Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
Empowering Leaders to Forge Pathways to Peak Team Performance with Dan Haakenson and Emily Morrison
Unlock the full potential of your team as you tune in to our conversation with the dynamic duo, Dan Haakenson and Emily from Haakenson Consulting. In a world where teamwork is the lifeblood of every successful enterprise, we dissect the key elements of leadership that drive high-performance cultures. We dive deep into strategies for taking a team's pulse with tools like the Team Assessment Report and reflect on the past year's evolution in team dynamics, preparing you to navigate the leadership landscape of 2024 with confidence.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights on the subtle art of nurturing trust and the profound impact it has on fostering open, meaningful dialogue within organizations. As we grapple with the challenges of talent acquisition and the critical need to support new managers, you'll learn why investing in the growth of your people is not just good practice but an essential strategy for organizational resilience. Dan and Emily highlight the transformative power of creating an environment that not only supports but celebrates development, ensuring your team is well-equipped for the challenges that lie ahead.
Finally, we zoom in on the tactics that maximize team success and the development of individual members, including the innovative 'feed forward' approach. Discover how to understand your team's current state, the importance of alignment with business goals, and the necessity of clear communication in fast-paced environments. Dan and Emily share their expertise on predictive tools and strategies that can optimize team dynamics and reinforce the importance of trust and empathy. With these valuable takeaways, you'll be ready to steer your team toward a future of sustainable success and development.
Connect with Dan: http://linkedin.com/company/haakenson-consulting
Do initial interviews within an organization. We do that as an external organization, but that can be done internally. There are tools and resources. Another one that we use through our connection with the network, the table group, patrick Lencioni's organization. We'll do a team assessment report, but get a clear snapshot. This is what I would say is the tip. Get a clear snapshot of where your team is and where your people are. Get a clear snapshot of where your team is and where your people are. Get a clear snapshot of where your team is.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone to today's Scaling with People podcast. I'm Gwyneth Ruecker, your host and founder of Guide to HR, and I'm excited to have Dan Hawkinson, as well as Emily, here with me from Hawkinson Consulting, and we're going to be talking about mentorship and leadership. Dan, introduce yourself to the audience.
Speaker 1:Thanks, guinevere, glad to be on the podcast and to be supporting what you're doing in reaching out to CEOs and startups and the support that you do. So thanks for the important work that you do, and Emily Morrison and I are glad to be here today talking about Hawkinson Consulting and connecting with your clients in a way that hopefully adds value to them. So I started Hawkinson Consulting and worked together with teams to help them maximize their teamwork effectiveness and to maximize the success of their organization. Emily.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hi, my name is Emily and I currently run a lot of the business development side and marketing for Hawkinson Consulting. I also got my master's in organizational psychology and have worked at companies with good and bad cultures, and so I'm passionate about creating spaces for people in their work where they can thrive and where workplaces can be thriving.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, welcome you guys when Dan, you're talking, obviously, but the thought came to my mind teamwork is the dream work. Is that kind of like a slogan that you guys live by?
Speaker 1:Love that one. That's so good a slogan that you guys live by. Love that one that's so good, bonavere, the way that we often say it is the success of your organization comes from the strength of your team. The success of your organization comes from the strength of your team, and we work with companies from all different types of industries. People sometimes will think about that dynamic of you know, even in a sports analogy or something. It's not just the individual players that you have that make the success of your team or your organization, it's how the team functions and works together. That really is key for the success of your organization. So that's where what really drives us is we want to help your organization be more effective, and that success of your organization comes from the strength of your team.
Speaker 2:So, as 23, we say goodbye to and hello 24,. We're already into it a few months here. What have been the trends in 23 that you've seen and helps your customers deal with, and what do you think are going to be the trends for 24?
Speaker 1:Great question, guernibar. There are so many right, I mean and I would love to hear even you speak to this as well, because I know the work that you do you see so many trends. I would say two trends that come to the top of my mind again out of many, many, many, but two trends that were big in 2023 is when organizations, particularly at the leadership level, were lacking really the strength of the characteristics and behaviors of really being cohesive as a leadership team. When we talk about being cohesive as a leadership team, we think that is built on the foundation of trust. We think that trust, then having a strong foundation of trust, really leads for teams to be able to have the real and honest conversations we sometimes call it passionate, unfiltered debate.
Speaker 1:Can a team really talk about the real issues? If they can't, if they don't have a foundation of trust, they won't be able to do that. If they won't be able to do that, they really aren't bringing the best ideas to the table, having the honest considerations and really driving the organization forward. So a lack of really strong cohesiveness in team dynamics would be one thread that we've seen and been dealt with in a big way in 2023. And another issue and it's been stated far too often but it still is real is issues of employee recruitment and intention getting really good people and keeping really good people for organizations, and I think one of the things that. So we're working with some organizations where that's very specific for what they're doing and organizations are struggling with that and there are. We love helping organizations in that regard. So I'll pause there. Emily, do you want to add anything in that regard?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, one thing I love what you had to say and one thing that I would add to even the trust of teams.
Speaker 3:Trust requires people and organizations to demonstrate a level of vulnerability and I think sometimes, a lot of times in business and in the corporate world, what we can see is people are like, oh no, we don't want to go there, or kind of might think that that's kind of getting into a super touchy feely realm, and I think that that's something that we want to agree with.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to be touchy feely In fact it probably shouldn't be in the workplace but we can reach real levels of trust through vulnerability and that can even look as simple as there being intentional time set aside for teams to come together and ask questions that get to know you more. Even ask such simple questions like where'd you grow up, how many siblings did you have, who is someone that you admire or look up to those are things. Simple questions that we've seen can really connect teams and, like almost have one person with their coworker, gain a new level of just connection and build a deeper level of trust between people just by getting to know each other a little bit more. So that could even be a way that organizations could implement and start to build that kind of trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to double down on that. I feel like it's also about being vulnerable and not in your weakness, right, and when you don't know what the answer is, having a culture of I don't know, but let me get back to you, right, instead of this, oh it's blah, blah, blah, and hope you're right, or hope nobody, you know, calls your bluff in that moment, right, but be able to say, let me get back to you on it. Like having that culture that accepts, like not everybody, nobody knows everything, and even like I'm hitting my two decades oh my gosh, hide the gray hairs and you know like I still every day, I still learn something new, now more and more on business front stuff than HR, but there's still a lot of things that are changing and updating and improving on the HR front too. And let's not even talk about the AI change of our life, right? So you're always constantly learning and thinking through different things differently. So I think creating that culture of it's okay that you don't know, just let me know, and that you and let me know when you're going to get back to me on what you find out and and or let's talk about who can who can we come together as a team to figure this out, depending on the process and the problem, right.
Speaker 2:So for me I see a lot of trend in regards to just leadership and management and mentoring and coaching on the management, the frontline, the middle manager, that sandwich employee population. It just seems to me I mean, I even look back at the beginning of my career, seems to me that companies haven't figured out a way to set people up to be successful managers, more leaders, the first time they start managing someone it's almost like you know, hey, oh, they're good, I see person, they're excellent at this, they'll be good at manager. No, that's not the case. Just because someone is good at producing whatever it is they're doing in an individual contributor level doesn't mean that that can flip the script and be good about managing and leading a team. And I think a lot of companies forget about that and leave these poor managers out in the cold to figure it out and then wonder why the team's not doing well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, those are great comments, bonavere. We do a lot of work with organizations where they bring us in to do training with managers in that regard. Two things that come to mind for me in that regard maybe even for just this conversation but maybe also for all of the listeners to be thoughtful about in those regards is, I think the thriving organizations of today and moving forward into 2024 are organizations that are intentionally cultivating a culture of development, where they're intentional about developing their people. And we know and you probably might even know better than we do, guinevere, in all of your work, all of the statistics that are around what happens when people don't feel like there is an opportunity for development for them. But that development does not just mean we're taking here. You were a good individual contributor, now we're giving you the title of manager manager and we're having given you people to manage. There's got to be some development to help equip them for, empower them for the role there. So we do some trainings in those regards.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I really see as a critical opportunity for organizations in these regards is, as people are moved into the levels of middle management, having the team have real ownership and buy-in from that level of middle managers. Some of the organizations that we've worked with even in this past year of 2023 and going into 2024, have really had that as an area of focus for them and it's a fantastic opportunity for organizations to say not just here's how we're operating in maybe a cohesive and a clearly aligned way from our executive team, but how do we get real buy-in and ownership and drawing the best out of our people who are those mid-level managers? It's far too many people who are really smart, really great level executive level leaders, leaders. They bypass that and they're missing a massive opportunity if you miss really linking in with those mid-level managers, hearing and drawing upon their voice and their input and ideas, but also then getting that cohesiveness and together collaboration that comes from having the buy-in organization at that level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Middle managers. To me. I look at them as like they are the oil of your machine, your machine being your organization. They are the. They are what keep, they're the glue, they're, they are what keep your employees engaged, productive and moving in the right direction to make the company goals. So why are you not double downing on this level of people, right? Mckinsey came out their State of Organization 2023, 10 Shifts Transforming Organizations article and it said 39% of the respondents who completed the survey, out of seven countries, are planning to leave their job in the next three to six months, and the reason is behind lack of career development.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Good Right on, as I said. I said you probably have better. I mean, I know I've seen so many of them, but that's just that indicates things. So I mean again, just as a real story, I'm working with a brand new CEO who just started at the very end of 2023, end of December. What are your plans for creating a culture of development? I know there are people within the organization that I've other, even executives that I've been doing coaching with who are saying I'm thinking about leaving. I'm actively looking for other work because I don't know that there's going to be a pathway for development for me here. It's exactly like what you're talking about. So this is our little shout out to all of them who are listening Be intentional about the ways that you're developing your people and your teams. That's. It's so important, so valuable. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the L&D function within the HR world just doesn't get enough credit.
Speaker 2:They're usually one of the first groups to be cut and when it time when toughs are time, when when times are tough and uh, you know, at the end of the day it's.
Speaker 2:It may not be easy to say, hey, spend this much money, the person goes to training, you get an roi of double the amount.
Speaker 2:Right, it's not an easy calculation like that, but at the end of the day, that's what is happening. You are spending so much more money on having to replace the person, losing their knowledge and experience and skillset, and then having to go out and find someone which some of these startup companies they're spending agency money on. So that's very costly, right, anywhere between 15 to 35%, depending on role level and what you've negotiated your contract for. And you know at the end of the day then months, weeks, months go by, you finally get the person to start and then they got to ramp up and are they as equally skilled and knowledgeable as the person who left May or may not, maybe they'll be better, I don't know. But like all that time lost, all that productivity lost and because you didn't want to spend two to five grand a month a year for somebody to get some training. Is that really, like you know? Is that really the right way to go from your ROI? Probably not.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And not not to mention, just to comment on that, like, not to mention, if this, that cycle continues and then training's not given to that new person who's hired, like it's a cycle that continues, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I can't tell you how many times I come into an organization and I'm like there's no off onboarding, Like there's no like handoff from the prior person if there was a prior person, right. Like most of the time I'm coming in and I'm like okay, well, we got to do an audit to figure out what you guys have and what you don't have to even start talking about the strategy and roadmap of what we need to accomplish, Whereas if you have that person stay in place, you don't lose that continuity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, so good. Yeah, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 2:So what do you think is going to be the trends of 2024 from an employee engagement, training, leadership perspective?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what have you already?
Speaker 2:seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you know just one thing to just comment on it, something that everybody is talking about you mentioned as well just the ways things are continuing to evolve in the world of AI and all that it's happening.
Speaker 1:And I really think that, in terms of trends going forward, organizations that, of course, just to state the obvious organizations that are able to skillfully and appropriately use the resources that are there in those technological ways, is critical. But what I would really get to is organizations that are able to optimize on the human component, I think really will have the competitive advantage, because there are so many other tools and resources available by way of technology and otherwise. But there is still that hunger in individuals. And, to go back to that statement that we said earlier, the success of your organization comes from the strength of your team, and people want to be a part of a team, and teams are more effective than simply a collection of individuals, and I think that's just a real piece for organizations to continue to be looking at as they move forward. How do we maximize how we work as a team to leverage our effectiveness and the tools that are at our disposal, including AI?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true. Another tool that kind of fits with the team and employee engagement that my company and I offer is Predict predictive index. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that. It's such a great tool because you can actually understand the human behavior. What is the driver? What are some potential pitfalls between the relationship of the manager and employee? How does this person fit in with the team, what does the team dynamic look like? And all these data sets really help you understand how to engage and interact with your team and your employees and what might be some areas that you have to maybe spend more time on.
Speaker 2:I remember way back in my career I implemented it for one of my employees or my employers, and I had a higher director under me, and so she was one of the first persons I tested this tool on, and I remember thinking, reading this through, I was like, okay, we're going to get along really well, but here were some pitfalls potential pitfalls that I need to be aware of, and one was that you know this individual would definitely like slam through other things to get her agenda processed as a priority and, knowing that ahead of the time, I was able to see it coming, respond to it and kind of cut it off and keep the right agendas in place for the business. But if I didn't have that knowledge I probably would have been totally blindsided by her behavior.
Speaker 1:Yep we Predictive Index is a great tool and resource. We've also been using Working Genius and other types of resources to help teams have a self-awareness and an awareness of their teammates and how the team works together most effectively, including even how projects get done in those aspects. So, yeah, great to draw upon those various tools and resources that are there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes back to what Emily you said about building trust. The more you know about someone and their perspective and their background and why they're saying what they're saying, it helps you connect with them and build that trust Right.
Speaker 3:And exactly, yeah, exactly, and even, and even, to build some empathy right. Like, I feel like sometimes there can be some frustrations in the workplace Like why does this person always do it this way? And and you know, like, yeah, and sometimes even just learning well, this is where they're coming from can help to give a lot of perspective and, from their compassion and empathy and just and just, greater understanding.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that was we can use that in our personal lives too. I know sometimes like my husband and I'll argue, I'm like wait, hold on, let's stop. I just need to know why do you do that, why do you think that way? Like I want to understand where you're coming from, and then he tells me I'm like, oh okay, that makes sense, I was coming from here. Okay, let's like readjust our conversation, like, instead of having a blown out argument because we both think we're right, we're just coming from the two different places trying to get to the same destination and understanding the why or how people are thinking about it or why they're thinking that way, can help you bridge that gap.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good.
Speaker 1:Guinevere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of the other trends I'm seeing for 24, it kind of goes back to a little bit what we were talking about with 23. But for me it's all about development. Like I'm seeing that all over the board. It's career development. This is what people want, Maybe even more so than comp. I'm not, I don't want to double down on that statement, but at least career development. There is definitely a mass focus in all types of orgs, but I'm seeing a lot of it in the startup world, where you know you come into a startup world, you're, you're, you're taking a risk, right? You know, you don't know if that company is going to be here more than a year, or two years or three years. Is it going to? Is the options that I'm being given actually going to be worth anything? And you put all this hard, sweat, tears, time, blood, equity, you know, into it, and so what do you? What do you get out of? That is the career development side. What are you seeing from that perspective?
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things that I totally, 100%, agree with what you were saying. I think Emily and I both see the same that dynamic of the career development piece. Another thought that came to mind and I know some of your listeners on this podcast, guinevere are startups, and that's a part of you work with not just startups, but I know with a number of startups and serve them so powerfully in the work that you do from the HR side, which is so great. But one of the things that we see with startups as well, as startups get moving and are moving successfully, they have more options and more complexity that is continuing to be layered upon them, and one of the things that we see is so vital for startups and for organizations of all different sizes is continuing to reinforce clarity throughout the organization Fundamental questions like why do we exist? How do we behave? Issues of core values, what are the key pillars and anchors of our strategy, what is most important right now? And as startups are growing and developing?
Speaker 1:I think sometimes the leaders of those startups, those entrepreneurs they inadvertently miss the pulse of how, how much people are are on different pages in that regards.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, for example, we go in with organizations and I'll go in with a team and I'll I'll maybe be talking to the leader ahead of time and I'll say, well, how, how clear are you, is your team, on their priorities.
Speaker 1:And the leader will say, well, that we're absolutely clear on our priorities. And I'll go with a group, the leadership team from a startup or something, and I'll say, okay, everybody, take out a piece of paper and write down what is most important for the organization right now. And if it's a group of 12 people, I'll get at least eight different. And I'll say, okay, everybody, turn in, you know, hand me their pieces of paper. And we've got at least eight different things. And when people are lacking the clarity of here's, you know, those fundamental questions of why we exist, how we behave, how we behave, our values, what's most important here's our priorities Then they get pulled in different directions, and so that's one of the things that it's not necessarily brand new, but it's one thing that I think is still very relevant and timely for organizations of all sizes, but maybe startups in particular.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said it really nicely. I'm going to say it my way. I tell founders you got to bring people along the journey. You've been doing this, you've been thinking about it, you take action, you go. You need to bring the people along with you. You need to have them be included in the conversation and let them be part of the journey, not like looking back, going why are you still way over there in a different state.
Speaker 2:We said we're going to go to that state and we're now in this one, like what's going on? Uh, so that's what I see. It ties to exactly what you said. It's, it's I, I think I, I feel like almost every founder I've talked to, I remind them about that, I talk to them about that because it's you can't move a company forward if you're all going in different directions absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah say from time to time is like we want everyone rowing in the same direction.
Speaker 3:You know, like if you have people on a boat and everyone's playing like in all different areas, the boats just go round and round.
Speaker 2:So yeah, or you might have people that are trying to go backwards, so you're not even moving at all, right? I feel like a part two needs to be added to this video right now. So curious for the listeners who are like, okay, I get it. Learning development, career development, I got to put that in place. I don't know where to begin. What's one or two easy steps that you guys would recommend listeners right now just take yeah.
Speaker 1:Great question Again. I'd love to hear from you in that regard, I think for the leaders and organizations. The leaders have to be modeling this themselves what is your own path for development? Again, just as another real-life anecdote Guinevere, one of the places that sometimes we'll start with organizations is doing some initial interviews with leaders or team members. One of the questions that we often ask in there is what needs to be developed in you right now, and more than any of the other questions that we ask, that one gets a pause of. People are like and it's amazing how these are high level leaders, how these are high level leaders. And when the question what needs to get developed in you?
Speaker 1:There are people, how many people will pause and say I don't know and they maybe haven't thought about their own development. On the contrary, those leaders who are continuing to invest in their own development will much more naturally invest in the development of their people. Another aspect in that regard of just kind of quick, like as you said, kind of some specific steps, is if you're doing it yourself, then be looking for ways you can do that with some pretty simple questions. I mean, ask some people that are working for you what would you like to be developed in you? Where would you like I mean, if these stats that you mentioned, even around career development, where would you like your career to be developing? Where do you see yourself? You know X amount of time, whether it's six months or three years from now. Where do you see yourself? Down the road? And being a part of those open conversations with people will really go a long way in adding value and in helping to create a specific path for those individuals moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to take that into a place where you're taking notes that are accessible to both you and that person you're talking to, whether you're doing it simple and free through Google Sheet or Google Document. Maybe you have a tool like Notion, or maybe you actually have a review platform like 15.5, rippling Predictive Index has their own performance management tool somewhere where you're documenting it and then, like having a very succinct, we're going to talk about this once a quarter, once a month, and have that be part of the one-on-one checking in. How's it going? You said you wanted to get here. We talked about here are some steps to get there. Where are you at with those steps? How can I help you? I think that's also another key way of supporting the employees as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, it was a great thing.
Speaker 2:And talking about reviews. So there's a very old article back in 2020, harvard Business Review talking about stop asking for feedback. I mean, this is really old, right, but the whole concept is stop asking for feedback. We don't go, don't talk about the past, right? It's more like feed forward. Or even, what I like about this article is it's advice giving. Can you give me some advice about what I should do moving forward? And it's feed forward kind of advice, and I think that also is very beneficial and helpful for people too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, so as we wrap up. I can't believe it. I feel like we could probably be on here for hours because this is such a fun topic. I feel like we don't even dived in yet Any other last like tips, tricks, tools or just a different perspective that you'd like to share out to the audience.
Speaker 1:You want to start with something.
Speaker 3:Put Emily on the spot. I know, let me think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would. I think, as a tip for listeners is start with there are so many different ways you can do this, but start with some way of getting a clear picture on where your team is. Guinevere you've already mentioned a number of the tools that are out there. We, as I mentioned, we do it in a way where sometimes we'll do initial interviews within an organization. We do that as an external organization, but that can be done internally. There are tools and resources. Another one that we use through our connection with the network, the table group, patrick Lencioni's organization.
Speaker 1:We'll do a team assessment report, but get a clear snapshot. This is what I would say is the tip Get a clear snapshot of where your team is and where your people are. Get a clear snapshot of where your team is and where your people are. Don't assume that you know, but get a really clear and accurate snapshot, a picture of where your team is and where your people are. From there, you can chart a path forward to where you want your team to be. I'll say it again the success of your organization comes from the strength of your team. A strong team is built on the foundation of trust. A strong team is made up of people who are a team that's developing as individuals, not just as a team collectively, but that's that individual and leadership development and those components. But you got to start with a clear picture of where your team and your people are, then chart a path to how that team can strengthen that will serve you and your business and your people in ways that are really just tremendous.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I'll add something just off of that, and specifically Gwenavera, because I know that this podcast is for, sometimes, ceos or leaders of startups, and I think a great, just practical thing to implement are weekly team meetings I guess you could call them, but that's focused on team building or even just connection with the team, and that again builds on the trust and just creating a really cohesive team.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I love that and double down on Dan's comment. I think, too, what I've seen sometimes is you know, I kind of blasted the CEOs earlier like you know, you don't bring your people along on the journey, but there are some that do really good, and then they still have the same issue of people don't know where they're going. And we dive into it come to find the executive team. There might be one or two people who are not good at getting that message downward and that's where it's being lost. So that concept of you know, knowing where your managers, your executives, your leaders are, but then also knowing where your employees are too, and making sure that that message is getting pushed downward, and repetitively too, so that everyone rowing the boat in the same direction and you're actually getting from point A to point B in the fashion that you expect and want it to be, especially in a startup world. You have, you know, very short period of time in which you have funds and money in which you need to do something so that you can go get more money, so you can continue doing something to eventually you get to sell, ipo or whatever it is that you're hoping to accomplish and why you built your business.
Speaker 2:So I hope all the listeners took something away from this. There's a lot of content. If you need further support and help, you can reach out to Hawkinson Consulting or Guide to HR. We're here to support you guys in your journey. We want to see you be successful and with that we'll say adieu. Thanks everyone, thank you.
