{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":3.78,"endTime":6.18,"body":"Welcome back to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":3.78,"endTime":6.18,"body":"the Stigma Conversations with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":6.18,"endTime":10.26,"body":"me, Imogen Tyler. If you're new"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":6.18,"endTime":10.26,"body":"here, you might be thinking"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":10.26,"endTime":13.74,"body":"what's left to say about stigma?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":10.26,"endTime":13.74,"body":"Now I want to be really clear,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":13.77,"endTime":17.22,"body":"it's great to see how many taboo"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":13.77,"endTime":17.22,"body":"busting conversations are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":17.22,"endTime":21.3,"body":"happening today. That's the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":17.22,"endTime":21.3,"body":"essential – life saving actually"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":21.33,"endTime":24.78,"body":"– in mental health, for example."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":21.33,"endTime":24.78,"body":"But I think also at the same"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":24.78,"endTime":28.95,"body":"time as talking about how stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":24.78,"endTime":28.95,"body":"makes us feel – how it plays"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":28.95,"endTime":34.17,"body":"with our psyches – shapes how we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":28.95,"endTime":34.17,"body":"value ourselves and others. It's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":34.17,"endTime":37.92,"body":"crucial also to ask big"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":34.17,"endTime":37.92,"body":"questions about how stigma is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":37.92,"endTime":43.77,"body":"produced and why. Once we do"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":37.92,"endTime":43.77,"body":"that,– and look up at power, and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":43.77,"endTime":48.69,"body":"back at history – we see how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":43.77,"endTime":48.69,"body":"stigma is totally wrapped up in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":48.69,"endTime":54.21,"body":"politics, economics, capitalism,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":48.69,"endTime":54.21,"body":"colonialism, patriarchy. That"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":54.21,"endTime":58.89,"body":"means we can start to see stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":54.21,"endTime":58.89,"body":"as a power, a practice, a kind"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":58.89,"endTime":63.09,"body":"of machinery – as something"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":58.89,"endTime":63.09,"body":"created to serve the powerful."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":63.6,"endTime":67.44,"body":"And that means we can stop"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":63.6,"endTime":67.44,"body":"thinking \"that's just the way it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":67.44,"endTime":72.06,"body":"is\", and ask for better. In this"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":67.44,"endTime":72.06,"body":"series and meeting inspirational"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.87,"body":"academics, activists and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":72.06,"endTime":75.87,"body":"frontline workers, to help me"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":75.87,"endTime":79.38,"body":"reflect – not only on how stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":75.87,"endTime":79.38,"body":"works and where it comes from –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":79.68,"endTime":83.64,"body":"but how we might resist stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":79.68,"endTime":83.64,"body":"and change the conversation."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":85.05,"endTime":87.18,"body":"Is that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":85.05,"endTime":87.18,"body":"proactivity Isn't it? Like"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":87.3,"endTime":89.67,"body":"actively having those"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":87.3,"endTime":89.67,"body":"discussions even though they"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":89.67,"endTime":90.87,"body":"make you feel uncomfortable?"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":91.44,"endTime":94.11,"body":"Why the hell would"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":91.44,"endTime":94.11,"body":"you want to not be woke? Why"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":94.11,"endTime":97.47,"body":"wouldn't you want to be awake to"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":94.11,"endTime":97.47,"body":"the issues of injustice in the"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":97.47,"endTime":100.56,"body":"world, to the realities of"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":97.47,"endTime":100.56,"body":"stigmatisation and its effects"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":100.56,"endTime":103.41,"body":"in society? It's disgraceful"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":100.56,"endTime":103.41,"body":"that we should mock it."},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":104.16,"endTime":106.11,"body":"We always"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":104.16,"endTime":106.11,"body":"have to understand history and"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":106.11,"endTime":109.53,"body":"the past to understand the"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":106.11,"endTime":109.53,"body":"present and the way in which"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":109.53,"endTime":113.88,"body":"stigma and labelling people and"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":109.53,"endTime":113.88,"body":"stigmatising people reproduces"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":113.88,"endTime":118.38,"body":"itself – be it a new way of"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":113.88,"endTime":118.38,"body":"doing it or the impact of an old"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":118.38,"endTime":120.75,"body":"way which carries on through"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":118.38,"endTime":120.75,"body":"generations."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":123.09,"endTime":126.09,"body":"Last time I talked"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":123.09,"endTime":126.09,"body":"with sociologist Alice Bloch"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":126.09,"endTime":129.12,"body":"about the history of stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":126.09,"endTime":129.12,"body":"power as a form of social"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":129.12,"endTime":133.86,"body":"control – about how stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":129.12,"endTime":133.86,"body":"physically marks or otherwise"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":133.86,"endTime":139.32,"body":"marks out society's most"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":133.86,"endTime":139.32,"body":"vulnerable people. In fact, it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":139.32,"endTime":144.3,"body":"works to make us vulnerable, to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":139.32,"endTime":144.3,"body":"divide and dehumanise us. And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":144.3,"endTime":147.75,"body":"today I want to bring that issue"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":144.3,"endTime":147.75,"body":"of stigma right into the present"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":147.75,"endTime":151.53,"body":"in the context of the current"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":147.75,"endTime":151.53,"body":"cost of living crisis in the UK"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":151.53,"endTime":155.58,"body":"– and the scandal of poverty in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":151.53,"endTime":155.58,"body":"one of the world's richest"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":155.58,"endTime":156.45,"body":"nations."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":159.93,"endTime":162.72,"body":"Now, there's a long history of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":159.93,"endTime":162.72,"body":"stigma around welfare and social"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":162.72,"endTime":166.5,"body":"relief – from the badging of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":162.72,"endTime":166.5,"body":"the poor in the 17th and 18th"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":166.53,"endTime":171.51,"body":"centuries, to the Victorian"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":166.53,"endTime":171.51,"body":"workhouse. Stigma has long been"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":171.51,"endTime":175.5,"body":"a way to ration resources and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":171.51,"endTime":175.5,"body":"distinguish between the so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":175.5,"endTime":179.19,"body":"called \"deserving\" and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":175.5,"endTime":179.19,"body":"\"undeserving\" poor. When"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":179.22,"endTime":183.69,"body":"official austerity came in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":179.22,"endTime":183.69,"body":"UK in 2010, there was an"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":183.69,"endTime":188.61,"body":"explosion of stigma power from"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":183.69,"endTime":188.61,"body":"above. Those in power had to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":188.61,"endTime":192.3,"body":"make the public feel that people"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":188.61,"endTime":192.3,"body":"receiving benefits were"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":192.33,"endTime":196.65,"body":"undeserving. And that didn't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":192.33,"endTime":196.65,"body":"just mean stuff you might have"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":196.65,"endTime":200.49,"body":"thought about before – the sort"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":196.65,"endTime":200.49,"body":"of tabloid headlines, the idea"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":200.49,"endTime":204.03,"body":"that benefits claimants are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":200.49,"endTime":204.03,"body":"scroungers and so on – I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":204.03,"endTime":208.62,"body":"this stigma also changed how we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":204.03,"endTime":208.62,"body":"looked at each other – it eroded"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":208.62,"endTime":212.88,"body":"compassion. people queuing at"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":208.62,"endTime":212.88,"body":"food banks became \"just how it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":212.88,"endTime":218.58,"body":"is\". This kind of massive"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":212.88,"endTime":218.58,"body":"production of stigma also"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":218.82,"endTime":222.96,"body":"strangely silenced people in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":218.82,"endTime":222.96,"body":"poverty and enabled the denial,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":222.99,"endTime":226.89,"body":"even, of poverty itself. So a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":222.99,"endTime":226.89,"body":"commentary emerged that real"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":226.89,"endTime":230.49,"body":"poverty doesn't exist anymore –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":226.89,"endTime":230.49,"body":"that somehow people claiming"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":230.49,"endTime":235.35,"body":"benefits were really living a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":230.49,"endTime":235.35,"body":"life of luxury TVs, tattoos,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":235.47,"endTime":241.23,"body":"fast food, lifestyles. In"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":235.47,"endTime":241.23,"body":"reality, life expectancy now is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":241.23,"endTime":244.68,"body":"actually falling in many places"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":241.23,"endTime":244.68,"body":"in the UK for the first time"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":244.8,"endTime":248.97,"body":"since records began. And in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":244.8,"endTime":248.97,"body":"2020, social scientists show"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":248.97,"endTime":254.04,"body":"that austerity cuts have"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":248.97,"endTime":254.04,"body":"directly contributed so 330,000"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":254.04,"endTime":261.3,"body":"excess deaths in the UK between"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":254.04,"endTime":261.3,"body":"2012 and 2019. In short, poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":261.3,"endTime":264.57,"body":"– and the lack of compassion"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":261.3,"endTime":264.57,"body":"that comes with the stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":264.6,"endTime":268.8,"body":"optics – kills. I wanted to get"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":264.6,"endTime":268.8,"body":"a view from the frontline of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":268.8,"endTime":272.34,"body":"current poverty emergency and so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":268.8,"endTime":272.34,"body":"back in November, I spoke with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":272.34,"endTime":276.69,"body":"Helen Greatorex – who's Chief"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":272.34,"endTime":276.69,"body":"Cfficer at Citizens Advice North"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":276.69,"endTime":280.2,"body":"Lancashire. Helen's also a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":276.69,"endTime":280.2,"body":"trustee on the Morecambe Bay"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":280.2,"endTime":283.59,"body":"Food Bank – and she and I met"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":280.2,"endTime":283.59,"body":"when we're both involved in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":283.59,"endTime":287.79,"body":"local Poverty Truth Commission."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":283.59,"endTime":287.79,"body":"I asked Helen – as someone who's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":287.79,"endTime":291.51,"body":"been at Citizens Advice through"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":287.79,"endTime":291.51,"body":"recent years – what's changed"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":291.51,"endTime":295.62,"body":"between the start of austerity"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":291.51,"endTime":295.62,"body":"and now? What has she seen"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":295.62,"endTime":299.97,"body":"happen – working on the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":295.62,"endTime":299.97,"body":"frontline at systems advice?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":300.24,"endTime":307.68,"body":"What we've seen"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":300.24,"endTime":307.68,"body":"since 2010 is a sharp decline in"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":308.07,"endTime":314.91,"body":"people's well-being around"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":308.07,"endTime":314.91,"body":"finances money, and support in"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":314.91,"endTime":320.55,"body":"their communities. Never before,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":314.91,"endTime":320.55,"body":"before 2010, did we give a food"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":320.55,"endTime":321.69,"body":"parcel out?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":321.69,"endTime":322.11,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":322.66,"endTime":325.54,"body":"Then we came to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":322.66,"endTime":325.54,"body":"2013. And then we saw the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":325.54,"endTime":328.75,"body":"introduction of, or the ideas"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":325.54,"endTime":328.75,"body":"for the introduction of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":328.75,"endTime":333.22,"body":"Universal Credit. And the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":328.75,"endTime":333.22,"body":"anticipated problems from that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":333.22,"endTime":334.24,"body":"were quite scary."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":334.57,"endTime":336.28,"body":"One thing that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":334.57,"endTime":336.28,"body":"really strikes me just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":336.28,"endTime":341.74,"body":"mentioning, like, emergency food"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":336.28,"endTime":341.74,"body":"aid there, and how that was a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":341.74,"endTime":348.61,"body":"totally new phenomena from 2010"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":341.74,"endTime":348.61,"body":"– is how normalised that's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":348.61,"endTime":353.68,"body":"become, because it's like, now,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":348.61,"endTime":353.68,"body":"I mean – we've just become used"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":353.68,"endTime":358.87,"body":"to every single shop – you know,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":353.68,"endTime":358.87,"body":"supermarket, mini mart – having"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":358.87,"endTime":362.56,"body":"like a food bank deposit area."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":358.87,"endTime":362.56,"body":"We've become used to that. And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":362.56,"endTime":367.6,"body":"we've become used to like food"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":362.56,"endTime":367.6,"body":"banks appearing more and more –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":367.6,"endTime":372.46,"body":"opening up food clubs, etc. And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":367.6,"endTime":372.46,"body":"it's become like a normal"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":372.46,"endTime":375.37,"body":"feature. But what we're"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":372.46,"endTime":375.37,"body":"currently seeing also is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":375.37,"endTime":380.65,"body":"extension like food aid into"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":375.37,"endTime":380.65,"body":"workplaces – so into hospitals,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":380.74,"endTime":386.59,"body":"into school – like it into the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":380.74,"endTime":386.59,"body":"whole kind of infrastructure of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":386.62,"endTime":390.91,"body":"like, public institutions, to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":386.62,"endTime":390.91,"body":"feed workers. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":390.91,"endTime":395.89,"body":"like very hard to step back"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":390.91,"endTime":395.89,"body":"almost and say, like that – how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":395.89,"endTime":399.58,"body":"did that happen in such a short"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":395.89,"endTime":399.58,"body":"time? You know, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":399.58,"endTime":402.91,"body":"actually seems really important"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":399.58,"endTime":402.91,"body":"to be able to be shocked about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":402.91,"endTime":403.27,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":403.36,"endTime":405.16,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":403.36,"endTime":405.16,"body":"you're right. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":405.16,"endTime":408.01,"body":"that's one of the strengths of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":405.16,"endTime":408.01,"body":"the service that, that Citizens"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":408.01,"endTime":412.09,"body":"Advice is – or that certainly"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":408.01,"endTime":412.09,"body":"our service is and I'm sure it's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":412.09,"endTime":416.38,"body":"replicated across the country –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":412.09,"endTime":416.38,"body":"is that, yeah, we we began to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":416.38,"endTime":421.66,"body":"see the provision of charitable"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":416.38,"endTime":421.66,"body":"aid – particularly around food –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":422.05,"endTime":426.13,"body":"become part of the welfare"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":422.05,"endTime":426.13,"body":"state. There's absolutely no"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":426.13,"endTime":429.55,"body":"doubt about it. We... at the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":426.13,"endTime":429.55,"body":"beginning, the DWP were"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":429.55,"endTime":433.24,"body":"instructed quite clearly not to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":429.55,"endTime":433.24,"body":"suggest that clients go and get"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":433.24,"endTime":437.62,"body":"food parcels when they were"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":433.24,"endTime":437.62,"body":"approaching the DWP saying I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":437.62,"endTime":441.13,"body":"can't live without any money for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":437.62,"endTime":441.13,"body":"six weeks whilst away from my"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":441.13,"endTime":446.44,"body":"Universal Credit. And I think"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":441.13,"endTime":446.44,"body":"the strength of the service and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":446.44,"endTime":451.36,"body":"the frontline services is that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":446.44,"endTime":451.36,"body":"– not only do we get shocked by"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":451.36,"endTime":457.3,"body":"the numbers – but we also can"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":451.36,"endTime":457.3,"body":"see where the policy problems"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":457.3,"endTime":462.01,"body":"are. We can see the causes of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":457.3,"endTime":462.01,"body":"the creation of the need for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":462.01,"endTime":465.52,"body":"food banks. And a really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":462.01,"endTime":465.52,"body":"important part of our service is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":465.52,"endTime":470.71,"body":"to challenge that policy. And to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":465.52,"endTime":470.71,"body":"point out exactly how those,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":471.01,"endTime":476.05,"body":"those changes in the benefit"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":471.01,"endTime":476.05,"body":"system created abject poverty."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":476.92,"endTime":481.87,"body":"Before, I think it's fair to say"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":476.92,"endTime":481.87,"body":"we probably were in a society"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":481.87,"endTime":485.44,"body":"that, that actually had enough"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":481.87,"endTime":485.44,"body":"provision around it – including"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":485.47,"endTime":489.73,"body":"the benefit system – to have"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":485.47,"endTime":489.73,"body":"that flexibility to give"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":489.73,"endTime":492.55,"body":"emergency payments to people,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":489.73,"endTime":492.55,"body":"discretionary payments to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":492.55,"endTime":495.97,"body":"people. They used to have"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":492.55,"endTime":495.97,"body":"community care grants, and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":495.97,"endTime":499.39,"body":"budgeting loans and things like"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":495.97,"endTime":499.39,"body":"that. They were fairly much"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":499.39,"endTime":503.62,"body":"stripped back. So that, that did"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":499.39,"endTime":503.62,"body":"shock us and you're right – we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":503.62,"endTime":507.1,"body":"did, I think we did get to a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":503.62,"endTime":507.1,"body":"stage where it's like, oh, it's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":507.1,"endTime":510.82,"body":"food bank Friday, the food banks"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":507.1,"endTime":510.82,"body":"open today – we know we're going"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":510.82,"endTime":514.57,"body":"to have a big crowd of people,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":510.82,"endTime":514.57,"body":"how do we manage all those"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":514.57,"endTime":518.59,"body":"people who are coming in? But"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":514.57,"endTime":518.59,"body":"every single time you sit down"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":518.95,"endTime":522.82,"body":"with one person who needs food,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":518.95,"endTime":522.82,"body":"and you see the tears in a big"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":522.82,"endTime":527.77,"body":"blokes eyes – and you see the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":522.82,"endTime":527.77,"body":"fear of a mother – wondering how"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":527.77,"endTime":529.72,"body":"they're going to cook the food"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":527.77,"endTime":529.72,"body":"that we're going to give them"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":529.72,"endTime":533.65,"body":"from the food bank – it keeps"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":529.72,"endTime":533.65,"body":"you grounded – and it keeps you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":533.65,"endTime":538.06,"body":"outraged. And that is really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":533.65,"endTime":538.06,"body":"important in our service."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":538.06,"endTime":541.57,"body":"Because if you're outraged about"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":538.06,"endTime":541.57,"body":"something, the chances are, it's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":541.57,"endTime":545.86,"body":"linked to some sort of policy"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":541.57,"endTime":545.86,"body":"that could be changed – that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":545.86,"endTime":549.31,"body":"could then improve people's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":545.86,"endTime":549.31,"body":"lives. So I think although there"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":549.31,"endTime":554.2,"body":"was a little bit of complacency"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":549.31,"endTime":554.2,"body":"in terms of – this is now how"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":554.2,"endTime":559.21,"body":"society works in recent years, –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":554.2,"endTime":559.21,"body":"and certainly in the last few"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":559.21,"endTime":565.87,"body":"years – we are now not only"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":559.21,"endTime":565.87,"body":"seeing really poor people coming"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":565.87,"endTime":571.21,"body":"into our service – who are not"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":565.87,"endTime":571.21,"body":"really managing – they've got"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":571.21,"endTime":574.27,"body":"really expensive rents, they're"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":571.21,"endTime":574.27,"body":"in really cold accommodation,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":574.27,"endTime":578.53,"body":"it's... they're eating poorly."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":574.27,"endTime":578.53,"body":"What we're now seeing is working"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":578.53,"endTime":581.83,"body":"families coming into us and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":578.53,"endTime":581.83,"body":"saying I need food, I need fuel"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":581.83,"endTime":587.17,"body":"– help. In an extension of that,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":581.83,"endTime":587.17,"body":"we've got people who work in our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":587.17,"endTime":592.6,"body":"organisation who are coming to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":587.17,"endTime":592.6,"body":"us and saying, I need food, I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":592.6,"endTime":598.21,"body":"need electrical help. So it's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":592.6,"endTime":598.21,"body":"thing that we're all living with"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":598.24,"endTime":603.97,"body":"now. So yes – it, it did become"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":598.24,"endTime":603.97,"body":"a bit of a norm. But I think the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":603.97,"endTime":609.31,"body":"changes in the last couple of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":603.97,"endTime":609.31,"body":"years as well – and I don't"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":609.31,"endTime":612.73,"body":"really want to point a finger at"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":609.31,"endTime":612.73,"body":"any particular government –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":612.73,"endTime":615.01,"body":"because we're not an"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":612.73,"endTime":615.01,"body":"organisation that's party"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":615.01,"endTime":619.66,"body":"political in any way – but"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":615.01,"endTime":619.66,"body":"experimental budgets that took"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":619.66,"endTime":627.31,"body":"place in 2022 – absolutely was"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":619.66,"endTime":627.31,"body":"was sort of the last nail in the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":627.31,"endTime":632.59,"body":"coffin for some people. And as"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":627.31,"endTime":632.59,"body":"that happened – at the end of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":632.59,"endTime":636.76,"body":"the summer, and coming into the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":632.59,"endTime":636.76,"body":"autumn and winter months – it's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":636.79,"endTime":640.99,"body":"actually quite terrifying how we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":636.79,"endTime":640.99,"body":"are going to, how we're going to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":640.99,"endTime":646.09,"body":"maintain the service, how we are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":640.99,"endTime":646.09,"body":"going to continue to meet the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":646.09,"endTime":648.7,"body":"needs of the numbers of people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":646.09,"endTime":648.7,"body":"who are coming through to us –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":648.7,"endTime":653.71,"body":"because they have spiked, for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":648.7,"endTime":653.71,"body":"example, by 75%, From last"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":653.71,"endTime":658.48,"body":"August to this August – the need"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":653.71,"endTime":658.48,"body":"is great. The other thing that's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":658.51,"endTime":661.78,"body":"really terrifying – for the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":658.51,"endTime":661.78,"body":"third sector, for the voluntary"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":661.78,"endTime":666.16,"body":"sector – is that we're all"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":661.78,"endTime":666.16,"body":"facing huge funding cuts."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":666.15,"endTime":669.479,"body":"That's quite the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":666.15,"endTime":669.479,"body":"picture of the sort of crisis"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":669.552,"endTime":673.967,"body":"that we're in. I mean, one of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":669.552,"endTime":673.967,"body":"the things I'm reflecting on as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":674.04,"endTime":678.093,"body":"you're speaking, Helen – is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":674.04,"endTime":678.093,"body":"about how poverty has become"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":678.166,"endTime":682.437,"body":"normalised over the last decade."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":678.166,"endTime":682.437,"body":"And one of the things I've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":682.509,"endTime":686.997,"body":"thought about my own work is how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":682.509,"endTime":686.997,"body":"that normalisation of poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":687.069,"endTime":690.906,"body":"and those cuts to the welfare"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":687.069,"endTime":690.906,"body":"state – that we sort of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":690.978,"endTime":694.959,"body":"austerity and that are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":690.978,"endTime":694.959,"body":"continuing – were accompanied by"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":695.032,"endTime":699.447,"body":"this massive explosion – from"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":695.032,"endTime":699.447,"body":"kind of, particularly from sort"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":699.52,"endTime":703.718,"body":"of 2010 to around 2016 – of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":699.52,"endTime":703.718,"body":"poverty stigma. In the form of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":703.791,"endTime":708.279,"body":"things like\" Benefits Street\","},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":703.791,"endTime":708.279,"body":"endless headlines about welfare"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":708.351,"endTime":712.332,"body":"cheats, etc, etc. So it was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":708.351,"endTime":712.332,"body":"rolling news, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":712.405,"endTime":716.386,"body":"about seven years – you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":712.405,"endTime":716.386,"body":"couldn't kind of move for, you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":716.458,"endTime":720.801,"body":"know, the amount of kind of –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":716.458,"endTime":720.801,"body":"and then not in a way that top"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":720.874,"endTime":725.289,"body":"down – I would call it – that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":720.874,"endTime":725.289,"body":"sort of orchestrated, political"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":725.362,"endTime":729.777,"body":"stigma reduction – if you want"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":725.362,"endTime":729.777,"body":"to call it – within the public"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":729.85,"endTime":733.976,"body":"sphere. It seemed to me that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":729.85,"endTime":733.976,"body":"that was part of how poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":734.048,"endTime":738.102,"body":"was... became more hidden at –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":734.048,"endTime":738.102,"body":"the same time that it was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":738.174,"endTime":742.3,"body":"increasing – it almost kind of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":738.174,"endTime":742.3,"body":"distorted but also hid the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":742.373,"endTime":746.716,"body":"experiences of people – partly"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":742.373,"endTime":746.716,"body":"because it, you know, is very"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":746.788,"endTime":751.421,"body":"stigmatising and shameful anyway"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":746.788,"endTime":751.421,"body":"– but it became more so when if"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":751.493,"endTime":755.909,"body":"you were going to be seen as one"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":751.493,"endTime":755.909,"body":"of these benefits cheats. So"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":755.981,"endTime":759.818,"body":"this normalisation that we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":755.981,"endTime":759.818,"body":"talked about where poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":759.89,"endTime":763.51,"body":"becomes a normalise – is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":759.89,"endTime":763.51,"body":"happening in this sort of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":763.582,"endTime":767.925,"body":"context where we've had this"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":763.582,"endTime":767.925,"body":"previous period of this massive"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":767.998,"endTime":772.341,"body":"escalation of benefits stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":767.998,"endTime":772.341,"body":"and poverty stigma. Do you see"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":772.413,"endTime":776.829,"body":"that in the service that both"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":772.413,"endTime":776.829,"body":"that normalisation or that kind"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":776.901,"endTime":779.58,"body":"of, how that stigma impacted people?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":779.0,"endTime":779.93,"body":"Absolutely. You"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":779.0,"endTime":779.93,"body":"know, one day you'd be going to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":779.93,"endTime":781.94,"body":"work and you'd be fine and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":779.93,"endTime":781.94,"body":"dandy, and you could hold your"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":781.94,"endTime":784.55,"body":"head up high – because you were"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":781.94,"endTime":784.55,"body":"a worker, and you were a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":784.58,"endTime":794.24,"body":"striver. And then you could go"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":784.58,"endTime":794.24,"body":"to work and be laid off – and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":794.24,"endTime":798.74,"body":"then the next morning you became"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":794.24,"endTime":798.74,"body":"a scrounger and a shirker. And"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":798.74,"endTime":803.21,"body":"that message was really simple."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":798.74,"endTime":803.21,"body":"It was grounded in bigotry, it"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":803.21,"endTime":808.58,"body":"was grounded in in hatred – for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":803.21,"endTime":808.58,"body":"me, actually – and in a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":808.58,"endTime":813.83,"body":"ridiculous assumption – that we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":808.58,"endTime":813.83,"body":"had an economy that could employ"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":813.83,"endTime":819.62,"body":"everybody at a reasonable rate"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":813.83,"endTime":819.62,"body":"of pay, to enable people not to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":819.62,"endTime":824.18,"body":"have to claim benefits, not to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":819.62,"endTime":824.18,"body":"have to use any help that was"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":824.18,"endTime":829.61,"body":"out there. It was a really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":824.18,"endTime":829.61,"body":"distressing time – because the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":829.61,"endTime":834.14,"body":"most vulnerable in our society"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":829.61,"endTime":834.14,"body":"are some of the most poorest in"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":834.14,"endTime":839.84,"body":"our society. They don't have –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":834.14,"endTime":839.84,"body":"necessarily – the ability to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":839.84,"endTime":843.29,"body":"fight back and they did,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":839.84,"endTime":843.29,"body":"certainly didn't, and still"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":843.29,"endTime":846.53,"body":"don't – in fact – have the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":843.29,"endTime":846.53,"body":"platform to put their stories,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":846.53,"endTime":851.18,"body":"to put the alternatives. And"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":846.53,"endTime":851.18,"body":"even if they do, it's not"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":851.18,"endTime":858.98,"body":"listened to. There's there's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":851.18,"endTime":858.98,"body":"really, really upsetting set of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":858.98,"endTime":864.53,"body":"circumstances that that you know"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":858.98,"endTime":864.53,"body":"– that you can have, I don't"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":864.53,"endTime":868.82,"body":"know – you can have a working"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":864.53,"endTime":868.82,"body":"mom in the, in the building and,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":869.21,"endTime":872.33,"body":"and she can tell you that she's"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":869.21,"endTime":872.33,"body":"no money to feed the kids and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":872.33,"endTime":875.42,"body":"that although yeah, a food"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":872.33,"endTime":875.42,"body":"parcel would be great, she can't"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":875.42,"endTime":880.22,"body":"put the oven on to cook that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":875.42,"endTime":880.22,"body":"food. That story should be"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":880.22,"endTime":884.78,"body":"shouted from the rooftops – just"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":880.22,"endTime":884.78,"body":"that one story. Nevermind, the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":884.78,"endTime":888.56,"body":"fact that we're seeing hundreds"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":884.78,"endTime":888.56,"body":"and hundreds and 1000s of people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":888.56,"endTime":894.62,"body":"in the same situation. And one"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":888.56,"endTime":894.62,"body":"of the things that bothers me is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":894.62,"endTime":899.18,"body":"that people – people don't think"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":894.62,"endTime":899.18,"body":"like we do – they don't think IV"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":899.18,"endTime":902.63,"body":"is stigmatised. I'm being"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":899.18,"endTime":902.63,"body":"excluded, I'm being othered."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":903.44,"endTime":908.18,"body":"They just struggle on day to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":903.44,"endTime":908.18,"body":"day. It's up to us – in services"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":908.18,"endTime":912.98,"body":"like ours – to put the meat on"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":908.18,"endTime":912.98,"body":"the bones, to be really clear"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":912.98,"endTime":916.61,"body":"about the statistics and about"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":912.98,"endTime":916.61,"body":"the impact, and about the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":916.61,"endTime":921.47,"body":"stories that people are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":916.61,"endTime":921.47,"body":"experiencing. And to understand"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":921.47,"endTime":926.63,"body":"too, that if you – if you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":921.47,"endTime":926.63,"body":"medicalized poverty like we do –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":927.59,"endTime":931.01,"body":"it's one of the most upsetting"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":927.59,"endTime":931.01,"body":"things for me at the moment is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":931.01,"endTime":934.22,"body":"that people go to the doctors,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":931.01,"endTime":934.22,"body":"because they're anxious and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":934.22,"endTime":937.46,"body":"they're not sleeping, and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":934.22,"endTime":937.46,"body":"they're upset about things. And"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":937.46,"endTime":939.74,"body":"the reason they're doing that is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":937.46,"endTime":939.74,"body":"because they're in poverty."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":939.89,"endTime":942.8,"body":"They're not ill – they don't"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":939.89,"endTime":942.8,"body":"need to antidepressants – but"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":942.8,"endTime":946.7,"body":"they'll probably get them. They"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":942.8,"endTime":946.7,"body":"just need a better income. They"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":946.7,"endTime":949.94,"body":"need a society that does what it"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":946.7,"endTime":949.94,"body":"says on the tin, which is to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":949.94,"endTime":952.22,"body":"look after the most vulnerable."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":952.0,"endTime":955.21,"body":"I think there's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":952.0,"endTime":955.21,"body":"two things that I want to unpick"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":955.21,"endTime":958.42,"body":"in just thinking about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":955.21,"endTime":958.42,"body":"medicalization that you, of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":958.42,"endTime":962.62,"body":"poverty. And while that might"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":958.42,"endTime":962.62,"body":"mean... in one, you know, I hear"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":962.62,"endTime":966.19,"body":"what you're saying – that you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":962.62,"endTime":966.19,"body":"can't live in poverty, and not"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":966.19,"endTime":971.02,"body":"feel distressed and for that not"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":966.19,"endTime":971.02,"body":"to create anxiety. And I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":971.26,"endTime":974.05,"body":"what you're trying to describe"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":971.26,"endTime":974.05,"body":"there, Helen, is that how that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":974.23,"endTime":977.65,"body":"in a way poverty is become"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":974.23,"endTime":977.65,"body":"individualised. So it's almost"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":977.65,"endTime":980.56,"body":"like \"there's something wrong"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":977.65,"endTime":980.56,"body":"with me\"."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":980.0,"endTime":984.8,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":980.0,"endTime":984.8,"body":"Exactly that. Yeah. And... Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":982.67,"endTime":993.68,"body":"That they've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":982.67,"endTime":993.68,"body":"failed in some way."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":984.83,"endTime":989.27,"body":"people feel a bit rubbish. They"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":984.83,"endTime":989.27,"body":"feel that there must be"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":989.27,"endTime":991.22,"body":"something they're doing that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":989.27,"endTime":991.22,"body":"other people aren't doing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":991.25,"endTime":991.46,"body":"that..."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":993.71,"endTime":996.32,"body":"Yeah, that they"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":993.71,"endTime":996.32,"body":"failed in some way. And I think"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":996.35,"endTime":1001.66,"body":"often the GP is the last port of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":996.35,"endTime":1001.66,"body":"call – its the desperation. I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1001.66,"endTime":1002.2,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1002.23,"endTime":1002.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1003.31,"endTime":1006.07,"body":"When I was a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1003.31,"endTime":1006.07,"body":"kid, when I was a child, I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1006.07,"endTime":1009.52,"body":"always thought – if anything"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1006.07,"endTime":1009.52,"body":"goes wrong, there's these"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1009.52,"endTime":1012.16,"body":"structures in place – there's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1009.52,"endTime":1012.16,"body":"health service, and there's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1012.16,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"doctor surgery, and there's the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1012.16,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"police and the ambulance. And"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1021.4,"body":"what you begin to realise in our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1021.4,"body":"society now is there's a real"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1021.4,"endTime":1027.13,"body":"shortage of those services. That"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1021.4,"endTime":1027.13,"body":"people don't proactively look to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1027.13,"endTime":1032.95,"body":"help people anymore. So the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1027.13,"endTime":1032.95,"body":"journeys – as people who try and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1032.95,"endTime":1038.92,"body":"get help, or who try and improve"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1032.95,"endTime":1038.92,"body":"their own lives – is really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1038.92,"endTime":1042.25,"body":"difficult and unsupported. So"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1038.92,"endTime":1042.25,"body":"there's a lot of... there's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1042.25,"endTime":1046.69,"body":"lack of knowledge out there"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1042.25,"endTime":1046.69,"body":"about rights and obligations and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1046.69,"endTime":1051.85,"body":"justice – and access to services"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1046.69,"endTime":1051.85,"body":"that should be available for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1051.85,"endTime":1052.48,"body":"everybody."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1052.54,"endTime":1056.26,"body":"Yeah. And poverty,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1052.54,"endTime":1056.26,"body":"poverty is disabling, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1056.68,"endTime":1060.25,"body":"I mean, it literally is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1056.68,"endTime":1060.25,"body":"disabling and it makes it does"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1060.25,"endTime":1064.63,"body":"make people physically ill as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1060.25,"endTime":1064.63,"body":"well as psychologically ill. But"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1064.63,"endTime":1070.24,"body":"it's, you know, disabled people"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1064.63,"endTime":1070.24,"body":"are incre... one of the most"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1070.24,"endTime":1074.53,"body":"impacted groups by poverty at"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1070.24,"endTime":1074.53,"body":"the moment – I think a third of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1074.53,"endTime":1079.09,"body":"all people living in poverty are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1074.53,"endTime":1079.09,"body":"disabled. I mean, 7 million"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1079.09,"endTime":1082.99,"body":"people are on a waiting list for"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1079.09,"endTime":1082.99,"body":"NHS Care at the moment. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1082.99,"endTime":1085.72,"body":"they'll be people becoming"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1082.99,"endTime":1085.72,"body":"disabled, if they're not"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1085.72,"endTime":1086.41,"body":"already."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1090.68,"body":"It's exactly"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1090.68,"body":"that. It's 50 year olds leaving"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1095.66,"body":"the the jobs market. There's got"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1095.66,"body":"to be a good number of those who"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1095.66,"endTime":1100.07,"body":"are either suffering from long"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1095.66,"endTime":1100.07,"body":"covid or waiting for waiting"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1100.07,"endTime":1105.53,"body":"long term for health conditions"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1100.07,"endTime":1105.53,"body":"to be treated. And as they wait,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1107.81,"body":"those conditions get worse and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1107.81,"body":"worse and worse. And so you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1107.81,"endTime":1111.14,"body":"create a workforce who can no"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1107.81,"endTime":1111.14,"body":"longer work."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1109.91,"endTime":1113.204,"body":"And it's just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1109.91,"endTime":1113.204,"body":"worth noting, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1111.0,"endTime":1119.91,"body":"I think aswell,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1111.0,"endTime":1119.91,"body":"I think what's worrying me quite"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1113.285,"endTime":1118.186,"body":"evidence that came out in 2022"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1113.285,"endTime":1118.186,"body":"that shows that austerity cuts"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1118.267,"endTime":1123.329,"body":"directly contributed to 330,000"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1118.267,"endTime":1123.329,"body":"excess deaths in the UK between"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1123.41,"endTime":1128.392,"body":"2012 and 2019. So austerity is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1123.41,"endTime":1128.392,"body":"killing people slowly – in some"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1127.32,"endTime":1183.33,"body":"a lot at the moment is the media"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1127.32,"endTime":1183.33,"body":"message about austerity and the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1128.472,"endTime":1133.294,"body":"cases faster in others – but"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1128.472,"endTime":1133.294,"body":"that's more people than died of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1133.374,"endTime":1138.035,"body":"Covid. So I can only imagine"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1133.374,"endTime":1138.035,"body":"what it's like for you on the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1138.115,"endTime":1143.178,"body":"front line, seeing that people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1138.115,"endTime":1143.178,"body":"in need coming in. And I suppose"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1143.258,"endTime":1148.24,"body":"for me – poverty is an issue of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1143.258,"endTime":1148.24,"body":"economic injustice, Helen. And"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1148.321,"endTime":1153.062,"body":"it's like, how much can you,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1148.321,"endTime":1153.062,"body":"can you – It must be so hard"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1153.142,"endTime":1158.044,"body":"for you – because there's so"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1153.142,"endTime":1158.044,"body":"little that you can do except do"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1158.125,"endTime":1162.544,"body":"temporary fixes in terms of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1158.125,"endTime":1162.544,"body":"referring someone to a food"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1162.625,"endTime":1167.285,"body":"bank, referring somebody for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1162.625,"endTime":1167.285,"body":"housing support, etc? Because"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1167.366,"endTime":1172.187,"body":"it's a bigger... this issue of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1167.366,"endTime":1172.187,"body":"economic justice and growing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1172.268,"endTime":1174.92,"body":"inequalities – it's so difficult."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1183.33,"endTime":1185.82,"body":"media message about the fuel"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1183.33,"endTime":1185.82,"body":"crisis and all that sort of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1185.82,"endTime":1190.02,"body":"thing. We know, don't we – that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1185.82,"endTime":1190.02,"body":"there's a set of individuals in"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1190.02,"endTime":1194.58,"body":"the community, maybe old people,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1190.02,"endTime":1194.58,"body":"older people, maybe quite"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1194.58,"endTime":1197.7,"body":"vulnerable people, maybe people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1194.58,"endTime":1197.7,"body":"with learning difficulties – who"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1197.7,"endTime":1202.02,"body":"was scared to death to put the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1197.7,"endTime":1202.02,"body":"heating on now. They could"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1202.02,"endTime":1205.59,"body":"probably afford it, but they're"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1202.02,"endTime":1205.59,"body":"frightened to do it. So there's,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1206.61,"endTime":1209.52,"body":"there are a number of really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1206.61,"endTime":1209.52,"body":"vulnerable people in our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1209.52,"endTime":1213.96,"body":"community who are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1209.52,"endTime":1213.96,"body":"self-regulating their heat, and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1213.96,"endTime":1217.02,"body":"who were not eating properly –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1213.96,"endTime":1217.02,"body":"because they feel they've got to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1217.02,"endTime":1219.51,"body":"save up for some time later on"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1217.02,"endTime":1219.51,"body":"down the line,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1219.0,"endTime":1223.17,"body":"And because of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1219.0,"endTime":1223.17,"body":"uncertainty that we all have"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1223.17,"endTime":1228.6,"body":"about. No one's got any idea"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1223.17,"endTime":1228.6,"body":"what's coming next. And in a way"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1228.6,"endTime":1231.48,"body":"that uncertainty is very like"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1228.6,"endTime":1231.48,"body":"the uncertainty of poverty more"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1231.48,"endTime":1232.53,"body":"generally, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1236.02,"body":"It is, it is."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1236.02,"body":"It makes you pullback, it makes"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1236.02,"endTime":1239.17,"body":"you put another blanket on, put"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1236.02,"endTime":1239.17,"body":"another jumper on – which is you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1239.17,"endTime":1241.96,"body":"know, it's all great. But for"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1239.17,"endTime":1241.96,"body":"elderly people and people who"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1241.96,"endTime":1245.86,"body":"are disabled – who was stuck at"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1241.96,"endTime":1245.86,"body":"home all day – that's not great."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1245.92,"endTime":1248.77,"body":"That causes pneumonia, and it"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1245.92,"endTime":1248.77,"body":"causes all sorts of other"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1248.77,"endTime":1252.22,"body":"problems. That's one worry I've"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1248.77,"endTime":1252.22,"body":"got at the moment. The other"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1252.22,"endTime":1255.79,"body":"worry is absolutely, Imogen –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1252.22,"endTime":1255.79,"body":"that there's a number of clients"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1255.79,"endTime":1259.93,"body":"coming to us who – we can write"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1255.79,"endTime":1259.93,"body":"off all the debts, that's not a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1259.93,"endTime":1263.5,"body":"problem – but what we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1259.93,"endTime":1263.5,"body":"now is when we're writing off"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1263.5,"endTime":1266.35,"body":"people's debts – this is just"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1263.5,"endTime":1266.35,"body":"one example of the work we do,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1266.35,"endTime":1268.99,"body":"which is the complex debt work –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1266.35,"endTime":1268.99,"body":"when we're writing off the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1268.99,"endTime":1272.26,"body":"debts, and we're doing a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1268.99,"endTime":1272.26,"body":"financial statement. And we're"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1272.26,"endTime":1275.71,"body":"trying to give the client a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1272.26,"endTime":1275.71,"body":"budget of what now they can use"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1275.71,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"every week. So we've cleared the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1275.71,"endTime":1277.78,"body":"debts – there's no further"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1281.11,"body":"contractual payments, their"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1277.78,"endTime":1281.11,"body":"income has gone up – but it"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1281.11,"endTime":1284.86,"body":"still hasn't gone up to the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1281.11,"endTime":1284.86,"body":"extent that it can meet the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1284.86,"endTime":1289.69,"body":"essentials. So we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1284.86,"endTime":1289.69,"body":"deficit budgets all the time"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1289.69,"endTime":1293.35,"body":"now. And that can be in people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1289.69,"endTime":1293.35,"body":"with benefits, or it can be"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1293.35,"endTime":1296.92,"body":"people at work. Now if you've"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1293.35,"endTime":1296.92,"body":"got if you've got a deficit"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.52,"body":"budget – and you've got to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1296.92,"endTime":1300.52,"body":"choose between whether you feed"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1300.52,"endTime":1304.75,"body":"your kids, or whether you put"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1300.52,"endTime":1304.75,"body":"the heating on for your disabled"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1304.78,"endTime":1307.6,"body":"auntie – it's a hell of a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1304.78,"endTime":1307.6,"body":"choice."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1308.44,"endTime":1311.47,"body":"One thing that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1308.44,"endTime":1311.47,"body":"really strikes me about poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1311.5,"endTime":1314.32,"body":"and, and – what you're talking"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1311.5,"endTime":1314.32,"body":"about is also including"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1314.32,"endTime":1318.13,"body":"destitution, where people didn't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1314.32,"endTime":1318.13,"body":"come just can't, regularly can't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1318.13,"endTime":1322.81,"body":"meet their basic needs – is how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1318.13,"endTime":1322.81,"body":"it encloses and shrinks people's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1322.81,"endTime":1327.85,"body":"lives. So you know, and we we've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1322.81,"endTime":1327.85,"body":"got that's been compounded by"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1327.85,"endTime":1331.6,"body":"the public transport fiasco –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1327.85,"endTime":1331.6,"body":"that is particularly enacting in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1331.6,"endTime":1335.68,"body":"the north at the moment. But you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1331.6,"endTime":1335.68,"body":"know, that you don't go out –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1335.68,"endTime":1338.26,"body":"you can't afford to go out you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1335.68,"endTime":1338.26,"body":"can't afford to go to your"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1338.26,"endTime":1339.4,"body":"friend's party."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1339.0,"endTime":1341.46,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1339.0,"endTime":1341.46,"body":"people's well-being."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1341.46,"endTime":1343.5,"body":"That is shrinking,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1341.46,"endTime":1343.5,"body":"shrinking, shrinking people's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1343.5,"endTime":1349.59,"body":"lives. That seems to me that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1343.5,"endTime":1349.59,"body":"that's, marks a real, you know,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1349.59,"endTime":1352.98,"body":"the end – almost – of that kind"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1349.59,"endTime":1352.98,"body":"of more utopian welfare state"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1352.98,"endTime":1358.77,"body":"ideal. That idea that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1352.98,"endTime":1358.77,"body":"everybody could be aspirational,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1358.77,"endTime":1361.68,"body":"that narrative however"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1358.77,"endTime":1361.68,"body":"problematic it is – but idea of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1361.68,"endTime":1366.66,"body":"social mobility, that idea of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1361.68,"endTime":1366.66,"body":"everybody having greater or at"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1366.66,"endTime":1373.08,"body":"least greater opportunities –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1366.66,"endTime":1373.08,"body":"and you feel like this increase"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1373.08,"endTime":1376.44,"body":"in profits just shrinking,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1373.08,"endTime":1376.44,"body":"shrinking, shrinking down."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1377.5,"endTime":1379.9,"body":"And not only"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1377.5,"endTime":1379.9,"body":"that, it's become acceptable."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1380.23,"endTime":1384.34,"body":"We've reached a point and a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1380.23,"endTime":1384.34,"body":"narrative in discourse, I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1384.34,"endTime":1388.54,"body":"suppose that – absolutely people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1384.34,"endTime":1388.54,"body":"should be living in in dire"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1388.54,"endTime":1392.32,"body":"circumstances, if they're not"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1388.54,"endTime":1392.32,"body":"working. There's no, there's no"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1392.32,"endTime":1395.68,"body":"understanding that as human"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1392.32,"endTime":1395.68,"body":"beings, we need social contact."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1395.98,"endTime":1399.58,"body":"We need to enjoy our lives. We"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1395.98,"endTime":1399.58,"body":"need to laugh, we need to share"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1400.15,"endTime":1404.92,"body":"and converse with with people."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1400.15,"endTime":1404.92,"body":"And that's, that's really"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1404.92,"endTime":1407.71,"body":"upsetting, isn't it? The other"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1404.92,"endTime":1407.71,"body":"morning, I woke up and it was"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1407.71,"endTime":1411.19,"body":"freezing here. Then there was"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1407.71,"endTime":1411.19,"body":"ice on the roofs and ice on the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1411.19,"endTime":1414.49,"body":"car. And I looked out it's a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1411.19,"endTime":1414.49,"body":"beautiful sunny day. The first"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1414.49,"endTime":1419.35,"body":"thing I thought of was that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1414.49,"endTime":1419.35,"body":"young lads or young lass who was"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1419.35,"endTime":1424.33,"body":"sat in a bedsit – on 70 odd"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1419.35,"endTime":1424.33,"body":"pounds, 80 pounds a week –who"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1424.36,"endTime":1429.43,"body":"literally had no life. It's not"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1424.36,"endTime":1429.43,"body":"just they didn't have heating,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1429.58,"endTime":1433.48,"body":"they didn't have food, but they"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1429.58,"endTime":1433.48,"body":"had absolutely no way to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1433.48,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"socialise with the outside"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1433.48,"endTime":1438.52,"body":"world. Why do we say tha only"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1438.52,"endTime":1443.23,"body":"people who have enough money are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1438.52,"endTime":1443.23,"body":"entitled to have social life"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1443.26,"endTime":1447.52,"body":"effectively, and entitled to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1443.26,"endTime":1447.52,"body":"have relationships and build"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1447.52,"endTime":1448.39,"body":"friendships."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1449.17,"endTime":1452.44,"body":"Poverty, just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1449.17,"endTime":1452.44,"body":"makes me think how wasteful"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1452.44,"endTime":1457.33,"body":"poverty is – as a society, it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1452.44,"endTime":1457.33,"body":"creates wasted lives, but it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1457.33,"endTime":1461.92,"body":"also, it's such a waste of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1457.33,"endTime":1461.92,"body":"human potential, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1461.92,"endTime":1462.16,"body":"It really is..."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1462.19,"endTime":1467.2,"body":"That we, what"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1462.19,"endTime":1467.2,"body":"we're doing to our, this this"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1467.2,"endTime":1468.31,"body":"sort of, nation at the moment."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1468.0,"endTime":1471.36,"body":"And we know –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1468.0,"endTime":1471.36,"body":"we know from our from our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1471.36,"endTime":1476.49,"body":"experience in the Poverty Truth"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1471.36,"endTime":1476.49,"body":"Commission – that people in our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1476.49,"endTime":1481.29,"body":"community have got so much to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1476.49,"endTime":1481.29,"body":"offer, who can guide us – guide"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1481.29,"endTime":1486.21,"body":"me certainly – in how we run our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1481.29,"endTime":1486.21,"body":"service. We need that – we need"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1486.21,"endTime":1489.3,"body":"to hear that – we need to hear"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1486.21,"endTime":1489.3,"body":"what they're doing. You know,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1489.3,"endTime":1492.75,"body":"from I don't know, from tiny"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1489.3,"endTime":1492.75,"body":"little things like – how do you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1492.75,"endTime":1495.78,"body":"make your money last? What are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1492.75,"endTime":1495.78,"body":"you doing? What skills have you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1495.78,"endTime":1499.29,"body":"got that do make that money last"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1495.78,"endTime":1499.29,"body":"if you're managing to do that?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1499.65,"endTime":1504.99,"body":"But all also to say, Where are"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1499.65,"endTime":1504.99,"body":"the services going wrong? What"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1504.99,"endTime":1511.08,"body":"aren't we doing that would help"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1504.99,"endTime":1511.08,"body":"to improve your life? And one,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1511.14,"endTime":1514.8,"body":"one of the things that I feel"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1511.14,"endTime":1514.8,"body":"really strongly about – and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1514.8,"endTime":1519.0,"body":"we're still not quite there yet"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1514.8,"endTime":1519.0,"body":"– is that partnership work is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1519.0,"endTime":1525.57,"body":"the wraparound services for our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1519.0,"endTime":1525.57,"body":"communities. We know now, we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1525.57,"endTime":1529.98,"body":"sort of know now. that we can"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1525.57,"endTime":1529.98,"body":"forget hoping that the welfare"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1532.41,"body":"system is going to get more"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1532.41,"body":"generous, we're probably"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1532.41,"endTime":1535.71,"body":"actually going to see an"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1532.41,"endTime":1535.71,"body":"effective cut in Universal"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1535.71,"endTime":1538.98,"body":"Credit – because it's unlikely"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1535.71,"endTime":1538.98,"body":"to be raised by the cost of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1538.98,"endTime":1543.3,"body":"living. So you've already got a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1538.98,"endTime":1543.3,"body":"set of circumstances where I'm"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1543.3,"endTime":1547.35,"body":"saying people have deficit"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1543.3,"endTime":1547.35,"body":"budgets – and come April is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1547.35,"endTime":1550.41,"body":"probably going to get worse –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1547.35,"endTime":1550.41,"body":"because all the hardship help"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1550.41,"endTime":1554.16,"body":"that's been put into place. All"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1550.41,"endTime":1554.16,"body":"that drops off a cliff, at the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1554.16,"endTime":1557.67,"body":"end of March. We're not going to"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1554.16,"endTime":1557.67,"body":"see people's local housing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1557.67,"endTime":1560.67,"body":"allowance increased. And we're"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1557.67,"endTime":1560.67,"body":"going to see landlords putting"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1560.67,"endTime":1565.32,"body":"up the rent. And it for me,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1560.67,"endTime":1565.32,"body":"those voices of lived experience"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1565.35,"endTime":1569.37,"body":"need to be sat around a table"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1565.35,"endTime":1569.37,"body":"with the policymakers, with the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1569.37,"endTime":1571.89,"body":"Council's, with the County"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1569.37,"endTime":1571.89,"body":"Council's, with the government."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1572.13,"endTime":1576.75,"body":"And with all us – all of us who"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1572.13,"endTime":1576.75,"body":"run services. We know we haven't"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1576.75,"endTime":1581.04,"body":"got the answers to everything."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1576.75,"endTime":1581.04,"body":"But if we work together and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1581.04,"endTime":1584.88,"body":"support each other and support"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1581.04,"endTime":1584.88,"body":"our communities and do things"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1584.88,"endTime":1588.27,"body":"like break bread together. Have"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1584.88,"endTime":1588.27,"body":"people with lived experience on"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1588.27,"endTime":1591.51,"body":"our trustee boards, have people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1588.27,"endTime":1591.51,"body":"with lived experience running"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1591.51,"endTime":1599.22,"body":"our services – then that takes"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1591.51,"endTime":1599.22,"body":"us some, some way towards giving"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1599.22,"endTime":1603.24,"body":"power to people who don't have a"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1599.22,"endTime":1603.24,"body":"voice. That's really important"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1603.24,"endTime":1603.78,"body":"for me."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1604.77,"endTime":1608.52,"body":"Well, it's about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1604.77,"endTime":1608.52,"body":"re - humanising services. Even"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1608.52,"endTime":1612.09,"body":"if those services are stripped"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1608.52,"endTime":1612.09,"body":"to the bone and extremely"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1612.12,"endTime":1615.06,"body":"difficult to run at the moment –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1612.12,"endTime":1615.06,"body":"there is something about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1618.21,"body":"allowing live, people who've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1618.21,"body":"lived experience to be heard as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1623.4,"body":"experts – in a way that I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1618.21,"endTime":1623.4,"body":"then can re-humanise the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1623.4,"endTime":1626.82,"body":"services themselves. And that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1623.4,"endTime":1626.82,"body":"reminds me, Helen, that I know"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1627.18,"endTime":1630.54,"body":"you're doing something around,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1627.18,"endTime":1630.54,"body":"aren't you – how you're going to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1630.54,"endTime":1634.38,"body":"run your office? Is that right?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1630.54,"endTime":1634.38,"body":"To redesign it?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1634.41,"endTime":1637.38,"body":"Yeah, so we've"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1634.41,"endTime":1637.38,"body":",we want to redesign our offices"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1637.38,"endTime":1642.06,"body":"so they're a space – a community"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1637.38,"endTime":1642.06,"body":"space. You'll all recognise the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1642.06,"endTime":1645.81,"body":"description of Citizens Advice"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1642.06,"endTime":1645.81,"body":"as all a bit behind closed doors"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1645.81,"endTime":1648.12,"body":"– you have to sit in a waiting"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1645.81,"endTime":1648.12,"body":"room and yet to sit for ages and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1648.12,"endTime":1650.64,"body":"ages and ages. And then you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1648.12,"endTime":1650.64,"body":"might get to see somebody or you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1654.09,"body":"might not get to see somebody. I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1654.09,"body":"want to put an end to that. I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1654.09,"endTime":1657.75,"body":"want to have services where"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1654.09,"endTime":1657.75,"body":"people feel they own our"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1657.75,"endTime":1660.75,"body":"service, – where they can come"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1657.75,"endTime":1660.75,"body":"in, and they can use the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1660.75,"endTime":1664.29,"body":"computer and they can find their"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1660.75,"endTime":1664.29,"body":"own information, we don't have"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1664.29,"endTime":1666.6,"body":"to do that. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1664.29,"endTime":1666.6,"body":"people out there who are very"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1666.6,"endTime":1669.42,"body":"capable of finding their own"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1666.6,"endTime":1669.42,"body":"advice – providing we can"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1669.42,"endTime":1672.96,"body":"provide the resources to do"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1669.42,"endTime":1672.96,"body":"that. That's one of the things"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1672.96,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"we want to do. But one of the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1672.96,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"other things that is, that is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1677.88,"endTime":1681.84,"body":"really important to me is –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1677.88,"endTime":1681.84,"body":"every time a client walks out of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1681.84,"endTime":1686.76,"body":"our office, they have –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1681.84,"endTime":1686.76,"body":"hopefully a letter in the hand"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1686.88,"endTime":1691.47,"body":"that details all the advice"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1686.88,"endTime":1691.47,"body":"we've given. But as an advisor –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1691.5,"endTime":1694.68,"body":"it takes a hell of a long time"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1691.5,"endTime":1694.68,"body":"to learn how to be an advisor –"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1694.86,"endTime":1699.21,"body":"and to learn how to negotiate"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1694.86,"endTime":1699.21,"body":"systems. So one of the things"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1699.21,"endTime":1702.42,"body":"that I want to do – and we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1699.21,"endTime":1702.42,"body":"started to do now – is to call"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1702.42,"endTime":1706.44,"body":"clients back. So after the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1702.42,"endTime":1706.44,"body":"advice – about six weeks after"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1706.44,"endTime":1708.51,"body":"they've had the advice – we give"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1706.44,"endTime":1708.51,"body":"them a call back – and we call"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1708.51,"endTime":1712.74,"body":"it a welfare callback. And we"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1708.51,"endTime":1712.74,"body":"compare a set of questions that"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1712.74,"endTime":1716.22,"body":"we asked at the outset of the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1712.74,"endTime":1716.22,"body":"advice session. And then we ask"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1716.22,"endTime":1720.0,"body":"them the same questions again."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1716.22,"endTime":1720.0,"body":"And it's all around – did you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1720.0,"endTime":1724.14,"body":"understand our advice? Could you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1720.0,"endTime":1724.14,"body":"follow it? Has it worked? But"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1724.14,"endTime":1726.75,"body":"then it's all about – are you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1724.14,"endTime":1726.75,"body":"sleeping better? Are you"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1726.75,"endTime":1730.5,"body":"feeling, how are you feeling"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1726.75,"endTime":1730.5,"body":"now, what that does is tell"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1730.5,"endTime":1733.74,"body":"people that we're an"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1730.5,"endTime":1733.74,"body":"organisation that actually does"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1733.74,"endTime":1739.32,"body":"care. But what it's also done is"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1733.74,"endTime":1739.32,"body":"given us the evidence to show"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1739.32,"endTime":1742.17,"body":"that good advice does actually"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1739.32,"endTime":1742.17,"body":"improve people's health and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1742.17,"endTime":1742.71,"body":"well-being."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1742.95,"endTime":1745.77,"body":"I really like that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1742.95,"endTime":1745.77,"body":"idea that in redesigning your"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1745.77,"endTime":1749.55,"body":"offices in this open plan way"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1745.77,"endTime":1749.55,"body":"and providing the resources"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1749.58,"endTime":1753.66,"body":"people need – rather than"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1749.58,"endTime":1753.66,"body":"assuming they need to be told by"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1753.66,"endTime":1758.67,"body":"somebody X or Y – I like, I like"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1753.66,"endTime":1758.67,"body":"the idea that that kind of also,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1758.67,"endTime":1761.58,"body":"sort of, take some of those"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1758.67,"endTime":1761.58,"body":"principles that we both"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1761.58,"endTime":1765.51,"body":"experienced, Helen – in Poverty"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1761.58,"endTime":1765.51,"body":"Truth – of trying to undo like"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1765.51,"endTime":1769.68,"body":"the the you and them. You know,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1765.51,"endTime":1769.68,"body":"and that which is a kind of anti"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1769.68,"endTime":1771.54,"body":"stigma practice effectively,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1769.68,"endTime":1771.54,"body":"isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1771.54,"endTime":1773.01,"body":"It is, yeah."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1773.01,"endTime":1775.8,"body":"This could be any"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1773.01,"endTime":1775.8,"body":"of us that's needing help."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1775.83,"endTime":1777.99,"body":"Its saying..."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1775.83,"endTime":1777.99,"body":"and one of the things I keep"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1777.99,"endTime":1781.08,"body":"reminding us all of – including"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1777.99,"endTime":1781.08,"body":"our teams – is we are all"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1781.08,"endTime":1784.92,"body":"members of that community. We"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1781.08,"endTime":1784.92,"body":"are all members. So if I go into"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1784.92,"endTime":1788.28,"body":"a Citizens Advice service and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1784.92,"endTime":1788.28,"body":"need some information – and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1788.28,"endTime":1791.28,"body":"they've got a computer there and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1788.28,"endTime":1791.28,"body":"that's brilliant –then I can"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1791.28,"endTime":1794.82,"body":"have a go. But if I don't, if I"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1791.28,"endTime":1794.82,"body":"don't understand it, I can ask"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1794.82,"endTime":1798.33,"body":"the community member – who's one"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1794.82,"endTime":1798.33,"body":"of our volunteers – to sit next"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1798.33,"endTime":1801.51,"body":"to me, and help me make sense"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1798.33,"endTime":1801.51,"body":"sense of it. There's nothing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1801.51,"endTime":1805.41,"body":"better than that. Because that,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1801.51,"endTime":1805.41,"body":"that creates relationships, it"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1805.41,"endTime":1810.72,"body":"creates friendships. And one of"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1805.41,"endTime":1810.72,"body":"the joys about that is seeing"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1810.72,"endTime":1814.14,"body":"people just start to chat and"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1810.72,"endTime":1814.14,"body":"just start to talk to the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1814.14,"endTime":1819.66,"body":"advisor and start to get"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1814.14,"endTime":1819.66,"body":"involved with, with realising"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1819.66,"endTime":1823.68,"body":"that you have got rights. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1819.66,"endTime":1823.68,"body":"you've got obligations – but"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1823.68,"endTime":1827.79,"body":"there are rights that you have"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1823.68,"endTime":1827.79,"body":"and it's up to, it's up to all"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1827.79,"endTime":1832.41,"body":"of us to try and help people"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1827.79,"endTime":1832.41,"body":"make the best of what they've"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1832.41,"endTime":1836.25,"body":"got. And at the same time as"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":1832.41,"endTime":1836.25,"body":"lobbying for what they need."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1841.59,"endTime":1844.53,"body":"Helen Greatorex,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1841.59,"endTime":1844.53,"body":"Chief Officer of Citizens Advice"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1844.53,"endTime":1849.06,"body":"North Lancashire. You know, it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1844.53,"endTime":1849.06,"body":"was both inspiring and upsetting"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1849.06,"endTime":1852.63,"body":"to hear from Helen, about how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1849.06,"endTime":1852.63,"body":"the poverty crisis affecting"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1852.66,"endTime":1856.95,"body":"both those in poverty – but also"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1852.66,"endTime":1856.95,"body":"welfare workers and volunteers –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1856.95,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"and how those groups aren't even"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1856.95,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"mutually exclusive. As we heard,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1862.11,"endTime":1865.35,"body":"you know, Helens account of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1862.11,"endTime":1865.35,"body":"staff and volunteers themselves"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1865.35,"endTime":1872.82,"body":"falling into poverty. One"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1865.35,"endTime":1872.82,"body":"takeaway from today was hearing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1872.82,"endTime":1877.41,"body":"about the cumulative impact of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1872.82,"endTime":1877.41,"body":"living in a society where"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1877.41,"endTime":1882.42,"body":"welfare is being so relentlessly"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1877.41,"endTime":1882.42,"body":"stigmatised – how poverty has"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1882.42,"endTime":1887.31,"body":"become normalised as a result of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1882.42,"endTime":1887.31,"body":"this. The cultivation of stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1887.31,"endTime":1891.18,"body":"has always played a huge role in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1887.31,"endTime":1891.18,"body":"the rationing of welfare – by"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1891.18,"endTime":1894.99,"body":"which I mean it's been used to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1891.18,"endTime":1894.99,"body":"win consent for a tax on social"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1894.99,"endTime":1899.73,"body":"provision, for branding, some is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1894.99,"endTime":1899.73,"body":"more deserving than others. One"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1899.73,"endTime":1904.68,"body":"takeaway from today was hearing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1899.73,"endTime":1904.68,"body":"about the cumulative impact of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1904.68,"endTime":1908.67,"body":"living in a society where"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1904.68,"endTime":1908.67,"body":"welfare has been so relentlessly"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1908.67,"endTime":1913.62,"body":"stigmatised. How poverty has"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1908.67,"endTime":1913.62,"body":"become normalised as a result."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1914.46,"endTime":1918.15,"body":"Now we're living in this period"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1914.46,"endTime":1918.15,"body":"of deep recession, stagnating"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1918.15,"endTime":1921.87,"body":"wages and insecure work – a time"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1918.15,"endTime":1921.87,"body":"when benefits have been"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1921.87,"endTime":1926.58,"body":"diminishing, and poverty is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1921.87,"endTime":1926.58,"body":"rising – including among groups"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1926.58,"endTime":1930.75,"body":"once seen as deserving such as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1926.58,"endTime":1930.75,"body":"children, disabled people."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1931.35,"endTime":1935.52,"body":"Another takeaway is that to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1931.35,"endTime":1935.52,"body":"re-humanise our social and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1935.52,"endTime":1940.95,"body":"welfare systems, we have to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1935.52,"endTime":1940.95,"body":"destigmatise welfare. That means"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1940.95,"endTime":1944.97,"body":"work in solidarity with those"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1940.95,"endTime":1944.97,"body":"with real lived experience of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1944.97,"endTime":1948.78,"body":"poverty. Having conversations"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1944.97,"endTime":1948.78,"body":"about the kind of social"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1948.78,"endTime":1952.71,"body":"movements we urgently need to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1948.78,"endTime":1952.71,"body":"help rebuild the welfare state"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1952.95,"endTime":1957.81,"body":"and tackle injustice. And after"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1952.95,"endTime":1957.81,"body":"today's conversation, I'm also"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1957.81,"endTime":1962.46,"body":"reminded of how we also need to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1957.81,"endTime":1962.46,"body":"consider today's poverty crisis"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1962.46,"endTime":1966.0,"body":"and the dismantling of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1962.46,"endTime":1966.0,"body":"welfare state in the context of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1966.0,"endTime":1969.6,"body":"Britain's deeper history –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1966.0,"endTime":1969.6,"body":"including the aftermath of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1969.6,"endTime":1975.93,"body":"empire wellbores post industrial"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1969.6,"endTime":1975.93,"body":"decline. We should remember that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1975.93,"endTime":1980.04,"body":"modern Britain was forged"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1975.93,"endTime":1980.04,"body":"through colonialism and post"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1980.04,"endTime":1983.82,"body":"colonial struggle and shaped by"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1980.04,"endTime":1983.82,"body":"histories of migration. The"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1983.82,"endTime":1988.23,"body":"legacies of these histories are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1983.82,"endTime":1988.23,"body":"so visible in the uneven"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1988.23,"endTime":1992.4,"body":"geographies of poverty in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1988.23,"endTime":1992.4,"body":"Britain today – both in terms of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1992.4,"endTime":1996.84,"body":"the disproportionate impact of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1992.4,"endTime":1996.84,"body":"poverty in black and ethnic"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1996.84,"endTime":2001.07,"body":"minority communities and in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1996.84,"endTime":2001.07,"body":"clustering of poverty in areas"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2001.07,"endTime":2004.22,"body":"like Northern England and the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2001.07,"endTime":2004.22,"body":"Midlands – areas that suffered"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2004.22,"endTime":2008.27,"body":"most from post industrial"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2004.22,"endTime":2008.27,"body":"decline, and from subsequent"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2008.27,"endTime":2010.04,"body":"cuts and under investment."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2012.46,"endTime":2015.7,"body":"Next time, I'll be talking with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2012.46,"endTime":2015.7,"body":"two community activists about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2015.7,"endTime":2019.93,"body":"Black Lives Matter, the legacies"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2015.7,"endTime":2019.93,"body":"of slavery and colonialism, and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2019.93,"endTime":2023.74,"body":"how we can use education to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2019.93,"endTime":2023.74,"body":"confront our past and change our"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2023.74,"endTime":2027.79,"body":"future. You can read more in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2023.74,"endTime":2027.79,"body":"episode notes for this podcast."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2027.94,"endTime":2031.36,"body":"Just scroll down in the app"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2027.94,"endTime":2031.36,"body":"you're using to hear this and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2031.36,"endTime":2037.45,"body":"also on the podcast page at the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2031.36,"endTime":2037.45,"body":"sociologicalreview.org. And the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2040.6,"body":"power of stigma affects us all"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2037.45,"endTime":2040.6,"body":"so please share the stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2040.6,"endTime":2044.05,"body":"conversations far and wide. You"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2040.6,"endTime":2044.05,"body":"never know who'll end up"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2044.05,"endTime":2048.61,"body":"listening. My producer was Alice"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2044.05,"endTime":2048.61,"body":"Bloch. Our sound engineer was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2051.22,"body":"Dave Crackles. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":2048.61,"endTime":2051.22,"body":"listening."}]}