Balancing Motherhood & Business Without Losing Yourself with Samantha Hearne

This week on the Girls in Property podcast, I’m joined by the incredible Samantha Hearn. 

Now, we could have spoken about nearly anything. We had so many conversation topics to choose from. 

Sam is a seven figure, multi million pound business owner. We could have talked strategy. Scaling. Sales. The big business moves.

But we didn’t.

Because when I think about the conversations I have with you all most frequently, it is not just about property or business growth.

It is about motherhood. It is about mum guilt.

It is about building something big while feeling pulled in 100 different directions.

It is about wondering why you are not where you thought you would be by now.

Some of you are mums trying to grow a business whilst holding everything together at home.

Some of you are not mums and are quietly carrying the weight of that, especially when life has not unfolded the way you expected.

And in this episode, Sam and I come at this from very different angles.

We talk about fertility.
We talk about identity.
We talk about guilt.
We talk about what it really looks like behind the scenes, even when things look shiny from the outside.

It is raw, honest and powerful. Just two women bearing their souls to help other women feel seen & heard. 

There is no one size fits all answer in this episode. You will take from it what you need. And I really hope it meets you exactly where you are right now.

This episode is for you x

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So some of you who've been like watching my stories knows that I have literally just flown in this morning at 6 a.m. from Dominican and quite frankly, I'm a little bit jet lagged, but do know what? I feel like when you're in these moments, you actually create your best work because you essentially just live off of adrenaline. So we're going to see how today's episode goes. But do know what? It was a great flight. was nine and half hours back. We flew last night. So I think I've been up now for at least 24 hours. And one of the questions I get asked most frequently by all of you, so let me just answer your question in one. They say to me, Athena, what movies did you watch on the plane? So I have to tell you this. I watched the latest Bridget Jones, right? The latest Bridget Jones. And I was, when I say to you, was wailing. like wailing on the plane to the point where I had to like put my like my hood up over my face. um I will not, em you know, give any spoilers or anything like that, but it's, think I was waiting because it was, it was a moment as a story of beauty, but also, you know, actually around the topic we're going to talk about today actually of motherhood and how Bridget has to identify between being a mother and actually being a woman at the end of the day and is a woman. For me, I just thought that was just such a beautiful story So mum was laughing at me the whole way through because I just kept crying but it was really great So that's why I watched anyone else who watched Bridget Jones. Let's talk about it. Let me know but today I Had to to do this podcast today There was no way that I was ever gonna be like no we're not doing it one because when you commit it's important to commit and two because This person is incredible that I'm about to introduce you to now Some of you will actually know Sam from being in like her world and welcome therefore to Girls and Property and the ladies who are in Girls and Property. I can't wait for you guys to actually get to know Sam because she is an incredible woman and it's funny because in a way I could have spoken to Sam about anything today on today's episode because I mean, Sam's going to do her own introduction here, but you'll see how incredible she is and what she's built for herself. You know, we could have done branding, could have done strategy, we could have done... how to build all these things. But a lot of you recently have been sending me your DMs and your DMs have really hit home to me. And we're to talk about this today because it's this notion of juggling motherhood and juggling motherhood and identity and work and this notion of feeling guilty, but they're not guilty. And I think why it was so poignant and why it's going to be such a beautiful episode to be released when it is, is because everyone's just finished half term as well. So you've literally all just finished half term. You've probably gone through all the struggles and the juggling and the kids and everything like that. So I thought that's the episode that I want to do today with Sam. So get yourself a cup of tea, get yourself a stiff drink if you need one, if you just finished a really tough day. But that's what we're going to be talking all about today and becoming an amazing mum, businesswoman, badass, whatever you want to call yourself. And I'm really excited to see where today's episode takes us. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce you today to Sam Hearn. Hey Sam! Hello, thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Sam, do know what's really interesting? I don't know if I told you this, I might have, but I obviously, when I first met you, was told, everyone kept saying to me, do you know Sam Hearn? Do you know Sam Hearn? Do you know Sam Hearn? No, no, no, no, no. And I felt like the universe was saying, I think you need to meet Sam Hearn. And I was like, okay. And then Jackie, who was doing my website, said to me, my God, Athena, there's literally a couple of tickets left to Sam's event in December. And I went, fab, brilliant. I'm coming, know, Christmas gift to myself, let's go. And you know, as soon as I met you, Sam, and as soon as I saw the room that you had created, the community that you created and caveated, and I watched you dance down the aisle as your introduction, I was like, I like this girl. I like her a lot. And for me, the more I got to know you, I believe that... If I could think of anyone who had the most similar personality to me that I know, I think it's you. think when I look at you, think, wow, the personalities are so similar in that in such a gorgeous way. So yes, I can't wait for everyone to get to know you a little bit more today. Yay. Okay, Sam, so over to you. So can you start by introducing yourself? Tell everyone a bit about you, like, you know. Obviously a lot of people know you, but what about the people who don't know you? And maybe talk about, you know, where you've been, where you're going. And the one that I love the most is tell everyone something that maybe they don't know about you, which I think is always fun. Okay, yeah, so nice to meet you all. My name's Sam. I'll give you a bit of a synopsis. So I went to university and did a four-year teaching degree. I got a first-class honours degree in education and then I went into teaching and I loved teaching. That was definitely my first vocation. I then spent just under a decade in school. And I was, I worked in secondary school. taught two subjects to GCSE and A level and I was the head of sick form by the time I left. yeah, I was in charge of pastoral care for teenagers, making sure they achieved their academic potential, but also they were happy individuals. And quite a lot of that then moved into my business and what I do now really. So I started my first business in 2016, which was in anxiety and mental health coaching. I... wrote a best-selling book in my head of year 12 office in my lunch breaks. That went really well. I had a podcast, I had a membership. I was running group programs. Things were just, you it was like the Midas Touch. I came into the industry when it was purely images on a grid. There was no lives, no stories, no reels, no TikTok, no threads. was just none of those things happened. So I came into the industry at a really nice time, I would say, and it just went really well. By 2018, I'd left teaching and I transitioned into Samantha Hearn. So I moved away from the anxiety mental health side and went into business mentorship and supporting other women with how to build their brands, build their businesses, use social media as a leveraged platform for business, full-time jobs, know, change their life. And in amongst that 2018 to 2025, because we're only at the start of 2026, so many things have changed. I've run over 45 masterminds. I've had group programs. I've got two accredited programs that I teach from. I've run so many events, thousands of women, one-to-one. I've done so many things and so many different iterations, but the crux of what I do that stayed the same, it's just evolved, is I support women with how to create more profitable, repeatable businesses that feel good doing it. In amongst that, I've also, I had my own fertility journey. was trying to get pregnant for six years. We couldn't get pregnant. We had our own struggles for no other reason. It was unexplained infertility, which happens to one in four couples. So for six years we were trying to have a baby and we couldn't. And then at the start of, in March, 2022, we went through IVF and it was successful. And I had my daughter at the end of 2022. So she's three now. So in amongst that, since I started my business, I got married in 2015, I started my business in 2016. The first, well, three quarters of having a business, I was struggling with not being able to get pregnant and the personal heartache and grief and just, that was a massive part of my life. So I had this massive success in my business and at the same time, I had these real personal struggles and triggers and everyone was getting pregnant. We've all been there, you all go through that age of. you're single, everyone's getting married. And there's so many different nuances, but that was mine. And then I did have a baby. So then I had the whole being pregnant, running a business, having a newborn running a business. Now I have a toddler running a business. So I've moved house. I moved house in April last year. I ran a London marathon last year. So in amongst the business, there's been so many different kind of like life changes. But that's a bit about me and something people might not know or my audience would know. if you... Some people don't. I've got a twin brother. I'm three minutes older. I've got a twin brother. And this isn't new really, but I'm obsessed with sunshine. It's my favorite thing. The sun fuels me in every way. I just need to look at the sun and I feel like a completely different human. They would be my two. Oh, and when I love something, I love it. So if there's a TV show and I love it, I just want to binge it. If there's a food that I love, I love it. So I very much am quite all or nothing with. things I enjoy and what I want to consume and binge. So that's a bit about me. mmm gorgeous gorgeous guys do you see how me and Sam are similar like literally I loved that and yeah love that okay so Sam, if you don't mind me asking actually, so going back to this fertility journey then, because obviously that is the topic of conversation, because the thing is, love it because there's two, it's almost like, this is what I want to talk to you about today. I don't even see it as two identities. I just see it as Samantha Hearn in one, because you say it so easily, right? Like, you know when you were just speaking initially about, have led these events, I have done this, I have done this. I almost felt like you were listing it like you were going to Tesco's to go and get your groceries. like it was nothing and I know that people listening to this are gonna go, wow, like that's amazing and then you're like yeah but I'm also a mum and I think what I really, someone said to me, Athena what do you want to do on today's podcast? I want to inspire people. I want to inspire people in two ways. two ways. I either want to inspire them if they're not yet mums, like me, or I want to inspire them if they are a mum to think, well, do you know what? I can do it too. I can have my own identity as well as being mum. And that's what I really want to do. So I actually am speaking to a lot of people at the moment, Sam, who are going through their own fertility journeys. and I think when you become, and you'll know this right, you know when you become the leader of a community, it's like you stand still and women in a beautiful way sort of come to you to confide in you, to talk to you. I mean you know as soon as they, as people get pregnant, which they have done, you know, I get the photos as soon as they get engaged, I get the photos. They're like, don't tell anyone. Don't. I'm like, that's so difficult for me. But I do. I don't tell anyone, guys. You know I don't. But, you know, they also say to me, um hey, Athena, sorry I didn't get back to you. um We actually had a miscarriage last night. Or hey, Athena, uh really sorry, can't make the call tonight. um We, you know, we've just had a, um you know. a negative IVF thing or we're going through IVF and the injections or something like that and like if you've never been through it it's very very difficult you can empathize but it's very difficult to actually understand emotionally as a woman what that must be like to go through so in your own world then when you were sort of like you know at the height of your game doing all these incredible things and you're like I tell you what Sam, here's the question. It sounds like from a business perspective, everything was going really well. You were like really growing. You were doing incredible things. Like on paper, you looked to be successful. If you divine what a successful person looks like, you're like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, I'm here. But yet how did it feel? in your personal world then not being able to get pregnant almost like um this is working but this isn't and on this six-year journey and how did you feel about all of that how did you carry out that I think it's really important to talk to that because I've got friends now that are going through their sort of own fertility journeys and they will message me saying, Sam, you're a hero. Like I can't even imagine. And until it is true, until you're in that situation, there's no way to describe to someone what that feels like. It's the most intense, relentless. There is nowhere to go. There's nowhere to hide. It's just, it's the hardest. It's the hardest thing to experience because there is nothing you can do. It's a form of torture and you're just sort of stuck in it. And for some women, it takes a really long time to come out the other side, whether that is accepting that they won't have children in a quote unquote, like stereotypical way, whether it's deciding that they're going to move their life in a different direction, whether it's, you know, there's so many things that women have to navigate. And if you aren't fortunate enough to decide to start a family and it happen, the way that we're all taught that it will, you are thrust into a world of the unknown and you are thrust into a world of stigma, of judgment, of complete and utter ambiguity. It's never the same for any two people. So there's not like a, you know, okay, I want to run a marathon in sub four hours, you're going to need to do X, Y, and Z. There is absolutely no real solution because IVF isn't guaranteed. You know, surrogacy, there's so many things like adoption, everything. There's so many things that create variables. So I think as well for women, we also have the expectation that we do things at a certain time because that's what society expects. And I definitely, when I got married, I was still teaching, my life was very like picket fence. I was a teacher, I had a good job, I got married, we owned the house, that was the next thing. And if I do look back, of course, and this is the one thing that I would say if I fast forward, if you are in a situation where your journey is... harder. If you are in a situation where your journey is harder, the one thing that one of my friends said to me, and I've got quite a few friends that have been before IVF actually, and so for me it's quite normal, I would say, whereas I have friends that they're the only one, apart from me, I'm their only source of outlet, whereas I did have a few and it wasn't abnormal, and she said to me, when you do have your baby, none of this will matter. And obviously when you're in it, I'm like, oh, can you swear? Go for it, Sam, go on. When people first started saying that, I'm like, you fuck off. Like, that's just the biggest load of bullshit. Like, you know, relax, go on holiday, get drunk, stop thinking about it. I've heard it all. And I was like, you can all go fuck yourself. Like, this is just a complete fuck off, basically. And then you go through the whole, how often are you having sex? Are you having sex every other day, every day, every three days? When do you start having sex in your cycle? Day four, day five, day six, day seven? It's just mental. Anyway, so when she said this to me and she said, look, you won't want to hear this right now, but when you do have your baby, all of this will become irrelevant. And at the time I was like, but I don't know. I don't have my, I don't know when this is going to happen. You're just in this like complete vortex. But if that is you and you are listening to this, that it, and there's one thing you take away from this, that would be it. Because it is true. Once you have the baby, it's totally irrelevant. And do you know what? I would do it all again for her. I would do that all again and it was the hardest time of my life when everyone else and you're just there like, oh my gosh, you just feel helpless. But I would say to answer your question, it was like... It was like walking around with a cloud over your head, but it being sunny outside. the world, everything is still as it should be and the sun is shining and that's great. And I love the sun. So I'm using this analogy. So I love the sun. I love sunshine. I love that. And I can be happy with that, but you've constantly got this cloud that just like lives there. It's not necessarily painful all the time. It's not uncomfortable. Sometimes it's smaller than others, but sometimes it just is like a thunderstorm and you can't really prepare for it. So I just distracted myself with work and it wasn't a uh avoidance strategy at all because I love what I do, but it was a coping mechanism. I'm good at what I do. I'm able to help people. I can change other people's realities. So I just sucked myself into that. And then if I had to finish work and then cry in my bed with Luke and film Heartache, I did that. But then I got up the next day and did it all again. No like, yeah. Christ. Like literally it's... yeah. It's mad because we... do know what's really interesting? I feel your emotion but from a different perspective. So first of all, I love the fact that somebody else on the podcast that wasn't me cried. Finally, I made it happen. Usually I cry every episode so I was like, oh but I have a feeling that we're both gonna join in on this together so apologies guys because I come in it from a different... perspective. But first of can I say before I do anything else, like, wow, like the reason I love this podcast so much is because people can see you as a certain way on stage with your infant like incredible energy sound like you are a magnet to me and so many other women like, you know, but this is why I love these episodes because I don't just want to sit here and be like, you're smashing it and do more, do more. It's like, no, what the, what the What did you actually go through? Like what did you go through? How did that feel for you? Because there are gonna be other women there that go, do you know what? Me too. Me too, you know? And I think that's where the beauty of connection comes. That's where like souls come from. So as you were speaking, as human beings, right Sam, as human beings, the only thing we can ever do in life is really try and understand where the other person is coming from, from our own situations. So... I've come at it from a different angle, which is like, when you explained about sunshine, I was like, when I was in my five and a half year relationship, I'm, I'm 34. So I'm at like a stage where I'm like, Oh, I was meant to get married. I was meant to have a baby. I was meant to do that whole thing. And I chose not to do it because I chose me, essentially. And it's bizarre because when you just explain that analogy, I could wholeheartedly understand it where I leant into the business as a complete coping mechanism. And you said something beautiful, Sam, that I'm going to hold on to, which is you said, I could change other people's realities. Mm. and that's exactly how I felt. So for me, I really didn't grieve at all the relationship because I was like, go and support others, lean on others, go and do others because that will then help you through but... What I'm now going through is, because I'm trying to give two perspectives here guys, if you're listening to this episode, I'm trying to give two, two perspectives. We have two different types of people. have people who are going through IVF and people who are seeking children or have children, beautiful, and we'll come onto the chaos of juggling kids in a second. But just for those who are in my position, where you're at a certain age where all your friends are married, all your friends are getting engaged, all your friends are giving birth and you're back home living with your mum, who I adore, but living back home your mum and you know on holiday for two weeks everyone asking you like where's your husband are you married where's your kids and I'm like I don't have any of that I don't have a boyfriend I don't have a husband love kids and you're like and I said to mum I was like I was sitting up I'm sitting with mum one day at breakfast and I was like I was like mum I was like is there something wrong with me like Am I meant to want kids? Am I meant to like be that person like genetically as women? Am I meant to feel a certain way? And mum said to me, no, you're meant to feel how you feel. And I said to her, I feel like I'm failing as a woman. So, you know, if on the other hand guys, you're out there who are in my position and aren't in that whole thing and you you just, wherever you're at, you know, it's also okay to choose that actually you also don't need to follow the stereotype and it may happen and it may not happen. And if it's meant to happen, it's a beautiful thing. I, I would love to be a mum, but I would only ever be a mum if it felt right, not because society told me to become a mum. And so I kind of just wanted to give two different perspectives because there are tears for both which is, you know, and and somebody asked me once, Sam, somebody said to me, Athena, what scares you most in life? What are you most scared of in life? And I said, I'm most scared that I might not never get that. You know, the whole picket fence, husband, kids, it just might not happen for me. And like, that's okay. but we help other people's realities, that's what we do. But I think the thing that's really important is, because I have friends in the same situation, know, that don't have kids, don't have partners, and they're some of my closest friends and I've met them since I've been at university and before. So like, you know, 20 years and they feel exactly the same as you. Like, will this ever happen for me? Like, will I meet someone? And you don't want to, the older you get, the less you want to settle. You know, you've built a life for yourself. And I think that the thing that I always... remind myself of, but even when I speak to some of my best friends who feel exactly the same as you, is everything has to be about choice. you don't know, you absolutely aren't meant to do anything. But if you ever, and this is what I said to her, if you want to have children, your choice right now is to explore relationships and explore how you can make that happen. or your choices to explore doing on your own or your choices to explore dating. So your choices have to align with the things that we want in life. And people could have said to me, just stop trying, just stop doing these things. Like don't do IVF, it's really gruelling. But my choice to want to have a family meant that there were certain things that would have to make me uncomfortable to get that outcome. it's totally, I think for women it's totally... dismissed that we also have a tendency to want to fix something. So I could say to you, of course you're going to have kids, of course you're going to get married. Like, don't be silly. Of course, of course, because we want to fix things. We also need to sit with the discomfort. I don't know if you're going to meet someone or have, or have a family. I don't know that you don't know that. No, and say to me, I definitely know you're going to have a baby. You don't, but what you can do is sit with someone and say, look, whatever choices you choose to make, if those choices make you happy and you're saying, you know what, by the time I'm 45, I'd love to have a husband and be pregnant or have a little baby. Cool. So then your choices for the next 10 years get to be about creating the best life possible for you and to set that up for the universe to come in. You know, like that's the thing we can't, of course, no one can sit here and say, yeah, that's going to happen. And this is great. It's about you. And if you are then happy with the choices that you make. Whatever someone says, and it is, it's a joke, the fact that people say to women that would never say to a man, oh, where's your husband? Or have you got kids or whatever, whatever? No one would ever say that to a man. It's just a complete joke. But when people do do that, you'll feel completely different about your response because it's not about how you're being perceived. It's how you're choosing to live. I don't have children yet, no, but I am doing this. I am doing this. You redirect the conversation. It doesn't make you more or less successful because you don't have or you do have either way, because some people have children and aren't happy. Some people don't have children and aren't happy. The thing that the accolade that we're looking for in society isn't always a thing that makes us happy and successful. It can be the thing that breaks us. So, I think it's tough. It's really tough when you're in a space that doesn't fit the norm. What that means for others is, know... To be a woman, To literally be a woman. But you know, you just said that so perfectly, which is you have a choice. So if this is the choice you'd like to make in this moment of your life, that's your choice. And you know, Sam, I always talk about seasons of life. You know, I love seasons of life. Like this is a particular season and then there'll be a new season. And you know when you just said to me then in the most beautiful, easiest way, you said, do you know, Athena, if you want to have kids at 45 and a husband, and I was like, yeah. 10 years! I'm fine! yeah, and instantly I was like, of course I'm fine. I think I just watched Bridget Jones and had a moment, that was all. But you know... We all have that and moments where you do feel like everything's fine and it's, you know, that's the other thing we dismiss how we feel because it gets awkward. And we're like, no, it's fine, it's fine. But sometimes it is sticky and you are left and women will be listening to this from all ends of the spectrum. Something in your life won't fit. Maybe you're getting divorced. Maybe you're being made redundant. know, there's so many things where you then don't fit the norm. People feel uncomfortable around you. You then think there's something wrong with you and there's not. It's just that we aren't taught. to feel comfortable with discomfort. Like it's totally okay that you're sad about the fact that there are certain things that you aren't sure how they'll play out. My role as someone listening, like it is for yours, is not to try and fix that or be like, let's make her laugh. Yes, it is a little bit of a frustrating situation and that's okay. Tomorrow you feel completely fine, know, like fuck it, I'm just gonna be like an independent woman for my whole life, cool. Hahaha You're like, oh, I want to be a kept woman. Cool. We all have the opportunity to change our minds and change how we feel. But what we should never be put in a situation is other people dictating how we should feel. That's a joke. Absolutely, absolutely, completely agree and thank you for that because I feel like when I was away on the trip, know, I received receiving DMs from people and by the way, all your DMs are beautiful. So please keep sending them like I'm just trying to explain about different caveats. That's all. So if you sent me these particular DMs, I love you all. I think they're fantastic DMs. But sometimes it's like the DM would be something like, it's amazing to see you out there. I wish I could do that, but I can't because I've got my kids. Hmm. I wouldn't be able to do that. And I'm like, yeah, but, it's really, it's, it's almost really complicated for me, Sam, because on one hand, and this is, this is a conversation I'd love to have with you on one hand. I'm like, I get it. Like I totally get it. And I get the fact that we have made different choices in life. We have gone through different roads. You found your, your person, you, you've got your, your, what you chose to have. I chose something different. That's all it was. I just chose something different. And I think the seesaw effect that I really struggle with, and I'd love to get your opinion. on this is my see-saw is I want to always have empathy for every single person. I always want to go, I understand that your life is completely different to mine. And you you hear people say all the time about, know, this notion of Stephen Bartlett doesn't wipe nappies and Stephen Bartlett hasn't got a clue the fact that you've got a toddler attached to, you know, whatever. Like, you know, and I understand that. I know that I'm not a mum and I've never pretended, you ladies know this, I've never pretended to understand how anyone feels trying to juggle being a and that's what Sam's here today to do. But at the same time I've got to be very careful. that I then don't lean into you as in you, the DM is so much that you almost then allow yourself to create excuses as to why you haven't achieved what you wanted to achieve because it's comfortable to just accept the fact that it was never gonna happen for you because you've got kids. And I'm there going, no, hold on a minute. I can empathize with you, but I'm not gonna allow you to make excuses. So Sam, have you ever had that before in your own world with yourself or with others that you coach? it's the see-saw effect which is quite difficult. How do you do that and help others? Yeah, I'd say the first thing I want to say is I always find this type of question difficult because I also know for six years when people used to say this to me, it felt like a bit of a dagger to the heart because I'm going to come at this now from the person that is a mum and does have a child and my perspective is different, but it's with complete transparency and context to... the other side of that because I started my business not having a child. So I've got the luxury of having a business that had what six years without six, seven years without being a mom and three and a half with being a mom. But now I do sit on that side of the fence. And sometimes I find that hard because I was such a kind of an advocate for the ones that, you know, were struggling or didn't fit the norm. I now know I fit the norm. So that's that that personally is when I find this question harder. But professionally, And if I kind of put that to one side for a second and answer this question, it is incomparable how different it is to run a business as a mum versus not being a mum. There is absolutely no way I could put them even in the same fucking stratosphere. is nothing like it. And I know even when I was trying to get pregnant, or even when I was pregnant, my illusion of what would be is so far removed from the reality that now exists. So to give a tiny bit of context, so my dad died unexpectedly when I was 14 and my mum moved to Jamaica when I was 21. And I don't have a relationship with her really. So my twin brother moved to Scotland when we were 21 because my mum moved. So it's just me really. It's just me. In terms of like location, like, you know, I speak to my brother all the time, but in terms of who's accessible to me, it's just me. I have amazing friends, my friends and my family, but it's just me. I then have a husband whose brother lives in Singapore. His mum is sort of two and a half hours away and his dad's around the corner. So our support network as new parents is very, very small, very small. Couple that with the fact that I then run a business, don't get maternity, don't get sick pay, don't get holiday pay, get nothing. And I'm still the brand. I'm still the face. That was the biggest baptism of tart fire I have ever experienced. is nothing, nothing can quite prepare you for how little your time is your own. And this is also me being brutally honest. Like I love my daughter and obviously I fought so hard to have her, but I also feel like as women in business, we don't have enough of these honest conversations. I don't have time to do anything on my own, Athena, ever. ever. I have no buffer time. I have no transition time. I literally don't have time to wash my hair. And it sounds dramatic, but it is true, right? If I want to wash my hair, I can, but my daughter will be somewhere roaming around. I have to be able to not have shampoo in my eyes so I can see what she's doing. I don't have any minute of any day that is just for me now, because even though my daughter's not with me now, I'm working. So I'm working back to back. Then when I finish this, I have a five minute drive to nursery, pick her up. Then it will be dinner, bath, bedtime. And tonight my husband does five a side football because he also needs to have outlets. Then I will do my walking pad at 7.30 when she's in bed till eight and then it's a quarter past eight. And then it's basically do the whole thing again. So. However, so with all of that being said, I absolutely validate it is incomparable. And also if nursery rang me now, I'd have to go. I would have to go because I'm also the default parent. I'm the one that's closer to her. I'm the one that is self-employed. I'm the default. Even though I also then have bigger things to shift. I work less days. I don't do Monday to Friday. I don't have as much freedom. When I'm then... If someone messages me on a Thursday and a Friday and says, can we hop on a call? I can't, I have my three-year-old with me. And it's my time to be with her. But even if I wanted to, if I said, let's try and do a 10-minute Zoom, that's not happening. That isn't happening. When she's in the house, there is no silence. She's constantly talking or playing or singing or dancing. There is no minute. So the stark contrast between now being a business owner and an entrepreneur to being a mum to a toddler to then trying to be an individual. and like just be Sam is wild. The logistical warfare that goes into me being able to say yes to go for a dinner with a friend is wild. I don't control my own life anymore now. Luke does. If Luke's not home, I can't leave the house. I can't see my friends unless he's back from work. I can't do anything unless I get permission from my husband that he's gonna be home because otherwise who's got my kid? So the realities are I'm so much more restricted. in terms of, do you want to come to this event? Okay, it's on Friday. Well, actually my daughter has ballet and swimming lessons. If I don't take her, who's taking her? So do I go or do I then miss out on swimming, which I pay for, ballet, which I pay for, her hobbies, her day with me so that I can go to work? All of that has to get weighed into it. The mental load, the mental capacity, the bandwidth. So yes, it is the wild west. However, however. The other thing that I'm very good at and have always been very good at is organization. I'm quite an A type personality. I like having a plan. Everything's in my calendar. I know what's going on. I think that with all of that being said, which is the truth, the other thing that is also the truth is my business hasn't suffered at all. My business didn't take a drop in income, a drop in profit. My business didn't take a drop in... success. I still was on front covers of magazines. still traveled to internationally to speak at different events. My business still continue to sell out programs. Things didn't have a dip. So as a mom, yes, me personally had a massive sacrifice in terms of like my bandwidth, my time, you know, all of those things, but my business, it didn't all crumble. And I wasn't kind of left with nothing. And it's like, God, what am going to do? That didn't happen. Just to share that with you. But what I did have to do was become an even better master of time. And I would say I also had to re-prioritize because the other thing that is hard, and it was hard even before we had our daughter, Luke has a full-time job, I run my business. I have these ambitions and this is what I want to do and he's doing this. You still need time as a couple to do things. But now on top of that, we now need family time. He only has Saturdays and Sundays off. Sometimes I have to work on the weekends. So I now need to factor in family time, Luke socializing, Sam socializing, and Luke and Sam time. And we only really have one person to look after our daughter. So on a regular too, like Luke's mom and dad, but I mean, Luke's dad's here. So all of that is now something that I have to constantly navigate. But again, it's a choice. what I choose to do and how I choose to spend my time and who I choose to spend it with and what I prioritize and what matters to me and what I choose to commit to, they're my choices. So I could 100 % have so many reasons not to do things, but that isn't how I choose to live my life. No, do you know it's amazing speaking to you Sam because it's just so real and I know that there are so many people at the moment literally driving nodding like one of those Churchill dogs going like yes, yes, you know and look I've said it before and I'll say it again I can't ever begin to imagine what it must feel like to try and create and run a business and have the children at the same time. I can't, I don't have it. I know what it feels like to create a business but without a child there. Of course there are other personal things, there's lots of other things and breakups and things but I can't imagine. So Sam, can you help me here then? For anyone who is in a position listening to this podcast, who's at the very beginning of building their business, I know that you had the years where you were able to build it without the children. There were lots of women out there who've just done it in a different order they have the children they're probably actually your daughter's age but they're now like do you know what Athena I want more I don't want to have these restrictions of the job anymore I want to do it what is your top pieces of advice for people brand new starting um business in some way shape or form Well, before I give advice, my first truth is it's going to be very messy, but that's not a bad thing. And I love the messy middle. When I say messy, I mean, you'll be working like a Monday night, a Wednesday lunchtime, you might steal a nap time. Like it's going to be messy in that sense. It's not going to be protected times and days every day, the same all the time when you're starting, because you have to be able to say yes to way more things to get yourself out there. You know, you've got to be, to get a business off the ground, you're the only one moving it. So to push that snowball up the hill is going to take quite a lot of effort. But once you get to the top of the hill and the snowballs gain momentum, you can just push it and it will go on its own. So when I say messy, I don't mean that in a negative way, but I mean, there's going to be a lot more, Oh, can you just grab the kids from school? Because I've got, I just, I need to go to this event or, can I just see if I can work this out or. Do you think I could do that? Or I might work till midnight. There's going to be a little bit more of that. That's the first thing that I would say. And that's not a bad thing. And I did that even though I didn't have kids. I had a full-time job. And then I was building a business. So you're all going to be rambling your way through something. But my piece of advice would be... You have to be able to look at yourself and answer the question, am I giving my version of 100 %? No one else is, right? And this is the other thing. My version of 100 % is not the same as someone else's, but I have to be able to say, if I've only got 20 % to give today, if I give that 20%, that's 100%. So you have to be able to ask yourself, am I giving this my 100 %? Because if there are, and the other thing you need to do is you need to be able to become unapologetic about asking for help. Because even when I started my business, I was a teacher, I was always in my overdraft and I sat with Luke and I said, this is I want to do. And he was like, okay, cool. And I was like, I'm going to need this from you. I'm going to need this. I'm going to need that. Even now I'm like, you I need your help with this. I need your help with that. And yes, it causes conflict sometimes because he's like, wow, no other, I don't know any other wife that. I don't know any other man that has to do as much as this, but then I'm the only one that does what I do. So, know, swings and roundabouts, but I try and be as open as I can, but I would say you need to make sure that you're giving your version of a hundred percent. And the other thing is you need to be unapologetic about asking for help when you need it. And the final thing I would say is, Know your non-negotiables and stick to them. If you've already got children and your non-negotiables are that you want to be able to do bedtime five out of seven, stick to that. Nothing's worth that. So if there's another event that comes up, but you're already out twice, really sit with yourself and decide is it worth it? Because if you go and can't enjoy yourself, you've got the mum guilt, you're distracted, you want to go home anyway, don't put yourself through it. It's not fair. It's not fair on you, it's not fair on the kids, it's not fair on what you're building, the people you're networking with. So they would be my three things. Number one, are you giving your 100 %? Number two, are you unapologetically claiming and asking for what you really want to be successful? And number three, stick to your non-negotiables because if you don't do that, you've got nothing. Beautiful. Perfect. Absolutely beautiful. And then when you're talking about like this mum guilt aspect, because a lot of mums have this where they feel all the time, I have the same conversations, they feel guilty where they're at the events or they feel guilty where they're working, where they then have mum guilt because the children are growing up and they're missing things. But then they then feel guilty when they're being mum and then they feel guilty that they're not working on their business. What about that part of it? How do we, how do people deal with that? Yeah, I mean, I would say as well, I come from a background where I don't have a relationship with my mom. So obviously that is amplified for me. I want to give her everything I didn't have. there's, all of you will have your layers of why monger was there. know, some of it will be because of your childhood. Some of it will be because of your relationships. Maybe you had postnatal depression, PTSD, you know, there's so many things that can happen that you're never told about. Like I had my daughter and had severe PTSD. had one of the most traumatic births. I was like, it was horrific. But of course no one talks about that and you know, that's fine. That's for another podcast. But there are going to be so many reasons that you feel mum-guile and it could be how they entered the world. It could be relationships, all the things I've said. It could be your childhood, your parents. But for me, Yeah, Mum guilt for me is always about the fact that I want her to know that she's my priority. Like she is my number one, no matter what. Like none of this matters if I can't be there for her, if she's her, if anything's happened. And that is true. Like I would often go to events and leave early or go out with friends and leave early. Like I'm like, this is it now. I've reached my quota. I need to go home and this is what's happening. But again, go back to the beginning of what I said. It's all about choice. I'll choose to do this, but I will make the journey longer for myself so I don't have to miss a night at home. I'm doing it in a few weeks. I've got three events and they're at opposite ends of the country, but I will only be away for one night because I'll choose to drive home late. So at least I see her for 10 minutes. That's my choice. This is what I mean. Know your non-negotiables. That helps my mom guilt because I won't put myself and even at the moment I have some amazing people offering me amazing opportunities and to attend amazing events and go to amazing things. award ceremonies and all of those things. And I don't say yes as readily anymore because I have to think about the impact it will have on my emotions, like my actual nervous system. So for me, I think that the way that I would navigate mungill is don't put yourself in situations that you know aren't good for you. That's the first thing. that's about learning who you are. But the second thing I would say is you can always balance things out. That's how I see it. So if there is a situation where I am away for two days, I'll balance that out with doing something when I'm home so that it's like extra, this is what we're doing and this is what matters. And I'll always do the things like FaceTime and be available to her. Like she is the most important thing, like full stop, full fucking stop. So whatever happens, she knows that. So does my husband, so does everyone else in my life. That's like an absolute, like that is an absolute. So I know that and I know that that's where my conviction lies and that's where everyone that knows me now knows that's my biggest non-negotiable. If I then do feel mum guilt, it's not because of anything else apart from, oh, like, oh, I'm going away and I would love to see her, but it's not the same. It's not crippling for me. It doesn't override. So my advice would be... know yourself as a mom, know yourself as a woman and act from that place. And if that means that it takes a little bit longer for things to move forward for your business or whatever that looks like, the bottom line is you can't chase success and then be burnt out and resentful of it. you want true success, is it lasting? True success, is it being repeatable? True success, is it actually changing your life? If you're chasing your first hundred K, your first 250 K, your first 10 K month, if you're chasing that so hard that when you get there, you're like, that was so brutal. I never want to do that again. That is not success. So if it means that you're getting five K months for six more months, but you're happy, balanced, regulated, you don't have mum guilt so badly that you're not sleeping at night. That is way better for your family set up your parenting and your business. And I would say even if you're not a mum, that would be my advice. Even before I was a mum, slow and steady has always been sexy for me. I don't want to work with people that are going to come to me and say, solve my problems in five minutes. I'm not the person for you because you need to know what it feels like to make eight grand, 10 grand, 20 grand. You need to know what it feels like to know if it actually makes you happy. You also need to know what it feels like to have to do the work because it takes a lot of work. It takes so much work to create success, but it takes even more to keep it. It's like the Olympic champion. It takes very much to win gold. But if you want to do that again, you have to do everything you've already done twice. So I know so that would be what I would say with mum, girl, it doesn't, it only gets worse if you're going to keep putting yourself in situations where you don't allow yourself to thrive, you don't allow yourself to. And yeah, you know, there are times now where I miss out. And obviously, I hate FOMO. I do hate that. But then I also then have to think, well, sometimes it's worth it. And sometimes it's not. So I just have to sit with myself and and negotiate. you know, Luke's also, he's going to Hong Kong in next week for work for a week. And I've been invited to speak at an incredible event and I can't because I need to be at home. But also, again, I'll go back to the start. That's my choice. I always wanted to have a child. And if I have to miss out on things because I need to be a mum, that was the choice that I made. then, but if Luke wasn't in Hong Kong, And there was an event, I'd be saying, you need to come home from work early, mate, because I've got to be out of here. And he'd be like, cool. And there are times where I'm like, you've got to go to work a little bit later because I'm launching and I need you to just do this hour before this. can you do the nursery drop-offs for this and blah, blah, blah. So it swings around about. And the, and the other thing I would say is everything that is meant for you will come to you. Even if it takes a bit longer, like I said to you, you could have a kid at 44 and it'd be the best thing that ever happened to you. And you'll look back and go, I could never have done that at 34. Everything will happen. that's the other thing I would say. Don't push so hard that you sell your soul to your business. Do know what I mean? So anyway, don't think that answers the question. Honestly, Sam, could talk to you for ages, but I'm gonna respect your boundaries, I'm gonna respect your time, because obviously I know that you've actually got a call that you have to go on, and I'm gonna respect that with you. But I genuinely could talk to you for hours, because I think that there's so much depth to you, and I think there's so many other, I'm gonna get you back on basically, if you'll have me, because I just think that there's so much interesting conversation that people aren't talking about. Yeah. here's a summary really quickly that I just want to say just before I let you go. So sorry, guys, I'm doing this. No, I to say, don't worry. I can tell my client she'll be fine. It's fine. worry. Well, I just want to say, so the first thing is, think you said something really beautiful at the beginning, which is um build a business that feels good. And you know, Sam, I was at your event and you said that, those are like your opening words. And I went, yes, this girl speaks my language. Because do know, I had a moment when I was in, I had a moment when I was in Dominican and I was sat. I sat on a sun lounge and I was looking at this and my algorithm has certain people now, know, who are very successful women and they were pumping hard. They were launching, were pumping, they were pushing and you know, I watched it. I watched those stories and it's really interesting because I'm doing a lot of subconscious work at the moment and I thought, do you know, to me that just wouldn't feel good right now. Like I'm good. I'm good going slow and steady. I'm good doing my little thing over here. And you know what the universe does? The universe is really interesting Sam, because I've started to really open my eyes up to this now. I'm watching these. Now the old Athena a year ago would have gone, oh, she's pumping, she's pumping, she's pushing. Right. What am I launching? What am I doing? Let me do the same thing. Didn't do that. I sat quietly, sat quietly. Two ticket sales came in just because two ticket sales came into the retreat. Didn't need to push. Didn't need to pump. just happens. And I think that when you come from this place of genuine, like building a business that feels good, it's like what you just said, you spend the beginning of your year pushing this boulder up a hill and then the momentum starts going and all you got to do is just tap it ever so slightly. Just tap it. But I tell you what, it's hard work doing it without kids. It must be bloody hard doing it with kids. But I think if you do something that feels good and it feels right to you and you make the choices that you make and you're like, and you sit there and as you said, Sam, think a beautiful way to summarize this is to say, did I give a hundred percent today? Because if your hundred percent is, Athena, I woke up, I got dressed, I got the kids dressed, I took them to school, I ended my job. I did something, I did an hour for my business and then I did the school thing in the evening and the kids and bath and all of this. I gave a hundred percent. I'd go, girl, you did amazing today. I brav, bravo, you know? more of us need to do that because I think the other thing is, and again, yeah, we'll definitely talk about this after, but I think the other thing that is an absolute disgrace, to be honest, and it's so disappointing is women are incredible, right? We're such an exceptional species. I think that when it comes to creating success, when it comes to business, when it comes to workload, the expectation is that the woman will carry everything. And it does come a point where some of you will be listening to this and you're like, I can't carry anymore. And I think that the biggest disgrace is, and this for me has been a massive change. I will not apologize for my drive and my ambition. And if my husband or the male allies in my life cannot, cannot step up to support a woman in succeeding, in general, we've got a massive problem. because I don't want to be in that situation. So yes, I will be a mum over anything. I love her more than anything. But I would also wildly defend my success in my business because it's something I've worked so hard to create. And if that means that my husband needs to step up or step in, that's an expectation that I would say is very normal to me. That's not him doing me a favour, it's his kid. This is the reality. And if you're a single mum, you are an absolute hero. Fuck me, right? You deserve all of it. But if you don't have a partner and you have parents or you have siblings or you have childcare, everyone in your life, I believe, should be there to help you thrive and to help you succeed in what you want success to be. And that's what I expect. I expect to be able to succeed because it will change my life and it will change everyone around me's life. but do not expect to sit at that table and enjoy the meal I pay for if you don't have me cook it. That's just not happening. So I think that's the biggest thing for a woman. If you're listening to this and you are feeling not supported, you're feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling extra burnt out when you shouldn't, you're feeling the pressure of doing it all. My first question before you try and fight your way through it is what support do I need? Where do I need it? And how can I get it? Because having support is your biggest asset. your biggest asset. It doesn't make you vulnerable, it makes you stronger. Sometimes that will be in mentorship, sometimes it will be in partnership, sometimes it will be in childcare, but however you are getting support, that is the biggest reason you will succeed. And the final thing, I'm the one keeping us up now, don't worry, but the other thing I would also say is once you do have people that rely on you and you have children of some sort, And I say that because you could have stepchildren, know, there's so many ways that you could have children in your life. You could have nieces and nephews. One thing that I never wanted, and now I have a daughter, so she's a woman, is I would never want her to believe that she was the reason I couldn't protect my ambition. I would never want her to think that she was the reason that I couldn't be on the telly, I couldn't be on the interviews. And she sees that now. I'll be on magazines, I'll be doing photo shoots, I'll be in car commercials, I'm doing all of this. But the number one priority is have I sorted out my daughter and is she happy and safe? Yes. Then I'm going to go out there and do it. And that's what want her to see because when she has children, I want her to see that, you know, like I just think we all need to do better. And it's the same for you though, right? I need to be an ally to you. You're single in your mid thirties, life looks different. That doesn't mean that we can't go out and have a drink and I can't go out with my single friends and have a great time. but then it doesn't mean that you couldn't come to my house when I'm on my own with my kid and you've got to have a takeaway because I can't leave the house. As women, we have to be able to adapt to each other. And if a woman doesn't have what another woman has, whether it's kids, a husband, whatever, but you are all still trying to create wild ambition beyond anyone else's comprehension, support one another. So if you are a mentor and you've got clients that are moms and they're breastfeeding, let them get their boob out, who cares? If you are a mentor and you are working with clients that want to get pregnant, support that because babies are not the enemy. They make things harder, but it's not the enemy. So I think, on all fronts, we have to stick together as women and we also have to demand and unapologetically take space for the support that we want. Otherwise, people will let us keep taking the load. Yeah, absolutely. Well said, Sam. Well said. we have to get you back on. The girls are literally like, we are so pumped. See guys, I said to you, me and Sam, which is like, coming in from different angles, but yes. And just, I love what you're saying. And I think that really quickly, think about if I, again, just go back to the subconscious work and I am who I am because of my mum. Like I'm blessed. I have an incredible relationship with my mum. I know I'm lucky. I know I'm one of the few. I understand that. I'm grateful every day for my mum and my mum was... Yeah, but mum was a single mum, Mum was a single mum. Mum raised me and my brother, right? I watched what my mum went through. And so I'm like... I think there's so much with that because I watched her be a single mom. watched her do the whole, got to pick you up from school or I've got to get another person's parents pick you up from school or I've got to have five au pairs living with us because I'm a single mom. Like, and for me, I think I've got fear around that because I'm like, what if that happens to me and I've got to become a single mom and I've got to go through what my mom went through and I don't choose that. And I've got fear around that that I'm now working through with my own subconscious to go, I've got a block where I believe that that will happen to me and I believe that someone will abandon me. And so... You know, we're all going through our own stuff at the moment. I think I just want this podcast to be really open and real to say, you know, everyone's got their own stuff. You might look at someone online and go, look at her in Dominican or look at her in a car commercial or look how amazing they are. And this, this aspect, my God, Sam, do you know what this aspect of she's smashing it? my God, you're smashing it. No, no, no, no. We are all just doing our best. And I think That's all it is. In our own way, we're just doing our best. Sam, if I can just have you for two minutes, two minutes, my final question, because I think it'd be a great question for you, is I want to ask you the same question, which is, on a podcast, somebody once asked me, they said to me, Athena, what's one thing in life that nobody has ever asked you, ever, that you wish that somebody would have asked you? What would you say? God, I'm such an open book that I don't, I'm such an open book that I would talk about anything. So I think in my time of being interviewed, and I've been interviewed a lot, I don't know Athena to that, because you could ask me anything. I don't I got stumped by this. I was silent for like three minutes because I said, I was like that. And you know, she did, she just stared at me. She was like, well, what's one, what's one thing that no one's ever asked you? Yeah, do you know what? I've been asked all sorts. I've been asked so many things are so abstract from like, what's my favourite food? If I lived on an island, what would I want to do? Like, would I be killed by a polar bear or a dolphin? Like all sorts of stuff. Like I've had all sorts. uh Well my one was what scares you? Like no one had ever asked me what scared me. What scares me the most is not being happy. That's it for me. I think I've done so much. I've done so much to strive to tick boxes to impress people. And that comes from my own childhood and my trauma. I've done so much to try and be the success that everyone wants and all of that, that now I just want to be happy. You know, like I've done so many things. And like you said, it is, I tick box it. But when I really think about what I've done, I know that my life now is very, very extraordinary and I've created a completely different reality. But there have been points, as you know, from listening to this, where I've been so unhappy and so, you heartbroken and the success means nothing if you're not happy. And I've made so much money. I've lived in my dream home. I've done so many things. I've been all over the world traveling. First class, I've stayed in suites. I've done it all. I've done all of that. And I love that. But what I love more is that I work every day to be with my husband of 15 years, that I have a daughter that goes to bed happy, that I have friends that have been my friends since I was 15. know, like my core values of success are my friendships and the people that I love, still being with my husband through a lot of challenging situations and having a happy home. The thing that scares me the most is losing sight of that and going back to what I used to do, which is just fight my way forward, my ego, like, let's just keep going and competing and doing and doing. Whereas now I think a bit like you, you when you said that, I think, you know what? I like who I am and I'm happy. And if that means I make 10 grand less this month or whatever, do know what I mean? I'm being pedantic about it, bit facetious, but I think that the marketing and the way we perceive success is not. doesn't drive me in the same way it did. So that would be what I'd be scared of. I'd have all the success and not be happy. I would hate that. Beautiful, beautiful. I love that. And finally, because we didn't do it at beginning, what you're celebrating. What am I celebrating? could be anything. Tell me something you're gonna celebrate. well, I've got a meeting to become a governor at my daughter's school which she's not going to for another 18 months Athena but this is what I mean when I go all in I go all in so I'm so I'm to become a school governor before I even have a kid at school like hello! m I wish I had a child just to send it to a school that you're going to be governor at, literally. But this is the other thing as well that I would say. So I'm celebrating that, but I'm also celebrating because again, like I said at the start, I don't have any time. Time is like, you know, not my friend, all of those things. And I know people are going, don't say that because you manifest it, but I have all the time for the things I love to do. So now I'm going to add on being a governor. I can't wait for that. You know, like if it means that my hair looks like this, but I get to run my business the way I want, I shower, I wash my hair less, but I get to have these conversations. Cool. That's a choice I'll make. So I think... My time is abundant, but it just in very random ways. So that's what I'm celebrating. I'm going to become a governor. Woohoo! I love that. What a good way to finish. I love that. And by the way, I'm the same, like literally, like I just think we set ourselves free when we turn up, but like I've literally just washed my hair. My hair is now... Effectively ridiculous like it looks stupid, but I just don't care because it's like I care more about the conversation I care more about just being like raw and yes, we both cried on this podcast and who cares? It's fine. Like we just have to like go over ourselves and I think once we go over ourselves the world becomes the most beautiful place and em And I'm quickly just celebrating since before I just mentioned this on the podcast Literally while I was away I was able to just do so much amazing work like I was in my element two weeks sunshine um And I've now got as of when this episode airs which is the well is airing next week on the 23rd when I literally landed back in the UK I had five tickets left to my retreat which is happening in April. So guys if you're listening to this I'm really sorry if actually there's a post that's gone out that means that it's sold out I'm really sorry if it hasn't sold out see this as your moment. There are five tickets left Probably three maybe two go get your ticket Yeah, Friday 24th of April, come have these come have these like real conversations like I'm so done having plastic surface conversations like people that are going to stand there and show you a Ferrari like I don't care come and speak to real people and that's not a chat GPT saying real that's me saying real. Okay. Um, but anyway, Sam, we've to get you back on. I love you. I think you're great. But thank you so much. Now women are gonna want to get in contact with you. Where can they find you? Just your name, Yeah, SamanthaHern, Perfect. And as always guys, I am Athena Dobson, Underscore Official. girls and property and if you've loved today's episode please don't forget to share, like and subscribe so that we can bring you more content like this but everybody go be a mum, go be a single woman, go be a married woman, go be whatever woman you want to be, go be a badass but just be you, give 100%, give your all and just know as Sam said beautifully to always ask for help and support it is the best thing you can ever do so I love you lots, have an amazing week I'm gonna go get some rest and I will see you all in April Take care everyone, love you lots. Bye for now.