Your pet hates (and it's not pets)

This week on the podcast we are talking about YOU.  At least, we are talking about your pet hates, as defined by our highly unscientific and totally skewed poll on who irritates you most in your strata scheme.

The poll is on the Flat Chat home page and you can see the results when you vote. Sneaky way to get clicks?  Not really.  We simply don’t want to influence your choices.

Also we have a look at what’s happening – or not happening – at the Balmain Leagues Club site where plans for a new block have been put on hold again (but, it seems, for a good reason).

And we check out a report that renters could have saved thousands of dollars – or even have been able to find somewhere to live – if a critical planning restriction had been eased just a little.

Finally, there’s our Lock Up & Leave – a designer cabin in the bush that’s just far enough away from civilisation. Race you there!

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Flat Chat is all about apartment living, especially in Australia.
Find us on Facebook and Twitter and the Flat Chat website.
Send comments and questions to mail@flatchat.com.au.
Register to ask and answer questions about apartment living anonymously on the website.
Recorded by Jimmy Thomson & Sue Williams; Transcribed by Otter.ai; Transcription tidied up and sensified by Raphie.
Find out more about Sue Williams and Jimmy Thomson on their websites.

Transcript

Jimmy Thomson  00:00

We're having a bit of an experiment today.

Sue Williams  00:01

Oh yes; what's happening?

Jimmy Thomson  00:03

Well, we're trying a new headphone system, which sounds a bit echoey. 

Sue Williams  00:08

Well hopefully, it's okay. 

Jimmy Thomson  00:09

We'll get to the end. But we've also got a cooler; an air cooler. It's not a refrigerator; it's not an air conditioner. It's based on what was called the Coolgardie fridge, which is basically soaking a bag in water.

Sue Williams  00:28

A hessian bag, I think.

Jimmy Thomson  00:29

And when the water evaporates, it cools down everything inside. Well, this is a machine that has the same principle and actually works. And it's not very noisy (we hope), because otherwise, you'll be listening to it right now. Today we're going to talk about some of the interesting results from our current poll (which is the fairly negative); who do you hate most in your strata scheme?  And that's thrown up a couple of interesting entries and we're going to talk about what's happening in the Balmain Leagues Club development (or what's not happening). And we're going to talk about this fantastic way that you can save hundreds-of-thousands of dollars on a new apartment, which sounds pretty obvious to me, but we'll have a look; we'll have a chat about that. I'm Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review. And I'm Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain and the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age and the AFR.  And this is the Flat Chat Wrap. 

[MUSIC]

Sue Williams  01:42

So what did this poll turn out? This was a poll of Flat Chat readers? 

Jimmy Thomson  01:45

Flat Chat readers. They clicked on the poll; I think they had 10 options of people that irritate them most in their strata scheme. 

Sue Williams  01:53

Were you number one?

Jimmy Thomson  01:54

 I was not on the list, for that simple reason. I didn't think of putting on the list 'people who do polls,' So right from the get-go; right at the top of the list, there were two outstanding categories. One was strata managers...

Sue Williams  02:15

Who doesnt like them? 

Jimmy Thomson  02:16

Some people don't like some of them. And the other one was smokers, balcony smokers.

Sue Williams  02:24

Oh, my god, are we still getting balcony smokers?

Jimmy Thomson  02:26

Its interesting because the laws, or the way the laws are implemented and interpreted are changing. And there's been a lot of cases recently where people who smoke on the balcony, or even people who smoke inside the units are being told not to, by tribunals.

Sue Williams  02:44

Can you stop people smoking inside their units, if it's not bothering anybody else?

Jimmy Thomson  02:48

Well no, not if it's not bothering anybody else. That's the key to this.

Sue Williams  02:53

So if they've got a child in there, I can understand they wouldn't be allowed to smoke, maybe.

Jimmy Thomson  02:58

Oddly enough, Child Services, would have to be involved in that. If they've got children, they shouldn't be smoking in the house anyway. But they changed the law recently... They were talking about nuisance; there's a law in strata that you're not allowed to cause a nuisance to other residents, or even guests in their homes or on common property. And then they changed the law a couple of years ago, to include smoke from smoking. They were very specific about this, because there was a scare-campaign, fueled, it has to be said, by Fair Trading, that said "this means you won't have barbecues on your balcony anymore, because of the smoke (which I think would be a good thing, but anyway, that was never going to see the light of day). So they made it quite clear that this nuisance could include smoke from smoking. Now that has opened up...

Sue Williams  03:50

Inside your house.

Jimmy Thomson  03:53

No, smoke, drift...

Sue Williams  03:55

From inside to outside...

Jimmy Thomson  03:57

From your balcony to somebody else's.

Sue Williams  03:59

I can understand you can't smoke on your balcony because of drift, but you were saying you're not allowed to smoke inside your apartment. 

Jimmy Thomson  04:05

If you smoke inside your apartment and open the windows and that smoke drifts into somebody else's apartment or onto common property, then that would count, as well.

Sue Williams  04:13

Or if you have an air conditioning system that pushes out your smoke into other apartments, which has happened before...

Jimmy Thomson  04:15

Yes, indeed. So more and more people have been challenging the smokers in their buildings. And the smokers have been told that they can't do it any more. 

Sue Williams  04:32

Does this count for vapes, as well? 

Jimmy Thomson  04:35

I'm saying yes, but I don't know. I mean, this is where the law falls behind society. But we had a reader who wrote to us and she was really good; she kept us up-to-date with what had happened. So she assumed that there would be a bylaw in her building when she bought into the apartment, that said you couldn't smoke on your balcony. I don't know why she would assume that, but she did. Then she gets to the apartment and it was all fine, until new people moved in next door to her. And they said quite clearly "look,, we we smoke a lot, and we smoke on the balcony" and they said  "I hope that's okay." And she said "well no, it's not really." And they said "I and my daughter have asthma." And sure enough, these people started smoking like chimneys, and the smoke was coming not just onto her balcony, but into her apartment. And she had the choice then, do I close all the windows all day while these people are smoking? So she went to the committee and said "look, here is what the law says. This is a nuisance. Can you do something about it?" And their response was "get a life." Oh, that's mean. And gradually she felt other people in the building being turned against her, that the smokers had kind of gone "it's un-Australian to stop people from smoking," and stuff like that. So she took them to tribunal and they got a lawyer who subpoenaed her medical records. Can you believe this?

Sue Williams  06:13

Oh, isn't that awful?!

Jimmy Thomson  06:15

These animals, who were so determined to inflate their smoke onto other people; they got a lawyer to demand... The subpoena was granted to see her medical records, which she found (as anyone would), deeply distressing, because there was stuff in her medical records that had nothing to do with asthma. As you can imagine, it got very, very bitter and very, very nasty and very, very expensive. And then right at the last minute, the people said "okay, we won't smoke on the balcony." So it inflames passions, smoking, so-to-speak. No pun intended. The people below us (naming no names), every so often, especially when they've got visitors, they put bloody prawns on the barbecue, and the stink from that is like, chemical warfare.

Sue Williams  07:14

Sure. But smoking is much, much worse, because they do it very occasionally. Smoking happens all the time and is really bad for your health.

Jimmy Thomson  07:25

It's bad for everybody's health. 

Sue Williams  07:27

I guess burnt prunes aren't great either, but it's not as offensive. 

Jimmy Thomson  07:33

It's been scientifically proven, that second-hand smoke will damage your health. So it is a nuisance, and it is nasty. It's funny; you get into a lift in an apartment block and you think "oh, somebody has been smoking in here." And what has actually happened is a smoker has got into the lift and the pong from their clothes stays behind. Well, as reformed smokers, we're hypersensitive. But I wonder if smokers knew how much they stink, would they still keep smoking? I mean, we spend so much money on deodorants and perfume and whatnot...

Sue Williams  08:16

I wonder if that is the thing these days? In the old days, everyone smoked, so nobody really noticed at all.

Jimmy Thomson  08:22

I wonder how people would react if you said "oh, you're a smoker?" "How did you know?" "Because you stink." People might be offended.

Sue Williams  08:29

I'd choose the person you say that to in the lift very carefully, Jimmy! A lot of people go to the gym.  

Jimmy Thomson  08:30

Especially in a confined space. The other bugbear in strata is the strata manager...

Sue Williams  08:49

I do feel sorry for a lot of strata managers. I mean, there's some awful ones out there, there's no doubt about that. There are some really good ones as well. And the strata manager is the person we always blame when we have problems in strata, I think, and sometimes that's quite justified and sometimes it's quite unfair.

Jimmy Thomson  09:07

I'd say most of the time it's unfair. We've got very good friends who are strata managers, and we've got a strata management company that sponsors this website and they have been terrific; really good. They communicate, they listen to you. They try and solve problems before they happen; all that sort of stuff. But then there are people out there who are just a money-making business and they're advertising for new recruits. 'You come along and you can make fabulous Commission's on all the Schedule B charges that you issue.' That's got nothing to do with helping the community. It is possible to be a valued member of the community and make money; they're not mutually exclusive. Strata managers, you know, you say to them "what about embedded networks," and they say "oh, yeah, it's terrible, all these things with stormwater drains and electricity and stuff." And you say "well, why did you promote that in this new building? Why did you put that on the agenda, that it should be approved?" "Oh, well, you know, that's what is expected of us." Really? Maybe it is, but you're in a position to change things. Why don't you change things, rather than just going "when do we get our check?"

Sue Williams  10:24

And maybe that's expected by developers, but it's certainly not expected by strata residents.

Jimmy Thomson  10:30

New strata residents don't even realise it's happening.

Sue Williams  10:34

And they kind of look to the strata manager for guidance and assume that it's going to be quite level-headed and fair.

Jimmy Thomson  10:40

And I got really annoyed last week, because I was reading a story in the Herald and it said that 'Strata Community, Australia represents owners and tenants.' 

Sue Williams  10:49

Oh god, that old chestnut? 

Jimmy Thomson  10:51

I though "when will people learn?" and I actually called the journalist up, or I emailed her and said "look,, this is wrong." And she said "well,, it depends what you mean by represent." Well, I usually use the Macquarie Dictionary meaning of represent. And I think OCN got onto her in a big way, as well. But you know, when these things get into newspapers and get online, they just get repeated and repeated until people think they're true. I've done a big thing on the website this week, about why Strata Community Australia does not represent owners or tenants. And for the simple reason, that it doesn't even represent all the strata managers. So how can it claim to represent tenants? Come on!  Tenants are represented by Tenants New South Wales, in New South Wales, represented by the Tenants Union. Apartment owners are represented by the Owners Corporation Network, that's all you need to know. 

Sue Williams  11:52

I guess strata managers, some of them, have got a bit of work to do, to polish up their reputation a bit. 

Jimmy Thomson  11:58

I think they're going to be under pressure this year, because the government is changing the laws, and they're targeting strata managers; they just haven't told the strata managers this yet. But they're really looking at some of the guys. I mean, one of our readers managed to get a statutory appointment of a strata manager, only to do the normal strata management jobs, not to take over the whole running of the scheme.

Sue Williams  12:24

That's a good idea. 

Jimmy Thomson  12:25

But they were getting rid of a strata manager who had been sacked from four other buildings, for being totally incompetent, and potentially corrupt. And guess what? Another member of the tribunal made that strata manager a statutory appointment in a 5th building. So he had total control. The committee is sacked;  he makes all the decisions for the building. And you think, what are these people at the tribunal doing? I mean, are they even looking at the history? Are they listening to owners?

Sue Williams  12:58

I went to one of those hearings (with the person you're talking about), and they didn't actually look at any references, or anything like that; they just looked at where that person had served before.  Not even really their record; they just kind of took people on the one side saying "oh, he's a great bloke." And on the other side saying "he is an awful bloke."  Not really looking at any of the proper evidence. It was really strange. I mean, given that this was the only NCAT hearing I've ever been to, so I'm not very familiar with how it works. But it didn't really give you much confidence in the whole process...

Jimmy Thomson  13:33

it's kind of irresponsible, that they're not taking the care, if they're about to sack a strata committee and give one person, or one company, full control of a building, you'd think they'd look into their references and their past history, just for a couple of seconds. So I can understand why strata managers are so high on the list of people that you don't get on with, because they are the people that you are in most commonly likely to be in dispute with, over something in your building. That doesn't mean to say they're wrong; it just means that they're in the firing line. Other people who were high on the list were by law-breachers and  rogue parkers were pretty high-up, as well, but that's fairly obvious. When we come back, we're going to have a quick chat about what's happening in the former Balmain Leagues Club.  

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

There was a headline in the paper the other day, that really caught my attention 'The Cursed Apartment Block,' it said. I thought "which one? Which one are we talking about now?" And it's the Balmain Leagues Club. What is it; 15 years that it's been...

Sue Williams  14:58

At least, I would think. That's the one at Rozelle, isn't it? On that huge road? 

Jimmy Thomson  15:04

Well, Victoria Road, but that would be a lot quieter, or will be soon when the new tunnel goes through. change. Apparently, they were all set to go. They closed down the Balmain Rugby League Club. They were going to use the land to build an apartment block and a new club. And then it all went pear-shaped, for a variety of reasons. They didn't get approval for the size of thing they wanted and people came and went. I think Benny Elias, the rugby league player, was involved in it Don't say his nickname! He was involved at some point, because he was a Balmain player, I believe. Anyway, they got a new developer already to go and then the government changed its its policy on building permissions and low-cost housing. I think the developer has gone "oh, if I change my plans, this is going to be a much more economical project for me."

Sue Williams  16:03

So he wants to build higher now; is that right? A couple of stories higher?

Jimmy Thomson  16:07

I don't know. But he is certainly looking at incorporating low-cost or affordable housing into the scheme, which wasn't there before, which is going to give him some sort of advantage. And you kind of you think well, it's good that a developer is taking government policy into account, but it also feels a little bit opportunistic, doesn't it? 

Sue Williams  16:31

I think the government desperately wants something to happen to that site, because it's been such an eyesore for such a long time. And it's been so embarrassing for a lot of people, because at one point, that land was going to be bought for the new road, wasn't it? And then they changed their minds. So the whole thing has been moth-balled and then brought back into the light and then moth-balled again.  It's an indictment.  An image of failure. And so I think the government will be very keen to have something done to it very quickly. The developer is probably quite happy about that, too.

Jimmy Thomson  17:09

Except that they're now redrawing their plans. So the whole thing has been put on delay again.

Sue Williams  17:15

What a shame. Because it would be a good place to live. I mean, for apartments; it's very close to the city. 

Jimmy Thomson  17:23

I don't think the people of Balmain and Rozelle are terribly keen on it. Because they like their little cottages and their twisty streets and their inability to park. 

Sue Williams  17:35

And their pubs. 

Jimmy Thomson  17:37

They've got some nice new developments down by the water.

Sue Williams  17:41

That's right.

Jimmy Thomson  17:45

Alright. 

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

Another thing that's come up in the paper was the apartment tweak that could have saved renters $1,800 a year?

Sue Williams  18:08

Yes, it's quite an interesting story. But it's an interesting twist on a story; a good intro. It's basically saying that Sydney's renters would have saved $1800 a year, if the average apartment complex built between 2017-2022 was just three-storeys taller. Prices could fall by up to 40%, if enough stock was introduced into the market. So this is a New South Wales Productivity Commission report and that's the result they discovered, which I think is quite clever. It's a great way to It's a great way to appeal to developers. Or people who want to buy houses, or people who want to rent a home. 

Jimmy Thomson  18:49

Really? I would have thought we were talking about a completely different story, which was one where you could save a lot of money on buying your apartment, if you bought a two-bedroom apartment, rather than a three-bedroom, which  seemed kind of obvious. These Productivity Commission reports always come in too late.

Sue Williams  19:12

Too late for what?

Jimmy Thomson  19:13

To do anything about it. It was 2017-to -2022. Yeah, great! Thanks! Let's get in the time machine and go back and fix that now. 

Sue Williams  19:22

What they're saying really is that it's an indicator of why we should actually act now and build greater density in areas closer to the Sydney CBD. We're starting to do that more now; we're starting to build greater density around rail hubs, and transport; bus stations, things like that. But we need to do it more quickly. 

Jimmy Thomson  19:42

Well, you've got the NIMBYs. And there is no one NIMBY other than Fox News... You know their 'idiots after dark section,'or whatever they call it. They're saying that this is overriding all the carefully constructed planning laws that have been in place for the last thousand years or whatever, and how dare Chris Minns even think about putting apartment blocks near nice people's houses? 

Sue Williams  20:07

Did you read that Mayor...

Jimmy Thomson  20:09

If I could just finish, because I don't want that to go on the record. And the fact is that it's not overriding planning rules. It's just telling them they must consider....

Sue Williams  20:22

And then did you read about that mayor saying that dual occupancy on properties would turn Western Sydney into Calcutta?

Jimmy Thomson  20:33

I think he's got a perchant for exaggeration. Backyard cricket-which I have not seen being played anywhere for the past 30 years- suddenly, it's going to mean the end of Australia as a dominant force in world cricket,  kids won't be able to hit balls into Granny's greenhouse.

Sue Williams  20:58

It's interesting. When I was a kid, we used to play backyard cricket. We had a little tiny backyard. And we had to play it with a really soft ball, because it would hit windows and smash windows. And it would go into neighbor's gardens and we'd have to try and climb over the fence and they'd have a dog and it was just horrendous. And if there had been a good park nearby, which usually with an apartment building, you're always going to have a big park nearby, if it's planned well. If there was a nice park nearby, that allowed ballgames, that would be fantastic. That would be a much better solution really, because then you can play with other kids and other parents. Everybody can kind of bundle in together. But we had a park; we had a grassy bit at the front, which had a big sign saying 'no ballgames.' You need proper planning. 

Jimmy Thomson  21:50

That's why England are so crappy at cricket, because Basildon Council said 'no ballgames on the grassy bit.' There's so much nonsense around trying to prevent buildings at all costs. The one thing that is going to solve the housing problem, and that report that you just quoted actually proves, that if we allowed more high-rise buildings, we would have more housing, and that would solve go some way to solving the housing problem.

Sue Williams  22:27

That's right. I mean, it's not as if people are going to be forced to live in the upper levels of these buildings, either. I mean, we've got a friend who lives in a really high building, really close to the top, and she actually loves it. Some people do love it, because they get incredible views; I wouldn't like it. Some people wouldn't like it so much. They prefer to live low down, and some people like living on the ground floor, or very close to the ground floor. So they can just walk down the stairs and get outside quickly. I mean, we're all different and we all like different things. The beauty of an apartment building, a well-planned apartment building, is it can suit all sorts of different personalities. And there should be something there for everyone. 

Jimmy Thomson  23:06

I mean, a lot of people get freaked out by the fact that we're on the 15th floor.  I think I found it a bit high when we first moved in, and now it's just feels normal.

Sue Williams  23:18

But our friend, I think is she's on about the 21st floor of a building, and that does feel high, but then that would feel quite normal afterwards. And she does have extraordinary views; she does have lots of parties. 

Jimmy Thomson  23:30

Yes, not all of which we get invited to. When we come back, we will be looking at 'lock up and leave.' 

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

I think we've got a cracker this week.

Sue Williams  23:57

Oh, yes, where is it? 

Jimmy Thomson  23:58

It's in Tasmania. It's a cottage and while it kind of looks very modern, very designerly, it's quite close to Richmond, which is quite close to Hobart. So you're handy, therefore, to Mona and the restaurants and cafes. But it's just lovely; kind of isolated. It looks suspiciously like a shipping container covered in timber cladding. I think I'm doing a great disservice; there's a picture of it on the website. I thought as soon as I saw it,  I could go there and finish my novel. 

Sue Williams  24:38

Is this one set in Tasmania? 

Jimmy Thomson  24:40

The new one is set in Kiama; maybe I should go to Kiama. 

Sue Williams  24:44

You could; probably more sensible. So how much is the one in Tasmania?

Jimmy Thomson  24:50

I don't know. You've got to write to them, because it'd be a different price at different times of year. 

Sue Williams  24:57

It would be nice going to Tasmania for a few days. Peace and quiet; fresh air. It's probably not too hot down there at the moment, either.

Jimmy Thomson  25:04

I wouldn't think so. Anyway, this is our 'lock up and leave' on the website and on mildrover.com. I would check it out; maybe we shouldn't tell people to check it out, because we might want to go there. That's enough from us for one week; we've covered a lot of ground. And next week, we're going to have the people you like in your apartment block, because people say I'm a bit negative, but they're wrong! Thanks, Sue. And thank you all for listening. We'll talk to you again next week. 

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

Thanks for listening to the Flat Chat Wrap podcast. You'll find links to the stories and other references on our website flatchat.com.au. And if you haven't already done so, you can subscribe to this podcast completely free on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or your favourite podcatcher. Just search for Flat Chat Wrap with a W, click on subscribe, and you'll get this podcast every week without even trying. Thanks again. Talk to you again next week.