{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":5.01,"endTime":7.56,"body":"Welcome back to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":5.01,"endTime":7.56,"body":"the Stigma Conversations with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":7.56,"endTime":12.54,"body":"me, Imogen Tyler. If you're new"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":7.56,"endTime":12.54,"body":"here, you might ask, what's new"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":12.54,"endTime":16.23,"body":"to say about stigma? And if"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":12.54,"endTime":16.23,"body":"you're a seasoned listener, well"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":16.23,"endTime":19.86,"body":"– hopefully you know my answer"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":16.23,"endTime":19.86,"body":"by now. But I'll say it again"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":19.86,"endTime":25.5,"body":"because it matters. I know today"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":19.86,"endTime":25.5,"body":"we're seeing all sorts of taboo"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":25.5,"endTime":29.22,"body":"busting conversations going on"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":25.5,"endTime":29.22,"body":"about topics such as stigma and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":29.22,"endTime":33.66,"body":"mental health. This is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":29.22,"endTime":33.66,"body":"undeniably great. Talking about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":33.66,"endTime":37.05,"body":"how stigma makes us feel isn't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":33.66,"endTime":37.05,"body":"just essential – it can be"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":37.05,"endTime":41.22,"body":"lifesaving. It pulls us away"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":37.05,"endTime":41.22,"body":"from the dehumanisation, the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":41.22,"endTime":45.81,"body":"division that stigma creates."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":41.22,"endTime":45.81,"body":"But I've come to think that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":45.81,"endTime":49.11,"body":"whilst these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":45.81,"endTime":49.11,"body":"conversations are totally vital,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":49.2,"endTime":54.66,"body":"we also need to ask some bigger"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":49.2,"endTime":54.66,"body":"questions about how stigma is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":54.66,"endTime":59.76,"body":"produced. And why once we do"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":54.66,"endTime":59.76,"body":"that – look at the big"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":59.76,"endTime":64.47,"body":"structural stuff of power, at"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":59.76,"endTime":64.47,"body":"history – we can start to see"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":64.47,"endTime":68.19,"body":"how stigmas wrapped up in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":64.47,"endTime":68.19,"body":"politics, economics, capitalism,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":68.19,"endTime":73.14,"body":"colonialism, patriarchy. That"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":68.19,"endTime":73.14,"body":"means we can start to see stigma"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":73.14,"endTime":78.33,"body":"as a power, a practice and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":73.14,"endTime":78.33,"body":"machine – something made to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":78.33,"endTime":82.98,"body":"serve the powerful and that can"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":78.33,"endTime":82.98,"body":"actually be empowering. It means"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":82.98,"endTime":87.09,"body":"we might stop blaming ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":82.98,"endTime":87.09,"body":"might stop thinking \"that's just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":87.09,"endTime":91.83,"body":"how things have to be\" and ask"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":87.09,"endTime":91.83,"body":"for better. In this series I've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":91.83,"endTime":94.92,"body":"been meeting inspirational"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":91.83,"endTime":94.92,"body":"academics, activists and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":94.92,"endTime":99.21,"body":"frontline workers to help me"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":94.92,"endTime":99.21,"body":"reflect on how stigma works,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":99.42,"endTime":103.02,"body":"where it comes from, and how we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":99.42,"endTime":103.02,"body":"might resist."},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":103.95,"endTime":105.78,"body":"If you're"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":103.95,"endTime":105.78,"body":"outraged about something, the"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":105.78,"endTime":109.8,"body":"chances are it's linked to some"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":105.78,"endTime":109.8,"body":"sort of policy that could be"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":109.8,"endTime":113.22,"body":"changed, that could then improve"},{"speaker":"Helen Greatorex","startTime":109.8,"endTime":113.22,"body":"people's lives."},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":114.6,"endTime":117.3,"body":"My goodness me, why"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":114.6,"endTime":117.3,"body":"the hell would you want to not"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":117.3,"endTime":120.57,"body":"be woke? Why wouldn't you want"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":117.3,"endTime":120.57,"body":"to be awake to the issues of"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":120.57,"endTime":124.08,"body":"injustice in the world, to the"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":120.57,"endTime":124.08,"body":"realities of stigmatisation and"},{"speaker":"Andy Knox","startTime":124.08,"endTime":125.4,"body":"its effects in society?"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":126.93,"endTime":128.85,"body":"We always"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":126.93,"endTime":128.85,"body":"have to understand history and"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":128.85,"endTime":132.27,"body":"the past to understand the"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":128.85,"endTime":132.27,"body":"present and the way in which"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":132.27,"endTime":136.62,"body":"stigma and labelling people and"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":132.27,"endTime":136.62,"body":"stigmatising people reproduces"},{"speaker":"Professor Alice Bloch","startTime":136.62,"endTime":137.22,"body":"itself."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":143.55,"endTime":147.0,"body":"So far we've heard"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":143.55,"endTime":147.0,"body":"how stigma marks some people out"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":147.03,"endTime":151.23,"body":"as lesser than others. We've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":147.03,"endTime":151.23,"body":"also talked about stigma and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":151.23,"endTime":156.45,"body":"poverty – something so entangled"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":151.23,"endTime":156.45,"body":"here in the UK – with histories"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":156.45,"endTime":160.86,"body":"of class, citizenship and race –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":156.45,"endTime":160.86,"body":"and today we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":160.86,"endTime":165.81,"body":"talking about stigma and racism."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":160.86,"endTime":165.81,"body":"The cultural fear – as Stuart"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":165.81,"endTime":171.78,"body":"Hall argued – that racism is a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":165.81,"endTime":171.78,"body":"badge, a token, a sign, a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":171.78,"endTime":175.62,"body":"political practice of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":171.78,"endTime":175.62,"body":"classification. And as we've"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":175.62,"endTime":179.55,"body":"seen in previous episodes, the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":175.62,"endTime":179.55,"body":"badge of racism has long been"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":179.55,"endTime":184.65,"body":"employed as othering practice –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":179.55,"endTime":184.65,"body":"a colouring device to dehumanise"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":184.65,"endTime":189.66,"body":"people – from enslaved people,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":184.65,"endTime":189.66,"body":"colonial subjects, non citizens,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":189.69,"endTime":194.7,"body":"refugees, migrants – racism can"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":189.69,"endTime":194.7,"body":"be understood in this sense, as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":194.73,"endTime":200.37,"body":"a form of stigmatisation – a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":194.73,"endTime":200.37,"body":"system of marks. When I set out"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":200.37,"endTime":204.45,"body":"to better understand racism"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":200.37,"endTime":204.45,"body":"through the lens of stigma, I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":204.45,"endTime":208.02,"body":"turned the place where I live –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":204.45,"endTime":208.02,"body":"Lancaster in Northwest England."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":208.62,"endTime":213.0,"body":"In the 1700s, Lancaster was the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":208.62,"endTime":213.0,"body":"fourth largest slave trading"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":213.0,"endTime":216.96,"body":"centre in England, was deeply"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":213.0,"endTime":216.96,"body":"involved in the Atlantic slave"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":216.96,"endTime":221.67,"body":"trade and wider slavery"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":216.96,"endTime":221.67,"body":"business. Slavers here had vast"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":221.67,"endTime":225.96,"body":"commercial networks in the West"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":221.67,"endTime":225.96,"body":"Indies and America's importing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":225.96,"endTime":230.16,"body":"goods produced by enslaved"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":225.96,"endTime":230.16,"body":"people, from mahogany to spices"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":230.16,"endTime":234.54,"body":"to cotton. And over time, slave"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":230.16,"endTime":234.54,"body":"trading families accumulated"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":234.54,"endTime":238.05,"body":"land and property and their"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":234.54,"endTime":238.05,"body":"enriched descendants became"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":238.05,"endTime":242.91,"body":"mayors and politicians and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":238.05,"endTime":242.91,"body":"dominated local life –  leaving"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":242.91,"endTime":247.95,"body":"that legacy in how the city"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":242.91,"endTime":247.95,"body":"looks today. So when Black Lives"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":247.95,"endTime":251.94,"body":"Matter protests happened here in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":247.95,"endTime":251.94,"body":"2020, attention focused on"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":251.94,"endTime":255.96,"body":"Lancaster's hidden history. The"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":251.94,"endTime":255.96,"body":"grave of a slave trading family"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":255.96,"endTime":259.89,"body":"was defaced, and protesters –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":255.96,"endTime":259.89,"body":"many of them schoolchildren,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":259.89,"endTime":264.48,"body":"students – gathered at the quay"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":259.89,"endTime":264.48,"body":"were slave ships once set sail."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":264.69,"endTime":268.44,"body":"It was clear that any movement"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":264.69,"endTime":268.44,"body":"for racial and social justice"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":268.44,"endTime":272.79,"body":"here has to contend with that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":268.44,"endTime":272.79,"body":"history and has to educate"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":272.79,"endTime":276.69,"body":"people about that history –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":272.79,"endTime":276.69,"body":"including the hidden stuff."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":277.92,"endTime":281.73,"body":"Today I'm with two activists"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":277.92,"endTime":281.73,"body":"whose work really testifies to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":281.73,"endTime":286.5,"body":"that. They're Geraldine Onek, –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":281.73,"endTime":286.5,"body":"a teacher who came to Lancaster"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":286.68,"endTime":290.73,"body":"as a child refugee from South"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":286.68,"endTime":290.73,"body":"Sudan and who after joining the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":290.73,"endTime":294.9,"body":"Black Lives Matter protests co"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":290.73,"endTime":294.9,"body":"founded Lancaster Black History"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":294.9,"endTime":300.03,"body":"community group with her friend"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":294.9,"endTime":300.03,"body":"Rebecca Novell. Also with us"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":300.03,"endTime":303.9,"body":"there's Jasmine Patel – who's in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":300.03,"endTime":303.9,"body":"her first year at Edinburgh uni"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":304.26,"endTime":307.2,"body":"and got involved with the group"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":304.26,"endTime":307.2,"body":"when she was still at school."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":307.47,"endTime":310.62,"body":"And I met them both through my"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":307.47,"endTime":310.62,"body":"work with that same group –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":310.86,"endTime":314.55,"body":"where we fight racism through"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":310.86,"endTime":314.55,"body":"education in our community."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":315.24,"endTime":318.6,"body":"Geraldine described what it was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":315.24,"endTime":318.6,"body":"like to go to those protests in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":318.6,"endTime":319.59,"body":"2020."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":320.25,"endTime":323.79,"body":"It was through"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":320.25,"endTime":323.79,"body":"just attending that. I just"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":323.79,"endTime":326.85,"body":"realised the sheer volume of"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":323.79,"endTime":326.85,"body":"support and allyship in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":326.85,"endTime":331.2,"body":"Lancaster. We went on the steps"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":326.85,"endTime":331.2,"body":"and my sister actually spoke out"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":331.32,"endTime":334.32,"body":"to the crowd –  because it was"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":331.32,"endTime":334.32,"body":"quite organic – it was, you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":334.32,"endTime":336.72,"body":"know, it wasn't a rehearsed"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":334.32,"endTime":336.72,"body":"thing. This was very..."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":337.11,"endTime":339.48,"body":"something real that was"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":337.11,"endTime":339.48,"body":"happening to our community. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":339.48,"endTime":343.35,"body":"we were trying to get the wider"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":339.48,"endTime":343.35,"body":"public – especially living in a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":344.01,"endTime":346.86,"body":"city where it's predominantly"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":344.01,"endTime":346.86,"body":"white – that's quite a difficult"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":346.86,"endTime":351.03,"body":"task in itself. And when we left"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":346.86,"endTime":351.03,"body":"that day, I didn't, I knew that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":351.09,"endTime":353.4,"body":"it couldn't be the end. I was"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":351.09,"endTime":353.4,"body":"like, oh, there's something"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":353.4,"endTime":356.46,"body":"niggling me. I think you can –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":353.4,"endTime":356.46,"body":"you can't just be an activist do"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":356.46,"endTime":360.09,"body":"a little show on a step and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":356.46,"endTime":360.09,"body":"then, you know. It's always"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":360.09,"endTime":365.88,"body":"what's next? What's the impact?"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":360.09,"endTime":365.88,"body":"So Rebecca Novell and I decided"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":365.88,"endTime":368.28,"body":"– we know what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":365.88,"endTime":368.28,"body":"Bristol was we can see that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":368.34,"endTime":372.06,"body":"they're topping statues into the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":368.34,"endTime":372.06,"body":"river – what's happening here?"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":372.06,"endTime":376.89,"body":"like Lancaster, must have its"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":372.06,"endTime":376.89,"body":"own, like, you know, skeletons"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":376.89,"endTime":380.34,"body":"in the closet. So we were like,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":376.89,"endTime":380.34,"body":"let's find this hidden history."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":380.34,"endTime":384.03,"body":"And let's see if there is any"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":380.34,"endTime":384.03,"body":"black history. So it was through"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":384.06,"endTime":389.28,"body":"connections and zoom calls, that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":384.06,"endTime":389.28,"body":"we co founded that group and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":389.28,"endTime":392.85,"body":"managed to get academics,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":389.28,"endTime":392.85,"body":"historians, means members, faith"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":392.85,"endTime":396.48,"body":"organisations all involved. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":392.85,"endTime":396.48,"body":"it just escalated, really hasn't"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":396.48,"endTime":396.63,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":396.78,"endTime":400.8,"body":"It certainly has"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":396.78,"endTime":400.8,"body":"escalated. One thing that was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":400.8,"endTime":403.83,"body":"really interesting to me from"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":400.8,"endTime":403.83,"body":"the outset – is after the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":403.83,"endTime":408.03,"body":"initial vigil, there were vigils"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":403.83,"endTime":408.03,"body":"on other evenings that carried"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":408.03,"endTime":411.21,"body":"on over the weeks that followed"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":408.03,"endTime":411.21,"body":"– and they started to really"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":411.21,"endTime":416.04,"body":"concentrate around the history."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":411.21,"endTime":416.04,"body":"So like, people were joining"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":416.04,"endTime":421.71,"body":"hands on the quayside – where"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":416.04,"endTime":421.71,"body":"there's a memorial to enslaved"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":421.71,"endTime":426.6,"body":"Africans connected to Lancaster"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":421.71,"endTime":426.6,"body":"slave trade. And it felt to me"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":426.6,"endTime":430.95,"body":"like it... there was a real"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":426.6,"endTime":430.95,"body":"sense around that, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":430.95,"endTime":435.24,"body":"ghosts coming up and saying –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":430.95,"endTime":435.24,"body":"this was the fourth largest"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":435.24,"endTime":440.94,"body":"slave trading port in Britain."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":435.24,"endTime":440.94,"body":"And it's not fully recognised in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":440.94,"endTime":444.03,"body":"this city or it's history. So it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":440.94,"endTime":444.03,"body":"was quite interesting to me –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":444.39,"endTime":447.69,"body":"and then you got in touch with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":444.39,"endTime":447.69,"body":"me I think. But I love the fact"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":447.69,"endTime":449.94,"body":"that from the beginning – and I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":447.69,"endTime":449.94,"body":"don't know if it's you or Petra,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":449.94,"endTime":453.78,"body":"your sister who said – you know"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":449.94,"endTime":453.78,"body":"\"this is this is not a moment,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.54,"body":"it's a movement\". And that's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":453.78,"endTime":456.54,"body":"become kind of the motto, the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":456.54,"endTime":458.49,"body":"history group, that Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":456.54,"endTime":458.49,"body":"History group, which I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":458.49,"endTime":462.15,"body":"is... We are a movement, I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":458.49,"endTime":462.15,"body":"–sometimes a chaotic one –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":462.36,"endTime":465.39,"body":"because we're involved in so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":462.36,"endTime":465.39,"body":"many different things now. But"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":465.39,"endTime":469.92,"body":"also from the beginning, was"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":465.39,"endTime":469.92,"body":"that mission that our role – as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":469.92,"endTime":473.28,"body":"the Black History group – is to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":469.92,"endTime":473.28,"body":"fight racism through education."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":474.06,"endTime":477.9,"body":"So yeah, is there anything else"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":474.06,"endTime":477.9,"body":"you want to reflect on around"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":478.38,"endTime":482.01,"body":"just, you know, the scale of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":478.38,"endTime":482.01,"body":"activity?"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":482.61,"endTime":484.86,"body":"You know, like"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":482.61,"endTime":484.86,"body":"you said, two and a half years"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":484.86,"endTime":489.81,"body":"ago, I remember sending emails"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":484.86,"endTime":489.81,"body":"out to schools say – look,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":489.81,"endTime":494.7,"body":"we're, we're a new group. We're"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":489.81,"endTime":494.7,"body":"trying to educate the community,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":494.7,"endTime":498.24,"body":"especially schools about"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":494.7,"endTime":498.24,"body":"Lancaster's hidden history. With"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":498.24,"endTime":504.06,"body":"it being a local history unit –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":498.24,"endTime":504.06,"body":"which we know is a statutory"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":504.63,"endTime":507.6,"body":"part of the curriculum – would"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":504.63,"endTime":507.6,"body":"you consider, you know,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":507.81,"endTime":512.88,"body":"ushelping you in teaching this"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":507.81,"endTime":512.88,"body":"unit? And I'll be honest, it was"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":512.88,"endTime":517.17,"body":"quite disheartening to like, get"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":512.88,"endTime":517.17,"body":"only the odd reply. But it was a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":517.17,"endTime":520.23,"body":"difficult time when I understood"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":517.17,"endTime":520.23,"body":"being a teacher myself, like, it"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":520.23,"endTime":522.78,"body":"was covid time. And then you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":520.23,"endTime":522.78,"body":"fast forward two and a half"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":523.17,"endTime":527.16,"body":"years, and we've got 63 schools"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":523.17,"endTime":527.16,"body":"locally – who have committed and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":527.16,"endTime":530.55,"body":"said that they will embed this"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":527.16,"endTime":530.55,"body":"into their curriculum – not just"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":530.55,"endTime":534.63,"body":"as a one off, but year on year"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":530.55,"endTime":534.63,"body":"out. So then they know that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":534.72,"endTime":538.62,"body":"every primary school child who"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":534.72,"endTime":538.62,"body":"leaves that Primary School will"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":538.62,"endTime":542.76,"body":"go into the world having that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":538.62,"endTime":542.76,"body":"experience of going around those"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":542.97,"endTime":546.81,"body":"sites in Lancaster linked to the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":542.97,"endTime":546.81,"body":"slave trade, knowing about black"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":546.81,"endTime":549.54,"body":"history. And I think we've"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":546.81,"endTime":549.54,"body":"always said, like you said –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":549.57,"endTime":553.14,"body":"fighting racism through"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":549.57,"endTime":553.14,"body":"education – because if we can"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":553.14,"endTime":557.13,"body":"teach about the past, then it"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":553.14,"endTime":557.13,"body":"helps us to like, forge a better"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":557.13,"endTime":560.79,"body":"future. And I think when we talk"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":557.13,"endTime":560.79,"body":"like about stigma, like you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":560.79,"endTime":565.38,"body":"said, we are now a group kind"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":560.79,"endTime":565.38,"body":"of, kind of highlighting putting"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":565.38,"endTime":568.59,"body":"that spotlight on a you know,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":565.38,"endTime":568.59,"body":"touchy subject – and there was a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":568.59,"endTime":572.04,"body":"backlash, you know, from our"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":568.59,"endTime":572.04,"body":"group – and we did we receive"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":572.25,"endTime":575.64,"body":"negativity in terms of from our"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":572.25,"endTime":575.64,"body":"community – the past is in the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":575.64,"endTime":579.03,"body":"past and what you're doing"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":575.64,"endTime":579.03,"body":"dredging this back up and get"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":579.03,"endTime":582.96,"body":"over it. And I just think – for"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":579.03,"endTime":582.96,"body":"me personally – it was always"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":582.96,"endTime":587.16,"body":"like, how do I make this be a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":582.96,"endTime":587.16,"body":"concern for everyone and not"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":587.16,"endTime":590.52,"body":"just people of colour? So I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":587.16,"endTime":590.52,"body":"think going from schools –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":590.76,"endTime":593.79,"body":"that's the first you know, start"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":590.76,"endTime":593.79,"body":"from the foundation. I've always"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":593.79,"endTime":596.52,"body":"believed start from as young as"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":593.79,"endTime":596.52,"body":"possible, even with the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":596.52,"endTime":598.92,"body":"sensitivity of the topic, it's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":596.52,"endTime":598.92,"body":"achievable."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":599.22,"endTime":602.61,"body":"I mean, you just a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":599.22,"endTime":602.61,"body":"tour de force,  the work with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":602.61,"endTime":605.91,"body":"schools, it just blows my mind."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":602.61,"endTime":605.91,"body":"And then there's the other that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":605.91,"endTime":609.63,"body":"was all the other projects – the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":605.91,"endTime":609.63,"body":"slavery banner, the sewing Cafe"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":609.63,"endTime":613.62,"body":"Lancaster collaboration that we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":609.63,"endTime":613.62,"body":"did, where they community"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":613.62,"endTime":618.12,"body":"volunteers made a banner – from"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":613.62,"endTime":618.12,"body":"all the research that we did in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":618.15,"endTime":621.72,"body":"with different groups – and how"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":618.15,"endTime":621.72,"body":"like all the museums are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":621.72,"endTime":623.94,"body":"involved – how they're"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":621.72,"endTime":623.94,"body":"recaptioning all their"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":623.94,"endTime":629.46,"body":"collections, based on our"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":623.94,"endTime":629.46,"body":"community research. I just feel"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":630.03,"endTime":635.19,"body":"so honoured to be part of this"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":630.03,"endTime":635.19,"body":"movement with you all. So it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":635.19,"endTime":638.37,"body":"just great to talk about it. And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":635.19,"endTime":638.37,"body":"the massive community conference"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":638.37,"endTime":643.53,"body":"we had at the university – 200"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":638.37,"endTime":643.53,"body":"participants, Catherine Hall,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":643.95,"endTime":647.58,"body":"and you know, Richard Benjamin,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":643.95,"endTime":647.58,"body":"from the International Slavery"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":647.58,"endTime":652.95,"body":"museum coming to hear us and our"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":647.58,"endTime":652.95,"body":"community research participants"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":652.98,"endTime":657.63,"body":"talking about their research. So"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":652.98,"endTime":657.63,"body":"Jasmine – so one of the first"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":657.63,"endTime":662.4,"body":"projects we started when we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":657.63,"endTime":662.4,"body":"formed was the Slavery Family"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":662.4,"endTime":666.27,"body":"Trees project and we got funded"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":662.4,"endTime":666.27,"body":"by a group called Necessity to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":666.27,"endTime":668.52,"body":"do – and it's all in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":666.27,"endTime":668.52,"body":"pandemic, so it's hard to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":668.52,"endTime":671.97,"body":"remember now. And we got about,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":668.52,"endTime":671.97,"body":"I think it was eight groups"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":671.97,"endTime":676.08,"body":"researching different families"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":671.97,"endTime":676.08,"body":"in Lancaster – who were slave"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":676.08,"endTime":680.88,"body":"owners, slave traders, who were"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":676.08,"endTime":680.88,"body":"people, merchants dealing with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":680.88,"endTime":686.67,"body":"plantation economies, bringing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":680.88,"endTime":686.67,"body":"in sugar, etc, etc. So we wanted"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":686.67,"endTime":689.19,"body":"to kind of right do this sort of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":686.67,"endTime":689.19,"body":"history, this map of these"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":689.19,"endTime":693.99,"body":"families, and you were then at"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":689.19,"endTime":693.99,"body":"school, and you got an email,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":693.99,"endTime":696.03,"body":"presumably from your history"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":693.99,"endTime":696.03,"body":"teacher that said – do you want"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":696.03,"endTime":699.87,"body":"to be involved? And then we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":696.03,"endTime":699.87,"body":"would meet online and do the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":699.87,"endTime":702.36,"body":"project. So do you want to talk"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":699.87,"endTime":702.36,"body":"about what that was like? Why"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":702.36,"endTime":706.02,"body":"you got involved? And also which"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":702.36,"endTime":706.02,"body":"family research and what you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":706.02,"endTime":706.71,"body":"found out?"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":707.04,"endTime":710.91,"body":"Yeah, so I think"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":707.04,"endTime":710.91,"body":"I just got involved because I"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":710.91,"endTime":716.16,"body":"just had a kind of a genuine"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":710.91,"endTime":716.16,"body":"interest in this topic. Because"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":716.16,"endTime":720.18,"body":"the curriculum was different"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":716.16,"endTime":720.18,"body":"whilst I was in my lower years"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":720.18,"endTime":724.62,"body":"at school, it hadn't undergone"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":720.18,"endTime":724.62,"body":"any reforms to include local"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":724.62,"endTime":730.68,"body":"histories. So I didn't actually"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":724.62,"endTime":730.68,"body":"know anything about Lancaster's"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":730.71,"endTime":735.18,"body":"history and its connections with"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":730.71,"endTime":735.18,"body":"the slave trade. So yeah, I got"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":735.18,"endTime":740.04,"body":"involved. So the group from"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":735.18,"endTime":740.04,"body":"Lancaster Girls Grammar, we were"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":740.04,"endTime":745.35,"body":"researching the Lindow family."},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":740.04,"endTime":745.35,"body":"And Lindow – as we found out –"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":745.38,"endTime":749.82,"body":"he was involved in almost every"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":745.38,"endTime":749.82,"body":"single aspect of the slave"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":749.82,"endTime":755.22,"body":"trade. He was unscrupulous, was"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":749.82,"endTime":755.22,"body":"involved in the direct trade,"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":755.22,"endTime":759.3,"body":"the Inter-American slave trade,"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":755.22,"endTime":759.3,"body":"he was a slave owner, plantar,"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":759.3,"endTime":764.16,"body":"ship owner – exploring his story"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":759.3,"endTime":764.16,"body":"just really demonstrated the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":764.19,"endTime":767.94,"body":"interconnected nature of slave"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":764.19,"endTime":767.94,"body":"trade economies within"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":767.94,"endTime":768.84,"body":"Lancaster,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":769.14,"endTime":771.9,"body":"One of the one of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":769.14,"endTime":771.9,"body":"the things that came up through"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":771.93,"endTime":777.03,"body":"the Lindow research was also"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":771.93,"endTime":777.03,"body":"really starting to think about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":777.03,"endTime":782.76,"body":"Black Lancastrians. So people"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":777.03,"endTime":782.76,"body":"who'd arrived in various ways"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":782.76,"endTime":785.73,"body":"and we don't, or we can't always"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":782.76,"endTime":785.73,"body":"fill in the details of how – but"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":785.73,"endTime":789.48,"body":"had arrived to live in Lancaster"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":785.73,"endTime":789.48,"body":"and actually that thinking about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":789.48,"endTime":794.64,"body":"Black agency and what it would"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":789.48,"endTime":794.64,"body":"have been like to be Black in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":794.67,"endTime":798.06,"body":"18th century Lancaster – and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":794.67,"endTime":798.06,"body":"Lindow is one of those families,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":798.06,"endTime":801.66,"body":"isn't he? – where we started to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":798.06,"endTime":801.66,"body":"think about Black presence. So"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":802.05,"endTime":806.25,"body":"Lindow's house – just for the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":802.05,"endTime":806.25,"body":"listener – is right next to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":806.25,"endTime":809.73,"body":"Jasmine's school, and it still"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":806.25,"endTime":809.73,"body":"exists, it's a it's a very large"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":809.73,"endTime":814.59,"body":"grand Georgian house. And in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":809.73,"endTime":814.59,"body":"that house –we're almost as sure"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":814.68,"endTime":818.22,"body":"we could be – there was a Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":814.68,"endTime":818.22,"body":"slave servant who belonged to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":818.22,"endTime":821.94,"body":"Lindow, living in that house"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":818.22,"endTime":821.94,"body":"called John Chance and that, I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":821.94,"endTime":825.21,"body":"think that became part of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":821.94,"endTime":825.21,"body":"work, wasn't it?  That we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":825.21,"endTime":829.32,"body":"started to think about Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":825.21,"endTime":829.32,"body":"lives and Black presence. I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":829.32,"endTime":832.38,"body":"think that was that was really"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":829.32,"endTime":832.38,"body":"interesting that this house"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":832.38,"endTime":835.32,"body":"still stands. And I know Jasmine"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":832.38,"endTime":835.32,"body":"– you got to go into the house,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":835.89,"endTime":839.43,"body":"and have a look round it as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":835.89,"endTime":839.43,"body":"well, which is amazing. And I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":839.43,"endTime":843.33,"body":"know also that your school group"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":839.43,"endTime":843.33,"body":"actually made a trail and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":843.33,"endTime":847.14,"body":"started doing work so that you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":843.33,"endTime":847.14,"body":"can feed back into the school"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":847.14,"endTime":851.01,"body":"curriculum. So whenever that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":847.14,"endTime":851.01,"body":"unit on transatlantic slavery is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":851.01,"endTime":854.49,"body":"taught in the school in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":851.01,"endTime":854.49,"body":"future, it will be tied"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":854.49,"endTime":859.62,"body":"literally to the local place of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":854.49,"endTime":859.62,"body":"where the school sits –  Lindow"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":859.62,"endTime":865.5,"body":"Square that it sits in and also"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":859.62,"endTime":865.5,"body":"Lindow's house. And also that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":865.5,"endTime":869.52,"body":"reminder that there were Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":865.5,"endTime":869.52,"body":"Lancastrians here in the 18th"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":869.55,"endTime":873.99,"body":"century living here. So at the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":869.55,"endTime":873.99,"body":"end of that project, I, me and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":873.99,"endTime":877.08,"body":"you worked a bit together,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":873.99,"endTime":877.08,"body":"didn't we – writing a letter? Do"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":877.08,"endTime":878.91,"body":"you want to just say something"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":877.08,"endTime":878.91,"body":"about that?"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":879.33,"endTime":883.8,"body":"Yes. So we wrote"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":879.33,"endTime":883.8,"body":"a letter to the Tate Gallery. So"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":883.8,"endTime":888.03,"body":"I'd been researching one of the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":883.8,"endTime":888.03,"body":"portraits that hung in number"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":888.03,"endTime":891.87,"body":"one Queen Square – Lindow's"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":888.03,"endTime":891.87,"body":"house – and this portrait"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":892.32,"endTime":897.6,"body":"depicts William Lindow and his"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":892.32,"endTime":897.6,"body":"wife, Abigail Rawlinson – she"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":897.63,"endTime":901.2,"body":"was a member of the Rawlinson"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":897.63,"endTime":901.2,"body":"family– they were major slave"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":901.2,"endTime":905.01,"body":"traders in Lancaster at the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":901.2,"endTime":905.01,"body":"time. And one of the ways Lindow"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.33,"body":"made his fortune was by marrying"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":905.4,"endTime":909.33,"body":"into that family. So the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":909.33,"endTime":912.66,"body":"portrait has Lindow and his"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":909.33,"endTime":912.66,"body":"wife. And then in the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":912.66,"endTime":918.36,"body":"background, you can see some"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":912.66,"endTime":918.36,"body":"ships. And the caption on this"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":918.36,"endTime":922.59,"body":"portrait by the Tate Gallery –"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":918.36,"endTime":922.59,"body":"it never alluded to his"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":922.59,"endTime":926.4,"body":"connections with the slave"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":922.59,"endTime":926.4,"body":"trade. And we were obviously"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":926.4,"endTime":930.87,"body":"quite concerned by this. And so"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":926.4,"endTime":930.87,"body":"we wanted to change this. So we"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":930.87,"endTime":934.86,"body":"came up with an alternative"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":930.87,"endTime":934.86,"body":"caption, which clearly stated"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":934.95,"endTime":938.13,"body":"Lindow's involvement as a"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":934.95,"endTime":938.13,"body":"plantar, a slave owner,"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":938.61,"endTime":941.7,"body":"unfortunately, the Tate Gallery"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":938.61,"endTime":941.7,"body":"have still not gotten back to"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":941.7,"endTime":942.12,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":942.36,"endTime":944.19,"body":"Maybe they will"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":942.36,"endTime":944.19,"body":"when they listen to this,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":944.19,"endTime":944.52,"body":"Jasmine hey?"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":945.96,"endTime":948.03,"body":"Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":945.96,"endTime":948.03,"body":"obviously quite disappointing"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":948.03,"endTime":948.51,"body":"for us."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":948.54,"endTime":950.46,"body":"Well, we're not"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":948.54,"endTime":950.46,"body":"given up yet though. And it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":950.46,"endTime":953.43,"body":"making me think about one"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":950.46,"endTime":953.43,"body":"project actually, that we're all"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":953.43,"endTime":957.36,"body":"involved in. So this is a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":953.43,"endTime":957.36,"body":"project where Lancaster Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":957.36,"endTime":961.02,"body":"History group has partnered with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":957.36,"endTime":961.02,"body":"Judges Lodging Museum in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":961.02,"endTime":965.64,"body":"Lancaster to help them reframe"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":961.02,"endTime":965.64,"body":"their collections. So this is"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":965.64,"endTime":969.57,"body":"like a grand Georgian building."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":965.64,"endTime":969.57,"body":"It's where the judge stayed when"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":969.57,"endTime":974.46,"body":"he came to Lancaster for the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":969.57,"endTime":974.46,"body":"Assizes courts. And it's now a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":974.46,"endTime":978.0,"body":"museum and in that museum,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":974.46,"endTime":978.0,"body":"they've got lots of portaits –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":978.03,"endTime":981.39,"body":"like the one Jasmine was talking"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":978.03,"endTime":981.39,"body":"about of Lindow. They've got"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":981.63,"endTime":986.76,"body":"portraits of merchant slave"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":981.63,"endTime":986.76,"body":"traders, slave owners and their"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":986.76,"endTime":991.83,"body":"families in the museum – as well"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":986.76,"endTime":991.83,"body":"as a very large collection of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":991.83,"endTime":995.67,"body":"Gillows furniture – and Gillows"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":991.83,"endTime":995.67,"body":"was a very famous 18th century"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":995.67,"endTime":1000.71,"body":"furniture maker. And all the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":995.67,"endTime":1000.71,"body":"exotic woods like mahogany came"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1000.71,"endTime":1006.02,"body":"from the plantation into"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1000.71,"endTime":1006.02,"body":"Lancaster port. And it was one"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1006.02,"endTime":1009.26,"body":"of the biggest businesses in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1006.02,"endTime":1009.26,"body":"Lancaster – the second business,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1009.59,"endTime":1012.68,"body":"biggest business – shipbuilding"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1009.59,"endTime":1012.68,"body":"was the first – including"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1012.68,"endTime":1016.13,"body":"building slave ships in the 18th"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1012.68,"endTime":1016.13,"body":"century. Anyway, all of that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1016.13,"endTime":1020.39,"body":"aside – what is so interesting"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1016.13,"endTime":1020.39,"body":"about the project with this, the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1020.39,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"Judge's Lodging – is we got the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1020.39,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"money to commission an artist to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1029.15,"body":"produce a permanent set of five"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1029.15,"body":"portraits that are going to sit"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1029.15,"endTime":1034.1,"body":"in this museum – opposite the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1029.15,"endTime":1034.1,"body":"portraits of these Lancastrians"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1034.13,"endTime":1038.21,"body":"that were involved in slavery"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1034.13,"endTime":1038.21,"body":"business. So do you want to tell"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1038.21,"endTime":1041.45,"body":"us a little bit about – because"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1038.21,"endTime":1041.45,"body":"Jasmine, I know you're on the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1041.45,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"commissioning group – about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1041.45,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"that, and about the artist and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1044.45,"endTime":1045.29,"body":"what she's doing."},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1045.619,"endTime":1049.909,"body":"We chose the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1045.619,"endTime":1049.909,"body":"artist, Lela Harris. She's a"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1049.909,"endTime":1054.499,"body":"local artist from Kendall. And"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1049.909,"endTime":1054.499,"body":"she's absolutely brilliant. So"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1054.499,"endTime":1057.469,"body":"she's done lots of research"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1054.499,"endTime":1057.469,"body":"herself – building on the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1057.469,"endTime":1060.829,"body":"research that we've done within"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1057.469,"endTime":1060.829,"body":"the Lancaster Black History"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1060.829,"endTime":1066.949,"body":"group on Black Lancastrians –"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1060.829,"endTime":1066.949,"body":"and she's basically exploring"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1067.219,"endTime":1072.649,"body":"and trying to highlight through"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1067.219,"endTime":1072.649,"body":"her portraits, Black agency. So"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1077.179,"body":"it's about kind of. dispelling"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1077.179,"body":"this myth that learning about"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1077.749,"endTime":1081.919,"body":"Black histories is all sort of"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1077.749,"endTime":1081.919,"body":"doom and gloom. And we're just"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1081.919,"endTime":1086.089,"body":"trying to show that actually, it"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1081.919,"endTime":1086.089,"body":"can be enlightening and"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1086.119,"endTime":1088.459,"body":"empowering to learn about these"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1086.119,"endTime":1088.459,"body":"histories."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1088.85,"endTime":1092.93,"body":"And alongside"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1088.85,"endTime":1092.93,"body":"these portraits, Geraldine, I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1092.93,"endTime":1096.08,"body":"know you've been working with"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1092.93,"endTime":1096.08,"body":"Lela, in the museum running"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1096.08,"endTime":1099.11,"body":"workshops for kids and the kids"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1096.08,"endTime":1099.11,"body":"artworks are going to be"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1099.11,"endTime":1101.99,"body":"displayed – which I think it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1099.11,"endTime":1101.99,"body":"fantastic, as well – as part of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1101.99,"endTime":1104.96,"body":"the exhibition launch. Can you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1101.99,"endTime":1104.96,"body":"tell us about the workshops? And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1104.96,"endTime":1107.72,"body":"I'm really interested in like,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1104.96,"endTime":1107.72,"body":"what Jasmine has just said about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1107.72,"endTime":1111.74,"body":"Black agency, and how I know"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1107.72,"endTime":1111.74,"body":"you've been working that into"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1111.74,"endTime":1114.71,"body":"the workshops, thinking about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1111.74,"endTime":1114.71,"body":"runaways, etc."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1115.28,"endTime":1119.24,"body":"Yeah, so when we"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1115.28,"endTime":1119.24,"body":"did phasing – past phase one,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1119.69,"endTime":1124.58,"body":"the focus was teaching them what"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1119.69,"endTime":1124.58,"body":"the slave trade was. So this"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1124.58,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"time, we wanted to make sure"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1124.58,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"that the limelight was on those"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1128.51,"endTime":1133.19,"body":"Black stories. So we focused on"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1128.51,"endTime":1133.19,"body":"Igbo boy, using the primary"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1133.19,"endTime":1137.63,"body":"source of an advert – showing"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1133.19,"endTime":1137.63,"body":"them this is a real advert from"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1137.63,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"that period of time. And it was"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1137.63,"endTime":1142.1,"body":"so interesting, because there's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1142.1,"endTime":1145.16,"body":"so much descriptive language in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1142.1,"endTime":1145.16,"body":"it – describing his height, his"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1145.16,"endTime":1150.38,"body":"posture, his features, his"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1145.16,"endTime":1150.38,"body":"dialect – and from this, we got"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1150.38,"endTime":1154.55,"body":"the children to think about"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1150.38,"endTime":1154.55,"body":"what's missing. And the first"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1154.55,"endTime":1157.88,"body":"thing they're like \"he's got no"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1154.55,"endTime":1157.88,"body":"name\". And we then discovered,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1157.91,"endTime":1161.21,"body":"okay, here's some Igbo tribes."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1157.91,"endTime":1161.21,"body":"So we learned about the Igbo"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1161.21,"endTime":1166.73,"body":"culture, modern day South"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1161.21,"endTime":1166.73,"body":"Nigeria. So I took in examples"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1166.73,"endTime":1170.42,"body":"of African clothing, I showed"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1166.73,"endTime":1170.42,"body":"them the different garments that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1174.11,"body":"that Igbo culture today would"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1174.11,"body":"wear – and we'll discuss that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1174.11,"endTime":1176.57,"body":"what life would have been like"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1174.11,"endTime":1176.57,"body":"for him living there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1176.75,"endTime":1180.2,"body":"try and give him this agency in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1176.75,"endTime":1180.2,"body":"terms of giving him a name and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1180.2,"endTime":1184.82,"body":"identity. We gave him a name,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1180.2,"endTime":1184.82,"body":"you know, an African name from"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1184.82,"endTime":1189.68,"body":"his culture. So the kids chose"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1184.82,"endTime":1189.68,"body":"\"Afamefuna\" – which means my"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1189.68,"endTime":1195.11,"body":"name will not be forgotten. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1189.68,"endTime":1195.11,"body":"then we talked about how this"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1195.11,"endTime":1198.98,"body":"was done onto him. It didn't"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1195.11,"endTime":1198.98,"body":"define him. He was probably"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1198.98,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"someone's son, a brother – we"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1198.98,"endTime":1202.58,"body":"talked about all the different"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1207.02,"body":"strands or who he may have"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1202.58,"endTime":1207.02,"body":"become or who he may have been."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1207.32,"endTime":1209.87,"body":"And now I really enjoyed it"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1207.32,"endTime":1209.87,"body":"because it was, it was really"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1214.16,"body":"nice to just talk about someone"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1214.16,"body":"in terms of a being as opposed"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1214.16,"endTime":1217.43,"body":"to a possession, we really"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1214.16,"endTime":1217.43,"body":"wanted to highlight that they"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1217.43,"endTime":1220.4,"body":"were people first, then they"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1217.43,"endTime":1220.4,"body":"were, they were enslaved. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.88,"body":"that's very important for like"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1220.4,"endTime":1223.88,"body":"the language use as well, when"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1223.88,"endTime":1226.82,"body":"we're teaching them. So we"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1223.88,"endTime":1226.82,"body":"always say, enslaved African as"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1226.82,"endTime":1227.87,"body":"opposed to a slave."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1228.38,"endTime":1231.35,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1228.38,"endTime":1231.35,"body":"emphasis on Black agency is so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1231.38,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"important. And actually, what's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1231.38,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"made all of the community"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1235.58,"endTime":1239.93,"body":"research possible is things like"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1235.58,"endTime":1239.93,"body":"these new digital resources. So"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1239.93,"endTime":1244.82,"body":"the Igbo boy – who was an"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1239.93,"endTime":1244.82,"body":"enslaved African boy, who was he"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1244.82,"endTime":1249.11,"body":"was owned by a Reverend in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1244.82,"endTime":1249.11,"body":"Heysham, which is a port town"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1249.11,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"Near Lancaster – we know about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1249.11,"endTime":1253.7,"body":"him because of the traces left"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1253.91,"endTime":1258.68,"body":"in a runaway slave advert that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1253.91,"endTime":1258.68,"body":"is part of this big database"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1258.68,"endTime":1262.07,"body":"that is now publicly accessible."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1258.68,"endTime":1262.07,"body":"So there's also something about,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1262.46,"endTime":1267.2,"body":"like this public education and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1262.46,"endTime":1267.2,"body":"resources that mean we can do"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1267.59,"endTime":1272.12,"body":"public history making together"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1267.59,"endTime":1272.12,"body":"now in a way that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1272.12,"endTime":1276.65,"body":"possible before. Geraldine, it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1272.12,"endTime":1276.65,"body":"strikes me that – and you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1276.65,"endTime":1279.65,"body":"mentioned it a bit earlier – but"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1276.65,"endTime":1279.65,"body":"it strikes me that when we're"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1279.65,"endTime":1283.46,"body":"talking about white privilege,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1279.65,"endTime":1283.46,"body":"people can be so like defensive."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1283.49,"endTime":1286.49,"body":"And so I suppose this is partly"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1283.49,"endTime":1286.49,"body":"what I'm trying to get about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1290.39,"body":"education. You know, people get"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1290.39,"body":"very defensive, like you said –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1290.39,"endTime":1293.42,"body":"history is in the past, we don't"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1290.39,"endTime":1293.42,"body":"want to know, you know, why"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1293.42,"endTime":1297.23,"body":"can't we just focus on the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1293.42,"endTime":1297.23,"body":"positive or the future? – And"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1300.32,"body":"actually, when, when we opened"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1297.89,"endTime":1300.32,"body":"when I asked you the first"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1300.32,"endTime":1302.81,"body":"question, Jasmine, you said – I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1300.32,"endTime":1302.81,"body":"didn't know anything, and it's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1302.81,"endTime":1306.89,"body":"like, if only everybody, you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1302.81,"endTime":1306.89,"body":"know, came with a sense of not"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1306.89,"endTime":1310.91,"body":"knowing and then openness to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1306.89,"endTime":1310.91,"body":"saying, I don't know, you know –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1310.91,"endTime":1315.86,"body":"that would be so fantastic. But"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1310.91,"endTime":1315.86,"body":"part of I think shattering the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1315.86,"endTime":1320.27,"body":"kind of stigma around admitting"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1315.86,"endTime":1320.27,"body":"not knowing, is part of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1320.27,"endTime":1324.26,"body":"difficulty of trying to do anti"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1320.27,"endTime":1324.26,"body":"racist education and work. So I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1324.26,"endTime":1328.58,"body":"was just wondering – I think we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1324.26,"endTime":1328.58,"body":"aren't doing it – but how do we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1328.58,"endTime":1332.45,"body":"constantly reflect or come back–"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1328.58,"endTime":1332.45,"body":"Geraldine  - to that"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1332.48,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"defensiveness? How do we tackle"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1332.48,"endTime":1336.14,"body":"that in different ways?"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1336.65,"endTime":1340.7,"body":"it's making sure"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1336.65,"endTime":1340.7,"body":"that we do it in a collaborative"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1340.7,"endTime":1344.09,"body":"way. There's nothing worse when"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1340.7,"endTime":1344.09,"body":"you're trying to educate"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1344.09,"endTime":1347.33,"body":"someone, and they feel that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1344.09,"endTime":1347.33,"body":"they're spoken down to and I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1347.33,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"think what in a way we do it –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1347.33,"endTime":1351.23,"body":"we do it in a way that it's a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1351.23,"endTime":1357.14,"body":"discussion and informing them"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1351.23,"endTime":1357.14,"body":"and using facts and evidence –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1357.14,"endTime":1362.54,"body":"and so they can become more"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1357.14,"endTime":1362.54,"body":"knowledgeable in that topic. You"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1362.54,"endTime":1366.41,"body":"know, I – I hand on heart – I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1362.54,"endTime":1366.41,"body":"put my hand up, I said, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1366.41,"endTime":1369.89,"body":"even know what BLM stood for two"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1366.41,"endTime":1369.89,"body":"years ago. And as a Black person"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1369.89,"endTime":1373.25,"body":"to say that, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1369.89,"endTime":1373.25,"body":"– t's okay to not know"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1373.25,"endTime":1377.66,"body":"everything. And I always teach"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1373.25,"endTime":1377.66,"body":"even children  I said – adults"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1377.66,"endTime":1380.75,"body":"don't know everything, every day"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1377.66,"endTime":1380.75,"body":"is changing, we're finding out"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1380.75,"endTime":1384.74,"body":"more information day to day. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1380.75,"endTime":1384.74,"body":"if organisations like churches"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1384.77,"endTime":1387.32,"body":"are putting their hands up and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1384.77,"endTime":1387.32,"body":"saying – look, we had a role to"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1387.32,"endTime":1391.31,"body":"play – and facing this past,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1387.32,"endTime":1391.31,"body":"because it's the addressing it I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1391.31,"endTime":1394.16,"body":"think – for me, personally – we"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1391.31,"endTime":1394.16,"body":"have to address it first. So you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1394.16,"endTime":1398.09,"body":"have to admit it happened in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1394.16,"endTime":1398.09,"body":"order to move on. And I think a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1398.09,"endTime":1403.67,"body":"lot of people today, it's a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1398.09,"endTime":1403.67,"body":"bitter pill to swallow because"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1404.06,"endTime":1406.61,"body":"some of them are still"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1404.06,"endTime":1406.61,"body":"benefiting it, from it, you know"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1406.61,"endTime":1410.0,"body":"– in terms of inheritance and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1406.61,"endTime":1410.0,"body":"these Georgian houses that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1410.0,"endTime":1413.45,"body":"they've they live in – because"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1410.0,"endTime":1413.45,"body":"their descendants may or may"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1413.45,"endTime":1416.42,"body":"have not profited through the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1413.45,"endTime":1416.42,"body":"slave trade in order to purchase"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1416.42,"endTime":1421.04,"body":"it. So it's looking inside"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1416.42,"endTime":1421.04,"body":"themselves and thinking, what is"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1424.82,"body":"it that's stopping me from"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1424.82,"body":"actually wanting to learn more?"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1425.15,"endTime":1428.42,"body":"And yeah, there are people"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1425.15,"endTime":1428.42,"body":"making changes in their small"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1428.42,"endTime":1431.96,"body":"ways. And I think we've"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1428.42,"endTime":1431.96,"body":"antiracism is that proactivity,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1431.96,"endTime":1435.29,"body":"isn't it? like actively having"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1431.96,"endTime":1435.29,"body":"those discussions, even though"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1435.29,"endTime":1437.27,"body":"they make you feel"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1435.29,"endTime":1437.27,"body":"uncomfortable? And yes, in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1437.27,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"Lancaster, I think we are a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1437.27,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"great example of like openness"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1440.51,"endTime":1444.59,"body":"to change – in terms of the pub,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1440.51,"endTime":1444.59,"body":"changing its name –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1447.95,"body":"acknowledging, oh, actually,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1444.59,"endTime":1447.95,"body":"Robert Gillow – we don't feel"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1447.95,"endTime":1451.16,"body":"right, celebrating and having"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1447.95,"endTime":1451.16,"body":"our pub named after him, let's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1451.16,"endTime":1455.33,"body":"do something about it. But"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1451.16,"endTime":1455.33,"body":"making that action and using"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1455.33,"endTime":1460.07,"body":"that informed knowledge to make"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1455.33,"endTime":1460.07,"body":"that decision, even aware of the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1460.07,"endTime":1462.35,"body":"backlash they might receive –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1460.07,"endTime":1462.35,"body":"and they did get some – you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1462.35,"endTime":1467.0,"body":"know, and whatever change you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1462.35,"endTime":1467.0,"body":"do, whatever you, we attempt to"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1467.0,"endTime":1470.48,"body":"do, it's always been in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1467.0,"endTime":1470.48,"body":"partnership with the community."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1472.91,"body":"We've always said that's the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1470.54,"endTime":1472.91,"body":"forefront. We will never do it"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1473.21,"endTime":1475.97,"body":"if it wasn't agreed –  if we"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1473.21,"endTime":1475.97,"body":"were, if they weren't consulted."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1476.09,"endTime":1479.3,"body":"And that's why we do this"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1476.09,"endTime":1479.3,"body":"community consultations. So it's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1479.3,"endTime":1481.61,"body":"something that they could become"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1479.3,"endTime":1481.61,"body":"involved in."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1486.5,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1482.0,"endTime":1486.5,"body":"it's fantastic. The way the way"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1486.5,"endTime":1492.02,"body":"that we're doing it and how we"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1486.5,"endTime":1492.02,"body":"work with that resistance in a"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1492.02,"endTime":1497.39,"body":"way that's open – not just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1492.02,"endTime":1497.39,"body":"confrontational – I think that's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1497.39,"endTime":1500.36,"body":"part of, but that's part of why"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1497.39,"endTime":1500.36,"body":"the diversity of the group is so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1500.36,"endTime":1503.33,"body":"great as well – because we can,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1500.36,"endTime":1503.33,"body":"we all speak to different"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1503.33,"endTime":1508.01,"body":"communities as well. Jasmine"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1503.33,"endTime":1508.01,"body":"you're now Secretary of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1508.01,"endTime":1510.62,"body":"Lancaster Black History group."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1508.01,"endTime":1510.62,"body":"But I also know you've just"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1510.62,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"started university in Edinburgh."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1510.62,"endTime":1515.69,"body":"And I kind of wondered, you"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1515.69,"endTime":1520.01,"body":"know, what have you taken from"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1515.69,"endTime":1520.01,"body":"being part of the this movement"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1520.22,"endTime":1524.06,"body":"to your new life as a student in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1520.22,"endTime":1524.06,"body":"Edinburgh? What kind of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1524.06,"endTime":1527.15,"body":"conversations are you having?"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1524.06,"endTime":1527.15,"body":"And do you feel like your"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1527.15,"endTime":1534.2,"body":"generation is better at talking"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1527.15,"endTime":1534.2,"body":"about racism and inequality than"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1534.23,"endTime":1538.07,"body":"the kind of resistances that I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1534.23,"endTime":1538.07,"body":"think Geraldine and I have both"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1538.07,"endTime":1540.44,"body":"seen perhaps in older"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1538.07,"endTime":1540.44,"body":"generations?"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1540.98,"endTime":1545.54,"body":"Yeah. So I think"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1540.98,"endTime":1545.54,"body":"this generation is a very"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1545.54,"endTime":1550.94,"body":"tolerant generation. We've grown"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1545.54,"endTime":1550.94,"body":"up kind of seeing LGBTQ"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1550.94,"endTime":1555.41,"body":"movements be successful. We've"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1550.94,"endTime":1555.41,"body":"been through Black Lives Matter."},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1555.65,"endTime":1561.5,"body":"And so I think we're all quite"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1555.65,"endTime":1561.5,"body":"willing to learn. And I think we"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1561.5,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"all know that grassroots"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1561.5,"endTime":1566.09,"body":"movements can have a massive"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.18,"body":"impact. And that's quite"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1566.09,"endTime":1569.18,"body":"important that we know that"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1569.57,"endTime":1573.71,"body":"these sorts of movements can be"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1569.57,"endTime":1573.71,"body":"successful. I think at this"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1573.71,"endTime":1578.33,"body":"university, a lot of people have"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1573.71,"endTime":1578.33,"body":"an interest in politics, and"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1578.33,"endTime":1581.99,"body":"current social issues. So it's"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1578.33,"endTime":1581.99,"body":"been quite easy to actually"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1581.99,"endTime":1587.15,"body":"start these conversations about"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1581.99,"endTime":1587.15,"body":"kind of contentious, maybe,"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1587.54,"endTime":1591.35,"body":"issues. And even I was telling"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1587.54,"endTime":1591.35,"body":"people that I was doing this"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1591.35,"endTime":1596.81,"body":"podcast later today, people were"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1591.35,"endTime":1596.81,"body":"really interested. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1600.98,"body":"interesting, I'm studying in"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1600.98,"body":"Edinburgh – and Edinburgh also"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1600.98,"endTime":1605.27,"body":"has quite strong connections to"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1600.98,"endTime":1605.27,"body":"the slave trade. I haven't"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1605.27,"endTime":1611.12,"body":"really educated myself about the"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1605.27,"endTime":1611.12,"body":"impacts of the slave trade here."},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1611.15,"endTime":1615.83,"body":"But I'm ready to get involved in"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1611.15,"endTime":1615.83,"body":"that – if I can – as well. And"},{"speaker":"Jasmine Patel","startTime":1615.83,"endTime":1617.96,"body":"just building on my experiences."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1619.34,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"Thanks so much."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1619.34,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"It's good to have that really"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1621.44,"endTime":1627.35,"body":"hopeful positivity about the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1621.44,"endTime":1627.35,"body":"generation like you, Jasmine, so"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1627.35,"endTime":1631.94,"body":"young, and yet, so very self"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1627.35,"endTime":1631.94,"body":"reflexive. Geraldine, just final"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1632.21,"endTime":1636.35,"body":"question to you – Geraldine. I"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1632.21,"endTime":1636.35,"body":"know that you set up like us"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1640.7,"body":"black history group with Rebecca"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1636.35,"endTime":1640.7,"body":"– and she works as a social"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1640.7,"endTime":1645.35,"body":"worker with refugee groups and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1640.7,"endTime":1645.35,"body":"communities. And you also, your"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1645.35,"endTime":1650.6,"body":"own stories, as as coming to"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1645.35,"endTime":1650.6,"body":"Lancaster as a refugee. And one"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1650.6,"endTime":1654.26,"body":"thing I think that in my more"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1650.6,"endTime":1654.26,"body":"academic work – not that this"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1654.26,"endTime":1656.69,"body":"isn't my acadmic work – but of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1654.26,"endTime":1656.69,"body":"academic work that I do is try"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1656.69,"endTime":1661.19,"body":"and think about how histories of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1656.69,"endTime":1661.19,"body":"racism, and histories of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1661.19,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"subjugation, exploitation, play"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1661.19,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"out in ways that are very"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1665.57,"endTime":1669.44,"body":"similar – but in ways that are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1665.57,"endTime":1669.44,"body":"also changing. And one group, it"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1669.44,"endTime":1672.11,"body":"seems to me at the moment in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1669.44,"endTime":1672.11,"body":"Britain – who are the target of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1672.11,"endTime":1677.63,"body":"so much kind of social hatred,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1672.11,"endTime":1677.63,"body":"division, racism – are refugees."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1677.63,"endTime":1682.34,"body":"And I just wondered, you know,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1677.63,"endTime":1682.34,"body":"what your thoughts were about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1682.34,"endTime":1685.91,"body":"that in terms of how, as a Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1682.34,"endTime":1685.91,"body":"History group, we've focused on"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1685.91,"endTime":1689.72,"body":"specific histories, but actually"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1685.91,"endTime":1689.72,"body":"– we're talking about racism in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1689.72,"endTime":1693.14,"body":"all its forms as the centre of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1689.72,"endTime":1693.14,"body":"what we do."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1694.01,"endTime":1698.51,"body":"Yeah, it,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1694.01,"endTime":1698.51,"body":"witnessing how a country that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1698.54,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"welcomed me those many years"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1698.54,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"ago, and how we became a city of"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1706.82,"body":"sanctuary – that was something I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1706.82,"body":"was proud of. But to see the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1712.94,"body":"wider world, and the politics"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1706.82,"endTime":1712.94,"body":"happening around refugee camps"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1713.0,"endTime":1720.62,"body":"and the treatment, racism."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1713.0,"endTime":1720.62,"body":"Especially how if anything, is"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1720.62,"endTime":1724.01,"body":"to happen in Lancaster, you know"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1720.62,"endTime":1724.01,"body":"– they are the targeted group at"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1724.01,"endTime":1727.43,"body":"the moment. They are the ones to"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1724.01,"endTime":1727.43,"body":"blame, and it is the propaganda"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1727.43,"endTime":1731.66,"body":"– it's what they're sold, its"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1727.43,"endTime":1731.66,"body":"the papers that they read. Yet,"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1731.81,"endTime":1734.48,"body":"the refugees, I mean, you know –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1731.81,"endTime":1734.48,"body":"they bring a wealth of"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1734.51,"endTime":1738.8,"body":"experience and knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1734.51,"endTime":1738.8,"body":"culture. Lancaster has changed"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1738.8,"endTime":1742.79,"body":"so much in a positive way, in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1738.8,"endTime":1742.79,"body":"terms of diversity. When I came"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1742.79,"endTime":1746.84,"body":"here, we were one of the very"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1742.79,"endTime":1746.84,"body":"few Black families living in"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1746.84,"endTime":1751.76,"body":"Lancaster. And I walk into town"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1746.84,"endTime":1751.76,"body":"and this many faces of different"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1751.76,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"ethnicities and races, and it"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1751.76,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"shows progress for me – I think"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1760.55,"body":"personally, it feels like the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1760.55,"body":"city – this North West city –"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1760.79,"endTime":1763.82,"body":"its getting there. And because"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1760.79,"endTime":1763.82,"body":"we're embracing refugees – and I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"think we can lead by example."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1763.82,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"And you know, I'm proud of my"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1772.31,"body":"refugee status. I do always"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1772.31,"body":"start that – even though I have"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1772.31,"endTime":1777.17,"body":"no remnants of my accent, of"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1772.31,"endTime":1777.17,"body":"being born in South Sudan – I"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1777.17,"endTime":1780.95,"body":"will start off we say I was born"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1777.17,"endTime":1780.95,"body":"in South Sudan. I came here as a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1780.95,"endTime":1783.5,"body":"child refugee, and it's"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1780.95,"endTime":1783.5,"body":"opportunities that"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1783.5,"endTime":1785.66,"body":"Lancaster's... Lancaster has"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1783.5,"endTime":1785.66,"body":"really embraced us and like you"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1785.66,"endTime":1788.96,"body":"know that – what my sister said"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1785.66,"endTime":1788.96,"body":"like–  some of you red roses are"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1788.96,"endTime":1793.07,"body":"as Black as us, kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1788.96,"endTime":1793.07,"body":"It I think Lancaster is not a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1793.07,"endTime":1797.15,"body":"monolith now – in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1793.07,"endTime":1797.15,"body":"people you see – it's diverse, a"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1797.15,"endTime":1801.23,"body":"Lancastrian person – like the"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1797.15,"endTime":1801.23,"body":"Igbo boy with his broad dialect"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1801.23,"endTime":1805.85,"body":"accent –  can look like me. And"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1801.23,"endTime":1805.85,"body":"I think I always wear my red"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1805.85,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"rose as a badge of pride"},{"speaker":"Geraldine Onek","startTime":1805.85,"endTime":1808.55,"body":"actually"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1815.69,"endTime":1819.5,"body":"Geraldine Onek and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1815.69,"endTime":1819.5,"body":"Jasmine Patel. And you can read"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1819.5,"endTime":1822.71,"body":"more about the Lancaster Black"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1819.5,"endTime":1822.71,"body":"History group and the Slavery"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1822.71,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"Family Trees project through the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1822.71,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"links in our episode notes. It's"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1833.12,"body":"so good see a voluntary"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1833.12,"body":"community group achieve so much"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1833.12,"endTime":1837.35,"body":"so quickly – challenging and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1833.12,"endTime":1837.35,"body":"transforming understandings of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1837.35,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"the histories of slavery and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1837.35,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"colonialism. And drawing on"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1846.17,"body":"great public resources – such as"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1846.17,"body":"the digital databases produced"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1846.17,"endTime":1849.44,"body":"by the UCL in the form of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1846.17,"endTime":1849.44,"body":"legacies of British Slavery"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1849.44,"endTime":1854.0,"body":"project, the Slave Voyages"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1849.44,"endTime":1854.0,"body":"database and the Runaway Slaves"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1854.0,"endTime":1859.31,"body":"database – and using these"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1854.0,"endTime":1859.31,"body":"databases to do urgent forms of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1859.31,"endTime":1862.85,"body":"political education in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1859.31,"endTime":1862.85,"body":"communities. I've been"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1862.85,"endTime":1866.18,"body":"reflecting on all this in the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1862.85,"endTime":1866.18,"body":"context of my own work on"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1866.18,"endTime":1869.27,"body":"histories of racial"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1866.18,"endTime":1869.27,"body":"stigmatisation and resistance."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1869.6,"endTime":1874.07,"body":"And I want to foreground two"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1869.6,"endTime":1874.07,"body":"things. First, we can't separate"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1874.07,"endTime":1878.21,"body":"British history from histories"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1874.07,"endTime":1878.21,"body":"of slavery and colonialism. To"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1878.21,"endTime":1881.06,"body":"give you just one example,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1878.21,"endTime":1881.06,"body":"Lancashire's cotton mills are"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1881.09,"endTime":1885.29,"body":"absolutely entangled with the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1881.09,"endTime":1885.29,"body":"Lancashire owned slave factories"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1885.29,"endTime":1888.14,"body":"on the African coast and the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1885.29,"endTime":1888.14,"body":"Lancashire owned cotton"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1888.14,"endTime":1892.82,"body":"plantations. They're part of the"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1888.14,"endTime":1892.82,"body":"same global architecture of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1892.82,"endTime":1897.86,"body":"enclosure and exploitation."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1892.82,"endTime":1897.86,"body":"Second, our conversation today"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1897.86,"endTime":1901.37,"body":"highlights – at least for me –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1897.86,"endTime":1901.37,"body":"the importance of bringing"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1901.37,"endTime":1905.75,"body":"scholarship and academic"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1901.37,"endTime":1905.75,"body":"expertise into the community and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1905.78,"endTime":1909.8,"body":"into activism for social change"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1905.78,"endTime":1909.8,"body":"– of contesting stigma,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1909.8,"endTime":1914.72,"body":"politics, and social injustice –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1909.8,"endTime":1914.72,"body":"not only in journal articles, or"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1914.72,"endTime":1918.41,"body":"in conference papers, but out"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1914.72,"endTime":1918.41,"body":"there in the world beyond"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1918.44,"endTime":1919.1,"body":"academia."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1922.16,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"Next up, I'll be continuing in"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1922.16,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"the spirit of translating and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1930.08,"body":"speaking across research,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1930.08,"body":"professional expertise and"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1930.08,"endTime":1935.45,"body":"social activism. When I meet Dr."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1930.08,"endTime":1935.45,"body":"Andy Knox – a GP, public health"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1935.45,"endTime":1940.46,"body":"lead author and activist. We'll"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1935.45,"endTime":1940.46,"body":"be talking about how structural"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1940.46,"endTime":1945.68,"body":"problems – including"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1940.46,"endTime":1945.68,"body":"stigmatisation –make us unwell,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1951.02,"body":"and how we now stand at a point,"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1951.02,"body":"he describes as nothing short of"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1951.02,"endTime":1955.85,"body":"apocalyptic. A moment he says –"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1951.02,"endTime":1955.85,"body":"a revelation. It sounds"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1955.85,"endTime":1963.95,"body":"dramatic, and it is. My producer"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1955.85,"endTime":1963.95,"body":"was Alice Bloch, and the sound"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1963.95,"endTime":1968.45,"body":"engineer was Dave Crackles."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1963.95,"endTime":1968.45,"body":"Please remember to share us far"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1968.45,"endTime":1971.9,"body":"and wide including the episode"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1968.45,"endTime":1971.9,"body":"notes full of readings for each"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1971.9,"endTime":1976.1,"body":"show – because talking about"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1971.9,"endTime":1976.1,"body":"stigma is part of how we end it."},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1976.82,"endTime":1979.04,"body":"See you soon. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Imogen Tyler","startTime":1976.82,"endTime":1979.04,"body":"listening."}]}