Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
Integrating Scientific Principles: Dr. Jennifer Huberty on Business Growth, Resilience, and Leadership in Wellness
Ever wondered how scientific principles can directly impact business growth? Join us as Jennifer Huberty, a fractional Chief Science Officer, takes us through her journey from academia to shaping the future of wellness at Calm. Learn how she built a robust science team, published nearly 50 papers, and navigated the challenges of starting her own business. Jen shares her insights on the crucial role of resilience and the ups and downs of being a CEO, while emphasizing the importance of scientific validation in today's business strategies.
Discover practical advice on integrating scientific principles in resource-conscious settings, even within industries like furniture retail. Explore the benefits of fractional models for accessing high-level expertise, and find out how to align scientific objectives with business goals for actionable outcomes. Get inspired by real-world examples that highlight the importance of asking the right questions to understand customer behavior, and gain a deeper understanding of the complexities of managing people and operations as a leader. This episode is packed with valuable lessons for any entrepreneur or business leader looking to leverage science for success.
Welcome everyone to today's Scaling with People podcast. I'm Gwenavera Crary, founder and CEO of Guide to HR, and today we're going to talk about science and how you can bring science into your business and help grow and thrive your business through science. I have Dr Jen Huberty with me today, who has gone through some amazing transformations at some orgs and now has her own business. Jen, welcome and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yes, I'm a fractional chief science officer, but I started my journey in academe. I got my PhD in exercise science and behavior change and, as I was developing my research career and trying to get myself known, I was doing a lot of research with companies and non-for-profits and helping them think about the way that they're doing things and if it's working. And I realized I was kind of onto something and I had also created my own intervention, if you will, that I was charging people for. So I was always kind of onto something and I had also created my own intervention, if you will, that I was charging people for. So I was always kind of business minded.
Speaker 2:I ended up after you know, like I don't know 17 years. I ended up at calm. So I was doing some work with them and I became their director of science. So I built their team and I was the head of science at Calm for about five years. I left academe for that, so I left a tenure track position and then, after I was there for a while, I was like, wow, I should do my own thing. I had other companies coming to me and saying what are you doing over there at Calm? And I had published almost 50 papers for them and I built their science around their meditation, their sleep, their you know using Calm in a B2B setting. And so, yeah, so I started my own company. So now I'm the founder and CEO of my own company and I have a team of amazing scientists and business manager and a chief operating officer, and we're all just helping companies use science to differentiate themselves and generate revenue.
Speaker 1:So quick question as an owner yourself and then let's dive into the science piece but as a founder and a business owner yourself, if you could go back in time, tell your younger self, as you start to build this business, something, a tip, a trick don't do this, don't make this decision, or make this decision earlier. Whatever it might be, what would that be? A lesson learned moment that you could share with our audience today?
Speaker 2:So that's a really loaded question but I'll say I went into this completely blind and naive too, because I don't. I didn't have a business degree. My business degree was working with the companies I or non-for-profits I had worked with, but really being at calm, when they had 20 employees all the way till they had 300 and they were a unicorn company. Now, who gets an experience where you started a startup from day one, basically, and you end up there until they're a unicorn? That never happens. So that's my business degree, right. So to to start my own company, I was like literally, I'm just like all right, I I literally, the first day, I like put all the things that I had done in the past at calm and other places, wrote them all down on a piece of paper and then I moved them to a website, like I was so rookie but anyway.
Speaker 2:So what I've learned, what I've learned really overall, is, well, I'll be honest about two things. One is it's very it's it's not easy to be a CEO and it's a constant learning process and a constant growing process. And I feel like, luckily, I've always thought of life that way, like how can I do better, how can I be better, how can I use who I am, my strengths, and achieve and do good right, and so I've had to do that within being a CEO, and some days it's up, some days it's down, some days it's up, and so for me it's like learning how to deal with the down days. So I can, you know, and everything that's in the down days brings me to the beautiful things that happen in the up days. So, understanding the ebb and the flow and the roller coaster, and that's that's completely quote, unquote, for lack of a better term, normal. So I had no clue about that.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's one really big thing. And the other thing is the importance of like a team. So I did a lot myself, like I've in September it'll be two years. I did a lot myself the first year and I had maybe one person or a part time. Now I have five or 16 people behind team members behind me, and building my family and my community of of people that work with me has been amazing and it's carried us forward. And so you know there is no I in team, and so, like really establishing who you are as a CEO, like you can rely and you should be relying on other people's expertise. That's their job, and your job is to accept and listen and receive to make your own decision as a CEO, right yeah. So those, I think, are the two biggest things for me.
Speaker 1:I love that. Thank you so much for sharing and opening up your experiences to us. So let's dive in science and how some of the listeners here might be thinking about, or may should be thinking about, bringing in science into their business. So, with your clients, what are some of the trends that you're seeing, that are having them reach out to you and be a good fit in regards to bringing science into their organization?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So right now, a lot of my business comes from LinkedIn. Right now, a lot of my business comes from LinkedIn. So I've spent a lot of time on LinkedIn and sharing my thoughts and my feelings about things I shouldn't say feelings.
Speaker 2:It's more about my thoughts and my expertise about the topic of science and industry, and I think it's something that, like you hear the word science and you think of a beaker or a lab coat or like for those who know about them, a randomized control trial and so, yeah, those things all represent science. But that's not really what science is Right. Like in industry it's about making, like having questions, making assumptions, testing those, but in a real world, setting right. So it can look a lot of different ways. A CEO's role is to like come up with the cool ideas and a CEO wants it expedited and done yesterday and then they want to sell it right and you know, as long as it's sellable, that's, you know, let's get it sellable. But it's like if we kind of combine the the brain of a scientist in that and this thing about testing assumptions and iterating and making it better from what you learn from your research questions and the data that you're getting, then you can do a better job with your product, your content, your service, whatever it is right, because you that you're getting, then you can do a better job with your product, your content, your service, whatever it is right, because you're getting this information at the same time you're having all these exciting ideas. So it's understanding that concept and then understanding that, like science, is a differentiator. It differentiates you and if you're using it appropriately, it can set you apart from competitors.
Speaker 2:But you have to use it appropriately. A lot of times you'll have a scientist like, yeah, let's look at the effects of this. Or yeah, let's. But no, it's not about that. It's about my company's business objectives are X, y and Z. So how is science going to get me to my business objectives Right? So if I want to grow my market or I want to increase my revenue, how's science going to help you do that?
Speaker 2:If you pay me to come in and be a fractional chief science officer, let's say you pay me $10, you're not going to get $20 in return. It doesn't work like that. You pay me $10. You're not going to get $20 in return. It doesn't work like that. But the information that I bring through, whatever I'm doing gives the sales team ammunition for people who are having barriers to say yes. It gives the marketing team something to talk about to their market. Also broadens the market beyond what the marketing team is already doing right. It helps product. It helps tech. It helps is already doing right. It helps product, it helps tech. It helps whatever it is right. So it's really understanding the cross-functional power of it and the fact that it really can differentiate you and then, of course, generates revenue.
Speaker 1:Well, for those founders and CEOs listening, when you say it's a differentiator, like I know myself, I'm like, oh okay, I need to figure out what that really means. So what is a potential first step that our listeners can take to figure out the right approach for their business, whether it's hiring a full-time, hiring, a fractional, or that it's not the right thing for them, I don't know. Is there ever a time where this would not be a fit for a business?
Speaker 2:So I mean, you know that's that's a hard question, like I, it's not very often that I talked to a company where I'm like you couldn't use some kind of a, some kind of science, right, it just depends to the degree, right? If you're a mental healthcare company and you're trying to sell the payers, you better have your science, you better be doing assessments, you better have data, you better have all those things. If you're a furniture store, like I don't know right, like I'm not really sure, right, like I'd have to think about that, but believe it or not, there are ways that those, those scientific principles, can be built into that, right, you know, for companies that need science, of course I'm biased because I'm fractional, but I do not believe that you need an entire team. You do not have to spend the money on the resources. In fact, when you do something fractionally the fractional model as a whole, with, like, financial officers and technology, whatever is like, you're not paying an FTE, you're getting the expertise of a higher level person, right, but like, but at the same time, you're not paying health insurance and retirement and all the benefits and all the things. You don't have to do any of that. So, and it's it's less money for the powerhouse person to be there In my models. Yes, you know you pay for me, you really pay for my team, right, like you're, you're getting a team, I have processes and a whole thing behind me, so it's an organization that's helping you, right.
Speaker 2:But there's other models where I've worked and companies have said I want a scientist internally, so they, they bring me on, I hire the scientists and I completely manage the scientists and I'm meeting with the CEO weekly and I'm executing the scientific objectives that are aligning with the business objectives by, you know, managing the science team and I do. I have three companies that have that model and they love it. So they, they have the leader, but they're not paying the leader salary. And then they have someone who's you know more equating to like a normal salary right, like a I don't want to say normal, but like a less of a salary, less of a spend right For FTE. So, yeah, so anyway, and and. But it can work a lot of different ways, but that's just a few examples of different ways, but that's just a few examples.
Speaker 2:But I think the bigger question is like, where are you with your company? Are you small, do you have investors, or are you pre-series where you don't even have investments? You're not going to hire a scientist. That's not going to make any sense for you, right? And then when you do hire if you hire or you have an advisor you have to take a look at your resources, and science and the rigor of science depends on the resources. You can still do good science with little resources.
Speaker 2:When I was at comm, the guy I can't he was in like HR and I had my budget and he would be like Jen, you're not spending your budget. And I'm like, I'm sorry, like I was born and raised in a university setting where you didn't have a bunch of money sitting there that you can spend. So I had to get used to like, right? So I? I'm used to being low budget, if you will, and getting the most you can. So, yeah, scrappy, thank you, I'm used to being scrappy. So even even with companies with money, I'm not just going to be spending their money. It's like let's be resource aware, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, yeah, so what? So, like you know, someone wants to bring in science into their org and I'm trying to wrap my head around. What would that look like? And what are maybe like the first step or two that a founder would need to take in order to start activating the science? What are the resources? What are the? What are the questions they should be asking? How do they get started?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess if they know they want some type of science or a scientist, like that's one of the things about you know hiring the right person and really understanding what you should be looking for. And it's funny because I wrote I write a lot of content for LinkedIn and I have a post I think it's going out next week about you know vetting a CSO like a chief science officer or a fractional person. But it's like first of all, you have to take a look at the scientist experience and track record. You know, I remember when I first started as a researcher and I wanted to be a presenter, I wanted to do speaking engagements and I wanted to talk about behavior change for women's health, and every time I went and submitted something, they go, get some more like things under your belt and reach back out to us Like you would have to pay us.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and now it's a different story. So so I would say the number one thing is what's under there, what's underneath them, what's the infrastructure they built for themselves, what things can they hang their hat on? What have they had experience in? And not just hiring a scientist. To hire a scientist like straight out of you know, postdoc, let's say like you got it, especially in a, in a bigger role, like that, right, um. So it's like, do they have academic and industry experience and have they published papers? Or have they developed white papers? And like, what about, um, translating research into business outcomes and understanding that stuff? So that's like one side of it. The other thing is, of course, like you would look for anything else, is communication and leadership skills. Right, like anything else, you have someone, have to have someone that's a good communicator.
Speaker 2:The one of the biggest challenges of my job is communicating with the CEO, because nine times out of 10, a CEO isn't trained in science 9.9 times. So how am I going to talk to a CEO when I'm trying to inform them of big decisions that they're making for their business? Number one I'm going to be patient. Number two I'm going to be compassionate and kind right, I'm not going to get frustrated and I'm going to find ways to communicate that makes sense for them. And sometimes it takes a little bit longer for a CEO to really get it and go okay, now it's flowing, now it makes sense for me. And others are like, yep, just let's do it right, it just depends and flow. And now it makes sense for me. And others are like, yep, just let's do it Right, it just depends. And so you know you've got to have someone that can communicate Right. And you know I like to tune into the CEO. It's like why are they doing this? What are their passions and what are their fears? What are they afraid of? And so if I can help them think about how science is going to help them make decisions so that these things aren't so fearful, then that's a win for me. Right? And then the next part is like vision and approach. If you're a scientist, you absolutely should be caring about the business goals and the objectives, and science is always built around that. So, for example, if I want to grow my market and I'm making assumptions about how somebody is using something, I need to do a better job of talking to the market. Now we have market research but there's self-reported health type questions or any type of question that you can ask to get at a deeper layer of why people are doing or using something, question that you can ask to get at a deeper layer of why people are doing or using something.
Speaker 2:So I remember at Calm we were trying to expand our women, our women's market, because you know at the time I can't speak to now, but at the time I was like 83% were women and so they wanted to go in this pregnancy, maternal, child health direction. And the idea was like, okay, well, let's target stress, pregnant women are stressed, let's give them calm for direction. And the idea was like, okay, well, let's target stress, pregnant women are stressed, let's give them calm for right. And it's like, well, shouldn't we ask women who have used calm, who have been pregnant during their use, how they used it and why? And so, sure enough, we did.
Speaker 2:And the number one reason was sleep. So marketing could have gone to stress, but the bigger market would be sleep. So it's like you got to blend both, right, so it's just like that's little ways of like, okay, so the company's vision is to grow that market. So then my scientific approach now has to be okay. I'm going to look at, let's say, the feasibility or the impact of calm during sleep for pregnant women. Right, or? Or? We are an app that makes you, helps you sleep, it's like, are you? How do we know that right?
Speaker 2:like so again but again, because they want to grow that market. That's that's where we go, um, so it's. It's really having, um, that understanding, and scientists have a hard time with that if they don't have industry experience. Yeah, you know, they can implement a study, but it's kind of harder.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting as you explain that. It's kind of like uh, it's like a business, uh, engagement, or like I think about from an hr perspective. We have our employee engagement surveys and that's to understand how is the employee experiencing us and where would they like us to improve. Well, if you don't know that, then you're just basically kind of like making assumptions, like you said earlier, about what you need to do to have your employee experience be better, but like that could not hit right, like but also yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, but also the people that answer your questions are what we call the low hanging fruit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're health aware Americans, maybe, let's say if it's related to health, so they are going to answer your questions because they want things. But then there's a large percentage of people that don't use anything and aren't going to answer your surveys. How do you get to those people? Because those are the people that are costing the company money, yeah, so then you got to pay incentives and do whatever it takes to get information from those folks and and maybe you're never going to change them. But you know, if you look at the general population, right, 25 to 30 to 30% are going to use and seven, 60 to 70 ish, you know, right. So like companies can have like the gamut of anxiety. You know relief apps, right, and it's like only so many are going to use them.
Speaker 2:Then you got to offer something else, and what are you going to offer? And that's where differentiation comes in, right? So if you're an app and you want to be differentiated in the B2B market, how do you do that? If you're trying to improve anxiety, and so are seven other people, how do you do that? Well, you use science to figure that out, like, what is it about your product, your service or whatever that differentiates you? And then you build science around that. So then when you're all at the same table, you can say wait, I do this, but I also do this. So it's figuring that stuff out.
Speaker 1:And then having some data points to talk about how you are making this difference and why you are a different product than these other ones that don't have those data points per se.
Speaker 2:That's right, this is fascinating.
Speaker 1:So any last tidbit or trick or thought process you'd like to share with our listeners as we start to wrap up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I guess the only thing I would say is, like I have, I've always worked with CEOs, you know, and leadership, but it wasn't until I started my own company that I'm like whoa, like I, I understood and I was able to communicate and all those things, but now it's like next level, now that I am my you know, a CEO.
Speaker 2:It's like dealing with people, problems, right Like that alone is like a full time job and not problems, but just like, oh, you got to do this and you got to do that and you got to.
Speaker 1:you know, it's just like All the tactical noise.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Having employees under you. Yep, that's exactly why I have my businesses to support CEOs like you like. Let's take that off your plate you shouldn't be dealing with that noise. You need to be dealing with building the business, not being in it.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, exactly that's 100% and I that is one thing, like I said at the beginning and kind of end is like, yes, lean on people like yourself. Like I hired a fractional so I bought into the fractional model, just like I'm promoting, and I have a fractional COO and she has changed my life and she's only been with me like two months and I love her because she is like, she's helping me. I mean, if she's taking things off my plate, she's telling me Jen, you should not be doing this. I'm like I shouldn't know myself, but just like and just helping me, you know, even helping me make some decisions. So I I give um mad props to all the CEOs out there that are that are doing you know the due diligence to be good leaders and and take care of themselves and their company.
Speaker 1:So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And on that note I would just also add like no one can do everything, and to really think about what is your skillset, what is your wheelhouse that you can actually move the needle for your business and everything else to just fall away to your team and your fractional supports, your vendors, people who can take care of the things. Like you said earlier, ceo is the visionary. They're not the tactical day to day get things done, and so there's a point in time and the life cycle of a business where you really got to let all that go and do what you need to do, which is to be the visionary and grow the business.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly, and that's one of the things that's been so interesting about being in sciences. I'm so niched, you know, it's just so niche. So it's like for those CEOs who really want to, like you know, be different, do different right, Use another approach to do some of the same things, but better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and truly understand the marketplace so that they can really target what the problem is that they need to solve for, rather than just making an assumption that this is the problem. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right, because a lot of times you're not solving the problem or you're actually solving another problem that you don't even know, or maybe you're solving the right problem, but the way you're actually solving another problem that you don't even know. Or maybe you're solving the right problem, but the way you're solving it is not going to actually work Exactly. Yeah, there's tons of equations with that. A hundred percent, yeah for sure. Well, thanks, jen.
Speaker 1:This is great having you on and, for the listeners, I hope you got a couple of tidbits and ways of thinking about running your business, maybe differently. So thanks so much for joining us and until next time having me. I appreciate that Absolutely. Thanks so much and, listeners, please subscribe and follow us for our next, next adventure next week. Thanks so much.
