Toxin Free (ish)

The Hidden Chemicals in Clothing: What Every Consumer Needs to Know with Hannah Dunning ✨Ep. 102

• Wendy Kathryn • Episode 102

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Your workout clothes are probably the most toxic items in your entire home - and you're wearing them while you sweat.

In this eye-opening conversation with Hannah Dunning, founder of The Hannah Dunning Project, we expose the alarming truth about chemicals in clothing. From BPA and phthalates to formaldehyde, the toxins lurking in your wardrobe are affecting your health every single day, especially in items like workout clothes and bras that sit directly on your skin.

The research is clear: your washing machine is one of the largest contributors to microplastics, and "sustainable" materials like bamboo aren't as natural as you think. We dive deep into the best and worst fabrics, why recycled polyester isn't the answer, and how to make better choices without overwhelming your budget.

Whether you're just starting your toxin-free journey or looking to take your clean living to the next level, this episode provides practical, realistic steps for detoxing your wardrobe. Learn what to swap first, how to identify truly clean materials, and why your clothing choices matter more than you might think for your overall health.

In today's episode, we're chatting about: 

• Why workout clothes and bras are the worst toxic offenders 

• The truth about bamboo fabric and recycled polyester 

• How to identify the cleanest, least toxic fabrics 

• Practical steps for detoxing your wardrobe on a budget 

• Why natural fibers are worth the investment for your health


Connect with Hannah: 

Download the Top 25 Toxins to Avoid and become a label reading pro! 

If you enjoyed this week's episode, please:

Speaker 1:

Well, welcome back to the Toxin-Free-ish Podcast. As always, I'm your host, wendy, an environmental toxins attorney turned clean living advocate, and today's episode is all about the toxic exposures lurking in your wardrobe, how to choose the cleanest, least toxic fabrics and where you should start your toxin-free clothing journey. And here's the thing your clothing is something you wear every single day. It goes on your skin and your body every single day, and if you're on a toxin-free journey, I hope after this episode, you consider the health impacts of what you choose to wear every day. Unfortunately, this was one of the last things that I chose to swap out in my toxin-free journey, because I honestly just didn't really think about it. And if the thought of potentially having to replace your entire wardrobe feels overwhelming or you're just unsure where to start, this episode is for you. Today, I'm joined by Hannah Dunning, the founder of the Hannah Dunning Project. Hannah is a researcher, advocate and soon-to-be author who's on a mission to expose the toxic underbelly of the fashion industry, and she's putting in the work to lobby for regulatory change, which she's a girl after my own heart. In this episode, we dove into the chemicals that are actually found on clothing things like BPA, phthalates, formaldehyde. We talk about why workout clothes and your bras are probably the worst offenders and the things that you should focus on swapping out first, how your washing machine is one of the largest contributors to microplastics, which is something that blew my mind. And then, of course, we talk about the best and worst fabrics to wear, everything from polyester all the way to bamboo, which, spoiler alert, is not as natural as you think, and then all the way to natural fibers like wool and organic cotton. And, because I always want to focus on solutions, by the end of this episode, we give you practical, realistic steps to help you start detoxing your wardrobe without breaking your bank. And because I always want to focus on solutions, by the end of this episode, we give you practical, realistic steps to help you start detoxing your wardrobe without breaking your bank. We're talking about what to swap first, the most important items to replace and how to make better choices moving forward, all in a way that's sustainable for your budget and your lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

Let's dive in, hannah. So I listened, I binged actually the Hannah Dunning project on Spotify prepping for this interview and your very first episode. Oh my God, I was hooked. I was totally hooked. You're such an amazing storyteller. You're super passionate about this and I can tell that you are so in the weeds, which as somebody who's an attorney in this world of toxins, who teaches about this stuff. It's hard when social media is full of people who are self-proclaimed experts, right, and as I'm listening to you, I'm like, oh, I want to talk to her about this. She knows what she's talking about. I love the things that you are putting together and I know you're also writing a book. We'll talk about that. But what brought you here? Like, why toxin-free clothing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much. That is so kind. It's really strange I know you know this really well to hear your own voice back at you and listen to all the things that come out of your own mouth. It can be so painful and scary. You and listen to all the things that come out of your own mouth. It can be so painful and scary, and especially on social media where you're just basically sacrificing yourself to the masses. It's really really freaky, and so I really appreciate that, and it's always really helpful to have feedback like that. So, thank you, I'm really happy to be here.

Speaker 2:

My story is, I think, just like anybody else's, which is a whole bunch of little events that sort of mounted up on each other and became this realization of oh, I want to focus on this, and it kind of happened on accident. It almost happened in a way, though at the same time, where it was meant for me. This whole time as well, it was inevitable, I felt. But that's me kind of looking back now and seeing all the little things that led me here, I think, at the time, or when I sort of led myself down a quote-unquote health journey which includes our clothes. It was really just trying to feel better. I just was tired of feeling sick or having reproductive issues or struggles with fertility and periods and feeling tired, and I was exhausted, frankly, by doctors shooing me away because I was young and on paper looked really healthy, and finally just decided to take things into my own hands and as I started to eliminate things and again, I think so many of us are on this same journey of focusing on food first and then you focus on, you know, the bathroom supplies and what you're cleaning your house with and so I sort of went down that checklist and then I got to the closet and I again it was kind of kismet. I was in a scenario where I just felt like God or the universe or whatever my higher power was like, hey, focus on the closet, like you're not thinking about a really big piece of your life that you wear every single day.

Speaker 2:

And I think, like a lot of young Americans especially, I was buying way too many outfits and pieces of clothing online. You know, breastfeeding up late at night, late at night, scrolling and ordering something off Amazon and kind of searching for dopamine hits, frankly, and finding that in shopping and then realizing that the stuff that I was putting on my body was having a really big impact emotionally, physically and even spiritually, which can sound really weird if you haven't thought about this before thinking about just buying clothes that way, but I think in our society today, materialism is probably one of the number one addictions and so, really kind of facing that head on, I then went looking for resources and started Googling hey, what's in our clothes? And, oh my gosh, our clothes are plastic. Okay Well, how is plastic made? Oh, all it is is chemicals. Okay Well, how are we making sure that they're not bad for us?

Speaker 2:

And if all these scientists and doctors are saying we shouldn't be eating plastic, what about putting it on our skin? So sort of just snowballed to a point where I realized, oh my gosh, no one is talking about this and this is arguably one of the most prevalent ways we're being exposed to really harmful chemicals and plastic. So that led me on this crazy journey and from there I started researching and got involved with universities and all these other amazing people who had sort of areas of expertise that weren't directly textiles, and we sort of pieced together this community of science and research and law and created a movement for textile justice, which is why we are here today.

Speaker 1:

I love it. It's such an inspiring story and it's almost embarrassing for me to say this, but it is so true. I, you know, I've been like you said what's in your cleaning supplies, what's in your laundry detergent, what's in your makeup, what's in your skincare? There's this checklist. I have a checklist. I actually provide a free checklist to people that are like I'm interested in lowering my toxic to move all my clothes.

Speaker 1:

And it was right at the time when you know the Lululemon, you know all of the PFAS, and Lululemon had kind of like hit the news and Sheen was, you know, under fire and we'll talk about all of these things, and then the airlines lawsuit, right. All these things were kind of like happening in the background, as I am like moving my whole closet full of clothes and, like many Americans, I went from, you know, being in an office every single day where I was wearing business clothing, things that are 100% plastic, polyester, you know the business type clothing that I do not wear anymore because I work from home. So I was like looking at all of this and I'm thinking in my head at the same time like I haven't worn any of this stuff in like five years since I started working from home. Why am I keeping it? But also, I started just reading the label to see what it was made out of, and I'm not even kidding when I say 90% of everything that I owned was 100% polyester, polyester, nylon. I mean even things that I thought were cotton, that looked cotton, that felt like cotton nope, not cotton.

Speaker 1:

And so you know even somebody in this world I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to get my last year. And so it's wild how news media, social media it's unfortunate when things happen like the whole Lululemon kind of got out. But it's like, well, thank God, thank God that almost the hysteria that came from that. Not because it created hysteria but because it actually got the topic out into the real world. So normal, everyday people who aren't necessarily like you and I, who are in this industry, they started talking about it.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. We call that idea of not having paid attention to it the elusive obvious. It's so close to us that we don't even realize, like we've never even questioned it before, and it can be really frightening to finally realize it for the first time because it's so close to us and it's so prevalent and it can seem so hopeless. I think that's where a lot of people give up, frankly, is when they realize the elusive obvious has been there the whole time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and let's talk about that for a second before we jump into, like some pretty heavy stuff. We won't keep it heavy, we'll keep it kind of light, but I do think this can be a really heavy topic because of you know, you can switch out your cleaner for eight bucks, right? You can switch out your laundry detergent and spend an extra couple of dollars. You can, you know, buy makeup or skincare that isn't really going to be that much more expensive than the toxic stuff that you were wearing. But I hear this all the time now, especially since I've been talking more and more about it how do you replace? Like the idea of replacing your entire wardrobe feels so overwhelming to people, strictly from a cost perspective, and so I do think this is something people put off and put off and put off because they are like I can't afford that, I can't afford it. Do you find that a lot in what you do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I think my first piece of advice for pretty much everyone is focus on a mindset shift first, because that's a controllable, that's something that you own inside of your head where you can say okay, I'm going to start thinking about the way that I buy and specifically the way that I buy clothing differently, meaning the next time I buy something one I'm going to ask do I actually need this? Because overconsumption is bad for a whole bunch of reasons, but health being arguably number one. Because the odds are is if you are shopping frequently, you are not vetting frequently. And I'm in this world deep enough to know that there are very few people or vendors or companies providing what we call non-toxic or clean clothing and those words can be controversial so let's say, clothing that doesn't have at least one very harmful chemical in it. It's very hard to find those and that in itself can feel overwhelming and daunting and annoying and probably make a lot of people angry, and you should be angry.

Speaker 2:

And that is sort of the spot where I say one, control the controllables, because the worst thing you can do for your health in general is to live in a stressed or fear-based environment and or mindset, that's when your immune system doesn't function properly. That's when you don't sleep well, that's when your cortisol levels skyrocket. So you're not doing yourself any favors by being stressed out. Okay, easier said than done. Obviously, when you find out about something that's so massive, natural response Right, and that makes sense and that's actually healthy because you, you know, our ancestors, survived because they were scared of the bear and, as a result, they ran. And if they didn't run and they didn't have that stress, you and I wouldn't be talking. So I think also, you can acknowledge that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing to acknowledge that something is not right and that it's, frankly, very dangerous. It's not a bad thing.

Speaker 2:

Acknowledge it. Figure out, okay, what can I do today, tomorrow, next year, and what do I not really have control over? Like, you really have to process those things. So it's kind of a mental game first, which is why I say that First, focus on your mindset first, which is why I say that first, focus on your mindset. The other thing to focus on is, in my opinion, is going to be getting rid of what you absolutely don't need, right? So, like you said, you had, you know, a bunch of polyester suits that you no longer wear Great, get rid of them, and it's not a perfect. It's not a perfect process because, okay, well, what does getting rid of them mean? Well, you're probably going to bag them up and take them to Goodwill or sell them on Mercari, or what have you Actually sent?

Speaker 1:

them to Trashy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah right, an amazing company who has an amazing mission. Still not perfect, because those plastic fibers have been created in the first place, and now they're out there, and now the chemicals are there and they're going to leach into somewhere and that's just inevitable, right? So that's why changing how we shop in the future is so powerful is because the toothpaste is sort of out of the tube in a lot of senses. So that's why, okay, get it off your body, right, like get it off your body, and then focus on moving forward in a really healthy way, which, frankly, doesn't always have to be expensive, because the amount of stuff we buy every day is insane. We buy way too much and it's expensive.

Speaker 1:

You know it's crazy. So let's walk through kind of step by step. I think this is something we should take in chunks. Let's start with the chemicals that are actually found being sprayed on our clothing and then from there we can kind of dive into fabrics a little bit. So when I very first started like kind of accepting that this was something that I needed to start looking at, it was definitely the Alaska Airlines, and then after that the American Airlines, the stewardesses that had sued and said, hey, there are all of these chemicals that are being sprayed on our uniforms. These are the chemicals that make things stain resistant, wrinkle resistant, the things that make your uniform and oh, by the way, this is also like kids' school uniforms too so things that are specifically made for that kind longevity, to keep things for a long time.

Speaker 1:

And it was wild All of the chemicals that they found that were a part of that clothing. And you know it was allergies, it was asthma, it was eczema, it was people getting sick constantly. And Harvard actually did a study that basically said, yes, the introduction of these new uniforms caused all of these illnesses and I mean like real acute illnesses. So what are kind of the things that are sprayed on fabrics before they're sold, and why are these things sprayed on clothing?

Speaker 2:

There is such an extensive list of chemicals that are used in virtually every piece of fabric, and I hate the way I sound saying that, because it would sound way better to say, oh, here's what you can avoid. Don't buy X, y, z. Unfortunately, where we are at today, it is unavoidable, unless you are very, very picky with the company itself and their mission Meaning if they are not completely mission-driven towards a chemical-free, harmless piece of clothing. I'd be willing to bet that virtually every other piece of clothing has a whole concoction of chemicals associated. Now, some are worse than others, and you're mentioning the airline lawsuit, right, where the stewardess groups and also I guess it wasn't just flight attendants, brought that forth with crazy symptoms, just like you said, some small. But there is even a lawsuit directly related to cancer in which the plaintiff said that it was because of the clothes.

Speaker 2:

So there are chemicals that are worse than others and these chemicals are typically hiding in clothing, like with what you mentioned, that are waterproof, water resistant, stain resistant, fire retardant, etc. Etc. So avoiding those big sort of like marketing keywords we'll them is a good place to start to minimize the really, really bad stuff that could have detrimental impacts. But, frankly, we have things like PFAS that aren't labeled at all, or phthalates that aren't labeled at all, or BPA that's not labeled at all, hiding in a lot of our clothes yeah, including baby clothes right On infants, which is a really tragic thing considering that their body mass or the body weight compared with their surface area is so small, so it can have detrimental impacts. So I can't give a list of the chemicals that are used. It is every single day there is a race to come up with some breaking new, you know chemical that does X, y, z, you know God knows what right. I think it was Mr Incredible that we were watching the other night with my kids and there's this scene where they unveil. It may have been the second Incredibles, but they unveil this new super suit and they shoot like lasers and fire and all the things that could potentially kill a superhero, and the suit kept him completely safe and clean and unaffected. And I just had to laugh because I feel like that's exactly what they're going for today. It doesn't matter what chemical is used, what material, it doesn't matter if there's like some crazy radioactive whatever. If the consumer is excited about the fact that a marker won't stay on it, it doesn't matter. So, to wrap that all up, the big ones are like the keywords I shared.

Speaker 2:

But, frankly, the reason why it's important that you and I are talking is because this is so pervasive, sneaky and problematic that we can't just say, oh, just shop from these companies and avoid these. It is everywhere and that's why, really, in my opinion, legislation and regulation is the only way to move forward, while at the same time pressuring companies with our dollar, of course, and asking companies directly to start offering better products without harmful chemicals. But I genuinely believe in today's day and age that if the government does not crack down hard on this, nothing is going to change. And, frankly, we've seen that historically and I have a whole bunch of examples that I'd love to talk about, but I hope that again. I wish I could sound more positive, but it really is important Like listen, you and I and everyone who's listening is blessed to live in the 21st century.

Speaker 2:

That is the truth. There's crazy stuff going on and it's really hard out there for a lot of people. We see awful things on social media, but at the end of the day, we are talking on an iPhone in an air-conditioned room with lights over us and Wi-Fi and we're sending people to space and we can do surgery in utero on unborn babies. It's the 21st century. Part of the burden of having all of these incredible things that we have is the really speaking up when we get too far ahead of ourselves, right, and when we're innovating too fast to the point where we're not recognizing the damage we can have on ourselves. That is the burden I believe we hold okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree with you completely and I talk about this all the time. The reason why we have PFAS contamination all the way up to the Arctic Circle, where people don't even live, and the reason why we have all of these plasticizers like phthalates and everything, and the reason why our brains have all these microplastics in it and we'll talk about that is because industry just put this stuff out in the world and was like, oh my gosh, this stuff's amazing. We're going to change the world with all of these chemicals. And there was really no thought and if there was a thought, it was ignored that I wonder what this would do to human biology. And that is the downside of what everyone's experiencing now. We put all these plastics, these single-use plastics, we put all of this polyester, all this clothing, we put all of this into the universe where all of our, where the humans live, where we all live, and we've been consuming it now for so long and the exposure is starting to lead to serious illness, to fertility issues, to and maybe these all the microplastics that are now found in our brain, you know, is that causing the increase in dementia, like there's? So there's more questions than there are answers at this point? Absolutely, and that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. But I do think there are small steps that people can take.

Speaker 1:

But first I want to go. So, okay, we have all those chemicals that are being sprayed and the testing that on some of these uniforms did show phthalates, bpa and other bisphenols other than BPA, as far as formaldehyde, flame retardants, all of these things that my community knows. Oh, I shouldn't have that in my skincare or shampoo, but you also should not have it on your clothing. But now we get into this whole the fabric itself. I genuinely did not know polyester was plastic until a few years ago and, again, super embarrassed. But if I didn't even know that, most people don't even know that, of course, and you know, like you said, the next thing that you buy, let's kind of walk through the fabric and kind of from I don't know worst to best, in my opinion, tell me if you think I'm wrong. Anything that says that it is nylon or polyester, that is like all plastic and I'm not buying it.

Speaker 1:

And that in my mind is the worst.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would agree, and it's funny because that's especially as moms or women. It's become the trend, like Lululemon has done a fantastic job of infiltrating our brains and telling us that every mom has to own a pair of Lululemon leggings. And my friends are not excluded. So I'll be out and you know we'll be playing pickleball or going for a walk or whatever. And the amount of shame they have when they show up. I don't even say anything and they're like oh, just so you know, I am wearing my polyester legging.

Speaker 2:

So I'd first like to address that. There's zero judgment and, frankly, I, up until a few years ago, still wore a little bit of it and I finally got to a point where I just couldn't stomach it anymore once I realized what it is. But that doesn't mean I judge other people and that's why I do what I do, because we all deserve to know and have a choice and, frankly, right now, most people don't know. Therefore, they don't have a choice, and I think that that is, at best, negligence, but at worst I think it's diabolical that we're walking around unknowingly wearing stuff that can really harm us and so just want to preface it with that Zero informed consent going on there.

Speaker 2:

Correct, and, on top of that, I also don't want to demonize people who are in different financial brackets or what have you Think? When you're in my world and you talk to scientists and researchers and innovators in a very specific space all day long, it can get really easy to forget what the average person is thinking about, and the chemical compound of polyamides is typically not one of those things. So I think it's important also to acknowledge that. Just abandon the idea of being perfect, and I think when you're in a non-toxic, quote-unquote world and that's sort of the lifestyle that you have taken on it can be really easy to have a perfectionist mindset, and I think that that can be very harmful and overwhelming for people.

Speaker 2:

And so, before I say the best fabrics and the worst, I just want also to acknowledge that perfectionism in the world we live in today is impossible, and don't shoot for that. Just shoot for being better, and you'll feel better as a result, because you'll have hope paired with better options, and that's a winning combo. People who have perfect options which they really aren't perfect but fear aren't doing themselves any favors. Okay, so I just want to start with that.

Speaker 1:

No, I love that. I'm so glad you said that because I completely agree with everything that you've just said and I feel like what that needs to do on a billboard all over social media, like you know, leading with fear is not. You know, I always say stress is the worst toxin there is.

Speaker 2:

So Absolutely Really quick plug and then I'll. I promise I'll answer your question, but there is a book called I think it's I'll double check for you after for show notes but I believe it's called Buried Feelings Never Die, is the name of it for sure, buried Feelings Never Die. Her first name's Carol. I'm forgetting her last name, but it's all about thoughts and the frequencies they have, and it will change your life. And if you're questioning the power of thinking because I think most of us are like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess what you think matters, yeah, whatever, but once you understand the science of it, it will rock your world and you will be very protective of your thoughts. So would highly recommend that book to literally everyone.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to go buy it right now.

Speaker 2:

It's so good.

Speaker 2:

After this interview If you want to buy it right now, while we're talking, I won't judge you. But yeah, so best fabrics for me. I guess let's start with when I went into my closet, what did I eliminate first and kind of move forward from there To your point? Absolutely, polyester and nylon, in my humble opinion, are two of the worst, definitely fabrics. Again, I don't even call them fabrics, they're materials. Okay, there's nothing about them.

Speaker 2:

That's a fabric, they're just a different kind of plastic. It's the same plastic you sit on when you go to a park and sit on a bench. It's just that they've added thousands of more chemicals to make it stretchy and restrictive. So I would definitely start with the plastic in your closet and I always recommend using chat GPT for confusing sciencey questions. And so if you're confused on a fabric, ask chat GTP if it's plastic or what it's made out of. And that's a really kind of quick way. Disclaimer you should always double check chat GPT for important things. Like it's not always right, but I'm just saying like, when you're in your closet and there's something like Lycra or Elastane, what have you? And they're starting to now that they're realizing that people are reading their clothing labels the way that they read ingredients on food. They're starting, of course, to change the names and they're long and confusing, or some of them are cute and sound cool, but look it up.

Speaker 2:

If it's plastic, do not wear it, or really try not to wear it. There are exceptions with, like sports jerseys, wear a cotton shirt underneath. People are like, oh, it's too hot. Okay, I live in Hawaii, I wear cotton when I have to wear a sports jersey and I'm fine. Okay, it's about priorities. You have to prioritize what's most important to you, so start with the plastic. I would eliminate that what I did when we were on a pretty tight budget when I started this journey, I sold all of my old plastic clothes on Mercari and I think one's called like thrift up, I don't know. There's several apps now.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot now yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you can sell them. And is that a perfect answer? No, of course not, because somebody else is going to wear the stuff that none of us should be wearing. However, I wanted money to then go buy and support businesses who were making better things for my body, for the environment. What have you? So again, I am crucified, often for saying, oh, sell your old plastic. Yes, I know somebody else will be wearing it For me. People wear it anyways. I'm doing all I can to bring awareness. So I sold it to use the money for good.

Speaker 1:

As long as if they're buying a used one from you, I mean, that's a little bit better.

Speaker 2:

I think so. In a perfect world they wouldn't make any new plastic, but we are not there yet no-transcript to eat fish out of them because of that. So get rid of those things and or try not to wear them. And then that's probably where I would start for, quote unquote worst fabrics. What I would focus on moving forward is as much linen as you can stomach.

Speaker 2:

Linen is amazing. I have a couple friends who can't stand the feeling, and I understand, but for me, I'm obsessed with linen. It is one of the most incredible fabrics our world has to offer and, by the way, has had to offer for thousands and thousands of years. It used to be used in hospitals to speed up healing in the hospital beds, which is why we call our sheets typically linens. It was used for mummies in ancient Egypt, which is part of the reason why we have mummies to study today, because it was so protective that they were able to preserve bodies for thousands of years. There are incredible things about linen, including a study that was done on frequencies, which I always hesitate to reference, purely because there's only one study done on the frequencies of fabrics and I do not stand by anything that has only had one study done. However, from what I know about frequencies in general, from what I know about frequencies in general, I have great reason to believe this particular study and hope that way more studies are done to prove this theory. Okay, so linen, amazing.

Speaker 1:

Second fabric. I have much linen and, I have to say, because this is gaining steam. So the company made the label has the cutest linen clothes and I think they're accessible. So the company Mate the Label has the cutest linen clothes and I think they're accessible. They have Black Friday sales and it may not be the like and all be all of the best linen in the world. So for people who are like really overwhelmed and don't even know where to start when a company like Mate the Label, who has a lot of linen options, has a Black Friday sale, they had a lot of linen dresses, they had a lot of linen jumpers, things that I was like, well, I'll just wear that every day and I'm somebody who likes the feel of linen.

Speaker 1:

Linen does not bother me at all whatsoever. And that was kind of last Black Friday not the last one, but the one before I kind of bought a bunch of the stuff in bulk and started wearing it every day. And it's funny because now when I put on polyester I hate it. Like you said, you get that feeling in your stomach. I just did a photo shoot and I wore a shirt that was polyester and the whole time I was like I just don't feel good in this. I want to put my cotton back on, I want to put my linen back on. I think my body has adjusted to those natural fibers and I don't want the plastic stuff anymore.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and again, that's that mentality aspect of it will change your life. You will feel so much better. I have teenage sisters who just hate the thought of you know, wearing only natural fibers because, frankly, we have so few cute quote unquote options today. That's natural, so I understand, especially being a young girl. But, that being said, what I try to explain to them is look good, feel good. It's an old saying but it's so true. If you feel good, you are going to feel like you look better. And the opposite is also true.

Speaker 2:

Once you start wearing clothing where, mentally, you know that you're doing something good for body and planet and people also because, frankly again, that's a whole other side of this equation is exploitation of labor. It's one of the reasons why almost all of our clothes are made in foreign countries today, one of the largest human rights crisis we're facing today. That pretty much goes silent. Once you understand that all of those things are coming together, mentally it feels incredible. But anyways, this topic is so deep and nuanced I could talk about so many different moving pieces but linen is amazing.

Speaker 2:

As we have this conversation more and more, we will continue to get more options, and that's a positive aspect of it. Wool is also great and kind of has a bad rap, I think, for feeling itchy and heavy and being really hot. But merino wool and the reason why sheep have merino wool is because it actually keeps them cool in the summer and also warm in the winter. It's an amazing fiber, if, if you will, that has incredible antimicrobial capabilities, water wicking capabilities, etc.

Speaker 1:

Naturally without chemicals.

Speaker 2:

Correct. Yes, and it's incredible to learn more and more about sheep and how it's done. I think I get crucified online with PETA people and whatever for promoting wool, but it's done. I think I get crucified online with like PETA people and whatever for promoting wool. But it's just as a disclaimer here. It is unethical to not shear a sheep. It is unethical. It doesn't do them any good. It's very uncomfortable for them because of the way that we've bred sheep, which is a whole thing. So wool is amazing.

Speaker 2:

I have found an amazing wool bathing suit and I don't gatekeep, even though they run out of stock all the time, because they're a small business and so many people want their wool bathing suit. But there's a company called Simply Merino. Simply Merino it is Canadian. Yeah, I need one. We'll see what tariffs and our new administration does in terms of Canadian products, but I'm hoping that Canadian clothing will still be accessible to us. But Simply Merino has an amazing wool bathing suit.

Speaker 2:

The next fabric for me is probably hemp. It's really hard to find. There's a few companies doing it really well, although, with the stigma we have around hemp and marijuana and all that, I find that the companies using it tend to adhere towards like a younger audience, which is really interesting. But Afens A-F-E-N-D-S is a great company making hemp products and there are a couple other ones. I'm hoping that as we start to get more familiarized with the benefits of hemp, it won't be so nuanced, it will be or fringe. It'll be more commonplace, because hemp is incredible it doesn't need a lot of water. It's antimicrobial as well. There's amazing benefits to hemp and you can really use it in a pretty diverse, viable way when it comes to clothing and textiles. So hemp is great. You can make hemp stretch right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes. And that's one of the things that's hard about natural fibers is getting stretch, but hemp is something that can stretch.

Speaker 2:

I will be the first to tell you there are so many different ways to come up with stretch, naturally. Now, is it the same as the butter, what I forget? I think it's called the align series, I can't remember, but like lululemon's, you know, trademark buttery, soft, like sucks it all in. Looks like you had liposuction material, no, but can you get a comfortable stretch where there's some movement and you can work out in it and feel good? Absolutely. We have textile scientists. That's a movement and you can work out in it and feel good? Absolutely. We have textile scientists, that's a thing, and they're all over the world. We have incredible, incredible chemists and people who are coming up with insane ideas, like seaweed for packaging and innovative materials like tensile lyocell. There are so many people who have dedicated their life to research. It just needs to be channeled in the right way, and so you can get excited about that and know that the more you demand a certain thing, the more these people are enabled to channel their learnings, teachings, wisdom, expertise towards a really awesome option for the future. So that's another positive spin. I'll give you another positive spin that I think is really important in a second.

Speaker 2:

But so hemp, I love silk, silk. Again, I get in trouble from people because silkworms are used, but in general I love thrifting silk. I find these old amazing pieces that are silk and make me feel incredible. That same study where I talked about linen having a really high frequency linen, or silk, has a low frequency. So I get a lot of people telling me, oh, we shouldn't wear silk.

Speaker 2:

One of the things with frequencies and you'll start to see this conversation pop up the further you get in, sort of like the textile world or the clothing world. We, we don't have proof that that low frequency hurts you. It just doesn't necessarily help you, and so that's my only caveat is like if you wear silk and you feel good, wear it. If you feel, if you wear silk and you don't feel great, then don't wear it. But just a little side note there on silk. Let's see. Then we have organic cotton is sort of my like overarching go-to, right. I wouldn't even put it in the order of any of them, because it's just a really awesome basic that we should all have. Frankly, it's a way better alternative to cotton, which is called the world's dirtiest crop. It's doused with insecticides, pesticides et cetera, because think of cotton.

Speaker 1:

It requires a lot of water.

Speaker 2:

A lot of water, all of which is completely polluted with all these crazy chemicals and causes cancer throughout the world. So it's a very selfish crop too for the people wearing it, because it's making the farmers, it's making the towns that are usually in rural and poor communities very sick. I don't know how they have cancer clusters as a result. So cotton is not great. The nature of it, of course, is fluffy and vulnerable. You get tons of bugs, all that kind of stuff, so that's why they douse it.

Speaker 2:

Organic cotton is a way, way, way better alternative when it comes to the chemical spray. It still requires a lot of water, but there are regenerative ways to do it and there's been a lot of research and advancement, specifically in the United States, by a woman called Sally Fox. So if you really want to go the nerd route, research Sally Fox. We call her the mother of organic cotton and she has incredible stories with companies like Levi's and Patagonia and all these companies who, for a second, tried to do the organic thing and then abandoned it because of cost. So that's a whole nother rabbit hole you can look over.

Speaker 2:

But I love organic cotton. It's becoming way more prevalent, even on thrifting apps. So I would say go look at thrifting apps and just type in organic cotton. You might find nothing. You might find a gem. And remember, we should be buying less anyways. So it's good that it's hard to find clothes. We shouldn't be able to get online every second of every day and buy, you know, 20 different shirts in two minutes or whatever. That's not sustainable for anyone mind, body, spirit.

Speaker 1:

So it's not necessarily a bad thing. Can we pause there for a second too, because this is something that I think it's such a mindset shift and this goes into the like fast fashion. But it also really just goes into consumerism in general, this idea that all these Amazon hauls and these shopping hauls that are all over social media and the Amazon dupe world that's out there, that's become so commercialized. When I was growing up, yeah, I liked to buy things, but it was not like it is today. We have so normalized overconsumption. And I want to talk about cost just for a second, because people say to me, like Azomi, that's the sheets that I use. I tell everybody like it's chemical-free, they use organic cotton. Now they've moved into the regenerative cotton space. They're just really incredible. The dyes are plant-based. It's just something I really love.

Speaker 1:

And people are like, oh, it's so expensive. It's like $250 for a set of sheets. Those sheets are going to last you 20 years. In 20 years you're still going to be washing those sheets and they're still going to be really, really good quality and they're not going to fall apart and they're going to be amazing. I tell people this with cookware too, you can go buy crappy, sprayed, pfas-free, nonstick coating cookware that's going to last you maybe a year, maybe two if you're lucky, and then you're going to have to go replace it and it's just going to be a bunch of waste. But if you just bought one really good quality cast iron pan or my favorite, our place makes a titanium pan with no coating, it'll last me.

Speaker 1:

I will pass that down to my child, like I tell my daughter when we're cooking, I'm like one day this pain will be yours and it's the only thing that I cook on and that cost me so much less money because I only had to buy it one time. But it's almost like our brains won't allow us anymore, because we're being fed and manipulated, this overconsumption idea that, oh, if I buy this polyester shirt on sheen for like $3 and the thought is not in people's heads, well, I'm going to wear that once or twice and then it's just going to be destroyed anyway and I'm polluting. And don't get me started on the labor week. That could be a whole episode in and of itself. But I remember my daughter when she got her very first green light debit card and a freaking sheen package showed up at my doorstep. I my son was like do you know who our mom is?

Speaker 1:

and just walked away like and I got online and showed her videos of the piles of clothing overseas, of the people sleeping in those sweatshops, of the list of that report that came out. Was it South Korea that tested sheen products? I mean, we're talking phthalates of orders of magnitude of thousands and thousands, like percentages higher than like what people can even fathom, and I'm like this is it's criminal. I'm like it is criminal that they exist.

Speaker 2:

It should be criminal. The conversation is interesting when I inevitably can look on any of my videos talking about clothes and you will see a bunch of people saying like that's privilege, I'm poor, et cetera, et cetera. When you buy cheap clothing, you're just taking advantage of somebody else, and I understand that there are lots of places in the United States where people are living under the poverty level and don't know where their next meal is coming from. So I don't want to sound tone deaf at all. That's why we fight so hard for regulation and legislation to protect people who don't have options to protect themselves. I want to make that very clear. That's 99% of what I do is fighting on that side. Now the other side is the people who do have the privilege of buying new clothing in a year. Okay, Because statistically speaking, we're by 90% more than what we need and never touching it. So I'm speaking to most of us when I say stop buying stuff by literally one probably 50th of what you buy typically in a year. Compile that money to support a business that is using fair wage practices as well as using materials that don't make our body and the planet sick. If it's bad for the planet, it's bad for our body. If it's bad for our body, it's bad for the planet. Those two things are true, which is actually typically where I diverge from the true environmentalists, because what they actually are pushing in a lot of senses is for recycling Recycling as a whole. We can do a whole nother.

Speaker 2:

Conversation about this is a complete sham. For the most part, it was created by oil companies first and foremost. The whole recycling push was created by oil companies who didn't want to stop making plastic, so they had to come up with another way to make it. Okay, Recycled plastic is the worst thing you could put on your body. It disintegrates easier and it's used with way more chemicals than regular plastic. It's terrible, and so no, buying recycled polyester is doing nobody any favors, and in fact, the people making the recycled polyester are the same people making the polyester. It's just another avenue for revenue for them. They love it. They love recycled polyester. Patagonia is working with one of the largest polyester no, the single largest polyester producer in India to make their planet-friendly recycled polyester line Laughable, I see this a lot and in my opinion, it's worse.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I actually see this. There's actually brands out there that are making like 80% of what they sell is like natural fibers, but then they have, like this collection that has like the recycled polyester thrown in there. So I always have to tell people it's really hard to recommend brands because there are so few that are actually like 100% using natural fibers that you have to read the product description to avoid the recycled polyester because it is very popular and this argument has been made in so many places. People tell me when I talk about natural fragrances oh, safe synthetics made from petroleum is safer for the environment, it's better for the environment, it's more eco-friendly. Just like petroleum-derived clothing is quote unquote better because you're not wasting water and cotton and natural resources, right? This total BS argument that's made, and I agree with you If it's bad for the environment, it's bad for our bodies, period. There's no exception to that.

Speaker 2:

What about bamboo? I think a really important point to bring up in this. Yeah, bamboo. I get so much heat for this because people think they're doing so good by buying bamboo, and I understand the sentiment. But bamboo traditionally is really gnarly. It's not good.

Speaker 2:

They use carbon disulfide, which is one of the most toxic chemicals out there in terms of production, especially when it comes to textiles. There's a book on it called Fake Silk. It's really good, also really terrifying, and it depicts exactly what happens when factory workers were using carbon disulfide throughout history. And we're still using that stuff, despite people going clinically insane after having exposure to it. And bamboo is obviously very hard. It's a wood, it's a tree essentially, and it is necessary to use something harsh quote-unquote to break down the wood. Now, carbon disulfide, for whatever reason. They discovered it could do a whole bunch of things and rayon became really popular. And then bamboo became popular because it's cheap, it grows really fast, doesn't use a lot of water, you don't need pesticides because it has that hard shell. So it's great in theory, except for we're still using this chemical.

Speaker 2:

Now there are companies who use, or rather manufacturers who use, things like natural enzymes in place of carbon disulfide, and that's great. I love bamboo if they're using natural enzymes. It's just that 98 plus percent of manufacturing, as far as we know today, is using carbon disulfide in their manufacturing process. And you'll have I get companies all the time who their entire lines are bamboo and they're eco-friendly and non-toxic. And then I ask them are you using carbon disulfide? Yeah, and they'll say yes, and then I, and then I'm like, but they're like, but we test our fabric. Great, I don't trust you. Sorry, if you're using carbon disulfide and you're claiming to be non-toxic or eco-friendly, I don't trust you because those two cannot be true at the same time.

Speaker 2:

So am I going to risk putting my newborn baby in a bamboo onesie where carbon disulfide was used? No, I'm not. Other people might. That's fine, but so that's my take on bamboo. It's not worth the risk for me unless I can find a company using natural enzymes.

Speaker 2:

Today, in terms of kid stuff, I literally only know of one, and it's a small business. It's just a stay-at-home mom. She's incredible. She has like the cutest designs. She gets what are they called? I don't know, it's not patents, but she gets trademark capabilities through Disney and she has like Disney collections and stuff and she uses natural enzymes in her bamboo pajamas. It's called Charlie Lou Baby, I think.

Speaker 2:

And, by the way, all the businesses that I've shared I don't have any affiliation with, just to make that clear. I just like promoting businesses who I think are doing good things. But one thing I really want to touch on with Amazon, because you brought that up and I think it's really important to talk about, because I think this is one of the most urgent things today, frankly, that nobody talks about when it comes to, specifically companies like Amazon, because they really sort of paved the way for dropshipping and the concept of dropshipping, and you'll start to see states like California or Maine and there's a few other who have kind of watered down versions of what these two states are doing pass laws pertaining to, for example, pfas in textiles. So it's great in theory and it's a very small step forward in many ways. However, when you have companies like Amazon, they bypass every regulation essentially.

Speaker 2:

There's a couple that they could get in trouble for, but because all of the manufacturing, selling, et cetera is done overseas, it's not applicable to them in the United States. So like, for example, in California, if you're a mom, you know breastfeeding late at night and you hop on Amazon, even though it's illegal to sell and manufacture a baby onesie with PFAS in it in the state of California. If you get on Amazon and buy that onesie from China, where it's completely legal and they have essentially no regulations, they can drop, ship it to your house and there's a baby onesie with PFAS in it, totally legal. It's a gray area, I should say, meaning they're never going to get in trouble for it because it's a loophole in the system. So that's a whole another reason, aside from the major human rights infractions, of course, and the ethical questioning of overconsumption, health, when it comes to companies like that, is massive. It's not just Sheen, it's not just Timu, it's not all these companies that the other companies love to blame because it takes the spotlight off of them.

Speaker 1:

They're like yeah, go hate them.

Speaker 2:

We're different. Using online shipping Correct, they're not. They're the same. That's why sweeping regulation is needed. I'm a fan of little government. I want to be clear about that. I think states should have a lot of control in a lot of different areas. That's just my opinion. Hate it or love it when it comes to stuff like this, I personally believe that there is a war on health through things like textiles. Why are we letting our greatest adversaries produce all of our stuff with essentially zero regulation? Do you think China gives a rat's eye about what our kids are wearing? I don't think so. I really don't, and I'm not trying to be negative or fear mongering.

Speaker 1:

Less than that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, correct, it might even make them happy. You could go out on a limb and say I'm not just targeting China okay, there are tons of other countries who, frankly, targeting the United States health is a really good strategic business and military plan, and so for us and unfortunately we may even have to start talking about it like that to get attention, because it absolutely does qualify as a health risk. Okay, especially when it comes to things like masks. So we could go down so many different rabbit holes, but the point being is, if we don't have some kind of agency task force, definitely regulations, laws around chemicals and clothing etc. It will continue to be a free-for-all for basically every manufacturing company out there.

Speaker 1:

I am 5,000% on board, and when this interview is over, you and I are going to become close friends, because I already do this, but I do it separately from you. So my whole thing, too is there's this whole world out there of people who care an awful lot, that don't know what to do with how much they care, and one of my platforms going into the future is teaching moms how to be an army, how to be an army of how to pick up the phone, how to call their representatives, how to advocate for things like this. Because, as a lobbyist, as somebody who's been lobbying for over 15 years in the federal government for environmental regulation, toxins regulation more people would just pick up the phone. We could make a tremendous difference. But people are. They don't believe that they can make a difference because they've never been told hey, if you pick up the phone and call your congressman, they actually will like oh, someone of my constituents cares about this, I should care about this, and they don't recognize their power at all.

Speaker 2:

I love that you said that. I think it's very important to say this, which is never underestimate a mom and I know we all know this in theory, because you know, if we are a mom and you have kids, you know you would do anything for them. But that doesn't stop when it comes to things like regulation and, yes, calling your representative. But I also love to give people hardcore examples of this, and, of course, it's not just moms. Anyone can advocate and do amazing things. My husband is a full supporter of all of this and I love him for it. But there's just a difference. When you have that maternal just I don't know mama bear instinct, nobody can take it away from you and you are the most powerful force in existence. Time and time again, specifically with litigation, as you know well, we have, yes, the flight attendants. Okay, that was a powerful group of women who were fed up and came together and did something about it. Okay, and they won and they got, you know, I think, a million dollars, which is nowhere near what they need.

Speaker 2:

But they also set a precedent for the ability to sue clothing manufacturers. That's massive. On top of that, the whole entire reason why your baby's bottle doesn't have BPA in it recently, unfortunately, is because a group of moms created a advocacy group together called Moms Rising, and they got fed up and did something about it and as a result, the FDA banned BPA in baby bottles. Then we can also look in history with things like the radium girls. You know they were painting watches with self-illuminating radium and it was making them very sick and in fact it was for a long time actually pushed back and disproved by XYZ doctors and scientists, but the moms ended up or the women rather, ended up winning.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just saying never, ever, underestimate a mother, and when our kids are being affected, when our house is being affected, we can do something about it. We have done something about it. So I just always like to say that as an encouragement of like no, we're not going to be able to keep the oil companies from making plastic and the chemical companies from putting it on the plastic, but we can demand that it has perimeters, that we have the ability to know also what's in our clothes and that the really harmful stuff is not allowed in story. It's illegal. We can do that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I always say we need to. You know what regulation does is it creates a new baseline. And when you create a new baseline, a new minimum requirement that impacts the entire industry, then you push the entire industry closer and closer and closer, being better, and that, even though those baby steps don't feel huge, they do have huge impacts, huge, hugely positive impacts. So I want to leave everyone with just kind of like if you're new to this and you're listening to this episode, you're like oh my god, all of my cleansers are toxic. You know, I kind of have my list of where I would tell people and I do tell people. To start, I would love to hear if you think that I'm going about it the right way because you are the expert on this topic. But I always say start with workout clothes. So if you're sweating in something, that heat is releasing all those chemicals and that is like number one, workout clothes Don't work out in plastic. Number one. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2:

We're on the same page.

Speaker 1:

So I always say workout clothes, focus on workout clothes, especially if you're somebody who works out every day, which you should be active every day, you should be sweating every day. That is just like baseline for your health. And then I always say underwear, bras, socks those are kind of like the things that you wear underneath and your private parts and whatever. And then, number three, I always say the basics, the T-shirts, the basics of what you put on your skin every single day. I wear T-shirts every single day. Focus on the things that touch your skin.

Speaker 1:

So I still have a lot of things that go over my clothing. That isn't necessarily perfect, but I still feel okay because my t-shirt is organic cotton. And then the next thing I tell people is your sheets, like what you sleep in. I talk a lot about this, about your sheets and your pillow cases and what. It's eight hours, hopefully, a night that you're in these things. And then the last one is slowly, if you need something new or whatever, slowly choose better one at a time. For the rest, so that is how I and honestly, I think the reason why that list exists in my head and why I talk about it so much is because that's what I did and that made sense to me. So what do you think about my checklist?

Speaker 2:

No, I honestly I think it's amazing. I would say, from the research I've done on women's hormones and how they're impacted by clothing specifically, I would personally what I say is start with bras for every woman, before anything, because the proximity to our most vulnerable endocrine receptors are in our breasts and with our skyrocketing levels of hormone impacted breast cancer. There is serious question as to what is directly causing this. That's changed in x amount of years and one of the major factors considered by a large amount of doctors in the oncology space is bras. So because, especially with the chemicals they're adding in there, we're finding in especially sports bras, bpa, phthalates, parab, all kinds of things that are directly causing cancer and we can now actually say that without getting in trouble, it directly can cause cancer. So that is the only little thing is I would start with a bra for every woman, for especially young women.

Speaker 2:

When you're going through hormonal changes, naturally anyways, you're more susceptible to any kind of manipulation hormonally.

Speaker 2:

So if you are going through puberty or menopause or breastfeeding you just had a baby those are extremely, extremely susceptible groups to the terrible stuff that's in our bras. So that would be the only thing I would change a little bit. And then the other thing I would add, on top of all the great things you said too, is be really conscious of your dryer and your washer, because those from an environmental standpoint especially, it's a huge contributor, if not the greatest contributor, to PFAS in our water, because all of the stuff from your clothing is going straight into our water systems. And then drying it also activates the harmful chemicals and additives, making it more toxic for you and your family when you open the dryer and you're sucking it all in. So that's the only other thing I would add is also pay attention to your washer and your dryer. Wash it less and then air dry. Even people in cold climates can air dry, by the way. So that's the only thing I would add. Your list is amazing and it's an awesome place to start.

Speaker 1:

I love that comment. So I lived in Italy for five years working for the US government, and nobody uses dryers. That's like a stupid American thing. It's just so funny how you go into other cultures and you're just like, oh, this is so normal for us, but over here they literally think we're crazy.

Speaker 2:

It's incredible also how long your clothes will last if you're line drying or air drying. And then just one quick thing too, on plastic we're now finding that the number one pollutant for plastic in our oceans is the residential washer. Plastic in our oceans is the residential washer, so that's a pretty incredible statistic for where all this plastic nanoplastics, microplastics, all that are coming from. A lot of it has to do with you and me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's wild. Well, hannah, I have a feeling you and I are not just going to be friends and working together, but I'm going to have you back on the podcast. This is something that I want to keep talking about. I think it's something that needs more attention, not less attention, and I'm just appreciate you being here. Where can my community and I have a very engaged, amazing community who loves to follow and learn from people just like you? Where can they find you and what comes next for you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I would love to come back. It's really hard to get through a really complicated, heavy topic that is scary for a lot of people in an hour. So I appreciate your ability to ask good questions and I'd love to talk more about the nitty gritty details and different avenues of ways we can change and help. But in terms of where to follow me, most of my work is just done on Instagram. When it comes to the education aspect. Right now, my Instagram is Hannah H-A-N-N-A-H Dunning, with two N's 11 at Instagram. So what is it? Hannah Dunning? 11.

Speaker 2:

And then my email would probably be best, too, for people who have interest in getting involved with advocacy work. So, basically, what you need to know about me is most of what I do is behind the scenes. As you mentioned before, I'm writing a book. I'm also working on getting tasks forced together to advocate for change. There's a whole bunch of stuff that, frankly, I don't really talk about yet, just simply because we're kind of gathering the troops quote unquote and so if anyone has a passion or interest in really being a part of that in some shape or form, especially if you have a background in chemistry or litigation or what have you. Please email me at theartofcleanliving11 at gmailcom. That's sort of my personal channel, if you will, meaning I have eyes on that, every single message that comes through, and that is probably the best way to get involved directly with more of like the grassroots advocacy side of what I do.

Speaker 1:

I love that, and then I would highly recommend people follow you on Spotify at the Hanny.

Speaker 2:

HannahZennin project, oh, also my podcast.

Speaker 2:

Yep, you've got a podcast, hannah, come on, I forgot about my own podcast and it takes a lot of time out of my life and I love it and I've sent incredible people through it.

Speaker 2:

I actually took a bit of a sabbatical from it over the holidays and so getting back into it has, frankly, been an absolute blast. But my podcast name is the Hannah Dunning Project and I made sure to keep it really open-ended because it's not just about clothing. It's probably similar to yours in terms of sort of more of a non-toxic lifestyle with a hopeful ending to every episode, which is something I love about what you do is you know you're balancing that really heavy, overwhelming topic but also giving actionable ways to make a difference and move forward in a healthy way. So we really focus on that as well. We'll have to have you on. Obviously that's a no-brainer, but yeah, that's our podcast and those are probably the three best ways to get a hold of me. My book will hopefully be released in December, but with deadlines like that I guess you never really know when it's actually going to be published officially and out. So hopefully December, potentially early 2026.

Speaker 1:

All right, we'll have you back to talk about the launch of your book. Hannah, thanks for being here. Talk some for you. I appreciate you and thank you for all the work that you do to advocate for people who need it. So thank you, congratulations on finishing another episode of the Toxin Free-ish podcast.

Speaker 1:

You are making your life a whole lot less toxic and if you loved this episode and you learned a lot from Hannah, if you could leave a review or share with a friend, I would greatly appreciate it. Honestly, it is the only way that shows like this grow and we can get the word out about toxin-free-ish living. And if you're also wondering where to start your clothing journey or find the brands that have already been vetted by either Hannah or myself and the companies that we talked about on today's episode, you can head on over to toxinfreeishcom backslash clothing. That's toxinfreeishcom backslash clothing, and you're going to find the things that I started with swapping out first the bras, the underwear, the workout clothes and all the companies and the brands that are honestly trying to do the right thing and creating clothes that are good for your health. That's all for now. I'll see you next week.