The one all about Rent to Rent!

Rent to Rent (R2R) is the easiest, quickest and cheapest way into property - it is where most successful property businesses start. This week Sophie, Athena & Julia sit down and share their wisdom & lessons from the wonderful world of R2R. A chat full of knowledge bombs, tips on how to get started and succeed. 

Mark your calendars! Join us on Saturday, December 7, 2024, for the Girls in Property Christmas Gala Ball. Want early access to tickets and updates on future events? Just send a DM with "COMMUNITY" and we’ll add you to our mailing list.

Additionally, if you're interested in taking your property journey to the next level, click here to book a FREE 30-minute consultation with Athena. We'll discuss how the Property Lifestyle Accelerator Programme can help accelerate your success.

ABOUT THE HOST

With more than 5 years of experience as a landlord, Athena Dobson departed her secure corporate job two years ago to chase her passion as a full-time property investor.
Now, she successfully manages multiple businesses handling HMOs, SAs, & BTLs, all while sharing her expertise to guide &teach others on their own journey to success.

Athena's mission is to be able share as many tips as possible from her own experience, to empower others to navigate the complex realms of business & property with confidence! 🌟

Girls in Property is recorded at Absolute Music Studios in Poole.

CONNECT & CONTACT

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Transcript

You listening to the girls in property podcast where we explore the world of property meet amazing guests to hear the stories and support you in your property Charlie hi everybody your hair with Sophie Julia hi Tina how are we doing everybody is interesting isn't it? It's going well. I think with new opportunities. Come a lot of another level of problem-solving and challenges to overcome but you know it's part of the journey onwards we are riding the roller coaster of business absolute so rooms Bournemouth is completely up and running at the moment fabulous really really going well. We had a couple of viewings. I'm just doing some proposals together for the same landlords, so hopefully we should be getting some some properties soon and getting on way.
 How about you Julia I'm so we're expanding into London father looking at more opportunities in London I think you know it's celebrating the journey really on Monday I went to London and it was quite eye-opening because I was never using public transport in London on a Monday and it made me feel like an hour later because I'm pushing rushing and looking at the time. I had my paper that people and they would just stare at me think like what's wrong with her and it was crazy because everyone was stressing about you know getting to their job and being scared that they going to get in trouble and I like I've got all the time. I'm telling everyone was running up there, so I just I'm just chilling and it was to see and it made me feel really grateful of the life created in the aspects off. I get to do what I want to do when I want to do it then obviously with that comes a loving you load of challenges that people.
 But I think I took me back because two years ago. I was still in a job. I was still living payslip to payslip in a job that hated and now I'm happy to do that at least I enjoy you know you've made it life and you can just stand on the escalator to actually walk up with that comes great responsibility my Roger I think I just did a Spider-Man just looking at the moment. Sorry. I'm in heard. I like Spider-Man thank you celebrating. We had a great day in Bournemouth yesterday a beautiful house.
 I want it hopefully stay we will win it. I think I did a great job. Just trying to the landlord. There was no sales pitch. You just like tell me all about you. Let's build a relationship. So yeah, hopefully with cracking on with those deals in Bournemouth so today we wanted to talk to you about rent to rent because it's how we all got started. There's loads of moving parts are there and we're not going to go into loads and loads of death because we don't want to be advising you want you to find your own way. There's a lot of compliance legal stuff, but it's such a great way to get into property isn't it? I think this is going to be really beneficial to those who are considering rent around and who just want a quick site to rent to rent of where to get started and quick little bullet point of you know. This is what you need to look out for you and if you want to Delve deeper, then just email us girls in property pod.
 And we can maybe do some mini my podcasts on going into those questions a bit deeper so how do we start a rent-to-rent? Do you need loads of money no not really I think that's why it's the quickest way in order to get started like if you're looking to solve. Do your 95 job you can do a 95 job alongside rent-to-rent also like does different types of way to structure a rent-to-rent deal. So you could do like a 50/50 a joint venture of someone with someone put in the money. You do all the work you so low money off family friend and the thing is with went to run you're still renting. So you're not buying a house. You don't need thousands thousands of pounds. You could probably start with 3000 and that's it. You know. I'm £3000 you could borrow off your colleague of your family friend. So I think it opens a lot of drawers for a lot of people watch it first one. What just the
 I just want to get you just like snowballing from there cos you've know you've been through the first one you bringing through probably the one of the worst ones and then you know the systems you would sort see what you went wrong, but went well analyse it and see how you can be better on your next one. I think for listens out there who who are very new to property if I think is what you should read discuss also is what actually is rent-to-rent. Just quickly we can rent to rent is where you would offer the landlord guaranteed rent so for example 1500-2000 for a 5-bed house and then you would rent it from them then and you were out on a room-by-room basis for SE5 £600 - your bills council tax and then you basically make your profit margins from that so that's just an overall weak instrument is also the reason why it's more beneficial to landlords is actually because you take on the cosmetic damages as well you tell them that you're going to run about that property you and you're actually going to do it.
 So don't give any empty promises so you cannot find a shit to a standard that you want to finish it which should be a lot better than its current condition you can repaint it potentially if it needs new carpets. Do the new carpets so you basically uplift the value in itself, which a normal tenant wouldn't do cos you're putting your own money into it and that's why you need that £3,000 or so to start to not only pay the rent also you can negotiate and some deals to actually go because I'm putting so much money in I'm not going to pay your rent for the first month then I'll pay you on the next one because I'm adding value to your property. That's not mine. It's beneficial to us both and then you need £3,000 to uplift the value and actually run free and you got a month to sort of get it occupied and the other aspect of it as you can you rent to serviced accommodation for rent HMO which is houses in Multiple occupation so it depends what you want to go down but you could use rent around as a tool in sort of any category.
 If you don't have to if you don't want to it's a little bit scary it just literally gets you started and want to get starting at your first one is Julia yeah, and in the model that we use we want the minimum profit margin of £500 a month property so after we paid direct to landlord. We've gathered the rent from the tenants paid all the bills. We should have 500 left so for me. I needed to pick up three rent to rent properties to pay my basic expenses and then you just stuck up some people have said isn't that subletting isn't that illegal? Why would a landlord choose to do that? What would you say? No, it's not subletting best contract you haven't placed so like what I'm what I always say is whenever an agent comes to migos subletting.
 I say well. No, it's not because it is a company that we would be signing up corporate let agreement not a tenancy agreement and therefore because the lad simple time of it all the reason is happy not subletting is not because of the contracts but it's because the landlord is aware that I'm not the one living in it and that it's going to be me renting how to another person as long as the landlord is aware and agrees that you're not going to live in his property and both parties are fully aware that not subletting subletting is when you say you're going to live in the sea, but then you rent it out to someone else without the landlord knowing that's illegal but is not illegal agents the other day in Bournemouth and to get some beers etc, and you do feel a sense that as soon as you actually go into the agency. You're almost on a back foot a little bit because
 How many people have done this before and not in a very professional way and there's lots of stories about that the agents will give to you as well and therefore you walking in your very credible as a person but they don't see you in that way, so what you have to do if you have to be you have to know what you actually have to offer be confident in that know that what you after is of good service and play confidence man who pushed back at us for example and we just said to him. Well. This is what we offer. This is what we've been doing credibility as a massive massive thing but I actually wants you overcome those objections and you find out what their pain points are which is really key you can then I almost they will this is how we will help you with those pain points and from there by comes on board and what I have personally say to the agency when we went and you know if any estate agents are listening take this with with a bit of pinch of salt etc, but
 Agencies and estate agents can have a bad stigma. You know if you go to one bad estate agent who has actor very well suddenly all estate agents are tarnished with the same rush to little bit like that Sunday People operating arrangements actually have one bad experience in selling exactly the same and it just isn't true. I think the low-cost barrier to entry is a blessing and a curse that a lot of people can give it a go without having to put too much catching but when you start your rent to rent either HMO or serviced accommodation business. He needs have a bit of knowledge behind you have experienced because what these people have done is they've maybe listen to a podcast like reading a book and I'm going to give it a go but without knowing anything about business cashflow finance market management compliance you need to put that little bit of a foundation in before you go for it, so I say to anyone wanting to start it get on the NRL a really good.
 If you want a credible ones come and speak to us because there's only out there and make sure you've got all those foundations in place there so that you are the credible option. You're not the best. Just giving it cos if you set it up really well, it's been more scalable and you've got proper processes in place. If you know anyone who's running already a successful business in the industry that you want to go in. Why don't you meet up for a coffee? Why don't you go for a launch? Why don't you go look I'm looking to you know get started? Where do I start? What would your nuggets be is ok, if I see you for a day. How could I help you maybe and see if you can solve learn from them because they will not only have the knowledge. They have the experience to teach you a lot from their experience. So and I would also get on the HMO register. If you're going to do rent to HMO have a look at the areas. See what words do a field.
 What's on the streets look at the properties themselves and also go to networking events because I guarantee you at the Nurburgring events that you go to at least one person is doing the strategy or has done the strategy. Go and talk to them. Go and talk to them get some experience behind you just have a chat. Just just have a chat also tipp10 14 everyone out there. Please don't go job after your first rent-to-rent like that is not the way I'd advise you to do things. I think this is so important to know like a lot of people hear a lot of people say I'm fine free. I've got a you know portfolio of hmis up for the offer save and might have grey but how much of them to your own like because it all it takes is your landlord to say all I'm going or no longer want to work for you and because of their property don't own it your cash flows for that. See you financially freedom whatever you call goes well as well, so also like when it comes.
 What you said so if you like calculating your profits hmos and service accommodations are very different. I've got both and the reason why I went in size correlation is for the radio cash flow, but I wouldn't have gone into town about hmos first because hmos give me the stability and security if my essays go wrong because you can never guarantee occupancy with the Square station unless you have contracts with working for companies and all that so one thing that I would always say is what do you need cos every person needs different amount of income to keep them Afloat and it's what do you want? So need a very different things and then like see what it is. You're going to do and how many properties do you need to actually be able to quit your job? Don't just quit your job after the first one because you're going to get you into a financial struggle.
 Financial is that emotional whether I want to be and work back from there, so if you work back how many rent-to-rent essays how many rent 2 Rent HMO do I need how much cash flow do I need per month and a real good system put it down Pen To Paper what are your goals for the year? What you guys for the month and then have something to follow as you go otherwise you just lack structure and if you like structure you like termination and that is really key to the success and consistency stay consistent. You are going to get a lot of rejection if you do rent to rent. It will happen to you. Trust me and keep going to stay consistent because he literally never know when you're next call is about to come learn to love rejection what I've realised the quicker. I've learnt to love it and I call you a joke to me. I can't wait. I'm closer to my yes. Ok the more knows you get the quicker. You are too. Yes, because you want to sort filter out all the nose.
 You can because then you can sort of go onto the yes the deal the money that what you so for me now. I might be ok. I know that I'm going to get loads of rejection. I know that I need to sort of go through that as quick as I can so then I can get to the real deal and I think that's so important to learn to love it and it's not some landlords. Just do not like it do not understand it. That's ok another landlord. Will like it and they would understand it and maintain. You know what you have to offer you know what your worth and keep that always with you a real life example most of the landlord's. We target kind of reaching retirement they've got a student houses which has brought them a nice cash flow income and now they're falling apart a bit this constant maintenance. It's looking worse and worse and they're getting less rent a room so.
 They're not getting market value for them and they can't be bothered with it anymore, so we will then come along and say I'll give you market rent or hire. I'll take it completely off your hands. You haven't got any headaches you hire rent and I'm going to look after a really well for you. That's the kind of landlord, you wanna talk. So how is it that cover letters are able to provide a higher on well if the house has gone and it's falling apart. We would then take it renovate it. Look after it really well, so that we can then charge. Just likely to ottomans and I think that's important because you need to look at rent to rent deals like I see a lot of people sometimes. I cannot new builds and they obviously went quite high rents and then they might not always achieve the cash also always do your numbers conservatively that what is the worst I can get this room. What's the worst? I can get for this conversation because if You're Winning and profiting on that.
 What is a bonus and you're happy? You know you can't really feel you'll always hopefully the kids in perceived decided to go and do rent-to-rent. I think all three of us have set up limited company is there are different structures and you do need to be compliant and register with data protection and things like that. Please do a lot of research into that. We've said probably hang onto your job until you've gone enough cash flow for your properties. So in terms of time management is rent to rent you know if you're going to be really struggling or transition going to be like I know you do it alongside their job. I know people who are a bit crazy like me and just jump in and a bit crazy Luffy no, I don't have properties. I'm going to go for it and I'm going to make it work. I think there's two ways because if you're putting yourself in a situation where you have no choice but to succeed you're always going to succeed.
 But also I would not recommend her and that I would say maybe if your your job is bearable you know bring you and stay in it and still you have enough to replace it and then you can do alongside your job through time management. So say if your job is from 9 till 5 right and you have lots to hours or so to sort of each. You know catch up with your other half family and then you can do property stuff in the evening. Obviously viewings and staff you can sometimes we can do you have weekends off or you must have at least one day. I think it's about prioritisation if you know how to keep propriety straight and you truly want to do rent to rent you will find time because you want to find time you're going to be creative are so creative only want to be so I was just looking at your diary actually having a diary. Let's talk there and then saying where can we put this in we want to change your life, where can we fit this extra?
 I think we're friends around is a lot of hard work for the first day freeform ups of consistency and then once you go through that you've been able to die in The Rewards of it and things easier so if you're in the process of that she start in your rent to rent journey. Not quite enjoying it. Don't worry it does get better, but I also think is about adapting to situations and then just keeping so I was in full-time job till September 16th 2022 so I was actually doing all of this rent-to-rent and I was actually building my portfolio as well and creative strategy techniques, which will talk about in a different podcast I was doing all of that whilst working in a retail based travel agency role, which those travel agents out. They will completely understand what that must have looked like for me so for example before I went to work. I was doing feelings. I'm getting up early. I was doing all the work. I'm coming home exhausted, and I was carrying on because once you have something in.
 If you want it enough, you will make it happen those who don't want it will create an excuse in my opinion, so just make sure that you stay focused and for yourself and when you are ready in your own time when it's right for you not for anybody else, then you can take the lead but it's definitely doable to do it whilst doing a full-time job however course you do a lot more time when you actually do leave so do what's best for you in any kind of business the aim is to systemizing it and get process in place so that you're not doing all that it's been really important for me and my business. Did you know there are admin tasks? There are viewings last there are maintenance tasks there a refurb you know marketing bookkeeping and you can get an accountant you put people we got a lettings manager. You know we're trying to get a full-time maintenance person now and it's about delegating as much you can so that you can do other things whether it's you. Lol x
 Business Development so you can pick up even more property Dead on because it's almost like also if you're still in your job you actually maybe have that spare cash to be able to pay the paper to delegate it and you have no other choice but to you that so I'm in Southampton I've expanding my bus into London and I have no other choice but to delegate London and it's more systemize than myself because it has to do you put in when you put in a situation where you have no other choice and it's really want to do it you're going to find a way agents are brilliant. Don't don't avoid the agents go into the agents as soon as possible. We've got a couple of this week through agents. I didn't want you. Just do your first one which can be a little bit daunting so just stare at you as you walk in as soon as you ever come to the next one. It's brilliant and like I said I've got some some agents this week. So so do you use them better ability so I am I'm quite sure I actually when it comes to agents so one.
 Things I did to break the eyes is over Christmas I checked myself a Father Christmas hat on and I brought loads of Doughnuts and staff I walked into estate agency. I thought right is now an hour and I was like I've got two nuts and I've got there. So you haven't heard of me yet, but you will you be me more and I was like I hope you're looking forward to a Christmas play, this is what we do this my company and this is how we can work together and because we came in and we break the ice cream Union just stupid pretending to be Father Christmas giving presents and doughnuts and also everytime I come in. We've got a joke going on now Christmas Father Christmas have any more like what's going on at agents basically they've got the landlord interest at heart don't want to give their property to someone who has no idea. What they do.
 Going being yourself being totally credible is saying I'm going to do great things so you can get properties from agents. How else would you sort your rent to rent everyone what I do. Tell everyone what I do because you never know who they might know in aspects of ok like I've got a friend who's looking to rent out the property and if I tell them I'm looking for a property anywhere between you two too bad. It might be that also you know it's a matter of word-of-mouth referrals and visibility on social media, but the biggest it's just literally so simple it's to everyone what you do and what you look for so if right now. We don't have any products because you just starting up. Tell everyone what you looking to do. I'm looking to start my business to do. I'm looking for properties anywhere between a CO2 bed if you know anyone let me know maybe we could pay your referral fee and that the letters.
 Direct to landlord as well so for example. What's been brilliant is if you actually get on the sort of the HMO register this you can send out however many are actually on there to the landlord's but also going on your platform zoopla Rightmove on the market targeting those who actually advertising for sale five to six bedroom houses at the moment and actually going directly to them because they clearly are trying to rent their properties at the moment and you can actually really good value to them. You'll do fliers as well funny story. Yeah, I did my face on it. You know I don't know how much I agree with but you know what they all know what I do know that if they need me I'm there so
 It was in the period of Valentine's Day and we didn't like it and then it was my face inside but we was professional decide what we do and how we help landlords and whole business, so it was no way romantic shape of waveform. The only way I could have looked romantic of the Black stamp actually had to go and pick my husband. It was a marketing technique. That's why we've done. It was red because of Valentine's Day wax stamp because I said I found a way to make everyone open the letter 100% because they had to collect it personally running on Royal Mail
 Ok, that wasn't a great. I didn't never mind. I'm not perfect let's go this time. We have to take the same thing but without the wax out without lights down and we did it in London I'm so and to be there look it works great. No angry phone calls. No life rats and all of that so brilliant if it's not get life Dire Straits that would be fabulous alright, so we've sent our letters. We've spoken to the ancients. We told everyone know and now off to offers property. So what other complete nose deal breakers and what are your ideal things when looking for SIA electric please remember that this is a business. You're looking to create. Obviously you can put a lot of effort into your business, but I don't want you get inside track and having a lot of emotions towards your business because at the end of day a business is need to make your money so rather than going to view a property.
 You are such a beautiful property. I'm loving it no no no gas far away from you as you can because you don't want to fall in love with a property you want to see does it make money. Will it make money? What is it in you know how much money do I need to put an and the best way, I say to do that is going with you every house as if you already have the keys and almost like our god. This is mine. What do I need to do with it? Oh my god. This is so much money are putting on my god. This is so much work. I need to do not only does it help you with negotiations but also you're putting yourself in the real life shoes of this is what I'm to do with this property of us to take it on and it makes you think rather than going to go with my dear. I got my birthday and everyone does that like you know for me. It was an eye opener after my first deal because my first it was like I got a property and then I walked in after I got you on my god. What have I done? There is so much work to be done there is so much money. Do we spend what I did? I take this on and it was because I got excited with the first deal so
 View my property as if you already have the keys and I think when you actually go to the viewings as well. I think what's really key is to really have a conversation if you can with the landlord of their they're really understand why they might you again. What their pain points what's been there experience of renting out their houses their homes. Have a conversation definitely if you can also take a laser measure with you to make sure you're measuring the hmos make sure that they are within your council remit of whatever your council stipulates look at the fire regulations ask about the licencing hmos ask as many questions as you can and also what I like to ask. What are there in front of them if they have any reservations about about yourself or your company or anything because if they do they will tell you there and then and then face-to-face you can overcome that and then hopefully you as well. Yeah definitely I think my mobile. There's so much compliance that you need to go armed with all that knowledge. What does your council require in terms of amenities? What are the fire?
 Let's know all of that know about room sizes and then inspect the property itself as well. You know the interior of the exterior we could do a whole podcast on how to view house serviced accommodation what I get asked quite a lot is how do I know how much they probably can make a night I simply just go on Evan beacon.com all those platforms that I would advertised on or the biggest one to me was a DNA and it basically what it does. It's great the data from all the sort of local holiday lets and it tells you on average. What the occupancy what it sort of brains per night and I think this is one of the things that you can see where the numbers are don't take the numbers as possible. Please do your own due diligence but also if the Aspect this is so over how we know roughly. What goes in the area so serviced accommodation hmos also very different cos Research Foundation you don't really need to look at room sizes and it doesn't need a licence.
 If you need to have knowledge and Compliance and the whole legal side of things research cremation as well, but it's different please bear that in mind also taxes are very different as well about the data from a DNA for us. It's spareroom.com so we do it on market research on there and then yesterday when we were looking at if ideal stacked up spareroom. Give us a data in your area loads and loads and loads of data, so that's really good news as well. We found that they had a certain price band. Where is outside of the Union outside of article for it was a little bit less exactly so make sure that you really understand that just because there's a city not all of the areas and all the streets are actually going to have the same really important to understand the property and then we figure out the deal some of us have a spreadsheet some of us have pen and paper but your main question is.
 So if you need to have a chat with us about it be very happy to Adolescent deals or find your Indian Analyser but this needs to be done properly because this is the next five years and just bear in mind all the costs that you'll need so if you need if you're going to paint the property yourself ok, you don't need pay for painters and decorators, but go have a look at paints and how much that will cost you like I'm literally do your numbers try and do it too as close to the penny as you can so that and also have a contingency like have a 10% contingency so that able to cover that in case there is errors and longer journey. That will be a few hours, but we learn of them we perfect it later, but it's just important to do your numbers to the penny if you can 100% and you're probably we can have a period as well. You know serviced accommodation money comes in and out and fluctuates throughout the month hmos. You might get a longer contract with a tenner, then you might need a few days in between.
 So you've never based on 100 100% not give us so you put it to your landlord or agent and they say yes and then go for the contracts which is again something you guys would need to look into because we all have slightly different ones you know get them looked over by a solicitor or legal professional and then it's onboarding and managing tenants the whole game. I think it comes to contact you have a power team of a lawyer that you trust so just go out there do your due diligence and see where you get along with and stuff, but then the onboarding of tennis is a whole situation, but a lot of people have said I'm going to get today. I'm going to have to go and fix things everyday. There's going to be emergencies, how much time do you think is involved in actually being called out of being at the end of the phone don't get me wrong. You do get cold.
 Unless you delegate that so I've got a business partner in London who deals with all the call helps there because I'm not driving 2 hours to catch London to sort out a leaking tap then with regards to Southampton to be honest. I pick up the call ICE WhatsApp and then I call my handyman and I'm like I do you want to help me. Yeah. We we don't get called out too often we have different levels of maintenance request and if it's a proper emergency you know you need to call the emergency number we had the other day and it was like well. I'm not coming round you need to call the gas emergency number and you know if you can if you do end up delegated, so yes, you're going to take the calls but for me. It's not as bad as people. I think it's time to understand know that the usage of cells commodation and hmos and very different someone who's a tenant live there all the time as someone who's coming for a short stay they want an amazing.
 Someone who lives in their home. They Gonna probably shower like every day, but also if you're in a sales conversation, you're doing attraction stuff, then my shower twice a day and there's two of them so it's very different and that is that there is more maintenance potentially with Sad conversation so handyman is like your number one go through the door so cleaners after every stage inspect the property give me a little update on this may be broke. You know just to let you know and I can organise it gives me time before someone calls me yeah, so there. We are we briefly covered. What would your tips and absolute don't be in regards to rent to rent in High Wycombe is just for those starting out and concentrate on one is in one technique Sophie choose if you want to get into rent to Sa or choose if you want to get into rent to HMO and become really good at it if you trying to register to then you try and understand both aspects of.
 We will get stuck and you will model your way through it and it won't be as great as it could have been if you just focused on one and yeah, I would say lots of it compliance finance skills knowledge and possibly can and then just make sure your sex with the most conservative figures even though it might be the scariest thing you're ever going to do like that sometimes getting yourself out the comfort zone which fast track your journey is the People's game the quicker you get out there to the people that more visible. You are the more opportunities come to you and maybe to work so hard for them because they're coming to you. So the as large as you can about what you're doing what you're going to do and also get the knowledge either it.
 Someone else's experience by joint venturing with them all by shadowing them or just from a course. What do you mean by joint venture if people don't know joint venture like that's a whole thing you are so many things you can do a joint venture basically major partnering up or collaborating with someone in order to sort of make the deal work say you've got money, but you don't have the experience you can collect it was Someone Who Experience you'll find the deal but they'll do the work and you'll get to oversee the whole project and learn from it and ask questions from it and be hands-on. If you want to there is also another aspect of it of saying you don't have the money for the knowledge, but someone else is willing to sort of help you out for the process, but they want profits in it. You'll go out once again do all the work and maybe say I will split the cost 50/50 so it gives more of an opportunity for you, but also your split prophets 50/50 it depends because a partnership need to work.
 Days and with everyone we will want different things so depending on person-situation experience and your situation and your experience and what is that you want you can collaborate with people and make deals if you're willing to go and sort deals in a new area that someone with an existing business doesn't have time to do those deals could be really profitable so if you could sort them feed them back. You can get a prophet. Just a day of it outsourcing. It is lots of different things so approach people and just ask just communicate business. Yeah, so sad is our opinion and experience and we're not really giving advice. So please look into stuff and do your own research financial legal due diligence before you do any of this but we're happy to chat about our own experiences and absolutely property disasters has anyone had a property disaster this week. I wouldn't.
 Disasters that happened this week, but I think it's really important for listeners to know as well, so we obviously sent out our letters 2000 register etc on about 9:30 at night. I got really into the email from somebody who received one of the letters who let's just say wasn't very nice in the email. I won't go into it too much detail. I think that was really key from it was my very first reaction let you know very first reaction at 9:30 at night when I got this letter was oh good they are starting to get our letters and that was my very first thought that came through even though they were calling me names Under the Sun and I think what's really really important is that kind of mine said wasn't didn't just come to me. That's something that I have developed over myself with the right people getting myself about knowledge and experience and trust me it will happen people will start to say those things to you people who think they can do it better than you what was
 When I spoke to her about it, is they taking the time to Google me and really got a lot of information about me and what was fabulous about it was I thought brilliant. They are so they also threatened or want to look into me but they took the time to Google it at 9:30 at night on a Tuesday so yeah. Keep going it will happen. Don't worry about it and so he don't let it stop you that's wonderful. I love the positive vibes only thank you very much. We have a question from Instagram from Sarah and she's asking about working from no savings. How do you make you doing deal sourcing and how do you find someone to sell the deal to social media is a massive platform. I think a lot of people spend a lot of time on it. It's so some people cinescape and you've got a big target audience there worldwide if you want so I think by having a social media presence that trade you in a professional.
 I am uncredible that will help you distribute your deals as long as they're good all senior make sure that the deals are going because no one is going to buy a bad deal. You need to have knowledge. You need her be able to know how I do stags and how the Investor a person who would be buying the still would look at it and if you can put yourself in their shoes and the reason why you can't do this till it's because you might not have the money or you might not want to go down that route, so that's why you're selling on then. It means that you won't struggle to sell it. Cos it sells itself and it could be any deal good mythical, be a rent-to-rent it could be a flip it could be a refurb could be any house for sale that could make a good investment so if you can find a little niece or learn a little bit about it strategy and then go out because investors they have the money but they don't have the time generally the deals for them and then they'll go out and invest in that house and I'll pay you a sourcing fee.
 Go for it and how do you find people to sell the deal to again? It's about your network. Isn't it definitely network I think if you spend a little bit of your time to go out there network and people need to go to the right audience as well like you know someone who's in a cake business who has no passion in property and not looking to buy has anytime soon and you're trying to advertise this bill is wrong with her, but if someone is a property letting your circle who are friends who are in property even if they don't just say are you interested if you're not interested. Maybe someone else you may know is and let me know. I was worried as you know anyone who might be interested in this and if they are interested. They will say yes. I do know is asking more is an open question there is money out there as well as money everywhere to start with a bit of deal sourcing because maybe you don't have the
 But there are funds out there how much finance do you think you've raised in the last 6-months to hear well? I don't know if I want to celebrate it. Just yet before it's done. Ok, so I'm not sure you just say six figures 7 figures. I'm just gonna keep it on the low as 6 figures as usual tell people just going to say really really good at raising finance a social media presence help me so much experience and knowledge. I would not be able to raise the money I do if I don't have the experience or knowledge in what I do. Try and aim to be as knowledgeable one of the best people you can in your industry and surround yourself with you. He would just as good as you because you're learning of each others mistakes and you all support each other and also you have different connections different networks.
 You're stronger than ever amazing, so we've I hope you've enjoyed this little Delve into rent-to-rent basics. There are so many moving parts. We could literally took all day about this way, so if you please let us know if you want us to do similar ones for other strategies. Let us know and if you have any questions, please send it to girls in property project gmail.com and find some Instagram girls in property pod Bournemouth and and you can find other see me in Bournemouth if you want to chat for a coffee. Let me know you can find me on Instagram and Juliet and then it's the surname really long collective2 wsk a underscore happy to connect. Thank you so much for this day. We'll see you next time bye before you go here's a message.
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