How to Transition from Teaching to Instructional Design with Sara Stevick

Transitioning from K12 teaching to corporate instructional design can feel overwhelming. You have some of the skills that an instructional designer may use, but there's still a lot to learn (and framing your previous experience in the right way can be a challenge).

However, people like Sara Stevick have made it their mission to offer support and guidance to those who are making the transition. Sara Stevick leads a free volunteer initiative called Teaching: A Path to L&D, and it's dedicated to helping teachers break into the instructional design space.

She has also made the transition herself...landing a corporate ID job at a major financial institution after teaching for years.

In this live session recording, we discuss:
-The path you should take to land an ID job
-The biggest corporate ID skill gaps faced by teachers
-How to evaluate paid programs
-How to stay confident and present your experience in the best light

Grab my free Become an ID checklist at becomeanid.com

Subscribe to the Devlin Peck YouTube channel

Visit my website at https://www.devlinpeck.com 

Transcript

How to Transition from Teaching to Instructional Design with Sara Stevick

[00:00:00] Devlin: Hello everybody and welcome. We're here with Sarah Stevick, and the topic is how to transition from the classroom to instructional design.

[00:00:10] So Sarah was a teacher herself for like almost a decade and... I guess towards the end there, you're like, it's time for a change and and you made the transition to instructional design. You're working at one of like the biggest financial institutions. So that is exciting and I think the real reason we're here and the reason everyone knows who you are and.

[00:00:30] And the reason I've been seeing your name every week on LinkedIn is because you're doing so much to help teachers transition into the instructional design space. So I'm guessing you, you saw the grass is kind of greener over here. So now "let's help bring all these, these teachers with, with me." So you're doing a ton of great work.

[00:00:47] You know, you're helping so many people. But maybe Sarah, can you tell us a bit more about your transition into the instructional design space from teaching?

[00:00:55] Sara: Sure. Well, first of off, thanks for having me, Devin. So Hi, I'm Sarah [00:01:00] Stevick, like Devlin said. If you can't tell from all my gray hair, I was teaching for about a decade. And I loved it. I was a teacher that got to school at 6:30 in the morning.

[00:01:10] I taught all day. And then after school I was a sponsor of clubs and I coached Color Guard and I tutored and... I mean, how many of us as teachers did all those things and worked until like 6, 7, 8, 9 at night and then get up in the morning and then we always get that, "oh, but it's for the children."

[00:01:29] You're like, "yes, yes. I love the children. The children are fantastic." And they are... Unfortunately, what they don't tell you about teaching is all the other stuff besides teaching. That just starts to get you down. There's times where you're not seen as a professional even though you have so many degrees or you've gone through professional developments until it's coming out your ears and your eyeballs, where you can talk about all these different methodologies and ways to do all these crazy [00:02:00] things. 

[00:02:00] Yet when you try and tell them, "well, based on our research and based on all these best practices, this is how we should be doing it." And they're like, "oh, no, no, no. We know what we're talking about and my child, okay, can't take hearing no. Because if you say no, that's not gonna work. They need an A." 

[00:02:20] Oh, well then they should work for an A. So that's all to say. I did love teaching. I taught high school anatomy and physiology and biology. The last four years I was in deaf education. Before that, I've taught everything from English to science to self-advocacy.

[00:02:38] My last teaching position wasn't ideal and I accepted a position that I think the school and I both kind of knew maybe this is not perhaps the best fit, but they needed a teacher. I needed a job and I accepted it. Like six weeks into the year, I actually had some medical things going on. I was out from October to February, and when I came [00:03:00] back, I literally had to make the choice between keeping the function of my arm or keep being a teacher.

[00:03:07] And I chose my arm. I know it's shocking ... but when I did it, I felt like a horrible person. I cried for two weeks straight. Because I left in the middle of the school year. I abandoned my babies. I had so many people, "Why? We need good teachers? Why would you leave? Why would you, why would you do that?"

[00:03:28] I'm not doing it to them. I'm doing it for me. And I think that's something that a lot of teachers need to hear. Because sometimes it takes an event that... It took a bone tumor. And being physically at risk to get me to leave teaching. And even though I cried for two weeks and I was really sad.

[00:03:54] I have never once regretted it, and I think there's a lot to be said for [00:04:00] that. 

[00:04:01] Devlin: Wow. Yeah, I did not know that, that's such a drastic thing is what caused you to leave the field and then still with that. Yeah. You still feel all of that guilt. 

[00:04:09] Yeah, my mother-in-law is a teacher too, I was like, "I want to go into teaching." Like when I was graduating with my bachelor's, I was like applying to like teaching positions, like to teach English. I was like, so idealistic about it.

[00:04:20] And then hearing from my mother-in-law, hearing these horror stories, I'm kind of like, yeah, maybe this isn't reality. No. Good . Yeah. I'm like ok. Yeah, there's this instructional design thing I've actually heard about, like, let me do more research on that. 

[00:04:36] Sara: Well, and that's me too.

[00:04:38] Like I had to leave teaching. I left in the middle of the school year, I had just come out of this traumatic surgery. I thought I was gonna be a teacher forever. I had decided that when I was 16 years old, I was 16 when I decided I was gonna be a teacher and I didn't know where my life was. It was laying on the [00:05:00] floor, it was laying behind me in the backseat of my car with crates full of, of all these binders and everything that I had scooped up from my classroom.

[00:05:10] And I felt like I couldn't do anything. What could I, a teacher do? I'm just a teacher! And I can't tell you how many people I've talked to that, that have said the same thing is "I'm just a teacher. I'm just a teacher." No, you're not just a teacher. You are a teacher. And that's a that as much as like, oh, it's so superpower.

[00:05:35] It's a superpower because if you can teach something, that means you can learn something to the point of understanding, in a way to break it down and teach it to somebody else. And there's all types of teachers out in the world and instructional designers are just another form of that. 

[00:05:50] But as far as leaving in the middle of the school year, that is something that we're told "if you leave, then we're going to take your license, we're going [00:06:00] to find you, you'll be blacklisted. You'll never get another job as, as a teacher ever again." It's never an enticement to stay. It's always a fear that they instill. And the truth of the matter is I've had about six or seven teaching gigs offered to me since I've left teaching.

[00:06:19] Didn't seem to phase them one iota that I left, I left in the middle of the school year. But so I, I just started looking into instructional design and I was like, "I can do this." You know, like, I've done this before, and you have like that little monkey on your shoulders saying like, "you can't do this, you can't do this."

[00:06:38] And all the people around you are like, "but you're a teacher, you're a teacher, you're a teacher." So, so what? Because I was a good teacher, now I'm gonna be a good instructional designer. Watch me. And I think that's the biggest part is that it's that confidence in getting that. There's definitely things that you have to do in order to make this transition.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] It's not a lateral transition, and I want to emphasize to everybody who is interested in making this transition. It's a lot of work. But it's not more work than staying up till 2:00 AM grading. It's not more work than using all of your weekends for months on end to do lesson planning and researching best practices and going to PD and worrying about little, you know, Susie or Johnny if they're getting enough to eat. All that follows you home.

[00:07:30] Right? So there's some things that I, I really do tell pretty much anybody who's interested in leaving teaching and, and moving on to something else. First thing that, that you really need to do is really decide what you want to do. Instructional design is totally my jam. I love it. Why do I love it? Because I like to create things.

[00:07:53] I like to figure out, "okay, this is what's missing. How can I fill that gap? What can, what cool tools can I [00:08:00] use to make that? And what makes it most effective? How do I get it to my learners?" Right? Like, that's so exciting to me. That is not every teacher's favorite part, and I think that's important to think about when you're looking to get into something new is write out a list of all the things that make you tick.

[00:08:20] Do you like to create? Do you like to work with kids? Like what drew you to teaching in the first place? What are the things you want to leave behind and what are the things that you wanna carry with you? Because there's so many different things. 

[00:08:31] But once you have your list together, once you've determined, "Hey, yes, instructional designs for me, how do I do that?" Well, first off, you got to fill your knowledge gaps. That's always the first big step. Okay? You can do this in several different ways. 

[00:08:49] Personally, one of the biggest reasons I do what I do is because when I was looking to get into this, everything was like, "yes, for the low, low price [00:09:00] of 20 million." And I'm like, "I'm a teacher. Where do you think I'm getting this dough?" Cause it's not from my bank account, , it's just, if it's for free, it's for me. And so that's, that's kind of like my motto in life. So LinkedIn Learning... You can sign up 30 day free trial.

[00:09:21] You get as many LinkedIn Learning courses as you like. If you just type in "instructional designer" at the top, there's lots of different paths you can take. YouTube. I mean, I happen to know of a couple individuals. One of them's named Devlin Peck. He has a couple really cool YouTube videos on there.

[00:09:38] You check them out. Have you heard of him? He's pretty good . But yeah, he's you're awesome. Of course. And Cara North has some amazing things out there. There's so many things for free on YouTube, on LinkedIn Learning. Even after those 30 days, you can get it for free through your local library.

[00:09:53] You could also do stuff like Coursera. All these are gonna be cheaper. You do not need a certificate [00:10:00] or a specific degree in instructional design to be an instructional designer. Only 46% of instructional designers have a certificate in instructional design, and only 16% have a degree in instructional design.

[00:10:18] Wow. Yeah, and those are, I know that, yeah, those are statistics from ATD, so everybody else, it's experiential, right? And teachers have a lot of experiential things. If you're showing that you're filling in your knowledge gaps, you have a portfolio, which we'll get to in just a second. If you have your portfolio that basically lays it on the table and says...

[00:10:41] "You can't say I can't do this because I'm literally showing you that I just did it." But with all that, I know that for teachers, this is a hard thing to let go because for teachers it's all about your pedigree. It's about what degrees do you have, what certificates do you have? I get that! Not a problem. But that's expensive. [00:11:00] And you don't have to do that here.

[00:11:03] If you did want to do that. If you really are thinking of going through a, a formal learning program, I highly recommend a YouTube video by Cara North where she goes over how to decide if a master's program is right for you.

[00:11:18] Yeah. But you can really apply all those principles to any type of learning program. My biggest thing for that would be to say, If you're looking to fluff your resume, don't waste the money. Because a lot of those courses aren't gonna mean much to the corporate world unless it's like through ATD, which won't give you the practical application that you really need.

[00:11:42] Or they're gonna be like the master's programs that can be hit or miss. There's a couple really good ones. I know the University of Maryland does one MicroMasters and it costs $1067. I've looked into it a few times but I've heard really good things. So you know, [00:12:00] if you're looking to get the skills, That's another thing I know Devlin, you offer a fantastic bootcamp with a lot of great practical application skills.

[00:12:10] You know, anything that you can leave with something that you built, that's going to be great. These programs that are saying, "oh, learn Articulate in a day." That's not real. 

[00:12:21] Sorry, that's not real. No. 

[00:12:23] Now you can learn the basics in a day. Absolutely, yes. But to, to really get your hands dirty in it. It's playtime.

[00:12:31] Mm-hmm. . It's all playtime. The NovaEd Five Week Learning Experience Design course. It's completely free. It's awesome. And it's HRMS certified, I think is, is the acronym for it. But so you do get a certificate and it's a free certificate. Anyway, so that's first step. Fill in your knowledge gaps, however you choose to do it. 

[00:12:55] Devlin: Yeah. There's, yeah. So much free stuff out there, like you were saying. I mean, that's like the whole purpose with [00:13:00] my YouTube channel. It's like, it's like, what were my biggest takeaways from like the master's program I did because it, it was helpful, right? Like, Oh yeah, maybe 90% of it. I was like, I don't wanna be doing any of this stuff, but like 10% of it were like really helpful takeaways.

[00:13:12] Then now I'm like, let's use those takeaways and turn those into YouTube videos for all the people who aren't spending 20 plus grand on a master's program. . So it did help for like creating this content because I remember those like aha moments I would have in class. And then just like the community aspect too, right?

[00:13:27] Like you can learn so much just like being on LinkedIn in these, in these communities and you're a free community. You do like webinar series, right? And you actually like dive into some of this stuff for free. We haven't even started talking about that. 

[00:13:39] Sara: So yes, so you gotta fill, fill in your knowledge gaps. This is very important because you don't wanna be fishing with the wrong bait, you know?

[00:13:48] Teachers out there. If you've ever had somebody come in who wasn't in a teaching position before, no teaching background, and they're like, "but I'm a math expert." You're like, " well, I [00:14:00] appreciate that, but there's things about teaching... there's nuances to it to actually make it effective.

[00:14:06] Right? And if that math person had gone through and learned about all those things and then came in and they said, "oh, well I'm a math, I'm a math person, and, and I can, I know all this stuff. Like I can do this." Okay, but can you show me that you can do it? That's the difference. If you go into this, let's say you're that math person, right?

[00:14:31] And you say, "well, I have a background in math, but I have been researching X, Y, and Z, and I can see how it applies to what we're doing through A, B, and C, and I'm excited to learn more." That's the attitude you gotta go into all this with. If you come in like, you know, They're gonna say thank you for your time.

[00:14:59] [00:15:00] There's the door. You know, it's, it's, it's really, " that's cute. Go ahead. Sit down now." No, don't, don't say that to your SMEs. That might not go over so great. But no, that, that's something that, that's really important because growth mindset is everything in this field.

[00:15:17] Yeah. It's constantly evolving, constantly changing. And if you come in with, "well, I have all this experience," that's great. State it like a fact, don't state it in a way that might be misconstrued as limited in perspective. 

[00:15:32] Devlin: Yeah. Or like entitled, some way to. "I'm, I'm perfectly qualified for this because of that."

[00:15:39] Yeah. But I mean, you know, like the hiring manager survey I did, there are like these open response questions like, "what else can an instructional designer do to stand out?" And such a big percentage of those referenced basically a growth mindset. They're like, "I want someone who's willing to learn, someone who's like flexible, who can adapt to our team's needs."

[00:15:56] And I, and so, so yeah. I think that's definitely something good to [00:16:00] emphasize. And still with, you know, this emphasis on like eLearning, especially right now. Like they do want people who have some of the skills that they'll need in the online environment. And I know teachers probably aren't using Articulate Storyline <LAUGH> unless they are trying to develop their ID skills.

[00:16:16] Sara: Right. Exactly. And that's a perfect segue. So that brings me to my second part of filling in the knowledge gaps, right? You gotta learn the tools of the trade. Yes. The two biggest ones that I would say are you have to learn a comprehensive authoring tool.

[00:16:36] I highly, highly, highly recommend Articulate Storyline 360, especially for teachers because we lived, ate, and breathed PowerPoint for how many years, right? It's a very, very similar setup and you get a month free trial. There are other ones. Adobe Captivate is another one. It is a little bit cheaper, but the learning curve is steep.

[00:16:59] [00:17:00] If you are not familiar with Adobe products, you are already gonna have to learn so many other things. I would really recommend Articulate Storyline 360 and also video editing software. So Camtasia or Filmora is a great free option and Filmora, their company recently came out with a more comprehensive video editor that is free as well.

[00:17:21] After you've kind of filled in your actual methodology, content gaps, right? Like what's a needs analysis? What is Kirkpatrick's four levels? What are the models of ID? As you learn about these things, you're gonna be like, "this is what I do. That's great." Every time you see something or learn about something that you're like, "oh, well I do this and that," write it down.

[00:17:45] Because that's one things that translates into your, into your resume. Because that's step two, you gotta tailor your application documents. When I left teaching and I was starting to apply for things, I took my teacher resume and I'm like, "all [00:18:00] right, I'm gonna revamp it." I added my most recent teaching experience, and then I put a whole bunch of different titles under my name and I sent it out.

[00:18:09] I applied to like 50 to 60 jobs like that, and I'm like, "I don't understand why I'm not hearing back. Well, if you're saying that you're a teacher slash instructional designer slash architect slash you know, neuroscientist, you know, it just doesn't play over well. Yeah. So. For whatever role that you decide you're going for, you need a resume specific to that role.

[00:18:33] Mm-hmm. And this is to show interest and it's to show that you're a serious applicant and you took the time to research their company. You took the time to research the role and you can execute it. When you do these blanket applications and these blanket resumes, it really reads insincere and it, and it's not going to get you the results that you.

[00:18:56] So you gotta have a good resume. You gotta do [00:19:00] LinkedIn. That's not something teachers like to do. I signed up for LinkedIn, like back in like 2012, I think. And I didn't touch it until I left teaching again. But LinkedIn's amazing. Connect with all the people. Yes, please connect with all the people except for the creepers.

[00:19:17] Don't connect with those ones. But all the other people you should connect with because you never know where your next opportunity is gonna come from. So you need your resume, you need your LinkedIn profile, and it needs to be optimized. So it can't just say, "I'm a teacher aspiring to..." 

[00:19:33] Devlin: Need to use those keywords, recruiters, keyword, searching these keywords up at the top.

[00:19:41] Sara: They don't have time for "aspiring." They need people who are ready to own that title and get into it. If you have filled in the knowledge gaps, if you have learned the tools, if you can do everything, an entry level instructional [00:20:00] designer can. You can say you're an instructional designer. You cannot say that your previous work experience was in an instructional design unless it was.

[00:20:09] That's the difference. There's a difference between the now and your past work history. Okay. Never, ever, ever lie on any of these documents. That is not a good thing to do. But if you think about it, when you were, like for all the teachers in here, when you were going for your first teacher, Did you say, "oh, student?"

[00:20:34] No, you said "teacher. I'm a teacher." Because you had gained the skillset, you got the degree. In our case, we had to get the licensure, but you don't need that for instructional design. 

[00:20:45] You'll also need a portfolio. Now a portfolio is something that takes time to develop and it should be your best work samples. It should be [00:21:00] anywhere from three to five featured items, and it should be what you're capable of. Now, don't put up stuff from like years ago because that's not gonna be what is your skill set now. Also, this stuff from teaching is a great starting place, but you, it's not ready made for your portfolio because there's things as teachers that we just didn't do.

[00:21:21] You know, we didn't focus on all the CRAP. If you were to read, Robin William's, The Non-Designer's Design Book, which I highly recommend. Oh, yeah. But she has this acronym called CRAP, which I just love. We didn't think about contrast or repetition to make sure all of our boxes are in the exact same place, or all the fonts are the same, that everything is in relation or aligned with everything else.

[00:21:49] So as good as your stuff for teaching was, we didn't have the time to really design it graphically. Yeah, right. We designed it for efficacy, which is [00:22:00] great. But instructional design's pretty much 50 50 for that. They want it to look really good and they want it to be very effective. So you would definitely have to Take that and switch it up.

[00:22:14] So once you get all your application documents ready to go, then you can start applying. You can start applying before that and that's your prerogative. If you want to, I'm gonna tell you right now, it's gonna be a very rough road if you choose to do that. Yeah. And it's going to be a little disheartening cuz you're gonna get a lot of "no's".

[00:22:33] You're going to get a lot of "no's" either way. 

[00:22:36] Devlin: I, I say it's like playing the lottery, like applying like without a portfolio and without like doing all the stuff you're saying. It's like maybe you'll get lucky, but you're probably just going to get discouraged. , like your time would be better spent, your time and energy would be better spent on like preparing sufficiently showing off these skills because your response rate is going to be way, way better if you have those things.

[00:22:57] Sara: Absolutely. I needed this conversation back [00:23:00] in February when I was starting apply. And, you know, it, it was just really frustrating. But if you put in your legwork in the beginning, it's going to make that back-end so much easier because once you start applying, then you gotta start really figuring out how to interview because you have to go in and connect the dots for them.

[00:23:25] You can't just go in and say, "oh, well I'm a teacher so I can do this. If you give me a chance." You have to say, "well, I know that I can design instructional courses because I have designed 11 different instructional programs with over 250 plus micro learnings, which all included different interactive components such as learning simulations and right."

[00:23:49] I mean we do that, but we need to connect the dots for them so that it's very apparent. 

[00:23:53] Devlin: Yeah, I second that. Like how your materials look is going to have a huge influence right now, especially when things are like [00:24:00] getting more competitive.

[00:24:01] We're visual creatures. We're gonna have some first impressions based on how your site looks. And you don't need to be like this, like amazing graphic designer. It's like these core visual design principles that as you practice with them more and more, Yeah, it's quite, it's quite simple once you, once you can see them 

[00:24:18] Sara: Yeah. I love that analogy that Robin gives in her book about the Joshua Tree. She's like, I've never seen that funky looking tree before. And then she walks outside and there's literally one in almost every yard in her neighborhood. Yeah, right. It's like when you're aware of it, then you can fix it, right? Yeah.

[00:24:35] And honestly, for a graphic, like some tips and tricks that I did to help up my graphic design game. Yeah. Other than reading that book and like watching YouTube videos and all that stuff, I go on like Canva and I go on Visme, V I S M E, and I look at their designs and then I [00:25:00] recreate it. In slides or PowerPoint so that I can actually feel and see how they're creating different looks and so I can understand it better.

[00:25:09] It's just getting my hands dirty with it. 

[00:25:11] Devlin: That is a really smart approach of rebuilding things that you think look nice, trying to just recreate it. That's a really good way to hone your eye for these things and that, and so that's not why I stopped you. I stopped you because you're mentioning something that is like so important, I think, especially for teachers because so many of the things they are doing on a daily basis do kind of transfer well to the instructional design space, but it's how you talk about those things.

[00:25:34] So you gave such a great example. It's like just those little switches in language. " Okay. This person is actually really qualified for what we need them to do here." I don't know if you, if you have a couple more examples, like on the top of your head Yeah.

[00:25:45] About like, this is what I did every day as a teacher and here's how teachers might talk about it, but here's how we can talk about this in an interview or, or, you know, on online, on a resume or something. 

[00:25:56] Sara: Sure. So there, there's a couple key words that I really [00:26:00] strongly suggest not using. Yeah. One of those is the, "Teacher." And it's not because "teacher "is a bad word, it's just because it comes with this automatic subconscious bias for a lot of people.

[00:26:16] So use the word "educator" instead. " Students," I don't use the word "students," use "learners, participants, audience, everyone." Yeah. Anything related to age. It's great that you were an elementary school teacher and you taught grades two through five that we don't need that. Nope. Instructional designer people who are hiring for that, they don't need that.

[00:26:36] They just need to know, can you make stuff? Okay, great. Anything, if you've ever taught. Any professional developments, let any professional development seminars. If you've had a student teacher, if you have taught other teachers how to use technology, guess what? That's a Train the Trainer event that you led using adult learning principles.

[00:26:59] Don't know [00:27:00] adult learning principles. That's okay. There's a YouTube video for that. Also, LinkedIn learning for that . It's stuff that some of you would find very familiar, like chunking, visuals, making it timely so that they can apply it right off the bat. Right. It's stuff that you, as an adult would be like.

[00:27:22] "I'd like that in my training" or even you as a kid. A lot of these things are, are what kids use too. There's a lot of of newer articles out about the difference between pedagogy and andragogy that are fantastic. And it's true. People learn the same way. People learn by doing, experiential, chunks. We need time to process.

[00:27:42] We need time to get our hands in it, right. So it's boiling it all down to just the main elements. Another thing, you don't have state standards in the corporate world. We have business goals and objectives. Guess what? Education [00:28:00] you best bet is a business because they would drop you like that, if you know there's any type of cuts or anything like that.

[00:28:08] So really those state standards are your business's goals and objectives. You're trying to meet those, right? And how do you do that? You design courses or instructional programs. We don't do lessons unless you're applying for a higher ed position. If you're applying for a higher ed position, some of the ED terminology does translate like curriculum, that kinda stuff.

[00:28:31] Devlin: "Designing learning experiences." That could be another catchall. 

[00:28:36] Sara: Or "learner solutions." 

[00:28:38] Devlin: True, "solutions." I like that. 

[00:28:40] Sara: You know, scenario based. I mean, teachers do scenario based all the time. That's a, that's a huge thing that, that we do. Gamification. Hey guys, have you made your your Jeopardy game?

[00:28:52] Your little cahoot? Gamification! So those are a few ways that, that you can translate some of those.

[00:28:58] So my YouTube channel [00:29:00] is Teaching: A Path to L&D. Which is the same as the volunteer initiative that we started. And so did you want me to talk a little bit about that? 

[00:29:11] Devlin: Yeah. Before we move on, just one more thing about like, the language we were using. Like, I've seen some teachers talk about like, just some parallels between like anal, the analysis part and like the evaluation part as well.

[00:29:22] So about like, "collecting data to better respond to learner needs" and stuff like that. Like using that kind of like higher level ID type of speak when really it's like you're responding to your class . 

[00:29:35] Sara: It's more, it's more than that too. So when we do what teachers call a pretest, yes. That is really assessing the learner's individual need to make learner centric solutions.

[00:29:48] But when we're talking about a needs analysis, that's really what is done on that higher level. Like they look at all the data across the current performers, right? [00:30:00] And then they identify, oh, they're not doing this, they're not doing this. And then. You know, so it's a little bit different. So that, in that respect, it's really kind of like how we take standard, standard test results, right?

[00:30:15] From the standards of learning. And we look at those results and we're like, "oh, we really need to focus in on these four things next year in this content area." That's a needs analysis. Honing in on that to those are the behavioral changes you'd want to see and then to make it learner focused, that's when you would do pretest to make sure that you are even further refining your instruction to the learner themselves.

[00:30:43] And then at the end, when you assess them again, you do the formal assessment, you compile that, you iterate your we call it design iteration that. You changed your lesson so that it doesn't suck so bad the next time. . Yes. And, you know [00:31:00] but all of that, and then we push it through. Like we get feedback from the learner.

[00:31:06] We get feedback from the formal assessment, we push it through and present that to see the behavioral change. And that's when we start getting into Kirkpatrick's four levels. Yeah. And if you haven't learned about Kirkpatrick's four levels yet as a teacher, that's one of those knowledge gaps that you'll definitely wanna fill in.

[00:31:23] Oh, a good question. Why did I decide to become ID in corporate as opposed to higher ed? Well, when I was a teacher, I made millions of pennies, and while that was not lucrative, my corporate job? It pays, it pays real well. And I'm very excited about that. I have x so many pennies. All the pennies, they, they're just like, make it rain pennies 

[00:31:55] Devlin: everywhere.

[00:31:55] Maybe dimes. Maybe dimes now, 

[00:31:57] Sara: Maybe even dollar bills, right? Yeah, [00:32:00] true. It's so exciting. But so, I just, that was a big part of it. I wanted to be in the corporate world. I was ready to move away from the education sector and really, Be seen as a professional. It's sad that that's what it took.

[00:32:18] Yeah. But from this side, I feel like I can help so much more because I'm not in it anymore. I feel now like I actually have a chance to be an advocate for teachers. 

[00:32:28] Devlin: Yes. And, and great segue, because you're doing a great job at it. And Yeah. You literally have this entire like grassroots volunteer organization dedicated solely to helping teachers transitioning to the instructional or into the L&D more broadly maybe, but maybe mostly instructional design. So yeah, maybe, I mean, I can, I can talk about that, but maybe you would be better suited too. So just, yeah, let us know what is this volunteer org all about and how can we get involved?

[00:32:59] Sara: Yeah, [00:33:00] sure. I'd love to talk about that. So. Back in November or October I posted something on Facebook. In a Facebook group. A teacher had said, "you know what? I just went out. I'm ready." And I said, "well, you can do instructional design if you have any questions, I recently switched over and at that point I've helped one or two people, you know, on their journey," And I was bombarded with all these, these messages, like, "oh, you know, help me."

[00:33:28] And I was like, "okay, well I can't meet with them all one-on-one, so I'll, I'll get 'em all in a room." And I'm like, "oh gosh. Well if they're educators, I'm gonna need a slide deck, cause if not, it's just not gonna go well. So I made a slide deck and that one slide deck turned into eight slide decks, an eight webinar series, which you can watch them all on my YouTube channel or come live.

[00:33:49] And we run them twice a year in the spring and the fall. Okay. And it's all about transitioning and making that journey and supporting each other. And from that, we started a [00:34:00] LinkedIn group, and I just had people coming outta the wood work like, "Hey, I like what you're doing. Do you need help?"

[00:34:07] I'm like, "yes. Yes. I would love some help. Thank you." But you know, without them I just, there's no way I could have done any of this. Yeah. And all we ask is that pay it forward, you know, like it does, it only takes a few minutes to be kind. 

[00:34:28] Devlin: This is all free. I know, I, I, I mean, not to say everyone's gonna like be meeting with you, but like I know in the past, I don't know how often you still have time to do this, but I know like you're meeting with people, like the volunteers are like meeting with people. 

[00:34:40] Sara: We do have free office hours and it's mentoring on, you can do meet and greets with us. We help you with your resume, we help you with your portfolio. We'll do mock interviews with you. All for free. You can sign up for as many as you like. 

[00:34:54] Devlin: This is amazing. 

[00:34:56] Sara: Yeah. Yeah. And drop, you know, a project in the group and say, "Hey, I'd [00:35:00] love some feedback." And we try and get to 'em. Recently, it's been a little bit more hectic.

[00:35:05] Devlin: You're working a full-time job on top of all this

[00:35:07] Yeah. 

[00:35:08] Sara: And I have a toddler, you know. Wow. Just a few things going on. Yeah. You know and the, the name of the group is Teaching: A Path to L&D. 

[00:35:16] Devlin: If we're gonna send people to one place, like to stay connected to all of this, where would that be?

[00:35:21] Sara: Oh man, that's a good I mean the web, I mean the website's so comprehensive. It has a lot, but I think we talk mainly about like current things, what's up and coming really in our LinkedIn group, 

[00:35:32] Devlin: LinkedIn group?. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. And the website is teachlearndev.org?

[00:35:37] Yes. So pretty easy to remember to go to, so everyone can go, can open that up. 

[00:35:41] Sara: So, and we have some really cool stuff coming up. We're gonna have some stuff with just some beginner Articulate stuff. Beginner Camtasia stuff, some PowerPoint stuff. You know, just adding as much as we can.

[00:35:55] The biggest thing that we want people to know is that you're [00:36:00] not alone and that you're loved and we care about you. You're worth investing in. You've given so much. For so long of yourself, and it is truly our honor and our pleasure to be able to give that back to you in any way that, that we possibly can.

[00:36:18] So we are, we're always looking to, to just, do anything. We always, we take suggestions. You have an idea, you wanna run with something, you need a platform to do it. Come on into td. I will never try and take your stuff, I promise. Ask Anne, you know, she has her stuff. It's all says it's by Anne and, you know, and, and that like, we want to see you shine. You know.

[00:36:43] Devlin: And, and that's like what makes this field so great, like the paying it forward aspect. Like, cuz when I was getting it, I felt so supported. There were content creators that like, had all these guides together about getting into the field and creating your portfolio. So now it's really as I like, and, and like on Reddit, I was like always asking [00:37:00] questions and the, and people were helping just for free.

[00:37:02] So I was like, as I like, started to get the hang of things, I'm like, yeah, how can I start giving back here? So I think it's great what you're doing, like for the industry as a whole. Obviously people on the other end of that support. Yeah. It's like, okay, I got so much help coming in, how am I going to give back now?

[00:37:16] So I'm sure everyone here, if you spent any time in these like instructional design communities, like you see how helpful people are and how, you know, how invested people are and like your success. And I think that's, yeah. Like why this part of why this field is so great. So. 

[00:37:31] Sara: No, I, I a hundred percent agree.

[00:37:33] Like it's, I've never seen anything quite like it and it, you know, We hear, oh, your, the ripples you make, the ripples you make. But here you actually get to see that, you know? And it, it's so profound and it's, it, it's inspirational and inspiring and it, it just breathes life into you. And if, if you're a teacher and you've made your way out into the world and you want [00:38:00] to come be a mentor with us. But yeah, there's, there's definitely, we have our YouTube channel, we have our Slack channel, we have our LinkedIn. 

[00:38:07] Devlin: Yeah. All the things, all the ways to connect. Yeah. 

[00:38:12] Sara: I did want to talk a little bit about, and I know we touched on these things here and there, but I did see some, some questions about portfolios and what do I put into my portfolio, right?

[00:38:24] The best things that you can make are things that you see a need for. So if you're like, "man, I wish there was something on this," make it, that's your gift, right?

[00:38:37] There's GoDesignSomething.co. This is an excellent resource as well to get some examples and inspiration. Christie Tucker, she has a huge list of 30 ideas to be exact for portfolio examples. There's also eLearning Heroes and don't knock the Pinterest. There's actually [00:39:00] Pinterest. Yeah, Pinterest now has ideas for making eLearning.

[00:39:04] Devlin: Kristen Anthony made GoDesignSomething. Kristen was one of the people who, when I was getting into the field, they were like, my idol, like so much helpful stuff for free. I was like, I want to be just like Kristen Anthony, and she's, she's like transitioning to like, front end development, but so inspiring. Christy Tucker, another one when I was doing all my Googling, it was Chrissy Tucker's stuff that was like coming up. So yeah. 

[00:39:26] Sara: Mine was Christie Tucker and Cara North, Michael Allen. Yeah. You, you were just coming on the scene, so, but you know. 

[00:39:35] Devlin: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:39:35] Sara: You here now 

[00:39:36] Devlin: And that's really started popping up in like 2020, really. 

[00:39:40] Sara: And then so something that I, I want teachers to take away, you gotta fill the knowledge gap. You gotta learn the tech tools as far as tech tools are concerned and how to learn those. I have on my website, I have a list for Articulate Storyline, like a whole bunch of different courses.

[00:39:58] YouTube's amazing for [00:40:00] that. Most of like Articulate, I know their, their learning community is insanely supportive. Like I've never seen anything so supportive. But you that's, yeah. Yeah. You can type in any question into Google, like, how to do this in Articulate Storyline 360 and somebody's asked it and then there's like 20 million responses.

[00:40:18] Yeah. It's pretty cool. So definitely learned the tech stuff, graphic design. Devlin and I, we've been saying this pretty much the whole whole time. It's a reoccurring theme is you gotta get your graphic design game up and going. It's gotta look good.

[00:40:35] I hate to admit this, but it's really true, at least for me. And you know, teachers, we really do something, what I like to call the "sticker effect." We slap it on a page and we're like, "it looks great!"

[00:40:57] When in actuality, that doesn't. [00:41:00] It doesn't go over so great. So if you wanna see some really great work samples, portfolio samples. Devlin has a beautiful portfolio. I always tell people to go to your's, Devlin. I'm like, "now you see how he lists out why he did what he did?

[00:41:14] That's what you're gonna do." And they're like, "okay." It's a fantastic idea. Vyond is good. One thing I will caution against with any type of animation, you always want to have a healthy mix between animation and real life figures. And that's because, depending on what you're applying for, their style and their brand may call for one or the other and they wanna know that you have skill in both.

[00:41:43] So when you're thinking about your portfolio samples, definitely think of how you can incorporate a range. 

[00:41:51] Devlin: Yeah, I hardly ever work in like the photo realistic style, but some brands and audiences definitely call more for that. 

[00:41:58] On the visual design thing, like [00:42:00] my, my biggest advice, it's kind of related to like the, the slapping the things on the screen. It's like, it's okay to just like do that, to start maybe, but like the biggest trick to to visual design and good layouts is the iteration.

[00:42:11] So really like get feedback from your friends, your family, like anyone you can, if they're trained in graphic design, even better be like, how does this look? What works here? What doesn't like look at the CRAP principles and be like, "Am I using contrast well here?" Like it, it's a grueling kind of process, especially when you're beginning, like I came into this skill with absolute zero visual design skills.

[00:42:32] My first project was just things slapped on the screen and my, my wife, my girlfriend at the time, I'm like, she was just like naturally better. So I was always asking her like, "what's working here?" She's like, "oh, that's like horrible. Like, you need to fix that." So it, so she helped me so much and now I like kind of have the hang of.

[00:42:48] But it's just, there's iteration. 

[00:42:50] Sara: It's definitely iteration. There's an excellent quote out there that says, essentially " our output is only limited by our perspective."

[00:42:58] Right. And so when you [00:43:00] collaborate, that perspective grows and you're able to accomplish so much more. Yeah. If you talk to any like really skilled instructional designers, I bet not one of them puts out work without other eyeballs on it. Yeah. Cause they know the value of getting that third, fourth pair of eyes.

[00:43:21] I, I know I do. But yeah, to your point, all my stuff was just slapped on the screen too. It, it's playing around with it. It's, it's trying to figure it out. So definitely get that graphic design in there. And also try not to fish with the wrong bait.

[00:43:37] Devlin: Yeah. If there's one takeaway here, I think it, this is a nice transition.

[00:43:43] Like you are not in this alone. A community is very supportive. Sarah has like a whole organization going on at this point to, to help you. The, the community at large is very supportive and helpful. So whether it's working on a project, working on your resume, or just like trying to get the confidence to like really [00:44:00] commit to the transition, like we're all kind of in this together.

[00:44:02] So connect with people here like... You're supported. We're all here to help each other. So, yeah. And don't, and Sarah is a great embodiment of that, so. 

[00:44:12] Sara: Well, thank you and thank you so much for having me on. This was so exciting! 

[00:44:16] Devlin: Yeah, I, I know we touched on a lot, but I, I think, I mean, I learned, I got goosebumps when you were even talking about the value teachers bring and how, you're valuable, like you're learning things well enough to teach them to other people. I'm like, "yes!"

[00:44:30] That's like, that's the best thing about teaching. But thank you so much. 

[00:44:33] We'll talk to you all soon. Thank you so much there for doing this. I'm glad we got to chat more and yeah, I'll see you all soon. Bye.