a lot of times higher than people's mortgage, right. And so what I told him was we should, as a county, when it comes to the development considerations, they look at area median income and they always base that area median income off of the uh, the northern virginia area and that northern virginia area, you know, if you know anything about housing prices and you know how wealthy it is, it has two of the 10 top richest counties in america right there in northern virginia, right, so that I think, I think that it's like it's unfair to um, um, have that. What is it that? That threshold of 70% of area median income threshold, you know, like I think we should talk more about deeply affordable housing, you know, which is 20, 30, 40% of that area median income. You know, because, at the end of the day, like I said in a lot of times, in that region we're considering Northern Virginia and we're considering DC, which is a lot more affluent, um, you know, and, and so you know that that's that.
Speaker 2:That's really one of the things. You know, I, I would consider, uh, but then I would, I would also consider, you know, making sure that there was um more rental assistance, um, more rental assistance, more rental assistance and first-time homebuyer assistance. You know, I know that's one of the things that Kamala has spoken about and advocated for. So I do hope that there are, because one of the things we've seen is like, when we give people assistance, we give people more money. You know, the government later on is paying a smaller cost right.
Speaker 2:We've seen universal basic income actually work at a pilot level. You know where people they have more money when they're actually able to start off at the poverty line. You know prior to any employment. Right, like the thought is is people do better, especially when we address it the first time, and I think that could be said when it comes to fixing the issues. The reason that Ms Charlene's building continues to decline is because when it comes to them fixing the issues, they're doing small band-aids instead of actually addressing the problem, and it's costing the residents more agony and it's costing, of course, the business owners more money and grief in the long run.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, those are some good, good plugs I do, because you mentioned more rental assistance and assistance for first-time home buyers. I wanted to put in a plug for an organization that I'm on the board of. It's called HOPE. Hope stands for Housing Options Planning Enterprises. It's a nonprofit organization that provides residents with first-time homebuyers assistance as well as rental assistance. That's number one. As well as rental assistance that's number one. Number two the goal of HOPE is to make sure that all people are housed, meaning whether it's buying a house, getting into an apartment and being able to sustain the housing that they have, so that everyone has sustainable housing, and so that is one resource. It's called again HOPE. It's H the acronym Housing Options Planning Enterprises.
Speaker 1:I'm on that board for people to provide services to, for our not only rental assistance, first-time home buying assistance. We do micro-lending, for if you are a small business owner and you're trying to start a business, we do some micro-lending. There's just a whole plethora of services. In fact, I just got off of a board call last week saying we're looking for more clients. We have grant programs, we have grant money that we might have to return because we don't have people knocking on our doors, and so I'm going to use this as a plug to look up HOPE.
Speaker 1:If you just do a internet search in your browser for HOPE H period, o period, p period, e period but it stands again for Housing Options Planning Enterprises and they have a lot of resources that people can use in order to get into the proper housing again, whether it's renting or buying, and to stay and maintain. The main thing is that we're trying to make sure that people are able to stay and maintain, be sustainable, have sustainable housing. So I just wanted to put that plug in. I know Ms Donna Hurley, who is our executive director, would certainly appreciate hearing from our listeners if they are in need of help. Mr Mitchell, we're coming to the hour now. Is there a contact information that we could share with our listeners if they wanted to reach out to you in order to get a housing justice advocate that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I would say email is last name, first name, so the best email is Mitchell Martin 1549 at Gmail. So if you need to email me but social media, you can just find me Martin Mitchell or Martin Anthony Mitchell on Facebook. On Instagram, martin for Laurel. I'm also my professional page on Facebook, martin for Laurel, and also on Twitter Busboys and Poets in Hydesville. They're going to have a conversation and a movie screening on rent stabilization by Councilmember Oriada. Councilmember Oriada. She helped lead the fight for rent stabilization at the county level and so she has a feature-length film that we're going to view at Busboys and Poets in Hydesville and then have a short discussion Q&A after, and so definitely plan on that one September 22nd at Busboys and Poets in Hydesville. Just put the time tentatively at 6 pm, because I'm not sure if they confirmed the time, but I would put 6 pm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually think I saw her email on that that just came out this past week. I'll try to see if I can find that, but go ahead with the next event, if you have anything.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so this reminded me, because you were talking about hope and you were talking about the financial services. I do a quarterly expungement clinic every three to four months, helping people clear their criminal and traffic record, and so we'll be doing another one on October 26th at the Laurel Branch Library, and we are adding a component. We usually do an expungement clinic slash know your rights clinic, but this time we're doing an expungement clinic slash holistic wellness fair, and so we're going to have some financial service providers, we're going to have health providers, we'll also have, like employee pensions there with the mobile job van, and so that event will be at the Laurel Branch Library on October 26th from 10 am to 1 pm, and we will have a lot of community partners. You know, giveaways, food and, of course, free legal help. And one of the things I'm excited about is we will have an immigration team there this time giving help with immigration issues.
Speaker 1:Excellent, Ms Hall, also with you. When is the next tenant association meeting at Heather Hills? What's the next step for you guys? What are you guys planning to ensure that your living conditions are improved at Heather Hills Apartments in Temple Hills?
Speaker 3:Right now we're working on a rally. We have a room where we meet, so we communicate every day.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:As a collective just every day, and we send out 311 tickets in every day on a daily.
Speaker 1:Okay, excellent. Lives in another tenant association. You know apartment complex that wants to get started and find out what you guys did to get started. Do you want to share your contact information, or at least an email? Maybe you can give them some guidance. They may be listening and say, hey, we've got some similar issues here in Oxon Hill, or you know wherever they may be living and they want to, you know, bounce some ideas off of you. What's your email address?
Speaker 3:Hall H-A-L-L-C-H-A-R. Number six at gmailcom, and my number is 301-437-3027. And I have another one, 240-722-5319.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so we'll put all of those resources and what we call our show notes, those from Mr Mitchell as well as Ms Hall, so that you'll have those down as well and you can reach out to them about the various events.
Speaker 1:I'll put the information about HOPE in there as well, so you'll have all of those resources. Well, it's been a pleasure having you both. This is the first time I've had two guests on at the same time. It's been a pleasure having you both to speak about tenants' rights and how to deal with tenant issues, particularly not only at Heather Hill, but just housing justice in general, and we certainly applaud the work that Mr Mitchell is doing as a housing justice advocate and working with CASA, casa de Maryland. We'll put some of those resources in as well, and we thank you so much for taking out your time. I know it's a holiday weekend it's Labor Day weekend and we probably won't get this published until after the holiday, but certainly thank you for taking out the time on your weekend and the holiday weekend to join us. It's been very informative and I will let, ms Charlene, if you have any other last things that you want to say to our listening audience, particularly those young folks that may be getting ready to sign that lease Read.
Speaker 3:That's what they have to do. Read them. Fine words, anything you don't understand, google it or try to get some type of assistant.
Speaker 1:Okay. Somebody you feel you know, okay and Mr Mitchell, any parting words you have for any young person that might be getting ready to sign a lease here in Prince George's County. Young person that might be getting ready to sign a lease here in Prince George's County.
Speaker 2:We can kick stones at the gate alone, or we can come together and move boulders, and so they're just saying collective power, we can get anything done. But then also also, I was saying that the people are the market and reminding, reminding the business owners, reminding the ecosystem, when they say the market and things are out of the market's control, that the people make up the market the consumers, the renters, you know the buyers, they make up the market and so anything can be done.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say. Also, you know, pay attention to the reviews. You know, when people leave reviews yes, about a property complex, that's very important do not ignore those reviews. And also, when you have people out here like martin that's fighting, you know, for rent stabilization, and just you know us fighting period, uh, be supportive, you know. Right, because numbers matter.
Speaker 1:Right, right, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Those numbers matter Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, once again, thank you so much again for taking time out of your holiday weekend to be with us on. All Politics is Local. I certainly appreciate you and Ms Hall. If there's any assistance that I can be of you guys to Heather Heals, please do not hesitate to call. Likewise, martin.
Speaker 1:We've kind of hooked up in the last couple of weeks or months, I should say, since the special election. But I certainly appreciate all the work hard work you're doing in space and appreciate you and feel free to call on me and we hope we'll maybe even have you back and have some updates and some improvements on what has happened since this podcast. So thank you so much for joining me. Please join us again on another edition of All Politics is Local.
