Episode 39 - Warrior Compassion & the Full Man - Sean Harvey

In this episode, Kevin interviews Sean Harvey, Chief Compassion Officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's Studio. Sean discusses his journey from Wall Street to Eileen Fisher, emphasizing the impact of compassionate masculinity. He delves into his book 'Warrior Compassion,' addressing men's healing, challenges faced by young men, and the role of compassion in police work. The conversation explores connection, vulnerability, the drive-by approach, and the importance of accepting diverse truths. Sean concludes by sharing his mission to spread the message of warrior compassion.

Takeaways

• Compassionate masculinity blends strength and tenderness.
• Men often face loneliness, isolation, leading to unfulfillment and depression.
• Spirituality is crucial for men's healing, offering a moral compass and deeper purpose.
• Embrace complexity, break free from labels for nuanced understanding, fostering compassion.
• Start self-exploration by finding a community, engaging in activities, and deepening connections.
• The drive-by approach, brief invitations for deeper conversations, fosters vulnerability and connection.
• Seeing the world with childlike wonder reclaims lost parts and nurtures playfulness.
• Accepting diverse truths without judgment is vital for understanding and connection.
• Transformative self-discovery occurs in a like-minded community journey.
• Meaningful connections can transcend surface-level differences.
• Prioritize spreading the message and helping others over commercial success.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

01:13 Leaving Wall Street and Joining Eileen Fisher

03:11 The Impact of Eileen Fisher on Men

06:15 Writing the Book 'Warrior Compassion'

09:03 The Need for Men's Healing

11:36 The Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation in Men

13:38 The Importance of Compassion in Police Departments

17:23 Moving from Love with Conditions to Unconditional Love

20:17 Compassionate Masculinity and Balancing Strength with Sensitivity

23:21 Navigating Changing Gender Roles and Shifting Gender Norms

26:05 Challenges Faced by Young Men in Finding Their Identity

29:39 The Impact of Social Media and the Lack of Intergenerational Connection

32:24 The Importance of Spirituality in Men's Healing

36:11 Navigating Conversations and Mentoring Young Men

39:15 Moving Beyond Partisanship and Embracing Shared Humanity

43:07 Breaking Free from Labels and Embracing Complexity

46:25 Starting the Journey of Self-Exploration and Healing

48:15 Connecting with Men

49:00 The Power of the Drive-By

50:07 Seeing the World with Childlike Wonder

51:46 Accepting Different Truths

52:19 Finding Community and Going on a Journey

52:49 Connection Despite Differences

53:43 Spreading the Message


About Sean:

Sean Harvey, MSOD, MSEd, is a renowned facilitator and author of Warrior Compassion. With over 20 years in transformational leadership, he developed the Sympónia Method. Sean served as head of Personal Transformation at EILEEN FISHER and VP of Talent Consulting at Partners International. A founding member of Project Compassion, he brings compassion-centered consulting to law enforcement. Sean teaches at Cornell, NYU, and Baruch College. His work focuses on personal, organizational, and societal transformation. He holds degrees from well-known Universities, and is ordained from On

To learn more about Maxed Out Man and to maximize your potential, visit www.maxedoutman.com or connect with us on Social Media:

Facebook
Instagram
TikTok

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to maxed out man helping you

0:06

become the man you were made to be hey guys it's Kevin Davis from the

0:11

maxed out man podcast this is episode number 39 I am here with sea Harvey Sean

0:17

is the chief compassion officer and founder of the warrior compassion men studio and the Symphonia facilitator

0:25

Studio see how well my uh Babble app has been working for me which if I did it more often probably be working better

0:31

but uh Sean I appreciate you being here I'm going to let you kind of tell your story and and what you do we were

0:38

talking before we started recording that this would be an interesting topic for me personally to kind of get uh and

0:43

honestly this podcast that's been the most exciting part of this whole thing is kind of learning from different people exploring my own masculinity my

0:51

own inner self uh and all that so hey thanks for coming on I appreciate you taking the time no you're welcome and

0:57

it's it's great to be here so thanks for having me thanks for asking so hey tell me tell me what kind of give us your

1:04

background you got a few letters after your name you've got I looked at your website last night in preparation for

1:10

this and it's like tab tab tab speaker author like you you you do a lot of

1:16

things and I think you're helping a lot of people so I'd love to hear more about that yeah you know I think I I'll start

1:22

with um I've been on this journey for probably about 10 10 probably about a

1:27

decade I it really started when I when I left Wall Street at 40 I was a

1:32

consultant on Wall Street as was a college professor and

1:38

I gave it all up on my 40th birthday and told my the CEO of the firm I was I was

1:43

leading a Consulting division at that time in New York and I I walked into her office and said you know I've lost my

1:49

heart and my soul and the job and and I resigned as my birthday present wow and and within two weeks this this uh

1:57

fashion company that I'd never heard of I Fisher was was looking for an internal

2:03

consultant and a friend of mine said hey we're hiring and he said you know I think I'd be curious I think I'd be

2:09

interested and that that was really the start of this journey wow and did they hire you for something specific for the

2:17

as a consultant so I was the internal chain I came in as an internal organization

2:23

development partner or in simple of terms I was an internal change agent for the creative teams oh okay all right

2:30

that's that's in that company at Island Fisher

2:36

I was pretty much running Retreats and so I was pretty much developing and and running full day Retreats I think my

2:41

second year I I led 52 5 56 full days of retreats in a year my second

2:49

year um but it was it was what happened on my first day that I think was the the

2:55

moment that kind of changed the trajectory of my life and so so E Fisher for those who don't know it's a it's a

3:02

women's fashion company um based out of New York and um it's it's really run

3:09

from a place of feminine leadership feminine um a feminine Energy company

3:15

and I you know coming from Wall Street and college teaching this was like if everything I knew about organizations

3:21

got flipped on its head right but it was on that first day

3:26

my two bosses sat me down for lunch and I just gone through an eight-month interview to get the

3:32

job and they said you know Sean we just want to acknowledge that you have

3:37

proving yourself in the interview process we now want you to stop proving yourself and learn how to be who you

3:43

actually are interesting when you in when you interviewed with us you showed us your heart and you showed us your

3:50

polish we hired you for your heart and we want to see less of your polish stop trying to prove and and share your

3:57

accomplishments and achievements and all these things that as guys were typically like trained that this is this is our

4:03

calling card and they're like that's not going to work here that mask kind of a thing yeah and so it was it was it was

4:10

it was challenging The Mask right out of the gate um and over the course I was there

4:17

for five years and I started noticing this this company was just different you know it operated differently the

4:23

conversations were different um there was less focus on outcomes and more focus on process we spent more time in

4:30

the nuance and it was a company that was about 1,200 employees and about 200 were men so the first time being in a female

4:37

dominated environment yeah and and learn I learned a lot I had a hit my head on

4:44

the hit my head against the wall a few times a few too many times

4:50

um and but what I noticed when I started talking to other men was you know I would say yo I feel

4:58

like I'm changing you change changing this has this place impacted you and they were like yeah you know my wife

5:03

said and it usually started with my wife or my girlfriend uh my wife said I I I'm more

5:10

patient or I listen differently um I stopped needing to be right all the time

5:15

and I started to be more Curious I started to have more access to my emotional

5:21

expression um and I started to be more creative I tapped into my creativity differently and I was starting to to

5:27

solve problems in a new way H but the biggest thing was most of the guys said

5:33

I feel more comfortable in my own skin than I ever have and you know I've been through

5:40

men's work I've you know I lead men's work and and this was different this was like organically just happening to guys

5:48

without them even realizing what was happening and they were just shifting they were evolving they were morphing

5:55

and I said you know we got to bring this we got to bring whatever this is out to more men

6:00

and that that my journey um in in the book that I just wrote that just published is really the starting places

6:07

is you know at 40 going on this journey with Eileen Fischer and then everything

6:12

that came after it over the last decade um my healing and now having a

6:19

road map for other men's healing and that book is Warrior compassion right just I went I went on

6:25

Amazon this morning so it it uh it launched just a few week ago right just a couple week ago yeah nice

6:32

congratulations on on getting that out and by healing first of all let me just say that over in

6:38

2017 my wife who had been a homemaker to that time started doing uh off-road

6:44

rallies we we built um we built a vehicle for her she actually built most of it and then she got involved in all

6:52

female Automotive builds uh I don't know if you know what SEMA is it's coming up in a little bit it's the special

6:58

equipment at manufact facturers Association the largest Automotive um trade show in the world she's had

7:04

multiple vehicles in that as a kind of a a homemaker turned you know race car

7:10

build you race car builder rally driver welder fabricator all of this stuff which is a it's an awesome story but it

7:18

we were involved in all female build so like there's 80 trades

7:23

women and they're welders and Fabricators and car builders and Painters and race car driv

7:29

so like it it was an interesting Dynamic for me because there was often times an

7:34

I'm the I'm the only guy anywhere to be found and um you know obviously these

7:40

women I would I would guess they are slightly different than fashion right

7:46

fashion women they they tend to lean more towards the masculine you know just as by Nature uh but there was still this

7:54

femininity uh and our our exploration was kind of interesting because there there was almost this they put on their

8:00

own masks to hide their femininity right because they're existing in a masculine

8:06

world so I thought that was super super interesting and that's an interesting Journey that you've had as well you know

8:12

I think it's um you know having having worked and and consulted for 25 years um

8:19

I I see that you know our systems have been built from a masculine perspective and so it's really asking

8:25

everyone in Corporate America to put on a mask in some way I think that's shifting now but

8:32

traditionally so in so many of these male-dominated environments it is leaning more into the masculine energy

8:38

than the feminine energy um across the gender Continuum the gender the gender Spectrum so um you I think I think right

8:47

now we're at a point where the the rules rules Norms expectations

8:53

around gender are just shifting so radically and so quickly you know and say you know and

9:00

for a lot of men that's just like getting Whiplash of of of what's happening and

9:05

then also the flip side of it is not giving men the space to even just contemplate reflect or even just say how

9:12

how am I with all of this and that's the whole that's even the whole premise of of my book is I

9:20

think right now men and especially white straight men are they also known as the

9:26

enemy of society oh and you know that's the thing it's like so

9:32

many men are hearing the messages that something has to change they have to change because they or something is

9:39

broken and the whole premise of my book is no you're not broken there's not

9:44

something that's broken but there are probably a lot of men out there that are deeply wounded who are suffering in silence that just

9:51

need an invitation into the healing Journey that's less about fixing the

9:57

problem more about healing the wounds go ahead no go ahead I was going to say

10:04

and what like when you when you said healing and wounds I'm just you know can you give us a little bit of context on

10:11

that and kind of what that might look like yeah you know I think

10:17

um I describe a lot of guys who come onto their healing Journey like there there's usually something that

10:24

happens um sometimes it's I I I I played by the rules I played the game I got the

10:32

prizes I'm still unfulfilled or I'm still something's missing or I'm miserable right I think the biggest

10:40

thing is we're in this epidemic of loneliness especially in the US where men we're just seeing

10:48

statistically are having fewer friends fewer deeper connections I think social media has

10:54

just exasperated faux intimacy versus real intimacy in real

11:00

connection when I when I when I as I've been in it I think what so many men are

11:06

yearning for is deeper connection deeper connection to self to other um to their

11:12

own sense of their authentic core and so I think it's that that

11:18

disconnection that is often the culprit and what that can translate to is

11:24

feelings of isolation or loneliness feelings of unfulfillment feel of

11:30

depression it can it can um you know we can often mask or cope with addictive

11:37

behaviors you know and then when we look at where we are in terms of the rates of suicide and some of my work goes into

11:44

working with with police officers and Military and when I look at the the the numbers with police officers it just

11:50

everything just either gets double tripled or quadrupled in terms of the

11:56

the um you know walking with the trauma from the job mhm and not having the

12:03

outlets to release it and I think that's the thing we just you know for the most part personal

12:10

transformation work healing work the Growth work the spiritual growth work it's much more access accessible for

12:18

women in terms of I think one a propensity for it two there's more

12:23

available for it and three there's less of a stigma around it

12:29

and so I think for men it's like how do we just create more of these invitations where there's less stigma

12:36

there's less of this is a sign of weakness this is a sign of something's wrong and more of no this is just a

12:43

reflection of you being a human being and this is just normally going to

12:49

just make you a better healthier human you know one of one of the guys on my we um we co-founded an organization

12:58

or an initiative called Project Compassion which was deepening compassion in police

13:04

departments and like five of five or six of us found each other and one one guy is the on the team

13:11

is the former head of the FBI National Academy at quano and we had a conversation one day

13:18

and at the end of it and I was giving like my perspective a lot of what's in my book and you know he said you know Sean I I can't argue refute or anything

13:26

you just said you're not talking about training cops to be better cops you're talking

13:32

about developing officers into better humans who can argue with that and I think that's that's that's

13:40

really the invitation to help men come into their their humanness and their Humanity in a different

13:46

way yeah I mean that's um it's interesting that you talk about cops FBI soldiers you know because I think if

13:53

there's any group that is like rub some dirt in it kind of you know kind of you

14:00

know that tends to be the culture I'm sure it's interesting because we've been I got you know late at night I typically

14:08

kind of watch a show of some sort on Hulu or whatever and I got addicted to watching these uh body cam

14:15

shows for whatever reason but and obviously these shows are are curated

14:20

specifically to show certain stories but but one of the things that I noticed very heavily about this show is that um

14:29

and one things that like I didn't really realize is so when there's an officer involved shooting so a suspect they have

14:35

to shoot a suspect in order to neutralize the threat they instantly go

14:40

from that action to trying to save the suspect's life so you have this group of

14:46

cops that literally just put 15 bullets in this guy who then instantly turn into

14:52

EMTs trying to get this you know trying to and oftentimes it it doesn't happen

14:58

but I was struck by and that's one story their guy was pull had to pull a suspect

15:03

out of a burning vehicle last night who basically tried to kill him and all all these things but it's that compassion

15:10

side that was actually surprising especially now because to your point cops not only are you know if you're a

15:17

single you know white male who happens to be a cop you're like worse than you

15:22

know the worst car salesman out there right like you you're not a loved person

15:28

in the general public so I thought that was super interesting what we what we've been seeing on that yeah you know I

15:34

think it's um you know when I when I the so many of

15:40

the men that I meet it's like we we have so many preconceived of what compa preconceived ideas of what compassion is

15:48

some will say it's a sign of weakness some will say that it's you know not accessible some will you know sh It And

15:54

yet when you really look at our behaviors so many men are are are already being compassionate in their

16:02

way um and one of the things that I do in the book is I talk about the

16:07

spiritual foundations you know how and I I introduce the definitions of

16:13

compassion through eight different uh Traditions Faith Traditions so Christianity

16:19

Judaism uh Islam or Islam um Sufism Buddhism

16:25

Hinduism uh shamanic practice and and um

16:30

integral spirituality as an Interfaith Minister you know just kind of seeing what's an Interfaith

16:36

perspective and so just to give some of the spiritual grounding for why this

16:41

work has been around for essentially eternity you know for centuries and

16:47

centuries and it really is at the foundation of so many of our faith Traditions you know and we we manifest

16:54

it in different ways and it doesn't necessarily need to be a feminine expression to to show

17:00

compassion and and I think what what's challenging is for so many men I think

17:05

are blocked emotionally that we can intellectualize

17:12

these ideas we put them in action but it can be hard for us to feel the visceral

17:17

experience of of being compassionate and I think that's really the opportunity is helping men feel in a

17:25

different way and ultimately helping men love a new way and when I talk about love I you

17:31

know I think so many of us have as men and as as just people have been taught

17:37

that love comes with conditions right and that if we don't

17:42

have the the full access to our emotional expression then we are it's easy to to intellectualize what love is

17:50

it's it's it's easy to feel the endorphins that come with love right but

17:57

then when the love wne like when those endorphins wne and it becomes just normal you know then we can really have

18:04

a misunderstood idea of what love is yeah and if we've learned love with

18:09

conditions we can often put love with conditions those expectations on others and also

18:15

ourselves and so that's why when I I when I think about when I think about compassion I always think about that

18:20

love is at the root of it and it's really moving from this idea of love

18:26

with conditions to this visceral experience of unconditional love and what does it look like when men have the

18:32

experience to be able to really give and receive unconditional love

18:39

freely and what becomes possible and that's really the whole premise of the book yeah that um yeah I think the

18:47

receiving of unconditional love might be you know more difficult of the two for a lot

18:55

for for a lot of men it's funny you talk about faith I'm Evangelical Christian so

19:00

um and we we we watch this show called The Chosen I'm not I'm not sure you're familiar with it but I I love the

19:07

portrayal of Jesus in that because to me as a man he is like the

19:13

quintessential um example obviously as a Christian um you know it's is an

19:18

important example but he is you know the dude was a carpenter he was not a frail man like you know some Catholic art

19:25

would portrayal he didn't look like he wasn't feminine in any way you know Carpenters at that point Didn't Have

19:31

skill saws and and table saws and all that everything was done by hand they're picking you know picking up big Timbers

19:38

so he would actually been a fit what would be defined as masculine right but

19:44

his level of you know unconditional love to the extreme

19:50

but his whole message is come to me no matter what you've done who you are like

19:57

it it does doesn't matter like those things because that's the true unconditional love from his perspective

20:03

and and having those two sides of him is a great example you know whether you

20:08

believe in the Bible or any of that stuff or not looking at Jesus as a as a man and as a person um is something that

20:16

has always been super attractive to me you know as an example to

20:23

me yeah I think um um the I've had this conversation a

20:29

number of times it was actually when I was in seminary that this whole notion for

20:35

me um and what I coined was this this idea of compassionate

20:41

masculinity what if masculinity was wrapped in compassion what would that look like um and it really was this idea

20:49

of as men if we come into our integrated masculine feminine

20:56

you know the best qualities of both you know and we start to we come

21:02

into a different level of balance you know and we're able to to and I think the best description is

21:09

balancing strength with tenderness right or or strength with

21:16

sensitivity um that you know compassionate masculinity war or compassion is all

21:21

about the integration in the blend and when we come into our full selves that's what makes us fully human

21:28

and you know and I I I never I never use words like toxic masculinity I never talk about because I don't think it is

21:35

right I I have a sign on my wall that says uh toxic mascul masculinity is not

21:41

toxic some men can suck it's there it's not a toxic

21:46

masculinity it could be just someone you know a person that is conveying themselves as toxic you know I think

21:52

it's it's a construct right it's a construct that was created what I I find is it's a

22:00

construct that men that that a number of men have just gleaned on to that's their identity yeah right and without with

22:09

with the absence of of access or stigma around the feminine and so we're we're kind of

22:16

operating imbalanced and kind of lopsided right but what that that

22:23

feminine energy gives us and and I distinguish between the masculinity and femininity and masculin feminine energy

22:29

and that those energies when we are able to tap into them and become more

22:35

balanced I mean that's that's what gives us the ability to be strong and also to be

22:41

compassionate um what I find is in in a lot of spaces in working with men we

22:46

either why doing one of two things we either coming in hyper masculine and and

22:52

trying to beat the emotions out of us to get us to feel something yeah push that way way way down

22:59

it comes up and then you just know but the flip side of it is and what I've seen in a lot of conscious communities

23:06

is there's such a demonization of the masculine that it's all in the

23:12

feminine and and then it then we're moving into this emasculation of

23:17

men right and I think what we we're navigating in the world is as the world

23:24

as the as the feminine becomes more elevated how do we support men to

23:29

navigate a changing world without emasculating men in the process and that's why I think this is

23:36

the this is the balance of how do we become integrated how do we become whole

23:41

how do we unblock the the the wounds that are holding us

23:46

from love you know and as an Interfaith Minister I I really subscribe

23:54

to um the teachings of Christ I subscribed to shamanic practice and just

24:00

the connection to the Earth I'm also part of Cherokee talk about that in the book and so and then um one of the most

24:08

Transcendent transformational experiences I had in seminary was was learning about the Sufi Sufi traditions

24:13

and Sufi wisdom and and the lot you know you can translate to like roomy poetry and so

24:18

much of it is around the the the the joy of the soul the the the the the the the

24:26

the the dancing and the play of the soul but really it's it's really

24:31

saying how do we unblock the wounds so Jesus is saying you know the message is love the

24:39

sufis are saying how do you unblock what's what's what's holding you back where are the cracks for the love to

24:44

come through and how can you expand the possibility of love for yourself so that

24:51

you the more we love ourselves that's that that gets them the love that we can have for others

24:58

yeah do you one of the things we've talked about on this podcast a few times with different guests is just my concern

25:06

for young men now especially I mean you're you're about my age I'm 50 um and

25:13

you know when we were growing up it probably leaned towards the other side of the Continuum right it's you know hyper masculine in sports and and all of

25:21

those kind of growing up but it seems like now and I don't know if you can talk to this at all in your study

25:28

but these young guys 16 17 18 and and in

25:33

that early 20s like I I feel for them because I don't think that they know how

25:39

to become men like I don't think there's any because it's such a dynamic and

25:44

honestly weird time in that way and in in some cases

25:49

they're told that it's not okay to to lean into masculinity it's if you lean

25:55

into feminine energy then you're this this or that you know and so I'm I'm

26:01

curious like what what you're seeing in that regard you know for my own

26:06

edification more than anything but but that's kind of what we've talked about a lot yeah well I think it's um you know

26:15

I'm going to go back to what I started I think there's just a lot of confusion you know when you are

26:21

told that there's something wrong with your gender and you're getting that message

26:28

um that's that's going to that's going to impact your psyche and and I find when when when

26:35

young men and I'll say um when I have 20 somethings come into my groups they're

26:41

often coming in from this place that they've talked about um you know why I

26:46

keep hearing the masculine is bad so a lot of the work I'm doing is no the masculine is good we need this we just

26:52

don't need so much of it that it's out of balance and then it's creating more problems for for

26:58

us right and so um I I I think boys

27:05

young men and and Men you I think I think some of what we're missing is we're missing some of this

27:10

intergenerational connection I think we're missing some of the

27:16

mentoring um you know and and I talk about this but you know as a as a gay

27:22

man who came out at 16 or 15 in 19 90 I

27:28

just turned 50 myself so um you know I 16 I started a gay lesbian youth group

27:34

for the city of Dayton Ohio which still exists today um because I I wanted a

27:39

safe space for for gay men and lesbian it's you know it's pretty much all the community was back then yeah it it

27:46

didn't have as many letters in 19 as many letters um to have a safe place to come

27:52

out you know because what I was doing I was sneaking in gay bars at at 16 and

27:57

like and I'm like wait you know what what's happening here and that wasn't that wasn't where I wanted to

28:04

be um and so you know I think right now

28:12

we're just we're seeing a lot of we're we're we're like I was saying

28:20

the the intergenerational piece the mentoring piece you know when for me you

28:26

know the generation before me was wiped out with AIDS MH pretty much and then I

28:32

I think when I was 45 someone said you know you're you're an elder in the community Micha I'm only 45 I'm not

28:37

ready to be an elder right but it but it showed me

28:42

the the um the need for the mentoring you know probably even we need

28:49

more mentoring than we need coaches at this point I think right yeah you know and I think to you know I think two

28:55

things are missing one the inter generational mentoring and then

29:00

two what so many folks before us had we're we're s we're rights a passage and

29:08

initiation hey guys thanks for listening to this episode I hope you're enjoying it and learning a lot if you're looking

29:13

for extra help don't forget that I do offer one-on-one coaching we can talk through a ton of different issues I can

29:19

give you guides guidelines and logistical help to help you take that next step or go to that next level in

29:26

some of the things that you're dealing with in your life we also have some course content some guides uh and a lot

29:32

of educational materials over at MaxOut man.com for the coaching go ahead and go to MaxOut man.com coaching and you can

29:40

learn about that and then just go to MaxOut man.com for everything else thanks for joining us now back to the

29:45

episode you know um they just came natural with with with you

29:51

know that we just don't have you know even if it was the you know going into

29:58

the military or going into service you know of some sort we just we just don't

30:03

have that these days and so I think there's just not the the the structures in place that support

30:11

men and young men is they trying to navigate and I think then we have um

30:18

like I said I'll keep coming back to you know social media is in some ways is great in other ways it's it's I think

30:24

it's kind of killing us oh I I I lean towards the destroying our society side

30:30

of that I mean I see the value in it but you know if you look at I mean just statistically and timelines and those

30:36

graphs it's it's pretty clear yeah yeah and then and then you add a a

30:42

pandemic and isolation I think that's that's exasperated both the isolation and

30:48

loneliness um and not necessarily navigating the being able to navigate the gender

30:55

the shifting gender rules and roles and I think we're just creating more divides between men and women and then when you

31:00

add the conversations around trans and non-binary that's just creating even more confusion for a lot of

31:06

men you know sure and so I think it's I think we're we are

31:11

in um just really challenging times for for men and and young men to navigate

31:18

how do I find my way yeah I remember I was on I was on a I was on a talk with

31:23

other men's work leaders I remember the guy for me was saying you know we need

31:28

to we need to show young men the way and I I came up right after and I

31:34

said no we don't we don't need which what is the way right exactly you don't

31:40

need to show men young men the way I think we need to ask young men the

31:45

questions so that they can be in an inquiry to find their way right I think it's really in when I

31:54

when I the way I look at you know the ways we deepen our own even our spiritual understanding because I think

32:00

when I when I look at all the challenges out there I just say you know my first reaction is a lot of men are in

32:06

spiritual crisis you know we don't have when I look at I go into Faith organizations I

32:12

go into churches I'm like at this point I'm like okay so it's like 80 90% women

32:19

where are the men where do men go for Spiritual discussions and so the other element of

32:25

my book is is even just to make this success like practical spirituality for dudes of like just because I I think

32:32

they're not ready to like in my book go to go to Asheville with Shaman and

32:37

Mystics but I do get out the high Wasa and let's go to town right yeah you know

32:42

those sorts of things but I do think a lot of men have a lot of spiritual questions that they're just not asking

32:48

or don't have a place to ask and when we when we move to you know the atheist

32:53

agnostic spiritual not religious you know where do you go for Spiritual Community

33:01

where do you go for that inner compass that sacred compass that moral compass of how you navigate the world so I think

33:07

there's also that that Dimension that I speak more to that I don't often hear in a lot of men's

33:14

circles is the spiritual component without being overly religious they may

33:19

turn some folks off but really an invitation to say there is a a a spiritual path for you that your soul

33:27

was calling you to walk you know how do you how to help you get quieter to

33:32

listen and then find your way yeah and and even with that it's a little bit of

33:38

a you know it's a it's a navigation that that becomes difficult because I always I joke and call it you know leaning into

33:45

the Woo Woo which is you know that that stuff which has its own stigma and and

33:50

you know that I lean more towards conservative Christianity and uh obviously but you know I two your point

33:57

about mentoring I'm curi you know it seems like too as somebody that's you know if I wanted to try to Mentor a

34:03

young person first of all trying to have that connection because it's you know the it's a little crazy but then also

34:10

having that freedom to what how I can and can't share my own experiences my

34:17

own because I lean more to conservative like is it okay to talk about my values and without without even trying to

34:24

enforce them on someone or indoctrinate them or whatever but just to give my perspective because I I feel like in in

34:31

my case a you know 50-year-old you know long-term married monogamous white male

34:39

you know Christian how do you like am I able to then share my experiences my

34:45

knowledge my values with a young man just as a perspective not necessarily as like you need to be just like me kind of

34:53

a thing yeah it's

34:58

um it's crazy where we are right now isn't it that that you have to ask that question yeah right yeah right right the

35:07

you like growing up that never would have been a question no and today it is

35:13

a question and that's that's why you know my my belief is one we all have a

35:18

story and we all have a journey and that we can share our experiences we can share our Journeys

35:28

and that we can share it from the perspective as long as we're not saying

35:33

this is the way but we can say this was my way and this is what worked for me

35:38

and this is what gave me joy this is what gives me happiness this is what gives me meaning and then I think if we can then

35:46

as a mentor ask the questions so what what resonates for you in that what

35:51

questions you have what doesn't resonate for you so I think if we can hold our story loosely ly not

35:58

tightly and I think if we can honor that the person in front of us it may not be

36:04

that that that my journey um is your journey doesn't have to be but I do

36:10

think that um sharing from from our experiences of what works how to

36:16

navigate to be a sounding board to to ask the questions and and have have

36:22

young men feel free to ask us questions um and and I I don't think coming from a

36:31

conservative religious Christian Perspective you know I I I tend to be

36:38

someone who works primarily with conservatives and so it just happens to be that this is

36:45

this is the community that that I have probably the most connection with

36:51

interesting my boyfriend is a republican conservative and is that even allowed I thought there was like some sort of set

36:57

of rules that you guys are handed out B you I don't go by rules well I

37:04

have to for sure um and so I think it's you know and I I find that so many

37:10

conservatives are are now at a point where they're afraid to share their views you know and and and many of them

37:16

say I'm a moderate but anything that I say is going to come off like I'm on the right so far on the right and and that's

37:25

that's that's not okay it's it's you know if we're really and I was in a

37:31

conversation recently talking about how do we engage all men how do we create a national

37:37

initiative to engage men around healthy masculinity it was a it was a National Conference or discussion and I noticed

37:44

it was very much a um Progressive

37:50

conversation and it was very much we the Democrats and them the the Republicans

37:56

and and I just kind of stood up and I said okay so if we want to create a national initiative the first thing we

38:01

have to do is get beyond our partisanship right very partisan conversation and I can tell you right

38:07

now that your Progressive language can't be heard by conservative years at this point we are so

38:13

divided so I think we need to get Beyond identity and politics and go to the next

38:18

level which is how do we speak from our shared Humanity of our Collective we and that's going to be the ways that

38:25

we engage start engaging men across the Continuum and I think the other piece is

38:32

you know what I find is the more I talk Humanity um and that's how I'm you know

38:39

when I when I start bringing in the humanity conv because I think what we really do in our interactions is we are mirrors of each other's

38:46

Humanity we are we are reminders of our Humanity when I was a college professor I would always tell my students you know

38:52

I'm not teaching rocket science I would teach or behavior organizational change um management

38:58

leadership so I'm just teaching you Common Sense practices that aren't commonly practiced I'm just reminding

39:05

you of what's already within you and I think that's that's that's

39:10

really you know the more we can see each other in our Humanity you know the more that we can

39:16

see even if I'm we might be diametrically opposed in some of our views if we can just acknowledge okay

39:22

those are our views but that's not our Humanity MH and then I I see you know

39:28

the way you love your children the way you care about um your community maybe

39:35

how you feel about the environment you know whatever the wherever you're really

39:40

showing like where's your heart where's your where's your compassion where's your connection yeah you know and then

39:48

the the the question is and where are you disconnected you know and that's within

39:53

you that's not you and your relationship to society that's just within you where's where's the inner turmoil yeah

39:59

and that's the place to start you know Finding peace mhm and I think that's the

40:05

that's the opportunity we have here and that's the opportunity I think that we have with men is to be able because I I find that

40:13

so many are just like in some sort of inner turmoil without with very few places to

40:18

be able to express it or very few Outlets to be able to do it in a healthy way right yeah and that's that's the

40:25

opportunity and I think Society right now especially with the narratives and media and all

40:31

that like we they want us to believe that everyone is on both ends of that

40:38

Continuum right between conservative and super liberal and like you like you pointed out I think most people are in

40:45

the moderate you know we have our we have our particular beliefs on on certain hot button topics but that

40:50

doesn't necessarily Define who we are you know my daughter is is a lesbian

40:56

married to a woman I'm a Conservative Christian dad obviously that that would not have been the lifestyle that I I had

41:04

envisioned but we we love her and and it's interesting because and I I've I don't think I've ever told this story

41:10

before but but basically when she was when she came out to us and had that conversation she's like well I know

41:18

you're going to love me anyway and and having that um having

41:23

that her faith in that love was was super important to us and and we've had

41:28

conversation about you know weddings and marriage and and all of those things and be able to navigate that in an open and

41:35

honest way with her and we absolutely love her wife we've you know I consider

41:41

now I have three daughters instead of two daughters she's actually in the Army deployed right now so be able to have

41:47

these conversations as Dad to a to a soldier you know and all those things and and like you would if you just

41:54

looked at my quote unquote you know societal resume and you left that part

42:00

out you would you would never be able to believe that that part of my story is

42:06

true right because we're we're told that that's not that's not okay you're supposed to kick that kid out and never

42:11

love them and never talk to them again and and I think that's the narrative that we're told um you know in

42:20

society yeah I think um there's two things there you know I think the supposed to we start when we start

42:27

realizing we're using the word should you know that's the opportunity to get curious and say okay but why

42:33

where's that should coming from you know what should we do but I think the bigger

42:39

the bigger point is that we we often just want to put put people in buckets in

42:44

categories and and and create these monoliths you know I mean men you know

42:51

all men are you know we we we put like all men are this yeah right

42:57

um all Republicans are this all all Democrats are this you know progressives

43:02

conservatives like no I think M know majority of people are a combination of

43:09

many things and we just want to add that label to say okay this is how we categorize

43:14

you and then we're losing the dimensions of the complexity of each person and

43:19

that's why I think the the the approach of inquiry is so much more important

43:24

than the than the idea of I'm going to show you the way because none of this is

43:29

a one-size fits all at this point and it's nuanced and it's complex and we are

43:36

complex and so um breaking out of because you are X you should think like

43:44

this and then life happens it throws you a curveball and then you're like huh what do I really think about it or

43:53

like you said the love transcends everything else MH and you start to figure out what your way

43:59

is you know and still how do you be Integrity with your own values hey guys

44:05

thanks for listening to this episode I hope you're enjoying it and learning a lot if you're looking for extra help don't forget that I do offer one-on-one

44:12

coaching we can talk through a ton of different issues I can give you guides guidelines and logistical help to help

44:19

you take that next step or go to that next level in some of the things that you're dealing with in your life we also

44:24

have some course content some guides uh and a lot of educational materials over

44:30

at maxed out man.com for the coaching go ahead and go to maxed out man.com coaching and you can learn about that

44:37

and then just go to max out man.com for everything else thanks for joining us now back to the episode yeah I and in in our case to to

44:45

that point it was like we had people that were like you know we actually had more liberal people in our lives

44:54

basically like judging us for not being out at a gay R you know at a pride rally

44:59

next weekend and then we had conservatives going well I don't know what I would do if my you know I would do this this and this and it's like dude

45:06

you neither one of you are going through this so why don't you just shut up but

45:12

but it was interesting because again everybody wants to label everybody and kind of put them in this thing and I

45:17

often wonder uh like in our case with with a lot of the people that we come in

45:23

contact with these are non-christians and for the most part they don't know what to do with my wife and I because

45:30

you know we've been married for 28 years we're conservative Christians we love you know we're fairly loving people I

45:36

think I told you before that my my kids call me the judgmental bastard but I I my actual interactions with people

45:42

wouldn't wouldn't be indicative of that but we were kind of the first Christians and conservatives that these people had

45:49

come in contact with and they often couldn't wrap their minds around it because they're like wait the people I

45:55

see on the news that are wearing Maga hats and you know trying to bash gay

46:00

people and telling you know hate the environment and all of these things like how do like they don't know what to do

46:06

with you because they're they they can't really wrap their mind around the fact that people are different people are

46:12

Dynamic you know about that yeah yeah no I mean the fact that

46:20

you know a lot of my Progressive friends when they when they hear that I will work with you know it's a queer

46:27

Progressive Minister work with extremist and for and white nationalists that are you know I'm

46:35

like how does that work and I'm like it just does you know and and I think it's you

46:41

know part of this is the more we can defy some of this logic and really show what what it means

46:49

when we when we share compassionate Humanity with each other yeah you know

46:54

and that you know so many so many men right now are just lost confused

47:02

frustrated angry um

47:08

and you know how do we just show more compassionate Humanity for each other

47:16

yeah and what um I want to be respectful of your time but what what

47:22

um kind of where do men start to kind of begin this

47:28

journey yeah kind of how how would you obviously we want to have them go buy your book that's a good start but you

47:35

know to kind of learn more of the in intricacies of those things but if someone's just like I'm here I'm exactly

47:42

the guy that he's talking about and and I don't really know even how to begin to

47:48

have the conversation with myself right um to begin the

47:54

process you know I um when I was in DC when I lived in DC before I moved to

48:00

Philadelphia I um I was pretty lonely in DC it's it can be a hard place to it's a

48:05

great place to work it's a hard place to live sometimes yeah um and uh I created

48:10

something called men's Soul Adventures DC Outdoor Adventure meets deeper male

48:17

bonding meets Soul connecting either uh philosophical existential or Spiritual Awakening

48:24

discussions and I thing I just was like I I just want to create community of of cool people who are conscious and want

48:30

to want to explore uh I put it out on meet up 52

48:36

guys signed up in the first 24 hours wow I was not expecting that by the time I left DC we had 180 guys in the group

48:44

nice and um and it kind of I started I got I got

48:49

savv at one point I just started saying so why why is soul Adventure why not just an adventure and it came into the

48:55

response were three things one they just wanted to venture but just this sounded cool so it's like that was like a third

49:01

of the group another third said they wanted deeper connection with other men and then another third said they

49:08

wanted to explore um they wanted to explore spirituality on some level um

49:15

and they just had questions and they wanted to go deeper and um and so I started to just you know I

49:24

think that the first step in my book that I talk about is the first step is find Community with men and go do

49:30

something I don't necessarily think we need to sit in a room and I'm I'm biased here but I I sometimes I think okay if

49:38

I'm just going to sit in a men's Circle in a in a room with four walles that's going to drive me

49:45

crazy just that's not that's like I I'm I'm horrible at at mindfulness of

49:50

meditation like I I I do my own adaptation of what works for me

49:56

so I think to answer your question I think one finding a way to connect with more men because I think the thing that

50:02

happens when we can start breaking the ice we realize the biggest thing we're

50:07

not alone we're not alone in what we're struggling with second thing I learned was with men

50:14

when working with men um I would I would put out like intimacy labs and relationship labs and and all these

50:21

things and and no no one would ever come

50:27

so I learned the power it's not the head-on collision it's the driveby and so in the driveby I would take men out

50:33

on a on a soul adventure and then we do a little bit of like meditation or just listening and getting quiet and the

50:40

first one I did I always do it the the the week after Easter It's usually the week after Easter right U right be right

50:47

after Passover in the middle of Ramadan and you know so that's really a time of of of new beginnings and

50:54

Awakening and and and and so I just kind of put

51:00

that out there and I kid you not the moment I said okay so what what what are New Beginnings for you every guy I'm in

51:07

a divorce I'm getting divorced I'm just out of like I'm in a breakup I'm and every guy wanted to talk about their

51:13

relationships I'm like okay so the driveby just create that invitation just

51:19

enough and and two things happen one guys don't realize how deep they can go

51:25

so quickly mhm and they how much they're willing to share and be

51:31

vulnerable and two again that that power of I'm not alone so I think the first

51:37

thing is um look for some of those opportunities to just connect with with men on a deeper level but do it in a way

51:45

that works for you right you know um and

51:50

then I would say you know the second thing I often say say is start to practice seeing the

51:58

world with childlike wonder what I mean by that so many of us

52:04

have had this idea that we have to be serious and we can't be playful or we've had to let go of of the

52:11

playful the the playfulness and when you think about it when we came out of the womb we had everything we

52:17

needed you know we had we had all of it we had we had we had our our whole selves and then day by day piece by

52:25

piece certain certain parts of us just started to like get suppressed get rejected get voted off the island and so

52:32

I think this work is really reclaiming that you know I think this work is one

52:40

taking the time to discover the truth of who we are at our core you know in

52:46

connection with our soul you know and then to see

52:51

others as they are on their journey to discover themselves eles and they find their

52:57

truth and then to be able to the biggest part is then to be able to accept both truths as true without one truth being

53:03

better than the other right and that's I think the hardest part for folks yeah that's the

53:09

challenge right from that place that that is the place where I

53:15

think we can start to um come into this work of humanity but to your question I

53:20

think it's first two things to do um

53:25

find a community of guys start to play together give each

53:31

other permission to play and then give each other permission to go deep and then start to discover and be on a

53:36

journey together I love it I think it's I think it's great and I think you know one of

53:42

the the the best things about this podcast is to be able to have conversations that I

53:49

ordinarily would not be able to have like and this is I think this is a great ex a great example of that because

53:55

obviously my background and your background and who you are and who I am um at the surface seems like they're in

54:03

you know in a in in some ways they're diametrically opposed like I said like if you look at our societal resume right

54:09

but but there's so much connection here that you and I can have and have this open and honest conversation regardless

54:15

of whether or not uh you know we totally agree one of my best friends is a is an

54:20

atheist and we can have that open and honest conversation without the vitriol that I think is a is quote unquote

54:27

expected of us um and and I think this is you know not that this is that

54:33

diametrically opposed but I think this is an awesome conversation I think that I think hopefully this will serve as as

54:39

a as a learning experience and a good example for for people that that want to listen to it but hey tell me so it's

54:45

it's Warrior compassion.com right Warrior compassion.com here here's the

54:50

book nice yeah and this will I think we're probably a few weeks out from this launching so you'll we we'll be able to

54:57

see that you'll have more than four five-star reviews I think like you had this morning so it's it's good it's better than four onestar reviews it's

55:04

true true true number number of people are buying the book and um people that

55:09

have already ordered in the pre-sale they'll be getting their book in a couple weeks nice so um yeah I'm excited

55:16

I'm excited I'm I'm starting to organize a 12 City Tour across the country a book

55:21

tour and um you know getting this uh Last Night A buddy of mine started using

55:28

the book and starting to create a curriculum for men's circles oh cool um and so uh finding new ways to just bring

55:34

the message for me it's less about buying the selling the book and more about just getting the message out yeah

55:40

and did you do an audiobook version of it I did not not yet not yet well I might need that so you'll have to just

55:47

record one you just have to record one for me personally so you got it you got it got it I'm sure you do that for

55:54

everybody you know uh Hey man Sean thank you very much I appreciate for uh your time and for coming and sharing what you

56:00

do I'm I'm uh I'm very thankful for for this time and and uh I wish you the best

56:06

with the new book and with the tour and with everything you're doing to kind of help men you know as we say be who you

56:12

are made to be right like it to that's that's our little tagline is to help people you know wherever you're starting

56:18

you could probably be be be not necessarily better but be more than than you're than you are right now so

56:25

appreciate that very much and hope you have an awesome day oh thank you so much it's been great being with you being

56:30

with you if you're looking to really maximize your life and become the man

56:35

you were made to be head over to maxed out man.com and get your journey started

56:42

[Music] today