Erin

Hi everybody. What do baby boo. We just put our kid on a bus to school for the first time. It feels wild.

Josh

Feels

Erin

free. It does. I thought it was gonna be a lot sadder. More

Josh

sad. Yeah. I mean, you kind of were this week. Yeah. For various reasons. True. That That had to of'em.

Erin

I I got the tears out. Yeah. Two days ago. She was so amped. It was kind of hard to feel sad.

Josh

She was anxious last and then this week. Completely different. She was just having feelings. Big feelings about the anticipation. Totally.

Erin

Anyway, but this week she was amped. Yes. was like, I love you. So she gets on the bus and she didn't even turn

Josh

around. Not even

Erin

She was ready. Anywho, yeah. New, new found sense of freedom here. Yeah. For the first time in five

Josh

years. Art in the paint. I'm stoked for this podcast. Me

Erin

too. It's a good one. It was our very first in-person guest,

Josh

which is so much better. So anybody that wants to be on this podcast, yeah.

Erin

Sorry.

Josh

You have to come to Columbus. Tap in. Yeah. Yo, you need to be with us. It was fun. Uh, Bryoni. Mm-hmm. Y'all heard Bryoni on podcast before. But she came and stayed at our house. It was so, so we could not do an in person podcast. Totally. It was awesome. We talked a lot about kind of the spaces in between the things that we talked about on the previous podcast. Mm-hmm. but then we learned a lot about her things. I know. I mean, we were having deep conversations all week long. Yeah. And then she just dropped some info on us, like living in a bus for two years.

Erin

It's like, what a

Josh

Oh man.

Erin

Yeah. Bryoni is one of those friendships where it was just bizarre kind of immediately we felt very like safe to just be our complete full selves with one another, which is unique. I think it's only happened I think one other time in my life, but. now more than ever, I just feel so grateful for friendships that kinda like cut the shit, like cut the bullshit. Like we're still, I mean, I,

Josh

the y'all, I, I've only like been in person with her three times. I know. It's

Erin

insane. And you too, I feel like we've been friends for decades. But, I think that's I think we're all just open books with one another. Yeah. And we're not, there's no, no topic is off limits. Like we just talk about whatever is like interesting us or lighting us up, but then we also have fun, which is important. Like I think there's some relationships in that arena that end up being very like, I don't know. Hyper spiritualized. Sure. Or hyper

Josh

dunno. Serious. I had to edit 45 minutes outta the podcast.'cause you guys were so slap at, they couldn't even look at each other without and laughing we but like high school girls, again, it was so funny. Bryoni, we I learned. that she cries all the time for every reason. So if you don't remember the story about when I first met her. or remet her, her eyes were tearing'cause of or something. Yeah. Yeah. And nobody acknowledged it this time. Every time her eyes watered, we acknowledged it. Which was

Erin

a hoot. Yeah. Mostly.'cause she was

Josh

laughing so hard. Yeah. I haven't laughed that hard in years.

Erin

This is the years. I mean, it helped that we sat down to record at like 11:00 PM Yeah. Which usually we're in bed by nine. So. It was just funny. So yeah, if we, if we sound a little loopy, that's why also the, audio quality is not maybe our best. But yeah, tried

Josh

a new mixer, which is irrelevant to anybody listening, but yeah, it wasn't where I wanted it to be. Just give us, so I did my best. Yeah, just give grace in the slump. But anyways, Bryoni just continues to be more and more epic. Yeah. Yeah. She's a beautiful human inside out, like I say with everyone, but I don't know. It's, something's just hitting different with this friendship. Mm-hmm. And it's been a blast to just kind of go deeper and deeper with

Erin

it. Yeah. And if you miss the first episode Bryoni, just giving you the background, a little blurb about her, she, was the corporate world a long time. She worked as an accountant, with. I think lived, and just was not feeling like her soul was satisfied, um, with that. And so a couple years ago, she left the corporate world and started teaching. meditation, mindfulness, yoga, um, kind of like freelance full-time and from corporate to conscious. Yeah. So she's super interesting person, really beautiful soul, full of love and kindness and she definitely inspires us. big time and we hope she inspires you too.

Josh

Yeah. Well enjoy y'all. Enjoy. Bye.

Erin

I remember you saying after the last episode that we recorded, oh, I wish I had talked more about, was it the emptiness concept in relation to

Bryoni

karma? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I wish I had talked more about karma because when you just talk about emptiness by itself, it sounds like victim blaming. It sounds like. I only see this cup like the way I see it, and I have the capacity to change it, and it's my mind's fault that I see it this way. Yeah, like when you're talking about chronic illness, it's like it's my fault that I'm experiencing this chronic illness, but Karma says you no, it's not your fault. It's just that you're forced to experience it in that way

Erin

It's the sum of your thoughts and beliefs. Is that what it is?

Bryoni

And actions. Yeah. According to And

Josh

the, the accumulation of your current life All

Bryoni

lives. All lives. Lives, yeah. And yeah, I know. And like, I think all of this stuff is connected. I don't think that it operates in a silo. Like Yeah. We talk about generational trauma and stuff like that too. Yeah. And how that could lead to chronic illness. Contribute, and I feel like all of that is a part of the equation. It's not just your own like mind that's creating this stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

Erin

I think we definitely contribute to our, like we've talked about, like your balls to the wall mentality and like mm-hmm. Workhorse sort of personality. Probably maybe made you vulnerable in some ways, but yeah, like it's not all, at least not a conscious

Josh

choice. Oh, I'm convinced of that. Yeah, for sure. Especially experiencing the things that I've experienced even in the past year. There's so much that feels like it's way past the life that I'm living. Yeah,

Bryoni

yeah. And it's funny when you go in the opposite direction, you say, okay, let me like try and believe in this. Yeah, and you test it. It works for people. They're like, for sure people talk about manifestation all the time or creating their own reality by thinking a certain way. Yeah. Or just living in a certain energetic. Pattern. Yeah. That matches what they're seeking in their life and that creates their reality. So I don't know, you can like experiment with this stuff and that's actually how I feel like it's meant to be done. Yeah. Is playing with, let me try and not think the thought that I always think or say the thing I always say or act that way and clean up your, yeah. Your karmic patterns. Mm-hmm. And the seeds you're planting and then see what happens. It's not like, what do you

Erin

have to lose? True. You might gain some peace of mind. Yeah. This is

Josh

fascinating. So where you're at now in life, there had to be things before that happened in order for you to get here. Like Erin and I talk about a lot of like where we were spiritually. In the evangelical world, all the things that happened to us in that has aided in where we've landed spiritually. Are there things along the way, whether it be in early childhood or even recent, that kind of aided in creating the path? Style, Buddhism and mindfulness and where you're

Bryoni

at now. Yeah. I feel like I was saying this to your dad earlier tonight'cause I don't know what he asked, but I explained to him that I just was born this way, was like born as the most independent child. Yeah. Ever. My parents have stories of them trying to like, Teach me to tie my shoes and I'm like, oh, like I wanna do it and I wanna be the one to make the mistake so that I learn from it and understand why I should do it this way and not that way. Yeah. And they were just like, we're trying to get in the fucking car tire damn shoe. Yeah. If you talk about nature versus nurture, that was my like nature. I was just, Born that way. Yeah, and I don't know if that came from past life or what, but then I was raised with a mom who was like very loud, very expressive to throw parties to also yell a lot. I just was always not fearful of loud noises, but just like, I don't know what's happening. Yeah. She also was like up and down with. Her personality and I was constantly trying to interpret, is this a good yell or a bad yell? Is that shout like,'cause she loves this episode of American Idol or because Simon Cowell said something funny? Or is it like she's. Shouting at my stepdad and they're in a fight or whatever. So that just would make me not wanna be in that environment. Yeah. And I would escape, it ended up in like middle school, I started to get more into a i m and being online and I had a computer in my room and like just ended up naturally spending more time in my room on my computer. So I would come home from middle school or high school, I'd eat something real fast. Go upstairs.'cause I didn't, I thought watching reality TV show was like a waste of time and I'd rather be spending time with my friends online. Sure. I'm sure a lot of millennials have very similar stories.

Josh

Yeah. Yeah, and it would be American

Bryoni

idols. Yeah, so I just feel like I always had this like space alone that I really valued. And even growing up when I couldn't have that space because going to college, I was in a dorm room, I shared with someone and just for years lived in houses with other people or apartments. It was always my dream to create my own space and like have that comfort of being alone with myself. I ended up like living in a van for two years. Oh yeah. I built it out with my dad and it was like while I was a That's awesome. In accounting. Yeah. Wow. And that was super cool. That was my own little space in when I lived in San Francisco, just like in the middle of the city. Cool.

Erin

And

Josh

like you lived in your van

Erin

in San Francisco. Yeah, it

Bryoni

was the only way that I could afford my own, yeah, sure. Place. And I, at the time, van Living Van Life is still super popular, but it was like just gaining traction I feel like. So I was like, this is a cool thing to do. And I, what was that experience like? Like the most freeing thing I'd ever felt up until that point. Also very lonely. Yeah. I was like, oh, I. I can't entertain. I love to have friends over. It was a Ford E three 50 without, um, an extended roof. So I couldn't stand inside of the Chand. You have for

Erin

two years?

Bryoni

Yeah. Wow. So I basically just, I would spend a lot of time in cafes. Sure. And then like I'd eat dinner or whatever, and then I'd sleep in the van and I'd get up, I had a 24 hour membership. I'd go to the gym. Sometimes I wouldn't wake up early enough to work out, so I'd just shower there and then drive a little closer to work. Park, take the bus into work. Whoa. Yeah. And after work, take the bus and I would repark the van because in San Francisco it's actually illegal to sleep in your vehicle. Yeah. And one night, it was like one of the first nights I was in it, I was finding a place to park and with a van that big, it's difficult to find a park space in San Francisco. So I drove it not really knowing the area out to one of the nicest neighborhoods in Ssf, and I could tell, but I wasn't really thinking that anyone would say anything. And I went to them like got tucked in and in the middle of my sleep. Just these blaring lights behind my van. And I was like, someone was banging on the van and I was like, oh, shoot. So I opened the door, my like, throw pillows, fell out of the van. Like I'm sure it wasn't who they were expecting. And then the police officer was like, are you guys sleeping in here? And I was like, Yeah, us guy.

Erin

It was just like me by myself.

Bryoni

Yeah. But I had like a rug and my throw pillows, so it's all like decorated with like lights and stuff on the inside. And he was like, okay, it's illegal to sleep in your car in Ssf. And I was like, I didn't know that. This is what I mean. I like jump into ideas without doing a lot of research and I sink or I swim. Yeah. And I just found this out along the way. Yeah. And he was like, but if you're looking for a place to sleep, you can. Go over to the sunset.'cause there's a lot of people who sleep on the beach there, like in their RVs. And so that's where my spot was. Like I would live in the sunset, I would sleep in the sunset and then drive it to a spot as close as I could get it to work without having to pay for parking. Yeah. And take the bus from there, which wasn't that far from the sunset. It was like the other side of Golden Gate Park. Okay. Yeah. Whoa. So for two years, that's wild. Yeah. And then I just was like, I need to move back into a space where I can stand and have people over. Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. How did that shape you? I feel like I've maybe always been this way, but perhaps it's made me even more just ready to do it. If you were like, Hey, do this thing, try this thing within Raisin, yeah. I would be like, okay. I am never tried that before or just also now. I'm constantly observant of other people in Vans and RVs. Even though I don't have one, I'm like, oh, that would be a good place to like park. Oh, sure. I'm constantly observing like how other people live in this way and what different opportunities there are for like people living that way. Yeah.

Josh

What did the alone time look like? You were with

Bryoni

yourself a lot then. Yeah, so I definitely spent a lot of time in cafes, met a lot of people. There were some really cool people in the sunset that it's like a very community oriented area of the city. And there was like one cafe that I would go to most nice. And hang out there. So I got really close. My friend worked at the cafe. Okay. And I got really close to people who would just go there all the time. They had music performers and stuff like that. So it's like a close community. I would like definitely sit in my van and meditate a lot, but that's, I feel like when I was first. Getting into it. So I didn't really know what I was doing. And then I guess I would watch Netflix too. Netflix and Chill. Yeah. But yeah, it was very interesting. That's

Erin

fascinating. That's wild. Yeah. Also, living in a van is something, isn't that on my bucket list? Maybe? It might be on my bucket

Bryoni

list. I have like, I wouldn't do it again. Living in a city with a job like I had. Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Erin

Contradictory feeling maybe. Yeah.

Josh

Would you do it in a city? No, I would

Bryoni

just, you'd go adventure? Yeah, I did sometimes, like on the weekends. Sure. Sometimes I had like clients out in Davis and stuff that I would purposefully be asked to be put on so that I could make drives algorithm. Work out there during the weekend, on the weekends, go like up the coast or whatever. When was this? It was like the last two years of me working at Deloitte and graduated in 2015, probably like 2017 to 2018. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. I know you just dropped a bomb out.

Erin

Wild. So glad that you told us that story. Me too. I'm shocked. Yeah, dude,

Josh

I think this shaped you way more than you're

Erin

giving credit. Yeah. Probably a long time. So,

Bryoni

yeah. Yeah. I also felt like I learned a lot about what I needed to keep and what I didn't need to keep around like in my life. So I actually have a question for you guys. Okay. Deal. Finish the prom. Okay. If you really knew me,

Erin

you'd know This is complicated because on so many levels, I feel like I don't even know me. And maybe that's like the most vulnerable way to put it. If you really knew me, you would know. I don't know me, I don't know. Like I just think there are so many layers within here that I've not even pulled back yet. Yeah, that's probably my answer. That's a good answer. Well, thank I feel very

Bryoni

much the same way,

Erin

really. Yeah. Maybe that's just the human experience, but. I don't know. I like, I even intentionally like went to therapy for a year because I had this feeling like, who am I and what is my true identity? She was literally like, okay, this is gonna sound dumb, but she's like, journal, like what are your favorite things? I like Thai food and my favorite color is, Lavender, like all whatever. And I don't, none of it feels like it even remotely touches who am I, if that makes sense. So I don't know, sometimes it like aggravates me that I don't have this like real anchored identity. I think honestly, sometimes I get bored of this story that I'm always like going back to Christianity. It just was my entire world for so long and I feel like that anchored identity, which was just like a. Kind of, I don't know, premeditated like note card response for who am I? Like I am a child of God, I am a Christ follower, blah, blah, blah. But that was what I really latched onto and anchored my identity in. And a lot of that, I still believe, but I just feel like there's. So much more to it. And sometimes I'm like, am I ever gonna know it? I don't know. Yeah. Who I am. Who am I? Yeah, that's my answer. Do you need the question again?'cause I just went on and on. No, I know

Bryoni

it. Okay. It is amazing though that you are who you are as I know you like hearing that.'cause I don't know you as like Christian Erin. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just. So wild to me. I feel like you've lived multiple lives within your lifetime.

Erin

It does feel like that.

Josh

Yeah. Christianity does always feel like a

Erin

different life. It just feels like the best way I can describe it truly is it just feels like my native tongue. But now I've got like other languages that I can use to describe my experience and to like, Think about. So there's still things that feel warm and cozy about it, like it fits still and it's just a language that feels like my native tongue. But it also, you know, you hear people, I don't actually speak any other languages unfortunately, but like you hear people say, there's no word for that in this language. There are just some things that there are no words for in Christianity, if that makes sense. At least in the set of words I was given within Christianity. So it feels like, Just more expansive now. There's just more, more language to put to these like concepts that are just, I don't know. There's not, I don't think there is one religion or one set of beliefs that can really fully describe it all. Hindsight, it feels a little bit limited, but it still feels like warm and cozy and like how I know how to

Bryoni

talk. What would Christian Erin's experience of you now be? How would you interpret. If you saw you or met you and saw the way that you acted and heard the things you said, yeah. Part of me, oops, sorry. Part

Erin

of Christian me would like, if I'm being honest, would, I wouldn't say envious, but maybe, wow, that seems free. And then part of me would say, yikes, they're lost. They're going straight to hell. Wow, that's dangerous. What this girl is thinking and doing and looking into, which is so fascinating'cause now the side of it, there's nothing but.

Bryoni

Love. That's what I'm saying. That's my only experience of you. So it's just craziness to think that you had that level of judgment Yeah. Before in your life, in your mind, that was taught to you. Yeah. I guess

Erin

judgment is the right word. It really more so felt like coming from a place of fear. Oh. And then it was filtered through a lens of judgment, if that makes sense.'cause it Yikes. Don't look under that rock because who knows what. Bitchy things are happening under there that'll get

Bryoni

you sent straight to hell. So

Erin

I see. It was more so like, don't walk outside the bounds of what we know here because the rest is all dangerous. Yeah. But now that I'm like walking wherever the fuck I want, I am realizing that there's just love everywhere. It's free and it's not dangerous. I wouldn't have believed that though. Probably that, I don't know what had to happen to me to open that up. But do you

Bryoni

think, has that ever been validated, like the part about looking under the rock and finding dangerous things? Because I feel like stuff still happens and like yeah, you could go exploring something and find it to be not a great. Situation. Oh, totally.

Erin

Yeah. I think I am learning more how to honor like my intuition or if you're like playing with exploring an energy that's not good for you. That's not from love. Yeah. I think that's something that we're all capable of knowing that I just, you have to learn to trust your intuition, I think, more so than trust your spiritual leader.

Bryoni

That is the difference, I think. Yeah. So where did you learn to build your intuition? Because it seems that's really

Erin

strong. Oh, that's so interesting that you say that.'cause I don't feel that necessarily, but honestly, I think just like stripping the framework away, like I had to burn it to the ground. Mm-hmm. Past me, Christian Erin would say, It would be dangerous to rebuild that framework yourself, because that's all narcissistic or something. It's like, who am I to say what is good and what is bad and things like that. You're flawed. Yeah. It feels like that's dangerous to trust yourself essentially. Right? Like to trust yourself to write your own moral code or whatever. And that's why we rely on things like holy text. Or a spiritual leader, a pastor, a whatever. Jesus. I think there's truth to that. Like I think you have to be, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

Bryoni

I'm wondering if that's hard. That's why it's hard to like for you to contextualize who you are.'cause you believe that.'cause I think for me, I'm like more comfortable with building my own. Compass.

Erin

Yeah. Yeah. Now that feels

Josh

completely differents to me. Appreciate. So what Erin talked about at don't resonate with at all. Oh, interesting. To me, it felt like I called bullshit on it really early. Really? And if you would ask Christian Josh about who I am now deep down, I knew this is exactly where I

Bryoni

would be. Really? Yeah. What age did that happen though?

Josh

Were you, I mean, I literally was like, How did you fit two animals of every single species, and that's what exists right now. Yeah. Like I remember in Sunday school, seven years old being like, this doesn't

Bryoni

end up, what were the answers? I'm so

Josh

curious. They wouldn't, it would be pushed down. I remember being like, how I remember asking a teacher in Sunday school, how is this possible? Yeah. Just out of curiosity, do you

Erin

know what the answer was, Lee? Not on your own understanding. Those are the things we were told. In

Josh

various ways. Yeah. People's own ways of saying it. But then as I got older, sure, I definitely would lean hard into it, but it was more for a level of acceptance than it was for anything else. Yeah. Did I believe some of it? It felt good'cause I would be, I would get a ton of affirmation, a ton. My personality was, Vibrant and outgoing, and I could get you on board with things. So everyone was like, you are just doing the work of the Lord. You're just an incredible disciple. Deep down inside I was like, this is ropes. None of this even makes sense. So I felt spiritual always, but I was always curious about what else there was, whether it was Buddhism or Hinduism or whatever. I never thought that I'd be atheist, but I always was like, There's all of these different religions and you think ours is the best. It doesn't make any sense. Why are there's wrong? Yeah. And nobody would've an answer. Oh, like they have an idol Buddha. I'd be like, what is Jesus? Yeah. The exact same thing. I was just so confused. Like even now, I wouldn't identify with a religion. All I would say I'm very spiritual, more spiritual than I've ever been. That to me now makes so much sense. So yeah, I had a completely different experience.'cause I felt like I kept calling bullshit on things all day long. I think our personality is similar to you though, is like when Erin craved somebody to tell her what to do. Always. That's why she was so good in school. So when authoritative people would say, do this, Erin would be like, huh, thank you. I'll do it to perfection. I'll ace it.

Erin

I'll get all the jewels on my crown. That was a thing, by the way, like

Josh

youth group, I would say that. Yeah. No, we

Erin

literally had him that was a crown and we would get Jules on it if we like memorized scripture. Wow. Yeah. That was like the least weird

Josh

thing that happened. But what happens? Like just who you are that ingrained? Yeah. It's like at a cellular level, that's part of why you're in the situation you're in right now is because you can't break out of anything that's already been ingrained. It's difficult. It's a struggle to do on your own. Erin always talks about like if there was just like a textbook for this, I'd ace it and Christianity was primed for Erin's personality.

Erin

Yeah, there's

Bryoni

a lot

Erin

of days where I look back longingly on that season of life because it was so easy and comfortable and black and white, like black and white's the best way I can put it. Everything just had its place If you just didn't think outside the bounds, like things were awesome. Everyone in my community believed similarly to me, like. We had everything in common because of that. I don't know, it just like we all had an understanding of each other, but like

Josh

if you flowed in the way everyone was supposed to. Exactly. You were under the umbrella of being accepted, but as soon as you stepped out of that, you were immediately pushed out and not accepted, and it was turned into we need a witness to you and bring you back to the Lord or else. You're destined for. Hell. So Erin, the rule follower wouldn't lean and I was just like, fuck this. Yeah. And then I would quote unquote reap consequences. I mean, there were interventions that happened with me Really there. Yeah. And it wasn't even like, I wasn't an alcoholic. I was like DJing late or whatever. Yeah. Partying or whatever. It was all based on curiosity.'cause everyone was not allowing me to do it. I always had two different experiences.

Erin

I do though, like when you talk about how, like you went and lived in a van and you're

Bryoni

like, I'll figure it out later. I'll sink or

Erin

swim, whatever, and you have that same sort of mentality, it's, I'll just figure

Bryoni

it out. I

Erin

feel incapable of doing that. On so many levels

Bryoni

and Yeah. The number of people that were like, you're so brave. Yeah. I would be like, what do you mean I'm brave being a man? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not fighting for our country. I'm not like saving lives. Yeah. I chose to live in a van. I just was like, what is this about? Yeah. Being brave to do this, but I think it's that. It's like you're brave to not really have a plan and to do it anyway. Yeah. Just jump. Yeah.

Josh

For me, there's like a little bit of a thrill in that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like I kind of get off on, so like jumping in and having no fucking idea what's gonna happen is part of the fun. And figuring out as I go now, not the hard way, but still figuring out it as I go allows me to mold it in a way that's gonna suit me best. Because if somebody else tells me what to do, they're thinking of it from their perspective, which is irrelevant to mine, specifically what it's dealing with. Transformative pieces of my life.

Bryoni

Yeah, definitely. So earlier you said the words black or white and I just froze and was looking at you.'cause I felt like it was like a sign of like me being reminded of something and I'm not really even quite sure what the reminder is, but I had this astrology reading done earlier this year and this guy started it off with, so do you know what the number one holiday movie was? Like the year before you were born and it, it just continued through the year you were born. And so I was born in 1991, so he's talking about 1990 home alone? Yes. Oh, so Culkin for the ne after that came out, became the boy that all boys like wanted to be. I don't know if that's true. That's what he told me. Yeah. No.

Erin

Think I'm that boy. I did not wanna be left help alone. Absolutely not.

Bryoni

And. 1991, December 31st. When I was born, the number one song in the US was Black or White by Michael Jackson. And it features McCulley Kin in the Music video. What? Yes, it, so he gave me homework. I didn't know that either, but he's like, oh, watch it. And I was like, oh my God. For the next like few weeks, I just, that's all I could play in my car. I was like rocking out on the freeway. Sing blasting black or white and singing little to it. But he said McCulley Culkin. He doesn't actually rap. It's like the producer of the song or something who actually did the rapping, but he mouthed the words, so it looks like he's rapping. If you've never seen the music video, you wouldn't know, but the guy who did my astrology just kept saying this over and over again. He said, I'm not gonna explain what it means, but you have to figure it out. And the piece that he read was Protection for gangs, clubs, and nations causing grief in human relations. It's a turf war on a global scale. I'd rather hear both sides of the tail. See, it's not about races, just places faces, where your blood comes from is where your space is. I've seen the bright get duller. I'm not going to spend my life being a color. And when you said black or white, I was just like, Oh my

Erin

God, it's all

Bryoni

coming back. Yeah. Not that I even understand what he was really trying to say, he's say, but I think it is, and I've tried to interpret it since then. I'm like, accounting is very black or white. There's like answers for everything and that stuff.'cause I like to be told what to do also'cause it's like very clear or I like that things fit in boxes and I love organization, but I think that I find more meaning in my life from like experimenting and really. Getting a sense for like why I believe things are true and not just being told. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah. It's

Erin

fascinating. It is. Sounds

Josh

are really weird. I

Bryoni

know. Very cryptic. And you said it. I know you were like black or white and I just was like, I was like staring at

Erin

you. Somebody said this to me once. I promise I'm not nail it. I can't wait to watch that back. I know. It makes me think of though what we were talking about at dinner, this concept. Okay, so like what is true? How can I know what is true? Like first, is that even a question we should be asking? I don't, who knows? But the fact that like we can't even believe the thoughts that we think, like we can't even trust the thoughts that we think because these thoughts are in so many ways. It's just like the byproduct of an organ of our brain doing its job to protect us, to keep us alive, to keep us part of the tribe. Then I think, was it Huberman who described that experiment where I dots, yeah. I won't go into detail, but essentially they realized that, I think it was rats or mice when they like stimulated a certain point of the rat or mouse's brain, they would see the dots moving on a screen. They would see dots moving in a different direction than they actually were in reality. And so it's just this whole concept of we even like really know our

Josh

reality. How the study went was they would stimulate the brain and the dots would go down, and they did this for like a year. After a year. They stimulated the same point in the brain, but the dots were going up and the mice still identified the dots going down. Oh, wow. Essentially saying that reality is a perception of what we're like, our experience as a perception

Erin

of reality. Yeah. But all that to say, I think we all want truth to be black and white. Like I think we want it to be either true or not true, but like, I don't know if that's, Right question. I don't know. How do we know it's true? But then we were talking about at dinner. Gosh, I have so

Josh

many thoughts on that. Really. Yeah. I think the more conscious you are, the less you want

Erin

that Yeah. My wife

Josh

doesn't, feels true. Doesn't Moly concern me anymore? I mean,

Bryoni

that's like any conversation about politics. I just, I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. It's just get really sleepy really fast. That sounds awful, because politics really do affect our reality. Yes, sure. But, when someone is, they care so much about politics and it starts to impact their emotions, and I am just like, we could talk about this on a totally different level over

Josh

politics in and of itself is a pretty darn negative issue. So

Bryoni

divisive. Yeah. Yeah. So about status and just like we were talking about before. Yeah. And Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Can we talk about it on this level where we're actually compassionate beings and we're talking about our universe as a whole, and now to continue and evolve. Yeah.

Erin

This idea of separation as an illusion, I think the more that sinks into human consciousness, the more everything will heal Well.

Bryoni

Oh

Erin

wow.

Josh

Will you guys work on, I just

Erin

turned the op star. Cut you off. Yeah. Screwed. No, this idea of separation, like none of us are separate. Nothing happens in the silo. Like we're all little like fractals of the same thing, whatever that is, we don't really know. But this idea that we're separate is an illusion. And once we can acknowledge that that separation is an illusion, then I feel like, because then it's not us versus them or like, Me versus you or this team versus that team, or hold all these resources for this group of people and

Bryoni

reserve this for that. People like, no, like we're

Erin

all literally parts of one another from an energetic perspective, like we're all

Bryoni

intermingling. We're not black or white. Exactly. And that's why I think my nature and how I was born with being so independent Yeah. Is so dangerous. Yeah. Because we're interdependent. That's the nature of all things we're exactly what you're saying. It's the HeartMath stuff too that you're talking Yeah. With that person not knowing what's going on, but. It's still happening.

Josh

Yeah. I talked to her, I told her about the study of where that one person in the room mm-hmm. Didn't know how to do it and everyone else did, but that one person began to do it without knowing it.

Erin

HeartMath. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a tracking of your H R V and there's certain like. Breathing or consciousness techniques that you can do to get it into this. Yeah. Certain pattern, but it's like contagious, so fucking cool.

Josh

Yeah. Yeah. I think chronic illness for me broke that. The independency? Yeah. Where'cause I, well,

Erin

you had to rely on, I

Josh

had to rely everybody around me. Anybody that was literally

Erin

moved to get

Josh

help. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to ask for, it wasn't something I was doing before I got sick. I almost prided myself on not asking for else can I do it my damn self. Mm-hmm. I had like a chip on my shoulder almost about it once I got sick. It was impossible for me to carry all of that. And so, yeah, I think it was a, a start to me being more aware and consciously activated to see that there was so much more interconnectedness than us just being like, I do it myself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bryoni

I think you just explained it to me like in that moment. I was like, oh, maybe. I think that's it. I think that's what the astrologer

Erin

guy

Bryoni

was saying. Yeah, we hadn't covered it. I mean, I understood interdependence before, like now, but I think based on the conversation and what I noticed and pulled out of what you said earlier and then what you just said, that's how I'm gonna interpret it. Yeah, that's. I think that was it. Yeah. What other reason would I need to be here in Ohio twice this year and meet, and it's wild. And then, I mean, I think it's just, yeah, I met you guys. Perfect timing. Yeah. And I'm meant to be having these conversations. Yep. I believe that.

Josh

Yeah. Past our bedtime in our basement.

Bryoni

Here we go. Yeah. No matter what,

Erin

after 30 minutes of slap, happy laughing. Regarding what you were saying though, I feel like we're two ends of the spectrum in a lot of ways where like you two have that like, don't give a fuck. I can do it myself. Attitude, and what we were talking about at dinner with my dad was this. Evolutionary impulse to be a part of the tribe and not be on your own, because you can get more things done. You can take down a mammoth if you have your whole tribe and you're a part of that, as opposed to if you're on your own, you're a lot less likely to survive. But just like for me, remembering, that's like an evolutionary survival mechanism in my brain. So when I am feeling like. So-and-so doesn't like me, or so-and-so thinks that I am too out there. That fear-based reaction is just my brain being like, let's keep us safe, be like everybody else, get in line. But I can operate from an even, I don't wanna say higher necessarily, but like from that seat of consciousness, like I can operate from the seat of consciousness knowing, okay, thank you so much,

Bryoni

brain. You're trying to keep me alive. It doesn't actually matter

Erin

what Jane thinks about me.

Bryoni

Yeah. You know, like alive anyway.

Erin

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But knowing that this interdependence. Upon one another and like this, understanding that we're all connected whether we feel it or not all the time, and there's a balance there. There's a middle way there somewhere, but

Josh

that's my answer is whatever the question was, 25 minutes.

Erin

If you really knew me, you

Josh

would know. Yes. How connected we actually are. That's it to me. And I think that all the time with people. I wish that you knew how connected you and I are. Oh yeah. I wish you knew and that's it. Even this is such a silly example, but we were in the woods today. Brian was on a walk with us, and Brian and I were touching the same

Bryoni

tree. I knew you were gonna bring this up. I knew you were gonna say this for

Erin

sure. You were connected to the same root system,

Josh

but I was. Feeling it. Yeah. Yeah. Like there, there was an energetic connection to the tree, but I was feeling an energetic connection to you. Yeah. Yeah. And what I do is when I touch the tree, I allow my consciousness to tell me whatever it needs to tell me. But it felt like I was telling you. Oh, does that make sense? Mm-hmm. What was coming up wasn't for me. Oh, interesting.

Erin

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Josh

The word was believe, like it was just clear as day, just boom. Yeah, that was it. And you were like, what did I asked you what

Bryoni

you heard you were like, it says Join Ruti. It says Quit all your other jaw

Erin

when I, but I

Josh

kind of feel like the tree's telling me you need to live with us. Okay,

Bryoni

so here's the second prompt. If you really, really knew me, you

Josh

exactly that, I'm

Erin

happy. You're like, I'm not changing my answer.

Josh

No, I mean, I, I generally believe that though, like I, the true thing, I know it sounds so silly. No, but over the course of the last year, I talk about this all the time of just what I'm feeling and the energies that are flowing through me that are all around me, that if I can just be present for a second, I can tap into those. Mm-hmm. And I think everyone can, I don't think I'm unique in any way, shape, or form, but, It was one of the first times in my life where it felt like an energy exchange and yeah, I, if we all knew that we could do that.

Erin

Wow. I

Bryoni

just feel like also that you have been through a different experience than That's the beauty of it. I know. So the, what I'm saying is you've gotten to this point of looking at things with no bullshit and being like, you also have this, just this different lease on life. Other people who may have been studying this stuff Sure. For a long time. Sure. A k e who haven't experienced, like I've been in a car crash, but I haven't experienced like that level life threatening events in my life. Yeah. You just have this way of not letting the destructive or intrusive thoughts. Yeah. Be so loud, I think, or at all sit at all speaking. Yeah. Because you can just very clearly be like, yep, this is the way it is. And meanwhile, me and Erin are like, are you sure? Yeah. We're like, oh

Erin

yeah, you're tell us that 42

Bryoni

more times. Even a reminder. Yeah. Just say it over and over and over again. Like we brainwashed into knowing that this, the truth is the truth. We know it's truth. We were talking about this at dinner too. That's the thing though. I know it's let's not rocket science, but, but okay, so

Josh

going back the idea of true and false, what is that? I know. What is true that's so unfair to the magnitude of what we're talking.

Erin

What you believe is true for you is I think what happens whether people like that

Bryoni

or not. Like

Erin

that's what you believe is true for you because you make it so, yeah.

Josh

But the idea of truth doesn't exist. Hey, get out of the equation. Yeah,

Erin

just feel like a mute.

Josh

It's a human way of identifying something true and false is just.

Erin

Black and white. Yeah. Yeah. That's all that is. It's like we worship science and we worship. Yeah.

Josh

Take'em out completely and just let it be. And what is it? It? That was it. That's it. That's how you shut everything out. It's not like bad thought. Bad thought. Oh, that one's a good one. Yeah. That's our truth. That's not how it is. It just like, You can tap into your intuition and then the source all around you and what comes is, and that's it. Yeah.

Bryoni

I do think that's true and true. I think people need steps. Yeah. So like labeling thoughts. Oh yeah. I get that is so helpful for some people who are like just getting started. Totally. I get that. And understanding your own truth.

Josh

If you felt it though, you'd know. Yeah. Like

Erin

label being plugged in, being the source, labeling it.

Josh

Turns into a

Bryoni

crutch. Yeah. But that's like any, I think like any mindfulness exercise, like with focusing on your breath, that's like when you count your breaths, the next level is, okay, stop counting. Sure. That's just a distraction. Sure. It's the same thing I think. Yes. Stop labeling the thoughts.'cause that's just a distraction. Exactly. Then sit with them exactly as they are. But you, our brains, I think need a distraction to latch on first, because Where'd you said,

Josh

Aly? The thought. I would just say acknowledge that it's a thought. That's what I would say. Cut the bullshit, whether it's good or bad is completely irrelevant, whether it's true or false. Yeah. Like you trust yourself enough. Whatever it is is meant to be and just identify it as a thought because you're judging yourself immediately when you identify being

Bryoni

true or false under bad. Yeah. This applies so much to the change thing tomorrow actually.'cause it's like prepping. Yeah. With change, it's like I am always so, It's so funny to observe people like in denial about change happening.'cause to me, I'm like, change is very obviously just a constant, like how do we not get that ready? Yeah. But change happens and we're like, oh, like this. Now it's not happening. And that doesn't help anyone. Like that does Definitely doesn't help you. Yeah. And it's a very similar idea. It's like change is just happening. Yeah, it is. And that's it. Like you don't have to force yourself to suffer through trying to understand whether it's like happening or not, whether it's good or bad. Yeah. Yeah. You kind troll over that. Yeah. So thanks.

Josh

That's all I have to say. With the true impulse. Still, I have thoughts and I identify them as that, but if I start to label it anything more than that, it turns into a battle. Yeah. And that's really unfair. That's all.

Bryoni

I don't believe in fairness.

Erin

Wow. That's for the next podcast. Next podcast Next. There's so many concepts. It gets to a point, and again, this is why sometimes I look back like longingly at my past set of beliefs, but it gets to a point where I'm like, what have we even talking about? Yeah. Like what? How did we get here? What are all these Yeah. Concepts that are just like so murky.

Josh

Yeah. So gray, last time we had you on, you mentioned after literally like a couple days after that you wish you would've said X. We talked a little bit about it with karma and emptiness. Is there anything that we haven't talked about today that you feel needs to be said for people listening?'cause you're a wealth of knowledge in things that Erin and I aren't in on a daily basis, so we.

Bryoni

It sounds cheesy, but there's nothing in life that you can't overcome. It's all a matter of. Expanding your consciousness and I feel like I'm gonna sound like a hippie dippy. You

Erin

live in San Francisco? Yeah.

Bryoni

Witchy band, band girl, or whatever. But especially with relationships and stuff, I feel like there's just so much with our relationships. Obviously there are some that are like abusive and just maybe even energy that we don't want in our lives. And I'm referencing all relationships, but I just feel like everything is figureoutable. I love that and not like sounds lame, but it's all you can, if you choose to step into that like plane of thought, that's like beyond all the suffering that we do. Yeah. Then we cause for ourselves then. It's become so clear what the answer is and it's al, it always to me comes back to love. Mm-hmm. It's like what would be the most compassionate and loving thing? And generally if it's like for someone else, if you're like, oh, the answer to love that person more and better is to be this way. It's also the same exact answer for yourself. It feels so much better to be in that space yourself. Yeah. That's great.

Erin

Okay. Thank you. I love that. It's true. Really good. It has. Can you tell that it's 11:30 PM We love you. We do love. You're so thankful to have you in real life.

Bryoni

This

Erin

has been such in our

Bryoni

basement.

Josh

We've really only been together like three times. I know, but it feels a while, friend.

Erin

I know. Yeah. Bizarre.

Bryoni

It's wild. I know. Maybe our souls were like tebo. And it's funny like you are, like you mentioned earlier, that you're like, oh yeah, you guys are so alike in that way. And I feel like, yes. Yeah, exactly. I

Erin

feel you guys just agreed that obviously that

Bryoni

to you then Josh, but. I just feel there's like things that you say where I'm like, yes, that's me. And then same thing with you and there's, it's like things about my personality that I feel like, yeah. Are you just my mom and my,

Erin

am I, yeah, I'm not, am I Zoe? I sounded like. And you're

Josh

technically older than me. I am so glad that lady didn't wanna talk to you at wisdom. Yeah, me too. None of this would be happening right now. You would've been off to her. Yeah. I feel like here's an angel. It's fine. It worked out all. She was one of our

Erin

spirit guides. Yes.

Bryoni

There you go. Yeah, it worked. Love you guys. Bye bye. Bye.