The Expat's Guide to UK Property Investing with Sophie Dand

Ever wondered what it would actually take to build a property portfolio from the other side of the world? That little voice telling you it's too complicated, too risky, too far away.

In this episode of Girls in Property I'm joined by the brilliant Sophie Dand, who went from international geography teacher to building a multimillion pound portfolio whilst living abroad. Not just investing remotely but turning it into a full business helping other expats do the same.

Sophie breaks down how she spotted the gap in the market, the team she built around her (brokers, solicitors, builders) and why the UK is still one of the safest plays for anyone living overseas. She talks honestly about the fear, the analysis paralysis, and the moment she stopped waiting for permission and just started.

Because if you've been telling yourself you can't invest in UK property because you're not in the UK, this one is going to change your mind.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So guys, I have something so fun for you today. I have somebody that I've known for some time and actually I've known this person since kind of we, in a way, like got into property actually at the same time and hung in the same circles. And some of you might not know this about me, but a long time ago, me and um my very good friend and old business partner, Sophie Foote. we used to run something called Star Collective and we don't do it anymore. But Star Collective was like this accountability group that we started as it were and we had various people come to us. And this particular person came into the accountability and there was always something about her that for me really stood out in terms of her tenacity, her ambition, the way that she always came with questions and action steps. And for me, she was always quite frankly, a star within Star Collective. And what's really interesting is, kind of like watching her journey, my journey, and kind of going, kind of at the same time being like, wow, we really are moving in a upwards trajectory, as it were. And today, she is going to be doing her debut podcast on the Girls and Property podcast, which I think is so fitting when you hear about her story and how many episodes she's actually listened to you of Girls and Property itself. And today it's going to be all about this notion of taking A person who has been an expat, who has lived abroad, has the most amazing stories of living abroad as well, which you know is my specialty and I love. And how she's become a property investor in the UK and done some incredible things, but also now showing others how they can also actually live abroad, uh be expats and actually invest in the UK. And so today is going to be all around fun, education, value, and also getting to know this incredible, incredible human being. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Sophie Dand. Hey Sophie. Hi, morning, Athena. you know what? I totally forgot about that star collective group we were in. We were such babies, weren't we? We were so young and I know it only, what was it, like three years ago. We were so young and naive, weren't we? We had all these big dreams and very big aspirations. it's so nice to be back talking to you properly three years later and thinking back to all the stuff we've done in the last three years and all the stuff we've achieved and how far we are away from those... little girls that we were three years ago just getting into property. So yeah, it's like a full circle moment being back on the podcast and being back on your podcast, well, on your podcast. do you know, it is and when I think about it actually, I think about like it was only three years ago. So three years is actually not a long period of time. And, do know, I always say this actually, I think you have to start there. You almost have to be like slightly delusional with your thought processes and be, oh, literally. you just, and you know, you have to try things. You have to be like, right, this is what we're to do. And we did start collecting for about a year, I think just over a year. And like I said, like you would always come in and you were just. Hungry Sophie, right? The way I would describe you was a hunk I mean literally and you just really really stood out and I remember I genuinely said to Sophie I hand on heart I said to Sophie foot I said to her Sophie's gonna go far. So if he's gonna go really really far and and you were you were just doing so many things and you at one point were even like giving loads of advice and loads of help to the others in the group and I don't know there are certain people in life that you just see right and you're just like They actually really want this. And I think that that's what it is. And it's funny when I look back at us for three years and it's almost like if me and you were sat at a table with our younger selves, I'd probably just giggle and go, girl, you've got no idea. I know, it's crazy. But I think like when I first joined Star Collective, I'd just quit my job. So you're saying hungry, I was desperate. I was like, right, this has to work. You have to do everything possible to succeed because otherwise you're going back to work. And so I'm sure like I didn't feel desperate. I didn't feel like this has to work. But I guess that that side of me was coming out. And yeah, I think it's good to have that, right? It's good to be. really hungry and desperate and keen and this has to work, there's no other option because then you give yourself no way out and no chance to back down. And I think that's definitely where it was. I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. The only caveat I'm going to say to this, because this is important for anyone listening to this, is one thing that I personally have learned recently actually, is to be hungry and ambitious and slightly delusional, which is always fun, is always great. I tell you what though, the word, the word, what we've got to be really careful of for the listeners is the word desperate. Because what happens is, is when you get desperate, you actually hold on to things too tight. And so when people come to me and they say, you know, I'm desperate to make this work, you actually make mistakes because you don't lead from a place of abundance. You lead from a place of scarcity. And then what happens is, is you go and you, for example, will find a m deal or you'll say something like, I just have to get my first one. I just have to do this. So I think what you're saying is correct. I think what you're saying is it's like you had no choice because your back was against the wall. Hmm. in which case you couldn't go backwards, you could only go forwards. And in which case you had to make it work. That's drive, that's ambition. But what we need to say to the listeners is that we should never come from a place of desperation because we hold on too tight. And actually the way in which I've learned that things blossom and grow is when you give them space to breathe, for me personally. And I think, em like when I first joined the Star Group, when I first started talking to you, I'd spent nine months during the time that I was working preparing for that. So I felt like I was in a really strong position because I knew what I wanted to do. I'd done my research. I've been to my networking events. I'd spent nine months being in a position. So when I quit my job, I knew where I was going and what I was doing. So I think yeah, I think desperation is perhaps the wrong word. think it's right. It's here, it's now. You've prepared for this moment. Now it's time to make things actually happen. And that was, yeah, the point I was at, was like, right, there's sort of no turning back now. You've prepared for this moment. You've quit the job. Now it's time to, you know, get the ball rolling and start doing the deals that you have prepared for, for the last six to nine months. Oh, yes, Sophie. I can't wait for the, I can't wait for everyone just to get, just to hear, hear you and hear everything. Cause you are, you're brilliant. And you know, with only, I mean, cause, cause it was a similar time. So you're, you're, what would you say now? Three years in the industry? Would you say three? Three. Yeah. So three years. So what's gonna be great about today's episode is, is we get obviously lots of people on this podcast, lots of different types of experiences. But sometimes what's really beautiful is to bring people on who go, look what you have achieved in three years to inspire others today to go do you know what if Sophie can do it I can do it if Athena can do it I can do it and that's what I want to do today so thing to, like for myself to think back on as well because sometimes you can be really critical of what you've achieved and you you look at other people and you think oh I haven't done this, I haven't done that, I should have done more. But if you think about you know you and I where we were three years ago, if we looked at where we are now we'd be so proud and we'd be so like we'd pat ourselves on the back and think you've done really really well and I think it's sometimes quite humbling and quite important to do that. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this as like a really good chance for people to see what's possible in three years, but also a chance for me to sort of celebrate what I've also done myself in the last three years. Do know, I completely agree with you. am with this podcast. I actually find this podcast quite therapeutic for me as well, because, know, especially when I do my solo episodes, I feel like I'm talking to everyone who's listening, but I'm also talking to myself. So when I do like my reflection episodes, I go, I literally in that moment, I'm sitting reflecting going, my God, like look what's happened. So let's use that for you today, Sophie. Let's really celebrate. Let's really do it. So of course this is your debut episode ever for a podcast. And it had to be girls and property, let's face it. Yeah. So first of all, can you introduce yourself? Tell everyone about you. You know, the subject of today is going to be this expat lifestyle, what you've achieved in that, and now kind of the niche that you are now moving into and the gap that you've seen in the market. So who are you, Yes, so hi, I'm Sophie. um I worked as a geography teacher and head of geography at independent and international schools all around the world for over a decade. um It was in that job working internationally that I realized I wanted something more. I was bored of being an employee. I was bored of doing a really good job and being paid the same as people who were not doing a very good job. um And when I got into teaching, I had two aims. I wanted to be a head of geography and I wanted to teach internationally. And I was doing both of those things and I was in my early thirties and I looked at the next 40 years of my career and the promotions and the pay rises didn't excite me. And so I made the decision that I was going to quit my job at the end of the next contract, move back to the UK and work in property. was something that I'd had an interest in for a while. So in my last six months of employment, I digested as much property information as I could. I attended online networking events, online seminars. um I moved back to the UK. I did the same for four or five months in the UK. um And in the last three years, I've built a multimillion pound property portfolio. I've bought properties at auction. I've done HMO conversions. I've got houses that are now multiple flats. uh I've done loads and loads of deals. I've replaced my teacher salary, so I no longer have to teach anymore, which is fantastic. um And now I help expats who were just like me four years ago, who want to get into property, but don't know where to begin, build their own property portfolios completely remotely without having to quit their job, without having to do the year of research and networking, without having to move back to the UK, and without taking the risks that I did. Because the first deals that I did, you know, they weren't perfect. They, you know, weren't perhaps deals I do now. There were deals that I left more money on the table than I needed to because I didn't know exactly what I was doing and I was confused and new and naive. And I help expats stop making those mistakes by giving them uh basically a hand holding service um from the UK while they're internationally. While they're internationally. it feel saying all of that? Yeah, it's crazy because it's like I couldn't do what I'm doing now with expats if I wasn't one. So I'm sort of like the stuff that I'm doing now is because of decisions I made back in 2018. And it's crazy to think how like life is like sliding doors, right? If you don't make one decision in 2018 or one decision back in 2012 when you finish uni to start but know, trained to be a teacher and then get a job at this school and then get a job at this school and then decide to go internationally and then leave. like all the different decisions you make result in where you are right now. um And yeah, it's quite strange to think that's just small decisions that you made result in, you know, your entire life. So I had the similar feeling a couple of weeks ago. So I taught at Rugby School in the UK. and I taught at an international school in Thailand. And I did an event for expats at rugby school in Thailand, so the international rugby school in Thailand. And I was like, wow, this is a real full circle moment. I met like the love child of my two last teaching jobs, rugby school and an international school in Thailand. I'm talking to expats, I'm teaching expats, which is kind of like a mixture of my two businesses now. And I'm talking all about property, which is what takes over all of my life right now. And so it was like a, wow, every single decision I've made has led me to be in this moment talking to these people. And it's, yeah, it's really, really strange, but really, really exciting. And I'm really pleased about where life has taken me. Hmm. I love that. And I think, I think you said it earlier, you know, you were ready for it as well. And what's been brilliant about this, which is what I said to you before we came on the podcast, you saw a niche, right? So you took your transferable skills and everything that you had learned up to date, literally like the butterfly effect, like you said, and you've taken those transferable skills and you then said to yourself, what is, I think the best way in, in, in anything, forget property for a second, I think in business and in life and in property. The best thing you can do is say to yourself, what are my transferable skills, which is what you've done? What is my experience? And what is the gap that is needed in this market? What is the gap? And what you've done is you've gone, here is the gap. I can fill it. So I've got the experience. And then that's where all the then the clients and the customers have then come from. And I think that that is such, that is such a beautiful thing. And I say to so many people, It's not about just trying to fit in the box that already exists, right? It's sometimes about creating your own door or creating your own box and how you can be different. And, you know, I love the fact that, you you've been out in Asia recently, you've literally just come back. Even when I said to you, just before we tune into the podcast, I was like, are you in the UK? Are you abroad? Like, where are you? Because you are away all the time and you're literally living and breathing as a person who is traveling and investing in the UK. And I think that that's so important to showcase. And I know Sophie for a fact that I get messages all the time. And we've had like, Judy Talbot come on before. We've had other people come on before who literally now don't want to live in the UK anymore for various reasons. They want to live abroad. I'm one of those people as well. You know, I've got no, I've got no ties to the UK. Like I could literally go anywhere and it's like, well, where could we go? And then how could we still invest? So I think it's a massive, massive market. If you were to talk about what you there for, based on what you've just said, and as I said, it being a therapeutic moment for you to reflect on yourself, what would you say that you are celebrating at the moment, either personally, professionally, where are you at? Yeah, I think um I'm trying really hard in 2026 to um like you do property for a lifestyle, right? And that was the main aim why I got into property. I wanted my time and my freedom and my flexibility. And I'm trying to really separate those two things and be quite intentional with those two things. And I know that I think one of the conversations I remember from when we first started speaking in Star Collective was I was saying I'm spending time with my grandparents. Yeah. When I'm at my grandparents, I'm spending a lot of time on my phone and I'm trying really hard to separate personal and professional and have that boundary because you know as a business owner, it can be all encompassing and you can spend, you know, Monday to Sunday, eight to eight working on your business. And that's not why anybody gets into it. So there's two things I'm celebrating and I'm going to split them into personal and professional. So professionally, as you said, I've just come back from Asia. had an amazing trip there. I met so many experts who are interested in property and so many who want to do it, so many who followed my journey from, I hate that word journey, but so many who followed my, I don't even know what other word to use, have followed from when I was in progress, yeah, from when I was uh living abroad to now um investing in property full-time, um who want to do similar but just don't know where to begin. And I realized while I was out there, there's such a big market for it. you know, I'm... kind of the missing piece to the puzzle that lots of people have been wanting for ages. And I've signed up and onboarded so many fantastic clients. Not only am I really excited to help them build their portfolio, but I'm just really excited to work with them. They're just really nice people. um providing a service is great, but providing a service to people who are really great people as well, who you're really excited to see succeed. um Some of them just want... um you know, extra cash so that they can keep living abroad but just live a better life. Some of them are looking to exit teaching. Some of them have inherited money from grandparents and want to use it for something really worthwhile. And I'm really excited to help these people do something amazing and see these people succeed. So that's like a professional one. um Personally, so the reason I got into property was just to have more time. And the thing I love doing my time is traveling and playing sports. um And I made a rule this year that I'm going to go away once a month um and that's going really well so far. personally as well, like to play paddle is my main passion. m And I got injured in January, which kind of got in the way of that. um But in the last few weeks, I've got over that injury and I'm playing like six to eight hours a week again. So I'm feeling really good about that, feeling really healthy and fit at the moment. So that's good. Oh, I love, there's nothing better than feeling really healthy and fit, it's the best feeling. Where are you going to this month? Where are you off to? I'm going to Morocco this month. I've never been before. But it's my birthday at end of the month and I like to be away for my birthday. So I'm going to go to Morocco. You've been, haven't you? No, we've not. Not at all. I'm with my partner. lovely, amazing. Yeah, so I've been to Morocco and do you know, so I went to Marrakesh and it's just incredible. Like learning about different cultures and when you're walking through the souq is so beautiful. If you can, try and stay in like, more like the Riyadhs as well. Yeah, they're just something else. Because the Riyadhs exist basically within the walls. So actually within sort of the walls of my kitchen. honestly. And there's like 12 bedrooms and they just like, and when they pull the tea and they like the skill of pouring like the tea when they like hold it like really high. Yeah. So, and it's dead. friends for, I was like, where should I go? They're like, oh, I've got a really nice, like all-inclusive that I went to. I was like, it's just not for me. Like, is there a camping trip I can do somewhere or is there like a camper van I can hire or, you know, just something a bit crazy and a bit different. That's my kind of holiday. So yeah, really excited. what's really interesting? Because mum still works for TUI, know, bless her, she's not retired yet. She's definitely going to be retiring in the next couple of years. So while we can, we still do it. So mum obviously works for TUI and gets these amazing discounts on some of these trips. So we do such a variety because, know, variety is the spice of life. So always at the beginning of year, you'll see me in some sort of all-inclusive because it's literally a discounted TUI five-star hotel. And I'm like, I'm... with that are you? You're going to do it, of course. aren't going to turn away. And you're like, right, I'm just going to go to the Caribbean. We're just going to go chill. But then we've actually got, you're going to love this, we have got a trip planned for end of August into September. I'm away for the whole of September, the entire month, because I don't know if you saw this actually on my stories, but some people listening to this are going know what I'm talking about. Leading up to New Year, we put 12, 12 wishes in a bowl. I saw it, You saw, yeah. So anyone who didn't see, we put 12 wishes in a bowl. And what you do is that you write 12 wishes and you scrunch them up and then your 12 wishes for the year. And then what you do is you burn one a day leading up to New Year. And then on the day that New Year hits, the first you open up and that is your wish, that is your responsibility and your job for the year. And I opened it up and on it, it said, you need to be away for your 35th birthday. That's what it said. And I said, right, okay. Next day, me being me second of, and actually mum too, because she's brilliant. 2nd of January, we booked and we're going to South America for, we're going to Canada for two weeks, end of August, and then we're away for a month in South America. So we're doing Chile, Argentina and Brazil. So we're literally going to be on this massive trip. I said to mum, bring a backpack, we're going. And the best bit, oh, I don't know if I should admit this, but no one, I don't think anyone's gonna hear this from my work, but I was like, mum, you get, she just booked it. And then she's like, oh, I better get the leave off now. And I went. What do you mean? I was like, what if you can't get it? She's like, oh, it's fine. I'll just quit. But she managed to get it. Yeah. So we're to go to like a Grasso Falls. Yeah. So on my actual birthday in September, when I turned 35, I'm going to be in Argentina in Buenos Aires. yeah. So it's going to be really, really cool. All the tango show. all the tango show. yeah, as you know, mine and your kind of where we really come together. So if it's enough, I know I love for travel and I'm like you, I can do the all inclusive, but for me, I love culture, I love learning and that's what I love about you is that you just get stuck in and you're well, you live and breathe it, it's home for you. So you just go for it, which I love. it, like whenever I go on these trips, my nan is always like, why, why are you going there? I just don't understand. Why don't you go somewhere normal like Benidorm? No, nan. No, nan, I'm not going there. No, of course. um But yeah, give me a strange Chinese city any day of the week. tell me about it. And then when I think about what I'm celebrating at the moment, I was thinking about this actually with you coming on, I'm actually gonna celebrate today actually giving the listeners a message today. Because I tell you what, someone said something to me recently and it's really, you know when someone says something and it really sticks with you in the back of your head, they said to me, I can't remember how it came up in conversation, but they say, Athena, I see you as a messenger. They're like, that's how I see you. I see you as a person who's like a messenger and I'm like, hmm, interesting. And that's really stuck with me. And so I thought, right, today I actually want to celebrate with giving a message today for everyone listening to this, particularly because you're on it as well, Sophie, which is this, I put up, by the time this episode comes out, a couple of weeks ago, I was putting up some, uh post about some things that I'd read recently that were like inspiring for me or like came for me at like the right time. And, and I was reading them and the beauty of it was after reading all these quotes and messages, I actually created my own one and I was like, right, what is like a message that I would create that it would be that I would give a message to people? And my message was, and this was why I wrote, said, and I came up at it like two o'clock in the morning, it was about 2 a.m. and I wrote down, the moment you decide to change your life is when your life actually changes. And I wrote that at 2 a.m. because It's like you Sophie, right? There's been so many moments where you've made decisions to change your life and to go somewhere. know, last year I, you know, I left a long-term relationship. I've moved back to London. I'm now looking at buying businesses. Like I'm now in a position where I'm literally changing my life because I've made a decision to change my life. And I think that what happens is, is too many of us sit kind of waiting for life to happen or waiting for something to push us or waiting for... Godot or God knows what as it were, that's a book by the way, Waiting for Godot. it's like, like what if we were actually the captain and we chose to get off the ship or we chose not to get off the ship but steer it in different direction and actually to change our life. And I think that's the message I'd love to leave and celebrate today, which is to really say, know, what are you, to all the listeners, like what are you gonna do to actually change your life? One step. closer to where it is you actually want to be today and actually do something about it. Yeah. No. the only person that's going to save you is you. And like one of the things that frustrates me most in life is listening to people moan about something that they have the option to change, but don't. And it was like that in teaching. And I found that quite a difficult environment to be in with everybody moaning about it and saying, I hate it, I hate it, hate it, I hate it. But then not doing anything about it and just coming back the year after. and starting in September and moaning and coming back the year after and moaning and not doing anything about it. And I found that really toxic environment to be in, just like so much negativity and so much, I don't want to do it anymore. And one of my friends actually, she left teaching the year after me and she was saying, do you know what? I don't like it anymore. I'm going to make a change. And I admire her so much. She quit her job. She was teaching in Bangkok. She moved back in with her parents. She completely trained herself. in coding and data analysis. And then age 30, she got a graduate job working for Sainsbury's as a data analyst. And I was like, wow, that's so impressive that somebody decides they don't like something, completely upskills themselves doing online courses and training after moving back in with their parents. And then she got her dream job in London, moved to London, knew nobody, moved into a house share and just having the most amazing time. And I just think that's so inspirational. incredible that somebody didn't like something, decided to change their life and then did everything they needed to do to create an entire new world and life for themselves. Yeah, she didn't need huge amounts of money. She didn't need to do anything special. She just made a decision and applied herself to do it. I mean, she thought it was incredible. Yeah, yeah, love it. I love the shout outs as well because this is what we want to inspire people to do. It's like for me at the moment, you know, if you'd have asked me a year ago, for example, would I ever think about buying businesses? I'd gone, no chance. I know nothing about buying businesses. I know nothing how to do that. And I still don't. But you know what? Recently, it's just my mindset that's shifted. It's beyond that actually. It's subconscious work that shifted me, where I've literally gone, okay. I'm just going to learn how to do it. Like it's a skill essentially. And actually when you see it be done in front of you, because obviously I got the opportunity to do that recently, I actually go watch a live deal get done. It's actually not that complicated. It's just, you just got to, it's actually not, and I mean that in the most respectful way. It's kind of like, you've just got to understand the relationship. You've got to understand the negotiation and kind of how it all fits together. And yes, there's technical terms and yes, there's all these words flying out and how you're going to like finance it. But at the same time, it's literally like if you can do property or you can do sales, it's the same thing. And I said to myself, right, I don't know, I don't know. And I'm literally going to document the whole thing to go, I don't know how to do this. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm learning how to do it. And I'm going to go and get one. And I'm just going to, and I'm literally going to create like a blog about the whole thing to show somebody how you can go from like zero to getting what you want in a short period of time. And the only differences is the person who's steering the ship and the mindset that that person has. So Yeah, and I love your friend and I love that story of your friend how she literally just changed her entire life and that's so important. So Sophie, let's talk about it then. Let's say that someone's listening today and someone is listening to you and they're going, Sophie, I hear you. I want to either be abroad or I already live abroad or, you know, I really want to invest in the UK, but I live in Holland. I would get loads of those, by the way, loads of people that live in Holland want to invest in the UK. talk to me then. So let's think about this being really good and valuable. So when you're talking to people, on a daily basis who would message you and they let's say live abroad. What is the advice that you would give to them if they want to invest in the UK? What's the plan? Yeah, so I always say to expats, say there's two ways you're doing it. There's no reason that you can't invest remotely without using somebody like me to help your hand, to hold your hand. You can do it completely remotely. And I say the most important thing you do before you even go on to write movies, you understand why you're investing in property in the first place. So what is the reason that you want to do it? Is it because you want to your job? Is it because you want to build long-term wealth? Is it because you are living abroad and you don't have a pension that you're paying into like you would do in the UK, especially teachers? um Is it because you want to replace your salary or is it because you are fed up with flying economy and you want some extra cash that you can fly business every time? What's the reason that you're doing it? um And I'll have these meetings with expats where we'll understand what the point is and that will help to identify their strategy. Because obviously if they're looking to replace their salary by to let's is probably not going to be the one that does it because the cash flow per month is a lot lower than sort of an SA or a HMO. So once we've understood their main goals, their main aims, we'll look at what cash they've got available. Because I know there's lots of strategies that involve, you know, not having capital available. But if you're living abroad, a lot of those strategies might not be possible for you because they require you to be on the ground or be a little bit more hands on. So we'll look at what cash they have available. We'll then look at their risk appetite and you can identify whether you want something that is gonna be pretty hands off, pretty put your money there, have somebody manage it and let it do its thing over the next 15, 20 years. Or if you want to be involved in refurb, small refurb, heavy refurb, title split projects, et cetera. Once they have figured all of that out, you can start identifying areas that you want to invest. So looking at infrastructure growth, the types of tenants that are there, the types of investment, the types of jobs, what actually you're able to afford based on your um capital available. We'll then start to um think about what kind of property. So we'll start to look at, they going to buy a three bed semi and try and rent it out to a family for a really long period of time? Are we looking for a turnkey HMO? Are we looking for something that's a big development project? What kind of actual house do they want? And yeah, and then once we found the property, um either I can help them get a mortgage through my trusted expat mortgage brokers, help them through conveyancing with the solicitors that I have that deal specifically with expats. We can liaise all of the documents for them. So lots of solicitors are bit funny about sending documents overseas. I can make sure that's done, setting up limited companies, making sure that they have UK phone numbers, et cetera, and then sort of guiding them all the way through the conveyancing process. So you can do all of that without me for sure. There's no reason that you can't. But what I do is I sort of take away the risk factor for expats. I make it so if you need somebody to look over a deal for you, I can help you do that. If you want somebody to find you a deal, I can help you do that. If you want me to give you uh contacts for builders, I can help you do that. And basically the risk removal service for expats to help them do things without losing money and a lot faster than they could potentially do them if they were trying to do it on their own. I love that fantastically said beautiful and then why would it be that people would actually want to invest in the UK? So let's say that I moved to let's just say that I moved to Thailand. Let's take Thailand. Let's say I moved to Thailand um You know, why is it that I want to still invest in the UK over moving my life to Thailand and now buying property in Thailand? Yeah, so the number of reasons, a lot of expats feel safety and security in the UK property market. Perhaps they have family or friends who've invested in UK property before and have seen them do well. And when you're abroad, your options are UK property, you can invest in stocks and shares, and you can invest in crypto. Stocks and shares, I mean, this year with the political landscape of the world, we're looking at the S &P 500 is predicted to do less than 2 % this year, which is obviously not great. And also you're not going to get cash flow from a stocks and shares investment. Crypto scares a lot of experts I speak to for a number of reasons. One, it's so volatile. So, you you could have a hundred grand in crypto one day and then it could be 20 the next. And yes, it could be 150 the next day, but then it could be 20 again. So again, the volatility is very stressful. And also the thought of having your whole life on a USB stick. terrifies me. Like I don't know how many USB sticks you've lost in your life, but I mean, I lost so many essays at school. So the thought of having your whole life on a USB stick is just terrifying. um And so UK Property gives people that sort of asset-backed security investment. um And also people like knowing what they're buying, they can actually touch it, they can feel it, they can see it. um And of course you get cash flow, plus you get your long-term capital appreciation. And UK property, I you the UK fundamentally has a housing crisis, has a housing shortage. The government hasn't met its 350,000 properties per year house building target since 1970. And there is a massive rental shortage. So I've got a flat in Rugby. It's a very average flat in a very average part of town. It's near the train station. It's a studio, 42 meters squared. It's not brilliant, it's not beautiful, it doesn't have Neff appliances and a Cougar Tap, it's just a really nice refurb studio. And I put that on the market and I had over 60 applicants for that one studio flat. There is just a huge demand for good quality rental properties. And so, you know, if you're a landlord and you're providing good quality properties, you're going to, you know, be in a really, really strong position. And I think that's a really tempting and appealing. thing for expats to know that if they produce something and they're doing something good, providing good rental accommodation, they're able to have quite a safe investment as well. I love that and so from the people that you've helped so far even the conversations that you've been having when you've been overseas and traveling What would you say are the main? Risks or the main problems that really come up for people when trying to you know, be an expat and actually invest in the UK Yeah, so this is actually the question that I ask at the start of all the events that I hosted in Asia was, you know, what stopped you from investing before? The main thing is being on the ground, being able to do viewings. And I know that myself. When I was first looking at properties while I was in Bangkok, I'd speak to agents and I'd say, hi, I'm really interested in this property. And they'd be like, okay, cool. When can you come and view it? And I'd say, okay, well, I'm back in three months. So, you know, I'll be around for viewings then and they just lost interest in me. ah And, you know, you've got to be on the ground, you've got to be there, you've got to see the properties. And if you're an expert living abroad, when you're coming back to the UK, you're seeing family that, you know, potentially you haven't seen for three, six months, you don't want to be doing 20 property viewings to find the right deal. ah And then as well as that, if you're working full time, do you have the time? to be doing all of the research, all of the due diligence into all of these different areas to figure out what it is that you actually want, where it is you want to buy it and what kind of properties work. uh And then if you want to do a refurb, how could you manage that completely remotely? And they're the main issues that expats are expressing is actually you need to just be on the ground. em And if you can't be on the ground, you need to have somebody who's on the ground for you. And that's the sort of way that I've able to... you know, step in and help them. I'm on the ground. I know the agents. I know the properties that work. I've got a build team. I've got the contacts to be able to, you know, turn a deal that you see on right, move into a profiting asset. ah And that's the fundamental thing that expats don't have is that framework and that infrastructure. Hmm. I hear you and I'm just trying to think about this like, know You growing this this property business of yours this this turnkey experience, you know If we think about I speak to so many people honestly Sophie on like a daily basis who have got this like vision in this dream and they want to create this turnkey business and they want to do all these things like what do you think was the thing that you what were the almost the um, the parts that you had to get together to create the property business that you have now like you talk about this you know, we've got a team and we've got a power team and we can do this and like, that takes time to build. You don't just like come out of a womb and suddenly this team's presented to you. Like I want, I want listeners to really hear, like I always think, Sophie, what's important to talk about is actually what, what happens in order to get these things because people love hearing the success stories and they love hearing like, like kind of like the finished, like let's picture like a Victoria sponge. They love the look of the Victoria sponge, but they don't want to talk about the, yeah, yes, great food. but they don't want to talk about the ingredients that it took in order to get there and the method that it took. So talk to me about when you were at Star Collective, you didn't have like this whole turnkey thing. So how did you go from being that girl in Star Collective who had a dream and who was, I think doing like a church conversion at the time or something, convent to now having this turnkey business? What were the components that you had to put in place for it? Yeah, it's been a journey and like you kiss a lot of frogs, right? To find, I wouldn't call my builder a prince, but to find your princes. eh And I think that, you know, the reason I'm able to offer this turnkey um solution to expats is because I've built this team myself over the last three years. It's not something that you can just go back to the UK, make a few phone calls and suddenly you've got a power team that is able to, you know, fulfill every requirement you have. It's taken, you know, three years to be able to do it. So when I moved back to the UK, I had nobody. I had you guys in Star Collective. That was about it. And it was literally a case of trial and error. And the solicitors that I've used that have messed up deals for me, they've taken so long during conveyancing that vendors have pulled out. I've had builders that I've been almost signing a... a contract with, I've been doing one final site visit and there's just been too many red flags that come up. I've got other plumbers that I've used that I don't use anymore. I've had uh cleaning teams that I've used that I don't use anymore. It's been a real journey over the last three years of finding businesses that align with me and my morals and my standards. um And yeah, it's been really tricky. So the build team that I've got right now, I've used them for the last five or six. projects and they are amazing. They just, know what I want. They know what my standards are for my finishes. They know that if we're on a timeline, we're on a timeline for a reason. It's not just because I want it done by X date for no reason. They know that finances depending on it or whatever. I've got solicitors that, you know, know that if they send me a document, I'll sign it and I'll return it straight away. And they give me the same sort of respect and do uh their side of it really quickly. I've got a broker who I've used uh for the last eight deals, who's been incredible. He's called Matthew Lawrence, shout out Matt mortgages on Instagram. He is amazing. um And again, he wasn't the first broker that I used. I used a different broker, a recommendation um from a family member for my first deal. And I just thought, The numbers don't seem great on this. You know, you've seen, I've seen so many examples of people doing, so was a HMO conversion. I've seen so many examples of people doing these on Instagram or on LinkedIn. And now when I'm doing it, the numbers just seem a little off. Everything seems a bit higher. So I just, I saw Matt on Instagram and he was doing loads of really good content and I sent him a message and I said, can you just get me a quote for this HMO conversion? These are the numbers. And what he came back with was just so much better than the original deal I had. And I was like, wow, amazing. So again, it's a second broker that I've used. I'm on my third solicitor, um second build team. So it's just a case of just, you know, using people. People can sell themselves really, really well, but you don't necessarily know how good people are at what they do until they're doing it. And unfortunately, that sometimes means that you have to have some crappy experiences with people to... figure out what they're truly like and how they truly work. um always said it's like dating. I've always said it's like dating because you know, some people get really lucky, right? Some people just find their person at 13 and their childhood sweethearts and you know, they live happily ever after and die together and it's all wonderful, right? Sometimes that happens, okay? And sometimes we've got to kiss a lot of frogs. Sometimes it happens and we learn each time we do it about what we want and what we don't want and I say this and for me, again, being a messenger, I get a lot of messages from people who... I can feel that they're almost trying to get all of their ducks in a row before they start. And I completely understand why and I completely respect it. But it's like they've got such a fear of it going wrong and messing up that it stops them and they have therefore analysis paralysis and they have the fear and then they therefore they don't take it forward at all. And what again, as the messenger, what I say to all the listeners is listen to what Sophie is saying. She's saying, well, actually this is my second broker. This is my third solicitor. This is this. No one is going to unfortunately do that process for you. Yes, you can get advice. Yes, you can join communities like mine where we give recommendations, but at the same time, you have to do your own due diligence. It has to be what's right for you. And so sometimes it is just about going for it and taking the balls by the horn and just saying, right, I'm going to give it a go. It could go wrong. It could go right. And you know, that saying of, you know, well, what if it goes wrong? And people say, well, my dear, what if it goes right? And having that in you because that's the only way you're ever gonna literally grow and learn and go again. That is the way to do it. So I love that for you, Sophie, and I love the fact that you're now taking that knowledge that you again have built up over that period of time and you've now packaged it as a business and you've said, right, I know that I can help you to do this and this. And I think the best bit is, and you said this earlier actually, the best business is in my opinion, is when you notice a gap in the market. and you get really good people, like really good clients, and you provide a really good service. Because then it feels good for them, and it feels good for you, and you just get repeat business. It's the best feeling. that I'm doing now, it sort of came about by accident. It wasn't something I was planning on doing, but since I moved back to the UK, friends who were in Southeast Asia were saying, oh, I really like what you're doing with property. Do think you could help me get one? And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Like, here you go, get this one, buy this one. Here's my broker, here's my solicitor. I'll go and view it for you. Here's all the analysis. And I just do it for free. And I was doing it I was thinking, hmm. Now, if these people want it because I'm their friend, there's obviously a market for it. And I'm actually spending quite a long time doing these kind of analyses and these viewings and handing over my power team that's taken me years to build for free. I should turn this into an actual official real business because there's clearly a market for it. And also I wish I existed for myself when I was in Southeast Asia. And I think that's... really strong business to build is build a service that you wish existed when you were in a situation when you needed it. So yeah, who knows, I could have still been on the beaches of Koh Phang Yang right now building my portfolio remotely if I had, if there was two of me, could have sent one over to do it and I could have stayed in Koh Phang Yang. You need two of you. That's it. Exactly that. And then so what advice would you, you know, I want to, I want to hand the reins over to you, Sophie, in order for you to be a messenger as well. Cause it's important for, for, for, for women and men who listen to this to really hear this from everyone. So let's say there was somebody listening to this right now and they were, they were either, um, you know, just, just starting out in property and thinking, Oh, do you know what? I'm listening to Sophie in three years and look at her go and I'm so inspired by her. Because obviously you used to be that girl, you used to be the girl Sophie that used listen to the podcast. You said to me, said, I've listened to so many episodes, I joined Star Collective, I was that girl three years ago. What would you say to the person now who is literally just three years behind? What advice would you give them? Yeah, great question. I'd say you've got to get out there and network and speak to as many people as possible. Go to as many events as possible. uh Don't commit to anything until you know your people because I see so many people spending thousands and thousands on their property education and um they sort of get hooked into these super sales, you know, whatever from these groups. You don't necessarily need to spend thousands and thousands. just get the right network of girls and women and men around you. And then you got to just go for it after that. I say, yeah, get the right network and then just start because you'll never have a portfolio if you don't start. You can look on Rightmove forever. You can speak and chat forever. But, you know, I learned more in the three months of my first deal than I did for the nine months of research and reading and listening that I did before it. um And if it doesn't go perfectly, then you'll learn more than if it does. So actually things not going well is a good thing. yeah, the most brilliant thing that I've done is just networking and speaking to people. I've connected with some really incredible people who get it. A lot of my friends don't do property. My partner doesn't do property. So actually speaking to people who do and surrounding myself with people who do has been really, really useful and really. fun and um those conversations, that is where your business formed from. You learned that actually other people wanted to do this. And that, think that's where, that is where the businesses come from, is where you learn these ideas and you go, actually what is it that's needed? What is it that's necessary? And it might be, for example, that someone's in a particular area. Like, you know, I had Amanda on the podcast, who was talking about her area, Stoke-on-Trent. And, know, she found a really big niche for property management in that area and things like that. So it's about conversation and it's about having. having that ability to really be visible, to say, is what I'm doing. Cause I feel like when you speak things into the universe and you speak it out, things shift massively. Like coming back to this notion of your life changes when you actually want it to change and you do something about it. And you start having conversations like you, Sophie, you when you did yours, your friends came and went, oh, that looks really interesting. Can you help me get one of those? And then you're like, oh, you know, the light bulb moment of, oh my God, I should monetize this. So yeah, you can make money from anything. I was thinking, was like, what was my intention when I started? And I don't actually know what the reason was I started. It was just because I got a lot of my inspiration and information from Instagram. So I thought, okay, well, maybe I should be doing that kind of thing. I didn't really know what the aim was when I started, what the point was. um But I'm so glad I did because now I've got sort of three years of like credibility and history and diary entries, basically. showing what I've done over the last three years, which has prompted people who I didn't really know from my former life being like, oh, I see what you're doing. I want to do something like that. So yeah, I think that's another really important piece of advice is just document everything because you never know who's watching. You never know how useful it will be. And even I love looking back at some of my original posts on Instagram. find them so funny and so... like oh bless me. you know there's one, there's one photo, there's one particular photo that I've got and actually one video which is I recorded myself because we had to as part of the program that I was on. I recorded myself doing my first ever call to an estate agent ever. I propped my camera up and I did it and it's actually, if you scroll through my Instagram guys, go right down to the bottom, you'll be able to find this video and literally this poor little girl. me you know and I was I just I look weirdly very young even though it's like three years ago I look yeah I look really young I look about like 15 uh not the property that's aged us, it's the fact that we go on so many holidays now and spend so much time in the sun. That's mostly what it is. Bring them on. fine. But yeah, and I agree with you. think document everything and I love that. That's really, really good advice. So if you have got a question for you, actually, I'm going to ask you a slightly different question to the question I thought I was going to ask you, which is like, I was going to ask you about property disasters, but actually with somebody like you, my question is slightly different and... You might already know, because you listen to the podcast, you might have already heard me ask this question to other people before. Because it was a question that I got asked, God, it must be like a year now, like just under a year. And this person asked me a question at the end of my podcast that I was a guest on. And it completely stumped me. It stumped me for like three minutes. I was like, I don't know what the answer to that question is. No, you'll be fine. No, you'll be fine. But I'm interested to hear from you actually, because of your personality. Here's my question to you. What's one question that nobody has ever asked you that you wish that somebody would have asked you? So a question that nobody's asked that you wish they would have asked you. um That is a good question. I would say, I'd say, do you know what's a question that people rarely ask that I think is quite a nice question is, are you happy? I think people never really ask that question because people, and me especially, I'm always like 100 miles an hour, like booking the next trip or going to play paddle or doing something property related or going on viewings or whatever. Everyone's like, you're having a good day or what are doing next? But I think people rarely ask whether you're happy or not. And I think it's quite an important question. I think it's something that you should always ask yourself quite regularly to encourage pause and reflection. But yeah, I think it's a good question. I don't think people ask it enough, but I think it's a question. Well, I guess if you're happy, it's a nice question. If you're not, it's not a nice question. But yeah, I think that's a good one. you know, I love that. So that was the answer. I can't remember who it was, but somebody gave that answer as well when I asked them the question on the podcast. And they said, they said, no one's ever asked me if I'm actually happy. And they did say that. And it's really interesting one actually, Sophie, that you said that. So I was talking to Jackie Laws on a podcast recently, we were talking about personal branding and she was talking about mirror work. So with her mirror work, what she does is she says basically, she looks in the mirror and every morning she says, I love you. She says to herself, I love you. And there's no cameras, there's no anything, it's just the mirror work that she does in terms of self-development and love. And actually, listening to you just then, I'm thinking to myself, I wonder if actually a really beautiful one would be, is to stand in a mirror on your own, right? Because I find that you can lie to many people, but you can't lie to yourself. And you actually say to yourself in the mirror and you look yourself dead in the eye and go, are you happy? Are you actually happy? And to listen to that answer. Hmm. if someone goes, you you happy, you go, yeah, I'm great, lovely. But if you ask yourself behind closed doors, I think it's a very, very different question. There's different intent. And by the way, you're completely right, Sophie, because, you know, and I've been very open about this. I've been completely open about this last year. You know, from an outside perspective, you know, I was, I was, I was like you, right? I was a hundred million miles an hour. The business was booming. You know, I, I became a six figure business owner. Business was great. I was just like, go, go, go, holiday, let's go, do, do, do, like this. And actually on reflection with the work that I'm doing now, number one, I had no idea I was living with anxiety for a year, had no idea. And two, I was absolutely miserable, like completely miserable. And it's when you actually come out of either a relationship that actually you shouldn't have been in, or you come out of like a life that you're like, actually, this isn't the life that I want to live. It is the most freeing thing in the entire world. because you almost just say to yourself, like, I choose a different life. I choose to be different. And now it's really funny. Now, you know, I'm back home living with mum again. I'm 34. I've got no partner. I've got no kids. I've got, you know, a lot of people look at me and go, are you poor thing? you're 34, you're back home and what you doing? I'm like, you joking? I'm in the best, best place I've been in like years. Because now I can actually look at myself in a mirror and go, are you happy? And I go, hell freaking yeah. Hell freaking yeah. Because I have nobody to prove anything to. Nobody. The only person I have something to prove to is myself. And that has taken, honest to God, that has taken me, I reckon, and the work that I do. So I was doing some more subconscious work this weekend with the people that I do my mentoring through. And it's incredible, like the amount that you can just purge and release from your body to be like, I don't need to hold this anymore. Like your opinion of me is not mine to hold. Your emotion is not mine to hold. And when you actually release it from your body, it's just the most extraordinary thing, which is why I talk about it so much, because I believe in it so deeply that it is the thing that can change your life. Like it's one thing to say, show up on social media and you know, tall agents and do this but if you have a fear of being invisible you are never going to do any of those things because you simply cannot do it because your psyche, your subconscious won't allow you to do it. So I think that's a beautiful question that you just asked, really beautiful because we're just last people aren't we? for so long, think, and for so many people, happiness is stuff, right? And happiness is like big cars and loads of money and, you know, fancy holidays. And I think, I think for me over the last three years, I've realized that happiness is not all of those things. Like in Thailand, people are like, my God, you are living the dream. You're, you know, you're going to Phuket one weekend and Ho Chi Minh the next weekend. And then Philippines for three weeks. It looks incredible. You're living in the sunshine. But I think I had like a psychological burnout from work. felt I had no goals. I had nothing to build towards. I, you know, wasn't close to family and I wasn't necessarily happy. And you realize actually happiness is so much more than stuff and going places and big houses. It's actually like something innate, isn't it? It's something that you you can't necessarily pinpoint what it is that makes you happy or whether you are happy what it is that's causing that happiness. It's like a peaceful state of mind, um which is so nice. sometimes the happiest weekends I have is when I'm just like mooching around the house, in the garden, go for a walk, have a nice coffee, know, pop to the local pub, nothing fancy, nothing outrageous, nothing showy, just... because I'm in this really nice like equilibrium, happy, calm state of mind and everything in life is just nice and easy. um Peaceful, peace, yeah, exactly. Can't put a price on peace, can you? You definitely can't put, you know, you can't put a price on peace, absolutely. And I think that for me, that's what I, at this moment in my life, that's what I'm striving for the most. So whenever I go into meditative state at the moment, and we keep going down the rabbit hole, as I call it, and they keep pushing me down the rabbit hole deeper and deeper and deeper, what always is at the end of this rabbit hole is this peace. That is what I'm seeking in life, is inner peace. And it's so amazing because I know I'm going to achieve it at some point in my life and I'm going to get there. But it's just true peace, you know, because our brains are so quick. But I love that, Sophie, and I love the honesty of your episode today. And you did exactly what I said at the beginning of this podcast to you. I said to you, know, imagine a person listening to this or like you listening to this three years ago, and kind of the conversation and kind of the... um the heart in which you would want to hear it and you've done that today. So congratulations on your debut episode. You survived. Well done. I feel like, you know that Friends episode where, you know, where Joey has like that interview with like soap opera digest woman and he's like, right, I'm finished. And then he says something really stupid at the end. I'm like, right, okay. I've just got a minute to go. so Sophie, so many people are going to want to get in contact with you and connect with you and like learn more about you. So where can they find you? Yeah, so I'm uh at property with Sophie on Instagram, Sophie down on LinkedIn and Facebook. Yeah, amazing. And as always guys, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official, Girls in Property. And then don't forget, you know, just a couple of sort of updates from me. So number one is that we do have the Girls in Property community. So, you know, if you listen to this podcast, you either listen regularly or you're new, go and check it out. Please go to www.girlsinproperty.co.uk and then you can put forward slash community or just put .co.uk and you'll find everything there. It's brand new website. So it literally has all the information on there. Finally got around to rebuilding it. So. It talks about the story of girls and property. talks about why it exists. It talks about why I built it for myself and I saw a gap in the market. And the community is now built to over 130 women across the UK. So it's beautiful because now, you know, when everyone comes into it, there's always somebody in that local area that they can then meet up with. And we do local meet. So you've seen that recently me and the London girls met up. Some of the Midland girls are meeting up for coffees up in the North. So come and have a conversation with me. If you want more information, just DM me the word community on Instagram or have a chat. It really is one of my absolute greatest joys of this life is the community and seeing all the women connecting, bringing everyone together. Of course, we have education on there as well. So we've got a library full of content because we meet up online on the first Tuesday and third Tuesday of every month when we do property and business education. So for example, coming up in April, we have got the seven pillars of wealth. Kevin, Kevin, we then is going to be coming in to talk about that on Tuesday, 21st of April. We have just had auctions. Before that we had deal sourcing, before that we had personal branding. There's everything in there and it's only 30 pounds a month. So you don't spend a fortune, you don't spend thousands. It's just about bringing people together in the right area. And then if you are genuinely interested from an educational standpoint, then two things. Number one is that I have a free link on my show notes. Go and check it out. If you're interested in raising finance, I have actually given you the free session which I did in the community with a fabulous guy called Motul Islam who runs Progressive Property Network in Stratford and he talks about the easiest ways in auditory finance. So it's free, go and check it out and you can see the type of conversations we actually have inside the community is kind of like a test drive if you like. And then if you want further education, then have a look at the work with me section on the website. There is a section that is all about the Girls and Property Accelerator program. So you'll hear me talk a lot about Strategy and soul and strategy and self-conscious work is exactly what Sophie said it's about understanding who you are why you're doing it What is it that's driving you and then really looking at the strategy and then bringing it together? It's a six-month program It literally is what I wish I had when I first started and it literally changes lives So check out some of the lives on my Instagram that you can see some of the previous graduates and their experience of it And we are going to begin in May at the end of May and we've got a couple of spaces left So again, give me the word accelerator and let's have a chat Sophie, I would love to leave you with the parting words for the listeners today. So what are your parting words? My parting words are, you can't build a property portfolio without buying property. So you've got to just get out there. You've got to start. You've got to go to those viewings. You've got to go to those networking events and you've got to put those offers in because you don't want to be sat here in three years time thinking, I should have started three years ago. I could have started three years ago. So just get going, just do it. Figure it out along the way. Don't wait. Beautiful, well said. Perfect words. Gorgeous message Sophie, love that. Yeah, what is it that they say? Best time was yesterday, second best time is today. Like, go start. And third best times tomorrow if you have to wait that long. There you go. Love it. Sophie. Thank you for coming on today. Congrats Congratulations on your podcast. I'm celebrating you today and I'm celebrating everyone else listening to this who is going to move the needle to move themselves One step closer today if I can do it and Sophie can do it. So can you so have an amazing week? Positive energy setting you low to love and take care. See you soon ladies. Bye