Legally Exhausted
Legally Exhausted
The Evolution of Attorney Imani Williams | Confidence, Social Media & Slip & Fall Law | EP. 59
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Three years after her first appearance on the podcast, attorney Imani Williams returns to catch up with Abraham Ovadia on how much her career — and confidence — have evolved.
In this episode of Legally Exhausted, Imani reflects on the early days of speaking in front of doctors at the FCPA and how nervous she was the very first time Abe pushed her to do it. Years later, she talks about becoming far more confident in public speaking, networking, and building her professional presence both online and in person.
The conversation dives into how her perspective on slip-and-fall cases completely changed over time. What she once disliked has now become one of the practice areas she enjoys most, especially after handling major premises liability and slip-and-fall settlements. Imani explains why these cases are much more complicated than many people realize and what it takes to properly build and litigate them.
Abe and Imani also talk about how much the legal industry has changed with social media and how attorneys today are expected to be more visible online. Abe admits that years ago he never imagined posting content as consistently as he does now, while praising Imani for always staying active online and creating informational videos that educate people about the law. They also discuss how networking has played a major role in her growth, how she has become more selective about the organizations she joins, and how working for a larger and more recognizable law firm has helped strengthen her reputation in the legal field. Imani also shares her experience being the only female attorney at her firm and how that has shaped her professionally.
This episode is a real conversation about growth, stepping outside your comfort zone, building confidence over time, and evolving both personally and professionally in the legal world.
I have my really, really good friend Amani Williams here. I'm super excited. We did this podcast a few years ago when she was a like one-year attorney, something around there. She's had a ton of growth. She's an amazing attorney. She's um well connected. She's in a million different organizations, groups, Florida bar stuff, all these different organizations. She's there. I met you at a networking event.
SPEAKER_01At your networking event.
SPEAKER_00At my networking event, which was which was really cool. Yeah. We went out, we had uh lunch afterwards.
SPEAKER_01And you were late. You were you had me, you stood me up low-key.
SPEAKER_00I went to the wrong restaurant. In my head, I was Abe and Louie's, but it was Rocco's tacos. My bad. I apologize. Still all these years later. Uh, we had a great time and we just stayed in touch. And like recently, we've been working out in the morning sometimes. Our other friends, Jim, doing kickboxes.
SPEAKER_01I don't know what it is these days when are we doing.
SPEAKER_00They're 5 30 a.m. workouts, and I did not want to go to 5 30 a.m. in the morning that day. Um, but I yes, you caught me red-handed, guilty as charged. I have some really cool questions for you that I want to get through. Kind of just go like recap from the prior podcast because we already talked about a lot about stuff. If people want to watch, they can watch the prior podcast. Um, but I got some really cool questions for you. Um, I just am so happy to see you grow and like conquer and kick butt. Your social media presence is like way better than mine could be. Totally authentic. It's you posting stuff like this motion getting filed, this depot took place, like all this cool litigation stuff. I love that. Um, so let's get started.
SPEAKER_01So thank you, by the way.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome. I'm your biggest fan. All right. Last time you were on, you had only been in court in person for one week. Now it's been a couple of years. How different do you feel walking into a courtroom today or doing it on Zoom? Because a lot of stuff's on Zoom.
SPEAKER_01A lot of stuff on Zoom, yeah. Um, I've been to court in person a few more times since the last time I was here. Obviously, with COVID, everything has changed. So a lot of hearings are on Zoom. Yeah. But I definitely feel official um walking to the courthouse, you know, with the special entrance. So that's cool. It's less intimidating. And to your point, just being involved in the community and getting to meet judges outside of the courtroom. It makes it a little bit more comfortable presenting like before them in their courtroom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I love that. There was when I was like super young, because now I'm old apparently. Um, so there was this one judge who was always out West Palm Beach Comatis every night of the week, just hanging out at different lawyer things, probably still doing it. And it's like you can kind of like feel comfortable in front of that guy practicing it around because you hung out with him. So less less intimidating for sure. Do you feel like you've changed as an attorney or you've just kind of grown experience-wise?
SPEAKER_01I think both. Um, I think over the years I've grown personally and professionally because I think it's important to have your personal life in order because it can pour into your work life. Um, I think, you know, now that we're more seasoned, I'm not gonna say I'm old. I'm more seasoned now. Um, proud to say in my 30s because I feel like I'm aging like a line, but you're just I'm just more mature. Um, I definitely can hold myself accountable and look back on certain things and experiences and like even now it's hard. Sometimes you take things too personal, but it's all a business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I take my craft more serious than I did, I think. I think also that comes with confidence because back then I was doing my thing, you know, building my social media presence or brand, but I wasn't really seeing what that hard work really meant, or it wasn't quote unquote paying off. Um I didn't have people telling me at the time the importance of certain things. So continue to expand my network, continue to stay connected to great people like you. I have more confidence. So yeah, it's a better feeling. I know there's still so much more room to grow, but I'm definitely different, thankfully. Um, and more calm with certain things because there's always conflict. I don't understand. Because it should be we all have a job to do, and we're trying to get paid, we're trying to get our clients paid. So I don't understand the the pettiness sometimes. But we'll I'll I'm sure something like that would come down later on in the interview.
SPEAKER_00So I'll So what's something you knew now that you didn't know back then?
SPEAKER_01I think um once again, it's a business. I think before I took a lot of things personal instead of separating my personal feelings, even though certain things may not be right, but it's a business. It's a shark industry that you and I chose to be a part of. So I think, and I'm still learning because when you're genuine, certain things are just natural qualities of you. But I think what I wish I knew back then that I know now that you these people aren't your friends. Um there are gonna be friends, so you don't need to, you know, guard yourself and miss out on potential opportunities and genuine connections. But if people are, you know, vying for the same things that you want as well, or maybe they want something you already have, you have to be careful out here. So I definitely think again, I was more naive back then than I am now. It's just like, no, like I'm nice to everyone, I respect everyone, but I'm I'm more aware that everyone doesn't have genuine intentions, even if I do. I got you.
SPEAKER_00I got you. Tell me a little bit about some of the organizations you're in. Because every time I talk to you, you're like, and we talk like once every week, once every two weeks. You're like, hey, I'm over here for this thing, I'm over here for that. Like, what organizations are you in? And then I want to get into maybe why you're in some of those organizations because I think it's amazing. I I've wanted to do things like that, but I don't make the time to, and I totally respect you doing it because it's important work that needs to be done. Right, and it's not paid, and it's unpaid, and everyone forgets that too. Yeah, but it is it is definitely prestigious to say, hey, I'm with this group, I'm with that group, and then the connections that you make there are incredible, right?
SPEAKER_01So I'll just try to probably stick to the main ones because there's a few I'm affiliated with, maybe I'm not a member anymore, but like some of the active organizations, of course, the Florida Bar Young Lawyers Division, I'm a board of governor representing the 15th circuit that we sit in. So that's been pretty fun. Um, I've been serving on their executive board, so it's been great just helping all young lawyers throughout the state because I wish when I was a baby baby lawyer, I had more guidance. Um, I am a part of the F. Malcolm Cunningham Senior Bar Association, which is kind of structured for Palm Beach County black attorneys to help the profession but also the community. But we welcome everyone. Um that was actually one of the first organizations that I joined when I was new into Palm Beach County because um the president at the time, Hershley, I was not making a lot of money back then. So I couldn't even afford really to join all these things, especially if you know you join in maybe what March and then renewal starts June. So I would have to double dip. So she was so gracious enough to let me join for free. And so from there, the rest has been history. I've gotten referrals from being a part of that bar association. I've learned more, I've just been poured into and made genuine connections and obviously being a black attorney, so it's important to me. Um, currently, something that we both are, I think, a part of Palm Beach County Justice Association. So I'm the vice chair of the young lawyers board. So again, it's my passion to help uplift young lawyers and to help strengthen ourselves in the profession. So that's something. So back then I was a part of a lot of organizations, just members, member, member, member, trying to get my name out there. Now I'm being more strategic on what I'm a part of and making sure that it's a reciprocal relationship and it's something I'm truly, truly passionate about. But then also outside of the legal world, I sit on some nonprofit boards, which is I'm also passionate about education. So um your mom's a teacher. Yeah, speech she would kill you if she heard you say that. She's a speech pathologist. Oh, she's a specialist. Thank you very much. But give my mom a shout out. She is, she's in education, but she is, she's just been re-elected to serve again as the Classroom Teachers Association vice president. So we're gonna cut you. Not totally off. Some slack on that. I don't want no problems. Um so kid children in education are uh another passion of mine. So I'm currently on the Speak Up for Kids Palm Beach County um board, which has been great. I started off as a brand ambassador, and I guess from my work, I got appointed. So that's been great. Actually, have Gala tomorrow, which I'm honorary chair, so I'm excited for that. Nice. So I'm also just recently been appointed to the Edna Runner Education Center board. And that deal, they started in Jupiter, but it basically again helps to serve like underprivileged students in certain communities, and now they're building the school. So it's been great to be a part of these organizations. And the reason why I'm joining them is just because one on the legal side, it helps me to continue to build my network, you know, meet great mentors or even serve as a mentor for another attorney. And then also I think um, from I've had clients tell me this being still considered young. Oh, I I knew that you knew such and such. So they spoke highly of you, so that's why I ended up, you know, choosing you as I was shopping around. So I think having respect in your profession is important. Although it's a lot for free. Um, it means a lot to me. I like making a difference in our profession because if we're in it, we should try to make it as good as possible. And as far as the nonprofit side, I think it's important as an attorney or just anyone to be in touch with the community because essentially the community is your, you know, your referral sources.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's cool to have we do have attorneys that refer and we do co-counsel, but I think from my experience at least, primarily your cases are gonna come from the community. So people want to see that you actually care. And I think that's important. So that's why I'm involved, both community-wise and legal-wise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I love it. Um, and you left out a really important thing as well, which I'm a little, I'm a little upset about. You left out the Florida chiropractic physician association.
SPEAKER_01It's too much to keep up.
SPEAKER_00You are speaking there. You spoke in and you're speaking again. And everyone loves.
SPEAKER_01When am I speaking again?
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna make sure you speak again.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, malentode. So, yes, thank see, this is why I love Abe. So, Abe was very kind to recommend me. Um, I spoke about ethics to over 300 chiropractors. It was, I was nervous, but again, that's how you build your confidence, just throwing yourself out there. But I really want to thank you because you just really believed in me. And to everyone watching, it's just so important to have people that can speak the winner in you because imposter syndrome is real. So I was nervous, I'm not gonna lie. It was it was just weird, but I'm happy everything went well. I got a lot of good feedback, like even at a PBCJ event, I had a few chiropractors come up and say, Hey, I saw you spoke, you did a great job. So it's like, okay, you just have to put yourself out there. So, yes, and that's the problem of just like doing everything. You sometimes forget to take time to appreciate or enjoy the moment.
SPEAKER_00So celebrate your success.
SPEAKER_01That I felt good about that. So thank you for reminding me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, um, I did get some good feedback about that, and I thought it was um really cool that you're able to do that. You know, you talked about a little imposter syndrome, and I was just talking to my buddy who's a phenomenal litigator, he's doing these big federal cases, and it's a lot of paperwork, and he's a brilliant guy. Um, and I was talking to him on his name is Mac Phillips, he's in Broward, and I was like, I was like, dude, I still to this day feel like I'm an incompetent lawyer, not good enough. I see you, and I'm like, you're a freaking genius, you know? Um, and I'm just like, I'm like, it never ends. Like, I think even the most successful lawyers are just like always gonna feel that way. And I don't know if as lawyers we're like um broken or something, and like we have to keep working and working and I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_01I think we are broken. Yeah, we chose the profession. Yeah, yeah, we chose this life.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, I I I love that you're heavily involved in the community. Um and I love that you network because a lot of lawyers just go to their office, sit there, close the door, work from home, whatever, and just keep the door closed, and they're they're not meeting new people, and somebody like you is constantly meeting new people. And I love that you're working with the younger lawyers to help you know be a resource for them. I think that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Any uh big cases that you've had um since like the last podcast, any meaningful cases that just put come to mind?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, actually, it's funny because I I do remember we talked about like slip and fall cases in the first uh podcast years ago, and I was like, I don't like them. I like I actually like trip and fall cases, slip and fall cases now. Um I'm getting money on them. I had a very significant six-figure confidential settlement um since from now until then, or from then to now. Um and it made me feel really great because when I did like kind of like a group study, everyone's like, ah, it's not worth much, or turned down, open and obvious. Or again, as I spoke about, I think in the first podcast, because I was just, you know, spitting out what people were telling me versus from my own personal experience that oh, it's the most faked and staged um injury, and especially now we're tort reform. But that's like been one of my the premises liability cases have been some of my bigger settlements over the years. So I can't complain, honestly. So that's been something very special to me. And just the fact that actually that particular case, the client, once we uh resolved the case, let me know that there was like another attorney in her ear, you know, saying, Oh, don't go with the money. I don't know, it's because of my age or whatever. But I just getting an amount that people don't expect. I guess they like there's an ego boost because I just believe in my clients. I believe in what they're saying, and that's all that matters. So yeah, I've had a quite a few. I'm waiting on my my big million dollar one. It's coming this year. I already put it on my budget board, so it's coming this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm predicting at least five million dollars on that case. So I'm putting it on.
SPEAKER_01Your lips to God's ears. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There, it's happening. You know, with with the with the slip and falls, they can they can be kind of tricky, you know. Um, there's sometimes camera footage, uh the people's shoes are really bad on the bottom, there's no grip on the bottom, um, you know, uh just stuff like that. So, you know, car accidents more simple, right? I think a lot of people would say, well, if I had the choice, I would take a car accident. Just a car hitting a car is you know simple. But the slip and falls could be different. But you know, it's a it's definitely that comes with its own set of of legal pitfalls in a slip and fall case. So um have you done any besides you know, motor vehicle slip and falls, have you have you done any other like kind of different tort cases?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so pre you know premises liability, it's so many different um types that fall under that category. So I had a case where which was another, we had to actually go through almost a trial. We settled right before trial. Um my client was staying at a resort in Fort Lauderdale, the blind shade actually detached from the wall, hits him in the head, he falls back, has to get uh procedures done. He's surgical candidate, opted not to do it, but because of like the liability and the damages, they ended up both sides. There were two parties that we sued, ended up getting another six-figure settlement. So um touch dog bites. I don't really care for them. It's not something I do often.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, dog bites can be tough because usually people who have dogs who bite are not very wealthy or have insurance.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's been it's cool to just like dibble and dabble just to get that experience. But I've done trucking cases since we last spoke. Okay, a lot of pedestrian cases, which can be really good if there's insurance for the obviously the other driver who hits them. Those have been really cool. So motorcycle cases, it's just been fun because everyone just thinks of personal injury turns as ambulance chasers or car accidents, but there's so much more, like literally any type of injury. I have a case now where um a client and his passenger they were pumping gas. The gas pump literally out of nowhere breaks, gasoline just explodes. The client has asthma at that. So it's it's pretty fun once you start getting different when people trust you enough to start sending you the nuance type of areas of personal injury or premises liability cases or whatever outside of auto accidents. So it's been fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, wow, that's an interesting case. Um, yeah, I that's I wouldn't want that case. It's it's it's got did you need any like special experts or anything on the case?
SPEAKER_01Right now it's still early on, but we have video footage, so that helps a lot. Um and they have accepted liability, so right now it's just we're talking about how much. So to your point though, we actually turned down the passenger because it wasn't enough exposure aside from him not treating anyway. Okay. Um it can be difficult, but the damages, and because he was already an asthmatic, so he had to go to the hospital, you know, steroids, um, still having side effects now. Wow, that the damages help. So that's another thing. Like damages are important with those premises liability cases. Because if it's just soft tissue, not gonna get much. It might not even be worth our time not to take away from anyone's injuries or things they go through, but it's just hard with tort reform.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. And then, you know, for me, the big part is like we're able to kind of, you know, is like justice, right? We're not allowed to take somebody's whole situation and take it away from them, but we can kind of, you know, help compensate them financially for their their medical bills that they're gonna have, you know, and and people don't realize that when they talk about an imbalance chaser, they think, oh, they're just getting money. It's like, no, I'm getting money to pay for their medical bills, for the treatment that they need, for the treatment that they needed and got.
SPEAKER_01And we'll be in the future.
SPEAKER_00And we'll need in the future for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, I it's I had a lady, she's like, I was so inconvenienced by this guy. I'm like, uh inconvenienced isn't damages, you know. Um so damages are definitely important in some of these cases. But you know, I always tell people, I'm like, hey, I'm I'm I'm thankful that you called me and we can talk about it. It's just not a case we want.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Totally get that. So right now you're at one of the most prestigious, I would say, law firms in Palm Beach County. They've been around a really long time. I think almost 100 years.
SPEAKER_01We're in year 99 now, yeah.
SPEAKER_0099. Wow, that's cool. Most businesses, law firms, 10 years is like the going rate for most law firms. So 99 years is pretty cool. I hope they do like a Jay-Z 99 problems kind of video for their page. But I mean, been around the longest. Yes, yes. Um, they have my blessing on that. Um, really prestigious law firm. I think it's awesome that you're there. I think just being there adds so much value for you in terms of like, oh, you worked over there? Because I remember my buddy worked over there, and I'm like, oh, that's a good firm, dude. They know what they're doing. Um, what would you say is the number one takeaway that you've learned from being there that's helped you as a lawyer?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so yeah, I I love working there. We've we were first Lester, Lester, Landy, and Smith, but it's now Lester Landing Smith and Siegel. So I to your point, the takeaway I've gotten now, now that I'm you know more secure and confident in myself, that it's okay to, you know, ride the coattail of someone who's more senior than I am. Because I know for a fact, and I've had people, you know, tell me this to my face, but I just know this from just life experiences that someone's gonna take me more serious, especially at my age, especially being a double minority, because I am attached to this firm. Obviously, I've had I literally had a client tell me, he's like, I know, he's like, I looked at the website, he's like, You're the only black female there. He's like, I know you know what you're doing because you're there, which is interesting that people think like that. It used to offend me because why can't I just be good enough in my you know own right? But now it's like, okay, fine. If if that's why you decide to come with me or let me represent you because you I'm at a great firm and I'm backed by Gary, Joe, Glenn, and all our other partners at the firm, great. It's nothing wrong with that. Like it's really okay because we both actually balance each other because there's things that I know I bring to the table being a younger attorney. So that's something that I take away from it now and that I'm okay with. But prior to, I think it was more um it kind of dampened my spirit a little bit because again, I'm like, well, why can't I be taken seriously? We have the same degrees, I have like multiple state licenses, like I, you know, so it's fine now.
SPEAKER_00I gotcha. I mean, I think I think for sure, you know, Gary was uh Florida Bar president, right? And he's well, well known throughout the state, and I think I think that's you know a great um kind of like opportunity to have uh a unique opportunity too, because I'm sure those guys know what they're doing and and uh just adds to the credibility. But you know, in your own right, absolutely you're an incredible attorney, um, incredible person, good friend. Um thinking people are gonna be like, what's going on here? Um, but you know, I I I love that you're there because I to me I'm like, wow, that's pretty freaking cool. You know, everybody thinks like Morgan and Morgan, but it's like they're the biggest, they're not necessarily the best, you know. Um and they do good work. I'm not knocking them, but uh, you know, that's a name in the community for a hundred years now. Correct. What type of cases is there a particular type of case that you would like that you enjoy handling? Is there is there any outside outside of personal injury? Have you done any like other types of things outside of personal injury?
SPEAKER_01No, I've done personal injury since
SPEAKER_00Becoming a lawyer, so depot's favorite depot.
SPEAKER_01My favorite deposition was of this one corporate rep for a hotel. And it only was my favorite because it was the toughest. So, you know, talking to people at the top of the pyramid, they're not always the easiest to get information out of. So the fact that I was able to get liability admitted when, you know, their counsel was for the longest saying that they weren't responsible. That was like one of my favorites. So it was one, because I was nervous because that was my first at the time corporate rep and someone of that you know status. Um, and then two, getting them to actually admit what I wanted them. So that was cool to get for sure. But I think overall, my favorite case to work, obviously if the damages are great and there's great insurance, amazing. But the few moments where there's just very kind clients, and I know it's not it's a business, but we're all human. Um, as much as we're supposed to be impartial, it it's a great feeling when you when someone appreciates the work that you do and the time that you put in as well. So those are some of my just like genuinely nice people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I really dislike clients who call me every day. And I'm like, dude, nothing's nothing's changed with your case. We're working on it. Yeah, it's good. Um, I'm doing a favor for a guy right now. They got sued by Geico and uh it's a clinic. And he calls me every day. And I'm like, every day. I started texting him in the morning. I said, Hey, nothing's no updates on your case, still waiting for an offer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00I I can't give you an update, man. Like, leave me alone.
SPEAKER_01The worst is when a client is always reaching out about an update, but they're not doing what they're supposed to do as far as treating.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, make it make sense. I literally actually before our um discussion today, I had to send an email. I have a client now who literally has been, I just spoke with her Wednesday. She's texted my assistant this morning what's the case status. So I sent a nice, very thorough CYA email basically saying, like, you know, we're not gonna have a weekly, sometimes even bi-weekly update, especially being that we just signed up. So at this point, the ball is in your court, it's treatment. Let us know how treatment is going. We've put everyone on notice. Yeah, there's insurance, yeah. We have to investigate. So it's just yeah, I I think that maybe because some attorneys give unrealistic expectations. That's not my style, and that's something else I can say I do differently. Now, like back then, I was much more of a people pleaser. I wanted everyone to be happy, but if someone isn't happy with you, 9.9 out of 10, they are just unhappy in general. So it's just deflection from the accident. Um, so now it's just like, you know, if me being honest with you and direct turned you off, or you go hire a new attorney, it wasn't the case for me because I actually learned the hard way uh a year, almost two years ago. Um, I had representing the husband and wife, they were problematic from the start. But I was still newer, still obviously, you know, your value is how much book of business you could bring. So I'm, you know, stacking in my cases, and by the grace of God, I'm blessed with cases. So I do have the ability now to be like, yeah, this isn't working out. But went through a lot, tolerated so much. I would obviously cover myself in emails, but it was just always conflict to the point where this man literally popped up to the office, calls a scene. And so in that moment I learned like when a client is a problem and it's not even a good enough case, sometimes it's better to just wash your hand because that can end up in a bar complaint. And yes, it'll get dismissed, but the fact that you still have to respond when something comes out, I don't have time for that, especially like being more involved with the Florida bar. I don't take that lightly. So I'm good on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So you're smarter than me already because I'm like, I'm like, I'm thinking, okay, this case, it has X amount of value. I can handle this, I know what I'm doing. Uh, problematic client. Client thinks that their case is worth a hundred million dollars and it's not. There's a $10,000 BI policy, and that's what it's worth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, the at fault party doesn't have extra insurance, whatever.
SPEAKER_01So And they don't have UM.
SPEAKER_00And they don't have UM. Yeah. I love reminding people when they tell me like this is all you can get me. I'm like, well, did you purchase uninsured motorist coverage? Because then I could get you more. And they're like, no, I don't have that. And and people, you know, it's not their fault, right? They don't know what UM coverage is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it took me like, I was just doing pip suits my first couple years, so I didn't know what UM was. I was like, what the hell is that for? I just knew pip. I was like, everything has pip. I didn't know anything, right? Like I had to learn all that stuff on my own. But um, you know, to go back to that, I will hold on to a client that is a problem, knowing that it's not gonna make me any richer. I'm still gonna, it's not gonna make my change, it's not gonna change my life. Let me put it that way. And I'm helping them because I I want to help them, I know I can help them, but like I'm not there yet where I could just say, you know what, it's not gonna work out for us, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, you know, try everything. Okay, we want to talk every week, fine. We'll talk. And uh, I just had a realization a few months ago. I'm like, listen, no, we're not gonna do this for you. That cannot be done. And I think it's like empowering as a lawyer too, because I've been doing this 15 years and I just learned.
SPEAKER_01I keep over your content. I feel like there was a video that you shared.
SPEAKER_00It was about Ashley Moody and the power of no to the senator. Yeah, she did a thing about how she told some guy, it was another senator, he kept grilling somebody, and uh she's like, hey, listen, we don't have time for that. And he's like, You're not gonna give me time, and he she goes, No. And then I was like, you know what? No, because there was this one client wanting and wanting and wanting. And I said, I said we don't have the time for this. Like, we have other clients who need our help more, and there's a limited number of time and minutes in the day. I can't I can't help you like this. So, you know, we try to do the best we can for everybody, but for some people to go to your point, they're never happy, they're never happy, and uh you just can't please everybody. So I am I am still a people pleaser, though.
SPEAKER_01I am terribly terribly. It benefits me, so thank you. I but when you're a people pleaser, you just have to make sure you have this is obviously outside of business, but you just have to have the right people around and appreciate because the takers have no limits. Like give an inch, they take them all.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Do you feel more confident now that you've got this, you know, mega law firm name, that you have this track record of personal success, that you have these um memberships, these groups that you're a part of, that you're in leadership positions? Do you feel that that has given you more confidence? And do you think that as an attorney that has pushed you towards um being a better attorney, getting better results?
SPEAKER_01So a great question. I think that I work hard um to try not to let my wins or like the titles get too much of me because then it's like I'm chasing validation, like nothing's ever good enough. Um, but what I will say is that being a part of these different organizations, and to your point, the different wins that I'm that I've had in life or the career within the last few years, it's definitely helped my confidence. I think I I don't know if I'll ever not be nervous for anything. Like even this, uh we're cool. I'm like we're friends, and it's still like, oh, let me just make sure I present. Well, I'm just always I'm an overthinker, which is good for my clients, but not so good for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so it's helped my confidence. I think as an attorney, it's probably helped because again, some people they want to see what your legal community thinks of you. Because a lot of times, maybe, you know, someone had a bad experience with you with their representation, and talk gets around quickly. And so I think having again the respect of your legal community helps. It's not the end all be all because again, we're competitors. I mean, I'm only in competition with myself, but we're all pursuing the same thing. We want the same thing. So sometimes that can get a little cloudy and jaded.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I definitely think that it's helped me with my confidence as a person and as an attorney.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's uh funny. I just saw this thing because I remember last time you're here, you're like young, young, young attorney, brand new. And I just saw there's these videos going out now that I'm addicted to Instagram. Uh, the guy says, I've been an attorney for 20 years, you know, I know what I'm doing. And you're looking at him like, you're still working, we have the same degree, and you suck.
SPEAKER_01I actually just had that happen on a case. I won't say his name. Hopefully, he watches this though. Um, so I don't know why, I don't know if it's just a male thing, because it's only happened with men. I've had some weird women interactions, but anytime I get an older man, and let's just say I'm not responding quick enough to them because, you know, God forbid I work for them also, or I'm not doing what they think I should do because I have my own mind and I have to have my own interests for my client. Um, they let me know, I've been doing this for 31 years. I said, wow, I've been living that long. That's amazing. Like, I don't understand that. And I feel like when you have to lead with that, it's just not real confidence. Like you've never, and I'm gonna give you your flowers like you give give me mine, you've never made me feel small. You you've never made anyone feel small. Like you're seasoned, you're successful, not as it's just an attorney, but business owners.
SPEAKER_00You don't know me good enough.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I don't work, I don't work, I don't work for you. People are it is different when you work for someone, but from what I see and from what I know and from what I hear, you're just kind. I don't think if you're truly confident, you shouldn't have to lead with that. And I pray that whenever I get into my 20, 30 year mark, I don't do that to younger attorneys because it's not cool. Yeah, I think that, and I'm grateful for the attorneys I have had on the opposing side that's you know helped me because it's about grace too. Yeah, we all started from somewhere. So let's just say I actually did do something incorrectly. Not that you're entitled to correct me, but you're not entitled to belittle me either. Right. Um, so yeah, I get that a lot. Yeah, even from doctors. I've had a doctor on my own case let me know he's been doing something for 30 years. I'm like, okay, well, if that's the case, then why are why is your position this? Because if you've been doing it this long, why are you like what what's the issue? So it's constant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, tell them things have changed in the last 30 years.
SPEAKER_01No, you know, I just hope I'm never like that. No shade to anyone that's like that, because maybe it's just something people do subconsciously, they don't realize it, but it it's not cool.
SPEAKER_00No, I've had some bad experiences with attorneys. Mostly, mostly in my younger years. Now I don't I just I ignore people who are like that. We just we actually just had an attorney. Um, we have people in our office who are you know relaying messages, negotiating the cases for me. Yeah, and they've got 30 years experience. They've they've worked for State Farm, Liberty Mutual, these big insurance companies. And the opposing counsel said, Hey, are are you like, how are you able to do this? And I'm thinking, what? Like, why are you questioning that? That's not your job. Your job is to settle this case or litigate it, not not um start questioning why Abraham Obadia is not on every phone call with you. It's so bizarre. And I don't know if it's like a bullying tactic or what, but I'm like, you know what, whatever, we'll just file suit. I don't care. Whatever. We don't have to deal with this.
SPEAKER_01And that's something I was gonna I'm I'm gonna ask you a question, if you don't mind. So, with all that you do, like I said, your business owner, that's obviously aside from your firm. Do you find that other attorneys, if even if they're more seasoned than you, kind of like kind of side-eye or maybe try not to take you seriously because you are quote unquote the social attorney and you are big on social media? Have you had that issue yet?
SPEAKER_00Define big on social media. I don't get that many views.
SPEAKER_01It's just you're just because you don't need it. You have all of this, but but you have a presence. You're actually because a lot of seasoned attorneys, I hate to put that, give you that category, but you're getting up there. Um they don't they don't like social media, they don't want to do the cool videos. I love the videos you and Natalie do together. I I feel like I like all of them. Do you feel like that has ever come up with seasoned attorneys as far as how they deal with you um negotiations?
SPEAKER_00That's a good point. I actually am embarrassed to do the videos. I'll be 100% honest with you. Some of them like, oh god, I'm desperate at this point to get cases.
SPEAKER_01But um no, and you shouldn't think like that. Because most most older men, like, well, that's all I've worked with, so I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_00The lead that part out. Most older men throw me in the category. I'm 42.
SPEAKER_01No, not you. Most men that I do know, they have that um idea about, oh, I don't want to look desperate, but I think it's just fun and being relatable. So yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00I agree. I do I do like I do like that it's um relatable. I do like that people feel comfortable messaging you and saying, hey, um, because lawyers are intimidating to a non-lawyer, they're extremely intimidating. They're like, oh, is I'm they're worried about calling me. Like I've had people call me and they're like, Are you gonna charge me? And I'm like, no, why would I charge you to talk to you? Like, yeah, this isn't the 1980s anymore. Um, I do, yeah, you know, I was like, everyone, but um I I do I do enjoy some of the social media stuff for that reason. I like also the educational stuff. Like you do some educational stuff. I like that. Thank you. I think that's helpful. Um, just you know, raising awareness of of certain laws and stuff like that. Um, but you know, social media is everybody's looking at their phones, nobody's looking at billboards, you know. They can spend uh a hundred million dollars a month on billboards, nobody's looking at billboards anymore. Um, everybody's staring at their phone as they drive now, which I mean I look over, I'm like, oh my god, no one's shouldn't do we shouldn't be doing that because we don't do that. I know. I well, I got it on self-drive, so I love my I love my my car. But um, you know, the the the whole perception about social media is here. Um, you know, I see people on social media doing things that I'm like, damn, I'm gonna have to do that.
SPEAKER_01Just because well, I think there's a line too, but definitely showing personality, I think it's a good look. And showing the camaraderie between you and your staff, I think that's good bombs.
SPEAKER_00People think lawyers are uptight, you know. That's they are, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, some lawyers are a lot of lawyers are, and this is just my opinion, don't shoot the messenger or you can, whatever. But I think it's good to have a personality in life outside of what you do for a living. And I think oh, since it is a great achievement. I mean, we put in the work and time and years to become an attorney, but who are you outside of that? Um, so yeah, I think it's good to your point. Attorneys can be, in my opinion, uptight or just judgmental. But it's like again, as I spoke about earlier, most of our clients, I mean, unless it's a tragic case, most of our clients come from a particular socioeconomic class. So do you want to be relatable to get more?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or do you want to appease other attorneys that most likely aren't going to come to you or maybe won't send you a case?
SPEAKER_00So I will tell you, I will tell you that I've gotten some really good feedback from defense attorneys that I guess, you know, as a defense attorney, they're probably like, oh shit, I gotta call this personal injury guy. He's a plaintiff's guy, I'm gonna go low, he's gonna go high, and you know, and I I feel like they've they've reached out to me and said, hey man, I like that video. And I'm thinking, you're a defense attorney. But I, you know, I think I think uh defense attorneys are cool, you know, they're the ones at the end of the day who help us settle the case, like it or not. Um they're the ones who advise their client, hey, you should pay X amount of dollars, which is which is one of the reasons I really respect you for being in all these organizations you're in and being in leadership positions, is because at the end of the day, the number one thing to being a lawyer is not what you know, but it's who you know. And if you're on the board with someone who's a defense attorney and they're gonna say, Hey, we're on this case together, they're gonna get you more money than probably you you would get if they didn't have that connection with you.
SPEAKER_01A thousand percent.
SPEAKER_00Because they're gonna have to sit with you at the next board meeting and be like, oh, Monty's mad at me because I I lowballed her on that case. So, you know, they're uh that I really respect those organizations for that reason is connecting people from two different sides. You know, they connect all people as lawyers, not right plaintiffs or defense sometimes. Um, but I I would say I I've gotten some good feedback from other lawyers on there, which is kind of positive because on social media it could be very negative sometimes. Very, but other lawyers have commented and I'm like, oh, that's cool. It could it could be their social media manager like commenting on my stuff. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, when it's me, it's me.
SPEAKER_00So yes, I'm I'm not even responding to my Instagrams anymore. I put it on this book phone. Uh so don't if you message me, Natalie, you're gonna have to answer for me. Celebrity. I've become so how many how much time do you spend on a day? Do you know?
SPEAKER_01So it's a lot. I actually recently I did like a um mental health week last week. I actually got off social media and it was great. No social media, didn't check anything, barely responded to.
SPEAKER_00You deleted the app? I didn't delete it.
SPEAKER_01I just didn't, I didn't go in.
SPEAKER_00I don't have that willpower.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think it stems from so when I studied for the bar exams, I always I actually deleted the apps to like stay focused. So it's been done. But to your point, like scrolling on your phone, it's just so addicting. You're not even really interested in what you're looking at. It's just it's in your hand and it's there. So I've actually been cutting down. So hopefully I continue it, continue doing that. But yeah, no, to your point, it's just it's too much. And also, it's so much negativity on there. So sometimes I don't even want to see what's on there. Um, so I'm very intentional, even in the mornings. Like um, I do my devotionals, but I just try not to, besides posting for work purposes, not even scroll in the morning, or if I post, not scroll or look into it. Because one, I need to get my life together. So why am I too so in in tune with someone else's life, which is scary total when you're strangers that you never meet in your life, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I've had some words situations, but yeah, I um I woke up just on, I don't know, Wednesday morning, 5 a.m. I my alarm wakes me up. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go hit the gym. Let me just scroll real quick. I did, I but I I yeah, I went to my gym and just did like regular weight stuff. But um, I I started scrolling. The next thing I know, I looked at it's 5 40. I'm like, I just blew 40 minutes first thing in the morning because my thing said, I have a 45 minute timer. It's like, yeah, five minutes left. And I go, Oh my gosh, how's how's this possible? I just went through the whole day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh yeah, it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_01Oh, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00You can set like ask you after, yeah. But it's trash because you could just push the button and get more time.
SPEAKER_01So okay.
SPEAKER_00That's why I put it on this phone and I'm gonna put the password on this phone only and delete it completely from my phone because I my regular phone, otherwise, I'm on it all day. I'm just gonna leave it here in the office. I don't when I'm working, I'm working.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it's when I'm at home with the wife, the kids, he wants to play basketball, and I'm like, ah, just scrolling.
SPEAKER_01I'm like a zombie, you know, and it's you gotta be present.
SPEAKER_00Gotta be present. Yeah, yeah. And so I go through these weird phases. I I used to delete the app and rele download it again and then delete it.
SPEAKER_01I just so what I did do, I like, you know how you can move the apps? I moved it from a hidden folder or whatever. Like all the way like the fourth, whatever. Yeah, it's like you're a celebrity.
SPEAKER_00Listen, uh, celebrities get paid to be on Instagram. I don't get paid anything. I make my money coming in the office and working every single freaking day.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Except next week. I'm excited, I'm going to Egypt. So that should be fun. What do you do to disconnect at the end of the day from work?
SPEAKER_01Um, so I'm starting to not scroll as much on like Instagram, Facebook. I might have a glass of wine. Um I journal. I think that's important for your mental health. The decompressed. If I had a bad day, especially just get it out because being a professional, you have to keep your emotions under control. Um God. My loved ones, sometimes I may do like a happy hour after, especially if it was a hard day. Happy hour.
SPEAKER_00That was me on Monday. I had the worst day.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm sorry, I don't like Mondays in general.
SPEAKER_00I love Mondays. I just that was a that was a tough day. I think it was Monday or it was Tuesday. It was awful. Oh my gosh, it was horrible.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah. And then so maybe if I can't do what I want to do during the work week, like that weekend, I may like go down south or go like do a staycation, get a massage, just different things. Like I'm very intentional, even if it's a small thing of doing something for myself, because you can't pour from an empty cup. So I definitely it's still a process because no matter how much we try, I don't know any lawyer yet that can truly say with 100% that they just leave work at work and don't bring it home. I'm working on it.
SPEAKER_00As a as a pip suit lawyer, I could have said that two weeks ago, three weeks ago. I was having the time of my life. I was going home when I wanted to, work was good, everything's like a well-oiled machine with the pipsuit stuff. And then I decided to help my friend. And then and then I was just like, damn it, why did I agree to this? This is awful. I'm never helping a friend again. You're so funny.
SPEAKER_01What do you do?
SPEAKER_00What do I do?
SPEAKER_01How do you do you even relax? Do you know how to besides traveling?
SPEAKER_00That is a good question. What do I do? Um, I like spending time with my kids.
SPEAKER_01They're like they're funny.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, it can be a pain in the butt too. But um, yeah, last night my son was so pissed. Uh, we took away his PS5 because he wouldn't put his seatbelt on in the car. As a car accident lawyer, I'm looking at my son. I'm like, Do you know how many people I've represented who've gone through the windshield because they didn't wear a seatbelt? Yeah, and he's like, so? And I'm like, Do you want to have your teeth, your ability to use your hands and feet? Like, what's wrong with you? He just wants to, he's in that age where he wants to rebel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so he took away his PS5, and then um uh he's super bad, and he he likes to play basketball, and he's been taking private lessons with this coach, and he's really improved. And I said, All right, beat me at basketball, let's go to three. So we played a three. Of course, I'm at two points, he's at two points. This freaking kid is really good. And And then he just scores like a three-point shot on me at the end. And I'm like, how in the hell did this happen? So yeah. Um, but I do like stuff like that. No phone around, just just hanging out. Like that's how I decompress. It's probably just getting rid of the phone. The phone is like the single because people call you with their problems all day. And look, I love helping people, but I need some me time too. Like, if they call me all the time for their problems, I can't be there.
SPEAKER_01And who's calling for your problems? That's another thing.
SPEAKER_00I have nobody to call from. I got you. I'll call you. Let me ask you this your idea of success has definitely changed from when you first uh were on the podcast. Now you're on the podcast again. What is your new idea for success for you, for Monty Williams? What's your idea for success in five years, 10 years?
SPEAKER_01I think my new idea in general, it's true joy and peace within. Of course, being a younger, I'm still young, a younger attorney back then, you know, you want all these titles and accolades because it's gonna give you, you know, more prestige, more status, more ability to be taken serious. Um, but if you're not happy and if you're not doing it for you, if it's not fulfilling to you, I don't think that's success because you're never happy. Why do you think there's so many millionaires, billionaires, depressed, commit suicide? You can have all the money and the success in the world. What society says is success. But if you're not happy, it's you're gonna literally drive yourself crazy. Um, so that's my definition. In five years, whatever I'm doing, 10 years, whatever I'm doing, hopefully I have a family by then. I'm happy. I'm truly happy and I'm truly focused on the things that matter because we can we all have careers, we all, you know, we're working we don't go to law school to make penny or chump change, you know. But you know, I want to actually have things that are more than just the superficial tangible things. I do want the nice things because I I know in five to ten years I'll, you know, have worked hard to earn it. But if my personal life and within I'm not satisfied, I don't consider that successful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's funny. I I used to like not care about travel or um having the nice things like you talked about. And I was telling my tell my wife, babe, let's just stay at a regular hotel. We don't need to stay at this fancy hotel. I love staying at a fancy hotel now. It makes total sense. Um I love it. But when you're starting out, you're like financially, you're like, yeah, I can afford it, but what about next week or two weeks and it's freaky? But man, let me tell you, the finer things in in life are there for a reason because they're nice. Um, but you know, it's not the end all be all, you gotta be happy. I love what I do for work. I like helping people, I like educating people about their laws, you know, especially with on the pip side, these doctors, they're not lawyers. They went to school to learn how to help somebody, you know, fix somebody, treat somebody. They don't know what they're doing when it comes to um the the law of practicing medicine. I do enjoy that. The problem is they get in trouble and then they need help. And I'm like, man, if you would have spent like five minutes with me a year ago, yeah, we wouldn't be in this situation. So um that's the one thing that sucks about being a lawyer is like you know everything, but they the people the clients don't, and that's why they get in trouble. Yeah, you get one choice difficult client, difficult opposing counsel, you gotta pick.
SPEAKER_01I'll go with difficult client.
SPEAKER_00Difficult client because you can fire them, right?
SPEAKER_01That, but just um I've actually the crazy thing is, so I've had weird situations happen where a client is so difficult, then once the case is resolved, they're so grateful, appreciative. Then I've had clients who are, you know, were so happy along the way, and then once the case is resolved and they have approved for me to settle the case, now they're unhappy. So yeah, I think a difficult client, I'll take a difficult client, especially if it's a really great case. Um, and I can kind of have more control over it because I'm not gonna let their energy um affect me and what I'm doing as an attorney and being their attorney. But a difficult opposing counsel, it could just be because I'm I'm actually dealing with that right now. I just got on a case and she's a woman, so it's so confusing why someone would be like that to another woman, but neither here nor there. Um, to your point, I can't just get rid of them. Or I can't run away because they're being mean, because it's it's life. Like we we're unfortunately everyone isn't as professional or courteous. Yeah. Um and to your point, they have the money. So the nicer wanna get the nicer you are, you like literally like the nicer the adjuster or opposing counsel, the more money. Like hands hands down. Or there are sometimes uh opposing counsel that are difficult in the beginning because they're doing their job, and then towards the end, it becomes more, you know, professional. But yeah, yeah. I'll take a difficult client over opposing counsel. Yeah. Because I have to make sure I keep my professionalism like together, you know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. With the clients, you can always kind of sometimes it's like an education thing. Like if you spend more time educating them and going through, all right, so you want this. Well, if you want this, this is what's gonna happen, this is what it's gonna look like. And and then they realize, oh, I don't want to do that. Let's go with this option. Yeah. So I get that. Because sometimes people are like, well, I want a million dollars. And I'm like, all right, um, well, you know, the people on the billboards that have the million dollars are not, you know, it's from the the waist up. They're paralyzed, they lost a leg, things like this, you know. Not not always, but usually million dollars. Somebody had a surgery or somebody got. Yeah. Are you looking to get licensed in any other states besides where you're currently licensed at?
SPEAKER_01Um, you know what's crazy? I've I have been having these like impulsive thoughts. So I'm probably going to do it because I'm trying to do better in this season of my life with acting on things that are presenting. Like, for example, back to speaking to the chiropractors. That might not have been anything I would have just naturally jumped on because I'm like, ah, 300 people, what if I Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and then you saw the speaker before you and you were like, I could totally do this. I'm better than I'm 10 times better than this person.
SPEAKER_01I don't know who said that, but uh I said that.
SPEAKER_00I said I'll take the hit on that one. Don't worry, that person's probably not even know who went after him. But I, you know, it's it's true though. It's true, right? Like um, you can give really good information, but if you're not able to present it in a way that people want to receive it, if it's not fun, people aren't gonna watch it. You know, that's why people watch YouTube. You know, it's it's it's gotta be enjoyable and relatable. So that's why I think you did so good on that course, and everybody was was um, you know, they were messaging me because I was like, I was like, hey, my friends go in.
SPEAKER_01And I did not want to make you look back too. I was nervous about that. I I pride myself on keeping my face clean and the people I care about and um connected to face clean because like how crazy would that have been?
SPEAKER_00Like, I know you would have been nice to me still, but like I would have been nice, but I wouldn't have put you there if I didn't know you could do it, you know. Um my wife tells me God will not give you something that you can't do, that you can't handle. And I'm like, there you go.
SPEAKER_01So I don't know which states yet. I'm gonna try to look into where I can just wave into, but I really randomly have been thinking about taking on the bar exam, which I never thought I would want to do. So I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to the waving first to do it because why I need to why do I need to take another bar exam? But I don't know, I've just been feeling like getting bored. Like I'm just always trying to learn something or do something different. Yeah, and I think that's what I love so much about being an turning because we literally can go so many different avenues with it. So what about you?
SPEAKER_00Um, I did just apply to a couple new states, uh, Texas and Washington State, and I reopened my Michigan license. Um, so I'm I'm doing those three right now, and then I'm gonna do once I get that thing situated, I'm gonna do like another three. I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking, you know what?
SPEAKER_01Is that for like pit purposes or just in general?
SPEAKER_00No, just in general, just to have my license in different states. I'm I'm just thinking, you know what? If I want to expand, I want to be able to. If I don't want to, so what? I got a license in another state. I do some continuing education and I can apply it. Because Florida as lawyers, we have I think it's like 40 hours every two years. It's a lot of hours.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um, you know, most states don't have continuing education requirements for lawyers, and if they do, usually they're they're very like if you do the Florida ones, you could just apply them there. Like they'll take it. So um so I'm just I'm just looking to expand. I'm looking to have the opportunity to expand if I want to. If it's like, hey, open up in this state, open an office, do this advertising, I'll do it. If I don't want to, I just have the license. That's that's my thought process.
SPEAKER_01Some of my one of my favorite things is stay ready so you don't have to get ready. So I think that's great.
SPEAKER_00Stay ready so you don't read it.
SPEAKER_01Stay ready so you don't have to get ready.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I like that. That's good. So that's smart. That's a nice catchphrase. I like that. Let's put that on there, Dennis. Let's just talk about burnout. I just talked about this earlier with another attorney, and as far as burnout goes, you know, I was just I was telling her, listen, uh, I had this moment, I talked to my friend, and I was like, dude, I feel burnt out. Like I nothing excites me. I'm not depressed, nothing moves the needle, nothing excites me, nothing makes me want to do more. And he he lit he gave me the best advice. Um uh Mike Pike at Lust Leg Pike. He goes, he West Palm, he goes, Hey, you're gonna be fine, just wait it out, keep doing your thing. Eventually, something's gonna spark inside of you, and you're gonna want to do XYZ. And it did in New Year's, it hit me. I'm like, hey, I want to get my license in all these other states, and it kind of just hit me there. And I was like, okay. But there are times where you get like just to the bone as a lawyer, like, I don't want to do this, you know, I don't want to do this anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you do to fight burnout?
SPEAKER_01Just basically so I can speak on past and present. So I think prior to me trying to be more serious about my mental health and not being burnt out, it literally would just take me literally getting sick. That's how I knew I was doing too much, overextending myself. I would literally get sick because I'm pretty much a healthy person working out, eating certain foods, vegetables, greens, whatever. You stay your immune system's pretty great. Um, so in the past, I literally get sick from stress. And so it took takes that moment. Like I remember literally, and this is at the firm I'm at now, so I'm thankful to have you know supporting partners. I was like sick as a dog. Um, wasn't contagious. Um, I myself am asthmatic. So certain things are triggered like sinus and everything. I had just gotten sworn in to the Supreme Court of the United States in DC, like in February. So it's cold.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, come back, end up with a sinus infection. And like I'm just back then, I still am, but without without boundaries back then, a workaholic. So literally it's a one of the partners like just go home. Um now I try to, before I get to that point, or when I feel myself getting that point, I disconnect. So I'm so thankful to have my assistance too, because they've I've actually learned from them uh to take a break. So they reminded me that literally you only are really away from work if you're away at a trip dealing with work. And I'm like, you know what? So, you know, take that mental health day or you know, do that staycation, or take that week off to go travel somewhere. I'm actually trying to get better at planning my vacations ahead of time because again, still tied into the past, I wait until I'm just aggravated and frustrated with everyone and everything. And I'm like, okay, I'm going here. And it's like, why not have that already set so I can always have something to look forward to? So when I do have those moments where I'm tired of everyone and everything, it can push me even further because I'm like, okay, Mani, you have this coming up. Like, you know, just go through the motion. So I try to be more proactive now to stop that. But burnout is real, and it got to a point where I'm like, I'm too young to be feeling this way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I have a tip for you. Uh, what I do is I go once a year, like December, November, like Thanksgiving break, I go in for the following year and I block off a whole week and I put Abe off that whole week every month. I just put one week. I don't go away every month for a week, but it blocks off my calendar so they don't schedule me for stuff that week. So that if I did want to go somewhere, maybe not a full week, but just like three days or two days or overnight, I could because I don't have, you know, as a lawyer, people are booking you for depots and hearings and stuff months and months out. So I'll block it off on my calendar. That way I don't have to worry about something being booked. That's how I was able to do this Egypt trip.
SPEAKER_01I like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just one week, you don't have to go, but the staff thinks that you're gone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Or if you just need a mental health day. I think that's so important because I'm like, it's sad that I'm just now think thinking that's just a thing because I've heard about it. Yeah. I don't know. Mental health day. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Listen, I used to laugh when people told me mental health day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm like, okay. Especially coming from the gen like our parents who were in that generation where they were workaholics and didn't, you know, make excuses, they showed up no matter what.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I'm kind of into that. I haven't taken one officially yet, but I will be. Um, and like I said, luckily my assistants, because they know what I deal with, um, they're like, bro, like just go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Assistants are the best, by the way.
SPEAKER_01I got my nothing like a good assistant because I've had a bad one. And so when you go through bad, it helps you really to appreciate great, actually. They're both great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I uh Janine's been with me like way over 10 years now, and I texted her. I said, Hello, incredible. I need your help on something. I don't I don't text her or call her ever. She just does work and gets it done. And she's like, uh-oh, what does Abe need now? Like she's like, what does this guy want? So I just I forgot. Oh, I needed to file something in federal court. Have you are you in the Southern district? I'm not.
SPEAKER_01I've been thinking about it. I think at one point there was a discussion, but then there's certain attorneys at the firm that are already admitted, so they just deal with it. But I I will do it eventually. Because it's just what is it, just like a form you fill out?
SPEAKER_00Now it's a form. It used to be you have to take a test. Oh, perfect. It was like a hundred question tests, and I failed it. Yeah, now it's so I can just skate in. Okay. There you go. So but I had to file a notice of appearance on that case. And uh I I there was a deadline. Uh oh, yeah, they don't play.
SPEAKER_01I did file, I have filed for like a federal case, but I just wasn't the attorney record. I was helping my managing partner at the time not miss a deadline.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I missed the deadline. But luckily, the judge it was by two days, the judge and opposing counsel agreed. We're in settlement talks. Yeah. The opposing counsel is nice to be.
SPEAKER_01Which is why, you know, with our new Florida rules of civil procedure going in that direction. It's like that.
SPEAKER_00I don't like that. I don't like that. I like state court. You know, you can drag it out for as long as you want. You know, federal court, they're like deadlines. I filed a case in federal court and the judge dismissed it. It was it was uh over an unpaid doctor bill, and the judge dismissed it, said, You don't have discovery ready. And I was like, Well, judge, I'm I'm trying to like figure it out. And he's like, No, I'll dismiss it if you're not. He did not say that. He did, yeah, I did. Yeah. Well, I was I was an attorney for like three years. He seemed like a cool judge. He seemed cool, you know. Federal judges are not state judges. Let me put it that way. State judges, like, I gotta get elected in a couple years. I don't want to piss anybody off. The federal judges are like, no, I'm here for life. This is the law done.
SPEAKER_01Bye. Good to know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't, yeah. So we filed a motion, it was a consent motion to for extension of time, and I was worried that the judge was gonna deny it because I was two days already late, but it's it's fine. It's it's not as terrible as they make it seem. So the last thing before we go, you can have coffee, tea, or an alcoholic beverage with any person, dead or alive, um, famous, not famous, who and why?
SPEAKER_01My dad. Um I knew you were gonna say it. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, it's gonna get you.
SPEAKER_00You you love your dad.
SPEAKER_01I do so. If anyone doesn't, I don't know if I talked about it before, but I did lose my dad um in during COVID while becoming a Florida attorney. Um, so I'm just wish he could be here to see me physically, all that I've accomplished. Because honestly, I was a spoiled brat and daddy's girl as an only child. So like I did nothing wrong in his eyes. Okay, but I wish that I could just sit and talk to him and he can see like the woman I am now. Because he used to tell me things back then and I didn't really appreciate it. So now I understand because my dad was the calmest person, like one of the calmest people I ever met. I myself, I'm feisty like my mother.
SPEAKER_00Um, so your mother's amazing. We love her.
SPEAKER_01She's she is amazing. She comes out with you sometimes. I would I wish that my dad could really see me. I know he's watching down from heaven. I know that he's my wife for all of this. So he wasn't drinking, he saw he drink in his time, but I would have this nice tea that you guys got me with him just to just to see him, even if it was like five minutes. Um, and I bring that up probably because his death anniversary is literally like next week. Crazy and birthday, four days apart. Wow, so it's a lot. So I wish I could just sit with him and talk. Or he just listened to me talk because he wasn't like a talker either.
SPEAKER_00As a father, I can tell you that um I talk to my daughter and she ignores me. She's watching YouTube, she's doing this, she's doing that. I get it though, because I remember now that I have kids, I'm like, I did the same thing, so I totally forgive them. And then even my son will drive me crazy doing something that I used to, you know, he calls me like, he's like, You're stupid, you're stupid, you're stupid. And I'm like, remembering that I used to do that to my mother. And I would call my mom, I'll text my mom, be like, mom, I am so sorry for what I said to you when I was a kid. It was like little kids are just like, they're mean, they're dismissive, and stuff like that. But I think as a parent, you realize like, I just have that's how you know I was as a kid, I'm sure, you know, your dad, when he was a kid, he did the same things, you know. So totally get it.
SPEAKER_01I'll appreciate it though. We always appreciate everything later on. So they're gonna be happy, they're gonna be thriving because they have such a present father. So it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_00I just tell my kids, I'm like, I just hope that you guys grow up to be anything successful. You don't have to be a doctor or a lawyer, uh-huh. But I just want you to be a good person and lead a good life, and that's it. And then they're like, Can I get the remote control, Dad? I want to watch this stupid YouTube show. And I'm like, oh, whatever, man. There you go. So I'm sure your father would be extremely proud of who you've become and where you are right now. So thank you. If anybody wants to get a hold of you, the incredible Imani Williams, my good friend, how do they do it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're gonna end on a lighter note. So I would love to connect with anyone interested. Um, and we'll put the handles on. So my Instagram is Imani M. Williams ESQ. I'm also on Facebook, and it's just Imani M. Williams. Not sure if you guys want to connect on LinkedIn, but that's also Imani M. Williams ESQ, I believe. I'm on TikTok, Imani Martina ESQ. That's my middle name. And I want to get more active on YouTube, but I've been slacking, but it's Imani M. Williams ESQ as well. And should anyone have any questions or concerns, my number is 561-267-0226.
SPEAKER_00Let's go. Another successful podcast. I love it. Thank you for being here. You're the only person I've done two podcasts with, and I love that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I love that too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so let's do it. So cool. Thank you. Let's get this money. Yeah.