HEATHER EWING: The CRE RUNdown
Are you intrigued by Commercial Real Estate? Join Heather Ewing, CCIM each week as she dives into CRE trends, Deals, and Developments throughout Madison, WI. Learn the crucial role of Mindset in CRE and Marathons! Success leaves Clues.
HEATHER EWING: The CRE RUNdown
Ep. 67 Scott Browning -The Surprising Link Between Endurance and Career Growth
Scott Browning joins us to explore the powerful connection between endurance athletics and success in competitive business fields like commercial real estate. We dive deep into how the marathon mindset creates mental toughness that translates directly to professional achievement.
• Started as a swimmer before transitioning to running and completing his first marathon at age 18
• Trained at extremely high volumes (90-145 miles weekly) while pursuing Olympic trial qualification
• Explains the marathon mindset as learning to be comfortable with discomfort
• Describes critical "choice points" during marathons that mirror decision moments in business
• Advocates acknowledging pain rather than fighting against it when facing challenges
• Recommends breaking seemingly overwhelming challenges into manageable chunks
• Emphasizes the importance of developing effective processes to achieve goals
• Shares how running creates unique mental space for problem-solving and creativity
• Discusses how AI tools support training but can't replace human coaching relationships
• Suggests new runners start with patience, using run-walk progressions to build endurance gradually
Connect with Scott at runwithapro.com or find him on LinkedIn to learn more about his coaching services.
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown Today. We are taking a new route. I have none other than Scott Browning with me today and we are going to really delve into the importance of endurance athletics with commercial real estate. So, you've heard me talk over time about it. I've got the pro with me today. Scott, welcome Thanks.
Scott:Thanks for having me me talk over time about it.
Heather:I've got the pro with me today, Scott welcome, thanks, thanks for having me, pleasure to be here, definitely so. We connected through LinkedIn and what I loved, obviously, was the marathoning, the endurance, everything that goes into endurance athletics, and what I really want to highlight one is your journey, how you got into it and, as we go, of how it relates to careers where there is a lot of competition, where timing matters, and all these different factors such as commercial real estate and so many more. So, scott, how did you get started? Tell us a little bit more about you.
Scott:Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief because it can be a long. It can be long-winded, but the gist of it is I started as a swimmer as a youth. That was a browning required family activity, that not really endurance sport, because I was a sprint swimmer. I rose to a national level swimming transition to do some bike racing because my oldest brother was big into cycling and so I wanted to sort of emulate that and then sort of fell backwards into running. As far as I was looking for an alternative.
Scott:I had injured a shoulder during swimming and I sort of went out and did this first run. I was like, oh, this was really super cool. You know, on a footnote on that, I got into marathoning. Um, I had lost, uh, I had lost my father at a young age. Um, he was an fbi agent, killed in the line of duty, um, and so, uh, I decided he had mentioned, like, when I was like 14 years old, he's like oh, scott, you should run a marathon someday. Uh, and I didn't think anything of it because I didn't know what one was right. You know, you're 14.
Scott:I was like, although I was reaching the peak of my intelligence, but as a teenager. But after he passed I sort of revisited it. When I started running I was like, you know, maybe I should run, maybe I should run a marathon. And so I did. When I was 18, I did my first marathon down in St George, utah, and, uh, and that just started a love affair with the sport. Uh, so, um, competed, still competing, but you know, made it, made an attempt at the Olympic trials, didn't quite get there, but you know, really delved into like super competitive, um, high mileage running, um, you know, race to every distance, uh, from 5,000 meters all the way up, yeah, so that's how I got into it.
Heather:So that's great. So question for you high mileage, right? Because for me high is right now I'm training for Chicago is 46. I don't think I've ever ran that much right, I'm in my early fifties, and so what at that? That level, what is high mileage?
Scott:so, uh, I was upwards of 145 miles a week. Uh, so most average weeks were right between 90 and 120 a week. Um, so, yeah, that's it was a lot. It's a lot of running.
Scott:Uh, it's a it's a lot of running, something like that uh, not well uh, yeah, that at that point in time there really wasn't, there wasn't a lot of. We take down time during the season. Um, you know, at the end of the season we take time off. But, uh, the coach that I was using at the time, he was, um, he was pretty old school, I mean, this was back in the you know, the 90s and early 2000s and, um, you know, we, we didn do a lot of, we didn't do a lot of recovery like this, for you were to write a script of what not to do. That was more or less what I was following. Right, it's like, you know, you work, you work, you work, you work, but you missed the second part of the equation, which is the recovery side. Um, I learned that many, many years later. Um, you know what? Yeah, obviously through my own experience, but also through education. So, you know, it's like you know, without that piece, you know, you end up hurt.
Heather:And I was like I said, I was super fast, but I was also I also recorded a lot of injuries, I bet, which which then equates to downtime and things like that. Yeah, if you think about the we're not the Norma Tech three legs and things like that, right.
Scott:Yeah, no, there were none of that existed. But you know, I did a lot of massage therapy, I did a lot of yoga, things along those lines. But you know it was, you know it was a really constant push for you know, for just more volume, more volume, more volume, and so I did a lot. I did a lot of that.
Heather:Definitely. And so, when it comes to obviously, training is one huge segment and the build one mindset, and then there's also the shift to the marathon itself. How do you see the differences of that right, and what's similar, what's different?
Scott:in your mind as far as shifting over to the marathon, or as far as how does training apply to getting ready for the marathon?
Scott:what's uh, so sort of the mindset right, the mindset of what, what remains in your opinion and what changes yeah, I think the marathon mindset is one that's um and and if you've never done one, it's like there's it's hard to describe to to people. One it's super like, it's like it's a, it's a it's. It's such an amazing feeling, accomplishment. But as you're getting ready for it, is there you? What I think takes people off guard with the marathon is the, the sort of the darker periods of the race that set in where you sort of question like, okay, maybe this wasn't such a great idea. And you know I've been on the higher end of the performance spectrum, you know where, you know I'm done in two and a half hours, but it and I've been on the longer end of the spectrum too. It doesn't matter how fast you're running, you still face that.
Scott:And I think where that mindset is is you have a choice at any given point during the marathon is do I continue or do I quit? Right, and that is, to me, is where the marathon mindset comes in is how are you responding to that choice? What's the choice? So, the dog had to go inside, and to me, the training gets you sort of ready for that. But at any given point you're going to have to make a decision as to how you're going to proceed on the course and a lot of people quit, right. I mean, that's part of it.
Scott:As far as training for it goes, I think that's what you're training for, right. You're learning to be uncomfortable, because the marathon in and of itself is an uncomfortable event, and what training does, from both a mindset perspective and a physical perspective, is it teaches you what being uncomfortable is and prepares you to be uncomfortable for a very long period of time. You know, sort of fun is saying is you have to be comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable, right? So anyway, that's a long sort of a long-winded answer.
Heather:No, I love it though, and I think it's so. True, and I think also part of the harrowing part of the last several miles of a marathon is you can also see where people's hydration or fueling really is no longer paying off or was not adequate, and they're going down with the leg cramps and screaming and different things of that nature where it's. You know what I mean. You can't help but take that in as you're going through.
Scott:Well, you definitely see the results of poor preparation or poor race prep, and sometimes you know there are things beyond people's control, but oftentimes, more often than not, it's either a lack of respect for the distance, which oftentimes happens, or a lack of respect for the processes that you need to use in order to be ready for those closing miles, because the opening miles are all relatively easy, right, it's like, oh, this is you know, like, but it's you know, if you have laid the groundwork when you're fueling and hydration in particular, because ultimately, the marathon is a fueling event. That's what it is right. That's the difference between having a good race and a bad race is how well you manage that component. I mean, you know how quickly you go out also impacts that. But you definitely see where, like the fueling part, is the critical piece right, and you know I use the philosophy fuel, early fuel, often.
Scott:It's also things that you have to practice in your training, right, and so what you see is people that finish well or have really strong finishes is the product of executing processes that they practiced right. Nothing is new Like, and that there's, you know, when I talk about like, transition to lessons is building appropriate processes and practicing those processes and reflecting on whether those processes are serving you or not. Right, that's all part of your training and that's where you see like you're coming in strong at the finish. You're having a good finish in your marathon is the product of developing you know and refining processes as you go through the training process.
Heather:Definitely. What would you say? Is there a motto or anything? Like when you're getting to those choice points right, Because I agree completely. I think a marathon offers so many choice points where it comes down to how bad you want it Right. In that sense, is there a motto or is there something that you focus on to help you move through those challenging miles?
Scott:Yeah, I think that this is where I think think that you know, the psychology part of it is is super important, and I struggled this early in my career uh, my racing career. I did end up working with a sports psychologist to help me deal with the negative self-talk that comes with it, because inevitably you are gonna, you are going to encounter that. Even you know, like the world greats, they'll say the same thing. It's like oh man, it got really hard, got really hard. And yeah, so for me, the first thing is the first step is to acknowledge that's where you are. Is don't turn away from it. You don't turn.
Scott:It's like I shouldn't be feeling this way. I fit, I've trained this, that and the other You're like I shouldn't feel this way Is the second. You put up a wall to it and you resist against it. It Okay, I'm hurting Right. And that's the very, very first steps Like I'm hurting right now. So that's okay, I prepared for this and now I'm going to take the next step and that's all you do is acknowledge your feelings, acknowledge where you are, and then it allows you the freedom of making that choice and moving forward.
Scott:But if you resist it and you try to fight against it. It just magnifies, it just explodes. It's like it's okay to be hurting, right, that's part of it, what you choose to do in that moment, right. Once you've acknowledged that, then you've given yourself the freedom to make that choice. It's like I'm going to slow down a little bit. Or it's like for me, it's like left foot, right foot, I'm just going to keep moving, um, and you know, people say, embrace the suck, but I don't. I don't think that really, I don't think that really, I don't embrace it. It's like I just acknowledge what it is.
Heather:It's like, okay, I'm uncomfortable right now exactly think of the end and how good that's going to feel, right, oh yeah, for sure you know.
Scott:And then I break it down into small timelines, right. Right, it's like you know if I'm 22 miles in, and you know. And it's like, yeah, that can seem like when you're having a bad day and you know you're 22 miles in, four miles can seem like you know, like you're just at the starting line again. But you break that into usable pieces. It's like, okay, I've done this before, like I know I can run four miles at the end of the day, so I'm going to run for 30 minutes and that's all I have left. Or you know, 40 minutes, whatever your benchmark is for times. Or you know, for me I'll break it down even further. It's like, hey, all I got to do is get to 24 and then I've got this in the bag.
Scott:So you know you keep things in manageable chunks. I will say the big thing is is like when you're, when you take a look at events like this that are really long, is don't get ahead of yourself, right? Don't get yourself to the finish line before you're actually there, right? This is the moment that you're in, this is the space that you're in right now. Stay in that space as much as you can and try not to get too far outside of it.
Heather:Do you think that's why a lot of people struggle with running? Is that you have to be present?
Scott:Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. I mean, especially in today's society where it's like things move so quickly and running doesn't move very quickly, right, I mean, as you, you, oh yeah, for sure that that plays a role it doesn't get a chance to do during the day.
Scott:It's like I have the most random stupid thoughts when I run. It's hilarious and you know, if you could retort toward the inner dialogue, like I've solved all of the world's problems, I've solved everything in the course of like 45 minutes of running. It's like it's a space to in that rhythm, in that rhythm of movement, is I find peace and I find, you know, that free flow of thought that is. Just there's so many other spaces in life that you can't get that and running opens that door and that's for me. I mean that's. You know, I would suspect that you've been running long enough that you probably felt some of that.
Heather:Definitely. Yeah, I'm training for my 10th marathon. It was funny. My first one was in my late 20s. Hated it. I said never again. I waited 17 years. I say I'm a little better.
Scott:You know the mindset is different now, over time.
Heather:But yeah, I love it because I see it as the same thing of, it's like the truest connection to yourself, like I feel like I'm coming home to the most pure aspect of myself and to your point, things pop up from childhood, from future ideas, to this and I saw different. You know deals of like OK, if we go in with you know, collaborate on this deal point, or if we take it here, and so I agree, it's like a sacred time and why would you ever miss that? And I think if people are able to get to that point, they'll fall in love with it, like you obviously have, and made a career of it. And I do it, you know, within my life. But is there a tip that you would suggest to help people bridge that gap into finding, if you want to say, the essence of endurance running?
Scott:Yeah, I think the biggest thing is people think because running is a very natural activity that you know human beings should be able to. Run is people don't respect that. It's a learned skill. It's like learning any other sport, whether it's tennis or football or basketball or anything else. There's a process to learning it and most people aren't patient enough to go through that is all of the like.
Scott:The beginning road run programs I use are based on run walk progressions and starting with only one minute of running. And then you know you walk for a minute and you know we build this in over a course of eight or 10 or 12 weeks. So you know sort of the classic couch to 5k. But those programs work because you're you're teaching the body what you want it to do. Yeah, inherently we can all run, but running for longer periods of time.
Scott:There's a learning curve that's involved in that and most people don't take the patience to do that right, or they just don't. It's like I should be able to do this and they go out and run a mile without stopping and then they're just done for then they hate it, it's miserable, it was never any fun, and then they don't give themselves the the ability for their body to adapt. And if you can do that, if you can get past the first two months, which a lot of it does suck, uh, you know it's not a lot, it's a lot of things hurt, you're achy, you know it's like you're out of breath. You know you turn bright red, even all the things that go along with me. Yeah, it's terrible. You know it brings you back to like junior high, right, it's like go run a lap right, you're in trouble.
Scott:Um, and a lot of people actually have those negative stigmas associated with running so you have to take the time and and and work through the process slowly, like really slowly, um, and then then at one point it's gonna click, it'll, it'll switch over and it'll be like you'll finish this run. You're like, oh my gosh, that might have been the coolest thing I've ever done. Um, and you feel free. Um, you know, and I think that's a we are getting back to your thought processes. It's like the best thing about it is there's no, there's no wrong thought that you can have out there, right, there's no consequence to that thought and it's just you're allowing that to be, to exist. So, anyway, yeah, so the biggest tip I can tell people is be patient, work the process and work it slowly. Recognize you're learning something new. You don't learn a language in a day or a week or a month. It takes time.
Heather:Definitely and I'm sure you've gotten this over the decades that you've been teaching and things of that nature of where they just assume it's easy for you and that you never have like that. Like you have these effortless runs and it's like no, sometimes they're downright ugly and I it's like I swear in the more years that I run. At times I'm like God. I felt like I never have ran a day in my life when I went out on that training run and it's like yeah, that was yesterday right, Except the ups and downs, and it's part of the process.
Scott:Yeah, I there's. I have tens of thousands of miles underneath me, literally. I mean it's. I stopped, I stopped counting, but I used to track it, but less so now. It's just less important, um, at least it's less important to me. Some people love streets and things along those lines. I think that's great, um, but uh, like I ran yesterday, it was hot and it was a hilly run and I was like that have I ever done this sport before? Like ever, uh, and that's the nature of it, right, and if we could ever figure out how to make it good all the time, that's great. But I think that's the challenge is, it's not always. It's like anything in life. It's not always going to be good, right, but you keep putting one foot in front of the other because more often than not it is good, right, and then you know, you take the downsides, reflect on them, it's like, okay, that was. That was really challenging. You know what? You know? What can I take from this?
Heather:definitely, and I think too, as the miles build, what I have found is, I mean, I've been a pretty clean eater, but as those miles build, talk about no desire for the junk of just like like someone went past me with mcdonald's and it was at the end of like a really hot 20 mil and I was just like you know. I was like dry heaves of like. Oh my God.
Scott:And we used to do this. Yeah, we used to do this race in Utah During the 24th of July it's a holiday in this, in the state of Utah. I don't live there now, but they, but you'd come down the marathon. It would come down the parade route and this is the largest parade in Utah and people would be barbecuing on the streets and they'd have all of these foods and all of these and all I could think is like, and you're at 24 miles at this point and the smells and the food, it's like normally, god, this is great. And all you could do is like I'm not going to throw up. Not going to throw up, really, I'm not going to throw up.
Scott:It sounds terrible, but yeah, I mean, to some degree it can inspire, like the clean eating. It can make you. You know, it makes you. I think I would argue it makes you more self-aware, because if you want to do well at it and you want to enjoy it, then the other tangible factors that impact that, which is, you know, sleep. But you're talking about recovery, hydration, food, nutrition all of those things play a role, right, definitely.
Heather:Well, and I think too it's one of those I consciously do it's like you crave the real foods to really give you the energy, because we've had runs with a lot of energy and runs where you feel like you're just getting by and it's just like I'll take this one please.
Scott:Oh yeah. Oh yeah for sure, yeah for sure.
Heather:So I'm always talking about the virtues and how endurance running ties into competitive businesses such as commercial real estate. Pacing, consistency, endurance, all those things how do you see it? Endurance running connecting in with big careers?
Scott:Oh yeah, I think there's a lot of crossover. I think that you know we touched on this a little bit. It's about building one is understanding what your overall objective is. So where I've been taught to do things is like we look at my objective is over here and then I work backwards from that. Right, it's like okay, so this is where I know I need to get to. So I'm going to start at that point and I'm going to build this program backwards to where I currently am right.
Scott:So that's one thing is identifying what this is and then starting to understand what the obstacles are along the way. So, like, identifying those is like well, I know I have this, this and this and this are going to be obstacles that I'm going to have to develop processes to work either through those or around those, or to think outside the box a little bit on what those. You know what those things represent. But then it's also building effective processes to get you to where you want to go. So I'm really process oriented. Get you to where you want to go. So I'm really process oriented.
Scott:So if you're looking at, like you know whether any business or anything else is is you have to understand where it is that you want to go.
Scott:You also have to identify what things you do well and then take a look at your blind spots and things that you know that you don't do very well and then you drive into those pieces, right, because those are the things like the things you do well.
Scott:We're all good at that, like I'm really good at putting one foot in front of the other and getting you know like I can get out and run the strength training, the foam rolling, all of the other stuff that I know I need to be doing that I don't particularly enjoy.
Scott:I know that's a blind spot for me, right? I know that that's where I need to lean into those things if I'm going to get to where I want to go. But you have to be reflective enough to be able to open the door to where those weaknesses are. You have to be strategic that way, and as far as competition goes, then you need to be super strategic. It's like, okay, this is like I'm going to play to my strengths but I'm going to try to mitigate my weaknesses along the way. So to me, that's the crossover is like, you know, coaching or building a process or getting a really competitive result is a byproduct of how well you prepared for that right and what you've identified and not only the things that you're good at, but the things you're really not very good at and how you're going to put tools into place to mitigate those weaknesses.
Heather:Definitely All right. So I'm going to throw you a curveball. We hear about AI in all these different industries. How do you see it interplaying with marathoning, endurance, running, like? Do you see it coming into aspects of training with clients, or what are you seeing on that realm?
Scott:to be honest, uh and so, um, ai is. But this is the caveat ai is only as good as what you can ask it, so you have to have a baseline level of knowledge to know what to ask it. Um, then you have to be able to know how to fact check it, to know that the information that you're getting back is actually valuable. And this is what's killing a lot of runners, and so they're like build me a marathon program, right? If you don't know the parameters of all of the different aspects, then it can hamstrung you. Is this going to be great or it's not? For me? Personally, I think that. How do I use it? I pull data from clients all the time that have all this physiological data. I pull those in and, as far as race planning is, the best example I can give you is I take that physiological data, I overlay it on the course profiles, which are all available, and then I put in all of the other variables that I want and then I have it. Help me to understand, based on this person's physiology, how is it likely going to play out on this course? Giving these environmental factors play out on this course, giving these environmental factors. These are things that AI can do at a speed that there's, I mean I can do them, but it's at a speed that is unbelievable.
Scott:Where I think AI falls short is especially and again this is going to be I'll have a bias because I'm a coach. Right, I mean, that's how I make my living. What it can't do is the communication piece. It can't understand the human emotion. It can't understand when somebody's having a bad day. It can't understand how to adapt in real time to human beings are unbelievably irrational. Right, we don't. We have not a single sense of logic to anything that we respond to on emotion.
Scott:Ai is a logic-based model, right? Um, it looks at patterns. Well, human beings are inherently terrible at following patterns. Right, I mean, we have, we have these behavior patterns, but we're not rational, um, and so for me, as a coach, you know like ai has been tremendously helpful to help me solve problems like okay, well, okay, well, these are the things that I'm dealing with.
Scott:What are my options? You know, to help COVID, that's great. It's a tool for me. Where and how I utilize that is. It saves me time so that I can spend more time face-to-face with you and say let's talk about where you are. Let's talk about what you want. Let's talk about how real life is impacting what it is that you actually want to do. So, yeah, I think AI it's here to stay. Let's be really clear, and so, as a coach, either I'm going to adopt it or I'm going to be left behind. Right, that's the, and it's finding ways to integrate that in the things that I already do. And it saves me a huge, huge amount of time on the programming side of things, right, because I can ask it all I can. I can say I need a solution for these following variables, right, and then I'm smart enough to be able to say, okay, well, that's stupid, that's never going to work, but then again, only as good as what, you know how to ask it.
Heather:Right. What you put in, you get out. Definitely so if people wanted to work with you. Scott, do you work throughout the United States or are you?
Scott:Yeah, I work worldwide, so I live in Los Angeles, so you know, as obviously you can see, I don't know anybody else, but it no, but I have people all over the US. So the way I work is we do sit on Zoom, just like this, or if I happen to be where you are then and I'm going to be in Chicago, by the way, so I'll try to look you up when I'm there.
Heather:I'm in Wisconsin, but I'll be racing in Chicago. You'll be racing in Chicago, beautiful Wisconsin winters, Scott.
Scott:Yeah, I'll be there. Yeah, no, thank you, I'll be down. I'll be in Chicago for the marathon, so I have athletes running there. So, yeah, my wife and I'll be there. That's great. Is almost exclusively over Zoom text, whatever. It is Difference, I'd say, point of differentiation, if you want to know. What makes me a little bit different is that I don't limit the communications I have with people Like it's like, hey, you can check in once a week or every other week. It doesn't work. You reach me as you need to reach me. That's how it works. It's a cornerstone of everything I do is built on communication and trust is built on communication and trust. If we're not talking, it ain't working. That's just it. And as far as programming goes, that's the easy part, right, it's the psychology part of it. That's the part that's gonna make the difference. Anybody can follow a training plan. How you adapt that training plan to real life situations. There's an art form in that.
Heather:Oh, definitely, and especially if you're having anything that's bothering you or adjusting. If you're having anything that's bothering you or adjusting, and I'm sure I would anticipate that there's more communications too, as you get closer to race day just fine-tuning different things, or is that?
Scott:yeah, it's, it's and it really is.
Scott:Yeah, there's, there's fine-tuning things and you know, like people, you know like, or you know if you're dealing with injury related issues.
Scott:You know, like, my master's is in corrective exercise, so I have, you know, sort of of a lot of solutions that revolve around, like my, all of the strength training programs I do are based in customizing it based on the needs of the individual.
Scott:But as we approach race day, communications increase and a lot of it is about less about the physical side because, like, as you get close to race day, everybody has everything that hurts, right Cause that's, you know, sort of the, you know the, the taper flu, like I'm getting sick, you know the, the taper flu, um, like I'm getting sick, uh, this hurts, that hurts is, you know that's your body's way of just sort of you know getting ready, but it's tamping down the anxiety levels that rise and and and managing and sport we call it arousal um is managing that, that level, so that we stay in the inverted you, we stay in the in the right place, uh, to keep you from getting over anxious, which is mostly what people fight is getting, you know, super nervous, and then you know, measuring that back down just a little bit and focusing on executing the plan that we develop.
Heather:Perfect. Well, this has been a true joy. I could talk to you forever.
Scott:Oh yeah, no, I love this, so I'm a talker for sure.
Heather:Yeah, well, I'm right there with you. So how do people connect with?
Scott:you, Scott. Best thing is just to go to the website runwithaprocom. That's the easiest way. My calendar's right there. You can just book through there my contact information, or scottatessbrowningptcom for email if you want to reach out that way. But website's easiest runwithaprocom. Or LinkedIn.
Heather:I'm there too, that's how you found me Right. Exactly, I enjoyed LinkedIn. I've connected with so many great people. It's really nice, but oh, it's fantastic, I know, isn't it? Thank goodness for it. Well, I appreciate you having me on.
Scott:Yes, yeah, all right, good luck in Chicago and hopefully we'll talk to you soon. Sounds good. Thanks so much. Okay, bye.
Heather:Bye, bye.