How A Simple Conversation Can Make Your Wedding Films 10x Better Ft Shyah K Films

We've believed there was a standard to what we capture and how we edit wedding films. Our guest together challenges that idea and shares the most important aspect of our job. Telling the story. Here's his framework to telling the couples story beautifully.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So never say it's an interview because interviews are hella awkward, but conversations are natural. Establish comfort first.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

The biggest mistake that wedding filmmakers make doesn't happen on the wedding day. It actually happens months before they press record. We spend years learning cameras, lenses, lighting, editing, but almost no one teaches us how to uncover the story. Because without the story, even the prettiest images can fall flat.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

If you do it well, this is when the wedding videographer earns the title of wedding filmmaker. What do they actually give a shit about and what makes a relationship strong? I also want to call bullshit. This whole thing about attention span is alive. We see it in like cultures that I don't have the attention span to watch a 10-minute video, a 90-minute video. But if it's personalized with their stories, industry will be elevated to a way where people actually see that wedding videos are like these beautiful home videos.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Every couple has a story to tell. We just have to care enough to tell it. And this is when the videographer becomes that filmmaker. Today Shai K Films breaks down his framework for turning the conversation into a generational story. This is the Happy Film Money Show.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

And I will always ask strategically a variety of questions, but I always ask the following. Like, is it you common values? Like instead of just saying, so what are your values? I'll lead them into what do they actually give a shit about and what's the what makes their relationship strong? It's their values, but also, oh, that sounds so exciting. What are you excited for at your wedding? And then they go off for a tangent and I'm like writing notes.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

And then finally, I also want to hear, like, well, if you could only have three moments filmed, what would they be? And now I can focus on it's the processional, it's the first look, it's grandma dancing on the dance floor. So now I have blinders on and I know what's more important to the couples. Uh and then I use all these notes for homework when I eventually do their backstory session, I call it, which is just the interview that I do before the wedding. Um and I think that's, you know, I was really excited to talk about this with you because the interview process, we we're seeing it way more in in the industry. But how to do it well, I'm not sure if videographers are doing it well enough to the standard that they want. You know, it's not my opinion, because I don't see their work, but I've just talked to like my peers, and it's it's hard to get people to open up. And I just gave a talk on this at my event, and I really want to kind of share this information for the listeners or for the listener. Like, how can you do this well so that couples get this keepsake video that's uniquely personal? Uh but there's a whole process, I think, that that needs to be done, and that's kind of what I'm hoping to like share with you, the listener.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

I love the shift into diving deeper into the couple's story because we only get that one day. And a big uh frustration of mine early on was like arriving to wedding day and like only having a very limited amount of time with the couple beforehand, like just video calls or like a phone call. And yet the photographer, they got the engagement session, they got like whatever it was. So, like, there was always this like I don't know, stronger relationship that was built from the the chemistry with the photographer and the couple versus like video in the couple, and there was always this like feeling in the back of my head, like, you know, I feel like they don't really care as much about me as they do the photographer. And but it's because you had that extra layer with them. You got to hang out with them outside of wedding day, you got to, you know, just make them feel loved, cared for, and seen just by letting them talk and listening to them and just show showing them like just how much fun um like this actually is. And that's that's what I love about these uh these storybook sessions, or I call them story sessions. Yeah, they're just so much fun because I feel like unfortunately, the wedding day itself has turned into this big photo shoot versus like you know, um actual. I mean, not to say there's not actual moments happening. There is, but it does in a sense feel like a photo shoot, like a like a stage almost, and like having that time away from all of that for a second for video is so important.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah, absolutely. And I I I always tell my couples that the backstory session, aka the interview, achieves two things is one, it gives your video far more depth and and more of your story. But then two, it's nice to have a relationship with the stranger you're inviting into your wedding. And when you reframe the importance of this, it couples are more willing to do it, even if they're awkward in front of the camera. Like you know, your last guest, Kyle, was saying, like, couples don't want to be in front of the camera. So never say it's an interview because interviews are hella awkward, but conversations are natural. So I tell my couples, hey, I want to like meet up with you, it'll be nice to see you in person, to see how tall you are, ha ha ha ha ha, just like crack some jokes, and then you're just gonna sit with me for 20 minutes. Uh, and it's gonna be a natural conversation. So the first step for the creatives listening, like they need to establish comfort first. I I had like my framework is care, comfort first, ask in layers, respond with curiosity, and then exit with care. So the first C is comfort. Like, when you're invited into someone's house, don't just set up right away and do the interview. It's like comment on their decor, pet their dog. You know, if they're offering you a coke because that's on your branding, you go, Oh my god, you're so wonderful, and then just shoot the shit for a little bit before you sit them down with your list of questions that Chat GPT gave you. Like it's you uh and that takes a lot of uh practice, like how to have people comfortable. And if people aren't comfortable, they're not gonna give you the juice that that we want. And honestly, if there's anyone listening that does commercial, like you want them to be comfortable as well. Like it's it's high stakes. You have to get them cozy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Let's just be honest with ourselves for a second. If you're a wedding filmmaker and you've been doing this thing for four or five years, even if you've been doing it for two, if you film 20 to 30 weddings a season, you've probably felt it at some point. The pressure, the stress of deadlines, staring at empty timelines, watching your backlog continue to rise while you're filming weddings on the weekend, you're doing family stuff during the week, and you start to wonder, how in the heck am I gonna be able to sustain this? Truthfully, that's the big question we all ask ourselves at one point because that fire, that passion, that hustle, that grind, that ambition that we had so fiercely at the start of this journey does start to dwindle because we get exhausted, we get tired managing everything by ourselves. And that's really where you start to realize that when it comes to entrepreneurship, when it comes to running a business, you need help. You need people that can be in your corner to alleviate some of those burdens so that you can get back to doing other things in your business, doing other things in your life, and focus on what really matters. And that's really where Uncut Gems, the official presenting partner of how to film weddings, comes into play. They're not just the presenting partner here in this episode. They are also my tried and trusted video editing team that I've been using in my wedding business, Wayward North. They really have taken my films, taken a lot of the backlog off my plate so that I can focus on making videos like this, or I can focus on spending time with my family and still retaining the same quality and expectations that my couples have when they watch their film. And they have been kind enough to offer you guys listening 60% off of your first edit. So head over to Uncut Gems. I will link them down in the show notes below. Use my code HCFW for that sweet discount and see if they can be a good fit for you. I don't call it an interview either because I feel like that's way too corporate, you know. Like, I don't know, it just feels like this isn't like, yes, it's a business transaction, but it's also a very personal type of industry that is so different than any other like it business y industry or whatever. It's like this is the most personal thing for someone. And yeah, it should be treated like a like an actual relationship that you that you genuinely genuinely care about, nurturing and and fostering with your couples. Cause I feel like that's ultimately gonna lead to a better film, it's gonna lead to a better experience, and you're ultimately gonna have a lot more fun treating it as like you're filming your friends versus you're filming your clients, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Um, yeah, it's just a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

It's just a conversation. It's it's a time for them to connect together versus like feeling like it's a job interview. Like that's that's what I I tell couples to. It's like it's not a job interview. This is a conversation, a time for you guys to connect outside of wedding day, outside of all the pressure and all the people yelling in your face. This is a time for you to like just share a share a moment. Like I treat it like a picnic, um, like you know, like a like a rom-com, like when Harry met Sally type of thing, where they're out in the park, you know, they're they're having a picnic and they got fruit, they got wine, or they got whatever their favorite drinks. And it's just like setting the stage where one, the setting, the location of where we capture the story session is totally dependent on the couple. I always say, like, what's sick, what's a significant place for you guys in your relationship? Is it is it a coffee shop? Is it you know the park downtown? Is it like your house? Um wherever it is, I always want it to be a significant setting. Um, because one, that's gonna establish comfort a lot quicker because it's familiar. So familiarity is very important for the setting from for my process. And you know, two, it it really just takes you know a lot of the guesswork off of me with like trying to figure out the best location, the best spot with the best lighting. Um yeah, I get to you know come to a place that the couple feels relaxed, comfortable, and you know, I don't have to do too much heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

The the key word for me that you said there was familiarity and it's it's the comfortable atmosphere, but then also starting with questions where the answers will be familiar to them. So for example, like a some of my a lot of my couples, like their grandparents are really important to them. And if they're not around anymore, I eventually want to get them to you know, what's it like knowing grandma is not gonna be around at your wedding? Like, I want that juice and a little bit of heartbreak. Um but start with something familiar when you open the interview. How did you meet? You know, what was it like? What do you like about your fiance? How would you describe your fiance? And eventually, like, I call them softball questions, like just get them talking and comfortable with you, uh, because that comfortable, that comfort will create openness. And then once you have a relationship that you've just established because you've only seen them online, like then you can eventually lead them into so you mentioned family is important, that's a mutual value. Once you get to family, then you can be like, Oh, okay, here's the deep question. Like, you don't want to start an interview with tell me about grandma. Like, that's not the first question. Like, you don't start with a hardball question, like they're not gonna cry and give you it's like, tell me about each other, what's your origin story? You know, how did you you you meet, blah, blah, blah, and eventually create that comfort and familiarity so that you can get to those deep questions. Because I love tears, you know, I love seeing the tears on on wedding backstory sessions, and because that creates depth. So when you lift them out of it at the reception content, it's way higher because you know deep down like they're missing their family. But look at this joy. Uh, so creating familiarity and comfort before you move uh into the hardball. And that's where the ask in layers thing comes from. It's start easy before you move them to what's it like that your grandma won't be around, which is a solid question.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

But and you can't kiss the girl before you actually ask her on the first date kind of thing. You know, it's like it's it's the same concept. And my my framework is, you know, I start at like the belief. Um, you know, what do they believe about love individually and about each other? Um, and then I kind of lead into the identity of who they see themselves um when they're together. Um so and and for me, conflict is at it's at the fourth stage. It's like we're we're leading, we're getting there, but we're not jumping right into the conflict. Um, because obviously we know like great stories, we do need some kind of friction and tension and challenge, obstacle. Because if everything was hunky dory, it would just be, you know, it would just be, you know, I don't know. I don't know what it would be. But yeah, it would be flat. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good way to say it. Because there's just nothing to really latch on to um at a human level. We would look at it and be like, I don't know why, but that seems fake. That doesn't feel real to me because life isn't perfect, relationships sure aren't perfect, marriage is is, you know, obviously, you know, statistically, it's it doesn't look good, but it's like, you know, having the I guess sound mind and just responsibility. We have the responsibility to tell those stories like in the best, like most accurate light possible. I mean, we have a responsibility and a duty not just to manufacture this, you know, very vibey, like epic, slow-mo, like cinematic, perfect day of someone's life. We have the responsibility to like show the the other side of it, show like what it what it took to actually get to the aisle. Yeah, like let's see that. That's what I want to see.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And what's like what's happening behind their eyes and in their mind, and why does the relationship matter? And you know, sometimes we get to understand their story or see their story with archival footage. They're gonna send photos from their first date and whatnot, and but how can you utilize that your little interview backstory sesh to get like content or dialogue that matches the archival footage? And something that I really want creatives to know, videographers, is like you need to remove like your you need to remove yourself from like the list of questions that you have and come in with some curiosity too. And this is the R in care. It's it's respond with curiosity. So if you saw them, like, oh, they went to like Burning Man, how the heck do you eventually get to Burning Man? You could just say, So tell me about that time in Burning Man, which would be really cool, but if they say, Oh, we had a really great, we've had really great times together, you could say, Well, what does what does Burning Man mean to you? Tell me about your experiences there, and don't just move on from learning more and remove on from the opportunity of depth just because you got your answer. So, for example, I'm gonna go back to grandma just because that's what I know well. Like, if someone tells me, you know, like I'm gonna miss my grandma, and eventually I want to learn more about that, I could say, well, what were some of your favorite things to do with her? Or like, how was she a role model? Just like I have genuine curiosity to learn about the person. And then if Bride says, Oh, we used to bake all the time, and I love that, now I have photos of that and I have context, and now I can slap that into the video, and you get context. So if videographers have a list of questions that they want to get through and they're leading them on this emotional journey, like I encourage them to step off a little bit and dive deeper. Um, if someone says, Oh, we had a long-distance relationship for 14 months, well, was it challenging? Tell me more about that, and then you're getting more depth. And it's also like not just I see this all the time asking yes and no questions versus open-ended questions. Are you sad that your grandma's not gonna be around? Yes, I am sad, versus what's it gonna be like when you're at the ceremony and you have that chair with grandma's name on it? Then it's like the emotional flood, and you're allowing the person to explain their feelings. And now when you get that B roll, you actually know the significance of that empty chair and the significance of that person in your couple's life. Uh and you're leading them on this emotional journey and getting the tears, and like, oh heck yeah, like that's going in the in the trailer or the teaser or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

It's the visualization painted in the question that really like hits you. Like the minute you said, How are you gonna feel when you see grandma's empty chair with her picture there at the ceremony, like that hit me? Like, you know, like I, you know, I mean, I still have one of my grandmas, but you know, I've lost like other grandmothers in the past. And like it's the visualization that connects to the human emotion of it all. Instead of just the yes or no questions, it's it's yeah, painting that picture for them so that they can really just be transported into delivering the most vulnerable answer.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Oh yeah, Jared, it's totally strategic. Like, I'm I'm leading them into that tier, but like I'm letting them arrive at like their vulnerability. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

It's so it's so good. I mean, but the big word that you said there was you have to have curiosity, a genuine curiosity to really know these people and really tell their story on a deeper level. If you don't have that curiosity, I mean, you know, it's just it's gonna show up in the final in the final film because you just didn't really do the research or the detective work or um, you know, the this the scientific analysis and all the things that is really required to, you know, get to know people on a on a deeper level.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

So yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's a it's getting to know them. And you can be prepared and you have your notes and everything, but be ready to go off script. And sometimes I'll uh the couple will mention something, you know, about proposing on these sand dunes. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna write a note, and then after I'm gonna ask them a few more questions, but then I'll send an email saying, Can you please send me content or like you know, like imagery, media about that? But it's the curiosity that allowed them to elaborate and it's gonna give us more stories. And that's when the videographer becomes the filmmaker, whatever you want to title yourself, but it's how do you find like how do you tell a story? You need sound bites, but you have to walk them there if you know what the soundbite is. And then, even more importantly, Jared, is like if you walk them somewhere vulnerable where they're talking about grief or loss, like you have a responsibility to pull them out of it, and like this is where the the E comes in in the framework. So it's exit with care. Like, how do you, as a videographer or an interviewer, pull someone out of a vulnerable state after you directed them there for the soundbite for your for the couple's film, but it's like now you have a responsibility to pull them out. So I want to know like how do you do it? Like, what do you do after people start crying? Because it's like I gotta leave their house and they have groceries to do in a couple hours, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it ends with the the promise, right? It's after the conflict, after the challenge is spoken, I lead them into you know the the promise for each other, for their future, for their family. Yeah. And it just kind of brings it into this full circle moment. We started at this belief, and then we walk them down the journey of identity, of challenge, of you know, to the promise. And then we get to the full circle moment where it just goes right back to what they believe. We heard what they said, but now we know why they believe it. And then after the conversation, what I do is I do romantics at sunset, and this is where we just have fun. We just it's not very it's not posing. It's not um it's very different than like an engagement session would be with a photographer. This is like we're running around in fields, we're frolicking, we're like, you know, um just having fun. And that's that's a way to just like have this completely human moment with the couple um that is just that translates so incredibly on on film. It really does.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

I can I can see that your story sessions are yeah, are very yeah, like fulfilling and gratifying for the couple, like they get to share their story and go in deeper places, and then you then it's just there's this motion and it's dynamic, and it's the couple, and they get to again build that chemistry with you. That's beautiful. So I don't like have that opportunity after I just sit with them with my backstory sessions, but I do feel obligated to reciprocate and like pull them back out into something joyful. Um, so generally what I'll do is instead of like doing a hard transition of I'm so sad that my grandma won't be there, and then going into so tell me about your reception. Like, are you gonna get lit? You know, it's like I know I know I want to get to the reception and joy because they told me on the consult they're just ready to party. So I want to find a segue. So something like that would be, you know, grandma sounds like a wonderful person, and I imagine like she would love being around she would that she would be with you on the dance floor. Tell me, what are you what's it gonna be like when you're on the dance floor surrounded by your people? So my exit strategy is still connected to the vulnerability, but I am strategically moving towards a topic that is more enjoyable. So the exit strategy is is still connected to that loss. Um, but the thing was like once you resolve that emotion, you're doing a couple things. One is for the couple, like if you didn't resolve that and you just kind of ended and she was still feeling grief about her grandmother, and then she goes grocery shopping and sees the grandma holding her granddaughter's hand, like that loss is still gonna be very like visceral. But if you transition out of it, you don't just get resolution for the couple, you get resolution for your story. Then it's you know, I know she's gonna be with me looking over us, and I just can't wait to celebrate with all my people as if she's right there. Now you have the sound bite for your story as well, or for their story, sorry. Uh so I like to have segues and then pull them out of it. And then once they say, Oh yeah, I can't wait to be on the dance floor, then you can move into all the other fun topics. So I think there really is a responsibility that if you lead people into somewhere difficult, find a way to pull them out of it organically, not just like hard cut, because humans aren't like that, yeah. Um yeah, and it's also like to be it's to have body language that mirrors them too. So it's when people are joyful and they're talking about getting lit with their best friend, lean in, be exciting. But once it's like a little bit sentimental, keep that eye contact and like get ready to be on a emotional ride and and see them where they are. And that when you see them on the wedding day, you will have that chemistry because you went on a journey with them, and uh it's a beautiful thing that we get to do if you do it right and you do it well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've seen a huge difference and shift from the old videographer of me where I just show up on wedding day feeling a little discouraged, defeated, the photographer's getting all this attention and praise, and like they're just so much more valuable than me, versus now where it's like there's just this equal weight between photo and video. There's like I'm they know exactly what I'm there to do and how I'm gonna do it, and they're excited because they have they've already seen it right in action and they've already experienced me before wedding day. So there's not this uncertainty going into wedding day. There's this like there's this confidence instilled in them being in front of my camera. So there's just like that extra layer that just helps so much from the filmmaker's perspective and capturing all those emotions and and vulnerabilities, and just also feeling like you're equally valued as the photographer because you've already had this moment with them. And um, I I can't go back now. Like every couple I've I work with now gets a session because it's just like it just makes all the difference. Um, and it really does. Even if it's like, even if the session didn't pull out those golden nuggets that I was hoping for, it's still, it still is an experience that makes the wedding day so much easier to navigate. You yourself can feel a lot more confident in what you're there to capture and um you know all of the moments that mean so much to them. There's really no uncertainty in your mind going into wedding day, which alleviates so much anxiety. Like, I can't tell you how much anxiety I used to have going into wedding day. I still get a little anxious, don't get me wrong, but it's like that's just because I care. But it's like, and I want to do a good job, like um technically and all those things. But um, yeah, I mean, I used to get so much anxiety going to wedding day because I was just so uncertain with like, okay, well, what is the priority? Like, what is like what did the couple really want me to put more focus on? I mean, as a solo, as a solo filmmaker, you think of those things naturally, of course. But like when you spend that time with the couple, when you know exactly what they care about, what they value most, you go in there, you don't really have that that concern. Your your main anxiety is is the photographer gonna be awesome? Will I get to eat more? Is the food gonna be good? Those are the bigger concerns that you start to worry about. It's yeah, it's not so much those other things, but yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

And and so you have that chemistry and you can do a better job and they have a connection with you and they'll they'll be more open with you. And uh I don't do them with every single Western video. Western is just anything that's not a South Asian video. Um, I try to, but the thing is, is like if you do these things well, these sessions well, it'll likely start with, we're so awkward on camera, I don't want to do this, right? And you've established that comfort, and by the end of it, the couples will hopefully say, it was so great, like to chat and and it was easy, and then you carry that energy into the wedding, wedding day. And one thing I've been thinking about lately is how couples are we see it in like the the cultures that I don't have the attention span to watch a 10-minute video, a 90-minute video, whatever it is. But if it's personalized with their story and it's told with uh truth and comfort, then uh the industry will be elevated to a way where people actually see that wedding videos are like these beautiful home videos that are great for posterity. And people will start to re-evaluate what their quote unquote attention span is, and that's why I think these interviews should be done more and should be done better. I also want to call bullshit on on this attention span thing. I did a little research on Netflix, and the 25 to 35 year olds are watching nearly two hours of of series a day, which means this whole thing about attention span is a lie. And I think if we show these uh these interviews done well and they're integrated with beautiful speeches and vows and and authentic, genuine footage of who the couple is and who their family is, that people will start to say, Oh, wedding videos aren't just Jennifer Lopez music videos that are glamorous photo sessions, or it's they're meaningful stories. And that can start if we do interviews better or these backstory stories better. Um I don't know. This gets me fired up. It's like I call BS, we gotta do these stories better.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

No, we we absolutely need to. Um, I I feel like that's the the that's the biggest shift. I mean, that I mean we need to see more of is taking what used to be the very music video, highlight-y wedding film, and turning it into those deeper, meaningful, human, rich stories. Like we need to get away from just this again, man. I go I keep coming back to the word manufactured because I feel like that's what a lot of us have done in the past is like we've manufactured something that isn't reality or we've provided a disservice to the couple and the family. And I'm speaking for myself, and I'm not projecting, but I I I I I I guess I am kind of projecting in a sense because there are wedding films out there that do this too. But I know from my own experience, I used to create these films that I mean, yes, they were what's what's the right way to put this? I don't even know the right way to put this. Like, I was really following what I thought wedding films were supposed to be instead of kind of looking at what I wanted to to create in the beginning. Um, like I was, I was, I guess I was kind of influenced. Let's just say that. I guess that's where a lot of people are in this world today, not just filmmakers and video, I mean, just the the population, right? We're we're constantly being we're constantly being influenced um in ways that are either directly or indirectly. And 2016, 2017, I was heavily influenced in the era of like everything had to be slow motion. Everything. Yeah. Everything we all needed to do the the slider etlchrone shots with the tripod. Like we like and so it's just like there was no rhyme or reason to what I was doing. I was just doing what I thought that's this is what I'm supposed to do. This is what people want.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

That's the standard, the status.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Instead of just like doing the very simple, the very bare minimum thing and just asking the couple what they want, you know, like that's when I like it, it seems so silly when I think back to like how I used to make films versus how I do now. It's like it's the simplest thing. Like you just ask your couple what they're excited about, what what they value most. Like, what do they want to remember 20 years from now, not just tomorrow? Like, because a wedding film isn't for your couple today, it's for them 20, 30, 40 years from now. It's for their kids, it's generational storytelling. That's that's what we do. Generational storytelling. Um so I think a lot of the ideas and of what I guess wedding videographers, wedding filmmakers, what we do, the lines have been so blurred that I do want to try to have this unified, universal, I guess, statement, declaration, I should say. Oh, declare, go off. That wedding filmmaking, wedding videography should be about generational storytelling. It should be about families, it shouldn't be about our Instagram reels or portfolio or like I mean, at the end of the day, it's like like you have mentioned, like there's distinctions like between videographers, filmmakers, and you know, I mean, we can throw cinematographers in there too. But when you get to the filmmaking label, you really become a journalist. I mean, because that's what you're you're diving deeper into this couple story, and you're uncovering all those layers and um parts about their life that make them special, and that just goes deeper behind just an what an eight-hour wedding day can, because we can only do so much on the wedding day, which I think is where this whole like, you know, idea of doing the backstories and um story sessions came about because we we started getting bored. We're like, there's gotta be more here. There's gotta be something, there's gotta be more here, like more that we can do, more that we can emphasize and and and tell and go deeper. And I know this is a long-winded tangent into this, but yeah, I just think ultimately wedding filmmaking, you know, what we do at the heart of it is it should be about families and just that generational storytelling.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

So something that you're sharing, like uh not manufacturing, but also having that journalism perspective and philosophy. Um, yeah, I think we should do both, and I'll elaborate first. Like the run and gun nature of weddings is so that we have to be journalistic, we have to document. But something like my philosophy at times is to manufacture authentic moments. So as I'm sharing my strategy with these backstory sessions, I am strategically leading them to authentic moments. So I am manufacturing in a way, but it's so that they can show up comfortable on camera so that they can share their story, but I'm guiding them. And then I'm also leading them out from you know, like the shadows. But even on a wedding day, sometimes I do like to manufacture authentic moments. A couple of years ago, I was filming a wedding where this bride was from Atlanta and he and the groom was here in Vancouver, and I knew that they wanted to have a mix of like, we want to cry on our first look, or we're probably gonna cry and we want to look good. This like Korean, Chinese couple, they look so sharp and they're so great. But she's like, I'm from Atlanta and we're gonna get lit. So it was this incredible. Like, I'm just hearing like me ghosts and all this trap music at the reception. And I thought, like, what would happen if I just put a chair in the middle of this dance floor? You know, I'm Jewish, so like we I know like we like to go up on chairs. So I just felt it and I'm like, I'm gonna do this. So I just like grabbed a chair, slapped in the circle of dance, and then like walked away and just fell into the shadows.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

And what happens? Yeah, they go, people are like, yo, bride, bride, bride, and they lift her up. It was like a banger. But you know, did I influence 100%? But if nothing happened and it died, I would have removed it. Yeah, but I did create something that was really fun for the couple, and every now and then I'll just sprinkle my little juju shy energy, and it'll create like a really great scenario. So we can influence if we know the couple well enough. We can create authentic moments. Uh, it's sometimes even like, hey, your grandma's just sitting like alone by herself. Like, it'd be great just to like have a chat with her. Like, are you down? And like, no, I'm busy, or yeah, I'd love that. I'm like, just talk about whatever. You know, we even I mean, we even do it on the photo session. Just walk, have a conversation. You're manufacturing an authentic moment there, but how can we do it on a deeper level and create story and and and do it in an authentic way? I think that's that's a really cool philosophy to have too.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah, no, I'm glad you made that distinction because there is a a very, very big difference between manufacturing authenticity and manufacturing what doesn't exist. You're taking elements of whether it's you know music or parts of the wedding day, and you're kind of elevating them to a degree that kind of takes you out of the realism of the moment itself. Every couple has a story to tell. We just have to care enough to tell it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Oh, dude, yeah, you're so right. Like every interview, backstory, you know, whatever. I'm just gonna call it interviews from now on. Um, like there's a potential to get like origin story, relief, transformation, loss, desire. There is an arc. And when I was when I was presenting on this topic, like I kind of drew out the three-act structure because it exists, it's just how do you pull it out? And this is when the videographer becomes that filmmaker, and you have after you get enough reps in talking in front of people, like, yeah, pulling out that story, and even like what the way you do it, and then taking them on this like this shoot and sunset, like it's beautiful, and but there is a strategy to it, and yeah, I think we more of us should tell those stories and kind of get messy, and also, man, I don't know if you've ever done these interview things and like there's an awkward silence. I want to tell people like to embrace it. If you're asking a question and they say something and then it's just pause, like just linger in that office level cringe because oftentimes, like the best juice or soundbite comes out of that awkward silence. Yeah, just sit in it.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

It is so hard, though. Oh, it is so harder.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Like, don't fill in the space, like it's not on you.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Let them talk. You're absolutely right. You have to let the silence linger. You cannot speak into it because then you just lose an opportunity. You really lose an opportunity to get the the golden nugget or that little sound bite that you were really etching for. And yeah, I've it's that's an art form in of itself, dude. Let me tell you, because I have had my fair share of those awkward silences. I'm just like, what do I do? Do I say something? I don't know what to do here in this moment. Oh, this is so hard, it's so awkward. And yeah, it can kind of for someone like me who is just like overthinking constantly, that can be one of the most challenging aspects of doing some of these sessions because you feel this like intense desire to just like switch gears or switch lanes or go to the next question because you feel like that's the way this you're trying to direct the conversation in in a in a different route so that you can get the nuggets. But yeah, if you just sit in the silence, and I've learned that too on wedding day, like is just like sitting back, letting those moments unfold, telling the photographer, hey, like during the first look, like let's just like if if it's silent for a little while, let's just wait. Like, wait till they look at us, wait till they like cue us to like maybe reposition or uh redirect. And I've had some of the best first look moments with like bride and dad, and just it's it's so so important to just be still sometimes, most of the time. It's just to be still, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

And if it's during the interview, like it's just a game of chicken, they're gonna talk first, and if they don't, just say just move on to your next question. Don't be like, Oh, that was awkward. Like, please do not say that on the interview. Like, just move on to the next question.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Well, this has been so good. I'm sure everyone listening is just like jotting down notes on like what they can do for their next story session, or if they haven't done them yet, hopefully they're starting after this conversation. But please start for yeah, for anyone listening here that hasn't gotten plugged into everything that you're doing, I'd love to uh give them all the information.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, uh, so my wedding company is Shia K Films at S-H-Y-A-H, K Films. Uh, but I also try and support, much like you, uh, other video creatives. So that's over at northbound.education. And it's uh part podcast, part event where I want video creatives to achieve their version of success. So shortly after this uh this episode comes out, I'll be releasing uh the replay sessions for my northbound event. And one is like a full 45-minute talk of me speaking about interviews. And I think we as creatives we want to be involved in people's lives and share these stories, but we have to do it well with respect, with curiosity, and with reciprocation. Uh, so hit me up if you have questions. I'd love to like chat with people about this because I really, really believe in it. I think we have this opportunity. Uh, I'm I'm here to help the video community as well. And so thank you so much, Sher. This has been awesome to just rant and go off a little bit on this important topic.