Finding the Blessing in Goodbye: Grieving the Death of a Marriage

“Not only did I lose a mate, but a part of me died.” Never imagining divorce, and trying to avoid public scrutiny, Erica Banks wrestled with feelings of shock, anger, and shame. Hoping her testimony will encourage others, Erica shares her process of moving from internalizing blame to finding the “blessing in goodbye.” Her conversation with Dr. Geneus sheds light on divorce experiences and offers hope to those grappling with feelings of disappointment and loss. 

Transcript

Erica Banks 0:02

Now it's Erica as Erica, not Erica the wife. So not wanting again, not wanting to be angry, bitter, broken. I didn't want to fall into for a lack of better choice of words, the trap of let me get with this guy, that guy. I wanted to learn and grow. I wanted to learn the lessons that God had for me. I wanted to be healed before I even ventured down that road or that path.

Dr. Geneus 0:39

Thanks for gracing us with your ears today. You're listening to the Faith to Feel podcast. And I'm your host, Dr. Januas. God has so much more for us to know, experience, and do if we have the faith to feel. Faith should give us courage to feel, to have difficult conversations about our feelings, and to face challenges we might otherwise avoid. That's what this podcast is all about. As a part of the series, Grieving Out Loud, some of my listeners have asked me to talk about topics related to grief that don't have to do with the loss of someone because they died. So there's certainly other types of grief. So I'm really pleased that Erica's with me today and she's willing to talk about the grief that we experience when we experience divorce. A divorce can feel like a death. Erica was married for 11 and a half years, and she got divorced in 2014. She's had some time now to reflect on that experience. When you're in the throes of it, and you can probably speak to this, Erica. There's so much emotion and pain, it's hard to imagine that life is going to get easier or better. And that can last for a long time. And certainly you feel like a death has occurred, death of a relationship. Even if you go on to have a relationship with this person that you were married to, it's a different relationship. Maybe even a new relationship. In some cases, that's not possible either. If you could take us back to 2014, when you realized that your marriage was ending, and what was that like?

Erica Banks 2:33

Well, first, thank you for having me. Um, going back when I first realized was when I was being disserved with the divorce papers. It wasn't a choice and decision where the two of I, the two of us came together and we sat down and talked about the ups and downs. This is what's going on in the marriage. This is what would be in the best interest of not just he and I, but our children. Never in the back of my mind was it divorce that would be coming. So when you're serve divorce papers, you have children, you then have a lot of choices and decisions that you have to make. Or let me rephrase it that you feel like you have to make. And to keep all parties not necessarily safe, but to make that transition easy. The first and foremost thought was my children. I wanted them to be able to have stability and structure. And in my mind at that time, I still wanted them to still have the life that they had while we were married once the divorce happened. That is one grief in itself because things will not necessarily be the same. Because you have two individuals that came together and they brought beautiful blessings into this world where you're with one another day in, day out. The ups, the downs, you're together. It's a team. Now it's a different team dynamic. You've got one teammate over here in this household, and you've got another teammate in this household. How do you make that work? How do you answer the questions? There was a part of me that felt like I failed. I was not adequate. I was not enough of a wife for this to be happening. There had to be something wrong with me. Because again, we were married 11 and a half years. So the first thing was what was wrong with me? What did I do? What did I not provide my spouse enough of to where he had or he felt there was no other opportunity or no other way, or this is just it. This is how this is going to be the best way for me to handle it is to do it this way. That's what I did. I internalized absolutely everything. The biggest thing that I said from the very beginning was, God, whatever lesson that I need to learn, help me learn that. I don't want to be angry, I don't want to be bitter, I don't want to use my children as pawns. So help me be able to carry my pain, carry my children's pain, still be that good example because I've got children, I've got children that are very observant. So help me to handle this in the best manner that I could that I can. And it was absolutely devastating. Even though there wasn't a physical death, it was well, what now? I didn't really have time to game plan and everything like that. Within a matter of 45 minutes to an hour, I went from being married and we're all in a household to now it's you. Now it's a new journey. Part of me felt embarrassed to talk to people, my friends about it. Even when I went to church, I felt embarrassed because most churches, divorce is frowned upon. You don't, you don't get we don't get divorced, we stick it through. We take those vows, and that's what those vows are. But nobody ever steps back and says, okay, before we even get into a marriage, let's just make sure that this is exactly what we want. These aren't just empty words. It's an agreement. It's not a piece of paper. This is a commitment. Easier said than done. So got married at a very, very early age, and there were some good times. It wasn't like all bad times, there were good times. But there are times when two people come together that that's not that's not the path for them. It's not saying one person is better or one person's bad. It's just that's not the best fit, if that makes sense. So in the very beginning, because it was new, people that were close to me, I would talk because I had no clue, no idea. What do I do? Like, how do you how do you function through this type of pain? This is somebody, you know, that I was friends with before anything. How do you go to work? You know, how do you keep your head up? How do you still enjoy life when you're dealing with this? And I had a lot of advice. I had a lot of advice. I had, you know, um, some people that were just like, take your time, it's gonna be okay. I had others were like, well, you know, it's messed up, it sucks, but get back out there, get back out there in the dating team. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like wait, wait, wait. Like, I'm and I know they came from a right place. It was just to see me hurting and not knowing necessarily the right words, but the intent of I don't know what else to say or do. I just want this person to be happy. So I can definitely say, you know, there were some ups and there were some downs, and I felt blindsided, I felt angry because we're supposed to have this communication at the foundation of anything, we're supposed to be friends. So why couldn't you come and talk to me? At least sit me down and have that conversation to where I could have some say-so and feel like I had a part, I had some control. And I could, if you laid it out on the table and said this is what it is, then I could have the choice and decision to say, no, let's try to work through this. I could have the decision to be whatever, but that didn't happen. But again, that's where that the anger came in. And there was a lot of hurt, a lot, a lot of hurt. And so there would be times where that saying, fake it till you make it. I think in some situations it's great. That situation, that wasn't healthy for me. To put on that smile, and it really was an effort to try to go into work and try to be presentable and be professional when on the inside. I felt like I'm crumbling, I'm dying. I literally felt like not only did I lose a mate, but a part of me died. And in the midst of that kind of hurt and pain, it's really hard to articulate to your former spouse. And I just never will forget, just somewhere out of the blue, we were having a conversation, or as how it was shared with me, um, a heated fellowship, as somebody once phrased it to me instead of saying like an argument, a heated fellowship, you know. I like that. We had a heated fellowship, but somewhere in the midst of that, I just stopped. And out of nowhere, I just looked at him and I said, you know what? And I wasn't being sarcastic. It's one of those moments when God moves and he tells you what to say or how to do it, and then as your mouth is moving, you're like amazed, like, where is this coming from? But I knew it was nothing but the Holy Spirit, and I just looked at him in his eyes and I said, at the end of the day, bottom line, despite everything, you did me, you gave me one of the greatest gifts that you could have ever given me outside of helping me bring our children into this world, is by divorcing me. There is a gift in goodbye at that time, and this wasn't right at the very beginning. It was shortly after, you know, a little bit of time had passed, and I meant that wholeheartedly. Putting everything aside, and where I was at was trying to find the positive, find the good. It was like, okay, now it's Erica as Erica, not Erica the wife. So not wanting, again, not wanting to be angry, bitter, broken. I didn't want to fall into, for a lack of a better choice of words, the trap of let me get with this guy, that guy. I wanted to learn and grow. I wanted to learn the lessons that God had for me. I wanted to be healed before I even ventured down that road or that path. So the way that I started embracing things was rediscovering Erica, falling in love with Erica. Because now here we are, it's it's this new venture to where I'm not gonna have my kids every day. I now have to share them. And that's a hard thing. And then another thing that I had to come to the realization too is yes, I love my children and they are my absolute everything in my world, but I still had to keep God first. I still had to trust him in the midst of all of this, as weird and crazy as that may sound to others. That's exactly um what I had to do. So I started. What are some things that I what are the things that Erica likes? Not Erica as a mom. What are some things just a rediscovering? So I never will forget, I took myself on a date. Um and I was proud. I got I went to go see uh why did I get married? And I bought myself that medium popcorn, that medium sprite. But I remember being able to go see that movie because I wanted to see it, and I wasn't sitting back waiting for somebody else to say, Well, my schedule's free and I can go then. I was able to do that, wasn't ashamed, wasn't embarrassed. But one powerful thing is that's a great movie, but I was able to sit through it without being thinking about my own hurt and pain, what I was going through, certain foods, you know. Let me let me try certain things that I haven't tried before. When let's mix it up with fashion. Of course, the gym is definitely my outlet, so I definitely took my fitness to a whole nother level, you know, looking at different things that I could do besides just the cardio, pushing myself weight-wise, and then even trying to encourage others, but as I was encouraging myself, the hardest thing is in the very beginning you have friends, or you may have friends of your or your spouse may have had friends, and that that's your your spouse's friends, and so they may see you and all of that, and it's still cool, but then it's a little bit of that awkwardness. It's kind of like what things, what people don't necessarily talk about, where people may feel like they have to choose. And for me, not wanting to ever make people feel like you have to choose, I would take a step back. I had someone tell me later on that they wished I hadn't, because they they're grown, you know, they could make choices and decisions for themselves. They didn't feel like they were in the middle, they didn't want to choose. And so that by me making that choice, because that's what I felt I needed to do to protect my peace, that relationship kind of took a change in the dynamic because I didn't communicate. I just made, I just did that, I just made that choice and decision, and that was an action. And I didn't feel bad about that one, like little things like that. But every step of the way, every choice and decision that I made, I found and I learned that about myself was I was thinking about what's in the best interest of everybody else. I put everybody else first. I don't, I didn't want the kids to hurt, I didn't want them to suffer. Not realizing at the time, I I couldn't change that or take that away from them because it's a change.

Dr. Geneus 16:13

I guess I'm thinking about that you told me that you felt like you didn't have as much of a voice as you could have had, and I think that happens a lot when we are taking care of others, mothering, being a wife, being a daughter, trying to be a good servant, all those things stuff and caring for others. And it's interesting because there's a point when we make a decision to not speak our truth, that we're also in our in our own way being a little dishonest, right? Because we do have feelings, we're just kind of stuffing them, stuffing them down or not asking other people to care about them, and that can really hurt. A lot of women seem to, I shouldn't say a lot, but uh I've observed people and I've done it myself certainly, where you you prioritize other people, and not saying that we shouldn't, but it can be such an imbalance that you lose yourself, right? That we that and that that's when it becomes unhealthy. I think it's I mean, one of the things I prayed for when praying about marriage was that I could be married to someone who would notice when I wasn't okay. Because I think a lot of times you get in such a mode of caring for other people, people might not notice if they don't ask you or check with you, or if they're not observant, people can be so used to you taking care of them that they don't think to check and see if you're okay, they just assume you are because you take care of things or have these conversations with other women you know seem to find themselves this pattern. So I'm just wondering as you shared that you felt like you needed to go on a date, you needed to think about what you liked and what you wanted to do and be comfortable with that. Did you feel comfortable with Erica being alone while you were married? Because certainly, even in marriage and other relationships, even being a parent, there are moments as much as you love your family, we have our alone times, or we're even we need to have alone times with God, which we're just focusing on ourselves and what God is doing in us and what he wants us to work on in ourselves. And we can surround ourselves with so many people and their needs that somehow that gets lost, that time alone with us, with our own thoughts, what our own desires.

Erica Banks 18:47

So for me, it was complete opposite. When I was married, it would be if he's like, Well, me and the guys, we're gonna go do XYZ, because for me, I've always felt whether you're a mirror it's a marriage or it's a relationship, you've got two different individuals, and time together is great, but you also need that time apart to be yourself. So believe it or not, I enjoyed it. Go have fun. I get the remote. You know, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to compromise on what I want to watch on the big TV, you know, because what you want to watch and what I want to watch at the same time. Um, but having that boundary, I I felt okay being by myself. Um, when he would have, you know, company, like the guys would come over. I didn't feel the need to where I would have to sit up under him. They're having guy talk. Okay, you guys are having guy talk. I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go away. So being alone, that wasn't it wasn't that. It was Really thinking you have a bond and a connection, and I'm in this good, bad, indifferent. I'm in this for the long haul with somebody. And then you kind of find out you're not on the same page. Somewhere along the lines the likes changed. Or maybe the commitment. You know, it sounds, I don't think people, when they say, you know, will you marry me? And you have that conversation about marriage, and then you actually, you know, make that choice and decision. I don't think a lot of people take the time to prepare for that. Um, when I was, you know, younger, my mom and my grandma used to say, people plan the wedding, but they never plan the marriage. And at the time I never understood that. I can understand that why. I can understand that now. You know, we get so caught up in that that one day, and it's not even a full day. Yes, it's a full day of preparation, but you got a lifetime, and there's things that are gonna come against you. There are things that are gonna come against you. There are gonna be things when you're married, and how do you feel if something changes in the dynamic and the communication part? You know, you have there's certain things for me. We don't have to talk about everything. There's some things you don't have the every like little thing. There are some things to me, I feel you do have to communicate and understanding and knowing, okay, my partner may not be ready right now to have this conversation. So we need to say, okay, right now is not a good time, but we need to have that communication piece, even if it's something to where the other your spouse, you know. Let's say I didn't I didn't want to talk, but he did. So me saying, you know, now's not the right time, learning that boundary and not pushing, pushing, pushing, like let's I want to talk, I want to talk, I want to answer. That that just wasn't me. And so for the biggest thing, it was really a wake-up call in it was a choice and decision that I made looking back on it, not fully mature and wise enough to say maybe we need to wait a little bit. There's still some growth within us both. Because again, we're we're young. We were young. Um, it's no excuse, it's it's facts. Not saying that you can't get young, married at a young age and it did not last. But I think for me, the biggest thing was I felt like everybody was looking, everybody was judging, nobody was expecting it. Again, I was married 11 and a half years, so it was like, okay, I've gone from a wife to a single woman. And everybody's talking about this single woman life, and woo, it's this greatest thing. And I'm like, oh no, it's not, it's scary, it's scary. Like, you know. Um, I just wanted to take that time to rediscover, rediscover me, get back to the woman that somewhere along the line, a part of me, I did lose a part of me.

Dr. Geneus 23:41

What do you what would you say is or was the the hardest part of of realizing or realizing the marriage was over or the experience of the marriage being over? What was the hardest part?

Erica Banks 24:00

Just facing that reality and I've had and I had kids. It wasn't something that I had planned or thought was going to come. Any in my mind, any problems or situations that arose it could be work through. But there were some things that occurred that it was a pattern. And I had to say, okay, this is not good, it's not healthy, and to be accepting of that. So I I think for me the hardest part in reality was what I thought I had, the reality of it wasn't.

Dr. Geneus 24:55

You mentioned the the very public nature of divorce and that people often feel like they need to pick sides, and often people do, and even look for who's to blame in the separation, and and that searching for who's to blame, oftentimes people will ask you questions, even maybe demand answers, people close to you. I think that's a really interesting and tough part of it. The public nature, feeling like you need to explain your your life is suddenly completely different than you thought it was, or different than you planned, and everybody knows it, and you're adjusting and also having to answer questions.

Erica Banks 25:39

But you not to cut you off, not to cut you off. You said something really quick when you said asking questions and demand answers. In the very beginning, that's how I was. Because a choice and decision was made. But that choice and decision that was made that impacted me and our kids. And so to be like, well, this, you know, to make a choice and decision, it was kind of like I wanted answers.

Dr. Geneus 26:08

You're saying you wanted answers from your spouse. Not so even with other people, were you kind of trying to get information from them as well that you thought might know what happened?

Erica Banks 26:19

Not try to get information, but I think for me, it was just like I don't want to say it comfort going to the wrong people for closure, if that makes sense. People that were close. So help me bring closure because I I can't get closure from this person that I that I need. And I never will forget, I can't remember what I was listening to, but it was something, and it was just like something along the lines with sometimes we have to get forgive people who are not sorry. Sometimes we have to create the closure ourselves that another party is either not willing or capable of. So I never wanted to block my blessings. It was never, I don't want to be vengeful or spiteful or like err. It was just like, okay, at the end of the day, and I don't, and this was it took years. It took years. There would be times I would see certain things and I would just break down and I would just want to cry on the inside. But then it just got to a point where it was just like it is what it is.

Dr. Geneus 27:34

Now, what do you what do you think? What was that point when you realized that you were something had happened where you were becoming you're coming into a new life of a as a single mother divorced, and you were realizing that a shift happened where it was becoming okay? You were sad, it wasn't what you expected, but you were it was starting to be okay. Do you remember what was it a shift in your thinking? Was it something that happened, or was it just time?

Erica Banks 28:09

It's definitely a shift in my thinking, and the people, you know, really, really closest to me. And my mom has always, you know, said, you'll know when you'll you've had enough. And she wasn't saying, and I'm not saying about the divorce, but just anything that I've gone through in life, you know, you know when you've had enough. And I just got sick and tired and sick and tired of crying. And I knew this this can't be what God would want for me. And it was like, Erica, come on. You got you've got kids, you know, you've got you've got daughters that are watching you, and Lord forbid that they go through this. But if they did, how would you want them to handle it? That's when it was the wake-up call. What if the tables were turned and this was one of your children? What would how would you want them not tell them, but what are some things that you would want them to do? And in that that was definitely the shift. Like I would just I would not want them to give so much of yourself to where if it doesn't work out, to where it just it just breaks you. You just like, okay, what am I supposed to do? Who am I? And that's an that's another reason why when it comes to you know, relationships now, even if it's friendships, you it starts with you first, loving you first. You can't, at least to me, be in a relationship and be looking to someone else to give you something that you may be lacking. It starts with you, that like loving yourself. This other person that comes into my life, you're an added, you're an addition to that. You're that blessing. So I can I can't say like the exact moment, but it was the shifting in in in the thought process. Like, are you like it was just enough? It's it was becoming too much of a challenge to try to smile, be out in public, and you're seeing family, you know, I'm at the park with my kids and I'm by myself, but then you see a mom and a dad, and you see, you know, the ring and you see the family, and it does not mean that life is dead and gone. It's just a new chapter. And so starting, you know, at that moment, let's just be happy, let's let's let's create new memories, let's create new traditions and just build, build from there. And so, you know, reaching out, and I think it was just to have that network and that support, and that's something that's going to that could possibly change too. At least for me, it did when I got divorced. My support system changed. Not that it was a bad thing, but it just changed. And then having to adjust with that because a lot of people don't realize, okay, when there's a divorce, you've got two people that are going to that are separate ways, but it doesn't just affect those two people, even if there's not kids involved. It affects the whole family, friends.

Dr. Geneus 31:49

What do you? I recently had a conversation with someone who's going through separation, probably gonna get divorced, and she shared some things with me that I found really shocking. And I found myself sort of talking out loud and saying, Well, what do you mean? Like, what is what is this? You know, asking her questions, really direct, you know, very personal questions. And I'm thankful that I realized it wasn't my place. She didn't owe me an explanation, and so I tried to stop myself. And I do pray that she genuinely heard me that I kind of immediately said, I'm I'm sorry, I'm just talking out loud, I'm I'm speaking out of shock, you know, concern, and I I don't have a right to ask you these questions, and you don't owe me an explanation, you know. But so often I think that's one of the really painful spaces in these situations, are that, as you said, you feel like a lot of people are judging you instead of supporting you? Having gone through this experience, and and people have aspects of their separations and divorces and relationships that are unique. So not saying that you're speaking for everybody who's had this experience. But what how should we support people? How should your Christian community, your friends, your family, what do you what kind of support do you think someone needs when they're going through a divorce?

Erica Banks 33:26

Let that person be the lead. And before I continue with that, I'll say this speaking from having been through exactly what you said, I was in a very vulnerable state. And it's funny because me and mommy just had, we were just talking about this yesterday. I'm wise, I'm wiser now to be able to pick up on that. But at that time, when I was asked those questions, because the people that were asking me those questions and they were so close, I was answering them. There was something in me, I don't know, no, I do know. It was like a release, it was my way of venting, my therapy. But it kind of bit me in the butt later on because not everybody has the best intention. So I would say to be the support, let that person take the lead. Anything that they need, you know, let them tell you. Check on them if it's nothing more than, hey, you are on my mind. Hey, do you want to do you know something? Don't give unsolicited advice. Because every divorce is different, every situation is different. You may not have somebody that will tell you. You know, some people they go through divorces and you it's amicable and it's smooth, easy peasy, lemon squeezy. You've got some that get real down and nasty and dirty, and so you've got just got to be mindful of that. It's interesting.

Dr. Geneus 35:11

Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just thinking, we're talking about um venting. I know, even when you're married, this might be something that had you know leads you to divorce. Is you get up, you get upset with our spouse, you marry this person, you say you love them, you you know, if you're a Christian, you're making a commitment not just to that person but to God, and you you have all these hopes, and yeah, you I mean, this person is somebody you put before other people, you love them so much, and then conflict arises. It's just so interesting how you can be we can become one another's or each other's enemies so quickly. This person that we profess to love so much, like how the tables can turn so fast, and a lot of times when we're upset, you can vent to other people and say, This is what they did to me, and I'm so mad. And you just want somebody to affirm you, tell you you're right, want to be right, and we can rehearse and keep a record of another person's wrongdoing. And even, especially if somebody really you really felt feels someone has wronged you, and there is this separation, you are aggrieving, you might go to people and sort of read the list, the laundry list of some of the things, people you trust, even. And there could be some danger in rehearsing and restating. So, I mean, we do need to process our feelings, we do need to express things, but I I also see sometimes that we can get stuck in scripts and say, this is what you know, this is why I'm gonna say it happened, and I'm you know, they're wrong and I'm right, and you know, we might even feel empowered by that, and it can be dangerous because there isn't much forgiveness in that, there's not a lot of recognition that we also might have made some mistakes, and it's a hard place to really find healing, you know, and but a lot of times you might, especially if you you feel you you're wronged and you want support, you might go to your friends and support systems and and and say, Yeah, you know, let's just let's just rip rip them up with our words and and talk about how terrible they are.

Erica Banks 37:28

Some people would do that. Um, in my particular case, I vented a little bit and I was a little bit mindful of that, of who I vented to, but there were a lot of things I didn't. There were a lot of things I didn't want to talk about. I was I I I didn't. And I and I know I didn't because I really and truly didn't want to face it. And for for some reason, you know, you know, looking back on it then, I think it was talking about certain things, but I don't want to say sugarcoating it, but I think masking what all had happened. And I I'll be honest, I wasn't looking for anybody to validate what I had gone through. I knew. I also knew at the end of the day, not very few people probably would even understand. And so not thinking people would understand, yeah, I vented, but again, there's a lot of things that I I didn't speak on. I didn't speak on them because I and myself, I wasn't ready to face them. I wasn't ready to deal with them. And then there was a part of me like, how could you, Erica? What is wrong with you, Erica? There was a lot of internalizing, there was a lot of beating up. There was, okay, Erica, why didn't you speak up at this? Why did you, you know, bite your tongue for the sake of keeping peace? So what if it created an argument? You weren't coming from a place of malice, you weren't coming from a place of where I'm trying to nag you and argue. You're really coming from a place of wanting clarity and resolution. But at that time and at that in that age, it was like, if I felt it, okay, now's the time. No, sometimes we got to take a step back, allow some time to prop to pass so we can be able to clearly articulate what are what we're feeling, what we're missing, what we're needing, where there was that misunderstanding. Well, maybe I said it in, you know, not the best way. Maybe my approach wasn't right. Maybe when I I was speaking, I was speaking in a That wasn't receptive to you because of every of something else that may have transpired, if that makes sense. So for me, I didn't have, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, it wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna go to my girls, we're gonna have a girl's night. We're just gonna bash him and da-da-da-da-da. I vented. We had girls' nights, and there would be sometimes what I would talk, but I held a lot back. Because it was just there was a part of me, it was like, is this really a safe space? No judgment. Is it real, is it really us girls? And that's not fair to my support system, you know, at that time to say that that's that's who you know, those are the type of people that they were. That's just what I was feeling. And so it was like, I want to talk about this, but not so much. Like this, I don't know. So I think it was a part of control too. At that time, everything was chaos and it was out of control. So here's a little bit that I can hold on to. As strange as that may sound, and again, there were some things I did not want to talk about. I wasn't ready to face it myself.

Dr. Geneus 41:19

It doesn't sound strange at all. I think when you feel like your life has been turned upside down, we do look for places where we can assume feel like where things are a little more control, we can control it a little bit. Um, and just thinking about you know what I know about you, and that you you would you would be careful of what you would say and and whether or not it was a safe space, that makes a lot of sense, is very consistent with what I know of you. Um and it's it's just really interesting to think about this experience, and also just if you're internalizing, it's it's I think it's probably not healthy to take too much responsibility or too little responsibility. I think we have to to pray in all situations, say Lord, help me, you know, search my heart, show me what you know you want me to know from this situation, what you want me to understand, what I need to work on. And there's all these things that we can work on, but with divorce, a lot of times we do feel no matter what the circumstances, a lot of blame or a sense of failure is from what I've heard. I've haven't been divorced, I'm just from what I've heard people have said. Um, and I think that that internalized feeling can really silence you too, right? Because you as you said, you you don't feel like you're assessing, even with close friends, your your support system in other situations. Is this a safe space? Just that deep and internalized sort of blame, or just you know, did I fail at this? I've seen that really eat people up inside, and and and and you just feel like you can just see it's it's really where their pain lies.

Erica Banks 43:00

In the very beginning, it was just like, oh my god, I'm not attractive enough. Oh my gosh, my my skin is too pale. Oh my gosh, you know, the my body size, the shape. I started tearing myself down. And again, I internalized, I I was blaming me. It was like, oh my gosh, I could have done this. Well, why wasn't I this? Well, maybe I wasn't enough of this. I did. I was like, oh my god, I I really did not feel I wasn't beautiful enough. What's wrong with me that you took a vow but you couldn't keep it? So there had to be something wrong with me. What kind of mother? What what like why? Like, what did I where do I lack? Where did I not meet that standard? I did. I broke myself down. Too th too thin. Oh my gosh, my chest. I really went in. My self-esteem, it really dropped. And it took years to then say again, circling back, there was a blessing in the divorce. Too young to have gotten married, should have took some time and still got to learn me because so much had happened. This person, you know, the divorce came about, and the first person immediately, despite, you know, how the divorce came about, I tore me down. I started internalizing me. What more could I have done? Maybe if I maybe if I would have spoken up that time instead of biting my tongue. Maybe that one time when I did speak up, maybe if I didn't. Oh, oh my gosh. That I was I too supportive when it was, okay, this goal, this dream, and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm your cheerlead, biggest cheerleader backer, or uh, you know, I'm not for so for sure that this is the best approach to accomplish that. Maybe if I didn't say anything at all. Because there were sometimes throughout the marriage, there were choices, decisions. I never will forget there was one hard decision, and I had to pray, and I said, at the end of the day, God, it's in your hands, but I do not want it to ever be here's this opportunity that I got presented with, and then there'd be that resentment where I I I kept I kept that person back from pursuing and stepping out. So again, I for me definitely I didn't take to, you know, publicly bash. I had to adjust. There would be times where you know I would see people um, you know, that my ex-spouse knew. And I I remember there would be times when I'd be like, okay, don't make eye contact, don't make eye contact, just don't, just don't, just don't, just don't, you know, being having having that anxiety because it would be like, oh, well, I how's everything, you know, how's everything going? Oh my god, and you're like, please don't ask, and then you would get that question, and you're like, I'm not married anymore, I'm divorced. And then it's just it's just human nature because people want to know why. And so it's the snowball questions, and so just getting to a place and getting comfortable enough to be able to just not have not even in engage in that conversation. But in the very beginning, I was so vulnerable, I would engage in it, not even realizing I'm just just I'm healing. I'm trying, you know, not even venting, but I'm healing, and I'm again, you have to be patient, you have to meet them where they are. Um, and as much as you love and you care about them and you want them to be where you foresee them to be, everybody's different, and there's no timeline with grief. That's another thing. They're like, oh girl, it it's I'm telling you, it's the life, and it's this and it's this. It's a process, and every process is different. And the one thing that I wish somebody told me sooner, which I think would have been so helpful, feel whatever you need to feel when you need to feel it. Do not allow anyone else to tell you your feelings are not valid, you're exaggerating. That's not how that happened. The greatest thing, journal. Because I had to go back and even apologize to some of my friends and my family because it's like you're my support system. But they're not there for me to dump on. And ones that genuinely love and care about me, they have their own tests and trials in their own life. And a part of me, and I apologize because it's it's it comes across a little bit selfish. You're my sounding board, but it's not for you to fix it or solve it. And understanding that and adding that burden and pressure because at the end of the day, they're there. It's like, okay, what do you want me to do? I'll do it, I'll fix it. If it's gonna make you smile, if it's gonna bring back that joy, that glow, I know that they're gonna do that. But we have to be mindful of that too. And even in everything that we go through as God's children, we never want to be a stumbling block in anybody in anybody else's faith. We never want to push away the people that we love and we genuinely care and that are in our corner because they're going through what they're going through. We're in our storm. They're praying and they're God-fearing people, and they can get that prayer through, but they're not seeing a breakthrough in our life. So then it's like, well, wait a minute, God, what's going on? I had someone near and dear to me that I love that told me this about a year ago. Hurt me to my heart, but I told them thank you. They said, I had to distance myself from you. And I was like, oh, it hurt and it hurt. It hurt. You know how you go down that first hill on the roller coaster and your stomach drops? That's how I felt. And it was like, I'm I was going through so much. And I know God is a God that He cannot lie, and He answers prayers, but it was like, how long, God? How much more does she have to suffer? I'm watching her, I'm praying. It started making the person step back and look at their own faith. And I never want to do that. I never want to do that. And have somebody tell me that it wasn't anything in my own walk. So that's when I said, you know what, Erica, you gotta be even more intentional. Talk about you got your friends, they can be your sounding board and you can vent, but there's a time you got to cut it off. You put a timer on it. Or there's some things you just don't talk to them about, you go to God about, or you journal about. I'm all about a journal for the first time in my whole entire life, last year, front to front to back, I completed a journal. And that is something that I will say is helpful. Journal, write it out. Don't worry about punctuation, don't worry about spelling, don't worry, just write. Let your mind go, vent, release. Because sometimes, even when we go to our family and friends, and if they have that time, they have other things that are going on, and it may be very hard for them to be there for us. And sometimes it's they don't know what to say or do. And that's okay. That's okay. We have to take some of that accountability too. And I'm I'm glad you said, well, what is it that we can do as a support system? But also taking and putting it, and it and it's going to be hard if you're working with, if you're there for somebody, whether it's a friend, a family member, or whoever, and you want to be there, that's something that we ourselves, in the freshness and the newness of it, our mind isn't there. There's a lot of things that we're having to go. We're probably thinking about, okay, I'm going from one or I'm going from two incomes to one income. I've got a house, I've got to move. Maybe I don't have to move. Maybe my spouse is moving out, but now I got this mortgage. There's certain responsibilities that are going to shift to where it's me and you, now it's just me. Here's a new person that I have to get to read that I have to relearn, not just myself, but depending upon the relationship that you have with your soon-to-be ex-spouse or your ex-spouse, you got to you got to relearn them all over, all over again. But you have the choice. Do I want to? Is it necessary? Is it healthy? These are all choices and decisions. Is this a relationship? Is this a connection to where now this part of us being together, there's that death. So now we got to work on the birthing of a new. But a lot of things and a lot of times this society and this world, they don't want to talk about and they don't want to help people through, which is what I'm great, which is what I'm grateful for, is there are sometimes and situations where when there is a death in a marriage, that is just that. And you have two people that have to grieve that, relearn themselves, and there is no coming back together. And we need to stop saying and telling people, you need to come back together. That's what you need to do. Because we don't know the story, we don't know the situation. It may not be in the best interest of either, not one or the other. It just may not be best for both of them to come back together. No different than friendships that when they grow apart. So being there and we ourselves, as we're going through it, we got to take that accountability too. We can't dump that on our family and you know, our loved ones.

Dr. Geneus 54:06

It's interesting. I was one night I left uh Christian television on and I was single, and I woke up in the middle of the night, and there was a prophetic um minister was speaking, a woman that she had come forth to the altar for prayer, and she was telling the woman that she had all these things around her, and the woman's saying, Well, I'm not doing that. No, that's not me. And they said, Wait a minute, but my ex-husband is doing those things, and she said something so powerful, I don't know why, you just don't hear this, but she said you formed a spiritual union with this person, you can legally divorce somebody in the world, but that does not mean you are spiritually divorced from this person. Have you prayed and asked the Lord to remove your spiritual connection to spiritually divorce this person because you're still impacted by some of the things that they're doing, absolutely, even though you're legally divorced. And I thought, wow, why why don't we why isn't this said? So many people are divorced. Years could pass, we might not even see the person, but spiritually we can be impacted by still by their decisions, right? Um it's really it's really interesting to think about, you know, there's so many things that we don't, spiritual things that we don't understand that aren't discussed. And you even mentioned that in preparation for marriage, a lot of times the premarital counseling is very brief, and even even the best premarital counseling oftentimes doesn't, you know, I don't know how preparity could be for marriage, but it doesn't get into some of the things that are always, you know, that might be conflicts in your marriage. There's there's always things that we learn about ourselves, about our spouses. But it's interesting too. I was I I took a deliverance class once, and the teachers had been in deliverance for many, many years, and they said that they wouldn't even marry a couple if the couple didn't first go through some deliverance. And you think about our family histories, you know, what we saw in terms of models of marriages and how people treated each other, you know, what were our ideas of what it is to be a spouse, pairing that with our own personalities, what we learned about ourselves just in the process of marriage. There's so much that happens, you know. Is that something that somebody told, you know, ever it introduced the idea to you that when you were divorced, okay, you're getting legally divorced in the world, but you also need to get spiritually divorced. Had anybody ever said that to you? Because I I I never heard that before that.

Erica Banks 57:05

No, no, and it just shows where we are in this world. We we think of it from a legal standpoint. We don't look at that biblical standpoint, we don't look at it. That's a covenant, that is a covenant between, and you know, with me, that was a covenant between me, my ex-spouse, and God. And there are certain things that even transpired during the marriage and after. There is that there is that healing, and you're right, there is that that cleansing. So having the full and complete closure, not just from an emotional standpoint and a legal standpoint, but definitely from a spiritual. Because there were certain in the very beginning of things, I was still living and caring and conducting myself as if I was, as if I was so married.

Dr. Geneus 58:03

Probably unconsciously, you probably weren't aware you were doing it, right?

Erica Banks 58:07

Not not at all. And then it was just like, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you know. So, no, and that is something that it needs to be spoken of more. And I also we have to be very careful, especially as Christians. The Bible is not there to condemn other people. And when people go through a divorce, I don't care if it's private or public, we are not there as Christians to look down upon anyone else. You know, that is a the church is a place of healing where you have regular real people with real problems, real situations. That's where the healing comes in. And so these are the types of conversations that we need to have. And then it doesn't mean that we we kind of shun them. Oh, you're getting divorced, you know, we or we look, we look down, or here she comes. Or, you know, I'm just saying what happens and it pushes people away from God. We want to bring them in, we want to bring that healing. It happens. Oh, where's where's your spouse? I mean, let's just have those, let's let's just have those conversations. This is what happens in divorce, and it turns people away. You already have somebody hurting when the Bible says, come as you are, if you got a deep gash, you're gonna go to the hospital. When I have a deep gash in my heart. I'm gonna go to God. I'm gonna go to the church, the place of worship, and be around like-minded individuals. And that's the last place that you ever want to feel like you're an outcast. But it happens. It happens. So then it's like, okay, you know, how do I how do I continue to come and sit and worship with my fellow, you know, my fellow brother and sisters when I'm going through this? And whether it's public or not, that's still in the back of my mind. Oh my gosh, are they looking at me? Are they, you know, what are they thinking?

Dr. Geneus 1:00:39

You know, it's a really telling tale of how well sometimes we handle that as a church body, is you have a couple who's separating decides to divorce, and both people are really involved in that church community, they feel very connected, like it's you know, very much their family, extended family. And then they just feel like they've got to decide. One person can stay, but one person's gotta leave.

Erica Banks 1:01:09

Right.

Dr. Geneus 1:01:10

And I think it really, I mean, sometimes situations where for the each individual in their separation and their divorce, you might determine that that's just part of your process of healing that you just can't be in that place anymore. But I think there's some situations where as a church community, we should be able to support one another. That if both people felt the Lord leading them to stay, even if it wasn't that they were gonna carry on a friendship, even you know, that we can manage that, we can figure that out. We don't feel like we have to choose sides or be uncomfortable with either person because of their just separation and their divorce. It's it's really interesting how it happens with the your church home, also becomes something. Maybe it should be in the divorce degree.

Erica Banks 1:02:05

I get to keep the church home, not just the marital home, I get to keep the church home, and you're gonna have to leave. I get this, I mean I get brother and sister so-and-so, and you get so-and-so. You know, you get to work, you get to work, you know, you get to work the sound booth on the first Sunday, I'll do the third Sunday.

Dr. Geneus 1:02:25

I'll let you know every other Sunday.

Erica Banks 1:02:28

But while I do, you know, I'll usher on the first Sunday while you do children's church, and then you know, I mean you sit on one side and I sit on the other. You know, you'll sit in the back and we'll time it. And I make light of I'm trying to bring, you know, some smiles and joy at this time, but believe it or not, it happens. Now, I will say in my particular case, I'm going to church. You know, but it happens where people are like, either that's that's their personal choosing or that's how they've that they're made to feel. It's just time for us to be real and have these, you know, have these conversations because that's what the church is. And that and then situations like these, it pushes, it pushes people away. It makes people like, oh no, I don't want to go to that church. You know, or oh no, or oh no, girl, I saw how they did you. I'm good. I'm good. And and now more than ever, we need we need that. We definitely need that.

Dr. Geneus 1:03:44

Where's Erica today? You mentioned, and of course, you know, we do we look inward when something happens, we weren't expected. We you know, as we have to feel a lot of self-blame and and question our own worth. You're you know, beautiful inside and outside, but you might not have felt that way about yourself. Where are you today? Where's Erica today when you look back?

Erica Banks 1:04:06

Patience and grace with yourself. Again, feel what you need to feel, and don't look for anyone else when you're feeling and going through what you're feeling at that time in that moment. Someone else saying no, you shouldn't. Don't look to that to validate. Because at the end of the day, there were two people that were in that. Your friends, your family, they only saw the outside in. They were not with you 24-7. They weren't in that household with you, they were not in that bed with you. So keep that in mind and have that perspective and just know learn and like work through what you need to work through. If you gotta talk it out, there are counselors, do not be afraid of that. Just do the you know, just do the research, be mindful and uh feel safe and comfortable. Look at it as what are some things kind of like how people make a bucket list. Well, now what are some things on my to-do list? Now that I now I'm going to put me at the top of my list. What are some things that I've been putting off that I want to do? Make it exciting. You know, like this is new, it's almost like an adventure. Rediscover yourself, be patient.

Dr. Geneus 1:05:37

As funny is, you know, obviously this series has been about grief. My father-in-law is recently widowed, and he was married longer than most people are alive, and they met as young, young kids, you know, and it's such a life change. And I said the same thing to him as you're saying you should think about divorce. You know, dad, what are some things that you want to do that you haven't been able to do? And it's interesting, there's a lot of parallels. I think people who are going through divorce to look at it as I'm grieving. There's it is a death of a relationship. There are some very similar parallels that we experience when a person physically dies. Yeah.

Erica Banks 1:06:24

And that question asking, you know, your father, that may be a hard question because the things that he's always wanted to do, and especially when you've been married to someone longer, the things that I've wanted to do, I've wanted to do with my boo thing. Right. So that's a hard question because you're now asking me. Yeah, you're asking me, what do I want to do? And that's another thing in the very beginning with me when it was divorced. People were asking me, and it's like, well, wait a minute, these are plans that I had being a wife. Now this is all shifting, so it's a retrain, like it was how it was shared to me, and it was that's a perfect way to explain it. You have to retrain your mind, and it's almost like retraining your heart as well.

Dr. Geneus 1:07:11

Not so much so that, like you said, we don't have we have a hard heart. I love that your heart is still soft, Erica. It's because your name is Erica.

Erica Banks 1:07:21

Dang it, darn it. I was kidding. I gotta work on that. I keep hearing it. No, there's never that in love.

Dr. Geneus 1:07:33

Yeah, well, thank you so much. This has been a blessing. I pray it blesses others in their hearing. I pray that people find some peace in your testimony and your stories. Always a treasure to hear them. Thank you so much.

Erica Banks 1:07:50

Thank you.

Dr. Geneus 1:07:56

Thanks for listening to the Faith to Feel podcast. Like and follow this podcast so you can hear more insightful conversations like this one. And share this episode with someone who will benefit from hearing it. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5 4. You'll find the Faith to Feel podcast on all of your favorite podcast streaming sites, such as Apple Podcasts and Spotify.