Ever wondered what's really lurking behind the term "natural flavors" on your favorite snack labels? Today we're sitting down with Ashley, the founder of B.T.R Nation who is leading the way for a new food industry that rejects natural flavors. She's a shining example of a leader that puts people over profit.
After being the primary caretaker for both of her parents as they battled cancer, Ashley set out on a mission to clean up our snack options. Even in the hospital, she found low quality snacks that helped keep the patients eating but that's about all they helped with. The idea for B.T.R Nation came through her experiments to find a healthy alternative for her parents.
We're doing a deep dive into BTR Nation's ethos and the obstacles faced by a brand championing real, earth-grown ingredients in a market saturated with ultra-processed alternatives. The level of transparency in the food industry often feels as clear as mud, especially when it comes to flavoring. It reminds me a lot of the fragrance industry with their unclear, deceptive labels.
In this episode, we're chatting about:
SHOP B.T.R. SUPERFOODSNACKS and use code WENDYKATHRYN for 15% off
Follow Ashley on Instagram
head on over to www.detoxyourpits.com and use discount code WENDYKATHRYN at checkout for 10% off!
If you enjoyed this weeks' episode, please:
Ever wondered what's really lurking behind the term "natural flavors" on your favorite snack labels? Today we're sitting down with Ashley, the founder of B.T.R Nation who is leading the way for a new food industry that rejects natural flavors. She's a shining example of a leader that puts people over profit.
After being the primary caretaker for both of her parents as they battled cancer, Ashley set out on a mission to clean up our snack options. Even in the hospital, she found low quality snacks that helped keep the patients eating but that's about all they helped with. The idea for B.T.R Nation came through her experiments to find a healthy alternative for her parents.
We're doing a deep dive into BTR Nation's ethos and the obstacles faced by a brand championing real, earth-grown ingredients in a market saturated with ultra-processed alternatives. The level of transparency in the food industry often feels as clear as mud, especially when it comes to flavoring. It reminds me a lot of the fragrance industry with their unclear, deceptive labels.
In this episode, we're chatting about:
SHOP B.T.R. SUPERFOODSNACKS and use code WENDYKATHRYN for 15% off
Follow Ashley on Instagram
head on over to www.detoxyourpits.com and use discount code WENDYKATHRYN at checkout for 10% off!
If you enjoyed this weeks' episode, please:
Today, we are deep diving on natural flavors in food. Whether you're shopping for a protein bar, sparkling water or even yogurt, you've likely seen natural flavors on the label. Would it surprise you, though, to know that natural flavors are basically just the fragrance of the food industry and that food companies can use the term natural flavors to hide upwards of 50 to 100 different ingredients? Some estimates say that 80 to 90% of the ingredients that make up natural flavors contain chemical solvents and preservatives, and if that concerns you at all, you are not going to want to miss today's episode. It's the last episode of 2023, and I saved the best for last. Today, I have Ashley, the founder of BTR Nation protein bars, on the show. Btr Nation is one of the only protein bars you can find in stores that uses absolutely no natural flavors or added sugars, and Ashley's passion for creating something that is truly healthy is infectious, and today she is pulling back the curtain on the food industry and why it's so dang hard to find food products without natural flavors.
Speaker 1:You're listening to the Detox Dilemma podcast, where clean living meets real life. We help you toss the toxins out of your life and embrace real, lasting health. My name is Wendy and I'm an environmental toxins attorney turned clean living coach, and since 2015, I've helped over 700 families clean up the toxins in their home. My mission is simple to show you how to create a toxin free ish home that you actually love and fits into your real crazy busy life. If you're ready to dive in and learn more about why you may want to avoid natural flavors in your food and beverages, then stick around, let's dive in. Well, I'm here with Ashley, the founder of BTR, which I'll let her tell you what that stands for, but I'm really excited to have you here, ashley, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I am so excited to talk about all the things. This is going to be a blast.
Speaker 1:It's going to be amazing and my audience has actually been asking for an entire episode on natural flavors for an entire year. Back when I started my podcast, I asked for the list, like what are the things you want me to talk about? And they asked for this. And I, as you know, I do toxins regulation so I can talk about ingredients and labeling and quality of products all day long, but I don't work in the food industry. I mean, I can read a label and I'm probably a little bit more educated than, I think, most people, but I was like I need somebody who understands this stuff. And I heard you speak on a podcast on real foodology and I was like, holy shit, this is the girl. I want her. Not only are you like leading the way as a founder of the company, but you express and understand and are able to talk about natural flavors and regulation in a way that I think is really easy and simple for people to digest. I'm really excited that you're here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. That is an honor. Everyone that knows me knows that it's a big pet peeve of mine, so I'm excited to get into it.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and I have found in my career that whenever I find a company that is disrupting things, that is doing something in a way that most people aren't doing it, they're going really clean. Their ingredients are being sourced from the best places possible. It's not by accident. There's always a story behind it. So I would love to hear how did you come up with BTR? What is that origin story?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so BTR Nation is really a tribute to my parents. I started the company out of this personal need for myself, before it even was a company. Both my parents were diagnosed with very rare forms of cancer, my mom with a Leo Myosarcoma and my dad with appendiceal cancer, so just super rare. I became their primary caretaker and we spent our days eating out of hospital vending machines and cafeterias for over four years and I was just appalled at being in a place where there was so much sickness that our food system was absolutely abominable. I don't understand why there couldn't be one alternative option for patients as well as caretakers who need to be on their best game. Honestly, like I was my parents' advocate, I think that when my parents got sick, they were used to taking care of their parents and they were asking all the right questions. But when you're in that seat and I remember when I was giving birth and I had an emergency C-section I'm so well versed on everything in the medical space I was like, oh, I'll be the perfect advocate for myself. But in that moment, in the hot seat, you just don't know what decisions that you should be making and you need someone who's clear-minded, with good energy, who's really thinking objectively to help make decisions on your behalf. So I wanted better nutrition for myself as a caretaker and then I just saw the things that they were feeding them and I was like this is not by any means meant to be a cure, meant to be a solution. It's just meant to help some quality of life and just help if they can't be eating something or they would down a container of insure. They would just feel so sick after that and I understand at some point I got it. You had to get the calories in. My mom was losing weight so quickly. My dad was losing weight so quickly, but there were points in their journey where they loved and my dad was able to see the company evolve much more than my mom.
Speaker 2:My mom passed away very quickly and she just knew I was doing something in the kitchen and it had to do with health and wellness. She would try to be a taste tester, but my dad was really excited about this and he would ask for it that it was something that it made him feel better, but he also loved the taste of it, which was just such an incredible experience to create a product to meet this problem for them, as well as myself, and then other caretakers doctors, nurses they were like this is so cool, this is actually low in sugar and it's got cordyceps and reishi. And I had always been I don't want to say always, but for the past over a decade I had always been this wellness buff and I was taking elderberry and reishi 10, 12 years ago before. It was super cool and trendy and I was like, oh, let me infuse these bites that I'm making with these good for you ingredients. So everyone loved it. It was like this cool thing that I was doing and I was like, oh, maybe I have something here.
Speaker 2:I ended up tabling the idea because I was just like so devastated after my father passed away and my mom passed away first, and I went and I actually was working at the wellness company and that was really where I also I learned so much about starting a company, what it takes to start something that's consumer packaged good, which means you're holding physical inventory, the capital that it requires. And then, in the middle of the pandemic, I just kind of had this existential crisis, like a lot of people did. Was am I living my purpose? It's like you know, I have these recipes, I have this solution that I've created. The space is still really the sea of sameness in the snack space. Let me bring this to market and see what people think.
Speaker 2:And in a matter of like two months, we had sold out of our original batch and I was like, okay, we have something here. So it is in, totally in honor of my parents and and BTR stands for be bold, tenacious and resilient. Although a lot of people are like, oh, you're a better nation and I'm like you know what that is. That is correct, that's okay. I'm going to create this better nation, this better food supply, and at our core, that is how I think about the entire product line. Everything that we innovate is how can I stay true to these values that I've created and established? For when I was making these back in my kitchen for my parents, oh my gosh, I love that so much.
Speaker 1:So, actually, right before we came on, I just finished one of your protein bars and I have to say I'm not a protein bar eater because when you walk the aisles of stores even holistic, whole foods, health food stores and you pick up the protein bars, they're all garbage. I think I have seen maybe one other one besides yours and I can't even remember the name of it, but I remember the day I saw it and read the label and was like huh, I was shocked because people think and make an assumption that protein bars are supposed to be healthy. Right, most people who go out in the gym, they're people who care about their health and their wellness. These are the people that are eating protein bars after their workouts and they're terrible. So how did you create a product this clean?
Speaker 2:It's a great question and it's a challenge. Honestly, it really is a challenge every day because, as we bring new flavor profiles to the market, we constantly get requests to make, like a birthday cake bar or to make a salted caramel bar, and my philosophy is if it doesn't grow on a tree or grow in the ground, we cannot make it. It just doesn't exist. We tried actually making a salted caramel bar with liqueur and maca and it was good, but it didn't taste like the nostalgic salted caramel that you think of, and I was like, okay, we can't pass this off as a salted caramel bar, it's not. And then I said you know what we're going to lean into, what we do best, which is we're positioning this product for health, right, like first and foremost, we're thinking of your health when we create these products. And then, of course, it has to be yummy and delicious enough to evoke this nostalgic idea of childhood, and that's really. We stick with the flavor profiles that make sense, right, like cocoa and chocolate is inherently delicious, and peanut butter and almond butter and cinnamon and vanilla. So all of these are inherently delicious ingredients that grow on our earth. We just launched, in June, our strawberry shortcake bar and it is absolutely phenomenal Like it literally tastes like real strawberries. But we do get people that will come to us and say I love this, it tastes like a strawberry, but why doesn't it taste like a strawberry starburst? Right? Like people are asking the right questions and this is where it comes down to the brands to make a stand, and I wish, I really wish, we were in a better place. I think, actually, what's happening is all these better for you brands and we are one of them are coming out with better for you, right? So, like I'm putting that in air quotes because it's maybe they take out one ingredient that's a little bit questionable or maybe a little bit inflammatory to the gut. But then there's still all of these, this plethora of other ingredients that they didn't even touch, and for us it was go big or go home.
Speaker 2:Like I knew that I was only going to put out there in the world the absolute cleanest products that I could make that's still accessible in price point for the consumer, which meant we have a lot of non-negotiables. So we don't use any added sugar, but we don't use any sugar alcohols, no stevia, no allulose, no lessethin that's a big one, because sunflower lessethin or soy lessethin is in every single bar. No, in creation we do not use any natural flavors, of course. We don't use any food dyes. We don't use any soy, any dairy, any gluten, no maltodextrin no goodness. No titanium dioxide, nothing. That would actually be super questionable. But the problem is now these better for your brands are still using or actually they weren't using, you know, years ago natural flavors, and now I'm seeing some of even my favorite brands are like okay, I'm going to throw some natural flavors in here, because the natural flavor is designed to do a couple different things. One, it is designed to increase your shelf life, and we see this because, as a brand, that we're supposed to have a long shelf life and we don't. We have a 10 month shelf life, and it's not because you can't eat the bar past 10 months, because you totally can, it's just at 10 months the flavor profile is not going to be as exciting to the palate as it would fresh off the lung. So that's one reason is to keep that shelf life and to really just make food.
Speaker 2:Protein bars typically have like a two to three year shelf life, like it's mind boggling to me. The second reason is because it's manipulating our taste buds and creating this, this profile for your case buds to want more. So with our bars, a lot of times they're super satiating. You have one, you're full for a couple of hours. Maybe you'll have another one during the day. We usually recommend like two, maybe three, but typically like it's also you get a full. You get 25% of your daily fiber intake. We don't want you eating like 10 bars in a row. We want people to be using the bars as a bridge between breakfast and lunch or lunch and dinner. The bars are real food, but we want you to be eating real meals as opposed to just eating on the go. This is your bridge to kind of save you throughout the day.
Speaker 2:But natural flavors give you this, this flavor profile that people think. Watermelon tastes like a watermelon sour candy and that's like, not even close to what real watermelon tastes like. Real watermelon tastes like water with a little bit of berry infuse, like it's wild. Because people are like the strawberry is amazing, but like can you make it stronger? We cannot make it stronger, because that is what strawberry literally tastes like. And then, once people start to realize like oh my God, this is good, you usually tell people like if you're not used to eating more natural, real food, like if you're used to eating ultra, ultra processed food, give us two bites and then, once you're in that second bite, people are like, oh, this is really good.
Speaker 2:And we see that now we're able to really cross this gap between. Obviously we have a very strong niche of consumers that are healthy, focused on eating for their health and their wellness, but then we also have, you know, I use my mother-in-law as a litmus test because she's like I don't like healthy food. Do not try to push it on me, but she will come to our house or she will buy the bars and she's like these are really good. And that's my litmus test is knowing that we can also enter more of a mainstream consumer base. And now we've entered into some conventional grocery stores and we're doing really well there. So it's a good opportunity for us to see like, yes, the natural consumer is where we live, but we need to be able to help educate people and help them understand like watermelon tastes like watermelon, not watermelon sour candy.
Speaker 2:So that's the second reason is to give this like very strong flavor profile to make you want more and to make you eat more and to make you buy more. And then it's because it's cheaper, right? So strawberry powder is so expensive and we get freeze-dried strawberry powder, freeze-dried cherry powder, in all of our products. It's a fruit powder, so expensive, and natural flavor could be pennies. And that is exactly.
Speaker 2:Those are the three main reasons that brands are going to use a natural flavor. And because it has the word natural. And that is not the brand's fault, that's just the regulatory body, that's the industry's fault. People think like, oh well, there's nothing artificial in there, because it says natural and only there's. Probably I'm taking a guess here, but maybe 10% of the masses know that natural flavor has more in it than just what it says. So we're out here just trying to educate, because to me, I mean, if you tell me what's in the natural flavor, I know what's there, I'm fine. I consume products with natural flavors. There's really no way to avoid it. But tell me what's in the flavor. So that's what really is. My biggest pet peeve is it's one of the only things in the food industry that you don't have to be transparent about.
Speaker 1:So I see so many similarities between fragrance in the personal hair industry and natural flavors in the food industry. Because flavors are in the same way that fragrance is it hijacks your sense of smell. So all of these synthetic, lab-made, created scents that are manipulating your nose into thinking that these heightened senses are natural right, like when you're cleaning your kitchen and you smell a pine forest a clean kitchen doesn't actually smell like a pine forest, but we've manipulated our senses and they do that because they wanna keep you coming back for more and more. And also same reason as the flavors it's so expensive to use a pure, distilled essential oil and it doesn't have the same heightened scent or profile. And so people are like, well, this doesn't smell really strong, it won't last for a long time If you don't add chemicals to it like phthalates and other things.
Speaker 1:And regulatorily you don't have to divulge what's in it. It's proprietary. You just say fragrance and then that could be. It's 3,800 different ingredients that could make up that fragrance. I think in the natural flavor world it's like what? Between 50 and 100, they can hide in there. So let's talk about that. What are the kinds of things hiding in natural flavors?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I wish I knew more. One of my goals for 2024 is just to dive deeper into this space and just try to uncover some of the things that are hiding in our natural flavors, because we should be able to know what's in our flavor. Like, if I just want to know what I'm getting myself into, I have a lot of food sensitivities, like do I still eat gluten? Sure, do I still eat dairy? Absolutely, I have more of a gluten sensitivity than dairy, but I know what I'm getting myself into. If I'm going to eat pasta, I'm going to probably have a little stomach ache, but okay, because I've made the conscious choice that I'm going to enjoy my pasta. I love pasta. I'm Italian, I eat gluten-free pasta or rice most of the time, but if I'm going to have a bowl of delicious gluten-filled pasta, I'm going to enjoy it, but I know what's in it.
Speaker 2:As opposed to flavor houses hiding this and I actually recall this experience very distinctively I was at a trade show and a flavor house came up to us and said I notice you don't use any natural flavors and you actually point out we have a banner that says no natural flavors. On our banner and on our sign, loud and proud, very loud and proud. And he was like you know, I notice you call it out, but they're natural. And I was like, well, can you tell me what's in one? And he was like, oh, no, no, no, they're proprietary. And then we kind of got into this, got into it a bit, and he was like you're never going to make it without a natural flavor, so you're going to come running back to us at some point for a flavor agent. I can guarantee that. And I was like, well, I'm not, but thank you for putting that out there that what they're doing is just trying to force brands to use natural flavors and I just want to try and figure out what exactly is in it. If you gave me a list of 10 ingredients and I was like, oh wow, this is actually better than I thought, and there are some companies that can do that.
Speaker 2:So for me, especially if it's food for my daughter and I see there's a natural flavor, I just try to avoid it. But inevitably it's challenging it really is when it's a packaged food. So I will call the company and say, hey, can you just give me the ingredients? The COA would be wonderful, but just a list of the ingredients so I can just look them up or just know what's in this product. And sometimes they'll give it and I'm like, okay, I feel a little bit more comfortable with this. I don't love that it's bunched up into a natural flavor, but at least I know what each of these ingredients are.
Speaker 2:Most of the time that I've seen natural flavor lists, I have no idea what they are. I have to get out my biochemistry textbook and I was a biochemistry major so I know it. I mean, I don't remember a lot of it. So I have to usually Google things and take a look and really go back and take a look at things and I get that food.
Speaker 2:This is processed food. Right, I understand that there's gonna be some processing, but I'm trying to look for the minimally processed as well as just telling me what is in it. It can really range from maltodextrin to solvents that you would use that could be in paint refiner Like it's insane, what can actually be in there. And then there are some things where it really is like strawberry concentrate. I'm like this is great. Thank you for sharing with me.
Speaker 2:So I hate labeling things and I hate that the industry has this dichotomy of like good and bad and like it's not that there's just such a spectrum. But for me there's no spectrum at all if I don't know what's in it. And that's where people are like, oh, you must not eat sugar at all because none of your products have added sugar. I'm like we have a sweet tooth, like my husband and I like we will absolutely most of the time we'll try to make it for ourselves. Or just like know what's in the product before consuming it. But like we eat cookies, we eat cake, like we enjoy, but we know what's in the product before doing that. So that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think people are becoming more and more and more educated on this topic. And it is interesting because I call a lot of companies, right, I do a lot of research and I always say, like there are a few companies making products I love that are using natural flavors, but when I called them, they told me exactly what was in it. They were fully transparent, they offered paperwork. It makes me believe that the rest of that company is equally as transparent the other things that they carry. What they say they do they actually do. And when I call a company and say, hey, what's in your natural flavor? And they're like, oh, we can't tell you. Well, now I don't trust anything you make, because if you're not loud and proud about what's in your product, that's a problem for me and I love it's proprietary.
Speaker 2:Like no one is going in their kitchen trying to replicate a natural flavor, especially because it's not commercialized, it's not product that you can buy in your grocery store. So that's something that we pride ourselves on is if you go to a natural store because not every store has Rishi or Cordyceps or Chaga mushrooms but if you go to a natural grocery store, a co-op, that has Chaga and fiber and the tough thing about monk fruit. So we use pure monk fruit and we pride ourselves on this. And technically, when you use monk fruit and if it has a filler in it, you have to disclose it. The problem is that there's so many brands out there that don't. And then we have customers. Most customers know our values and trust us. But we do have customers and I love when they come to us and say like, oh, does your monk fruit have a Rithward haul in it? Technically on the label you need to disclose that, but so many companies just hide it. Nearly all monk fruit that you would buy in bulk as a wholesale, like we're making hundreds of thousands of bars you're not going to be buying a monk fruit that has a Rithward haul in it off the grocery store shelf. But to the consumer. Monk fruit has a Rithward haul in it because that's the only thing the consumer can buy. There's not really a lot of pure monk fruit out there, but two brands and manufacturers. We buy pure monk fruit. You know, buy the barrel. It is literally pure monk fruit extracted directly from the fruit. But from the consumer side of things, I know where that can be a confusion. And then once again it's the brands that are trying to be a little shady. They're cutting corners. Where monk fruit is $500 a kilo to get in pure format, it's a Rithward haul, is like $7, $8 a kilo. So that is where they're cutting corners. The majority of that ingredient is a Rithward haul and then there might be a little tiny bit of fruit. It's so sad and it's all to get to the bottom line.
Speaker 2:And my whole thing and this is something I'm going to get off my soapbox in a second, like my whole thing is if the food industry took everyone took a slightly lower margin just slightly, it could literally be a couple of percentage points we could all have a better food system. Literally that's all it would take. But you see so many brands that are cutting corners. They were using avocado oil or coconut oil and now everyone's switching to sunflower oil because it's cheap. It's just much, much cheaper.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to be honest, I am not as much of a stickler. We do not use any inflammatory oils. That is not negotiable for me. But I'm not as much of a stickler because sunflower oil is almost in everything, so it's very difficult to find. If I find something with avocado oil 100%, I'm going for it, but it doesn't aggravate me to what I, at least that I can. Physically. I don't have any symptoms manifested, so I'm not as crazy about sunflower oil. However, it is just an easy swap because it's so much cheaper. It's a neutral flavor profile and we just see so many brands going toward that and it's just.
Speaker 2:It's so you can make more profit, right, like that's just really what it comes down to. And if we just all bonded together and just agreed on this, like we're just going to try and make the best food possible, and if this multi-billion dollar company is making like $1 billion less, like I know that sounds like a lot of money, but is it really for the sake of the human public and our health and nutrition? I just feel like as a and I know this is so weird. It's so weird to come out and say this as a company but it's profit is important, right? Like? The business has to exist. You need to be able to sustain, you need to be able to innovate, pay your team, right. All of that, but one or two percentage points in the hands of someone that's already like a multi-billioner, I just don't understand, right, I think, and that's that's my biggest thing, because it's it's trickling down not to the consumer, it's trickling down just to the people who are just putting the money back there.
Speaker 1:I love your sense of balance. I love your sense of let's just all come together and decide we're going to make healthier products, and you might pay a little bit more and the companies might take a little bit less, but then it'll all be good. And I'm like you I I avoid Canola. I have been really happy to see a lot of brands moving towards they're way more options now with avocado oil and even some gluten-free pizza companies are now. They kicked out all of the vegetable oils and they just use olive oil. So I am seeing people making a difference.
Speaker 1:But to your point, earlier I have also seen companies go backwards, both in the personal care industry and in the food industry, where they're now adding either natural flavors or I'm seeing them put that sunflower oil in it. So I am seeing that and I have talked to a couple of them and you know what they tell me. They tell me it's too hard, and so talk to me a little bit about that. When you decided you wanted to manufacture these bars, was there a hurdle? Just to find somebody who would manufacture these for you? Because these brands are telling me we would love to do things more clean. It's just too hard.
Speaker 2:It is hard, and I do feel them, because it is asking the consumer to pay potentially 25 to 50 cents more for a bar. We're pretty excessively priced in the market. We're about $2.49 on the shelf, which is really the same price as I mean actually lower than an RX bar, lower than a Quest bar. So we really do sit on the shelf for an accessible price point, but it's as you scale. And also the accessibility of the ingredient is a challenge as well too. So that's the other thing, although I mean there was a whole issue with sunflower oil. So I don't I hear that from a lot of brands where it's like oh well, avocado oil isn't as accessible, but sunflower oil also isn't that accessible. I mean, vegetable oil is 100%. I mean it's just so industrialized that that is one of the easiest oils to access. So it does get difficult, but at the same time, to me it just comes down to values and educating the consumer.
Speaker 2:Because we're so excessively priced, we don't see it that much, but we will see maybe like one in 500 customers be like oh, these bars are a little bit too expensive. I either want to buy them at Costco or I can't buy them at $2.49 a pop. Can you bring it down to like a dollar, right? Like? I mean, I don't even know a lot of bars that sell at a dollar in the grocery store, in a larger big box store maybe, but one day maybe that'll happen for us.
Speaker 2:We're going to manifest that, but I do obviously feel for the brand, but it just comes down to the values and how much you want to stick to them, and it could be a naive perspective or it's kind of this delusion of we are really trying to build this better food system at all costs. That is very important and our customers believe in that and that's how I know that every single product we create, we have a market that's built and already of tens and tens of thousands of customers who trust us and know that they're going to buy from us because of our values and the truths that we speak out. That's what we bet on. But it is hard right. I mean, as companies get larger and they have other partners that are breathing down their neck, I could imagine it's very challenging.
Speaker 1:The other thing I love about your company is that you're not just the face of it, you're in it, like when you go on your Instagram. You're so fun to watch, by the way, like I can DM you. You're literally the founder of this company. I can send you a message and say I have questions. What do you put in XYZ? Or where do you source? I can ask you all of these things and we can have a relationship, and I think one of the things that I preach all the time to people is call your brands.
Speaker 1:If you love your skincare company, call them. Call them. What do you use? Why? Where do you get this from? Get to know them, because I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm like I am all in, sister, I'm going to go buy all the bars now because I know if I go buy them, I don't have to question what's in them. I hear you and I know you and I trust you, and so I know you're not going to two weeks from now or a year from now. I'm not going to go show up at a store and buy a bar and turn it around and be like, oh shit, why did that get put in there? To there now. Yeah, yeah, and so I think, the idea that we should get away from these huge big food companies and really start getting to know and supporting the small companies that are doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:I love that because it is a battle and a battle sounds so it sounds like such a strong word. But literally, as a small food brand and small beauty brands and personal care brands, we're fighting for shelf space every day, because the reality is that consumers just know big food because they've been around for decades. I mean we have people that ask us like well, why can't your? Because we have our new nut butter cups, why can't your nut butter cups be the same price as a Reese's? And there's literally, like us, over a century of brand presence and awareness and optimization of products that it's going to take us time to get there. So we ask the consumer like come with us on this journey. We're always working on trying to bring costs down while still not sacrificing the quality of the products. But it does require some education and what we're seeing is we're launching into retail now. So how do I do that education at the shelf? Because I can't be at every single shelf 24, seven talking to the consumer. It does come down to a lot of social media. It comes down to getting to know your your customer is. It comes down to being on podcasts and being able to share the BTR vision and our value system. But it's hard, it is really hard on a daily basis. It comes down to who knows this brand and how long have they been around. So our goal is to persist and to survive and to keep growing distribution and to keep that education going because consumers are getting savvier.
Speaker 2:In five years I feel like this conversation will still be natural flavors 100%, but I do feel like more and more consumers like that. 10%, I assumed of people who asked the question about natural flavors. That might be 20%. It's going to be a slow rollout but when you think about, like high fructose corn syrup and how many products still have high fructose corn syrup, even big food is removing high fructose corn syrup because consumers have gotten so savvy and it took, you know, 60 plus years to get here. But it's actually a little more than that 70 plus years to get there. But we're getting there right. It just it takes time and I hope that I am able to see that in my lifetimes. You will.
Speaker 1:I have every faith. I think we will see it. I'm on social media all the time, I'm answering questions from people all the time and I get flooded Like I want to do better, I want to get rid of the toxins, I want to be healthier. Like we live in such a sick nation. I mean, just, our disease rate is just yeah, that's the baseline. And so I think people now are like, oh, what is this crap they're putting in our food and what is this crap I'm putting on my skin? People are getting smarter and people are not stupid, and so I love the information exchange that's happening and that people really are starting to ask questions.
Speaker 1:You mentioned your chocolate. Can we talk about your chocolate for a second? So I am not a chocolate person. I did live in Italy for five years and there's a lot of chocolate over there and food in general. That taste was so good and so amazing.
Speaker 1:It was almost devastating to move back to America and be like, oh my God, our food doesn't even taste like food. This is ridiculous. And also the bread right, you buy bread and the next day it's hard and it becomes croutons and then the next day it molds and Italians will tell you that we're crazy for eating bread that sits on a counter and doesn't mold and they're like that's gross. Yeah, why that's not food? Why would you eat that? Like they're so judgy about it, which I totally understand. But your chocolate, I freaking love your chocolate and it's interesting because I stopped eating crappy chocolate like a long, long, long time ago, and I love your truffle cups. But I, at Halloween this year, my kids always saved for me 100 grand bars. I've always had a thing for 100 grand, and now that it's been such a long time since I've eaten crappy chocolate, I was kind of like it just kind of fell apart and it wasn't good, and so I want to talk about what makes your chocolate so good.
Speaker 2:Absolutely as much as I love the bars, they're bars. It's a very competitive, saturated space. It's so, so tough. It's definitely a challenge every day but we're breaking through, which is so cool to see, because once you make it in the bar set, you can do anything in the food space. But chocolate, it's a labor of love. This product line To me, the number one thing that makes this product stand out and completely different than anything on the shelf is where we source our cacao and our cocoa butter from.
Speaker 2:So we source sustainably and ethically, source from regenerative farms in Ecuador and it's from a co-op and we actually we have a direct relationship with our farmer, like we literally can message him on WhatsApp and that's how we communicate. And usually it's less about questions from consumers and more about understanding the crop, because cacao is very delicate, and trying to figure out how much it's gonna yield and how that impacts our demands and all of the things. But that to me, the Ecuadorian cacao, is one of a kind. I mean, I try all kinds of chocolate. I don't like to refer to myself as a chocolate snob, but I'm getting there. Nothing competes when it comes to the boldness and the nuttiness of the cacao, so that's why it's not bitter. So the majority of our cacao in this country is even in higher quality dark chocolate is sourced from Peru and some people love Peruvian cacao. It's so bitter to me and there's a weird note and I think people say like, oh, it's just because there's not enough sugar in here, when you can actually get chocolate that has no sugar.
Speaker 2:We do naturally sweeten with dates. We've got two grams of dates in each cup. But even without the dates, 100% Ecuadorian cacao is just so scrumptious and obviously if you're used to very, very sweet white chocolate you might not love it, but it's not a taste that you have to get used to, whereas coffee or chocolate can actually be an acquired taste for some. Like, ecuadorian cacao is just so bright and so bold and it doesn't have that bitter note. So that to me is what makes it so special.
Speaker 2:Plus the combination of the dates. It gives it also an interesting texture, because dates are a little bit, they texturize the chocolate a bit more. So even though it's smooth, you kind of have a little bit. You have that nice crack to it. So it's not like this mushy, melty chocolate that like gets all over your head. I mean, obviously good chocolate is supposed to melt but like really mushy melty chocolate just like falls apart and it's very like flaccid. So chocolate is supposed to have that beautiful crack to it.
Speaker 2:So we're really trying to take this like high end, super premium chocolate and commercialize it and put it on the shelf sitting in a mainstream aisle, and that is what we're having a lot of really, really good traction with the chocolate. But now it's just trying to get the price point right, because it is a high priced product and I am aware of that and I know it fully well like it needs to come down a couple bucks. But how can we do that and still be able to produce? So that's really what the whole focus of 2024 is now.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so excited. I love that. So I did not know that you use Ecuadorian chaffa. I don't know how I missed that. I, literally two days ago, just got back from Ecuador. I was there for an entire week. I was on a regenerative farm where the essential oil company that I love gets all that they grow on this regenerative farm. It's all like in-house. They have like the goats and the worm, all the things that have to happen on a farm to grow regeneratively. There is a lot that goes into the quality in the soil and the growing season and when you pick it. I mean it is a labor of love. There's a reason why the quality of these ingredients is so much better coming from these places. But I had chocolate while I was there and I was like this is freaking amazing. It was the first time I'd ever had Ecuadorian chocolate, or so I thought. But because I've had your chocolate oh my gosh, I love that so much.
Speaker 2:It's phenomenal, super special and it's like that's the thing, like some consumers care about that, some consumers just want to taste it and that's fine. But for us we're really trying to figure out how do we educate the consumer, because we know they want it. Everyone comes to us and the same thing that they come to you with questions like I want to eat healthier, but where do I start and why is this? It priced so high and how do I make these small changes? So that's really what we tell our consumer base is. If you're eating bars and you're used to eating like a million quest bars a day, maybe start with one BTR nation bar and start to taper down and we offer lots of discounts. We try to price as excessively as possible, like we're trying to get on grocery store shelves so it's even better priced for you. So come on this journey with us and let's take one small step at a time is my philosophy.
Speaker 1:I love it. A year from now, I'm gonna have you back on the show and we're gonna talk about how you've exploded and people can find you in grocery stores. I'm going to ask you one more question about an ingredient I've been dying to ask you about, and then I'm going to have you tell everybody where they can buy all of your bars, because they should all go buy all of it. So I heard this and I have not been able to verify that some flavor profiles of vanilla are actually from beaver anal glands. Is that an old wives tale or is that actually a legitimate thing?
Speaker 2:So it was true. This is my husband and I were literally talking about this this weekend because we picked up chocolate we were out with at a Christmas tree lighting out with my daughter and we turned over the chocolate and we were like vanilla is the ingredient that would be on the back and it's considered an artificial flavor. So it is not vanilla, it is an artificial flavor, but it sounds like vanilla. So it sounds like something like oh, this is fine, right To the consumer, who and it's once again, it's not up to the consumer we shouldn't have to decipher what vanilla versus vanilla is. I actually don't know and literally I put it on my to-do list after Saturday afternoon where we were like I wonder if it's still sourced from beaver anal glands. It 100% was back in the day and back in the day, you know, 10, 20 years. Absolutely, these beaver anal glands actually are sweet, they smell sweet. So actually if you picked up a beaver tail, it literally would smell sweet back there. So I'm 99% sure that's not an old wives tale.
Speaker 2:I have spoken to flavor houses before that said that this used to happen back in the day. I don't think that that's where vanilla is being sourced from now. That's probably also an intensive process too. I think in the country like we've, just everyone is just trying to get to a place where it's like cheaper, faster, more efficient, right, and we have to. I get it like as a manufacturer, we have to optimize. We just bought a new chocolate refiner, right, like ways to make the chocolate faster because we can't keep up with the demand. So I totally get it, but I don't. I think it's actually would be more time intensive to extract that. So I'm sure that they are just trying to do stuff.
Speaker 1:I have figured out how to make it in a lab, and I love that you keep saying that, and I think it's important to reiterate that it's really. This is none of this is a consumer's fault. Companies and our government, frankly, should be taking responsibility for regulating these kinds of things. You know, lavender and lavender are two very different things, but the consumer just sees the lavender D and then that's like it, and so it's not up to them to understand the difference between the two. And you're right you want more brands like you and founders like you to bring these you know, really amazing food products to the forefront so people can support you. A really amazing clean beauty company just went out of business because they couldn't compete, and I was just online telling people if you don't give your money to the brands that you believe in, they will go out of business.
Speaker 2:We just we need that demand. So where we bank on it is like economies of scale, right, and we've achieved that now with the bars, which is so exciting, and the chocolate. There's just so much involved in what we want to do, like chocolate tours at some points and like, oh my goodness, there's so much fun stuff to come, but there's so much that goes into it and I can only imagine I'm sure beauty is the same way and when you're making millions of products, things become easier. But you have to kind of bridge that gap. You know, in the beginning we were making tens of thousands of bars and now we're making hundreds of thousands of bars each time, right, that's where you start to be able to be like mass distributed, you start to get those margins that you need as a company to grow, but that you're also giving the consumer the right price point that you want to be at on the shelf.
Speaker 2:Most of the companies that are priced high like it's not, because I mean there are some companies that pride themselves on being a premium price brand, that is, they're a luxury product in the food space. That's few and far between, but they exist. But most products they want to compete, they want to be priced super excessively. It's just literally, they won't be able to physically pay their bills or make the product. So it's that's I appreciate all of you, all you're doing to help educate and to share, because that's exactly how like going to buy the product on the shelf, buying the product from the brand's website. That all helps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so much. Okay, that is a perfect segue. Where can people find your bars, where can people run and go buy them and when can they find more chocolate?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, such good questions. So we have a great website. We sell on Amazon as well too. The bars, the chocolate not yet on Amazon. We were out of stock on Amazon, so that's why, but the chocolate is now back in stock. We have two flavors back in stock on our website, so that's wonderful. One is about to sell out again. The woe is of being a small brand, but we can also find us in stores, so, where we have a store locator on our website, we're in almost 600 doors now. We're in all blue bottle cafes nationwide. We just launched there. We just launched into airports nationwide. East of Denver, we're in Rayleigh Central Market, airwan Market, foxtrot Market, all the iconic markets and we're trying to launch into larger grocery stores in 2024. So there's some exciting things coming your way.
Speaker 1:Okay, friends, go buy all the BTR bars, but please save the chocolate for me. Just kidding, go buy all of that too. Thank you for being here, ashley. This was such a joy. I hope we come back soon.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much.