The Cost of Chasing Your Dream | Adam Knowles

Everyone talks about chasing the dream, but not enough people talk about what it can cost you along the way.

In this episode, Adam shares what it truly takes to build a career in the music industry. Through his experience working as a tour manager for artists like Nate Smith, Zach John King, and many more, he opens up about the sacrifices, pressure, uncertainty, and major life decisions that happen behind the scenes.

We talk about the reality of life on the road, taking risks on yourself, building relationships in the industry, and staying committed to the dream even when the path does not feel clear.

Because chasing your dream requires more than talent. It requires patience, discipline, sacrifice, and the willingness to keep going when there is no guarantee it will all work out.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Man, you'll hear it in Nashville. It's like, are they a good hang? I was willing to go sleep in my car, and I was two days before I was gonna be out of my apartment. I was gonna live in my car, and the address was a half a mile up from the Barnes and Noble that I used to sit at every day. Once you callous that, like whatever that is, there's no going back. There's no going back.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Hey, welcome back to the Creatively Connected podcast. I'm your host, Chris Ribby, and today we are with a very special guest, a world travel traveler, an optimist, a father, tour manager, and all-around creative. And my friend, ladies and gentlemen, Adam Knowles. How you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Yo, thanks for having me, bro.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

And I'm glad we uh glad we got to sit down and do this. We uh me and Adam haven't really known each other for that long, but we've known of each other for a little while, and uh we sat down probably four or five months ago and had coffee and chatted for like an hour and a half or so, two hours. And I was thinking the other day, what better person to have on the podcast than someone I had an amazing conversation with in a in a coffee shop here in downtown Nashville? So we got him on the podcast today, Adam. What does alignment mean to you? You know, it's a word we hear all the time on online and people throw it around, but what does alignment actually mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, man. Well, first off, thanks for having me, bro. Absolutely. I saw your uh Instagram. I know we'd met a couple times on tour, but I saw your Instagram and I was like, man, this guy is I I like where his headset, I like his mindset, he's hustling hard, and I'm like, I gotta grab a copy of this dude. And sure enough, that's what we did. And it was like, we I think we planned to be there for like 30 minutes. We're there for like an hour and a half. Yeah, so that's great. So I'm happy to bring it here. Absolutely for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

I'm glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Um, alignment, bro. Um, I think I I started a brand and like or a faceless Instagram, and I called it Align Daily Club, as you know about. Um, but it really aligned to me is just like surrounding yourself with the people that are doing what you want to do. And it's like getting a get in a line with what you want, with the people that are doing what you want. Whether it's fitness, whether it's working in music, working in fashion, uh, whatever it is you want to do, you get in line with those people and and you just start following and and set it set your life up to align with your goals of what it is you want to be. If you want to be, you want to be a dad, you want to be a family person, get it hang around people are are are family people. You want to be, you want to get in shape, get around people that are in shape, you know? Um and just stay away from the people that aren't doing what you want to do, and just people that you outgrow. So so yeah, it's a it's a buzzword, but I do think it's set your goals and then get in line with the people that are doing what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah. If someone's feeling lost right now and they know that they're they're built for more, they're just not very aligned right now with where that they think they that they should be headed. What advice would you give to someone that just needs to get the ball rolling universally?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Universally. Uh I mean I've I remember when I moved to LA back in, I was like 25 years old, and there just didn't have a lot of things going in music, and I I felt that way. It was it was like, what am I what do I need to do? So I just started organizing my day. I'd I'd I'd get up early, I'd go to the gym, I'd I'd get home, I'd need a breakfast, and I'd just go down to a Barnes and Noble and I'd just read books. Yeah, and I just listen to YouTube videos and find out like study the people that are doing what you want to do, and just kind of trust the process in a way it's like as long as you're putting practicing good daily habits, you'll get yourself to where you need to go and just you'll start building some luck. Yeah, and every and and eventually things will change. There's gonna be weeks where I feel like nothing's happening, still feel that at my age and what I'm doing, and then all of a sudden there's this week, and it's just like all kinds of winds, and it's like get up early. The the winds are going outside, getting fresh air, going for a walk, working out, um, taking care of myself, um, just doing writing, journaling, still keeping you know, goals in front of me and just sticking to those regardless of how I feel.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, you know. I think someone, and I know that it's a fact because I myself have experienced it, but I've been, you know, like you mentioned a second ago, very consistent and chasing stuff and and in a pursuit of success, but I think someone can be, um, I'm interested to hear your take on it. I think someone can be on the pursuit of that and achieving success, but still not be aligned with who they are as a person. You know, I I think many of yours, and this is just coming from personal experience, but I was receiving success and achieving things, but I myself wasn't aligned. Going back to you mentioned a routine and going to the gym, you know, there's two different realms there. It's yes, I'm achieving and being successful in my work, but I'm not necessarily aligned with my my health and fitness and my personal life. So do you think someone can be achieving success and still not be aligned with who they are as a person aside from their work?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah, absolutely. I think you see it a lot in maybe the corporate world where people, you know, you can be successful at your job, but you're kind of letting other areas of your life kind of you're not putting enough attention in those. It's like, and there's seasons where the work-life balance of I'm still unsure of how I really feel about that because I don't think you can keep every bucket at 25% and still be happy in all areas. There's gonna be seasons where work requires a little bit more attention and then relationship and then your health and fitness. And I think the real challenge for me is just finding a way to make sure I'm kind of giving attention to all of it. And and that's one, just like setting up a routine every day, yeah and and putting a schedule together. It's like letting no time in your day not have some kind of purpose. Give it attention to something because you're more apt to do it if you're like, all right, I wrote down from 10 to 11, I will go for a walk, call my mom, connect with my mom. All right, from 12 to 2, this is the time where I, you know, focus on work and emails and researching what it is I want to be doing or put time, and it's just a little bit of just focus on those things. And I think um after a while you can kind of balance it out.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

But yeah, yeah, allotting time to specific things throughout your day, other than just okay, I gotta do work in this time. You know, if you really plan it out, um, and it's kind of sounds like time blocking, essentially. Is that kind of what you do? You time block. Do you uh do you follow Rob Deerdek at all? I do, yeah. Yeah, so you're familiar with his um, I can't think of it off the top of my head, his new app, uh Existence Io.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I've seen him on Instagram, but I haven't.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah, so it's some like he's he's I've been a Rob Deerdeck fan since he was in Fantasy Factory, you know, doing doing that show. Um, but he it's some new app he's developed, and I'm pretty sure it's available now. I don't know, I know they were rolling it out for the longest time, but it's it really just tracks your time and it's it's kind of like a a calendar to-do list type of thing, but you input everything and it and it tracks the analytics of it and and gives you statistics about where your time is being spent, and and you rate like how you're feeling on certain uh on each day, and then it like categorizes everything so you really get like a broad view of how you're spending your time and how you feel doing certain time. I mean it goes all the way down to like your driving and how how long you're spending driving. It tracks it on like a weekly and monthly basis. I don't know. I haven't I haven't personally dove into it, but I see him always post about it, so I figured it might be something you you might be interested in. Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. I try to keep a tight schedule. I use Notion for a lot of my planning. And you know, some days I'll map out every single 30-minute block, and then some days it's kind of spaced out, but I think getting some organization in in your routine and and creating a routine can can really help you achieve what it is you're after, you know, and not just kind of being all over the place, especially if you're an entrepreneur and there's no set schedule and no one telling you what to do. It's kind of like you have to be you have to be organized with that, or you'll just be a that's discombobulated mess.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah, that's that discipline, that's where it comes into play. Yeah, but yeah, Rob Deerdek to speak on that. I when I lived in LA, I worked on um Ridiculousness, his show. And the cool thing about that show is that we filmed in like Van Nuys, California, and we started at nine o'clock. He did two episodes every day. We were out of there by 11 o'clock. That's 11:30. And he was the only we I worked on Wildin' Out or The Voice, Jimmy Kimmel. Um, he was the most structured like host I've ever seen. You could see it even though he showed up, he was like, All right, let's get to work. Yeah, there was no fluff. There was just like he came in, he was ready to shoot, he was dressed, and he he did we did two episodes, and then we and then we left. A lot of times, as you'll hear rumors, you'll sit on set for hours. Yeah. Uh, not with him. It was consistent every day when he got 9 to 11. He got there, he's ready to work. We had to be ready. And it was like, and you could see it. So it makes sense to me. He has he's disciplined. Yeah. And that's cool. It was cool to see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Well, tell talk a little bit about your role with that. What what were you doing on set and in that space?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Um, I when I first moved to California, I had no connections. I had found a spot, grew up in Maine, found a spot on Craigslist, and I FaceTimed the people, and sure enough, we're gonna take it over in like three months. I drove across the country, got to the got to the um the apartment, they hadn't fully moved out, they had had a cat, the place was kind of a mess. I had just drove for six days. So I was it was a whole thing. And uh so I got a hotel that night, and the lady that I was taking it over from, she was she knew one person in town. She knew I wanted to work at music. She's like, hey, I can connect you with this guy, and his name's Ben Dukes. Shout out to Ben Dukes. Um, she's like, I'll connect you in an email. And sure enough, so he he got an email or got an interview with him. Um, and basically he he was running a company called One IOTA, it's a fan agency, and they handle all the tickets for a lot of the big shows in in uh LA. And sure enough, had the interview. First, didn't know I showed up in a suit, like I like professional. Yeah, like sure. They were so laid back, it's like working in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Like, if I should like if I showed up with a suit today, you'd probably be like, that's cool, man, but fired.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

It's like, hey man, change that. Yeah, um, just a little. I I showed up a little too corporate, and I was like, Man, this I don't know what's gonna happen. But he called me back a week later, said, Hey, be at the voice next Monday. Um, that was my first job in LA. So I was like, that was like, all right, it's proof that I'm supposed to be here. Yeah, well, I did that for a bit, and then they also were working on ridiculousness. So we were basically handling um tickets. So fans would go to the website and they'd submit, they'd make a profile, submit tickets to go to the show, and you kind of pick, you know, fans based on you know if they lived in town or whatnot, the demographic that you need for the show. I think it was like a hundred people in the audience. So then we would just like give them a call time, have them process them through, put them in the studio, and and sure enough. And the cool thing about that, dude, is that that's the like on that show I met Kobe Bryant. And Kobe's my huge like he was the reason I moved to LA. He was like, he's such an idol with his his like his just his mindset and the way he approached the game. But yeah, he did that show and got to shake his hand and say thank you. And it was just in passing, but the fact that I got to be in a room with Kobe, I was like, it's pretty wild how life works out.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

But yeah, wow. RIP to Kobe and what a cool, cool moment, cool experience, and it's like it it just goes to show you sometimes just a change of location. Like you you got out there and that was your first opportunity, and that that's enough. It that itself didn't change your life or change the trajectory of it, but I'm sure that gave a lot of motivation. It was like, okay, I'm on the right track if I'm getting opportunity, whether it's you know, being the videographer for the show or helping sell tickets, or maybe you're not even there, you're running social media, you know. It's like it's uh it's a um token of gratitude or or just reminder that you're headed in the right direction. So that's that's sick. So you spent some time out in out in LA and then made your way back to Nashville. Um tell, you know, for the people that aren't familiar with you, you know, you you work in the music industry and you're doing tour manager tour managing currently and have been doing that. Um just give a little bit of backstory on kind of your into the music industry and and your what your job really is as a tour manager.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, I um to kind of go back, I grew up in Maine and I went to school for marketing. Um and in 2000 and I got a degree in marketing. In 2014, I decided um I wanted to work in music, but I didn't, there was nothing in Maine, and I was like, if I'm gonna make this happen, I need to I need to really go surround myself, kind of back to getting in a line with what you want to do. How do I put myself around people who are working in music and give myself the best shot at this? I was 24 at the time. Um so I I saved up $3,000. I was working at it, I was selling cell phones, making commission at $3,000, which was probably the most I'd ever had at any point in my life. Um and I packed up my car and told myself in three months I'm moving to LA. It was a girl that I was dating at the time, and uh yeah, we had a little going away party, and I just found hotels all across America that would just kind of like drive six to eight hours and did that, got to LA, um and just started applying for jobs, and it was like a crazy shock to be honest, to be out there. I mean, things are expensive, it's all new. I don't know anybody. I didn't have anyone I could just go like sit with and have dinner at nighttime. Like it was just like me and the girl at the time, and um yeah, it was like I got that job on the voice. That was my first job, but it was so part-time that I still had to find other gigs. Um so I was waiting tables. Um and then after six months, the girl I was dating, she was like, I don't want to live here anymore, and she decided to move back. And it was heartbreaking for me, one because she left, I was all alone, everything was expensive, I didn't know how I was gonna make it all work. Um But I told my my family wanted me to move back and say, Hey, just get your feet under you and then go back out. And I said, if I leave now, I'll never come back. I was like, I gotta figure this out. So I was willing to go. I told myself, I I made it, you know, I signed a contract with myself and it said, hey man, if you're gonna make this work, this is the time. This is either fight or flight. You either stick it out and see what happens, or you go home and you play like it's gonna be your life for forever. I knew what I could go back to. I knew what that life was gonna be like, and it I knew I didn't want it. Um so sure enough, I just um started working like crazy and networking, and sleeping my car, and I was two days before I was gonna be out of my apartment, and someone else had taken it over, and I was gonna live in my car, and I was working at Dodger Stadium. I was a concession supervisor, it's crazy, but I was at all the Dodger games. Um but I was basically checking in on all the concessions to making sure they had everything they need, and it was a tough job because it was far away from music, but it was cool because I was I felt like I was part of something and it paid well. Yeah. Um I talked to one of the guys there and he's like, I think I know somebody that has a house in Burbank. Um she had three daughters and a son. The three daughters move out, they have empty rooms, sometimes they rent them out. And kid you not, bro. This he connected me with the lady. I went and met with her and her son, and they're sweethearts, and she told me the address, and the address was a half a mile up from the Barnes and Noble that I used to sit at every day in Burbank. I would drive around that little town, um, I'd read books, journal, and drive around and just be like, man, I'd love to live up here someday. She was half a mile up the up the street on all of Av, and she had a pool, she had a she had two empty rooms, one had a bathroom connected to it, and she's like she rented it off to me for 600 bucks. That's insane. It would dude, it was the it was the crazy. I was two two days away from just like I was gonna go sleep in my car. I already knew where I was gonna sleep, but I was like, I'll figure this out, I'll save the money, and it just it's crazy. But that's just like those little signs of just like have you read the book The Alchemist? Oh, the audiobook, yes, yes, yeah. See that like Santiago just has this, and you just put yourself out there and it's crazy. The world will, you know, it'll reward you for going out and trying some stuff. And when you think you're at your darkest, it's like it shows up and it's like you're not alone. Yeah, like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

It it sounds like you, you know, you you put yourself literally in the neighborhood and and and I was listening to a podcast the other day, and it was like, don't just think about what it would be like to to be in the Ferrari or be in the mansion, like go drive to that neighborhood and or or rent a Ferrari for the day and drive it around, drive it to the neighborhood, you know. I'm sure you you probably weren't in a Ferrari at the time, but you went to to the specific neighborhood and you were reading in there and you were you were alchemizing that energy, and then a half mile down the road, uh, you know, a house opened up. So that's uh that's such a cool story. To someone that's you know sitting on talent and skills right now and kind of in the same boat that you were, maybe you know, needing a change in their life or a move and not knowing, you know, what's coming next, but still putting themselves out every single day and putting in the reps. What advice would you give to someone that's sitting in that position?

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Uh honestly, I think just go tell people what it is you want to do, go take coffee meetings and just put out there what it is you want to do, and that's that's the best way to attract the people give give people an opportunity to help you. Yeah, like I didn't do this by myself. Like I I the more I talk to people and tell them like, hey, you know, like my next step right now is is starting a management company. Like that's that's where my goal is, that's where my head's going, that's where the energy is gonna be. Um but you gotta start talking about what you want to do because it gives other people a chance to say, hey, I know this I know you want to get into this, like this person's looking and just gives them a chance to help you. Give people an opportunity because it's it's really just um you can't do it alone. And um you gotta put it out there.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

People need to know what it is you want to do, whatever it is you want to do, yeah. Put it out there into the world, whether it's in-person networking or social media, you have to let people know what it is that you do, what you're building, what service you offer, what book you're writing, what project you're working on. You have to put it out into the world if you want people to even know it exists. And I think there's so many talented creatives that are walking around this earth right now, sitting on, you know, the the next big project that just aren't putting things out into the world, and no one will ever know it exists, and there's people with way less talent that are alchemizing that in a sense and and making it known that they're on pursuit of this and that are gonna get it just because they're putting in reps every single day.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

So um waiting for it to be perfect, yeah. Like people just think it has to be a certain way. But the people that we're following or we're watching, or they're there are idols, like they had to start with nothing at some point, too.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

And that's Steve Jobs didn't have a perfect iPhone or a perfect uh MacBook made in his parents' garage back in the day, you know. It was very rough around the edges and not perfect whatsoever. But you know, now look, we're recording this podcast on and one of our cameras is you know, on, and it's it's uh it's you you have to start, yeah, and and you can't be perfect. I know I when I first started putting videos out circa 2018, you know, and they were far from perfect. And I didn't I wasn't even like I wasn't even good enough to consider that perfect, but at the time, you know, that it had to be perfect in my eyes, and I I had to get over that hump and just realize like, okay, I just gotta start putting stuff out. Like, if I tried to perfect perfect every single thing about this video for so long, then it's just gonna pass you by. The moment will pass you by, and I I struggle with that. Like, and tour videographers might and photographers might understand this. It's like, and you you will get it too. The shows come so fast, you know. You do one show on Thursday, and then it's already the next show Friday, Saturday, and then the next weekend's here before you know it. Like, if you tried to make that video too perfect, that recap video for my instance, the next weekend will be here before you know it. That moment's already gone. People don't even want to see it, you know. The people that were there have already gone back to work, they're already so far mentally removed from the moment. So it's like uh just get things out there, put things out and and And see where it takes you, you know. My most viral video, I've spent hundreds of hours creating content for myself, for my clients. My most viral video that's performed the best on social media, 14 million views. It took me maybe five minutes to edit, and it was shot on a 360 camera. And I've spent thousands of dollars on all this expensive equipment and you know, and spent hundreds of hours editing, and the one that performed the best, that people resonated with the most was the one that took the least amount of time. You know, it's like it my least perfect video is the one that performed the best. It's just like prime example. Put stuff out there, see what sticks, and rinse and repeat, whatever it is. Video, a song, uh, you know, a book. Um, just put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah. You know how I knew you were gonna be successful? How's that? It's just you weren't afraid to put yourself out there. All your videos, like you're putting yourself out there, and that's that's what's that that's that's the gold. That's once people figure out, you just have to put yourself out there, whether it's a song, whether it's videos, whether whatever it might be, a book, a poems, whatever. Someone who just is not afraid, they're scared, but they do it anyway, kind of thing. Um that's when I know like they've they've they've crossed that threshold where they don't care what people think, yeah, they put it out there, they are going to be unstoppable. Because once you callous that, like, whatever that is, there's no going back. There's no going back. You're like, okay, I don't care what y'all think. Here's my video of me doing this. Hey guys, I wrote this song today. Let me know what you think. You do a couple of those, and you're like, oh wait, I didn't get any views. Screw it. I'm just gonna put out more. Like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Still breathing, still above ground, still breathing, you know, and and look around. Is it do you want to be these other people that are afraid to do stuff? Like, you don't want to live, you can't speak that though those quotes and not actually live up to it. Yeah. So it's like it also puts the pressure on you. It's like, hey man, if I if I'm gonna be motivational, it's like I've got to do what I say, yeah, and I've got to just not be afraid to do these things.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

So yeah, well, I appreciate that, and and I'd have to agree. It's like you you said callous, and that that was the perfect word to describe it. It so many people are scared of what others might say about their project or their special talent that they think special that they might believe the rest of the world would think is stupid, you know. And it's once you get past that threshold of embarrassment or fear of judgment, there really is no going back. I'll post a video today and it might go viral. Or I might post a video today and it gets less than a thousand views and and ten likes. Sure, I want to see it go viral, but mentally I don't care because I'm removed from that. You know, you have you have to detach. It goes back to detaching from the outcome. And I think that that's uh I don't know, it's been huge for me and been a reason that I've seen success and had you know traction built up online to attract clients to me is because I just truthfully don't care if if something performs or not. And I know if you put the reps in each day, the bad, you know, the ones that don't perform or the ones that aren't successful, the projects that people might think are stupid, it doesn't matter because if you do it every single day, the the ones that win will outweigh that, and yeah, people will memory by by your wins, hopefully, and not by your losses. So what version of yourself did you have to let go of in order to become who you are today?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Um I think that scared version, the scared the the atom that I used to be shy. I my my parents will tell me all the time they never thought I'd be the one to move to uh to California for sure and to put myself out there. Um I was afraid as a kid to even talk to my brother and sister at school. Really? Yeah, I was just that shy kid. I was afraid to talk in front of a class, all those things. And and granted, I'm not the best at it. There's always pro improvements that I'm working on, but um but yeah, just just going back to like not being afraid, you gotta reach a point where you you can't be afraid of what other people think. Everyone's out here trying to figure it out, no one really knows, you know. Um, but it keeps me humble too, in a way of like we're all just trying things, and the biggest thing as a TM is like you get as much information about whatever you're doing and then make a decision on the routing or how we should handle a show or a load-in or or whatever it might be, a fly day from bossing, like whatever it might be, you just get all the information and you just make the best decision you have or that you can, and you kind of live with it. And and getting better at just kind of trusting yourself to make good decisions. Um but yeah, getting getting over that being scared to make some people don't want to make decisions, yeah. They want to be told what to do, which is which is fine. Yeah, it's not for everyone because when as a TM you're making decisions, and if it doesn't go well, it's it's on me. I have to live with it. I have to answer to it to manage. Yeah, you really do. So it's like, but I'm okay with that. I'm I'm I feel like I'm happy to take that pressure if it if it if someone has to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Yeah, and a lot of people wouldn't or can't take that pressure. You you said some people like need to be, and not even that they like to be told to they need to be told what to do and directed, hey, go here, do this for the this amount of time. And it's uh not everyone is wired to to handle that that kind of pressure. And it's uh you really see it on the road, and especially in in your job, you know. When I first started uh getting started touring, not that I would give the tour managers hard time, like my first tour manager, he was an older guy, he'd been in it for I mean, he'd toured with Sum 41, Metallica, like all these just legend legendary bands. So he he'd been around the block. And uh, but I've just me and him hit it off. We were really close, but I would always give him a hard time just to kind of lighten the mood because I knew he was always under so much pressure and stress, and I quickly learned, like, okay, maybe maybe just read the room a little bit more in depth and know when it's time to crack a joke. You know, there's always the that guy in in a tour or just around that tries to lighten the mood, but but you gotta know. But tour managing, man, y'all y'all face a lot of a lot of challenges to your day. Yeah, it's uh it's a hard job. For someone listening right now that that's trying to get into the music industry and maybe they're thinking about tour managing. Um, what would be the best job description you would you could you could give them on a tour managing role?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Um trying to think of the best word to describe it would be How many hats can you wear? Yeah, you you're definitely um you're you're responsible for for a lot, and it's not some people will call it babysitting. Yeah. Um in a in a way it is because you have to kind of be looking after everybody. Um babysitting doesn't mean babies, but it means you're kinda you just you're there to make sure one you everyone can gets to the show and you can do what you're supposed to book to do, um but also you're taking care of all the people to make sure um and like everyone's set up for success. So whether it's you know, the routing and the hotels and the vehicles, it's um yeah, I don't know if this is the best answer, but no wrong answer. What the wrong wrong answer. But yeah, and if I was to to my younger self, like I always wanted to do this. When I worked at l for Live Nation in LA, I was working at a venue as a show manager, and all I wanted to do was get on the road. And I just want to know what it felt like to go out and do something like that. It felt like a really cool thing to do. Um and I s and I still love it, man. I I love being out there and kind of like you're essentially making making everyone's dreams come true. Yeah. You know, you're on the road, you want to make give this like have the best experience for everybody. You want the tour, you want the opener to feel good, you want their your artist to feel good, you want the band and crew to be like, this is a really good tour. Despite how much, despite the budget you have for the shows, if you're in a club, a theater, whatever, or arena, whatever it might be, you just you just want to set everyone up for success, and you just want to just make make sure everyone's like has the best chance of having a good time.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah. Make it a good tour, because like you said a minute ago, it it falls back on you. Yeah, and that and if it's not your fault, you know, oh, let's blame the tour, manager. He's the one in charge.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

The culture is like a TM is always like I made sure that the culture, the TM kind of creates the culture of the camp. Like the artist will too. Absolutely. If the artist is, you know, they they have their preferences, but a lot of time the artists aren't interacting as much with the band and crew or handling the day-to-day nuances, you know, they're handling their own things, and you're just making sure you want to set up a culture of like everyone's having fun, they're looking forward to every weekend so that people enjoy being out with y'all. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

For someone that's um trying to break into the music industry and maybe more specifically become a tour manager and they have no prior connections. What advice would you give to them to get started in this?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Um, first thing I would do is probably move to Nashville. Your best channel. I think there's the best thing I lived in LA and I tried to get into music. Um there, isn't it? Very different. From what I've heard. I had interviews with Warner, with Capital, with with publishing companies, and I couldn't get past the first round. Yeah. Meanwhile, I was working in television and working for Live Nation, I just couldn't seem to to get anyone to give me a shot, you know? Um and and I don't look at that, I use that as fuel. I think it was, I'm glad it didn't happen because I wouldn't have made it to Nashville. But in 2019, I decided, you know, I really want to work in music. I had some songwriter friends that lived in Nashville, and they were like, dude, you gotta come here and we'll set it, we'll we'll connect you with some people, and this is where you'll be able to get on the road and start managing artists. Um and sure enough, I moved here and it just the whole the culture was different. It's like you meet people, they want to know what you want to do, and then it seems like they're through the grapevine, like people will find you a job. They're more willing to kind of put your name in a hat and say, hey, this guy's got a good work ethic, give him a shot. Yeah, people are touring, like there's buses and vans leaving here every day. Right now, like there's someone I'm leaving tonight. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like there's there's someone that would hire someone just to come out and help carry boxes, yeah, or just move some gear around, you know what I mean? You may have to work for free for a little bit, and I'm not against that. You've got to go out there and and um and prove your worth a little bit, but then but yeah, it's it's just gotta be here. You gotta be you gotta be where the where it's happening. There's a quote I live by, it says, uh, it's like uh hang around the barber shop long enough, you're bound to get your hair cut. And that's what it is. You gotta go be around the people that are doing it, give yourself the best shot. Just like I I DM our artists all the time and they're they're writing songs, they're like, Yeah, I want to come to Nashville and do all this stuff. It's like, well, dude, like if you're not on social media all the time, you better be here, yeah, connecting with people, writing with people, because the biggest opportunity be doing both.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah, it's it's uh yeah, your your proximity to what it is you want does play a role in it, you know. It's a um you can't be in the mix if you're not around the mix, you know. So it's uh how much of a career in touring is built through who knows your name when a position opens up.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Um yeah, I think it would come down to if if they know you're with somebody and you're happy, I don't think your name will pop up as often as if you're kind of a freelance guy. Sure. In the country world, uh there there's a lot of there's there is moving around. Um but I I do feel like it's there's a a lot of teams are loyal to like their band and their TMs. Like if you st I think everyone's goal is to kind of be with someone and kind of rock with them. Rock with them. Yeah. I mean that's the in a perfect world, that's where I like that's would be my role.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Job security, no, it's gonna be consistent or somewhat consistent.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

But as but as teams change, as artists kind of change and and get older and and want to do different things, like I think everyone, I've always said this with Nate's team, it's like any team I've worked for, actually, it's like you you find out what motivates your everyone on the team. You have check-ins every month to say, hey, how are things going? What's working well, what what are your goals for this year? And I'd sent that out when I worked with Nate Smith. I sent it to his band and crew. It's like, what are your guys' goals? Because some everyone's goals are different on the road. And if you don't know what they are, then you can't, then you might hit us uh a point in the in the year where people aren't happy. But some want to just want time off with their family. Yeah, some want more money, some want an opportunity to to kind of write with the artist and get a cut on the record. Sure. Um, so you just you check in and say, What's your goals? And and you just that's the best way to figure out like how to keep people happy, but also um just create a good culture in the camp.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah, you know. I think that goes, you know, along with just being a good leader and and communication, you know, checking in. You said you might be in the middle of the year and everyone's just kind of burnt out, and it's like, okay, everyone could be pissed off and everyone's kind of wondering why everyone's pissed off. You you know you're pissed off, but uh a simple check-in, simple communication, whether it's in touring or just in in any realm, really, just I don't know. I I think as a society we lack communicating. You know, I can't speak for every role and every person, you know, on earth, but I just feel like if we communicated more in relationships and in our work, it we would have a better understanding of where everybody's at because everyone has different goals. Just because there's uh an office building, you know, a corporate office building downtown Nashville filled with people, it doesn't mean everyone's there for the same reason. Some are trying to support their family, some's trying to climb the corporate ladder, some's just trying to pay their rent this month. So um just being able to understand people, I think that just puts us in a a better spot all around as human beings, is communicating and understanding where someone's at, you know. And I guess it goes uh along the lines of having empathy for other people too, you know, being able to uh feel and understand where they're coming from. It can can really go a long way. Um touch on some of the artists, you know, that you've gotten the opportunities to work for. I I know I'm aware of a couple of them. I'm sure there's some that that I'm not aware of. So just tell us a little bit about some of the opportunities you've had.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah, I I started in 2022 with Ryan Hurd. Shout out to Ryan. He gave me my first shot on the road. Um, he actually hired me to be his guitar tech, and funny enough, I do not play guitar at all. I know how to tune a guitar, and I learned how to string a guitar. Um but not musically gifted with it.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Nope.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Nope. I had Teddy, um, was always checking the guitars during line checks and stuff. So um, but he gave me the shot and with the intention of like, hey, you're gonna learn from my TM. He knew I wanted to be be a TM. So um John Williams, uh mentor of mine, shout out to John, love that dude. He um he taught me everything. He he showed me how the road ran, and also for him, like I was coming in green to the road, just having like venue experience. Um but I just soaked up everything he was doing. So I was at the on that tour, I was guitar tech, I was helping with VIP. I was like a like a backline tech on the stage, setting up lights, cables, unloading the trailer, um, loading in the merch. Um we had a bus, thankfully, that I wasn't having to drive on that. Um you really were made to be a tour manager, yeah. I was doing all of it, you know, and and I didn't mind it. I was exhausted by the one time I got home, but I was just so thankful that for that opportunity to be out there. Um so yeah, I started with Ryan, and then you know, John was going out to help with Maren on her tour. So Ryan came to me and was like, hey, you like, do you want to tour manage me? And I was like, wow, bro. I was like, I've only been on the road with him for five months. But he the biggest compliment he ever gave me was like, he told me I could do this at the highest level. And for someone who's worked so hard to get to the road and to have someone like Ryan, a legend around here, yeah, to tell you it's like you could do this at the highest level, and I was like, but I just started, he's like, Yeah, but you've got it. And for him to recognize that's all you needed to do. Yeah, it's all I'm like, whoa. So after that, he he was coming off the road to to mainly write. He connected me with Ward Gunther with uh Whiskey Jam. And Ward was having he was had three artists or five artists, if you count the Canadian ones as well, um, out on the old Dominion tour. So I was with we had Cassie Ashton, Grayland James, uh I think it's Sean Austin. Hope I don't get that wrong. Or Austin Sean. Austin Sean. Austin Sean, yeah. He's a good dude, and Stephen Lee Olsen.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

That's just the trouble you get with having two first names.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Because there's a producer, uh, Sean Austin as well. So um, and then Frank Ray. So I was out with them for for three or four months, and then Ryan actually called me when I was out on the road with with the whiskey jam team, and he's like, Hey, I just met this guy, Nate Smith. He's got a huge song on the radio, he has like a huge career ahead of him. He's like, I know I wanted you to work with Ward. He's like, You need to take take this job. So I said, Okay, connect me. Um meanwhile, I just got I'd had a call that day with Chief and Simon at the core, which is funny. And uh I got back to town, I met with Nate, we hit it off, and all things were good with with Ward, and I moved over and I was with Nate for um about three and a half years. And right before right before I went with Nate, there was some downtime. I went out with a guy named Knox, he's kind of like uh uh alternative pop guy. He's great, kind of like in the Ban Camino realm. I went went out with him for a couple weeks, and then I filled in for uh Meg with uh Laney Wilson for a weekend, which was really cool to see it at that level. What a great team that is. Um yeah, and then and then since then I've been out with uh Hudson Westbrook. I filled in for his TM this year and currently with Zach John King.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

So really really uh good portfolio, strong portfolio.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

I'm so blessed, man. It's it's crazy. It's it's really is like you you meet these, you man, you have you you love music so much, and then you get to the town, and then you like there's so many opportunities, and when you look back sometimes, you're like, wow, it's cool I've got to do all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

It's like man, I've done a lot, and it's and probably still feel like it's just the beginning. Yeah, I I feel that way anyways.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Do you have a do you have do you ever look back and like my time in LA seems really long? Like it felt like the years were long, yeah, and I was just grinding trying to figure things out. And my time, and I've been in Nashville for five years, but it's been like I don't know if it's a flow state or if it's just been like things have been so fast, but it doesn't feel as long that I've been here, but I have just as long.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Probably a flow state, you know. Uh you get in grooves to where it's just you're you're flowing, you know, you're elevating. It might not be a crazy leap, you know, or it doesn't seem like a crazy leap in the moment, but it it it's just all these small leaps over time, and it's uh yeah, I I lose track of time very, very often, honestly. Like some things will feel like my first tour at times feels like it was just yesterday, and then at times it feels like it was five years ago, you know, and it's just um, yeah, I don't know. I think I think touring has something to do with that. I think so too. Like it's uh it's not a normal lifestyle by any means. And and it's kind of I I like to say if you're touring, you're you're life maxing because you you're just you're you're literally almost going in a portal, you know. You you you jump from city to city, you'll you'll do a show here, you'll wake up at a new one, and just like start your day as if that's just normal to go to sleep in one state and wake up in the next and then just do it all over again. And you're you're doing you know essentially the same stuff every day, but all of the in-betweens, you're doing so much new things too, and seeing in new places, taking in new information. So it's uh yeah, I I I've credited touring to to my um short term memory loss too. Could be my days of drinking too, but uh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

That's a great way to put it. I think going does it just like it's it's and I and I say it lightly because it's got a little mundane from me because we've been back in the same cities I've been to. Yeah. But it's just like every day is different because it's a new city, it's a new venue, you're you're looking for coffee in the morning for like a brand new spot. Like life doesn't get boring. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um and it's like say to you if you were working like a more of a corporate job, and like you get up and you work out, and you go to the office, you get home from the office where touring has never felt like like that. You know, um there are long days, there are days on the road where you're just like you sound check early and you're like, well, what are we gonna do for six hours until the show is at eight o'clock? Um, there are those days. Um but I think early on in touring is just like it's all new, it's just like you're back and forth, you're home for two days, you're gone for four, like, whoa, it's like you're it's crazy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah, it it is a crazy lifestyle, and it's uh I don't know, it's kind of like not do not think if you join touring you're gonna be on vacation. But yeah the act of traveling and going to new places, it's kind of like you're doing a little bit of the same thing you would do on vacation in that sense, but then you're working too, making money, elevating in that realm and seeing new things. So you're kind of doing like activities for lack of better words, you're kind of doing two separate activities at the same time, week after week. And you know, if you do a whole tour that stretches a whole summer or during the fall or winter, yeah, time gets away from you, and before too long and you think back, you you think at least I do, I'll think of like my mom or like people I grew up with that work, you know, traditional jobs that work through the week, and then the weekends they're kind of just that that's their time to do anything, and it's kind of just the complete opposite for people that work jobs like us, and it's uh I don't know. It it is it's so so different than a traditional job in the best way possible. And it and it's I have a hard time describing the lifestyle of it to someone that doesn't understand it because I I'll come home from the road and just want to chill, and yeah, especially early on. My my parents, you know, when I first started, I'd go see them after like I'd get back from the road and whatnot, because I live pretty close to them and I'd be exhausted and they'd be wanting to do stuff, and it's like they didn't understand that like you just traveled and they were thinking I'm on vacation the whole time. I'm just running wild, especially at that time, like just running wild, yeah. Capitalize, I mean, capitalizing on every waking hour and staying up, partying, I mean literally everything, and I'd come home and just be like, what the hell happened? And you almost don't even remember it, but it's uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

I think a lot back to one of your questions, it's like getting on the road, it's it's far from it's like you get the taste of vacation, but you have responsibility there, so it's you're not fully relaxed. No, like you might see photos of like sitting by the pool at your hotel room or you're traveling, but it was for 20 minutes, yeah, you have that for like 20 to 30 minutes, and then you're having like all right, everyone in the van, a lot of social interaction. Yeah, there's sometimes there's no quiet time except when you're in your little bunk. Yeah. Um, I encourage everyone who wants to do it to go and try it and do it. Yeah, but there is this uh side of it, it's like it is it is like very hard on the body. Yeah, and most people get home on Sundays and they're socially exhausted. Like you just and it takes a day or two for me to kind of recover and kind of like want to open my email and want to you know get on phone calls and kind of bus call again, yeah. And then it's you know, time to go again, and you're like, oh man, like so. I've gotten to a point after five years where it's like I'm ready to transition off the road. Yeah, like I think it's got a point where not that I don't love it, but it's I think I personal goals talking those and what I want to be in five years. I don't want to be on the road. I kind of want to I need to take that next step in like management, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

So it's kind of um just another uh pivot in the career, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Yeah, and I think the room has a ceiling, yeah. And I think it's all just what are your goals on the road? Some people just that's they want to do it the rest of their life, yeah. You know, like you see some of those guys, and I'll be like, wow man, props to you to be 55 and still out here just like handling this whole thing. But yeah, it's I just I I have a a four-year-old daughter, and I'm just trying to think like in five years, where do I want to be? Not be too short-sighted with everything. Like, how are my decisions right now gonna affect what I'm doing in five years? Yeah, and not everyone's gonna understand that. Like, people are like, Well, why are you getting off the road?

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Why do you it's like it looks like the dream from the outside, and it is, it is, but you know, just because it's the dream at one point in time doesn't mean it it has to be a forever. Yeah, you know, yeah. Um, yeah, it's a uh my I'm enjoying the road and it's serving me great right now. Yeah, you know, uh I'm gonna ride that that way for as long as I dabble, I'm not just fully on the road, but it that's my bread and butter right now. But it's uh um I want to fill up about ten of these these bad boys, these shadow boxes. I just started that just started that uh last week, and I was like, okay, I need like a bunch more because I didn't realize how much tour stuff I'd collected. I'm sure you probably the same way, just passes and and laminates. And um before we get off the topic of it, you're talking and talking about transitioning, and obviously that's not tomorrow or anything, but um just touch on how important it is for someone that maybe they're in a great opportunity right now. Maybe to most people they're in a dream job. Talk about how important it is to recognize when you've hit your ceiling in a certain room or in a certain position, and how important it is to know when to pivot to what's next in your life.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah, I I think it's I I think I've gone through this a couple times in my 38 years. Um you get to a point when it's it's almost like when it's you're not as excited to do the job anymore, and you realize you're not showing up for your friends and family the way you used to, that excitement. I think that's just a telling sign that it's like you need a bigger goal. Like you've hit something, it's like and maybe sit with yourself, write down what it is. Like are you excited about what you're doing right now? And where do you see yourself? Where is this what you're currently doing gonna take you in five years? Yeah, you know, two or three, six months, whatever it might be. But yeah, I think we all feel guilty when things are going good, when it was a dream that we always had, to be like, oh, I remember when this was like all I wanted, and I don't want to feel ungrateful for what I'm what I have. But it's okay to want more for yourself. It's okay to climb a mountain and realize, like, wait, I got here, I learned this, but also I want to try doing this. Like, I think that's for someone like me, if someone comes to me, that's why I love having these one-on-ones with some of the like the band and crew. It's like I love when they can tell me those things. It's like, great, let's figure like the road doesn't have to be for you. Oh, it's like yeah, let's figure out a transition off. What do you want to get into the office? Or do you want to go, you know, maybe you want they have some of them have real estate um licenses? It's like that's okay. Like, we'll find a replacement. Like, it's more about just uh helping humans figure out what it is they want to do in life and and and chasing the dreams.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Like it doesn't always have to be about like that's that's I think if more humans understood what you just said and were more willing to just help other people along the way, you know. If you really peel it all back and look at it, we're all every single person's in a pursuit of something. And if we're in close proximity working for uh, you know, a tour or on a team per se, yeah, we're all there for at the end of the day, we're there for the artist, and that that's the the business there. But we all got our own goals and dreams and in our own heads, we're the main character, you know, not not in a in a toxic way. It's just we're doing this, yeah, for the artist or for the the company. But at the end of the day, we're there for us, you know. We're there because we see something there, but if we could be a little bit more understanding of that and just kind of uh help everyone else out along the way, that's in a perfect world, obviously. It's never gonna be like that, but uh world might be a little bit better place and people might get along a little bit better if if we were to operate like that. But that's perfect world thinking that that'll never be.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah. I but I I think it's there's something to it. I think you wanna you wanna work for somebody who kind of understands that and what's the best out of everybody. I feel like you're just gonna create a better culture, people are gonna show up knowing it it's a safe place to come, you know. Um because it's this is real life, everyone has their problems at home, everyone's dealing with things, and uh all you want to do is give people a chance to to be themselves and and be open and transparent about everything that's going on. Yeah, I don't know. At the end of the day, we're we're just putting on shows, we're just playing music. Um I'm just routing towards it. Isn't that serious? Like it's not really it's not rocket science, like my job is like I'm disposable, like there's always someone that could come in and do my job. Yeah, like it's just what it is. There's another bass player, it's so it's like just show up, do the best you can, and you know, if you have other goals or ambitions, like let's talk about it and see how you know we can fit that into what we're doing, or if you know, if you want to come off the road, let's try that for a little bit too. Like, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

With social media how it is today, and everyone kind of following the follower per se. Um do you think people are chasing their dreams or a proximity to someone else's dreams that they just see online?

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Well, I think there's always that that that side of it where you like when I was a kid, I was always looking at magazines and like looking at basketball players or or musicians and stuff, and it's like, oh, I would love to like work with those people or be that. And I think there's always that's kind of where you that's the vision board. Like social media will be like, I want to get to that. That looks like a good feeling or a good place to be. But I do think we have to be realistic about not everything is what it seems, you know. Same with touring, like back to climbing the mountain and you get somewhere, you're like, oh, I thought this would feel different. I thought getting here, I thought shooting this person, I thought being a part of this camp, I thought being full time with one artist would be cool, but after a while you're just like, you know, I'd rather be freelance. I'd rather continue doing my own little thing. Um I do think we can get um people can get caught up in the wrong thing. So it's it's it's important to realize everything you see on Instagram is not always uh not always exactly of it. And it's good to ask questions. Like I have this good mentor, his name's JJ. Um and he he's always anytime I've tried to make a switch in my career or or have big decisions, he he just reminds me is like ask around, ask other people like who are in these roles or who work with these people, like get their opinions on this. Learn, like try to find out the the red flags before you get in there, and are you willing to accept those as part of it? Because sometimes we're like, hey, money's good, I get to travel, but you don't understand like the mental toll, like the relationship toll it'll take like all these things. So it's good to um just gotta do the research, but also I'm all about going in on some, yeah, go and try it. I I'm a very like hands-on person, yeah. Like you can't tell me, like, I want to go and do it, and I'll I'll I'll get the souvenir and I'll come back and be like, all right, I did it. Like it, but he's like, that's not for me. But sometimes you just gotta go try it, you know? Try your thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Try more things, try more things. What's the fastest way to never get hired on a tour? Fast way to never get hired again.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Um man, you'll hear it in Nashville. It's like, are they a good hang? Sometimes it's like you can be great at what you're doing. You could you can be a great photographer, you could be a great bassist, you could have all the videos, you could say you've been on this thing, and then you get them out on a tour, and you're in a you're on a tour bus, and there's you know, eight to ten people, and you're just either drunk, high, you want to be the main character in the room, you don't stop talking, like, and people start leaving and go into their like if you don't if you can't read a room, I've always said it this way if you're gonna go out on a tour and you don't know these people, just go in there and be a sponge. Yeah, just sit and absorb. Let let the conversations come to you. Don't be the one trying to have all the and asking any questions. Like, just kind of let people that's their environment. And I th I I feel like that's the quickest way to just like I've seen it so many times, bro. Like even this past this this year, I've seen it a couple times where people just they just not it not a not a good hang. And I don't know how you coach someone on a hang. I don't think you can. I don't I just think sometimes it's like it's not the right right fit. Yeah, you know, I don't want to tell someone they shouldn't be someone that they are. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

I'm never the one to say it just doesn't mesh with the environment that you can. That isn't what we need, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Yeah, and that's just being like not being afraid to have the conversation of say, hey man, like I just don't think this is a good fit. Yeah, great at what you do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Yeah, no, I I'd have to agree with that. I've any advice that I I could give to uh someone that's trying to tour is you have to be a good hang because I've seen talented photographers, videographers in all positions, but you know, talking about what it is I do, I mean, there's been tours, I'm not gonna say names of anything, but there's been tours that I've been on with like big artists where mutual like photographers and videographers got brought up, and that I know and that like I really admire and respect their work. And then these people in this tour are like, yeah, that person was just uh not a fun person to be around. They they were this and that, and I'm just like that's so sad to hear because like dang, here I am. Like, not that I idolize these people's work, but I'm like, oh, if they're a great photographer, at least everything and you know it doesn't take away that they're from being a good photographer. But just because you are great at what you do doesn't mean you're gonna get hired back in the touring world if you're not fun to be around the job itself, the the show, which what we're there for, 30 minutes to an hour, hour and a half tops, you know what I mean? Yeah, what how are you the rest of the the 23, the 22 hours of the day? Because you got to be around these people talking about living on a on a bus with them and and not having too much uh alone time and it really drains your social battery. You don't want to be around someone that's that's not enjoyable to be around. And that I think I just understand that as a human. You know, some get it. You're talking about coaching people, like how do you coach? I don't think you can. I think some it can be maybe learned, but I don't think you can actually like coach someone on it. They just have to screw up enough times and and realize, okay, maybe I'm maybe I'm the problem. And but even then, you know, I don't I don't I think it just goes back down, boils down to understanding that I credit a lot of it to sports being a good hang and and understanding how to one work with people, but two, how to have locker room talk and how to be in a locker room with other people. You know, you you learn those things early on, and and I I myself, and and being able to be a good hang and to be in a room and and not and be a sponge, I think I credit a lot of it to playing sports growing up. Um it helped me out anyways. But um so what's what's uh next for you on the I know you're in the middle of a tour right now with uh Zach John King. Y'all y'all are um finishing that out. I just want to give my condolences real quick to him. I know he posted yesterday at the time of recording yesterday um about losing his father. So just really want to give my condolences and and and prayers to to the king family um and um and to everyone around him. So I know I know you guys are taking a little two-week break from that tour, um, but getting back out on the road after that. So fall looking pretty busy or yeah, he's got a big year.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

He's he's out with uh Luke Bryan, uh Riley Green. Just Luke Bryan and Riley Green, no big deal. No big deal. Morgan Wallen this during the summer. Full summer of Morgan Wallen tours. It's been great. Zach's a great guy. I love that kid. Um, and then he's got a headline tour starting October, so album coming out at the end of August. Like it's it's big. I'm I'm I don't listen to a lot of country music. Yeah, I think we talked about this a little bit. I'm not really one to like put on a Wallen album or a lot of these country artists, but Zach's one of the guys I will just like open my phone and be like, hey, I want to hear, I want to listen to space, I want to listen to you know backwoods, like all these things. Like he's he's on a different level. Um and I love to see it, love to support it. Um yeah, it's it's it's cool to see. So I think he's got a bright, bright future. Absolutely. Um but yeah, it's a lot of touring. I do you know some day-to-day work on the side for some other artist, um, but slowly just building building those things on the side. Um I'm always looking for artists to help. Like I've connected a few artists with a couple uh with like Sony ARs and stuff. Nice. Um so yeah, I'm always just like I'm just in the business of like helping people reach their dreams. Like I don't want to just be in one place. I like to be able to do as much as I can and and help others see their potential, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

With being on the road and and traveling so much, you're obviously away from home and away from family. Uh, and you obviously we started the episode by mentioning that you were a father. How has the road or how does the road impact that role in being a father and how do you kind of manage those two jobs that require so much attention from you?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

It's it's because you're road dad when you're on tour, and then you're then your real dad when you get home. Always the dad, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

It's it's it's wild, man. It's uh I think honestly, having Isla has made me such a better person. Better person and better, better boss, better tour manager, better friend, all the things. It's just it no longer became about just me. Um and not that I was big into like partying and goofing off, but once once you have a a child and you lock in as a dad, you're like, okay, well, everything I think about her and everything I do. You know, so I there was a while for a time on the road where it's like I just took it very serious, and it was like I didn't drink for a while, and I was just really focused on it was like if it wasn't the road, it was Isla. And I'd come home and it was just it was just very strict and disciplined, and um it's it's tough to balance because you want to if I was to give advice to any anyone who was starting trying to start a family and be a tour manager, I would say go be a tour manager first, get get get a feel for it, um, and then think about the family. It's not I wouldn't say this is the best setup for having trying to have a family. Yeah, I mean being away, it's not it's harder on the mom. It's doable, but it's hard. It's doable, it's definitely doable. Um but I do think it just uh it just it forces you to kind of just be a better person. Yeah, I'm looking out for uh maybe more fatherly on the road too. I'm I'm looking for out for everybody on the road, and and I love that. I love the challenge of figuring out ways to how to make this the best thing possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Yeah, uh it takes a lot of um I don't know what the word is, discipline. Obviously, it's what you gotta do and it's the right thing, but you know, not everybody would be capable of of balancing road life with family life and taking care of a daughter, so I I commend you for that. That's you know, not every man could do that. It it takes a real man to be present and actually do that. And I know you are because we talked about it, you know, the time that we met up for coffee and I see it, you post about it all the time. And you know, obviously it's social media, you just see see stuff, but it I don't know, it it I smile every time I see them. Like I don't really doing it because I know that you probably just got off a tour bus the day before and you're exhausted, and it's uh it takes a takes a lot to do that. Well thank you, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

I appreciate it's it's the best biggest joy of my life. Do you do you want kids?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

I do someday, yes. Don't have any right now. Um, but when when the good Lord's willing, yes, I I definitely want kids in a family someday. Um that's why I'm touring like crazy right now, get it, get it out. So not not to say that I you know wouldn't tour then too, but you know, I know that it's right now this window of time is like you know, I don't have too many crazy, crazy responses. Responsibilities. Check on my mama, make sure she's good. And you know, that that's my duties right now. But eventually I know that'll change and life will come at you really quick. And you know, so it just um but yes, to answer your question one day. One day there there needs to be a little rip with the camera running around. Yes, there does. Yeah, I got plenty of I've started a collection of cameras that I can start start giving to them. I better be careful before I manifest something I'm not ready for, but that's how it happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

It's like we talked about it. You get a phone call and we get off the guess what?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

No, no. Okay, next next question. Uh what what role? Um speaking of well, actually, manifesting and you know, speaking things into existence. Obviously, we were talking earlier, you you kind of have to, you know, create your own luck and and put yourself out there and and be striving after something, but um what role does detachment play in getting what you want just as much as the pursuit of it? Um I I I think we're probably talking like detachment of like ego and and just detaching from the outcome, you know, for someone that that has goals and and that is striving to to get somewhere and and it kind of just overtakes them. What role does the detachment in the outcome actually play in in reaching success and getting what it is you want?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

Yeah, that's a great question. It's it's it's never been um anything I've ever started, I want to be the best at, you know. Um but it's that saying that it's it's not always about what happens or like reaching the highest peak, it's like who you become in pursuit of that. And all the things that I've learned and anything I've ever decided to to put myself into, it's like it's the person I became as trying to be the best tour manager and the discipline it takes and paying attention to detail and taking care of people and giving me the opportunity to be the leader, um, and the connections and relationships. Like I'm so blessed. Like when I look back for the three years with Nate, like we we were everywhere. We've been to Australia twice, been to Europe, uh Canada multiple times. We've been all over the world, and it's like I go through my phone and like it's pretty wild the the contacts that I have and anywhere I go now. It's like we've been to any basketball game we wanted, we're to football games, we like hockey games, like anywhere we wanted to go, man. It's it's cool what it gives you access to. Um and I'm just blessed that it's like that just showing up and trying to be the best every day is it was enough for me to get to where I wanted to go. You know, I'm am I the greatest TM? Absolutely not. There's people that are far better than me, that are gonna re run bigger tours. Um but growing up, like there was this Ashton Kutcher quote where he was talking about how he like his first job was like sweeping Cheerios or something in the Cheerios wherever he lived, Iowa, wherever the factories are. He's like, whatever it is I decided to do, he's like, I was gonna be the best at it. Yeah, and that's that's all you have to do. It's like when I see people working at like grocery stores or McDonald's and they're they're slacking off, they're like, Well, if you can't show up here and be great at what you're doing, one, why are you here? And it's like, well, where do you where do you plan to take this? Yeah, like it's it's those daily habits, regardless of what you're doing. As in being a dad, it's like I want to show up and be the best dad. What does a good dad do? Research and and and and f do that every day. Yeah, you know, I'm sure you kind of feel the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Yeah, I mean do those those small inputs each and every day, and you will get better at whatever it is you're I I I definitely agree with that. Um if every creative listening or just every if every person listening could take away one thing from a lesson that changed your life or changed your thought process on life, what would you want them to remember?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:09

Um question.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

It's probably a lot of things, but um one thing too, I guess I'm just gonna I'd say it like this. It's like um one you gotta believe in yourself before anyone else does. Like you have to know that you you're capable of doing it. You don't have to have all the answers, but you just gotta put your foot in the water and just and and and try it. Um I knew I didn't know how to be a TM, but when I showed up that day, I was like, I'm gonna figure this out. And every day I'll just dedicate myself to figuring that out. Um and with that is like I'm a huge I'm big into reading books, man. Like I don't read as much. I'm a lot busier now. I still have books. I buy one a month to always make sure I have something by my bedside. Um I'm big into journaling. But it's I just try to as much information as I can get. And just um because that's just it's gonna come in handy at some point, and it's just like we're always out here to learn. Like you're never gonna stop learning. Like I wasn't in college, I wasn't the best student, I wasn't a bad student, but I just didn't like school that much. But I knew I needed to be in school because it's like what else? If I don't know what I'm doing, what am I doing? I can't just know. You know, I was gaining the knowledge, I was showing up to classes, it was that little bit of discipline everywhere I went. And I remember the my favorite teacher before it was graduation week, and he was like, he kind of got emotional. He said, But whatever you guys do, don't stop learning. When you leave this classroom, don't think it's the end of like learning. Yeah, go buy books and continue. And I went and bought a bunch of Malcolm Gladwell books after that. And I just like then I found the alchemist. And that alchemist is what pushed me to move to LA because I said, This is I felt like I was Santiago on that journey to like, all right, well, he he left his hometown because he felt there was something in his heart, there was a treasure. Yeah, he had to go see it. And as you go out on that journey, it's not gonna be easy, things are gonna happen, you're gonna lose money, you're gonna meet bad people. Um but it's it's just taking that step. And then the green light theory of of Matthew McConaughey is basically it's like set yourself up for success, and that is every relationship, any job you work, leave leave a good impression and leave um on good terms. Yeah. The best you can. You can't always be able to do it. Don't burn bridges because you don't want to spend your life looking behind you to see if like something like someone's gonna like ask you for money or say you you screwed them over. It's like just just be a good person. It's it's not hard. You don't always have to be right, you don't always have to have money, you don't have to have all the answers, but just don't burn bridges. Yeah, and be a good person. And then as you get going, you hit more green lights, you know. The more people you meet, they're like, Oh, I heard, yeah, he you know, he stepped away from this job, but but he was really respectful the way he did it. You know, yeah or he couldn't hire me, or he had to let me go on the tour, but he had a good conversation about like, hey, like this is just how you know this doesn't seem like a good fit. Yeah, like I'm happy to recommend you to other people, just not a good fit for this, but hey, you've got my number, and it's not no, you know, bad blood.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:23

Right. Yeah, I was uh the one of the last people that I had on one of the last guests. We were talking about that. Like, don't burn bridges, one, because morally, it you know, you don't want to do that. You want to have a good relationship, even if it's not a working relationship, you don't want it to be bad. But two, also it's uh it's a small world, it's a small industry. You burn bridges with one, that person might talk, and that word gets around, and your reputation's all you got at the end of the day. Yeah, and you you need that in this industry and in life in general. So yeah, don't don't burn bridges, always do your best. Um I was there was something you said a second ago. I was about I had a question that popped in my head, but it's can't think of it now. I'll probably think of it as soon as we cut. But um, well, it's been a fire episode, it's been a fire conversation. I'm glad we uh got to sit down and and do this. Um we almost literally when we s when we had the conversation in the coffee shop when I left there that day, I'm like, I had the idea to start doing coffee shop type episodes. Oh, yeah. And like, but you know, I'd have to get it clear, which is not nothing but a conversation with the coffee shop. But just I don't know, the vibe of that place where we went. Um remind me Silver Fox, yeah, yeah. 16th Street. Dude, it was so cool. I was like, this is a vibe, and I could see like just coffee shop talks with Rip or something. I don't know if I seen a whole series, obviously I didn't act on that, but it was just uh it was a such a good conversation. We were flowing and and a lot of relatability there too. So it's uh and I think so many creatives, just people like you and I would resonate with more people too if they just got out of their box a little bit more and took the time to go have a 30-minute or an hour-long conversation with somebody, you know. I think we we get so in our own boxes, and and in today's time, I think COVID can be credited to some of it, but I don't know. We just we stay in our own shells so much these days. I'm not speaking for everybody, but get out of your own house, go out in the world, go to a coffee shop, go to a a co-working space, go just walk a couple blocks in in a city or in your town. And it's just like get out there and make these connections. That's the whole reason creatively connected is a thing, is to connect with people and connect people that are creative. And you just have to, it goes, it goes back to putting yourself out there. Like you you opportunities will come, you will create your own luck, you will, you will get gigs and and and who knows what if you just put yourself out there a little bit more, you know. And it's okay if you're shy, if you're someone who's shy and and introverted and and don't like getting out and making friends and have no clue, the slightest understanding on how to network, like it, it's okay. It's just a barrier that you have to cross. It there's nothing wrong with you, it's just all up here in your head. And if you can get out of your head and get out of your shell, the world is your oyster and it will open up to you in ways that you never even knew were possible before.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

So true.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:29

I like to say I'm a extroverted introvert. You can go out and and make friends, make connections, and be a social butterfly, but at the end of the day, I I like quiet, I like my peace, I I like whenever when no one's talking around me, and I can just just lock into my mind, which can be a scary thing because y'all don't even want to know what goes on in this brain up here. So I feel the same, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I I love quiet. I am not afraid to be alone. Yeah, I mean not afraid to be alone. I prefer it. Really good at it. I that's where all my good thoughts come. That's that's that's peace for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

It's kind of scary how much I prefer to be alone over to be with people.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

Yeah, dude. I love early like in the mornings, there's two ways, and and you may relate to this. Like for the longest time it was me. I get up, go to the gym, high-intensity workouts. And lately, and I don't know if it's the road thing or getting older, but my quiet mornings, like I love to sit with coffee and piece of blank piece of paper. Yeah. And I just write my thoughts. Like those thoughts. Thoughts in the morning, man, are like that's so cool. Like whatever comes out because you get the fatigue throughout the day. The freshest, man. It's uh it's the golden hour. It's like that's where a lot of cool ideas come. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:47

I I think some of the uh probably some of the best ones you have are early, you know, early morning time or really late night, you know. And it's I don't know if it's some I think it's a mix of your brain being fresh too, but I've always been fascinated by the thought of it too. Not and and it could be different because it's different times of the world, but not everybody's up at that hour, you know. Not at not there's energies not in motion as much as as midday when everyone's just running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to make a dollar, you know. It's uh yeah, I uh I'm big on first thing getting up and going to the gym or running, but there's nothing better than 15 for me, you know, for 15 to 20 minutes of just sitting and just thinking about everything that I'm gonna do to in the day, you know, and and switching that mindset of thinking about everything I gotta do and everything I get to do. I think that's been huge for me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:45

Are you a big dreamer?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

Are you a big like visualized things? I have uh I'll meditation, I'll I'll throw on some like meditation music. I mean, literally just go to YouTube, type in meditation music. Yeah, it's just a frequency, it just gets your brain in a you know a certain state, and yeah, I'll vision. I'm journaler. I got uh probably four or five notebooks up there that I've just filled over time, and I'm not perfect at it, and especially in the last year, I think life's just gotten so busy that I haven't, but I think that that's the most important time to journal is when you're in those moments of busyness because and chaos, because it's gonna be the ones that you that slip out of your mind over time and and to have something to reflect back on. And and even if it's just like you know, a couple sentences about what it is you did that day or how you're feeling six years from now, if you flip back to that, you can be like, oh, okay, I was feeling that way because of this, and you you'll remember that, you know. As long as it can make sense to you, people overthink journaling and meditation through conversations that I've had with you know, friends and um peers. It's like, well, how do I meditate? It's like, I don't know, figure out what works for you. Like it sit in silence. I forget where I where I read it at. Um, it was a statistic, it was like a a study that was done. Um, don't know how accurate and everything, but it it it was like 90, 92% of people, I want to say, don't quote me on the exact number, but it was like 92% of people can't sit in silence with their own thoughts for more than 15 minutes. And I'm just like, that's insane to me because 15 minutes is just my warm-up here. Like, I'm I'm gonna need another 15. But um that's that part's crazy to me, but yeah, I love my silence, love my uh solitude. I haven't always been like that either. I think it I think it no, I think it's just something that's I used to be like the um the people pleaser, the outgoing, like just life of the party, center of attention. At least that's how I viewed it, you know. It's all perspective game. It might not have been that at all, but that's how I I approached, you know, days and situations and events. But I don't know. I think uh I think uh what just getting older, losing people, uh it shapes you, it makes you just you know, it messes with your mind, it makes you grow up. And I don't know. It's uh I've definitely changed over, and that's the point of it all. You know, we're supposed to change. That's the whole point. But um, dude, fire episode. I appreciate you so much. Guys, if you're tuned in listening right now, if you're a photographer and videographer and you're looking for a more efficient way to carry your camera equipment around, head over to the link in the description. I have the condition one camera cases linked down there. I used to carry mine in a soft shell backpack for so long, and I don't know why, because it just made me look like an amateur, and then I broke a lens, and that that's a whole nother topic that we won't get into. But you want to carry your equipment efficiently. You've spent thousands of dollars on it, so why not carry it in a hard shell case that's built to last, that's gonna protect it's all weatherproof, and the whole nine. So, anyways, I got the link in the description. You can get 10% off using that if you want a new camera case, and if you don't, that's okay too, because I got two of mine, and my camera cases are awesome, and they protect my camera equipment. I don't have to worry about anything breaking. So I got that linked in there. Adam Knowles, ladies and gentlemen, where can they follow you? Where can they find you on social if you uh if you want them to?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

You know, it's Ada Main. A-D-A-M-A-I-N-E. Like Adam with the state of Maine. Ada Main.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

Ada Main. Thank you for having me, bro. That's dope. I've never I never thought about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:35

A main people thought yeah, my girlfriend's friends thought my name was Adam Main.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

Yeah. But I just thought it was like, you know, one of those usernames you just picked early on and locked it in.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:49

Yeah, it used to be A underscore D underscore man, A to Man. Okay. But A to Man was taken, so I went to A to Main. A to Main. It is never mind blown, right? Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:59

What did you think? What do you think it was?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:00

Just look at it like that. Yeah, I didn't even look at it. I just seen it, I'm like, hmm, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

Like maybe it was just a username he just went with, but I should probably put kid from Maine underneath it so people are like, oh, that's being from Maine, yeah. A to Maine. Yeah. Well, it's probably a little outdated now. When once you get older, you start changing a couple of your things. You're like, oh my emails, like, you know what I mean? You can't have like saucy boys set to you anymore, you know what I mean? You gotta kinda like you gotta you gotta be more professional. Yeah. Um, but no, A to Math, yeah, I I like it. It's I don't know. It's it's dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

I got so lucky with my handle. I secured Chris Rippey when Instagram damn near launched. Yeah. I've had like the same account through it all, you know. Uh, and at one point I thought about changing it. I'm glad I didn't, because then I probably that's someone would have snagged it. There's there's a couple Chris Rippies out there, but there's only one shot by Rippey, and he's right here hosting the Creatively Connected podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, Adam Knowles, thank you so much for joining us, man. Thank you, bro. This was a blast. We appreciate it. Guys, I think this is episode 34, 35. I don't know. I'm not, don't quote me on that. But if you've been tuning in to any of the previous episodes, thank you. We are dropping two episodes every single week for the rest of the year. I'm saying that out loud so you, the listeners, can't hold me accountable to that. I got a busy schedule the rest of the summer and fall, but we're staying consistent, we're putting it out there, we're bringing fire conversations and experience and expertise to you guys from talented creatives. I can't thank you enough for tuning in. Make sure to go follow Adam, support him and his journey. We appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you guys in the next episode. Peace.