3.3 IMDRAP special - Brian Campbell

More words and thoughts on the growing world of Open Dialogue from IMDRAP 2024 with Brian Campbell from East London.

POD at Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust

Fiona Eastmond | LinkedIn

Transcript

Narrator 0:09

Welcome to season three of open POD pod. My name's Fiona and I'm an open dialogue practitioner, just beginning to develop some hours of practice. We'd really love it. If the things that we talk about in this podcast, Could sit alongside any learning that anyone's doing about open dialogue.

Fiona 0:26

So we're here at SOAS, at the IMDRAP conference, and I'm just grabbing random people to see what it is that they're thinking.

Brian 0:33

Hello, yeah. My name is Brian Campbell.

Fiona 0:36

What brought you here today?

Brian 0:38

Well, I've been working in the ODESSI teams in the North East London Trust since 2018. Um, I was all set to go to the conference and then COVID hit and I've never actually been to a conference. So when it was in London and it was just the ideal opportunity I kind of helped do some of the organizations for it as well. And it just, yeah, it's fun. It's like a proud moment for North East London Foundation Trust. I'm going to say, I'm going to plug them.

Fiona 1:06

A proud moment.

Brian 1:07

Yeah. I mean, we were the sponsor site. for the ODESSI trial. Russell Razzaque was one of the, leading lights in the trial and I know I've worked alongside Russell in the London Borough of Havering which is in North East London Foundation Trust for quite a while. So I kind of, yeah, it feels like, it's a funny thing to say but it feels like, being recognised by the Trust, yeah, and it's nice to sort of like get a bit of credit for it. talk about what we've done and people say, Oh, that's really interesting. And then hear back from them. And it's just, yeah, it's just, it's been very, quite tiring, but very sort of exhilarating at the same time.

Fiona 1:40

What sort of thing have you heard back?

Brian 1:42

Lots of the things that I heard back was quite a lot practical. Just an example, someone came up to me today and said, Um, Well, I didn't think that you could do open dialogue with people in, in crisis. And I said, well, actually, in the ODESSI trial, that was one of the criteria. That everyone was in, would be in crisis. We'd get the referrals from, what, the wards home treatment teams. And so, and that was quite a long conversation. And it was, you know, just explaining about just sometimes being alongside someone was, you know, was, It wasn't what was said often, it was just being with. And that was important.

Fiona 2:22

Just being with.

Brian 2:24

This particular person was telling me about a family member who, and she was saying, you know, she'd never been, she'd just walk out. And I said, yeah, that used to happen. All the time, you know. We'd just carry on, you know, there'd be other family members. And often the person would come back. And sometimes the person would say, I'm not talking. And we'd sit in silence or just, you know. But I often think, you know, I've, it's many times it's happened to me afterwards, a few weeks or months later, you know, the person at the centre has come back and said, you know, I remember their meetings. And I was, they would say things like, yeah, I was a bit crazy at the time, but I remember their meetings. People understand, I think, even if they're in, you know, You know, quite an altered state of mind at the time, they still know we was there, we was alongside, we was, and consistency, we was there, we didn't just leave.

Fiona 3:20

It is about being alongside and that consistency, isn't it, in the end.

Brian 3:25

Yeah, yeah. And, I think people remember that. I think, you know, I've had other sort of people who would say, I think it was a test They were testing us. I do, I do sometimes think that, you know, um, will these people be like all the other people that I've met? Because I remember one guy in particular said to me, and I said, you know, um, how would you want, you know, a doctor's news meeting? And he said, what, you mean I can talk about whatever I want? And I, yeah, whatever you, you know, he goes, I just want to talk about football and the weather. I said, great, two of my favorite subjects. Thanks. Thanks. And I think he was a bit shocked, but that's how we used the whole meeting. And at the end I said, would you like another meeting? And he said,

Fiona 4:08

yeah. Brilliant. Did you try to intellectualise football and the weather and try to discover something deeper? Or did the relationship simply build to the point where things that I suppose were closer than I guess to mental health were, were being discussed. Did, did that person in the end find those meetings helpful?

Brian 4:33

Absolutely. But that particular meeting, we literally just discussed football and, and the weather. And I think it's really, really important, that relational aspect.

Fiona 4:44

Yeah.

Brian 4:44

And it was, it was, I got to know a lot about this chap, he got to know about me and my, and my colleague, uh, who didn't actually like football, but that was a talking point as well. And um, and so the next time we weren't strangers really. He knew things about me, I knew things about him. And it was one of the classic ones, he goes, well, at the next meeting, subsequent meeting, he goes, I guess I'll talk about it.

Fiona 5:10

Yeah.

Brian 5:10

Because something kept It's that intangible thing that happened that somehow there was a bit of a connection.

Fiona 5:16

Yeah. A connection over football and weather. Which are two things that we're always highly aware of, aren't we, in society. What struck me about what you said was that then you weren't strangers.

Brian 5:30

Yeah. Well, kind of that's how it felt.

Fiona 5:32

Yeah.

Brian 5:33

Yeah.

Fiona 5:33

I love

Brian 5:34

that that. Yeah. It wasn't, you know, I'm Brian, you know, the mental health nurse, the pod practitioner, and, and you're the patient, it was just, I'm Brian, and he's I'm not going to use your real name, he was, you know, he was Gary. He's Gary the Arsenal fan, which I didn't like. But, being a West Ham supporter, but there you go. But, you know.

Fiona 5:51

Well, Arsenal supporter over here, so what can I say?

Brian 5:55

End of interview.

Fiona 6:00

Thank you so much for taking a minute to sit down and give me some pure gold dust for the, for the podcast. Thank you so much. Do you have anything that you'd like to add?

Brian 6:12

Not really, it's just that I'm thoroughly enjoying meeting people and some people I haven't seen for years and that's another good, great reason to go to the conference whenever they're, or the meeting, whenever they're on, yeah.

Fiona 6:23

So we'll see both of my listeners there, 2025 then. Thank you. Thanks

Narrator 6:31

thank you for listening we really hope that we'll have the pleasure of having you as one of our listeners again. And that's it for this episode of Open Pod Pod. Join us for the next episode.