Coexisting With Wildlife

Living in the vibrant Chihuahuan Desert, we are no strangers to seeing wildlife. In this month's episode of EPAS Unleashed, we talk with Nicole Roque from Texas Parks and Wildlife about our diverse ecosystem, how we can not only live amongst but coexist with our local wildlife, and how to protect ourselves, our pets and our wildlife.

About Nicole Roque
Nicole Roque has serves as the Community Outreach Specialist at Hueco Tanks State Park and Historic Site in El Paso, Texas. She has worked within the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department for about six years, beginning her career as an AmeriCorps VISTA at the Franklin Mountains State Park focused on creating opportunities for underserved communities in the outdoors. Since beginning her journey at Hueco, she has developed a personal passion for cultural and heritage interpretation as well as community engagement. She is driven by the joy of sharing the wonders of the outdoors and culture in her community. Outside of work she enjoys cats, nature bathing, doodles, aerial arts, and letting the sun filter through her eyelids.

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Transcript

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Hi everyone, welcome back to EPAS Unleashed. I'm your host Jessica Navarro. Today we do have a very special guest with us. We are going to be talking about coexisting with wildlife. So perfect guest, have Nicole from Parks and Wildlife. So Nicole, hello, thank you so much for joining us. Hi, Jessica, thanks for having me. I'm super excited. We're excited to have you. We've never really talked too much about wildlife on EPA as unleashed. So this is definitely going to be an interesting topic to dive into. Absolutely, especially where we live. We, well, anywhere really, we're living amongst all kinds of animals, not just our household pets. Yes, definitely. And that's why we wanted to have you on because we do get a lot of questions regarding wildlife. And of course, we want to keep our community safe as well as our pets. So before we dive into all of that, let's dive into a little bit about you for our listeners. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, Nicole? Sure. My name is Nicole Roque. am actually the community engagement specialist out at Waco Tanks State Park and Historic Site. I've been working for the agency, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department for about seven years. I've made my way through pretty much all the El Paso State Parks. So I started off at the Franklin Mountain State Park. I worked for a time at the Weiler Ariel Tramway State Park. Finally ended up here at Waco Tanks. And here I serve As a community engagement specialist, I'm one of the interpreters. And that's just a fancy way of saying I am one of the educators. So we teach people all about wildlife, history, culture, and all the amazing things that our state parks and our natural areas have to offer. Awesome. Yes, mean, we met at a career day. I'm also in education. But I teach more about, of course, the domestic pets that we have. And I'm excited to learn more about wildlife because I do get those questions, like I said, sometimes from our community. So I think this is going to be a great episode. How long have you been in your position? You said that you kind of jumped around for all of the different parks that we have. Yeah, so I've been at Waco for about six years. And then before that, like I said, I served, I was actually in AmeriCorps Vista at the Franklin Mountain State Park. So I was in AmeriCorps and then I was at the Wiley -Royal Tramway. I rode the gondola up and down and I sold tickets and I worked in the gift shop and had all that fun. So I have experience with all kinds of wildlife. ecosystems even just within El Paso, right? So I went from the Franklin Mountains, which is this big urban wildlife park, but it's this big expanse of desert environment to I went to the Wilderial Tram where we also saw of course we're still in the Franklin Mountains so we saw all of your typical wildlife Chihuahuan desert animals, but because we were within the city a little bit closer within the city and we had facilities, right? We had a gift shop and we had food and stuff. We also saw a lot of what we would consider like the urban wildlife, right? So like the squirrels and the raccoons and stuff like that. And then being here at Waco, this is an even different environment. We're still within El Paso County, but because of the mountains, there is a lot of water resources out here. So we see some things that are a little bit different. Ferns and mosses and lots of like frogs and reptiles. And then really cool, we have a thriving aquatic ecosystem as well. So little shrimps and all kinds of things that live within the huecos and the tanques here. So it's been really interesting. And I think a lot of folks in El Paso, we take for granted that we have all of these amazing natural spaces. And, you know, we're always kind of surprised when we see wildlife, especially like in our urban environments. But they're right here with us. They always have been and especially as we start to grow as a community, as a city, the further we get out into the surrounding areas, the more animals that we see. Yeah, yeah, exactly. that's, like I said, the purpose of this podcast to get people more aware of what to do if they ever encounter wildlife. And you talked about some of the wildlife that you are seeing. Can you talk about any other wildlife that maybe some of your favorites? know we had our summer camp and the kiddos, they absolutely loved talking about all the different. wildlife that we see in El Paso. So you want to talk a little bit more about some different wildlife that we see. Absolutely. And it's really interesting. I go to lot of career days and community events and things like that. And I often take our pelts and our skulls and pictures of the animals that we see around here. And a lot of times people are surprised. They're like, no, we don't have deer out here. We don't have this out there. And I'm like, we absolutely do. We have very healthy populations of all kinds of animals. So big urban wildlife, especially Like within the Franklin Mountains that you're likely to see are things like mule deer. We see a lot of mule deer. I see a lot of pictures online of people posting the mule deer in their area. You might see things like foxes, raccoons, of course, lots of little rabbits. We have two very common species of rabbits, types of rabbits. We've got the little cotton tails, which are really common. And then you might see things like jackrabbits, which are those like bigger. longer rabbits. Really exciting things too. Texas Parks and Wildlife is working at bringing some bighorn sheep into the Franklin Mountains. So you might be able to see some bighorn sheep that will be reintroduced. The Franklin Mountains will serve as sort of a breeding point for reestablishing populations across Texas, which is really, really awesome. So people can yeah, people might be able to see some bighorn very soon. And if not, you'll see lots of pictures online from us. So we've got those big mammals that are pretty common to see. And then sometimes, you you get a little treat. My favorite animal out here is I am a self -proclaimed cat lady. So my favorite animal is bobcats. So every once in a while we see bobcats. I see them more often here at Wacoal and our staff and our volunteers see bobcats quite often. They are so fun. They're very elusive and they are very good at camouflaging within the environment. So when you see one, it's just so, so, so exciting. And they're a lot smaller than people think. They're about the size of like a medium sized dog -ish. They've got that little tiny bob tail, is really adorable, tufted ears, and they're spotted. They're really, really beautiful cats. And so whenever I show people bobcat skulls or pelts or whatever, their automatic response is like, it's a cheetah or it's some sort of big cat. And I'm like, no, we have wild cats here in El Paso. We do have populations of mountain lions. Those aren't as common to see, but every once in a while, especially during drought seasons, we might get a lion that comes down from the mountains, but for the most part, they are again, very elusive animals. Other animals that are really exciting. of course we have coyotes. Coyotes are another one that people commonly see within neighborhoods or when you're driving down the highways through the desert areas, you might see coyotes and things like that. And then of course we have all of our amazing reptiles. There are five species of rattlesnakes in the El Paso area. Lots and lots of lizards and all those fun things too. So I would say my favorite reptile is a horned lizard. Horned lizards are actually threatened in Texas. They're a threatened species, but we have a very, very healthy population in El Paso and in Waco Tanks especially. Every year we not only see the very well -known Texas horned lizard, we also see round -tail horned lizards, which are less common, and they're so cute, especially when they're just fresh hatchlings. They're about the size of maybe like a quarter. Adorable. They're really exciting to see. Wow, I didn't know that's small. Yeah, they can be very small. They're super cute. That's amazing. And of course, you kind of said that, you know, when there's drought season or for whatever the reason, sometimes we might encounter wildlife. What are some precautions for the community to take if they do encounter wildlife? Absolutely. So especially, you know, within like our homes and our urban environments, there are things that we can do to make sure that we are not making our yards and our, you know, houses attractive to wildlife. So, you know, when wildlife is coming out into our spaces, they're attracted by something. So things like when you leave out pet food. for instance, dog food or cat food. Wildlife might be attracted to that. Water sources as well. So if you're leaving out dog bowls and standing water, that might be something that they're attracted to. Trash as well. One of the big things is with raccoons or skunks even, a lot of people think of them as like these trash pandas. And they don't want to be trash pandas. They don't want to. I'm sure they would much rather have other things, but it's what's convenient, right? If there is an open trash can or food laying about and it's easy for them, they're opportunists. They are gonna go straight for that easy meal. things that we can do as people is definitely just make sure that we're not making our homes attracted. to some of those animals that we don't want in our yards, especially if we have like pets and things like that. And then as just like a precaution, always animals as cute as they can be, know, raccoons are adorable, foxes are really cute, they're wild animals. And we never want to approach an animal or corner an animal, anything like that. So. We just want to make sure that we are giving them their distance. We use a lot of ways to try and help people see wildlife safely. So of course, if there's babies or if they feel trapped, that can always be dangerous. We also tell people to use what we call the rule of thumb. So if you see an animal, The way that you can tell if you're too close is if you cover one eye and then you put your thumb out. If I can see the animal behind my thumb, I am too close. So the bigger the animal, of course, the further you have to be back. So that's a really great way if you're like wildlife watching or if you see happen to see something. Use that rule of thumb to decide how far you need to be from that animal. Yeah, literally the rule of thumb. and actually I learned that from you from the career day and now I use it whenever the kiddos ask me anything about wildlife. I'm like, okay, we're gonna learn what Nicole taught me. And if for whatever reason, maybe the wildlife is injured or possibly like looking sick, what should the community do? absolutely. So we have great resources. So if you see injured wildlife, contact your local game warden. And so those contacts are really readily available online. If you just you can even just Google game wardens and there's a little page that'll pop up on the TPWD website. It has you put in your zip code and it'll pop up. the list of game wardens in our area. And so we have two game wardens that serve El Paso and they're really great. So you can give them, their phone numbers are listed there, give them a call, let them know what you're seeing and they can usually make it out there or they can point you in another direction. So if it's potentially an injured animal, perhaps a raptor or something smaller, we do have wildlife rehabilitators in the area as well. And so they can help get you in contact. with one of those. What you don't want to do is ever try and approach an animal that looks injured or sick. You never want to try and trap it or anything like that. Just call someone who knows what they're dealing with and they can help you out. Yeah, so I know like you mentioned, some of the wildlife looks so, so cute and I know people want to, especially maybe kiddos, they want to help them. But the best way to help them is leave it to the professionals because you could, you know, hurt this animal further. And that would be the best thing to do is just let you, like you said, the professionals do their job and help those animals out. And then we kind of talked a little bit about making our house and our areas not attractive to wildlife and keeping pets safe. That's something that is going to keep our pets safe because if wildlife is coming into our yards, you know, they could potentially harm our pets. Here in this area, I know that the top carriers of rabies are the skunks, raccoons, bats. coyotes and foxes. So can we talk a little bit about those animals and how important it is to stay away from them? Yeah, I mean like any mammal, really any mammal can carry rabies. And so it is super important that one, he's like we mentioned already that we are not making our homes attractive. So make sure you're picking up your dog food. Make sure you're picking up your trash and things like that. And then when we have our pets out, especially if you're walking down a trail or something, it is really important that you have your animals leashed. And that is mostly important for the safety of your pet. They like to chase things and those are furry running animals and they are wild animals. They have teeth, they have nails, and so it is really important to make sure that you have your animal on a leash. We also don't want them to run off into the desert and get lost or get... poked or something like that. We also live in a very hot and dry environment. you know, making sure that we're keeping our animals within sight is really important. We also always tell people to be a good ambassador for your species. And so we don't want to taunt animals or anything like that. But if you see an animal, you know, what you should always do is kind of make yourself big. make yourself unattractive. You don't ever want to run, from anything, right? I say the same thing with, with snakes. People's first instinct is to run away from a snake. I'd always tell people don't run away from a snake. That's not going to chase you. Snakes, snakes don't chase, right? but you're very, very likely to get hurt if you're trying to run away from something. It's a really easy way to like twist an ankle or fall into a cactus or. something like that, right? So we never wanna run. So you can potentially hurt yourself, but be a good ambassador. Make yourself big, make some noise. You can yell, you can clap. And that usually startles wildlife. But as soon as you see an animal, don't even take the chance. Stop, go the other way, leave it alone. Yeah, I think that's the main point is just leave the animals alone. can, you can, exactly. And I love that you mentioned about having your pet on a leash. I hear it a lot from our community. Well, no, they're not gonna like, they know to stay with me. And I, me personally, I have a dog that I know that if I didn't have that leash on him, he would stay with me no matter what. And, but it's more about the safety of of your pet. In case there is wildlife, know, I know some of my dogs, they're just going to be sniffing and running around and all this stuff. So it's just for the safety of your pets. The leash laws are there for a reason. They're to protect our community, to protect our pets as well. And of course, wildlife. We don't want wildlife to be injured either by our pets or anything like that. Right, and I mean, you're, and that's another thing, right? Your dog or your pet may be very well behaved and very predictable, but our wildlife is not. you know, having them on a leash and making sure that we can control and move and walk away from an animal. is it will keep you and your pet safe as well. Yes, yes, definitely. And recently, I don't know if you heard about this, but there was a case of rabies that actually came from Texas for some puppies were transported to, I believe in Colorado. And one of them came back positive and it is, I believe another one came out positive as well. So unfortunately, this whole litter of know, puppies was probably exposed to a wildlife is what they're thinking, that there was maybe a skunk involved. But that's why it's super important to have your pets on a leash, to always be in control of that leash and making sure that your pets aren't going around because you'd never know what they can get into. In the case, I believe the skunk was already deceased. and these puppies somehow came across it. So it's really unfortunate. Of course, we never want our pets to encounter wildlife and have something like that happen. yeah, and I mean that's within their nature, right? They are, they're sniffers and they're trackers and they're always looking and sniffing around and getting into all kinds of things. so, you know, making sure you have them on a leash also helps you just keep an eye on them. That's really sad. Yeah, it's real unfortunate for those families that were adopting those puppies. yeah, it's just really important for us to raise that awareness and to make sure that your pets are vaccinated for rabies. That is also in place in the city of El Paso for a reason. Yeah. So it's not a fun disease to have. yeah, it's super easy to get your vaccines. Please do it. Yes, yes, definitely. And of course, we also, I want to talk a little bit about bats. That's probably one of my favorite wildlife creatures. Can we talk a little bit about them? yeah, man, I love bats too. That's another animal that you can definitely see all over the city no matter where you're at. They roost in all kinds of different places. So, you know, if you're out in the summertime at like dusk, you are really likely to see bats flying around and it's always super exciting. I always tell people it's really easy to spot bats because when they're flying, but they fly kind of like silly, right? Like they're, they kind of fly all over the place. They have a very different flight pattern than a bird. So it's really, really easy to spot a bat. But we do have many species of bats here in El Paso. At Hueco Tanks specifically, there are 15 species of bats, which is really cool. Yeah, it's really exciting. And so you're most likely to see things like pallid bats or Mexican free tails, hoary bats, canyon bats. I think pallid bats are probably the most common bats that you'll see. Though when they're flying around, they're super hard to identify. I can't identify bats, but we also have a bunch of really cool programs in the city. So keep your eye out, especially like in the summer months. Texas Parks and Wildlife, I know the Franklin Mountains and some of our community partners, like I know like Frontera Land Alliance, and I think celebration of our mountains sometimes hosts these bat walks with people from like Bat International. And so you can go out on a bat walk and learn how to ID bats. They have really, really amazing technology now. these bat identifiers, which can ID bats by the calls that they're making, which is really cool. So you can go out and kind of see what kind of bats are in the area. But bats are really, they have a bad rap, right? Like we were just talking about, we were talking about rabies and then we go to bats. And so a lot of people do, you know, associate bats with rabies or like drinking blood or you know, attacking your hair or getting in your hair. And just like I said, all mammals can carry rabies, right? And so we wanna be mindful of any animal. But just like most wildlife, bats want nothing to do with us. They're not trying to attack us or anything like that. And the majority of our bats are actually super, super beneficial. The majority of them are insect eaters, they're insectivores. So they are one of our best ways for pest control. That's like a single bat can eat something like 5 ,000 insects in a single night. So imagine all of those mosquitoes that it's eating up that we don't want biting us, right? They are very important to pollination and all kinds of things. crops that we love so very much depend on on bat pollination. So they're super cool animals and they're a lot of fun to watch. They're amazing animals too. Mammals that can fly. Give them, have some respect on them. They're super cute. wanted to focus on them a little bit because like you said, they do get a bad rap. know, I guess movies and shows just portray them as, you know, being tied to vampires or having rabies, like you said. It's a bad segue, I guess, into trying to promote the benefits or the beneficial part of bats. yeah, are really amazing. And like I said, go, you can find all kinds of really great programs. I know sometimes there are organizations that host events where you can make like a bat box. So if you wanna, yeah, if you wanna help bats, you can make a bat box. You can put it up in your yard so that bats can have a nice little safe and cozy place to roost. That's also a great way to provide an alternative. roosting place rather than them roosting in your attic or something like that. lawn furniture or umbrellas and things might be very attractive to bats. providing, sometimes those bat boxes are really cool. And so you're providing a home for a bat. And then you're also providing that alternative. Bats are really awesome too and we do, I know, have bat rehabilitators here as well. So if you, again, just like any other animal, if you find a downed bat or an injured bat, never handle a bat. Never handle bats. You can call, again, your local game wardens and they can get you in contact. think here in El Paso there is one bat specific bat rehabilitator. And so they can help get you in contact with the bat rehabilitators. But there's a lot of really great programs. I think the El Paso Zoo, I don't know if they're still doing it, but bats pollinate agave, which is really cool. And so as part of like a conservation effort, I think at the El Paso Zoo, you can adopt an agave and take it home and you like take care of it and love it and help it grow and then when it gets big enough you return it and it's going to sites where it'll be you know something that bats can can pollinate and get nectar from which is really neat. my God, that's amazing. I didn't know. I didn't know about that. these are all really great programs because it is so important to coexist with wildlife. Are there any other ways that maybe the public can help out, you know, keeping our wildlife thriving because they're not here to hurt us or anything. It's, you know, they're home as well. It's important that we understand how to coexist with them. Yeah, I think just being aware of what's going on. I know within the El Paso community, we have an amazing group of people who are doing really, really great work that have a lot of programs and educational opportunities and things for you to learn about all these things. So you can learn how to make a bat box or you can learn what kind of plants to to put in your garden or how to collect rainwater or whatever it is. So get involved, definitely get involved. Everyone has like an online presence now and you can look at things on Facebook and Instagram and like El Paso websites, but there's really great resources just within our community with all the different agencies and organizations. Everyone kind of works together and does a lot of really cool and amazing work. But just kind of knowing what's going on, especially as our city starts to grow, understanding what proposed projects are coming up. Is there anything that could be affecting our wild species? Supporting your national parks, your state parks, your public lands are also really great too. Here in Texas, we public land or private land is something like 90%. 90 % of our land in Texas is privately owned, which leaves, I know, isn't that wild? so that's with places like Big Bend, know, like it's really, really giant public space. so, you know, supporting those places, supporting your public, your parks and your national parks and You know, all of those places is also, I think, really important. And then just doing all of those things that we talked about, right? You know, being mindful of wildlife, being an advocate for them because they can't always advocate for themselves. Yeah, definitely. And also, I know that it makes me so mad to see people leave their trash behind. That is something that definitely, I think, can hurt wildlife. Do you want to talk a little bit about leaving, not leaving trash and leaving the wild area that you're in? not taking anything from it, not leaving anything behind. I know you said something during my summer camp. You have a specific little, I guess, motto. Can you talk about that? it's a common motto. It's not my motto. I can't claim it. I wish I could. But it's a common motto, especially within like parks and public lands and stuff. that's, you you take only pictures or you can take memories with you as well and you leave only footprints. So that means, you know, we are treading as lightly as possible on our land and being as kind to it as we possibly can. So leaving no trace is very important and that can be a couple of things. So just like you said, we want to make sure that we are taking anything that we take into our wild spaces with us. If you come with it, you have to leave with it. And then also, you know, that we're not taking any of the things that belong in these spaces as well. I know I tell my students when they come out on hikes, a common thing is people like to collect rocks. And I get it. I'm a total rock hound. I love rocks. Rocks are so much fun. So, you know, definitely look at a rock. You can take a picture of a rock, but you don't really know. Whose home that could be even a rock could be a home, right? You pick up rocks all the time and there's all kinds of critters that are living under it and bugs and things and it also You know helps prevent erosion as well. So when there's cover on the ground Wind and rain doesn't take all that soil and create Arroyos that that you know prevent plants from growing and things like that And so we never want to take anything with us Taking pictures, we're in an age where everyone always has a camera with them. So take a picture of it. And I think another point too that can sometimes be lost on people is you see like a cool rock or like some sort of cool thing out and that experience that you have where you're like, wow, look at this rock and you show it to your friends and you show it to your family and everyone's like, wow, like, I wonder what kind of rock this is or, you know, like it's got a, beautiful pattern on it and you have some sort of connection and some sort of wonder with that rock and potentially with your space, right? And then you take that rock and you're taking that rock, that experience, that same experience from somebody else, right? So there could be a family walking down the same trail right behind you that's not gonna have the wonder of that rock because you took it. And then what are you gonna do with it? can put it in your pocket. Maybe you're going to get home and you're going to throw it in a box or something. And it's just, it's not having that same purpose or providing that same experience for people. And I think that's something that we can all connect to, right? Like having something cool out on the trail. Yeah, and I think that's really beautiful. You the way you put it, you don't know what that rock, you know, it could be some critters home, like you said, and maybe that moment, you get overwhelmed with these feelings and then you just take it home and you put it in a box when that rock served a purpose out in the wild. So I think that's really beautiful the way that you put it. I love that. And I think it's so much fun, right? Like I'm a naturalist 100%. So I am one of those people that I go on a hike and it'll take me like an hour to walk one mile because I'm like, look at this and look at that and look at this. And I stop a lot and I, you know, like smell things and I'm looking at rocks and I'm looking at plants. And I think it's something that, you know, we should all kind of try and do is have that connection and pay a little bit more attention to our wild spaces. Cause that's how we, you know, that's how we develop a love and care for them. And I think, so right now, I think a specific thing we have, there's there's a odd dad, which is a goat that lives out here. It's an exotic invasive goat, but there's an odd dad skull and a spine. It's a dead odd dad. So there's an odd dad skull and spine that's on one of the rocks right here by my office, right by the interpretive center. so families come in all the time, like for the past few months it's been there and they'll go out there on that short little walk and to have that experience of coming across the odd dad skull and the spine is just such a wild experience for people. They're like, I saw a skull and I saw the spine and they'll come back and the amount of experience that it's provided for so many different families is wild, you know? And it could just take one person of seeing that and being like, I'm gonna take this skull home with me, because they're cool, right? They're super cool. That would rob that experience from so many families. And so they'll come back and they'll be like, I saw a skull, what is that animal? And they wanna know what it is. What could have done that? What other kind of wildlife is here? What do they eat? Where did they come from? And it just adds to, you know, this wonder of the world that's just, it's really special. Yeah, and we need more of that wonder of the world because that has kiddos being empathetic and it has them compassionate for wildlife, for domesticated animals and just people in general. So I think that that's really, important. I know that that's why I'm in this is to teach the youth how to have compassion for all living things, the smallest creatures to the biggest creatures and to for themselves and it's just really important for us to have that mindset. So I love it. Yeah, I agree. Thanks for all the work that you do. I love it. You know, I love seeing because, you know, programs like what you have at Animal Services is what's creating the stewards of our future, right? We're teaching all kinds of really important things. And I hear the things that you're teaching about, you know, making sure that your pets are vaccinated and that they're micro tripped and that I love all the advice that you give for when you come across a stray dog or something like that. These are things that these kids are gonna take home with them and take throughout their lives and it's gonna influence the they treat our world forever. So it's really exciting. Good job. you. Thank you. I know it's like a little virtual. We did also, we kind of already covered it in our episode right now, but we did have a couple public questions. We put it out there for our community to ask some questions for you, which we kind of covered, but let me go ahead and grab them out. One of our community members asked what to do if you see a wild animal lost in the neighborhood or in the middle of the street. So again, you know, want to like, I'm gonna really drive it home, leave that animal alone. Leave it alone. But if it is, if it is in an area that could be harmful to the community, harmful to the animal, call your, call your gay wardens. I think you can even call animal services, right? Yeah, call animal services, call your gay wardens and they can decide the best course of action, but please don't ever try to approach anything or trap it or try and catch it. And then also a lot of animals we don't realize live within our communities. Foxes is one that I get all the time where they're like, I saw foxes on my doorbell camera or I saw fox walking along my my rock wall or something, you And you might think that they're lost, but they're probably not. You know, they have grown to live amongst us. You know, like things like foxes and raccoons and skunks and coyotes. know, coyotes are one of the most well -adapted animals that live in pretty much every single urban environment. Some of the biggest, well, the biggest cities in the US have populations of coyotes, you know? So they're likely not lost. So just let them do their thing. Let them go about their day. But again, you know, try not to make your home attracted to them, because you definitely don't want them hanging out in your yard, especially if you have pets or kids or things like that, that can be, you know, a little bit, predictable when it comes to seeing animals. I get it, you know, I also want to pet a skunk, but it's not a very smart thing to do. Yeah. And then the next question, what's the safest way to handle coming in contact with feral wild life? So kind of similar. Yeah. And I think we kind of touched on this earlier too, and that's leave them alone. You are the human, right? That's another thing that I always tell people, like, you are the human, you are the one that can make the right decisions, right? So leave that animal alone. Don't try and corner it or anything like that. The majority of the wildlife that we'll come in contact with here in our area is not something that you necessarily need any sort of like special equipment for. If you're in bear country, know, you're backpacking in bear country, you'll probably want bear spray or a bear proof box or, you know, for your food and things like that. But the animals that we're coming across here in El Paso, in our urban environments, even in, you know, the Franklin mountains are things that really, if you leave them alone, they're leaving you alone. I have encounters with wildlife all the time. And typically as soon as they see me, they're going the other way. They want nothing to do with me. They're running away unless I happen to, know, corner them or somehow end up in, I'll tell you a story. I once dropped into a cave from above. Here at WECO we have lots of caves and crevices if you've never been, please, please, please come. It's such a beautiful, amazing space with not only amazing wildlife, but lots of history and culture. But anyway, so was hiking around, I dropped into a cave from the top and I didn't realize that there was javelinas in there and they got upset. They chattered their teeth at me and I just climbed right out of the cave, you know? Lesson learned. Never put your hands anywhere that you can't see. Never jump into any place that you can't see, because you never know what's, whose home you're coming into, right? But just be mindful. Like I said, also, if you come across an animal that seems to be, you know, aggressive for whatever reason, don't run from it. Be a good advocate for your species. Be a good representative for your species. Make yourself big, make some noise, and they should leave you alone. Awesome. And is there anything else that you would like to add on coexisting with wildlife? No, just you know, I invite you everyone to come out to Waco, to come out to the Franklin Mountains. Please use your parks. They are your parks. And so these are spaces where you can experience the ecosystem, you can experience wildlife. And I know oftentimes when we say wildlife, we think of, mountain lions and bobcats and all those really cool, charismatic animals. But walking along the trails here, you will see all kinds of insects and there's over 200 species of birds that live here, all kinds of reptiles and things. And we do offer lots of tours and programs. If you are interested in learning more about your wildlife, we do have birding tours. with the Audubon Society and we offer night hikes and we'll do like sounds of the night and things like that where people can learn more about the sounds of wildlife that they might be hearing in the night. And so people can find all of that information on our socials. We are at Waco Tanks State Park on Premage Everything or if you search up our website, we post all of our programs there. or even if you just want to come out on your own. I know that coming out into the park can be intimidating for some, especially if you don't have a ton of experience. But WIC was a really great place to kind of dip your toes in. We have amazing picnic sites, a really cute little campground. And so I invite everyone to come out and just learn more about your ecosystem, learn more about your environment. Awesome. That's amazing. I'm definitely going to check all of these programs out because they sound amazing. And with that, think we have covered pretty much everything that we wanted to with this episode. So I really want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to do this for us. And I appreciate everything that you do as well. Absolutely, thanks for having me Jessica, it was really fun. And yeah, I practically live here at WacoTanks, so come and visit us. Yes, definitely go visit Nicole. She has some amazing knowledge and I learn a lot from you every time we see each other. So I appreciate you again. But with that, thank you all so much for tuning into this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget to comment, like, subscribe and share. We'll see you next time.