Interview with Family and Marriage Therapist Amber Trueblood

Amber is an author, podcaster, parenting expert and coach and family and marriage counselor. She has written a book, The Unflustered Mom: How Understanding the Five Anxiety Styles Transforms the Way We Partner, Parent, Live, and Love.

I think we can all agree that some (or ALL) of our anxiety is driven by parenting tricky kids. Amber acknowledges this anxiety is part of our lives and provides clear and simple tools to improve the odds of us managing our emotions. My favorite part of the book is that she acknowledges there are five different types of anxiety and she provides instruction directed at each type. It is not one size fits all. Plus, there's a quiz you can take to determine your anxiety style!

www.ambertrueblood.com
www.flourishquiz.com

A Podcast for People Raising Tricky Kids

Transcript

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  📍  📍  📍 . Hey, Amber. Hi. How are you?

Hi, Stephanie. I'm, I am well and apparently there's no storm brewing here, but I, but I hear there's one brewing near you. So we'll, we'll hope that, you know, that we have internet connection to record this whole thing.

I think that sounds great. Yeah. It's unpredictable here, whether the storm is outside or inside my house. So it just

that's the perfect segue. Yes, so

I, I loved reading your, um, biography that one of the things you mentioned is that you have four boys and homeschooling?

So this is their first year back in traditional school in quite some time. So they just finished a school year. Yes, all four of them. So yeah. And we're going back again in the fall, but you know what's crazy is this is our first summer where two things changed. They had been in regular school, and then we're home.

Because before the transition was like, this is the same, it's the same thing. Like, it's just called summer now, but we, you know, we didn't do it much differently. This year there was that, and this was also the first year they had cell phones.

Okay.

Oh, Oh, and two of them had girlfriends and it was like a whole different ball of

my gosh. So what's the age range of your boys?

So they're 10, 12, 14 and 15.

overlapping, but we are not quite to like the, well, my, yeah, my 13 year old, um, is totally still like video games and reading science fiction and is, is not there yet. I mean, he definitely is noticing girls. Uh, and so we have to monitor some cell phone usage. Oh my gosh. But he's not like coming home talking about anybody or anything like that.

Um, and then they're in a band together? Okay, what kind of band?

It's like a rock band. I don't know how to explain it. And I always get the first question, because they're pretty serious. Like, they write songs, they have a ton of songs, they perform, they have like a Spotify account now, they have like a bazillion Instagram followers. It's wacky to

That's amazing!

And, um, Yeah, it's so weird. And one of the first questions I always get is like, well, who's the musician in your family? Like, are you a musician or is your husband a musician? And neither one of us are musicians. So it's really been a journey for us to, to learn along with them. And, um, it's, it's been really fun.

We went to, they saw their first like big arena concert last night. So we got home at like midnight. Yeah.

oh my gosh, who did you guys see?

We saw Paramore. Yeah. Which is a band I had not ever heard of, but they've been around forever and their songs are great and The boys knew like all the words and so we were like jumping around for hours and hours last

I love that and I'm so glad it was successful. I have, my husband keeps reminding me that I kind of take my idea of this amazing memory and experience and maybe drag my kids into stuff that they're not like ready for. So I'm like, you love the musical Hamilton, let's go see it. And then the show doesn't start till eight.

And so like halfway through they're begging to go home and go to bed. And I'm like, no, this is the best moment of

it. You're gonna love it. I swear.

What are we doing? Oh, my middle son, who he is a huge Hamilton fan and has even exchanged mail with Lin Manuel Miranda. Like that level of fan. Well, Lin will write back every single person that writes him.

It's just a matter of how long. So I think it took like six months for him to get a reply.

That's so special though.

Oh my, Oh, I, I was, and I've like, I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to frame that. I have it framed. A copy of it is framed. The original I have in the safe. I don't trust him. Like it'd get mad or have a, um, anxiety meltdown and break Lin Manuel Miranda's letter.

So we're not going to do that. Um, but he had seen it once before we drove to Dallas to see it, but then they were in Tulsa and I was like, this is awesome. It's in our backyard. Let's go. And I just, anyway, it must not have been his day because at intermission, I had to have my husband come get him and he left and these people who were sitting next to us.

We're so sweet. And of course, my kids befriend literally everyone. It's so funny because I can't complain about them. Like, they're really hard. Like, my middle is so hard to parent. And literally everyone's like, Oh, I love him. Yes. Well, he is so charming. So the people behind us after intermission were like, Where's the blonde one?

And I was like, Oh, His dad had to come get him. He didn't make it through the show. And that's fine. So, um, I really do want to take them to like a rock concert because they love... Music and I'm just a little bit nervous about how it will go because I also want to enjoy the show That's the problem if I took them to somebody I didn't care about maybe that would be less stress, but they really wanted to go see you two in Las Vegas with us and We just kind of were like, you know what?

We're gonna spend all this money and what if like four songs in you're ready to go So there they will

Yeah!

not be joining us on that but if YouTube goes on another world tour. We will try to make it happen.

Yeah, and they will down the line, it'll be a different experience, but that's so smart of you. And, and it's really like, there's no right or wrong answer. Like you, you try to make the best decisions with the amount of information you have at the time and your gut feeling. And sometimes it works out beautifully and sometimes it's a hot mess and sometimes it's somewhere in between.

Right? Like, well, he made it through half the show and luckily my husband could come pick him up and it worked out like

Yeah, and he wears his... He wears his Hamilton hat all the time and honestly, he reflects on it as a great experience. I was the one who was trying not to cry because I'm texting my husband while the show is happening, which I hate being one of those people and I'm like, you have to come. You've got to be here.

There's three songs left before intermission. You need to get here and I'm gonna send him out onto the street in downtown and come get him. So I was actually The most bothered of the whole thing because it felt it fell apart. He was fine. Like he

He was fine. He's like, that was great. Bye.

Bye

I'm going to go home and go to bed. And it was probably like a tremendous amount of information too for him to absorb and all the people around and all that energy and like it might have been just the most amazing thing anyway. Like he got the most out of it that he could and he knew when it was time to check out.

That's, I really like that way of looking at it. I like that. Because, you know, in my mind I was like, we spent all this money and we took the, you know, we're here and it's a school night even and anyway, I have to learn to couch my, like my want and imagination and expectations, you know, cause we're, I don't know, I don't know about you, but I'm constantly trying to create some magic over here.

yeah.

I think

just canceled a, a camping trip that I had in my mind as this like amazing thing. And then we went on a different trip and I was like, yeah, I don't

we're not

I don't think any of us are ready for that yet, including me. So I'm just gonna pause on that for a hot minute. I have a question since you mentioned musicals.

Did you ever take your boys to see the, um, School of Rock musical

No, and I need to show them the movie, too. I always

of my boys were in the traveling, um, the touring company of that.

Oh my

Yeah. So we came through Vegas, not Dallas. We hadn't joined the tour yet in Dallas, but we were in Fort Worth and oh no, we were in Dallas.

We were in Dallas. I'm forgetting anyway. So

that's

have been cool. Yeah.

that's so funny that you have kids that are being artistic and that's not you and your husband's background where my husband is an audio engineer and my degree is in acting. Um, I, that's not how I make a living, but we're artsy people and our kids are pursuing sports. And so we're.

I'm like, how does this work? How often should I be making him practice tennis? And do I need to get like this really special coach or, you know, trying to, and everyone's giving us all this advice, like during the summer he needs to be practicing five days a week. Well, he's in eighth grade and he's not that into it.

Like, so we're doing two days, we're doing two days a week, but I don't like all the practices and you know, I get an email about a banquet and I'm like, is this like for everybody?

like what's this for?

are we,

totally

if we show up to this, are we gonna look stupid? Like, I don't know if every, like, you know, you didn't win a trophy this year.

Who's it for? It's just, if he were the lead in a school play, I'd have it. I would nail the whole thing.

you know all the questions to ask you'd know what to go over with him So my husband and I are both like on the artsy side in the sense that he's a photographer. I'm a writer And so we like we do understand that stuff more than like the sports stuff I have mom friends that have their kids in like Hot and they're good too, which makes to in my mind everything so much more complicated, right?

Because then you're in championship games and then you're in the club teams and then you go and then the like season quote unquote Doesn't last like two months. It lasts like nine months and I don't understand

And then there's a whole summer season that like, okay, we're going to move that sport indoors. So my strategy is very different. So I don't know what part of the country you're in, but in Oklahoma and Texas and like sports are a really big deal, especially football. Like if you don't start when they're little, like you're behind if you want to actually play.

And my strategy, and I don't really know where I came up with it was. I'll sign them up for stuff when they seem interested in literally anything. So we did like church league soccer a little bit when they were little, but honestly they were, could take it or leave it. As a matter of fact, recently we drove past that church and I was like, Oh look, it's time for soccer signups.

Do you want to sign up? Nope. Okay.

okay. Phew

I don't need, I don't need more to do, and I don't need to sign you up for gymnastics or guitar lessons or whatever if you're not excited to be there. So I'm like the only person in my friend group that I'm like, What are you guys doing this weekend? We're gonna swim all day.

What are you guys doing? They're like, Well, we have four tournaments of whatever. So it's coming. My middle schooler, he had several tournaments at the end of the school year last year, and that was interesting to juggle. Um, But it is, it has, the activities have not completely taken over yet. They

When I think like circling back to like your audience and what can help them and you know because there's so many different moms I'm going to say on this spectrum of like guilt versus expectations either that we put on ourselves or that come from like directly from other people around us like what do you mean he's so good at tennis why why aren't you like exactly what you said he should be practicing like have you have are you going to this coach or that coach and you're like I don't even know what you're talking about right and I would say to parents who can relate to this conversation, if I don't want to even say like if there's guilt because it's probably there's guilt either way, right?

Like there's guilt all the time. So often. And if you're not battling that, kudos. Amazing. Yes. Like great. Um, but if you are a little bit, you know, it's, it's really about checking in, checking in with yourself, right? Checking in with your gut. Yeah. Check it realizing all your kids are different, right? So just because you're like, oh my gosh, I spent, you know, 2, 700 last year on like, you know, sports and equipment and uniforms and fees for this kid and like nothing on this kid.

So I've got to like put them in stuff like, you know, we make all these weird, um. Comparisons, you know, which I say really is is not quote fair at all Like the fairest thing you could do is say what does this kid need or want right now? and Do I want to like how is it going to impact our family and myself and my own mental and emotional needs?

Because really they need a mom who has her what I call their emotional bank account as replenished as possible and so If I'm signing them up for all these things because it's the right thing for them and it's the right timing and they really want to, the third part of the equation is really, do I have the bandwidth to show up for this?

Does it sound fun for me? If both of those answers are no, then can you do it later? Can you, you know, work with another parent who may be their kid? is in a play and they don't know anything about helping their kid with this play, right? And you're like, hey, how about like you take my kid to tennis practice or just like Practice down in the park with them and all i'd be so happy to help your daughter Like practice for her

her lines.

Oh my gosh, like That's so fun. So being able to check in with yourself and really like Take a moment, take a breath, get some quiet, and that could be in the shower, in the car, after you've just dropped somebody off, go pull over for a second, in the grocery store, like just go hide in the back corner, like literally, like find your moments, breathe, and just check in, like be as honest with yourself as possible.

And I also want to say, there's no right or wrong answer. There isn't. And, and this is probably why I appreciated homeschooling is like, you always, always, always have permission to change your mind. So not only is there no right or wrong answer, but if it's not working for your kid, like Hamilton, if it's not working for you, like I'm sure you have other examples, right?

Or if it's not working for your family dynamics at that point in time, you can almost always change your mind. There will sometimes be consequences like, great, I just spent that money and I wish I hadn't. Or, you know, I have to have this really uncomfortable conversation with the coach or my best friend or somebody else.

I feel like I'm letting down, like there will be consequences that might be uncomfortable, but you always have the choice to make a different decision if it's not going as well as you had hoped or planned because. You don't have a, like, a crystal ball. You don't know. And so, trusting yourself to make the best decision you can for yourself, your family, and your child is part one.

And then, please, please, please always remember, there's no right or wrong answer, and you can't be expected to know everything, and you can always change your mind.

I think that's huge because I think you know parents of a certain generation So I'm a generation Xer and like I was

I think I am too. What age is that? I don't even know. I'm going to be 49

Okay, yeah, you're you're solidly gender generation X yes, so, you know reality bites breakfast club that's like our people But I was kind of taught like you signed up for blank And, you know, no one cares if you're so stressed out that you aren't, can't sleep and you're crying yourself to sleep. Like you signed up, you committed, you're doing that.

For us, in our household, it's different if it's like, I don't know, you joined a six person soccer team, and if you quit and there's like three games left, then there's this huge repercussion. But we tried guitar, and you know what? My trickiest kid, who you cannot make do anything, like the consequences don't matter, he will burn the whole house down before he will just go practice, he just never got into practicing.

He loved going to the lesson. He loved holding the guitar. But finally the instructor said, do you know what, buddy? I just don't feel like you're that into this, you know? So between, you know, we kind of made a deal between now and next. Friday when your next lesson is, if you don't know this eight bar song, which was very, very easy.

Um, and you haven't practiced that. I think that's going to be like your last lesson. And that was a bummer for me. Cause we had bought the stuff cause we break things a lot too. And so I didn't want to borrow. My brother was like, you can borrow my guitar. And I was like, no, cause then we'll have to replace it.

Like we're just gonna own it ourselves that we don't have to worry about that. And I told my son, I said. Every, let's decide on a time. We came up with a plan. And I said, okay, every day at dinner, I will remind you, Hey, remember you wanted to learn that song. Now is the time to practice. Let's go practice, but I'm not gonna make you.

So if you say, I don't want to, I want to go do this or that, I'm not gonna make you. And by Friday comes, if you don't know the song, like we're not going. And he didn't. He didn't do it and So I texted the instructor and said, you know, you were right. We're not coming. We're quitting, but I told my son I said we have all the sheet music.

Your dad knows how to play the guitar. We still have the guitar We can do this like you can sit and no one's saying you can't ever touch a guitar again, but you clearly just You're not passionate about it. I don't know why. And I was killing myself to get to this four o'clock slot on a Friday after school and juggling the other two kids.

I know it was worse slot. Um, because he's just, well, and also, I

four o'clock,

his ADHD medication is completely out of his system. It's Friday. So that was also an issue, but I just, I allowed him to quit. And we kind of have done that several times with several things. And I think some parents. And I understand like you want to teach your kid, like you committed to something and you don't want to let some, there's like a balance there has to, and like, in a lot of conversation, I think about it.

So anyway, we got a guitar and no one knows how to play it currently,

Yeah, and sometimes it's the like, you know, in my book I go into motivational styles and really, because if you're trying to force something, well I think there's two components to it. One is, you know, if you say I want to learn guitar, just as an adult, um, and Sometimes it's a motivational style thing, like, okay, I know I'm, so I, I list kind of different styles, like sometimes you know that like you, you're going to show up to that belly dancing class if you're going with a friend, if you have like some sort of accountability partner, you're way more likely, especially with moms, because lots of times we'll say, Oh, I really want to go to this, but I don't know why I chose belly dancing class, but belly dancing class.

Um, but oh my gosh, I still haven't unpacked from, you know, You know, this trip, like literally the suitcase is sitting on my floor. There's 12 loads of laundry. Like it's. It feels, it feels irresponsible or it feels selfish or it feels whatever. It's just not a good time. I'll, I'll go next week, you know? So sometimes it's a motivational style like, Oh, I have an accountability partner or I paid the money or, um, we have a belly dancing performance in four weeks and I cannot miss the, you know, I can't miss the practice or, um, I know that I can't do a class that's at four p.

m. on Fridays because I'm just burnt out. But if I do a Sunday morning like early, then I practice then. And so, you know, I always find like, find the tricks that work for you. And you can do this by You know, reading that section and in my book or many other books that talk about those sorts of things or, you know, asking yourself, like, when have I learned something new in the past like this and what worked for me then, you know, uh, telling everybody I know, like, oh my gosh, I'm learning guitar.

Sometimes for some people, it's like, no, that's too much pressure. That's not gonna motivate me. And the other half is like, really understanding your why. Like, really understanding your why. Is it like, Does he want to learn guitar because dad knows guitar and it's a way of connecting with dad? It does he want to and if so, then use that information to

school, his school has a rock band that performs once a year. So he wants to do that, but he, he, this particular kid just struggles with the hard. He wants to be able to do it. everything perfectly instantly and has a very low, very low frustration tolerance. And before his first lesson, we were sitting outside, he'd never played the guitar.

And I could tell he was like ready to run because he just goes, I bet you think I'm terrible at the guitar. And I said, I can't form an opinion on your ability to play the guitar because no one has taught you how to play the guitar. You just don't know how to play. Yeah, and you know, I

and, and I tend to, I tend to think that a lot of neurodivergent, and this is not my area of expertise, but, um, I have kids that   learned different.

They learn differently. They have a lot of similar characteristics to a lot of kids on the spectrum. Um, they, um, tend to learn very quickly. Um, and so their level of expectation with themselves, and I think that there's a lot of overlap. So a lot of these kids that seem to like, oh, they're ADD, but when they are focused on something, holy mackerel, are they focused?

And so, um, I had one of my kids when he was learning piano, had a very similar thing and he only wanted to use these two fingers and because he

play the piano with two fingers,

but he could do it and he wanted to learn the letters. learn the pattern, and then play it as fast as possible. That's what it was. And so, what I ended up doing was I found two different piano teachers.

One that taught the basics, like, hey, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna really want all ten fingers, eventually, so let's learn where they go. But he hated that, hated that lesson. And the other one that would show up and say, what song do you want to learn?

Mm

do you like? And he could barely play it, but that was way more interesting.

And so we, we went back and forth between those two teachers and until he slowly was building the skills and a lot of kids like this, where they, they see their dream and if they can't get to that level of proficiency as quickly as possible. then it's immediately frustrating to them, right? So a lot of kids who are learning how to write are like this, especially if they're big readers, like your science fiction reader, they want to be able to write at that level.

So when they write in their third grade level, they're like, this is terrible

Mm hmm. I must be a terrible writer.

I'm a terrible writer. Look at this. I wouldn't want to read this. Who'd want to read that? And so the judgment is that they're comparing themselves to somebody who's been writing for decades and has sold 47 books or something like that.

And. But just saying those words also doesn't help, right? Because they're like, well, I don't care. I still feel that way,

Well, yeah, and I tell I I use this a lot because you know I'm just a movie person. So when we're in the hard part at the beginning I say this is the montage guys This is the part where the person just like Rocky decided he was gonna do this fight and then it's boring to show you that 12 weeks of preparation he did so we're gonna play some fun music and we're gonna make it two minutes And the problem is in real life.

There's just not a way to skip it Like you have to do all of the stuff so it's like we're in the montage guys This is the boring part But we have to do the montage to get to the part where it's interesting Because all media skips it and I don't blame them because how would you make a movie interesting if you showed Rocky just doing sit ups?

for like three hours like you have to Make it go faster. But at the same time, it seems like the person was just decided, I'm going to be a rock star. Montage. Boom. I'm playing my first performance. And unfortunately, there's no way to speed through that.

So you're, that's genius. And you Like an interesting idea just popped into my head and we use this when it comes to cleaning But I think that you could use it is basically like make your own montage meaning And people can do this visually or you could do it through snapshots you could do it through like setting up a we do it like we have tripods everywhere because my husband's a Photographer and so if there's like a big cleaning project or organizing project now, they do it on their own but they will like set up a time lapse and record themselves

Oh my gosh. My kids would love that. Oh my

funny. It's fun and it's funny and then they just, they super stay on task because it would look weird if somebody disappears from the frame for a long time. So they're just like running all over the room

I am writing this down. This is a great idea.

It's super fun. And then you can also do, like I do before and after pictures, like if I have a particularly, I hate cleaning, and if I have a room that's just disastrous, I will take a picture of it, the most embarrassing, like ridiculous point, and then I'll spend however many hours it takes cleaning it up, and then I will have an after photo, and I will share it with my friends, and be like, look at what

like this for this afternoon,

Totally,

but I did it! Oh my

it feels good.

So he could even do, he could do an audio ver, I'm trying to think like how it would play to guitar. Like he could be like, okay, this is my first time trying this song, blah, blah, blah. You know? And then just every week do a one minute recording of that same song and make his own montage. I don't

Oh my gosh, no, my kids are like all the ways they can try to find to be some kind of YouTuber. Like if we kind of tried to sell it as that. My eight year old all, all day yesterday was trying, trying to come up with his own, uh, he wants a YouTube channel. So we're trying to figure that out. So I want to talk about your book, The Unflustered Mom.

And so I actually have like anxiety, not just one type of anxiety.

I hear you.

I have diagnosed anxiety and, but I still got a lot from reading the book and I think as we talk through it, like you and I talked offline before, I love all the tips. I think they're all great, but sometimes it's like I'm doing all of the things, but then, you know, I don't have any control over my tricky kid completely like just exploding.

So while we're going through the things that, you know, And this is geared towards moms, but dads, I'm sure  are needing this help too. But it was interesting to me, and it was so, it was so convicting for me because, um, my therapist, I'll be like, I was feeling so panicked, and I sat down to do my box breathing, and it didn't help.

And she goes, Stephanie, you're supposed to do the box breathing. Daily, so that we're going to lower the risk of getting to that point. And then your body knows how to respond when you do it. But if you only do it when you're already activated,

It's really hard.

and I'm like, Oh, I need to be disciplined. Um, the rest, cause you know, if, if you're feeling fine, you know, I'm not anxious today.

So I don't really feel the need to meditate. Um, and the five types of anxiety was really interesting. to me. So tell me about the five types and kind of how you decided on those five

Okay, so, and I do want to say, like, when you talked about, I, I define those, what your therapist said, as like the prevent, there's preventative things that you can do, which are the daily, which are the once a week, and even multiple times a day, simple, super short things. And then, there are the in the moment things, like, holy mackerel, I just was triggered, or I'm feeling really anxious, or I'm feeling really frustrated, or I'm feeling really angry.

Um, and I have one minute or I have 10 minutes or maybe I have 30 minutes to deal with it. And so in the book and in most of my work, I, I differentiate between, you know, here are the types of things you can do preventatively to raise your emotional bank account so that you can deal more easily so you're not like on your last thread, right?

All the time. And then here are the things that like You've already done that or you haven't or whatever, but you got triggered regardless and what do you do now? So so I like to share those and so what I can do is when we describe each of the five anxiety styles I can maybe give one or two tips specific to that one.

Does that sound good

Okay. Yeah, sure.

Okay, so we have the lover the fighter the executive the visionary and the dynamo Those are the five styles and they're based loosely on Maslow's hierarchy of needs So if you remember back to like You know, if you took psych 101 or in high school or college, they often talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

And it was this famous paper that was published in like 1941 or something. And, and he talked about there literally being a hierarchy, like first people are going to be worried about like, am I safe? Like, do I have food,

I have food?

And then it goes up to like belonging and security and all the way up to like.

Self actualization, like, am I achieving my life's purpose, right? And basically, it's like, you're not really in that mode if you don't know what you're gonna feed your kids this week because you have no money or, you know, or you have no shelter or you're not safe because, you know, so, um, So it's based loosely on those and I say that because the five anxiety styles are not a hierarchy There's no one that you're like looking to move from and get to the next one.

Like they're just more like personality traits or Like the five love languages where it's a it's a tool. It's a framework so that you can say oh that's why I was really triggered by that and my husband like was fine. It was no big deal. Or he was actually excited about that and I was like, what, hold up, this is actually not good news.

This is stressing me out big

Mm hmm.

And so it's, it's a tool that you can use to help a couple of things, understand your emotional triggers, better meet and manage those triggers when they come up. Um, also it's a tool for acknowledging like where you shine, the things that you're really good at. And because a, I think it's.

It's always great to have that opportunity to acknowledge and celebrate your strengths because I think that's something that a lot of parents don't do. Um, and know that. With that, like not everybody can do that. Not everybody has those gifts. So like when you expect everybody to be as organized as you or be as in the moment and really listening and paying attention as you or be as, um, you know, visionary as you and have these like grand dreams and ideas and like, wow, these like thoughts of how you want to change the world, like.

Not everybody might have that same style as you and so let's celebrate those aspects of you And also let's maybe be a little bit kinder about expecting other people to have those same gifts They have different gifts, right? So like let's acknowledge yours and maybe we can find a little bit more Self compassion and compassion for other people who are maybe not wired that same way So, um, and then each of them has kind of an overall life lesson.

So this is something that's like not going to be solved overnight. But if the strategies that I have in those chapters that are specific to your anxiety style are helping you move down that road to, um, and, and, and a lot of them have to do with like self worth, self value. Like how do you, how do you right now perceive your, your self worth and your own value and If it's happening in a way that serves you, that's really healthy, mentally and emotionally, then awesome, let's keep doing that.

And if you're doing it in a way that's maybe not serving you anymore, chances are it probably did at one point. Like I think all of the things that we do that maybe feel self sabotaging now, probably developed for a darn good reason.

Well, it's interesting because you talked a lot about just, um, language matters. The words you choose to use matters. What your, your inner thoughts are. And um, I'm, I wrote down, I'm the dynamo visionary lover. I mean, I kind of, you know, I have anxiety disorder, so I might be all of them, but anyway. Um, but I.

But I think, you know, when I was younger, it's like some people really appreciate the leader and then, but everybody wants to give the leader a bunch of shit. Like, you know, always being the one that speaks up or whatever. But then when there's a problem at the restaurant, they're like, Hey, Stephanie, can you get the manager?

Because whatever, and I'm not going to talk to the manager and I'm like, okay. So I actually, um, work really hard in group settings, particularly if it's like. A weekend thing and nobody really knows me. I try not to barrel in and take over, but usually I get appointed to be the person anyway. Um, but I used to, I think to kind of pull away from that, you know, if I made a mistake or something, I would say things like, Oh my gosh, I'm so dumb.

I did this in this and I'm not dumb. And that is something I think so many people walk around and say, you know, I'm stupid. I don't know what I did. I sent you that email and I didn't put the attachment. Um, Um, you're not stupid, because she didn't. So I honestly have to work really hard for that not to be me saying that when I make a mistake.

It's, it's kind of like I catastrophize it. Like, you know, I'm supposed to be perfect and I didn't do that. I'm dumb. Um, so that was interesting. I wrote that down and then,

catching yourself is the first thing. Catching yourself and even telling a friend, you know, hey, I'm trying to switch my language with this. Um, so that they can catch you. And normally we we start to notice pretty quick. So, like I'm guessing now that you've acknowledged that you probably notice when you do say it.

Also, what's funny is this is and we can catch our kids too. Mhm. And what I teach my kids is it's actually healthier for your brain to say, Oh, that wasn't smart because what your brain hears is smart.

Mm.

It doesn't hear the not. So if you say, um, if you say, you know, I'm not dumb. It's almost better to say, I'm not smart because your brain will hear that word.

It will not hear the, the nod or the on at the beginning. So, so not that I want everybody to go around saying I'm not smart. Um, but I'm saying that's even better than saying that was so dumb. So, like, however you need to trick your brain into hearing, like, if, or say, like, oh, well, that, that was a genius move, and you're saying it sarcastically, like, it's still better than saying, you're so stupid, you know, so, if you're trying to correct the language in your home, you know, you can just shift that little by little, and, and noticing it is the first step, and then, and then you ask yourself, do I really think I'm dumb?

No, I'm not. Like. And, and replace it. Find a word you want to replace it with. Um, in the meantime.

Yeah. And I just think language is so important and the words you use all of the time to describe how you feel matter. So, you know, through years of therapy, I have worked on saying that instead of saying, I'm depressed, I mean, that's a big word. Like, what are we really, really feeling? And so lately I have been feeling discouraged because we are trying different meds for my very anxious.

Sun and when the med doesn't work, it's super duper doesn't work. Like we have a rough 36 hours and, but I, at first I was like, I'm just, I'm so depressed. Well, no, let's like back up, be more precise. I'm discouraged. Okay. Well, what can I do about, I'm a very action oriented person. Um,

a dynamo.

yeah, my therapist was like.

Your check engine light is on because I was like I'm just trying to figure out what to research next like what? Keywords should I be looking at? She's like I would like you to take the day off from researching this and You know because I'm not a psychiatrist and I'm sitting here trying to read like peer reviewed studies about different medications and how they work and stuff and She really was like Give me your attention, and I want you to, like, you don't have to fix this today, like, I want you to go, she was always like, go eat Mexican food, go, because, you know, I'm always, like, trying to be healthy, and then, you know, but, like, a big treat, actually, that week, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, Instead of eating lunch real quick in my car, I went and I sat down at a Mexican restaurant and I ordered all the bad food and even like we get Mexican food to go, if I have queso at home, I use healthier chips than the restaurant chips.

Well, at the restaurant last week, I was like, Oh my gosh, this tastes so much better with the really, with the hot fried chips. But I think,

Okay, so let me, let me jump in really quick because, you know, you gave a perfect opening for us to talk about specifically to the dynamo. So dynamos tend to be very achievement oriented, um, very connected to feeling acknowledged, feeling respected. and doing, getting things done. We tend to um, function and make decisions more from our brains than from our heart or our gut.

Um, this is kind of the default mode. And um, tend to always be very future oriented in the future. What's happening next? What's coming next? Very action oriented instead of in the present moment, just being

Mm hmm.

feeling and tuning in. And, you know, I'll often say, That dynamos, you might know you're a dynamo if you, you know, you have a to-do list and you will add something to, to-do to the to-do list that you've already done so that you can check it off and get credit for that.

Right? I,

I like a physical list because I like seeing it all, you know, yes, I have a steno pad right here. If I'm doing it, you know, like on my iPhone and I complete it and I hit a dot and it disappears, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I need to, well, and also I just need to be able to see like, Cause I'll tell my husband sometimes, and I'm not even raising a toddler anymore, but last week I was like, I don't even know what I did today.

I definitely was glued to this desk and replying to emails and answering phone calls and making lists. But if you said like, what'd you make today? Like what did you, like, I couldn't even tell you, but having the list that I can cross off, I can at least look at it and go, Oh, well I called the cable company and Oh, I, you know, I did these things.

Um, yeah, that's totally me.

Some of the things I recommend will counter or help balance out those. So, um, tools and practices to get in the present moment more often throughout your day. So, like the box breathing. That's a great strategy for getting in the present moment. Journaling is a great strategy. Any physical exercise that takes your full attention.

So, for some people, that's yoga. For me, it's dance. Um, for some people, it's tennis. Whatever for you physically. like gets you out of your head and full on into your body in the present moment because you can't be anywhere. For some people it might be music like so or it might be watching a play, you know, so activities that you can do like that.

Also activities that are um, celebrating your wins because a lot of dynamos tend to be so action oriented that they will Accomplish something and immediately turn around and make the next set the next goal and set off toward that without kind of slowing down and saying, Look what you just did. That's amazing.

Let's celebrate that. So I, for instance, have an accountability friend, um, who is also a dynamo. She's not a mom and she's in a completely different industry than I am, but she's very much a dynamo. So for the past, maybe six months now, um, Every single night on WhatsApp, we leave each other messages and we celebrate or acknowledge three wins from that day, three things that we're proud of or things that happened that were good that we just want to take a moment and acknowledge.

And I'll tell you, Stephanie, there's so many times like I go to leave the message and I'm like, I don't know, nothing. I can't

Nothing. I did nothing today.

right. There's nothing I'm proud of. Like whatever. It was just stuff that I do. And But I take a moment, I slow down and things pop into my head and the thing that was genius about what your therapist said is often it's during those slow down moments when you get out of your head and you get out of the doing that all of that past knowing and doing and researching and learning and conversations that you've absorbed over the past 10 years, they have space to kind of pop up.

So, for you, I would say things like, just write in a journal or before bed, say, God, I would love to, to have a clear answer about the next steps for, you know, for the medication choices and then just be quiet, go to sleep, do a meditation, read, not, maybe not read, but have something where you're, you're just in your body and in the present moment, which is way easier said than done for dynamos and, um, Or take a shower, sometimes being around water, going for a

Yeah, I liked your example because you're in the shower. You can't bring something with you to read. You

But, have you ridden on the shower door?

No, I haven't done that yet.

With your finger? It's, it's a problem, like, oh my gosh. Yeah.

No, I haven't. I have not tried to do that. I have brought a glass of wine into the shower with me before. That started during the

Me too. Me too. Me

I was like, this white claw is portable and it is coming right in here with me.

Yeah, I have plastic wine glasses.

Right. Well, and it's interesting because you talk a lot about the difference between how did you word it true surface self care and true self care.

And I talk about that a lot because, you know, people will be like, Oh, I got to do something for myself today. I went to target alone. And I'm like, no, you had to buy groceries and yay. You got to go by yourself. Like,

And you bought a t shirt, too.

This needs to be like what above and beyond basically. I took a shower, so yay, I'm clean now, or, you know, you took a nap or something, and you go deeper, and I didn't realize this is something that I'm already doing.

I hadn't acted in 20 years, and a television acting studio, um, opened up in Tulsa, and I've started every Wednesday night, I go to an acting class. And I love it and I have to say, I think my, this is from six to nine and I think my husband like looks at me like I'm crazy when I get home, it is the best mood I'm ever in.

I am. Like in the moment and I can't have my phone on or anything the whole time because people are performing and I need to focus or whatever and it is giving, it's like restorative and it can be so challenging to get to the class, you know, if my husband has to work or a kid is sick or whatever, but I have a scene partner usually.

And I don't want that person to not have me there because I'm going to let them down and I need to make sure that I'm doing my scene with them or else they've spent money on the class and they can't even do their thing. Um, but it has. It's been humongous for me to just have, and I'm like, woohoo, I have a whole three hours out of seven days, but it also gives me something to think about other times.

So I'm thinking about maybe what scene I might want to do, or when I'm watching TV, I'm thinking about it differently. It's just activating this part of my brain that I haven't touched or done anything with in a very long time. Um, because. I really think that, especially until your kids are like six, like you're just in it, you're just like white knuckling it.

There's no like, I would like to be an actor. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you're just trying to keep everyone alive. Life has slowed down in some ways. Like, I can leave the house and everyone will still be here when I get back. But that has been huge for me and even though some weeks like I'm leading up to it in tears because I have had to like manipulate our schedule to the nth degree to be there and Some weeks.

I'm like, I just I don't feel like going I'm so tired and my husband's like, you know If you stay here, you won't be resting you will be No rest here

Nobody's gonna be, like, feeding you grapes while they

No, you might as well go to acting class.

I love that he, I love that he said that. And I would say like, for those of you listening, if you're like, well, Oh, I would love to take three hours, but I still have a two year old and a one and a half year old. Um, or that would be hard, a three year old and a one and a half year old. Um, I would say that I call it like, and I don't cook.

So this is a weird or bake. So this is like a weird analogy, but it's, um, you know, have you ever made, um, sourdough bread?

No, I don't have the patience for like having a starter and

people tell me that you need a starter, right? So, you have this like little amount of like yeast and water and I don't know, flour,

whatever the bacteria

things, some bacteria, there's some stuff and you keep that alive.

You feed that so that when you have the time and want to make a whole loaf of sourdough bread, you always have that starter. But you have to feed it. It's not like something you just put in the freezer, like you actually have to keep it alive and feed it every week, little, little, little tiny bit. So what I recommend for moms that are feeling very in it and like the idea of even a Target trip by themselves is ridiculous, is laughable.

Then what I encourage you to do and invite you to do is create a sourdough starter for yourself. And what this could look like to. Like, use your acting as an example is, you know, what this might look like is, you know, once a week, your movie night with your partner is going to be like, like an acting class.

It's going to be like filling that void of like seeing really good acting or subscribing to somebody on whatever social media platform you you're on most who is an acting coach and you just take it in bite sized pieces or like. You know, perusing, you know, like my husband was in the movie industry for a long time and he's still on IMDB and he has like one Facebook group.

That's all these, you know, photographers that are in the movie industry. And so giving yourself little tastes feeding that passion of yours in little tiny easy. Like it has to be easy, right? Time wise, flexible wise and inspiring. So something that's filling that. And what I also like to say about it is Use something that's super unique to you and you know, because then it's most likely to be a true self care thing.

So if it's something that's like, like somebody just told me yesterday, like, well, what do you like to do with yoga? Like I like yoga. I like yoga. It's great. It doesn't fill me up. Like going to a hip hop dance class does.

Okay. Yeah.

even like that, you know, it's just like no comparison. Right. And so. Like I'm going to a heels class tonight called sass and strut and it, I don't know anybody else that, you know, none of my friends circles would go to that.

Like they kind of would want to, but they don't, they won't actually do it, you know? And, um,

and that's the Dynamo thing sometimes it's just like, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. Here I go. Even though it's terrifying. I was terrified to go to acting class. I hadn't acted in 20 years and I was not good at first. I was not like riding a bike. It was rough. It was. Like, I would feel out of body every time I would go on stage to perform my scene and by the time I was done, I was like, I have no idea what just happened.

Like, I did say all of the words, um, but I,

They came out

yeah, the words came out apparently. Um, but I, that was really hard for me because I I really like to be good at everything. So it was very hard to just be like, guys, you guys are in plays all the time. And I can't be in a play. I could not, let's say I got cast in something.

I can't be gone five days a week for like a month rehearsing.

Right. So, it's a tricky one to figure out how to fill that, fill that, um, I don't want to say void, but like, you know, fill that need in you, um, but not, like, yeah, I would love to go back to grad school and get a PhD. I can't, I don't, I'm choosing not to, I'd rather be with my family than, like, to go do that.

right. Exactly. Well, and I, I. Well, and I liked what you're talking about in the book is like take a second to personalize this to you Because I think at some point moms like my kids are old enough now that there's time like Saturday afternoon where they've all run all over the neighborhood and they're not here and I literally am like What do I want to be doing right now?

Because they're not here to tell me what the next thing is. My house is clean, um, there's no one here. And I literally am like, I don't know. Do I want to read a book? Do I want to do a puzzle? I mean, I can't even,

Do you panic? I panic and I'm like, well, I want to do this and then this and then,

well, yeah. And then you get overwhelmed and you're like, I'm just going to play on my phone for three hours until you get here.

So, but it was. I think there's a part of mom brain that gets deactivated or we allow to fade as far as like what are our wants and desires? What do we want to be doing? And in, in my world, the husbands came, seem to keep going, you know, they're trying to find their things and do their things. And I was

We can learn from them. If you're really pissed off about that, excuse my language and resentful, take a moment and just be like, are we mad? Because we wish we could do what we wish we could carve out. Enjoyment the way that they are really good at and what like, what would you be doing if you were thinking like your partner?

And that's a good trick too. And then you'd be like, well, I would just like call my friends and say, Hey, let's go to dinner tonight. Okay. Like, you know, and they

And he doesn't feel guilt at all if he's away on a work trip or so he's a live event audio engineer. So sometimes he's working every night. There's events or rehearsals or whatever. And. He does not feel guilty at all. Like, there's no part of him that even understands why I would feel guilty. First of all, I'd feel guilty because if I were gone for a week, there's more going on for him.

So, I feel bad about that. And then, you know, the kids miss me and it's disruptive. And he's just like, I have to be there, so, you know, we're not going to have an income if I don't go to that. So, and I'm just like, okay, I, how do I, how do I do that? Because I may go do the thing. I am to the point now where when I leave for class and I mean one of my kids like follows me into the driveway like, why are you leaving?

And I'm like, I don't feel bad. This is mommy's one thing and it's good for them to see that I am doing something for me, that I'm that whole person.

the other tip, since we're on this and I know we probably have to wrap soon here, but is, you know, that I see moms do and I've done this and I've learned is when you do take time away and it could be for work, it could be for pleasure, it could be for whatever. When you come back, it's so often that if your kids say, Oh, well, how was it?

What did you do? We will very often say, Oh, it was great. But what did you guys do here? What did you eat for dinner? Blah, blah, blah. We immediately turn it back on them. And so I would caution everybody to stop doing that. And. Go on a positive rant about like, oh my gosh, there was this scene I had to do and I was so nervous about it, but I, and I, because I didn't practice as much as I thought I, you know, wanted

Whatever,

I, it came out really good and it was really exciting and then like, oh my gosh, everybody laughed at this one line that I didn't think they would laugh at like, go on about it.

Let them see you light up about it for two reasons. One is like you said, you're modeling. There might be three reasons. Um, two is, you know, you're showing them that these three hours you just spent away were not for not. They brought you joy. They did all these things because if you come home and you dismiss it, then it's like, well, why does she even leave then?

Why does she even leave if it's not even a big deal? You know, and they also you're training them that that your family life is not about your happiness at all. It's only about theirs.

Hmm.

them. You're teaching them. Oh, no, no, don't worry about Mama's happiness. It's all about you. Are you happy?

Are you safe? Are you content? And that's really not only like creating kind of this narcissistic mentality, but it's also Um, you know, you're you're training them to be a compassionate person and care about what other people what brings them joy and instead of like literally teaching them. Oh, don't worry about mom.

Like, what are you guys? What were you up to? I heard you like, you know, learn something new on guitar. You can still do that but first, first, share with them the joy and even if it wasn't amazing.

Just say it! Yeah!

Focus on the amazing parts and show them that it was worth being mom being away. Look how happy mom is.

I think that's so important because there have been times when I've been like really frustrated with how maybe I am being treated or demanded of from my kids, and I'll say, you know, I am a person, guys, like I'm not just your mother, like I'm a person, you just hurt my feelings, I'm a human being, and I probably should be, instead of just trying to say that, demonstrate that to them in

And it's a process. Like it takes, it takes time, but it's a process.

and, you know, I mean, they're never going to see me as... Stephanie Ferris. I will always be mommy, but it would be nice if, you know, they understood that I'm, I am human too. So I have needs. I'm tired. I remember, uh, like one year on Christmas, like I was exactly, you got to the finish line. Everyone had opened all of their gifts.

I am like, I'm gonna go lay down. And one of my kids goes, Why are you so tired? It's not like you did anything today. And I was like, Oh my God, I don't even know. Like, did you, all the magic that's just happened. That was all this guy right

They're like, that was Santa. What are you talking about?

Right. Yeah, that's a good point. We do. That's a good point. Okay.

So before we have to go, I wanted to bring up a couple of things we already talked about meditating and, um, what I loved was just having your, a plan in place, your emergency support plan. And you even have like a download that you can, a worksheet that says like, these are my triggers and this is. You know, my reaction and this is how I can handle it and what I should do.

Um, because when you're in that fight, flight or freeze and you're triggered, there's no part of you that's like, okay, I should calmly do this.

Alright.

the biggest challenge for people who, you know, are listening to this podcast is usually. Everyone's advice, like all the professionals are like, you have to stay calm when they're not calm.

You need to be calm and it is so hard.

neuro hack? Okay. Let's do this really quick. Okay. So, um, if you're listening and you can, if you're a drive, if you're driving, maybe pull over, but I want you to take one hand. This takes less than 30 seconds. Okay. So take your left hand. flat like a pancake. Um, uh, like you're holding a bowl or something flat and then your right hand and I want you to karate chop across your palm six times as quickly as possible.

So you're going to go 1 2 3 4 5 6 and then you're going to switch hands. So your right hand is flat and down and your left hand is the only hand moving 1 And you're going to go back and forth and back and forth as quickly as possible, only moving the upper hand so that kind of your dominant hand is trading off.

And then I want you to kind of release your shoulders and breathe deeply as you do this. Okay, don't like do it all like with your teeth all grinding. Okay, that kind of defeats part of the purpose of it. And what this does is it facilitates the communication between your right and left hemispheres. So.

So you have a more cohesive brainwave pattern coming when you're doing this, cuz your body's like, oh wait, your left hand, oh wait, your right hand. It's a, it's called a cross lateral movement if you wanna research more about it. But it's basically tricking your brain into a more cohesive brain pattern, which it's not like hypnosis.

You're not gonna forget what just happened, but all of a sudden that visceral panic and reaction and anger that you're having to it, you know it, it will. It will deplete that a little bit. It will relax that because you're, if you're getting your higher brain functions to work more cohesively and you're telling your brain, okay, you know, everything's calm now.

And, um, that is a great way to kind of reset your nervous system in the moment so that you can focus, have a little bit more clarity. Um, things like chewing gum, uh, Um, chewing gum tells your brain, I'm just going to do a couple really quick ones. Um, your kind of Neanderthal brain, um, is taught that if you're eating, um, that you must not be being chased by a saber

Oh, you must be safe if you're

You

here having,

safe if you're eating. So yes, you can eat, but you can also just chew gum because I don't think Neanderthals had gum. So, um, and maybe they chewed on bark or something, I don't know. So it's just an easier way like I almost always have a pack of gum near me and You know and you can chew gum and that tells your brain like hey It's cool.

We're not, you know, you don't need to have that. Your heart pumping, your respiratory rate going up, all the blood going from your brain and your digestive system and your internal organs out to your muscles in your arms and legs preparing you to run. So then you do have more mental capacity literally because,

Well, yeah, the front of your brain is just, has left the building and now you're just all, you know, lizard brain reacting and what's happening is your kid is all lizard brain and lizard, two lizard brains together trying to get through a situation is a disaster

Yeah. It's like a dinosaur movie, right? Yeah. But they're just like

Well, and I, I mean, I joke about this all the time, but I can't tell you how often my husband or I have been like, stop yelling, like, and what on earth am I modeling?

I am yelling.

Well, and the parenting experts will be like, just get down to their level and talk really quietly, which I get that. I totally get it. I get it. So much easier effing said than done because you're viscerally reacting as well. So these are the strategies you could do first to calm yourself down without having to like go on a two hour walk.

Like you don't know who you're going to be like, I mean sometimes yes, you just walk out the door because you're like, I'm going to start throwing things if I don't remove myself from that situation. Once you're out the door or in the driveway or in your car, do one of these cross lateral movements. It's a breathing exercise, chewing gum, like all, put, bring out all the stops, like do all of it.

And

one of the things I'm trying to just work on is just saying, buddy, I need a break. I can't, I, I am getting ready to get very upset. So I'm, and I'll just walk away. I'll even say, I'm not ignoring you. I just can't be in the same room with you right now. And there's mayhem happening and maybe throwing things.

And I have one kid that, You know, even as he calms down, he's still going to like pick up a piece of mail and tear it up slowly while he's looking at me

yeah,

you have to sit there and be like, okay, I hope that piece of mail isn't anything important. Um, and we, and it's gotten better. I, I can't remember where I heard or read this, but it was basically that for your kid, it's really.

Like, when they're out of control, it's really scary if the person who's supposed to be the safe place is not in control anymore. And for some reason, that made me be like, Oh my God, I'm terri I'm terrifying my kid. Like, my kid's already dysregulated and, and he's a big, like, fight person, not flight or freeze.

And he's going ballistic. And then if I can't be calm, how scary is that for him? Because somebody's got to be calm. And if it's not me, who's it going to be? Um, and I really liked the emergency support plan because you have already identified what your triggers are. Everybody's different. So I know we talked a lot about Don Dynamo, but I think, you know, we probably have some executives here that are big planners and, or the lovers that are big feelers and just to kind of go through, it's helpful for me to think about why it is, why am I instantly pissed at my husband?

And it, what just happened would never have bothered him,

right. Right,

to understand why it's, you know, are you saying I'm incapable?

right, right, ooooh.

I did something wrong?

Yeah, exactly. When I have, and the book's on audible too. So for those of you who would rather listen to it, um, it's on audible. And if, if they go to my website, it's just my name, ambertruba. com. I have all, I have guided meditations specific to each anxiety style. I have the EESP, the emergency download emergency.

Um, what is it called? Emotional support plan. Downloadable and a bunch of cool like bonuses like that. So if you get the book and you just go to my website and you say like, Oh, you know, we put in your anxiety style and Oh, there's a quiz too. So if

I love quizzes.

go to flourish quiz. com and, um, and take the anxiety style

Yeah, when I saw that there was a quiz, I was like, yes, I love a quiz, like a personality quiz, like even though I kind of know exactly where it's going. I still, I just, I made my, I made my husband do it. So that, that was fun. And I also think parents who are raising tricky kids. And they're sitting here going, I don't know what to be doing.

I really, I, first, first of all, I wrote a digital copy of your book. I wish I had a physical copy of your book. I was actually in the pool because my kids were not bothering me and I had my Kindle and a steno pad that I

I love

my hands and make my notes so that I wouldn't forget. But a physical copy would be a great idea so you could actually write in the book.

But I just liked, like, I'm literally like, if someone would just tell me what to do, I can, um, Do it. And I like that you laid out some plans and they're, they're not one size fits all there for different types of personalities. And, um, so I love that. I really liked your book. I'm going to be spreading the word.

So

thank you so much. I appreciate that. And I'm so glad you found it interesting and helpful. And you know, that's my main, my main mission.

 📍 awesome. Well, thanks for being here today, Amber. It was nice talking to you.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And, uh, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Thanks. You too.

 Thanks for listening villagers. If you want to check out Amber's book, you can find her website at amber trueblood. com and true blood is spelled T R U E B L O O D. I'll also have the link in, um, the description for this podcast, wherever you're listening to it today and the quiz.  📍 is flourishquiz. com. You can find our book on Amazon.

You can download it. You can listen to it on Audible or you can actually buy a physical copy. Um, I recommend the physical copy. I personally wish I had a physical copy when I was reading it because I wanted to flip back to all the different things that I found really helpful. So. I probably will be purchasing the physical copy anyway, so, and don't forget that she's got the downloads on her website as well, where you can kind of focus on what type of anxiety style are you, how are you activated, how can you handle your activation better in the future?

Um, anyway, I'm very action oriented and I loved a rubric for how I can be handling my  📍 stress better. So anyway, thank you for listening today, guys, and I will see you next week. Bye.