Yep, that's right. You know that sound. It is Scott Temp Pesta here with you. We're doing another Sailing Anarchy podcast, but I guess you already know that because you probably clicked on the link to the podcast, so I don't really need to tell you what you're listening to. But I really don't have anything else to say That's not true. I've always got something to say. Uh, we've got a great guest I'm gonna get to in just a second. I mean, this is, this is a cool story, which I know only about as much as probably anybody else does, which to say isn't very much except for the guest that's about to join us. Um, before I jump into that, I, I just wanna do a quick follow up on my Hobi 33. Yes, indeed. I did sell it. Yeah. And it's going to a little, uh, harbor just north of where we are called Oceanside Harbor. And, uh, so it'll be close by. And, um, and I gave up my slip at the yacht club. I cleaned out my locker. Uh, I got nothing there. I'm now a senior life member, which means this. I pay no dues so that it means I'm old and then I've got rid of my slip and I got rid of my locker. And when you do those things, you become, you can apply to be, and I think they just rubber stamp it even for a cook like me. So then I'm senior life or something and I can use the club. I have a charge account, all that stuff. No problem. I just don't have to pay dues anymore. So. Um, that's a little update there. And it's good because between the slip and the dues and the, you know, the stuff, it is like 1200 bucks a month. And so, yeah, since I'm not into it at the moment and I won't be for the foreseeable moments, you know, that's, that's kind of where I'm at on the Hobie 33, as if I haven't talked to you guys, uh, enough about any of this. But let's get to what really is happening. So you all know the Catalina brand, right? I doubt there's anybody who hasn't sailed on at least one Catalina in their life. I mean, you know, assuming that you got a few years under your belt. I mean, they are probably, I think, I think it's very safe to say the most successful, uh, west coast builder production boat builder, um, ever. And, um, you know, that was, I mean, look how they, who, who, Catalina has outlasted, you know, Cal. Ericson Islander Ranger, uh, Columbia, uh, that about covers it. And so they've done something that is like mind blowing. So you all know like the, sort of the new breed of, you know, a right around 50 feet, right? Plus or minus. And then, you know, right up to 60 and whatever, all the new like. You know, the Hans and the Bentos and the Genos, you know, they're, and even the more higher end boats, that they're really good looking. They're super, you know, wide stern and they're clearly intended to be, you know, mostly cruising boats. But some of'em have a little bent towards performance. And I think more and more are getting that way because they sort of realize that the, the standard versions of a lot of those boats are just doggy. And, uh, so, you know. You gotta pivot them out with a tall carbon rig and a few other things to make'em go halfway. Well, and I, I think the, uh, the boat that we're gonna get to it probably doesn't need any of that. The, the new boat that Catalina's doing is the 48 and joining us on the podcast is indeed the designer of that boat bill Trip. Hey Bill, welcome to the show. Hey Scott. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. I mean, this is, you know, this is kind of mind blowing. I don't know what I'd like to know actually what responses have been that you've gotten from people like. Catalina's doing what? You just, you just drew a what? Right. It's gotta be a lot of that. Correct. Yeah, we have a, we have a, an awful lot of that. And, uh, one of the things we love is the idea that there's an American builder who is going to address what we think has been lacking in, in, in the marine sector for a long time, which is a good sailboat again. Um, and we love the European sailboats. Absolutely. But not having an American brand doing it is, has been, we've always felt like they're a bit of a black eye. Um. We got a call from, uh, Mike Rearden, uh, who was thinking about buying Catalina, and he said, if I buy it and these are my plans, would you, would you design a boat for us? And we said, um. Said, absolutely. He provided it's a boat that we wanna get on board when it's all done. And, um, you know, we started with, uh, talking about whether we can infuse the boat so then it can be high quality and high performance at the same time. When I say high performance, I mean from a, you know, a cruise eraser, uh, aspect. Right. Of course. That it's something that is well put together. It's not gonna come apart. It's something you can go at it. You can go to Bermuda in or wherever you wanna go and not feel like, um, it's, the boat's a little too edgy to be out there. And we've had great success with all of the boats that we've done that have been infused. Mike's done that before and, uh, Patrick was running. The shop is definitely on board with that and that that starts a virtuous, uh, spiral. So we started start being able to design a, a boat that will be a fun boat to sail, so it won't be a doggy boat. So did, one of the things we don't wanna do is go into, um, is go into the weeds with a, with a boat that is something that looks nice but doesn't sail nicely. Um, we really don't wanna be associated with that. And the Catalina brand has been a long time for people who actually use their boats and, you know, we're not afraid of saying to them that, look. A more performance boat's actually easier to sail. It takes less sail to go fast. And we think that's what performance cruising ought to be about is going fast with a minimum effort. And that segues into being able to do maybe some distance racing. Nothing too serious. We're not. We're not trying to, uh, we're not trying to conquer the world with this boat. We're really trying to do a boat that's high value and that you own it and for 10 years later you look back at the boat and it doesn't look like an old boat and it's still something fun to sail. So, um, did you we're also, we're also able to put a carbon rig in the boat, which, um, which happened of late and that's kind of amazing what that does to, um, to that virtuous spiral. So we have more time, more. Spend putting a quality interior in, and we're not trying to cut corners on, on saving weight. Um, feels like it's all the boats coming together nicely. Did, did you have a prior relationship with Mike Rearden? I've known Mike for a long time. Um, I knew him from, um, from his days when he was building, uh, uh, building boats with, um, with j and j, the 65 footers. Um, 65 footers, 80 footers in Europe. I sailed with him some on, so Daddy, and then he ran a, or helped organize the 76 footer that we did. Um, so we worked with them pretty closely on that and came from a, so. He's seen it all. Um, I mean, anybody who buys a boatyard, uh, you could say, um, he's not risk averse, that's for sure. And, uh, yeah, and, uh, you know, God bless him for doing it'cause there are very few people that are doing it and it's so nice to have something that's not private equity. He's coming in and, you know, putting his, you know, his money down and saying, okay, I'm gonna gonna try to make this, make this work because people fight harder for it. Um, so we've got a, we've got something right now that I think will be, uh, potentially gonna be a really good project. Now, where, where will the boat be built? Who's the boat's being built in? Largo, Florida. Okay. So sorry about your California, uh, intro, but, uh, afraid those, those yards left. They sure did, didn't they? Yeah. And Catalina didn't, I mean, they left, but you know, the others went out of business. Catalina didn't. Yeah. Um, yeah. Well, they, they, they moved and they survived. And, um, you know, we've been working, uh, with a fellow, Michael Schmidt, who's another innovator in, uh, Germany with, um, with the Y So one of the guys he admired the most in the industry was Frank Butler. Um, so, um, when Michael bought, um. What Frank had started, I thought, well that's, you know, if there's a company worth looking at in the US this is probably it. Um, and so we're, you know, we're looking to produce, um, a, um, I would say it's a mid-level boat. We're not trying to do a swan boat. We're not trying to do, um, a low end boat either. I don't want to insult anyone, um, by, by naming names. But we want it to be a boat that if somebody looks at us and says, you know, can I sail this thing, um, offshore? We say, yeah, absolutely. This will be a good, it will be a good safe boat from, um. Uh, quality of construction and then I'll have limited positive stability and all the things that make a good sailboat. And fortunately that's where performance and safety go together. That, you know, there's nothing like a low center of gravity on a boat to make a boat fast and easy to sail ex. Exactly. So how far along are you guys in the process? Um, well, we'll start molds and now that we start at a clock, we're doing two versions of the boat and we've got one design and we're designing the second version of it right now. Um, so that, to make sure that we don't, we don't have conflicts of three inches, so the mash should be, should have been three inches forward so we could have opened the door, that, that kind of thing. Um, so we're. We're doing a, um, a single level deck, house boat as well. Um, I think you reviewed the boat. We did Alchemy once, um, was, um, sort of a Southwest, um, 53. Yes. Um, and there was only one bill who was built, uh, the hull was. Was built by Hinckley and it was finished by a broken boat yard. And it's a really fun boat. Um, you know, it's a really nice boat and it's, uh, that client came to us and said, listen, design me a sailboat that will keep me from getting a powerboat. And, you know, and that was that whole single level cockpit through the living area where everything all public, living on the boat was done, uh, with a view and without having to climb down in the boat. So we're, we'll do a version of that. Um, there are a few that are done in Europe. There are none that are done in the US and we know we can make the boat sail well because, um. Duncan who owns a boat, actually races a boat and he's won more than a couple of races with it. So, and not a, you know, again, it's not a serious race boat, but it is a boat that does have, um, it looks like a motor sail, but it has the giddy app of a normal sail. Right. That's what I was just gonna ask you. You know, the pictures that I've seen, and I think everybody's seen are the one with the super low house, and I don't believe there's any windows in the house itself. And, and then the other version. Is going to have a, a significant house on it, correct? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll be for, they'll be for really two different clienteles, you know, the somebody who wants to have the boat, uh, up in. Say the Northeast and then, uh, down in the Caribbean and, you know, may do a little sporty sailing and he'll want the boat that you've seen so far. The, you know, the sexier boat is more the, the coupee for sure. And we're doing a more sedan version, uh, of the boat or an SU maybe better set an SUV version of the boat. Right. But we, there's no reason that, that, that won't be a nice boat to own as well. I'll, I'll take the, thank you. Um, yeah. And, and so. When you guys, I mean, certainly you guys have, have looked at the market and done a fair bit of market analysis and you know, where these various boats that you will be competing with, either directly or indirectly, you know, where their price points are, you know, what the demographics are of the people that buy those boats. And so I, I'm wondering, so I, I've always admired Catalina. I mean, I, I just have, it's hard not to and. Um, so this boat, though, is clearly stepping out of what anybody would ever think of as a Catalina from a marketing standpoint and a, and a price point stand, uh, standpoint. Do you guys, I don't know where you're planning on coming in. I, I don't, you don't necessarily have to say, but I'd like to know if you guys have a number in mind what it will cost. Well, I think you'll have to speak to Mike on that. I don't wanna, I, I know what it, what it is and I know it's, um. I know it's competitive, but I'm not gonna put a final number out there because that's what everybody will Absolutely correct. Yeah. But do, do you guys feel like you have to be, do you guys feel like you have to be slightly less expensive than some of these other boats? Well, we think the boat's gotta be, um, the boat would definitely be north of, um. Of a beau, but when you put on the tariffs of the beau and what's happened to the euro, Ooh, um, things may, may actually be closer than, um, than when we initially set out. We, we know that gap has already closed because this all started before, before tariffs. I mean, we're. It's been, this conversation's going on for, for quite a while. Um, there are, you know, there are companies that we admire. Um, you know, the company, one of the companies of all that I admired was CNC. Um, CNC was an innovative company, you know, in the beginnings of composites, the same way that, um, that Catalina was. And they went for quite a while. And, um. Then ownership changed, people died, and um, it kind of got lost in the weeds. But that was a really nice family cruising boat that people could take out and do sporty things with as well. And I think that's a little bit what. What our idea, but our, you know, it's a modern boat, but you know, Catalinas, when they started, they were modern boats too. Um, and you know, the, go back to some of my father's boat, like the Columbia 50, when that boat came out, people said to my father, what are you thinking? Are you crazy? You know, with that, with the house and the spade rudder and, you know, the boat was wide and had high freeboard and. And when you look at it now and people say, oh, it's a classic. It's a classic. Exactly. Yeah. You know, and that's, you know, but you gotta take those steps, you know? And when he started designing for Columbia, Columbia looked one way, and when he was done, it looked another. And I think, we'll, um. You know, Cal was the same way, and I think this is a historic company, but it, you know, it's, you know, it's not a pine box. You know, we don't wanna just fill it with the same dirt. Um, we, we wanna make something new here. Yeah. And to do that, we've gotta. We have to change the design. And we actually looked at some more conservative designs, um, to make sure that we could do something that would sort of hit the market. And then we said, well, how about this? It does all the same things that that other more conservative vote does, but it, it's got more eye appeal. So yeah, more curb appeal. So that's something that really helps sell a boat. And I think particularly when people. Look at the boat and say, well, it's pretty good looking, but what's it gonna be like down below? And then when they see the interior layout that we able to put in it, they're gonna say, oh no, this is exactly what Catalina has always represented. You know, it's in, in a very modern style. Yeah. And that's key. And you're right. I mean, listen guys, especially women are too, but you know, men are really visual and you know, whether it's cars or boats or women, you know, we, uh, we, we are, something catches our eye and like, Ooh, that looks good. And I gotta say, as soon as I saw the drawings, I wasn't really sure it was you guys. I'm like. Well, shit, that thing looks pretty good. And then I found out that you guys were drawing it or had drawn it, and so I, I wanted to talk to you guys about it. Let's get back to the, let's get back to the Columbia bubble doghouse. Okay. Speaking of visuals, I thought, I mean, I was young, but you know, those things were in full force in like the Long Beach area and. And I thought it was awesome. I always loved that house. And, and the fact that you, that your dad applied it to virtually every boat, you know, the, the 43, you know, the, I think it was a 39 or something, uh, that even down to the 26, they all, they all had that. And I just thought it was such a great design cue that nobody else had. Um, what. And that came from some production boats he'd done even earlier that were built in Holland. And, um, there's a, a group of boat called the Mercer 40 Fours that, um, I swear they only go at, uh, state sales. You buys one of those boats and, and you can't buy'em until, you know, until they've, until their names get crossed off. Right. And it's the same, basically the same house as the Columbia. But um, I know Tobin Grail owns one of the Columbia fifties and his boat is Cherry. And at the time my father didn't think the Columbia fifties were so well built. Um, but you know, that was in 1965 and Tobin's boat. Looks perfect. And Jim Grundy's got one, uh, called Gron and that looks perfect also. We've got a couple really nice ones in San Diego. Um, really nice ones. And there's a, um. There's a really cherry cow 48 for sale that's been, it's been on the market for a while and I've seen, and the boats just look so, so well done. And, you know, these things, I mean, these boats, let's not even get into the Cal 40. That's a whole nother thing. But these boats have, have stood the test of time in, in almost every area and, and the visual aspect is part of it. These, the, the CA 48, you know, first of all, there's hardly any of them and they just. They're just a good looking thing. And you know, I think it's just slightly north of a hundred grand is what they're asking. And I'm thinking, damn, that is a lot of boat and a, and a, a nice piece of history. So it's, yeah, that's a great place to go. Spend, uh, half a million. I didn't say that. No, you did not say that. Um, and, and so. In terms of like when, so you guys are gonna do, start the molding. Do you guys have a time period for, you know, when you think a boat will actually, and I know everybody would ask this rather obvious stupid cliched question, but say, bill, when's the boat gonna launch? You know, well, we're gonna, we're right now aiming for the, uh, for the fall boat shows, uh, to have the boats in the fall have the first boat. Fall boat shows, uh, next year, you know, so sailing, sailing before that, um, you know, the tooling will start, uh, in two months, in a week, um, two months and two weeks. And that's kind of a three month process. And you know, then, and then that'll be another, um. Know, four months till the first boat comes out, uh, you know, the first boat will come out. But it will be, you know, it's, it comes out and it's actually still kind of a machine instruments'cause it's where we learn all the assembly pieces for the boat and how to do the process engineering, which is how you, these days, it's how you build a boat effectively is the process. Engineering is so important. Is it'cause that, I think that's a foreign phrase to most people. Yeah, well, you've gotta design the vote so it goes together and you have to figure out how to assemble it so that the whole vote is when the vote comes out of the mold, the rest of the vote is pretty much assembled and. You put all the pieces together and it goes out. Um, and we've been, you know, we've worked with them with a master recently on that, and the guy said, Catalina are masters also. So it's kind of interesting comparing the notes on the two of'em. And the biggest difference is the, is in infusing the boat. Um, and I was just had dinner the other night with one of the guys from, uh, semen, composites who, who invented it, and they're, they're gonna help us with this. Tell us a little bit about that process. Well, what, what they've got is a, it's a, it's a pressure system where you have, um, a mold that's airtight and then you use a vacuum bag, but you lay all the laminates in and you use a, uh, a spray adhesive to hold the laminates in place. And you put the core in place again with the spray adhesive, and then you put in, um, the. The inside skin and you've, you've given channels in it, um, usually holds through the, uh, through the foam to allow the resident to travel from, um, the outside of the skin, through to the inside of the skin. And you, and you pull it out, you pull you, you suck it in from the outside, scan and pull it out through the inside scan. And the whole boat is covered in resin. Um. And you end up with, uh, something like a 60%, uh, fiber to resin ratio, which is really high. Really high. Yep. And you end up with something that's fully saturated with epoxy. So you don't have d laminations like, um, like the, which has been the bane of production, boat building, and it's been the bane of, um. Um, warranties as well. Yeah. Which then that becomes a cost problem and it's an owner headache. And, um, since we started building, uh, boats that are resident f those problems have gone away. That, but you know, by and large it's, there's still a skillset involved in it. It, it's quite a, it's quite a process. And it, I mean, it sounds like the, you, I mean, it sounds like the boat's gonna be definitely a quality product. I mean, you guys, you really can't come at this with anything other than that approach. I mean, you're, you're new to the market. It's a lot like cars that, um, that even if you go to the, go to a low end car right now, low quality just doesn't, doesn't cut it in the market. You know, you can't have a boat that falls apart. No. You can't have boats that run around and the pans separate from the bottom of the boat. You can't have something that. That isn't a working structure from, from the beginning, and then it's really a matter of fit and finish. Um, so, but the quality has to be a given or you're just not gonna survive in this, in this industry. Right. Everybody who's gotten gotten their game up, and that's where design comes in because, you know, there are cars that I know are well built, but I look at'em and say, I just don't wanna own it. I know it's a good price and I know it's well built. You know, I just have no interest in driving that around. Um, I want something that's got more performance and, um, and it's also something I like looking at. You know, you need, you need sizzle with your steak. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt about it. And, and, and the segment you guys are targeting here, I mean, there's a, a fair number of really quality builders there, uh, for some of these boats. And so, you know, you guys sort of have to do that. This can't be. The old Catalina, uh, in a new, uh, package. This has to be the new Catalina in the new package, and I'm impressed. When, um, when will you guys open up the order books? Um, well very soon. I think they're already opening because, um, we've, you know, there's a, there's a pretty good, uh, I would say latency of people who. Haven't had a Catalina for a while. Who do want, would love to have a new Catalina. And there's a good deal of network already in place and they've all got clients and you know, they. I think they're gonna sell a lot of these boats and the feeling is there's gonna be no problem getting this off the ground. Um, that there are buyers out there already lining up to build, to build the first boats. And then we'll see, you know, if we do what we, and if they do what they think they can do, um, I think this is gonna be good and we're gonna do, we're gonna redo the whole line for them. Oh, that's awesome. No kidding. Uh, you know, and that that dealer network of Catalina, I mean, you've really tapped into something there because, you know, there aren't, I mean, look at, look at their customer base. It's just ginormous granted in smaller boats. But like you said, there's guys who want to, you know, Jay Boats the same thing. A lot of guys started with smaller jay boats and as they kept building bigger J boats, people, oh, I want the bigger one. And, and we. We like small boats as much as we like big boats. You know, we've done some very big boats. We've done some very small boats and, you know, they're, they're really of equal interest because smaller boats have more impact, uh, on more people's lives. Yep. So, yep. You know, that's why we love doing them. You know, there's nothing we like better than watching a kids sail a boat. There's no doubt. I, I'll tell you, I spent a better part of a couple years teaching. Uh, a girlfriend had a sale on a Harbor 20 and you know, have a girlfriend. Not now. I don't. She dumped my ass. How dare you. You prick. Okay, this interview's over. Forget it. This boat's gonna suck. Drip. Can't design. Ah, Hey, come on. Don't be so thin skinned. Come on. Stealing anarchy. I gotta do, I gotta do a little research on you. I'm gonna find your thin skin somewhere. Okay, good. But, but you know, the boat was just a delight to sail. I mean, just, you know, the boat was a, I thought it was fabulous. Easy to sail. You know, you really felt the boat'cause it's small and you know, it was a great boat and I think I like small boats like that in that size range. I know Jay Boats tried that with this, I guess the seven or whatever and you know, various companies have. But yeah, that's cool that you guys have the same sort of attention. To the small as the big and, and just the idea in the bigger picture, bill, you're doing the, you're gonna do the 48, but then you're gonna revamp the line. I mean, that is really something. Well, I hope I'm, Michael and I have just started talking about it, but I'm hoping we're gonna do some trailer sailors because, um. What's, what's more fun than having a 25 or or 32 foot boat that you can, you know, you can take home for the winter and you can just say, okay, road trip and we're going to wherever you want to go, we're going, we're going up to, um, we're going up to Washington and we're gonna sail on, we're gonna launch a boat and go spend a week sailing around the islands. Right. You know? Right. Not, not to mention the fact that slips. At least here in, in SoCal, they're virtually impossible to get. They're really expensive if you wanna slip your boat in the water. So, you know, not to say there's a lot of dry storage space around San Diego either. It's a very odd community here. Just in terms of the things that we don't have. When you think San Diego would have it all, like we don't have a, we don't have any real racing boats anymore, and there's nothing new that comes into town. Um, it's the same old courses, you know, there's no, been, almost no attempt. To make, you know, trailer sailors give them places to live outside of a yacht club. And, um, so, you know, that end of things really needs revamping, probably not only just here, but I'm sure other areas. Um, I think that's great. So before I let you go, I'm, I'm, I'm Googling you to find out like, oh, I didn't know this about you. Let me, let me throw this on the air. No, I'm kidding. Um, I'm sure there's stuff out there. Oh, oh. And don't worry. Yeah, there's a picture of me from, uh, Doug Peterson's, uh, in 1978, which, um, um, you could probably find me in the office at about 1130 at night, uh, drawing like mad with a, with a Heineken bottle in my elbow that had just been delivered from the Chart house of, of course, you know, I got to be really good friends with Doug. Uh, I actually lived in his house for a while and, uh, just, you know, I couldn't have loved the guy more. I mean, just, yeah, me too. I think everybody feels the same about him. So what I expect from you, from me not releasing this information I've just found about you on the internet now, I don't know if it, you are the same built trip that's guilty of these things, but let's just assume that you are. So, um, rather than me releasing that, um, I expect an invite to go sailing on the early boat. I, you know, once you guys get some stuff out and you know, I, I wanna come out and sail on the boat, dammit. Okay, great. Well, we, we'd love to have that happen and we, you know, we've got other votes for you to come sail too. So True. Well, yeah, I'll make a, I'll make a, uh, week out of it, say all your votes. Okay. And criticize all them. No, I'm kidding. Hey, bill, really informative. Thanks so much for the time and, uh, we will stay in touch on this thing, right. Absolutely. Sounds good. Okay. Thanks for, thanks for the interview. You bet. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. All right. Build trip. I mean, that's a trip. Oops. Sorry. I just turned the mic up. That's cool. I mean, it, it's sort of what I was looking for in terms of like, so what, what are you doing here? Like, he did a magnificent job of explaining. Exactly what they are doing and what they plan to do. I mean, who knew that Catalina would be the brand to keep your eye on? I think it's great. All right. Listen, let me just say this for you. Oh, and I've gotta talk to you about something we, right? I mean, we're gonna, we're gonna sell some stuff here, and what I'm gonna sell are sunglasses. You guys, you know who Tajima Direct. You know that company. They make the custom polarized lenses. They can do prescription, they can fit any frame you have. They have frames they can choose from. I mean, there are a lot of polarized sunglasses. I mean, I could walk into seven 11 right now. And get a pair of, uh, you know,$19 polarized sunglasses. Eh, not quite the same quality. These guys are a cut above, no question about it. Um, you need to go to their website and I'm gonna spell it out to you. It's tajima direct.com. Do that for Sailing Anarchy. I'm Scott Tempesta. See ya.