Prosecuted for Doing His Job: The Deputy Anthony Gann Story

A jury cleared Deputy Anthony Gann of a manslaughter charge in two hours, but the path to that verdict is the part that America must understand and public safety needs to be warned about.

I’m joined by Tiffany Yant, founder of Give Blue Hope, a nonprofit providing financial assistance to families of first responders killed in the line of duty. Tiffany also brings the lived reality of loss as the daughter of Officer Ross Bartlett, killed on duty in Nebraska. Together, we walk through the prosecution of Deputy Gann, the decision to indict, and the trial tactics that leaned on hindsight bias, selective video emphasis, and the claim that law enforcement has a duty to retreat.

We also talk about the ripple effects: good officers leaving the profession, proactive policing giving way to hesitation, and communities that pay the price of cowardice. If you care about police accountability, criminal justice reform, and public safety, this conversation connects the dots between courtroom decisions and what happens on the street.

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Transcript

hy This Case Matters

Announcement 0:01

Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice, and encouragement they need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates 0:11

Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored you decided to spend a few minutes with us here today. And I'll just sort of tell you if you have not listened to last week's episode called Hiding Behind a Suit and Robe, that's sort of a precursor to what you're going to hear today. You need to know the entire story of Deputy Anthony Gann in its whole. And last week's episode will tell you that. We'll put a link of that and an article here. But I think if you really want to understand this episode to its fullest, be sure to back up and listen to that episode. We're going to give you enough today to sort of understand what we're talking about, but that's sort of the whole picture. So consider this kind of a part two, but it's really more than that because I'm honored to have on Tiffany Yant on the show. She's the founder of Give Blue Hope that provides financial assistance to the families of first responders killed in the line of duty. She's a resident of Nebraska, and she has intimate and personal knowledge of the story of Deputy Anthony Gain. And after last week's episode, she reached out to us, and we're really honored to have her on. Tiffany, how are you?

Tiffany Yant 1:17

I'm good. Thanks, Travis.

iffany’s Loss And Blue Hope

Travis Yates 1:19

Well, before we get started, you obviously have a high interest in law enforcement. You're not law enforcement, but I I don't want to be presumptuous, but I think that's because of your father, Officer Ross Bartlett. Can you just kind of quickly tell our audience about your dad and sort of uh why you do what you do because of him?

Tiffany Yant 1:37

Sure. So my dad was a police officer, uh volunteer firefighter and criminal investigator for over 30 years here in Nebraska, um, all over Nebraska. Um and on April 12th, 2024, my dad, serving as a police officer for Ceresco Police Department, was killed in the line of duty by a willful, reckless um driver. And so since that day, obviously our entire world came crashing down around us. Um, I grew up bleeding blue because my dad was a law enforcement officer, my mom was a dispatcher. Um, but since that day, I truly, truly do bleed blue now. Um I am a huge advocate for law enforcement and for first responders in general. Um, my dad is not here because somebody broke the law, because somebody didn't keep our law enforcement officers safe. Um, somebody chose to be so distracted on their phone that they did not see his red and blue lights on the side of the highway as he was conducting a traffic stop. And what I've learned since that day, since I decided to advocate and continue his legacy through Give Blue Hope, is that he wasn't the first and he hasn't been the last. And our law enforcement officers are dying every day, whether that's by gun violence or stabbing or a vehicle. They are dying. They are going to work and they are not coming home. Um, and that is just tragic. That is just a huge tragedy, and it shouldn't be that way.

Travis Yates 3:14

Yeah, Tiffany, I think the general public, they don't have a clue. They don't understand, nor should they. The media doesn't really report this stuff. It's not in their interest to report this stuff, and we all know the bias there. Uh, but I, you know, my my wife's father was killed in line of duty. We briefly discussed that before the show. She was just four years old, and I saw from afar coming along much later, the destruction that continues in that family. And, you know, just just uh to this day, you know, Father's Day and Christmas. I mean, and so I feel for you. Uh, this is fresh for you. This is just a couple years ago. Uh, how how are you and your family doing?

Tiffany Yant 3:53

Um, you know, we're we're managing. I will never say that we're okay because we're not. Our life has been completely changed. And, you know, my dad is just not here. He he went to work that day and he put his gun on, his vest, his badge, he kissed my mom goodbye. He told her he loved her and he told her he'd see her in a few hours. And he didn't. And so our family is the one that has to pick up those pieces, and we have to figure out how do we live in a world where he doesn't? How do we live in a world where he went to work and he didn't come home? Because that is not normal. That is not normal. You should not go to work and have to worry about not coming home. But that is the reality that every law enforcement officer faces, and that's the reality that their family faces. Um, so we are taking what happened to us and what happened to my dad, and we are trying to make the world better. We're trying to advocate and we're trying to let the media know and let the public know that this is what the reality for our police officers are, and this is what it means to protect and serve, and this is what it means to hold the line. My dad died holding that line.

Travis Yates 5:05

Yeah, that's I just want people to understand how important and courageous this is for what you and your family are doing, because you go two different directions when these tragedies happen. I mean, you can go hide in a corner and be full of rage and and everything else, or you can go, I'm gonna make a change for the good. I'm gonna live my life with a purpose. And this uh this may have happened to me, but it also happened for me to live this purpose in the future and make life better. And so uh your organization, Give Blue Hope, will you know, give us the website real quick, and we're gonna get on to what we're here to talk about today. But I wanted to front load it with why you're here because I think it's so important that you're not a foreign law enforcement officer, you're not a head of the IECP, you're here advocating with what happened to Deputy Anthony Gann as a civilian, and we need more people just like you. We need more people in the profession just like you. But what's the website of your organization, Tiffany?

Tiffany Yant 5:56

Sure, it is um www.givebluhope.org.

ow Deputy Gann Got Indicted

Travis Yates 6:00

Yeah, everybody go to that, subscribe to it. If you can, donate to it. Incredible organization. And Tiffany, you you contacted me after we did the podcast and article about Deputy Gann, and just to sort of give our audience that maybe has not listened to that episode. It's only 20-30 minutes. You really need to go back and listen to that. Uh, Deputy Gann uh got involved in a uh deadly force incident on October 23rd, 2023. Uh it was real justified by the sheriff. Uh multiple experts, including myself, reviewed the case. It was a justified shooting. And a district attorney there uh took it to a grand jury. Instead of making a decision, like leaders should do, he he took it to a grand jury, and we have documented on this show how those grand juries are abused. I mean, there's a reason why this old saying is you can indict a ham sandwich at a grand jury because you don't get to put up a defense, the prosecutor gets to place the narrative the way they want it, but they took him to a grand jury and they indicted Deputy Gann for manslaughter.

Tiffany Yant 6:56

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna add to that right there. The very first thing that happened that is tragic in this is that the grand jury was not informed of Nebraska's use of force policies for law enforcement.

Travis Yates 7:11

Yeah, we're we're gonna do that. Well, that's not that's not the first crazy thing that happened. But no, no. When you when you look at this, when you look at this, Tiffany, um, there's a lot of things that were done wrong, in my opinion, and of course, your opinion. Uh, but I just want to give our audience sort of how we got here today. And so they they indicted this officer that was found to be within policy, a young officer, a good officer, great reputation. Uh, he he had to take action, unfortunately, to defend the lives of himself and other deputy and the lives of the people traveling that roadway. A long, crazy pursuit sort of happened before that. Listen, the details of that, go read that article that's posted here, go listen to the podcast. But he he unfortunately, like many officers around the country, found himself facing a manslaughter or murder charge for literally doing his job. And so, and how this was manipulated. And once again, you're gonna hear me say things like my opinion or your opinion throughout, because let me tell you how these cowards operate, if you're not familiar. And we're gonna be talking, we're gonna be naming some names today because they're behind this, is they love to use the law, defamation law, civil lawsuits to shut you up. The last thing a district attorney would want is this information out because they love you know they so so the fact that you're able to come on here and talk about this is so impressive, Tiffany. But we also want to protect yourself and us. And so obviously, we're gonna be speaking today from a based uh from our opinions based on what we've observed. Now, there are there are some facts that we'll talk about, these facts I've just talked about, how how this even happened, right? I took this to a grand jury, and many grand juries uh can be manipulated. I wasn't present for this one, so I don't know the old details of this one, but many grand juries in general can be manipulated. But that's why we're gonna hear me court to say that. Uh, but it's not just our opinion, Tiffany. Uh, we have juries' opinions too, because what happened was uh this ended up going to a jury trial. I was brought on as an expert witness along with Jeff Martin out on the West Coast, who's a very well-known expert witness in use of force. And not only did they do what they did at the grand jury, but the Friday before the Monday trial. So you have to imagine put yourself in Deputy Gant's shoes. He's been going through this for two years. I can't even imagine the excruciating agony he's having to deal with. Uh that his own department ruled this justified in policy within his training. He was obviously a well-trained officer, and then he has this happen to him uh through the decisions of others. Uh, and his entire case is ready to go, two experts online ready to go. And then the Friday before the Monday trial, the judge rules based on and based on a request from the prosecutor, that I can't testify, Jeff Martin can't testify, you can't discuss any of his policies, you can't discuss any of his training. There you go. Now, let me just tell you how crazy that is. When we train law enforcement officers at in the academy or after the academy, we don't say, okay, here's your policy, here's your training, oh, you better remember the public quarreling law in the state of Nebraska. By the way, they didn't they charged him with a law under quarreling, which is a crime heat of passion law. That's like a bar fight or domestic violence. But they didn't, they didn't, they didn't view Deputy Gann as operating as a police officer. They viewed him that he's just a civilian out there that just shot somebody, right? So from the very get-go, that's pretty wild, that's pretty crazy. And then just 48 hours before the trials will start, they say, Oh, this defense you thought you were going to bring, you don't get to bring it. And uh, and you were present at the trial. First, give me your impression up to trial. You know, Deputy Gann, you know his family. Tell us what they were going through.

Tiffany Yant 10:54

Yep. So I will start with um Deputy Gann worked in the Ceresco Police Department part-time with my dad. So that is my dad trained Deputy Gann when he worked for Ceresco. Um, and the night that my dad died, this is how I came to know about Deputy Gann. The night that my dad died, I couldn't get my 15-year-old daughter from home to bring her to the hospital because I was at the hospital with my mom. And Deputy Gann volunteered to go pick up my daughter and drive her the 35 minutes to the hospital to bring her to me. He volunteered for that. And um, he 10 days later was indicted by the grand jury. So while all of this is going on, and he knows all of this is going on in his own in his own life, personally and professionally, he still volunteered for that assignment. He still went and brought me my daughter. And so I came to know about Deputy Gann. I didn't know him before that happened. Um, I came to know about him after he brought my daughter to me, and I was doing thank yous um a week later and and wanting to contact him. And then I seen it on the news that he had been indicted. So then I started researching it. I reached out, and we have been very close with his family ever since then. Um so leading up to this two years that this is going on, Deputy Gann and his wife, you know, their entire life is being put under a microscope. And he can't be a police officer anymore during this time. He has to take a job an hour and a half away because he can't continue working for Seward County. He had to resign when he was indicted. He had to post bail. He, you know, I mean, all he has to pay for an attorney for a defense. And this is just looming over him and his wife. And they're in their late 20s, right? Their marriage had just begun. They actually got married after he was indicted because their wedding date had already been set. So, I mean, you have to think about that. He was several months after he was indicted. That's when his wedding date had been set a year before that. It's crazy that this whole thing just took over his life. He went to work that day, he did his job, he chose to be able to come home to his family. He made sure that he was able to hold the line for the public. And then his entire life stopped. Right? The life he knew, the life that he had planned, stopped that day that he was indicted. And so they are the strongest people I know. They are so much stronger than our family has been because they had to do this and they had to prepare for this trial for two years by themselves, right? They couldn't talk to their friends or their families about the details of the incident. They couldn't talk to anybody other than their attorney about their attorneys, about all the things that they knew that we didn't know, right? That had transpired that day and the defense they were going to use. And so they were kind of in this little bubble by themselves where there was nobody that was truly there for them because nobody was able to have the insight or the the knowings of what happened, right?

Travis Yates 14:08

Yeah, just to explain, just to explain our audience. So if you're indicted on a felony, you sort of lose the law enforcement connection. The people in the department really can't be around you and talk to you because there's policies about you know associating with people that are you know being investigated on felonies. And so it's not their fault, but the pa, so this is not just about deaf being, this happens to officers across the country. These these things occur, and then their entire world is not only uprooted, but their friendship circle is gone. That their their connection to support is gone. And you're right, they're sort of out there on an island.

xperts Blocked And Defense Gutted

Tiffany Yant 14:42

Right. And you know, so because Seward is a smaller department, you have to think about it from that aspect, right? His friends were law enforcement from Seward County, his friends were law enforcement from Lincoln, from Lancaster, from Omaha. Like that is the group of people that him and his wife associated with because when you're in law enforcement, you're in law enforcement. That is who you associate with on and off duty. And so they were no longer allowed to be able to talk to those people. There was actually a court order stating that they could not socialize or speak to or be friends with or, you know, outside of that working relationship, um, with people that were now being called to testify either for him or against him, right? So you're not just talking about a coworker, you're talking about people that they considered their friends, their family, their blue family, is now not able to be there to support them during the probably most trying part of their of their life. Um, so so we stood in and we have been very supportive of Deputy Gann and his family um throughout this entire process. We we he has attended all of the events that he can attend with our family for memorials and things like that for my dad. Um, we sat through every second of this trial behind his wife. We sat behind his wife because the injustice that I feel has transpired, even by him being indicted, was an injustice.

Travis Yates 16:19

Yeah, let's stop right there before we get to trial. So, once again, the right before the trial or Friday before, this is the mental leaps they had to make to get rid of his defense. In Nebraska, you have to be able to prove that an expert's testimony is not relevant. You have to be able to say that uh that that they will not be able to assist the jury in understanding what they're seeing. Now that's insane. Say what you want about me, but Jeff Martin is one of the foremost experts in video technology and use of force. And there's also things that were placed in that order that just simply weren't true. They said I was combative in a deposition. Now, if that's recorded, you can look it up. I wasn't combative. And they said that we overinflated our resumes, which is insane. If anybody, if anything, over 30 years of law enforcement, and Jeff Martin has even more than that, there's plenty of things we couldn't even put in a resume. And so it's really insane what they did to sort of cut the legs out of the defense. Now, if this was a straight up case, why are they doing that, right? And so I want the public to understand this is listen, this isn't just about we're holding law enforcement accountable, in my opinion. This is about let's put let's make them the most disadvantaged defendant we can. Because I don't see this happening to civilians that can't that that aren't able to, you know, mount their own defense and use their own expert witnesses. And of course, a judge made the decision based on a prosecutor's recommendation. You'll have to decide yourself on why that is. But it certainly seems from our viewpoint, Tiffany, that they were doing this to hurt the defense. I don't know how you can't argue otherwise because you lose the entire defense that you have. And so let's start with the trial, Tiffany. You were there for every bit of the trial, and Jeff Martin was there for most of the trial as well. Kind of tell us sort of how that went, what you saw happening, uh, give us your opinion on that.

Tiffany Yant 18:06

Um, I have never seen something so sickening in my entire life. I used to go and sit with my dad while he did court security or while he testified as a police officer. I spent many of my youth um in a courtroom watching my dad testify. Um, and I have never seen something so sickening and outraging in my entire life. Um, Deputy Gann was not allowed a defense. It's not even that he wasn't allowed the defense that he had wanted to use. He wasn't allowed a defense at all. How are you going to get up and argue that a police officer has a duty, obligate, and obligation to retreat? That is what the county attorney's argument was, that he had an obligation and a duty to retreat. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard before in my life. There is no way that law enforcement has an obligation or a duty to retreat. Yeah, if that's the case.

Travis Yates 19:10

Because they've been made to believe this through the media, through attorneys, through you're right. There is nothing remotely close in case law or the law that says law enforcement has a duty to retreat, because that would be insane. Civilians potentially may have a duty to sort of retreat, but law enforcement acting under the color of law to protect the protect the lives of others can't have a duty retreat, or law enforcement wouldn't protect the lives of others. And so, but that's the argument.

Tiffany Yant 19:37

But to put that put that in perspective, okay. If that was the case, then my dad had the the duty and the obligation to not pull over that driver that night, and he could have just gone halfway back to Ceresco. Yep, he didn't have to stop the driver that was driving 100 miles per hour in front of him. His duty was to that's that's not safe. It's not safe for me to be able to do that.

Travis Yates 19:59

You understand now why the ex, in my opinion, why the experts weren't allowed to testify because we would have blown that up so wide if they said that in front of us, because there's no support for that at all in any law, any case law. By the way, use of force case law is extensive, it's not like there's new things here, and so that would have been exposed at the highest level. But you're saying the prosecutor just got to say that, and there was very little you could say against it.

Tiffany Yant 20:26

There was nothing we could say against it because Deputy Gann was not allowed, his team was not allowed to say that's not true. We can show that that's not true. We have a witness that will compute that.

Travis Yates 20:42

Well, yeah, and we also have a policy that shows it's not true.

Tiffany Yant 20:45

We have policy and procedures for Nebraska law enforcement that says you do you are he was they weren't even allowed, Deputy Gann was not even allowed to have the statement that he signed when he became a sworn law enforcement officer that says to uphold and protect to whatever, whatever that wording is, he was not allowed to show the statement that he signed when he became a sworn police officer.

Travis Yates 21:16

That says you'll give your life up if need be to protect citizens.

Tiffany Yant 21:19

Yes. He was not allowed to even to even use that as evidence, right? Right. So the the duty to protect the the obligation and the duty to retreat, that the county attorney argued, that to my family, my mother and I sitting there as the wife and the daughter of an officer that died in Lancaster County. So the very same county that this is being this is going on in, that was the biggest sign of disrespect that I have ever seen before ever. Because he is saying that my dad died for no reason. He could have retreated, he could have with home. He did not have to be actively doing his job. That is what our family, our opinion of that argument, Pat Condon said that day. That's what he was saying. And I also understand Tiffany. Officer Ross Bartlett died for no reason. He could have chose to go home.

Travis Yates 22:15

And I I also understand, Tiffany, uh, from impressions from the trial that that the DA downplayed the high. I mean, it was a crazy pursuit. It was 100 plus miles an hour all the way down the interstate. But he that they actually downplayed that like it wasn't dangerous. You were there. Tell us about that.

he “Duty To Retreat” Claim

Tiffany Yant 22:31

So that was the other hardest part of sitting through that trial, is my dad was killed by a willful, reckless driver. So the reckless driver in my dad's case that caused his death was not driving 100 miles per hour. He was on his phone. But the driver my dad had pulled over had been driving 100 miles per hour. So for Pat Condon, who is also the same county attorney that prosecuted the driver in my dad's case for felony, willful, reckless driving, for Pat Condon to get up there and look the jury in the eye and tell them that the suspect in Anthony Gann's pursuit was not driving willfully or recklessly according to Nebraska law, is insane to me because that driver was driving 100 miles per hour. He was fleeing law enforcement, he had blown through a stop sign, and he was under the use of mess. So all of those things actually, that is what willful reckless driving in Nebraska is. That is the very definition of willful request driving. So for the county attorney to get up there and downplay that and try to make it sound like, well, he really what he didn't cause an accident for somebody else. He didn't hurt the public. He wasn't causing harm to the public. There was no safety risk for the public, is insane. That is the county attorney's office taking the laws in Nebraska and rewording them and defining them on how he thinks he can win a case. And that is not his job. In my opinion, the county attorney's job is to take the laws in the state of Nebraska and prosecute anyone that breaks them, regardless of whether or not he can win the case.

Travis Yates 24:20

And I think I think the reason it's so important we're talking about this, because this, yeah, this is about what happened in Seward County, but this is not unique to Seward County. I mean, this is happening across the country, the law enforcement officers. Uh, as an expert witness, I see these types of things happening to law enforcement across the country. Uh, quite frankly, the the demand by the DA to get rid of the expert witnesses is not unique. It kind of happens in all the cases, but very rarely does a judge not see that for what it is. Because if if this would have gone the wrong way at trial, there were dozens of appeal opportunities because the appellate court would have looked at this and said, What in the world is going on? So, in my in my opinion, this really wasn't about a police accountability or sustaining a conviction, because this was I just when let when I look at all all of the appeals across the country, this thing more than likely would have been kicked right back to the to the district court because you just can't you just can't do you just can't take defenses away from defendants, whether it's a police officer or a civilian. And so I I it's it really is outrageous. I don't think people understand what's happening to law enforcement out there. And of course, the the end user just sees, oh my gosh, uh the deputy was acquitted. So there's there's problems in law enforcement. Well, no, he should have never been, in my opinion and yours, brought up trial in the first place. The decision should have been made, just like the sheriff made it. This was a justified legal shooting. Or, worst case scenario, DAs, bring in some experts to give you an opinion about what it is because there are DAs that do that. I have talked to DAs about that in the past. They show me a case because they don't have a clear understanding all the time, and they get the opinion of experts. And you know what? I don't even know the answer to this. I don't think the prosecutor probably even had an expert because I don't know of any experts that would have said it was out of policy or against the law. Did they have an expert on their side?

Tiffany Yant 26:16

For use of force, no, for sudden quarrel, no. Um, they twisted the testimony from the um, I believe it's called an SIT team, the SIT team. They they used his testimony. Um and you could really tell. So that that was their first witness, and you could really tell that um that he was an officer. That's what the sit team is. They review it. It's a special task force that reviews it.

Travis Yates 26:50

Yeah, but didn't they find that appropriate? That report.

Tiffany Yant 26:54

Um, so I don't think he testified the way the county attorney had anticipated he was going to testify because the county attorney was very, very flush flustered and frustrated um when that officer testified, because I do not believe that the officer testified in the manner that the county attorney had prepped him to testify. But that was really other than that, and the the video specialist that they had, those were really the only wait a minute.

Travis Yates 27:25

So they they had a video specialist, they were allowed to have a but they blocked, they blocked the video expert from Deputy Gann.

Tiffany Yant 27:33

Yes, so um the the prosecution was allowed a very lengthy um video expert.

Travis Yates 27:40

Um, who came up with me I Tiffany, I apologize, but when I read the order from the judge, the order says there's no need for these video experts, the jury can just decide on their own what they're seeing because obviously civilians have a clear understanding of police use of force. No, they don't. The studies show that the studies show that about 50% of civilians will rule in policy or legal shootings out of policy because they why would they have an understanding? They don't understand it, they don't know so they blocked the video expert for Deputy Gann, but the DA was able to bring in his video expert. That's what you're telling me.

Tiffany Yant 28:15

Yep, yes, and that video expert actually did he was an audio video recording expert or whatever, but he actually took all of the audio out of the body camera video, and just all you could hear were the gunshots.

Travis Yates 28:33

Okay, that was let me let me explain to the audience. If you take the audio out of the video, you're not hearing these repeated commands from the officers to show them the hands, you're not hearing the the voice inflex of the officers where they clearly were in fear of their life. It was clear listening to the audio, the mindset. In fact, when Deputy Gann started approaching the car, he literally jumped because he was so fearful, in my opinion, when you look at that. So by taking the audio out, you you're trying to give the impression to a jury that that fear wasn't there. You're telling me they did not provide the audio from the video to the to the jury.

Tiffany Yant 29:11

No, they did. They did provide the audio multiple times to the jury. However, during this expert's testimony, his whole testimony was based on the fact that he did some fancy things and took the audio out because what, in my opinion, the county attorney wanted the result of that testimony to be was the gunshot after gunshot after gunshot after gunshot. That's what he wanted the jury to hear. Yeah, yeah, was no, no video, no audio, just the gunshots going off bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, yeah, for those however many seconds.

Travis Yates 29:52

And I don't know if that's anything. And like I said, for the audience, I apologize. We're kind of talking over each other, but we we got to get this in and kind of give it to you in order. But I don't even know if they did this. But the other trick that's often played around the country is they'll they'll show a still image with no contact, they'll just show a still image. So do they ever blow up a still image uh for the jury to see, or they leave it there the whole time? What is what do you see with that?

Tiffany Yant 30:15

Um, yeah, they did that a lot. My favorite thing, though, was the fact that they were Monday quarterbacking the body cam and the dash cam videos and audios, right? So they're pausing it, they're zooming in, they're they're replaying it, they're watching it a hundred thousand times over the course of two years, right? And they're they're zooming in and they're stopping it, and they're at you know, 15 minutes, five seconds, whatever the time frame is, and they're pausing it right there.

Travis Yates 30:45

They're like, Deputy Gan had milliseconds. Yeah, he didn't have to do that.

Tiffany Yant 30:49

He did not have the opportunity to zoom in, he did not have the opportunity to look at it from another angle, he did not have the opportunity to see it from Officer Parmer's perspective, he did not have the opportunity to see it from his dash cam's perspective. He did not get to Monday morning quarterback this body cam and audio footage for our audience.

ideo Tricks And Hindsight Bias

Travis Yates 31:13

That's called hindsight bias. And the Supreme Court in Gramby Connor specifically says that they give deference to officers having to make split-second decisions, and you cannot judge their behavior based on information you know after the fact. It sounds like they were trying to impress with the jury and pull all of that in.

Tiffany Yant 31:30

They absolutely were, because again, they I don't know how many times, I probably I lost count how many times that the prosecution played the the video, the audio, the video, the body cam, the dash cam. I don't even know how many times to the point where me as a daughter of a fallen police officer, I was kind of immune to it by the end of the trial. Like it didn't, it didn't shock me. It didn't, I wasn't like, this is so hard, because the first few times it was hard to watch because I was like, I believe blue, right? This is hard. Um, but they played it so much throughout their case that I was kind of immune to it by the end. And I'm like, what are we even looking at? Stop playing it. We've all heard it, we've seen it, you've played it 500 times. Um, but they were 100% wanting the jury to look at it from the perspective of hindsight, right? Deputy Gann did not have that opportunity. He did not get to zoom in on the suspect's vehicle and zoom in to see if he had a gun or a knife. He was not given that opportunity. That is not how it works, that is not what law enforcement does. He had milliseconds, milliseconds to determine whether or not he had to fire his weapon. That's it. Milliseconds. Everything that we watched in those videos after that, after he made that decision is irrelevant. He did not get to zoom it in, he did not get to replay it. He did not, he that is not how it works in law enforcement. You have to decide right then and there.

Travis Yates 33:12

I can't imagine the frustration of sitting there facing 20 plus years in prison knowing they're saying these things and doing these things, and you could say very little about it. I mean, I'm sure you were frustrated, but what was the overall feeling during this week when they were doing this?

Tiffany Yant 33:29

Um, you know, I don't know how WD Gann and his wife were as stoic and as respectful for the justice system um as they were, because I don't know. I don't it took everything I had to not yell and scream and and and and object to the entire process. Um so they they were very stoic and they were very respectful of the system, and they they were carrying a weight that they did not let anybody see. And if you if you were there when the the not guilty verdict came back, the screams that came out of Deputy Gann and his wife, the the the tears and the screams and the the exacerbation and that shows you how much of that weight they had to carry by themselves. Yes, they had a huge team there supporting them, but they could not let us know how upset and frustrating and scared. Scared.

Travis Yates 34:35

It'd be one thing, Tiffany, to go to go into this trial with your defense, you would still be frightened. A 20-something-year-old deputy facing, you know, another 20 years in prison away from his family. Uh, but then to go into it knowing that what you've prepared for, you can't even present, and then uh in uh, you know, and then this, and then what sort of in our opinion, the games that were being played there, and like I said, it's not even our opinion. I mean, anybody listening to this would kind of shake their head of what's going on. This is not unique to Seward County. I'm telling you, we're not picking on Sewer County. This is how it was Lancaster County, but yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry, Lancaster County.

Tiffany Yant 35:15

Here's here's my thing as a civilian, okay, as a civilian in a defund the police freaking world that we live in, because that is the world we live in, unfortunately. The fact that 12 civilians came back with a not guilty verdict without a defense shows me that this is not just my opinion. What I feel, the injustice that transpired in that courtroom that week, the jury felt it too. They saw it because they gave a not guilty verdict with Anthony Gann not being able to defend himself.

Travis Yates 35:51

And then they and they decided it in two hours.

Tiffany Yant 35:54

In two hours, to the point where jurors came up and hugged Anthony Gann and told him they were so sorry for what he had had to go through.

Travis Yates 36:06

Yeah, after it was done. In a world where so many people don't want to be courageous, they don't want to make decisions. You have 12 jurors.

Tiffany Yant 36:14

And they don't want to support law enforcement.

Travis Yates 36:16

Yes. You have 12 jurors that were not given the benefit of any experts to talk about what they're seeing. They were not given the ability to see all the information, you know, policy and training and video analysis and what Grammy Connor says, and how officers are trained in use of force, how Deputy Gann was trained in use of force. They didn't have any of that information, but something happened there where they thought to themselves, this isn't right. That says a lot, doesn't it?

Tiffany Yant 36:41

Right. And from what I have been in uh told is that the jury only asked one question um when they were deliberating, and it had to do with the sudden quarrel. So what this entire case came down to, in my opinion, is the lack of the fact that the defense was not allowed to offer a defense, right? I think that held weight with the jury because they're like, what do you mean you don't have you're not calling any witnesses? Okay, right. The other thing is the sudden quarrel. I think the jury sat there and said, okay, so if any time a law enforcement officer interacts with a suspect, it's a sudden quarrel. Then every defendant in the country is going to say, he had a vendetta against me. I he hated me, he looked me out. That is not how our law enforcement operates. It's not a sudden quarrel, okay? Your any interaction you have with law enforcement cannot, in a perfect world, in a world where we want our justice system to work, cannot be seen as a sudden quarrel because otherwise, how how are our law enforcement officers arresting anybody? Are they now going to be indicted every time they make an arrest?

Travis Yates 38:01

Yeah, in Nebraska, this is what a sudden quarrel is by statute. It's considered a provocation that would cause a reasonable person to lose normal self-control and kill someone in the heat of passion. I think anyone with a few brain cells would know, and the jury obviously knew that does not apply to law enforcement, but they brought that charge up, in my opinion, because there was no other charges they could have brought up. This whole thing was designed to put Deputy Gann through hell, in my opinion, if you're listening, DA, in my opinion, and I don't know how you could even argue that.

Tiffany Yant 38:37

So I definitely do feel like I I'm not gonna say that the county attorney has a personal vendetta against Deputy Gann, because I don't know that. He went out of his way to do that.

Travis Yates 39:10

Well, and I think going out of his way, and what you're meaning there is, is he could have just made just so our audience knows, the DA can just make a decision not to bring charges and clear the officer. That happens all the time. But he made the decision to send it to a grand jury for them to make a decision. So, yeah, that's that's in in my opinion, that's kind of going out of your way to bring charges because as a DA, you can look at this case, look at what the sheriff said, look at what some other opinions of experts said, and said, Yeah, there's no there's no criminal action here, and just cleared the officer right then there. There's no mandate in Nebraska to send every officer involved shooting to a grand jury.

ast Acquittal And Jury Reaction

Tiffany Yant 39:45

No, no, and the other the other thing I want to I understand that they the DA cannot pick their victim, right? They don't get to pick the victim, the victim is the victim, that is the way it is. But law enforcement doesn't get to pick their suspect either. Okay, law enforcement doesn't get to pick. Deputy Gann saw somebody breaking the law, he saw somebody breaking the law, and it is his job, and it is his duty, and it is his obligation to arrest that person or whatever, whatever they transpires. But that is, he doesn't get to pick the suspect. But the fact that Deputy Gann was not allowed, his defense was not allowed to mention that this suspect was illegal. He was not allowed to mention that he was on mess, he was not allowed to mention that he, we had a a witness that was going to testify that she was being sex trafficked by the suspect. She wasn't allowed to testify, she wasn't allowed to get up there and say he was sex trafficking me. They were not allowed to talk about all of the drugs that were found.

Travis Yates 40:56

And in the investigation, there was a witness that that said that he had been suicidal, uh, which could have explained his his action. So were were they allowed to bring that witness on? Which, by the way, the reason that's important is that explains potential motive on why the suspect was acting the way suspect because if you watch this video, this suspect was really acting wild. It would give almost a it would give a reasonable person, in my opinion, the belief that obviously this is dangerous. Obviously, the jury agrees with me and agrees with you because they saw the video. Yeah, this whole thing's insane. That none of that they they couldn't bring any of that information up. I mean, it's just so insane. And once again, I want to just reiterate this is not just at this case, this this type of thing is occurring across law enforcement, and it makes it begs the question, Tiffany, how could a Lancaster county sworn personnel work in that county without being scared to death that they'll find themselves facing manslaughter charges? In your opinion, how would you be able to do that?

Tiffany Yant 42:13

You can't. Wall that day that the jury came back was amazing for us and our relationship with WDGAN and WDGAN and his family. It was a tragedy for law enforcement. Because now every law enforcement officer in Lancaster County, in Nebraska, in the country, will hesitate before they protect themselves and others. They will hesitate because of this case, because this case was brought forth. They will hesitate. There is no way that they won't. Because now instead of just worrying about whether or not they have to hold the line and die and never see their family again to protect the public, they now have to worry about if I do go home, if I do use deadly force and make it home to my family, will I have to spend the next two years of my life fighting to not spend the next 20 years of my life in prison? And I'm sorry, but the fact that the county attorney brought this case forth is going to cause all law enforcement officers to hesitate. They will. They're human, they will hesitate, and that is an injustice.

Travis Yates 43:32

There is no that is harmful. We see that in the research, we see that in the data, we see hesitation a lot. Um, and it wouldn't just be a Lancaster County officer. Any officer that sees this case goes, could this happen to me? And if it happens in Nebraska, it could happen anywhere. I mean, this is not like a cop hating county, right?

Tiffany Yant 43:53

So no, no, and the DA part of his campaign this year is that he supports law enforcement and And my question to him, if he listens to this, is please call me and explain to me how you can stand there and say that you support law enforcement after what you did to Deputy Gann.

Travis Yates 44:10

You know, two things can be true at once. Uh, this could be a tragedy where a man was killed, and this could be a legal justified shooting. Two things can be true.

Tiffany Yant 44:19

Um I truly believe that that is that is it is a tragedy that this man died by the hands of Deputy Gann. But at the same time, he had multiple opportunities to follow law enforcement commands. The passenger exited the vehicle and followed law enforcement commands, and she's alive. We have zero reason to believe that if this suspect would have shown his hands and exited the vehicle when he was asked to, that he would not be alive, hopefully sitting in prison somewhere for all of the lost Hebrew.

Travis Yates 44:56

I I have to think, I mean, I'm just gonna tell you from my heart, God was involved in this because for a jury to come back in two hours without even getting to hear a defense is uh it's pretty amazing. I mean, it really is. And so God was God was um involved in this. But my question to you, Tiffany, is how can the public get involved in this? Because this is not just happening in Lancaster County. How can we protect our officers better? How can we hold public officials accountable?

he Chilling Effect On Policing

Tiffany Yant 45:27

So, you know, I don't have a good answer for that, Travis, because I am still in shock trying to figure out how we even got here. Right. I am still in shock trying to figure out how did this even happen to begin with. Um, so I think it it really starts with hold your public officials accountable. If they say that they support something, make sure they do. Make sure they do, because I'm sorry, but I do not personally believe that Pat Condon supports law enforcement. I I truly believe in a defund the police world, he saw an opportunity to put a law enforcement officer in prison, and he thought that was going to help him get votes with the defund the police world we live in. He I that is that is my personal belief. I don't know if that's true, but that is what I believe. He saw an opportunity where he could get up and he could crucify a law enforcement officer and win over the defund the police public.

Travis Yates 46:32

Yeah, and it's hard to I I won't even try to put myself in his mind. I'm not sure you have a big defund the police movement in the Omaha metropolitan area, but um, I can say this DAs are human just like police officers, and they can make mistakes. Uh, I think there were multiple opportunities throughout the course of these two years for him to recognize a mistake being made, but that unfortunately didn't occur.

Tiffany Yant 46:58

No, and like I said, during the trial, he went out of his way to not allow Deputy Gann to have a defense. He went out of his way to not really like allow the jury to fully understand what being a police officer meant. You know, and the the other disrespect that I truly believe, and I feel like it is worth being noted because I think it carried a lot of weight with the jury was during our closing argument, our attorney had uh put up on the screen the thin blue line flag and said, you know, Deputy Gann was holding this line. That's what he was saying, and Pat Conn objected to it, and it wasn't allowed to be shown anymore. He objected to the use of the thin blue line flag.

Travis Yates 47:48

Because Tiffany, it's just a public quarreling charge. I mean, it was just a barfy, right? I mean, this wasn't a law. He wasn't wearing a uniform in a police car. Yeah, he's not wearing a badge. Come on, this is just public quarreling.

Tiffany Yant 48:03

Yep.

Travis Yates 48:04

The whole thing is so ridiculous, but it's not ridiculous.

Tiffany Yant 48:07

But again, there was not a legal objection to that. That was during our closing argument. Okay, so there's he's not, we did not object, he's not supposed to be able to object during the closing argument.

Travis Yates 48:19

Yeah, you're right.

Tiffany Yant 48:20

Okay, but he did multiple times during our closing argument. And it was upheld by the judge every single time.

Travis Yates 48:31

Well, the jury obviously saw it. Thank God they didn't. I thank God they didn't. And by the way, not every jury is created equal. There's a lot of juries that would have, you know, rightfully just believed it, right? Because unfortunately, district attorneys have a lot of credibility around the country when they say something, you know.

Tiffany Yant 48:47

And I think that's my biggest, my biggest push for this is if you're listening to this and you're like, okay, why is she so fired up and so passionate about this? He was found not guilty. You're right. I am passionate and I am fired up. And and my friend was found not guilty, right? He is living his life, he is, he is free, he is with his wife. But because he was found not guilty, this still is a precedent. This, what Pat Condon said during that trial, the charges he brought, those shape future cases across the nation. Someday the state versus Gann case will be used in other court cases. People will be reciting what happened during this case. Other county attorneys will be using this case to try other officers. What he says, his words matter, his objections matter, his arguments in that courtroom mattered because what he says holds weight, it shapes our justice system.

Travis Yates 50:01

Well, and you say the deputy Gann is free, but uh, I want our audience to understand this. He's never gonna be free again because a young deputy, I put myself in his shoes as a 20-something-year-old police officer. You have a picture of what your life's gonna look like, you have a picture of what your career is gonna look like that was ripped away from him for doing his job. And yeah, he's gonna obviously he's he's not in jail, and he's gonna go on to continue to live his life, but he's never gonna live his life the way him and his wife thought he was gonna live his life. And that is a horrific thing to even discuss, but I think our audience needs to know that that's the repercussions of when these things happen.

Tiffany Yant 50:37

Absolutely, 100%. I don't know if Deputy Gann will go back into law enforcement. I have no idea. I know me personally as his friends, I hope he doesn't.

ccountability And How To Help

Travis Yates 50:51

Yeah, Tiffany, I completely understand what you say, and I could I would not disagree with Deputy Gann at all if that was his decision. I will tell you as an expert witness, even though your judge there didn't think I was an expert, which is crazy. Uh, but and Jeff Martin is even crazier. You know, say what you want about me, but uh Jeff Martin is one of the best in the business, and he was denied as well. But from looking at Deputy Gann's history, his training record, um he's one hell of an officer. The profession is in the community is gonna lose so much by not having him as a police officer. I mean, I look I look at trainings from officers across this country on a weekly basis from an expert position to judge whether, you know, to judge how that complimented or hurt their decision making. This kid had done everything right in his career. I mean, he had taken training that most officers don't even take. He had continued to take that training, he continued to certify that training. It was a training above and beyond Nebraska standards. He was one of the best of the best. And the fact that we will potentially lose him in this profession is what is what is a huge issue that nobody wants to talk about. And I I give you so much credit for being willing to talk about this because you know who's not coming on my show, Tiffany? Uh, members of the ICP, members of the FOP, members of Perth, police organizations, um, other experts, other leadership people. Nobody wants to talk about this truth. But you, a civilian, have been so open and so willing. And so I have so much respect for that. And uh, I'll give you the closing words before I do. Remember, give blue hope, give blue hope.org. They provide financial assistance to families, the first responders kill the liner duty. Go support Tiffany and what she does and give her a thank you of what she's doing here. So last word, Tiffany.

Tiffany Yant 52:40

Thank you. Um, thank you for having me. You know, I understand that there are a lot of people that should be coming on here and speaking about this. They should be reviewing the Anthony Gann case and and being outraged and and wanting to offer, you know, their opinions on it. Um, but it's like anything else with law enforcement, they don't talk about it. They don't, they don't want to talk about it. The same thing with line of duty death, they don't talk about it. Um, so for me as a civilian, if I can do this, if I can get on here and talk about it and talk about my opinions as a civilian, then I'm hoping that this will bring more of our law enforcement community to want to talk about it. I'm hoping that they're seeing the strength and the resilience that I have and and will say, you know what? We should be talking about it. We should be talking about it because this was an injustice. This should terrify every law enforcement officer in the country.

inal Thoughts And Closing

Travis Yates 53:44

The only way we fix it is to talk about it. And so I'm such an honor and blessing to speak to you, Tiffany. Give my best to Deputy Ganner and his family. And uh I know you have a lot of work there to do. You're passionate about this. Don't ever lose that passion. This is how we make things better in our communities and in our profession. And if you've been watching, you've been listening, thank you for doing that. Just remember, lead on and stay courageous.

Announcement 54:08

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