The How To Film Weddings Show

Why Gear Might Be Killing Your Creativity Ft Velvet x Vows

Jaired Sullivan

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In this episode of How To Film Weddings, I sit down with August from Velvet & Vows to talk about the evolution every filmmaker goes through—from chasing gear and cinematic perfection to simplifying your process and focusing on what actually matters. We unpack solo shooting, creative burnout, imitation vs originality, and how to create wedding films that feel honest, intentional, and true to you.

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speaker-0: Maturing as a wedding filmmaker is realizing that the problem isn't that you need more gear. It's that you have way too much to think about. Too many choices to make, too much distractions, way too much pressure to look cinematic, and not enough trust in yourself. Because more gear will not actually make you a better filmmaker. It might just be the thing that's keeping you from becoming one. Today I'm joined by August with Velvet in Valz, and we talk about simplifying your camera setup, trusting your instincts. filming solo versus with second shooters, and learning how to create work that feels honest, intentional, and true to you. This is the How to Film Wedding Show. August, welcome to the How to Film Wedding Show, take two. Stoked to have you here, man. For those listening, tell us who you are and how you got caught up into this wild world of wedding filmmaking. Yeah.

speaker-1: Well, I'm Augie or August and really like I've I've kind of started with the you could say that this whole passion for creative and impacted people started way back in like fifth grade when I started music that was like drumming from there, it kind of progressed to playing more involved in like my church stuff like that. And it was. Probably like 20, I don't know, 2014 is when I kind of started getting involved in the wedding industry. I was actually in high school at this point still. And I got involved with a DJ company and started DJing weddings. I had this like need to leave some sort of lasting impact instead of like, hey, let me show up for a few hours and then leave and never talk to you guys again. And so. Yeah, it just so happened there was an opportunity that opened up. I had had some experience with cameras and stuff like that, kind of growing up throughout high school and stuff too. But a few years later down the line, I was DJing full time, getting really burnt out, kind of moved into a creative role at my church, which kind of then bridge the gap between I'm already in the wedding industry. And then like my day job, I'm already doing like, you know, camera stuff. So let's just do both and see what happens. ⁓ And that's really kind of what got me into wedding filmmaking and photography as well. ⁓ And so, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of little like little trails to the side of like, hey, maybe I'll try this. Maybe I'll try that. I got involved in like life insurance at one point in time. But ultimately, like nothing was ever as like rewarding to me as, you know, actually capturing people's stories and getting to retell that.

speaker-0: It is weird how just life leads us down so many different paths. And, you know, we usually accidentally stumble into the world of weddings. you know, for like me, my story, I was a waiter and then I went to work for my dad. And then I just like, you know, kind of fell into it. And yeah, I loved I loved hearing your story. And how long have you been filming weddings again?

speaker-1: So officially, I filmed my first wedding in like 2017, 2018-ish. So it's been quite some time. And then, yeah, I've been in the wedding world industry since like 2014.

speaker-0: after like 10 years of weddings, what's something that you believed like early on that you've like just completely changed your mind about?

speaker-1: Yeah, my biggest belief that shifted is quality is everything. Like I thought if I showed up to a wedding with like the biggest cinematic camera rig and like all the gimbals and tripods and, you know, 20 different camera angles, like I thought that would be what people want. And now I've learned to like simplify my setup. still it's still like a rigged out camera, but it works for me, you know, to get the to tell the story the best. Right. And so I've simplified it down to be more like useful, an extension of my mind, my creative mind, and really just focused on being present and capturing moments. And that has really changed the game for me to really just be in tune with like, what's the couple's preferences? What's like beneath the surface past like the cool shots I see on Instagram? What's the actual feeling? what does a shot mean to them? And so it's kind of like shifting my perspective away from like, what's the coolest thing I can capture and do that kind of itch that creative scratch ⁓ to what's the reason I'm doing this for anyways and focusing on itching that scratch instead.

speaker-0: Yeah, so many great things to unpack with that statement right there. The first thing is when it comes to gear and the mindset around gear. And it's so easy for like beginners like I remember my first few years, I was such a gear head like I just needed the latest and greatest thing. I needed every new camera that came out. I stayed broke. I never made any money doing that. But and sure, it was fun having all these new toys. But yeah, one word that you said that stuck out was just having tools that are useful. instead of feeling this intense impulse to have just everything, all the latest and greatest toys that just create overwhelm and ⁓ indecision on wedding day. I remember when I had all the tools of the trade. I had a Movi M5 Gimbal, which I shouldn't have ever bought for weddings, to be honest with you. I had the sliders, the Edelkrone sliders. I had... cinema cameras, C100, C200s, just all the things, all the things, every lens known to man. And I was just like looking at all my gear. I'm just like, what do I use? I don't even know. I don't even know what I want to pick. And that was just because it was there was just too many choices to make. And so when you strip all that down and you just like keep it minimal, like that's where your creativity is unlocked, in my opinion. ⁓ because I went handheld like several years ago and it just like transformed like my process, like my films instead of just like stressing out over like, do I use the 70 to 100 or do I do I switch to like the 35 prime? Like what lens is going to be the best in this situation? And like just like letting go of like trying to find the best path forward and just like you said, just using gear that is useful. And I will say that does come over with like that does come to you over time because like you'll start recognizing like, OK, the 24 to 70 unmatched all day. I can just like rock this lens. No problem. I don't have to switch or like, hey, 50 millimeter gives me those buttery like depth of field that Bokeh is just so nice. So I'm just going to use the 50 all day. Like whatever it is, like you find your rhythm, you find your process like in the action of it all. And so. I just unfortunately had to go through all those turbulent years of indecision and buying gear and wasting money to realize that less really is more. You know, there's only two certainties in life. Death and creative burnout. And while I can't provide a solution to the first one, I can provide a solution to the second one. And that is no other than the official editing partner of How to Film Weddings, Uncut Gems. Uncut Gems is my tried and true tested video editing solution for wedding filmmakers that can help you kick burnout, kick backlog in the face, give you time back in your business and turn your raw footage into some absolute gems. And they are responsible for some of my most viral wedding videos on the channel. They continue to save me time and time again. And I know if you just give outsourcing a chance, they can do the same for you. So if you're interested in learning more about Uncut Gems, I will have their link down in the description below and They have been kind enough to offer you guys 60 % off on your first edit. So if you use code HTFW at checkout, you can grab that discount, test them out for yourself, see if they could be a good solution for you and your business, especially during backlog. You just need a little bit of that pressure taken off of your plate. I highly recommend.

speaker-1: 100 % and it's just more fun too. Like I enjoy challenging myself for whatever reason it is. I think just a way that I like to keep the creativity alive and that passion alive because it can get a little tedious sometimes, right? You're shooting a wedding, you know, generally they're all different, but they kind of can feel the same sometimes. And so how do you, you know, keep that interesting to yourself? ⁓ I like to get, you know, new cheap lenses every once in a while. So I'll, always shoot on a Tamron 35 to 150. That's like my go-to. I swear by that lens. ⁓ but I was like, Hey, let me try out like an 85 one four from like Siri or, ⁓ you know, I have a couple other primes from Sony that I usually use just on the photography side. ⁓ let me challenge myself and try that for a reception and see what happens like during a dance too. ⁓ Or like going like full cinema glass. have a set of like anamorphics that I use for some commercial projects that I don't use a lot for weddings, but like just messing with those sometimes, you ⁓ And yeah, I mean, it's I ultimately find myself returning back to, know, what worked initially for me, not for any reason other than that's just less distracting. It's easiest for me to get a good product. But it's just I always come back super refreshed ⁓ and like. on this new creative high, guess. so, yeah, like it's a necessary part of just maturing as a creative, whether it's photography or filmmaker is kind of going through that, unfortunately, gear acquisition syndrome, and then kind of like chilling out, you know, a little bit and, you know, focusing on more like, hey, this is a business, this is part of my livelihood. How can I actually focus on like operating and nurturing that rather than You know, trying to have everything I need and having fun while doing it, you know. So yeah, it's super cool. Super cool conversation for sure.

speaker-0: ⁓ absolutely. And another thing you said was just like the fact of being intentional is is so important. I think that's just something that we we tend to overthink or we just kind of lose the plot sometimes when it comes to weddings, because we're so like hyper focused on whether it's social media or our gear or ⁓ just in our heads in general, which is a bad habit of mine on wedding day. But being intentional, but also like don't like limit the curiosity or, you know, like in experimenting with new tools, like not to say like you can't go out and get like some anamorphics to test out for a wedding. I think it's like super cool. Like I definitely want to like film more on some anamorphics and experiment and just find like a new way. Like you said, the word refreshed, like it is like refreshing when like, let's say you've been filming three years with. the 35 to 150 or the 24 to 70. And then you're like, all right, I need to mix it up because I just feel like I've I've run into a ceiling with what I have now. Not saying you have to buy a new camera or anything like that, but like new glass, I feel like offers so much like more like perspective or like avenues of creativity than like a new camera. And like even like I was using recently in the last year or so I've been instead of like the nifty 50 or the Sony like 1.2 which is beautiful lenses the 50 millimeter I have been using the Helios vintage yeah for receptions and I I just like don't see any other world without like a 40 like the Helios like 44 for like dancing it's so nice and just the characteristic that you get with that lens is it's so gorgeous. And so, but I wouldn't have known that if I didn't, you know, experiment or, you know, look at new ways to create or what can I add to my films that could like create this distinction or like really bring out like a different feeling like versus like the same old, you know, clinical look that you get oftentimes with the ⁓ contemporary lenses. so, yeah, I could talk, I could talk gear all day for sure. I love talking about gear. ⁓ And just, yeah, like you framed it as just being intentional, but also experimenting so that you can be refreshed ⁓ in the creative process, I think is really important.

speaker-1: Yeah. And just, guess, little tiny thing to tag on there too is like, think with you talking about the Helios, it made me think of like opportunity. Like you're actually inviting yourself more opportunities to even just further that creative perspective a little bit more from what you might get from like a standard zoom lens or something like that. Like, because I use the 50 1.2 for receptions all the time. And it's just, it gives me this little bit more feeling that like like when you're viewing it, like I feel more present in the moment when I'm using the 50. I don't know if it's because it's kind of similar to like the the human eye focal length, I guess. But like, I just feel like it's a really natural looking lens and also low light at receptions. I try to use the least amount of added like spotlights as possible. Sometimes I won't even use it. Right. Because I really want to capture the natural feeling. And so having the low light. helps a lot there, capabilities of that lens. so, yeah, I totally agree. I think the opportunities that come from challenging yourself is massive. And it's almost just something we owe our couples and clients is like, we owe it to them to continually be challenging ourselves and growing in our craft too.

speaker-0: 100%. Absolutely. Now, are you a solo? Do you film weddings by yourself or do you usually have like a secondary with you?

speaker-1: Yeah, so Velvet and Val is my business. We are a team-based company, but really what that is is like, I just have a lot of really good friends that I am inspired by and we'll book ⁓ team weddings and I'll contract them out for those sometimes. But majority, it comes to my own weddings that I'm taking, a lot of the times I'm alone for video or for photography. Sometimes both, but most of the time it's just one or the other. But a lot of times I'm alone and then I will have a second shooter every once in a while. But I think I prefer solo shooting personally. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, let's unpack that for a second, because I have recently been filming by myself more and more. yeah, I enjoy it as well. The only downfall, obviously, is like you don't really have that creative buddy to like, you know, connect with. Not saying photographers aren't, you know, ⁓ creative buddies that you can connect with because you certainly can, but it's just different. They're a photo world. We're a video world. Like we need someone that we can like, you know, just yell out all the terminology and have our own little cryptic conversations with on wedding day. ⁓ But yeah, I have been really enjoying solo ⁓ filming lately because it's just... I don't know. It's almost like more rewarding at the end of the day. Like when I come home, I'm just like, man, I had all of my angles down, locked in, just like I was like able to be super creative. I wasn't worried about my second or if they were positioned correctly, did they remember to press record on their angle? ⁓ So I guess in a way it just kind of removed a lot of the, I guess, The right word I'm trying to say is like, not saying second shooters are burdens, they're not burdens, but they do take up space in your head sometimes when you're trying to put on this director hat. ⁓ When you already play so many roles on wedding day, so it's like the more like you can just like maneuver and navigate freely without worrying about managing so many other things, I think really does unlock a creativity as well. ⁓ So yeah, I love to unpack your thought on solo filming. Has there ever been wedding days where you've completely missed the mark? What's the strat with solo filming to make it really go well?

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, it's just really knowing like, what's the priorities of the couple and the preferences they have. And then like the photographer as well. Like if I'm going to be fully solo shooting video on my end, I want to go into the day having full expectations of like, this is what I'm going to be capturing. These are the spots like I'm not living and dying by my schedule or by a map of the venue or anything like that. But I just want to know. I want to know beforehand so I'm not scrambling to set up cameras last minute or anything like that. And then with the photographer, just like immediately connecting and being like, hey, I'm on your side. I'm on your team. Let's do this together. Let's have an awesome day. I want to be your biggest fan today. Like I want to follow you on Instagram. I want to get to know you. I want to like hype you up when I see like the back of your camera screen and like stuff like that. Because it just makes the day so much easier and more fun too, you know? I'm not having to work around that. ⁓ and so that's kind of like my, my, my goal was solo shooting. I prefer it more, not for any, any problem with having a second shooter. mean, obviously it's super helpful getting different perspectives when it comes to the edit and storytelling. Right. But, I, I'm just a massive fan of just being present. I want to picture myself as like part of the wedding party almost. ⁓ when I go to a wedding day and it's just easier when I'm just, when it's just me and I can just fully focus on like, how can I be these guys' best friends for the day? And you know, how can I capture their wedding day from my perspective and my experience? ⁓ You know, instead of just the, you know, corner of the room, documenting the documentary and documenting the actual like moments that are happening, right? ⁓ And so yeah, that's kind of just. why I prefer solo shooting, like, yeah, either way, like I'm a big team player. So definitely love having a second along too.

speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where like second shooters aren't necessarily a need to have, they're nice to have. And like, it's great to have like just that camaraderie and ⁓ creative partner on wedding day to just connect with. ⁓ But then there's just so many variables that in my opinion just like really go into finding the best second shooter? Are they like also a team player? Are they also they have a great personality? Are they going to mesh well with like your brand? Because in a way they're representing you and your and your business. And I struggled with that early on. I had to go through so many people. just like, gosh, like I don't really even want to deal with this. I'd rather just film solo. But like in my head, I just I've. felt like this was something I had to have. Like this was what couples wanted. They want to videographers, but really they just want a good video. They just want someone that's gonna like treat their day with the same care and attention as like a family member would. ⁓ And someone that just really like cares deeply about the craft and about preserving their day. ⁓ They don't really care necessarily about like, do you shoot 4K? Do you shoot? Raw, do you have a second shooter? Are you using the latest and greatest drone technology? Like all the like, you know, things that we tend to geek out about aren't as important to the couple. They just they just want something that they're going to be able to look back on and be fully transported by. And how you achieve that goal, you know, that's what we can nerd out about. Right. But like it's not necessarily impacted by. having a second or not. And I might have some of the purists out there be like, no, you have to have a second shooter. You have to have all the angles and you can't be in multiple places at once. And while those things, are true. ⁓ I think a second shooter is, is great when it's required. I think there are certain things. There's like a order of events, like a checklist, so to speak, of things that really matter when it comes to deciding on whether or not a second is needed. ⁓ For me, a big part of that is if there is multiple locations on like this wedding day specifically, like if we're starting at a hotel and then we're going to a chapel and then we're going to a ⁓ reception venue, that's three different locations. Okay, yep, I might need a second to be with the guys transitioning to the chapel and then transition to reception so they capture details. So. If there's multiple locations, yes. If the photographer is also going to have multiple people, probably a yes. Just so that way you can navigate the day in a way that's less chaotic. ⁓ Now, I still have filmed a wedding day solo when the photographer had three people there, plus a content creator. So we had a lot of chefs in the kitchen, but I was still able to create a beautiful end product just because I've become so custom to the flow of a wedding day. Like I know the choreography at this point where I can just navigate the madness. I know when to, ⁓ is pure at a deaf dance move. don't know why that word just came to my mind, but pure a pure pure ret. I don't know if that's a dance move out there. I I'm probably just making a fool of myself. I need to stop with the dance terminology. I don't know much about it, but anyway, there just needs to, everything really needs to fall into place when it comes to deciding on whether or not to get a second or not. in my opinion.

speaker-1: 100%. I agree. A lot of times I'm asking the couple, hey, how many hours did you book the photographer for? Do they have a first or second to first and second? Because then it just makes sense logistically. If they're going to be splitting things up, then you should probably split things up too. just makes sense.

speaker-0: It just makes sense. And I mean, don't like put yourself into a position where you're going to be stressed out at the wedding. Like just because you're like, I think I can do it. I think I can make it work. Like if there's again, so many different hoops that you have to kind of jump through, make it easier on yourself and just hire someone. that's That's just been my philosophy with it. But second shooters are great for capturing creative angles while you focus on the main. You get all of the main moments, but then have a second be like, hey, I want you to get really creative here. If you find a spot that looks really nice, maybe some defocus foreground, maybe you can utilize some frame blocking, shoot through a window or use a mirror, some reflections, whatever it is, ⁓ that's really where you can kind of add that variety. within the edit. ⁓ not diminishing the value of second shooters, but ⁓ yeah, I think there is a time and a place for sure. Yeah. So when you are like watching your work back, and I don't know if you do watch your old wedding films, I've tried to stop myself from watching my old wedding films, but I feel like it is good to watch your work from time to time and see how it's grown and evolved. ⁓ Have you noticed like any of like, what's the biggest difference in your work? How has it changed over the years?

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think I can see my imposter syndrome kind of like dying through the years as as weird as it is, because I think as as a beginner, you know, earlier on in my career, obviously, I'm looking for inspiration. I don't really have that eye for, know, how to how to tell a cinematic wedding film, you know, in a natural way or whatever. Like, I'm just looking at like 31 films and being like, oh, my gosh, this is incredible. Let me do this at a tiny Kansas. wedding, you know, all this stuff. ⁓ But like I look at my decisions in the past compared to now. And it's funny because I feel like I've kind of achieved that cinematic wedding film like vision now more so than I did in the past with, you know, kind of going back to less equipment ⁓ and, know, less I don't know, less need to try to imitate. You know, I really am just like, how can I tell the story? What kind of angles are giving me this different feeling of emotion when I'm like watching this back? Like, how can that translate in the edit too? ⁓ And that's really what I just see is like my decisions are reflecting a complete different goal than they were in the past. ⁓ You know, quality is just a given with, with as I mature, I'm able to, you know, nail exposure a lot better. I'm forcing myself to use log a lot more in the right conditions also. Like if it's reception, nighttime low light, I probably won't use log if I don't have as good lighting. But if I can keep it my base ISO, it's great. So it's like things like that where I used to use log and not even think about dynamic range and how can I actually capture the most data. ⁓ I just use log because that's a cool term that I thought the professionals used, right? I thought I had to use log. And nowadays I find myself shooting, I'm a Sony guy, so as Sydney tone, you know, too sometimes. And so, yeah, it's just decisions are fueled by like knowledge and experience rather than like just like curiosity, real like, think I should do this. Right. And so, or maybe like ignorance is maybe what I should say in that word. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, no, I love that. feel like a lot of reasons so many of us tend to get stuck is, and this is from my own experience, ⁓ you know, I felt myself imitating more than I was innovating. And I was copying so many other people that when I look back at my work, I was like, who is this? Like, what is, what was I trying to do here? ⁓ And the realization came one time when like a couple actually called me out and it was the best thing that they've that's ever happened to me really, ⁓ you know at the time it was like ⁓ crap, I just ruined their experience and ⁓ I'm just I'm just a failure. I need to quit this but They had sent me an email and this was just their teaser. Thankfully ⁓ Or no actually no it wasn't it was their full wedding film now that I think back on it. They sent me an email and they were just like, hey, we think you are super talented. I just like knew there was a but coming in there and I was like, this is not going to be good. ⁓ But they sent me the email like, we know you're like, you're super talented and creative and we think this film is like really well done. However, but it just doesn't feel like you. the reason we actually hired you. And that was like a huge wake up call for me. And I was like, and I watched the film back and they were absolutely right because at the time I was trying so hard to just like imitate the like industry leaders. And I was trying to impress like other filmmakers and peers that I lost the whole entire plot of why we do what we do. and how important it is to know. You don't have to know who you are before you get started, but when you do get started, you do have to arrive at that conclusion soon so that you can build a business that is reputable, that couples like admire and just look at your work and they feel something where they see themselves in your work. And that's the reason they hire you. And then when you go to create that product and that the reason that they hired you, make sure that you deliver on that promise. And man, like I felt terrible. I was like, you're absolutely right. Like this is a huge disconnect, ⁓ a huge disservice. And so I restructured the entire thing and I was just like, you know what? I'm not going to follow any other filmmakers formula here. I'm going to just edit. based off my own intuition, based on what I'm feeling and based on what is reality. I'm not trying to manufacture what doesn't exist. And that's ultimately what I was doing. I was trying to manufacture something that just wasn't there and they could feel it. And if they can feel it, that's not the position you want to be in because that was tough. But it was necessary for me to hear. And yeah, you said the word imitation and I just, that's immediately what came to mind in my journey. I think it's so important for us to yes, imitate, to learn the techniques, copy, to learn the art. But once you know how to properly expose, once you know how to frame and like, you know, get the best color and all the things out of your image, that's when you start to just kind of let your perspective, the way you see the world, your intuition kind of guide you on wedding day. ⁓ Because so much of weddings, it's it's stories written by others. We're not telling the story, we're capturing the moment. And we are just unraveling what already exists. ⁓ It's like, in a way, yes, we kind of manufacturing something? Yes, but ⁓ no. We are just painting the picture in a way that we as filmmakers do. And I feel like that was a long tangent on the whole imitation versus an innovation side of it, but I feel like that was a ⁓ necessary little tidbit.

speaker-1: But no, that's so true, man. It's so true. it's I think it's just being aware of like, you know, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Am I building like a tool belt of tools and knowledge so that I can just easily access and, you know, capture things the way that I see it in my mind? Or am I ⁓ just copying maybe for like a better term imitating, right? ⁓ Something so that I can you know, get more clout or am I creating for other filmmakers instead of couples or like, what is, what is my why there? Right. And so I totally agree. The invitation, it's, it's something that everyone it's, it's a good tool as long as it's used the right ways.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. That's a great way to like kind of book in that that section. So no, this has been such a insightful conversation. I feel like it's been more in line with like how to film weddings, which is great because that's what this show is all about. And like, yeah, so no, I love that. So just to kind of like come to the final chapter of this of this conversation, you know, when you look back 10 years, someone who is just starting out in their career, ⁓ I'd love to just kind of hear like what kind of wisdom would you like to kind of impart on the beginner today for the next generation? Like what ⁓ are things that you maybe put too much attention on that you shouldn't have or things that you, you know, wish in hindsight if you knew now what I knew then kind of thing. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah. Well, coming from someone who's made a lot of mistakes and who has started and stopped a lot, like my biggest thing is probably two things. First and foremost, just don't give up. Don't stop. Like the only the only way you could fail is if you truly just hang up the towel. There's going to be good times. There'll be real tough times in business. You're going to get negative reviews every once in a while. It's just part of serving a lot of people. Right. And so just don't give up. No stop, no matter what you do. ⁓ And the second one that I have is gonna be, you are what makes you unique. Like don't try to force yourself to stand out. A lot of people will put, like they'll assign value to their own business, to their own selves, their own ego ⁓ by how unique they can make themselves, right? Maybe they add these super cool things to their packages. or whatever it might be, but like, there's so much pressure in that, that you're putting on yourself. And I think like, when I think back, I'm just like, man, know, 10 year younger, Augie, you are what makes you unique. You are, you and yourself is what makes your business stand out. So communicate that with couples, connect with couples on that, instead of trying to force yourself to stand out, maybe externally with whatever work you do or whatever it might be. because that is just so distracting to me. so yeah, like you are what makes your business unique. That's really what I think would have made a game changer if had somebody tell me that 10 years ago, you know, but yeah.

speaker-0: I love it. I love it. think that's a great ⁓ final little wisdom for anyone listening, just starting out and who's tuning into the episode. So for everyone listening, where can they find you and ⁓ dive deeper into more of your amazing work?

speaker-1: Yeah, so we're on all platforms except TikTok under velvet X vows. You can check out our website. We have some of our work there as well. We're mostly active on Instagram. Again, at velvet X vows there. But yeah, mean, just shoot us a message. Like I'm more than happy to talk unpacking any of these things more. But yeah, can find us there.