11: Codependency in Breastfed Kids - Coping Skills, Calm Down Corners and Booby Monsters

After breastfeeding for months and years, independent play and sleep can sound like winning the lottery! 

Hearing that you are creating "codependency" in your child, and worrying that you have stopped your child from learning other ways to calm themselves down can feel really scary.  

But what is *really* happening?  Is it realistic to expect independence? Is your child breastfeeding actually setting them up for failure later in life? 

I'll share with you 4 different types of relationships that humans can have and which one you really want to foster in your child. 

Grab your free guide to say "No" to the feed while still saying "yes" to the need at  www.ownyourparentingstory.com/guide

Love this episode?!  Shoot me a DM over on Instagram @own.your.parenting.story and tell me all about it. <3

Transcript

[00:00:00] I missed a week of podcasting. I have not been feeling the greatest, and I was going to put up an interview, but just felt really half-hearted and I thought it would be better to wait a week and come back and be fresh and able to share with you. I wish I was a little bit more fresh than I am. I'm not gonna lie, I still have a headache, not feeling a hundred percent. I'm better. So [00:00:30] I wanted to talk today about codependency. I see this word being used a lot when we're talking about breastfeeding and toddler breastfeeding, and this idea that our child is codependent with us. And I think that even if you're very excited about toddler breastfeeding or full term weaning, you can feel this kind of like fear that maybe you're not allowing your child to develop [00:01:00] enough of their own coping skills and independence, their own ability to navigate challenges.

[00:01:07] And this comes up so, so much. Um, For me when I'm talking with clients and even other professionals who support toddlers and that kind of stuff. So I definitely felt it was important to address this. I want to share with you a few definitions as we get started, um, so that you can kind of like map out what [00:01:30] it is we're talking about so that we really can start on the same playing field, right?

[00:01:34] So that everybody's coming to this with the same vocabulary and the same understandings. So we have kinda. These two terms in the English. To describe relationships between different things. So we have, um, independent and dependent, so we can talk about these in math and science and relationships and all kinds of things.

[00:01:57] But essentially [00:02:00] dependent means relying on another for support and independent is not relying on someone or something else for support. And then, so we kind of have. Words in the English language. And then we have other words that we've used from sociology to describe relationships. So codependent is not really, um, it's not separate from the word dependent because dependent is just used in o other ways, but codependency is really a [00:02:30] theory, um, from sociology and psychology talking about.

[00:02:35] Unhealthy relationships. Relationships where there is excessive like emotional or psychological reliance and need on, uh, another person, right? So when we're talking about codependency, what we're really talking about is somebody who is, has lost their own identity and is like enmeshed in someone else's identity.

[00:02:59] And a lot [00:03:00] of times there's, you know, right. We can talk about addictions and all of these things when we talk about codependency. Um, but. We can, it gets used a lot in parenting, talking about young children, talking about babies. They're so codependent. Um, you know, they, they need you too much, right? And it can have this, this idea that your child relies on you too much.

[00:03:24] So let's talk about what the truth is here. The reality is when we look at the definition of [00:03:30] dependent, right, relying on another for support. Yes, young children in particular are incredibly dependent. Think about the tiny little fetus growing inside of the womb. It could not survive without. The mother's body, right?

[00:03:49] Without that human body that is growing in it is fully reliant. And if that baby is born prematurely, then it's going to need kind of an outside womb in order to [00:04:00] mature or it won't survive. Right? And then, That separation doesn't, or like it, it's not just a sudden stark separation where, oh, it's no, no, that's no longer needed.

[00:04:10] So now the baby is fully independent, not the case at all. I've sh, I'm sure I have shared this before, but a baby is born with only 25% of their brain developed, so they are absolutely reliant. Caregiver for support, right? They need to be fed, um, they need to [00:04:30] be cleaned, they need to be kept warm. All of those things.

[00:04:34] But that continues on. It doesn't just stop one day. Your brain doesn't finish developing until your mid twenties. So it's, it's important we need people, um, to support us when we're young children particularly. So yes, yes, yes, yes. Your child is dependent. There is nothing that you can do to make your child less.

[00:04:57] Dependent. Okay. It's, it's just a [00:05:00] biological fact that they are, well, I shouldn't say there's nothing you can do to make your child less dependent. That is, there are things you can do to make them less dependent on you sometimes. Um, but they will be dependent on. Things they will rely on other people and resources for support because they're simply not able to meet their needs on their own, um, all the time.

[00:05:21] For sure, for sure. So what is the, um, alternative to this dependence, right? We could look at [00:05:30] independence. So we don't wanna go into the codependent realm where your child, um, grows to lose their own identity and their own sense of self into another person. So they're so reliant on another person, um, that they don't, can't, don't feel like they exist when they're apart from that person.

[00:05:51] Like they need that person to feel good, to feel like they are okay. Um, but then there's independence, [00:06:00] and independence is not requiring or relying on someone or something else. It sounds good, and , particularly when you've been the mom that everyone has been relying on a little. Independence sounds really nice, but there are some drawbacks to straight up independence, right?

[00:06:18] When you are raising independent children, there's a simple reality that your child. Will never, no human is ever [00:06:30] fully self-sufficient. We are relational. Beings, we need other people in our lives. It's like we can look at the physiology, we can look at, um, you know, all of those pieces, but we, we need to have other people in our lives.

[00:06:47] Relationships are incredibly important to our survival as human beings. So not just for procreation purposes, but just for enrichment and enjoyment. Now, it doesn't mean that. [00:07:00] Lose ourselves and become, um, codependent, but raising a child who doesn't know how to ask for help when they need it, right? Who doesn't know how to trust other people, who doesn't know how to relate and have.

[00:07:16] Friendships and reach out for resources as well as even share their own resources with other people in a healthy way, that's problematic, right? So we have kind of created this picture of this dependent child [00:07:30] who needs a caregiver for survival, right? Or we have this codependent where it's like enmeshment, right?

[00:07:37] So like dependent is like, Child who is just not fully developed. So they just, they need a caregiver, right? They're dependent on that caregiver. That's where they're growing. You can think of that baby in the womb, right? And then we have this codependent where it's like enmeshment, like there's no separation between, um, the people in the relationship.

[00:07:57] And then we have independent where they're [00:08:00] fully separated, right? They're fully apart and separated. Not asking for support, not asking, not knowing how to share resources or reach out when they need it, or even have meaningful connections with other people, right? Like that . That's the stuff that makes life beautiful and great, right?

[00:08:16] I, I mean, at least in, in some ways there's certainly other things I love looking at a beautiful sunset or all of those things, but it's beautiful to make connections with other human beings. So, There is [00:08:30] another term that I would love to introduce at this point, and maybe you're aware of it, but that is interdependence.

[00:08:35] So interdependence is when we have these fully formed, or maybe not even fully formed , but we have these individuals, right, who have individual identities and they know those identities and then they come together in meaningful ways. So Dan Siegel talks about this, Dr. Dan Siegel, um, and he talks about it in the way.

[00:08:57] Using the terminology of integration, so [00:09:00] he. Healthy integration, the linkage of differentiated parts. So that might sound really technical. And if you're driving and you just tune down, you're like, what are you talking about, Jenna? You can imagine it. Um, like I think of it like a chain in a, in a. Uh, um, you know, like links in a chain, right?

[00:09:19] They're separate, they're separate pieces, but they're not on their own. They're linked together in meaningful ways, which means now that chain has a purpose. When [00:09:30] we've created these links together, they're stronger, they can accomplish things, right? A single link on its own is not as powerful, it's not as meaningful.

[00:09:38] But if we took all of that, those links, and we kind of melted them together and mishmashed them, then there's nothing we, we. It doesn't serve a purpose, right? Like it's, you can't use that chain for anything. Um, and you certainly can't pick apart those links and have any meaning out of those links, right?

[00:09:53] When those links are linked together, they don't have to be even, I mean, for the purposes of a strong chain, yes, you would [00:10:00] want, um, those links to be equally strong, but they could be different shapes. They can have different, um, colors. They, there can be meaningful differences between them. Then they can come together.

[00:10:12] So when we're talking about breastfeeding and parenting, how, what does this mean in our practical, you know, moving through life? A lot of times where the codependence kind of comes up is when we're talking about, um, children who are either really [00:10:30] clingy. And don't want to be separate from their parent or, um, children who are having like tantrums and big uh, emotions.

[00:10:40] And it can feel like breastfeeding is the only stool that you have in order to support that child. So let's talk about each of these separately. So let's talk about the clingy child. Here is the deal. y your clingy child is, um, [00:11:00] Looking for, there needs to be met by being close to you. So like I said, we're relational beings.

[00:11:06] That child has grown inside of a human and. Like biologically is driven to be attached to that human because that attachment, knowing that there is secure attachment, that the caregiver actually cares about them is how they can ensure their survival, right? They need to have somebody who loves them and who thinks the world of them and who [00:11:30] is willing to do difficult things and things that might even require some sacrifice in order for that child to survive, right?

[00:11:37] So it's really hardwired into them to stay close to that care. So as the child matures right and moves along, they become more and more able to hold onto the caregiver while they are apart. So Dr. Gordon Neufeld talks a lot about this and Dr. Deborah McNamara, [00:12:00] but it's this idea that, The child's independence, right, quote, quote, independence or separation from the parent happens over time and only as they are deeply, um, convinced that that parent will be there for them no matter what.

[00:12:20] So as that trust is built, A trust is built, but B, they're biologically and developmentally ready, right? Because our brains are very immature [00:12:30] and it takes time. So there's kind of two pieces happening. There's the development unfolding where they're actually able to do more and more things on their own, and so they actually require that caregiver assistance a little less over time.

[00:12:42] Over time, of course. And you can't rush that. You cannot rush development and every child's gonna have have that happen at their own rate. So you cannot compare one child to another. So just because one child is able to. Um, be happily apart from the parent [00:13:00] doesn't mean that another child will be at that same age.

[00:13:02] Um, you can't compare children in a classroom. Just see your child where they are at and what their needs are. Kind of put them into their own little, little vacuum. Put your blinders on and focus on that one child, right. Okay, so that's development. And then we're talking about this attachment and this security of knowing that that caregiver is going to be there for them no matter what that means they have to have that knowledge deep, deep inside of them.[00:13:30] 

[00:13:30] So when the caregiver gets frustrated with the child's clinginess, right, need to be close to them. That can be kind of alarming to the child and it puts some pressure on um, their belief that that parent or that caregiver will always be there for them, right? So it actually creates more clings. The child needs that deep, deep dependence to be so in them, right?

[00:13:59] That I [00:14:00] knowledge that that caregiver is going to be there no matter what. That it allows that child to explore more cuz they have this confidence. That they will be able to come back to this trusted caregiver. So when your child is clingy and needy, they actually don't need to be taught how to be independent.

[00:14:21] They need to trust. They need to trust that. You will be there for them no matter what. [00:14:30] They need to believe that you are crazy about them. . They need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you will be there for them. And as that confidence builds inside of them, then the need to test that will lessen. So a lot of times, I know Deborah McNamara talks about this, like this preemptive, um, care, right where you can preemptively kind of fill their cup [00:15:00] up preemptively, give them the knowledge that you are there for them and that you're crazy about them.

[00:15:06] Right? I'm not talking about going crazy and like just pushing connection when your child doesn't, isn't, isn't interested in it . But I am talking about the fact that sometimes our clingy kids, when we push away from them, we're actually making the problem worse. And it really does require that deep dependence for their brains to wire in a way that they know that you will always be there for.

[00:15:29] So that [00:15:30] they can go out and explore the world, um, which is what you hope and dream for your child, right? That they are going to, um, follow their dreams and explore new things and try things out and have these deep connections with other people. So it really comes from your connection with them first, and trusting that that deep dependence will become interdependence over.

[00:15:55] Right. Not just independence, but interdependence. It's actually is them [00:16:00] kind of bumping up against you and experiencing that relationship with you that they learn who they are. So, um, that was talking about clinginess. So let's talk about coping skills for tantrums and emotion regulation. So many times parents will come to me and say, the only way my child calms down is by breastfeeding.

[00:16:21] And then there can also be this idea of like, I have to teach them other ways to calm down . So let's bring that down a little bit, right? It can be this [00:16:30] idea that like, your child is codependent on you, um, because you're the only one who can calm them down when they're upset. So kids, when they experience an emotion, they experience that emotion very purely and intensely.

[00:16:43] I'm talking about young children here, like children under the age of five to seven ish. They tend to experience that emotion very purely, very intensely, and very big, and it. Their brain isn't integrated [00:17:00] enough for them to be able to use the parts of their brain to regulate, like use logic centers and all these different parts of their brain to regulate other parts of their brain.

[00:17:12] So their big emotions kind of hijack their brain and it's like all or nothing, right? They're like full in. And so this is where they require someone else to come and regulate them, um, which we call co-regulation. And a lot of times parents will think, [00:17:30] well, I have to teach my child calming techniques. I have to teach them how to breathe.

[00:17:34] I have to teach them how to, you know, do these things on their own because I won't always be with them. And yes and no. So a lot of times parents are trying to teach their child how to calm themselves down because the parent is actually struggling to calm themselves down. So the parent is actually now beginning to worry.

[00:17:57] My child will never be able to calm themselves down. And [00:18:00] if, if they're like this all the time, how am I supposed to get things done and I need to teach them how to do this without. But what's actually happening is that you are the one spiraling . You've kind of projected it onto your child a little bit, maybe , but you are the one who's spiraling.

[00:18:16] And maybe just, maybe it's you who needs some of those calming techniques, right? Do you use the deep breathing, whatever tool you wanna teach your child to use, ask yourself first. Do I actually use this? [00:18:30] And be really honest with your, with yourself, not do I know this tool is good, but do you actually use that tool when you need it?

[00:18:39] Or are you trying to put the responsibility on your child to be the one to calm themselves down so that you don't have to worry about calming yourself down? I know. Ouch. fingers pointed back at myself here, , I get it. I fully, fully understand. Because the reality is, is that what your child is [00:19:00] learning every single time that you calm them down or support them in calming down is not, it is they are not learning.

[00:19:08] I need my mother forever to calm me down. They're not learning. Every time I do this mom's gonna come. So I have to do this more often to get mom to come what they're actually learning. That was so darn scary. It was so scary to feel that so intensely, to feel like I don't have control over my body to feel this [00:19:30] heat and this, this burning and this this rage, and my muscles get tight and I'm crying and I feel like I can't stop.

[00:19:37] And then they learn, oh my goodness, I can stop. Their brain actually learns to regulate. It's it's wiring to feel that intensity and then calm down, even if it's through breastfeeding. So when you breastfeed, the child's nervous system is regulating and calming down. So even if [00:20:00] cognitively, logically, they didn't learn.

[00:20:02] Okay, when I get upset, I take three deep breaths. You. What their brain learned is when I get upset, I can calm down, and that is the most important lesson. So I actually do not believe that you can breastfeed your child too much, that you're somehow inhibiting them from learning other coping skills. I don't believe that at all.

[00:20:27] I do believe that. [00:20:30] Ourselves are maybe using breastfeeding as a way to not have to deal with big emotions, um, for us, for us, not for our child, but we're doing it because we're uncomfortable with feelings and so we just breastfeed them and we can't be with our own feelings. I absolutely believe that, but I do not believe that we can breastfeed our child too much and that they're not gaining coping skills from that.

[00:20:57] So it really comes back to [00:21:00] creating that safety within yourself to feel all of those feelings because when you do, your child is co-regulating with you all the time. All the time. It's not actually, co-regulation isn't something that you have to learn how to do. It's happening and your child is either co-regulating to your dysregulation or to your regulation , and it's very common.

[00:21:27] Me too. I'm saying this for myself. To not have [00:21:30] the self-awareness to even realize that you're in dysregulation, , and that you are starting to spiral. Um, but that is the first step because if you cannot regulate yourself, there is no calm down corner. There is no calm down, um, tool or sensory bin or, you know, stuffed animal that's going to be able to support your child because they're gonna be regulating to their attachment figure.

[00:21:56] So you really need to do that work inside of you. [00:22:00] First, or else you're going to be, for lack of a better word, trying to control your child. To not have an emotion and not have a feeling because it makes you uncomfortable. And it's really important that all of us as human beings are able to experience the full spectrum of emotions cuz that's life in full color, right?

[00:22:21] That's life in full color. That is. The beauty, that's the brilliance of life that's being fully alive, right? [00:22:30] We don't wanna numb ourselves to our emotions, but a lot of times we can do that. So, uh, like when we're trying to stop our child from feeling something, it really comes down to creating that safety within yourself in order to be able to be with all of your feelings first.

[00:22:46] And I know it sounds crazy, but I see it happen. Time and time again with my clients, whereas they begin to be with their own feelings and give themselves that [00:23:00] ability to regulate. The regulation comes with their child so beautifully, and they actually have the tools. They have beautiful tools that just come in on the fly in this, in the moment that support their child's needs.

[00:23:12] Exactly. Exactly the way that it needs to happen and is just a really beautiful, um, unfolding of a relationship, right? Because that parent, when you're able to, um, Meet your own needs. When you're able to be with your own feelings, then you're [00:23:30] able to actually be in the moment with your child and you'll be able to see what your child needs and it's all inside of you already and you'll be able to do it.

[00:23:37] I mean, I, I have endless stories of it and it's so amazing and I will share them. I'm going to have guests on, um, of clients who have had this experience. Cuz don't, don't just take it from me, we're gonna talk about it. It's happening. Um, but I wanted to really share that with you today. So your. Your child needing you because it's scary to be [00:24:00] apart from you or your child needing you because they're experiencing feelings that are so big and intense for them.

[00:24:05] It's just too much. That is not codependence, that is biologically normal dependence, and that dependence is going. Move into beautiful interdependence when your child has their own identity and is able to regulate themselves and from that place, able to ask for the support that they really [00:24:30] need and offer support to others in ways that.

[00:24:33] Don't devalue themselves right? In ways that don't cause burnout. If you are struggling to do that for yourself, I recommend starting with my Making Changes Guide, which you can get at ww dot own your parenting story.com/guide. Um, it's a communication guide. It's teaching you how to communicate with your child.

[00:24:56] So if there are times when. Don't want to [00:25:00] breastfeed or you're feeling overwhelmed. It will teach you how to support yourself so that you can support your child. So I really recommend grabbing that. Um, otherwise, I will see you um, next week at the next podcast.