What to Do When You Are Scared to Say Your Doubts Out Loud

If you are scared to say what you really think about faith, this is for you.

If you have been carrying doubts, questions, or frustration and wondering whether church can handle the truth, this episode meets that moment with honesty.

What young adults are really feeling when faith starts to feel shaky

Why church can feel unsafe when honesty seems costly

How belonging can start before everything feels settled

Tim McConnell shares an honest conversation designed to help people feel known, less alone, and invited into real community.

Next step: take one honest step toward belonging at First Pres: https://firstprescos.org/belong

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Hi, I'm Hannah Castle. Um, I'm not Liza, which are is kind of hard to fill in for Liza. You're not Liza? Uh no.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Come on. I got you sunglasses. Um I'm not Liza, but I'm super happy to be filling in for Liza because I've got some big questions that I'd like to hit you with today.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Wow. All right.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

I figured you could be the guy.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Thanks for stepping in.

unknown 0:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

The Light in Life Podcast. What episode are we on?

SPEAKER_04 0:33

74.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

74, and we've got Hannah as a guest today. Thank you, Hannah, for jumping in.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

It's isn't it fun what a day holds?

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

You had no idea you were getting a job.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Well, what does it say in our job description that it's like other duties as required or something like that? Yeah. Graphic design did not teach me this.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I was just telling somebody my very first day in ministry. I got ordained on on uh July 11th, 1999. And uh like the very first day that I was at that job, the first thing I did was a men's Bible study at 7:30 in the morning, like 35 men that I'd never met. And uh and then I had um I think a memorial service at like 10. So I went from that to a memorial service. After the memorial service was uh a pool party with middle schoolers, a pool party with where we played um football with a watermelon that was coated in Vaseline. Have you ever done that? And then after that, I got out and had a trustees meeting and then had a staff meeting. And um, and I went home and sat down on my couch and was like, wow, you never know what's gonna come in a day of ministry. That is whiplash. But I like it. You just never know what's gonna happen. So you didn't know you were gonna be here uh running the Light and Life podcast today. So thanks for doing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Yeah, well, I'd like to jump in because I've got lots to ask. Good. Um the first thing is we're kind of talking about this buzzword of deconstruction. Okay. You heard it?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

I have.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Yep, yep. Lots of people my age and then a little bit older that I surround myself with. It's this word that just keeps popping up.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

And I can say personally, I've never decided to deconstruct. Yeah, but I've sat alongside some friends who are deconstructing or have decided to, and there are some questions that they ask me, and ultimately I just want people to feel safe to ask questions.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Um I know that you all have talked about a lot that asking questions, doubting, that doesn't mean you're bad at faith or bad at your job of being a Christian. But it just means like maybe you're human. Maybe it's okay to ask.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah. I mean, how many questions do the disciples ask? How many questions do we see asked in the Bible? And how many unanswered things do people deal with as as believers and in the scriptures? I mean, characters in the scriptures that are fully faithful, you know. So it's it's so much to be expected that doubt is part of our walk of faith. In fact, you know, it faith is faith includes doubt. And so uh faith is is believing, and uh it's it includes that element of, well, I've got to commit myself to the belief. I have to commit myself to the belief because there's a little bit of, there's always a little bit of a gap. Um but if you don't raise those gaps or raise those doubts, then uh your your faith is actually kind of kind of go cold, it's gonna go plastic because it's not it's not really touching the world. And I think God intends for us. So what does Jesus want? He wants to be in a relationship with us in the middle of these questions and doubts and of these difficulties and growth points. And so if we were just not growing, not having any difficulties, not having any doubts, not experiencing any questions, um, how could Jesus be with us in in all of that? And if we're just not we would we would be totally static, just sitting in a room like a like a a plastic mannequin. Yeah. That's not faith. Yeah. Yeah, faith. So it includes, yeah, it absolutely includes doubt. And um, yeah, and I want to get into it. Um what does deconstructing mean? And um when you when you have a friend who's saying, okay, I'm I'm intentionally deconstructing, what is it really that they're doing?

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah, I was gonna see where you were at with that too. But I would say to deconstruct faith, you have to have it at first. Okay. Um so that would be someone that has claimed to have faith before or is currently holding faith, but doesn't know if those beliefs are their own, or maybe a generational belief that's been passed down, or um so someone who is picking apart this faith to see what stands for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Aaron Ross Powell I think that's right. I mean, I think and it it's a one thing to say about deconstruction is um it is a necessary phase for every believer. I mean, it and it's a necessary continuing action for every believer because we should be growing in our the way that we're gonna grow in our faith is to be sifting through ideas that we're receiving uh and because of new stimuli of new ideas or new challenges or new new moments in our life. Now I want to look at at my belief structure and I really want to be examining. I want to be examining what has just sort of come in uh thoughtlessly or unexamined into my life, and um what has been sort of carted in uh maybe from uh from a false uh notion that just drifted into my life? Um what have I been really hard and fast about that actually scripture is uh has got a lot of voices about? Um and the way that the gift that we have is we have the authority of the Word of God and we have the Holy Spirit operating within us. And so with word and spirit, we can go back to all these things and say, do I really believe that? Do I really think that's true? Do I really think he rose from the dead? Do I really think Jesus spoke about marriage? Do I really think Jesus cares for children? All do it what you know, and just asking all these questions again and asking the scriptures. So that kind of deconstruction is um is just a necessary part of faith. I do think sometimes the word is used, and what what you're actually talking about is walking away from the faith or intentionally deciding to turn your back on Christian community. And uh so that's where I it's kind of like you gotta figure out what is it really that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Yeah. Yeah, because I've had friends do both. Sure. And they say I'm deconstructing, so I don't know where exactly are you?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

How how can I push you lovingly, and then how can we hold a conversation and be not like boo and like totally make you flee.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

So it's kind of a do you think it's inappropriate to ask people where are you at, or how would you phrase some of those questions?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

That's a great question. Um, because I think when someone's having doubt, what can accompany that is shame. Like I'm feeling like I'm doing something wrong. I'm feeling like maybe I don't belong in this room anymore. Um, maybe I don't agree with what's being said up front at church or uh with in my my friend circle. And now I'm starting to feel shame, which is actually um is is actually not a helpful emotion, right? I mean, it's and it when what shame's gonna do is it's gonna it's gonna sort of come in and um and make you feel like uh you're not a good person, you're not worthy of conversation, you're not worthy of community. And shame is something that um honestly that I would just go ahead and say that the devil will use to pull you out of Christian community and isolate you and uh and sort of send you in a spiral of feeling worse and worse about yourself. And so, in that sort of instance, what you want in Christian community is openness and genuineness where deconstruction and reconstruction are happening in community all the time. Like tell me what you're doubting about, um, tell me what you're learning, where are you growing? Where are you questioning? Um, those things are are are united. And the best Christian friendships uh that I've had have room for that of just, man, can I just tell you that I really have a hard time with this right now? That I have a hard time with um with and here's the thing. I think Hannah, and you tell me if I'm wrong, I think most of the impetus behind deconstruction is not necessarily like here's this Christian doctrine that I'm suddenly wrestling with really hard. It's here's what Christians are representing out in the world, and I'm not sure I want to represent that.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Yes. What do you is that I feel that all of the time.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

All the time.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Um, especially working out of church. Um people will we'll be having a great conversation, and I know that we are hitting it off, whether it's someone on the airplane next to me, or even one of my kids in young life, and I finally maybe mention, uh yeah, I work out of church, uh-huh. Or, oh, I love God. Yeah. And seeing their reaction, I instantly am like, I shouldn't have said it, I just lost it all. Like, and so I could totally feel that that weird tension of I want God. Do I want the church? Or I want this really wonderful relationship with Jesus. Do I want all of that Christian stuff? Yeah. Because we all have different ideas of what a Christian is. Sometimes you'll be describing someone, you're like, they're Christian, that's a Christ-like woman. And the way you say it, you're like, oh, that's not good, or ooh, that's good. Um yeah. So what what would you say about wanting God if someone came to you and they're like, hey, I really love this God thing. That church thing though, I don't know. Those Christians in there, I don't know. They've caused a lot of hurt. I've seen them hurt people I love.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Or, you know, fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

How do you respond to something like that when somebody is at least trusting you enough to mention I love God?

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

I don't want the church thing though. What are how are you responding to that?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, I mean, I think if you've got a relationship with them, then you can start to ask, like, tell me the story. Tell me your story. And um, what I find in a lot of deconstructive conversations is um I agree with with probably most of what they're saying they don't like. Like, um, I just don't like a God who wants to send people to hell. Like, well, yeah, I don't I wouldn't like a God like that either. And that isn't, you know, and eventually you try to get to some room to say, I I don't think that's the character of God's heart. I mean, I think God is deeply lamenting that people wind up separated from him for for eternity and has done everything that he can to to bring you into love and and into relationship and into eternal life and has made deep and personal sacrifice to do it. And uh, or I don't, you know, I don't want to be, I just don't like a God that um that loves America and and hates other nations and and wants to see them perish. Like, oh my gosh, where did that come from? Like, yeah, I don't know a God like that. That's if someone told you that's how God is, I agree with you. Let's deconstruct that and then let's reconstruct. And um, you know, because if we're gonna take things apart, uh the uh you you also want to spend some time putting some things back together. Nobody wants to live a disintegrated life, like with all my thoughts are just taken apart and left on the table. Uh I I talk to people who go into uh training in theology or scripture training in the Bible, like real academic training in the Bible, and I always give the same talk. I say, this is like going to medical school. You go to med school, and at some point someone's going to say, Okay, walk into that room, and there's gonna be a human body on the table, and you're gonna take it apart. And you're like, oh my gosh, that's gonna be severe, you know, that's gonna be really hard. But you do that as a doctor and you take that body apart. No doctor would turn around and say, Well, now I know what a human being is, or now I know who that person is. Uh you'd say, now I know all the pieces of the human body. And then you ask, Well, why did you do that? Why, why did you do that? Well, I did that because I want to help human bodies to live and flourish, and I want to help people that I know by name to be healthy. Like, oh, that makes total sense. And sometimes you go into religious study or Bible study or theological study, or you go into deconstruction, you think, okay, my goal is to take this all apart. And once I take it all apart, I'll say, now I understand. Now I know, you know, these um, but the goal is not to have the scripture and your faith lying dead on a table all taken apart in pieces. Like the goal is to how do I live an integrated life? How do I find flourishing an understanding of who I am, who God is, and what my place is in the world, and put these things back together. So, you know, part of deconstruction is hey, where's the what are you building? What are you learning? What are you growing? What energizes you? What do you what do you think the world is all about? I mean, I I go back to um maybe some good questions to ask or just to go back to big worldview questions. Like, why would you say that we're here? You know? Uh what do you think is the main problem in the world? What is the big problem in the world? How do you think that problem could be solved? And how do you think we, you and I, as an individual, can play a part in solving it and just see, hey, okay, so what are we thinking? What are we thinking? How do we see the world and try to put some things back together?

SPEAKER_04 14:54

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Is that alright?

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Yeah, I feel good with that. I think it's okay to ask questions to a question. Right. And just be like, okay, let's find the answer together. Yeah. That's good. And then another thing that I've been pondering is how can the church respond in a safe way, um, emotionally safe at least. Um, and what are some good responses so that when someone who has been deconstructing can come in and they're in the process of reconstructing, what what are some good loving ways to respond to them? And and I mean the church has like a church body, but also like the church building, whatever comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah. I mean, the building is is tough. Because like you said earlier, um, someone says, Well, I'm deconstructing, I'm it's I'm experiencing church hurt. Um, well, I'd love to know what happened. Like tell me your story. What go ahead and talk to me about it. And you say, and maybe they're going to start uh dumping, you know, they're gonna start unloading, uh, and maybe they're going to, you know, need a lot of room and a lot of time. But that's okay. Just sit there and be a listener. And if it comes all the way to the end and all you've done is listen, um, can I can I listen to more of this story next time? Can we get back together and I want to hear more? And I've got questions and uh I just want to hear more about your story and what you experienced. Um, that's such a better place to be than trying to figure out what this word church means to that person because church is a big that's a big word. Yeah. It's representing so much, it's carrying so much cargo. And you don't know what cargo it's carrying. Like for some people, they think of a lot of sweet times and uh growing up in a sweet community that was smiling and encouraging, but but you never heard really anything about a personal relationship with Christ. Others are thinking about a church that there was a dynamic, central leader who was constantly representing virtue for everyone in the community and was suddenly arrested out behind a mall, you know? And or um when you got closer to uh someone who was in leadership up front, the closer you got, the more dangerous it felt, and the more, and the less that person seemed like the same person who was up on stage or something like that. Uh or it could even be people who, hey, I worked, I I had a job for a church and it didn't work for me. And uh and at the end, my supervisor said, You have to go do something else. You have to go figure out another job to do because this isn't working. Like, that's a different, that's a totally different story, that's a totally different side of church. And and um, so you don't have any idea what cargo is being carried in that word church, and it can be a truckload. But what you can ask is just tell me your story. You know, what what happened to you and and uh tell me how it has impacted you and what are you thinking about it. And um, I think that's the best way to make space for that that to happen in relationship.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Yeah, I guess that's most conversations and most relationships is it it can only go well if you're willing to listen. Yeah. So I think that that helps me take this huge I wanna be safe, I wanna feel comfortable for people around me. I think that helps simplify it where I'm like, oh no, I'm a good listener.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

I can listen about some teenage girl's boy drama, then I can listen to someone else who has gone through real things. And yeah, that's a good tool.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

And I think they might be pinning up a lot of different emotions and experiences up on that word church, like they're throwing a lot of cargo in that truck, and um and maybe not all of it b really belongs there, or yeah, you know, but yeah, to to think about something sort of external like church, this big thing, and say, I'm experiencing church hurt, that just means as many different things as the people that you'll meet. So to sit down and say, can tell me your story, tell me, you know, what happened to you, and and then, you know, I lead a church, you work for a church. How can our church be better at creating those individual loving contact points or be a place where that really happens and and is real? And so I just ask you, like, when when have you felt in a church experience like um or a Christian community experience that this feels like a place where I could really ask good questions and and that would be fine, or I could express my story, tell my story, and that would be valued.

SPEAKER_04 20:05

Hmm. I think the first one comes to mind is I was in an organized dinner group. Kind of like a small group or a life group. There's so many names that churches give these things. But I was in an organized dinner group and there was nothing prompted. We were just supposed to come and have dinner together.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

And I showed up, and all of these people were people I'd never met in my church, and then also people that kind of covered all the bases. Like we had a single woman who's been single for 75 years, then we've got the married couple that seem like they're still best friends, and then we've got, you know, all the things.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

And I was very clearly filling my role where everyone had their role, and I was also this distinct person. And at first I was watching them interact with each other, and I was like, wow, they've been doing this for a long time. This Christian thing, they've got it down.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

And the faith thing, they are they have the right answers.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Okay. And then Were you a new believer at the time?

SPEAKER_04 21:17

No.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

But this was a new community for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

And they were so with it.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

And I was like, okay, maybe I should request a new group, just observing. But then one of them like turned over and realized I wasn't in the conversation and just asked, like, Hannah, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

And then my heart skipped because I was like, What do I think?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

And then one of the other ladies was like, And girl, don't give us a fake answer. And then I was like, Oh, okay, I can be honest with you guys. And they were just curious. They didn't they haven't talked to a 26 year old woman in a while. They were ready to hear what I had to say. Nice because it could help them love Different generations. So I think that is the first thing that comes to mind where I was like, wow, I feel really loved and protected almost and comfortable in this obviously Christian conversation in place. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

And do you if you come into a large environment like a worship environment, does that feel like a heart skip kind of a place or a a place where safety is in question?

SPEAKER_04 22:29

I think it definitely depends which environment. Okay. Um my home church, when I was in high school, it'sy bitsy. It was held in a conference room and just had folding chairs. And so I feel really comfortable there. And I know other people would be like, wow, all eyes were on you, they know your name.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

And so I think when I step into a really big auditorium or worship space, sometimes I could feel comfortable if I go into like my little invisible mode, high-on-the-wall introvert, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

But then I would feel so uncomfortable if you and I were doing this on a stage right now. Oh, sure. Me too. I can't give you an honest answer.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, I hope nobody's listening to this please.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

No, actually we do. Actually, we do. But yeah, I don't know. I think I'm getting more and more comfortable, and the only way that I'm getting more comfortable with asking myself questions and also asking God questions and people around me questions is just kind of it's like a muscle.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

And then also knowing it's not bad, knowing it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

As long as I'm surrounding myself with people that are also willing to hear me out and also tell me when I'm being a little crazy and spiraling out and being like, okay, can we rein you back in for a second?

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Okay, my last thing.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

What resources would you give to someone or at least recommend looking at if someone said, I've been deconstructing and I just keep deconstructing. I've not yet started to build.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Build it back up. Yeah. That's great. Um what when you say deconstructing, what do you think they're taking apart? What are they taking apart?

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Maybe their church experience, their faith.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Their beliefs.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

So really right down to things like um, does God exist?

SPEAKER_04 24:29

Why does he do this? Okay. Why does he allow this to happen? Suffering. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

All those good things.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Um okay. Yeah, because there's there's as I say, it's sort of like I want to get in there. There's such good books. Um I really like there's a book, it's probably feels a little old now, but uh by Francis Schaefer called The God Who Is There. And uh Francis Schaefer ran the Labris centers in Switzerland. And so his ministry, he and his wife, uh all they did was they went to Switzerland and they I don't know how this happened, I I don't know the story really, but they wound up at this retreat center in Switzerland and they're just living there and running it, and they're just saying, if you are hiking across Europe, deconstructing your faith, they didn't really call it that at that time, but you're like figuring it out, figuring out who you are. Like I'm gonna go find myself was like the big language back in the 80s and 90s and stuff like that. So if you're gonna go find yourself in Europe, uh you can come stay here. And here's what here's the thing: you're gonna come, uh we're going to have, you're gonna have to do chores, and that's how you like pay for being here, because we're working as a community together, and then we're gonna have dinner together, and after dinner, we're just gonna sit on the the patio on the deck, and you can ask uh Francis Schaefer anything you want. And he will just sit with you and listen to your story and answer questions for you, and and that's that's Libris. That's what the Libris Center is. And so these young adults would just come. A good friend of mine went and did it for a week, and um, I mean, it just you'd work there and and um and then in the nighttime you'd have dinner together and you'd just ask questions. And that's it. And um, and he wrote a book called The God Who Is There. A lot of those questions and answers and things kind of um uh piled up together so you can sort of experience it without being there. I think it's a great book. Uh another one is uh Tim Keller, uh The Reason for God. Have you ever heard of that? So Tim Keller he planted a church in 1989 in New York City, and they said at that time, you can't plant a church in New York City, there's no nobody's gonna listen to you. Like New York, it's too sophisticated, people are they're cynical, they're they don't believe in the Bible, they don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead, they're they don't they don't really need God. Uh churches go to New York City to die. And so he started this church called Redeemer Church, Redeemer Presbyterian Church, and um they started meeting at Hunter College in an auditorium after they got a bunch of people together, but it just grew and grew and grew and grew and grew. And a big part of it was that Keller was a great listener. So he would go and listen to people's questions about um, why does God let bad things happen to good people? Are you sure that the Bible is authoritative? Why? Um isn't God a misogynist? Doesn't God hate gay people? Um d doesn't God want to uh make me miserable? Um, doesn't the church just want my money? And um he would just listen to these things. And the the gift that he had was to never say, that's a stupid question, you know? Because that's where it ends. I mean, that's where that's where it really the damage is done, is someone who says, Look, if that's what you're asking, you don't belong here. Uh he would always say, I can understand why you're asking that question. In fact, oftentimes he would take a question and go study it in more depth so he could come back to them and say, almost like, you know, your question is good, but you know what's a really good question is this. Like he would make it bigger, you know, like the question is even bigger than that. And then he would from there uh build a response and and give an answer. And so each of the chapters of that book, Reason for God, is his experience of doing that in New York. And so it's just some wonderful, thoughtful answers to some of these big questions. And I just think the worst thing about deconstructing is if you use that as an excuse to just divorce yourself from Christian community. If you're the thing about an unhealthy doubt is something that we use actually to build ourselves up in pride and create a wedge of superiority and um and drive ourselves out of Christian community and cynically away from God and away from other Christians. And we do that in order probably to pursue uh some desire or interest that we have that's that's compelling us to just want to go be air quotes here, free. And um that that's just uh that's kind of a toxic cycle that's gonna hurt in the end. And so to get in there with a friend and be like, what are you doing, man? Um you know, what do you really what do you really believe? Tell me. Tell me your story. What have what what is church hurt? What have you experienced? And just listen, listen, listen, and God will provide an answer, or or the answer will just be you saying as a as a sister in Christ, Well, you're my friend, and I don't want to give that up, and I'm never gonna give that up. You can tell me anything, and I'm gonna be right here with you. Can we do this again next week? Can we meet again next month? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Hmm. Special. I want friendships like that. I want all my friends to be that way. I think that'll be my goal.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Those are good words.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

And I think God can help us to do that. The Lord can help us to have that kind of love and and because the thing about Jesus is that he was for us while we were still against him. He just has a way of doing that, right? Yeah. Like while we were yet his enemies, Christ died for us. So while we were still sort of shaking our fist at him, he knew how to he how to show up and be for us. And so if he can do that in us, in our friendships, with people that are saying, I'm against God, I'm against the church, I'm against you, you're a Christian. Um, and still be, well, I'm for you. I mean, I'm on your side. I want you to live, I want you to have love and flourishing and a joyful life, and I'm not letting go of you. Um, that's a beautiful place to be as a, I think, in the as a Christian friend of someone who's deconstructing.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

I think so too. Well, thank you. Thanks for getting getting into the nitty-gritty. Yeah. Being weirded out by all the buzzword questions because they've been thrown around and I don't know what any of them mean. And yeah. So thanks. Thank you. Would you say a good challenge for I don't know, myself or anyone who's listening, maybe a good challenge would be to put yourself in that vulnerable situation and ask a question. Um but like a real question of what do I believe about fill in the blank? Um maybe just to practice that muscle, or what would you say a good challenge would be?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

I think a good challenge for someone who is deconstructing is to put away the buzzwords and start to ask, what do I believe about the main questions of life? Where did I come from? Why am I here? Uh, what's the chief problem in the world and how might it be fixed? And start to just think, well, what really do I think about the world? And um, and keep keep your heart open towards God. He loves you. He's not, he's not wringing his hands or desperate or spinning out an anxiety that you have questions. Just watch Jesus deal with his disciples. And he's he's just he's ready for those questions. We're expected to have questions. That's how faith grows. And so um don't think that you have been um that you have have been uh shut out of God's love because you have questions. And then a challenge for a Christian who's walking with a friend who's deconstructing is hold on and don't ask questions about these big buzzwords. Yeah. Ask questions about someone's life. I care about this relationship, I care about you, and I'm holding on to you.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Beautiful. Be curious. That's what I'm taking away. Is to be curious and um to remember that the people that are taking these huge questions to God and maybe to you, just narrow them down. You're talking to a person, and that's all you have to do is just look at your friend and look at the person and listen. Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Well, thanks for being here, everybody. And Hannah, thanks for filling in for Eliza. You did an awesome job. Sure. And pleasure. Thanks for listening to the Light in Life Podcast.