Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
Achieving Entrepreneurial Balance: Allie Stark on Regenerative Leadership, Personal Well-Being, and Career Reinvention
Unlock the secrets to achieving balance in the frenetic world of entrepreneurship with insights from our esteemed guest, Allie Stark. Allie, a veteran in health and wellness, shares her expertise on regenerative leadership and its critical role in fostering sustainable work environments amidst the chaos of modern productivity demands. Discover how reverse engineering goals into tangible steps can stave off burnout and lead to enduring success. As we navigate the challenges faced by entrepreneurs who often juggle too much, we delve into the importance of human connection and well-being as foundational elements of a thriving business culture.
Witness the transformative power of adversity as we share two compelling stories of professional reinvention. Hear about a client who turned personal health challenges, including a battle with breast cancer, into a purpose-driven venture by creating an innovative exercise product. Reflecting on my own journey from a corporate ejection to business ownership, we explore the dynamics of career transitions and the significance of aligning roles with personal strengths. We also discuss the distinctions between startup environments and larger corporations, emphasizing the need for honest conversations about fit and alignment. This episode is a testament to the idea that embracing change can lead to growth and new beginnings for both individuals and businesses.
Welcome everyone to today's Scaling with People podcast. I'm Guinevere Curry, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. Today, we're going to be talking about the moment of our working life, the culture and the working shift that we're seeing right now, and some other fun things. I'm so excited to have Allie Stark on the call with me today. Allie, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Thanks, guinevere. It's a pleasure to be here. My name is Allie Stark. I've worked in the health and wellness space for the last 20 plus years, which has really spanned from yogic and mindfulness training into getting a master's degree in integrative health, which brought me into health and wellness coaching and eventually life coaching and leadership coaching, and now I run two different businesses. One is Allie Stark Wellness, which is a boutique life and leadership coaching practice where we really support people on a deep one-on-one level, and Noria is an online learning and development platform that I have. That's more of a group coaching capacity, that is, teaching leaders how to step into a new era of living and leading.
Speaker 1:So that's a little about me and and I love your story about the name of your tool Tell me, tell the audience the story, because it's just too amazing not to share it.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So Noria is the name of the platform and, as I was sharing with you, this sort of came about. It was, I want to say, almost like a happy mistake. We had a different name and there is a big trademark issue that was pending with it. So in the final hour, one of our team members actually brought the name up. Noria and Noria's are ancient water wheels that were used to draw water up from a riverbed, a river, just any body of water in a community, and was used to actually tend to giving water, clean water, to the entire community, and the thought is that the community then tends to the land that helps to create this regenerative cycle, and so much of what we're teaching is this idea of regenerative leadership. So we are the Noria for the leaders, the managers, the small business owners that we support, so that they can be the norias for their communities and the ways that they're being of service to the world I just love that.
Speaker 1:It's such a great name for what you're doing. So, okay, so what are these, uh, individuals and or clients that you have, companies that you have? What are some of the trends you're seeing? That they are needing support, guidance and just ways to make improvements in their leadership style and their everyday interaction with their teams.
Speaker 2:So you know, and some of this Guinevere maybe, like I tend to work with it's not all the time, but oftentimes I work with clientele that's around my age, so I feel like I'm working with a lot of leaders and business owners in the midst of like a modern midlife crisis is how it's sort of presenting itself. Yeah, that feels right and I think that you know what's coming out of that is how do we create a working culture that feels sustainable when the predominant noise right now is productivity and advancements in technology and how AI is taking over jobs and do more with less. I think that a huge issue that's showing up is how do we maintain a level of well-being, how does that imbue the culture and that can be whether you are a solopreneur or all the way up to a 500 plus 10,000 plus person company is how do you actually imbue the culture with wellbeing, which, in some ways, is about slowing things down and allowing connection and belonging and humanity to be at the epicenter of how you're running your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I I tell you that to heart too, cause it's like it's slowing down. But then, as an entrepreneur, we want to do everything and we want to do it yesterday. And how do you, how do you coach someone where it's like yeah, I've noticed myself, I've noticed other founders as well. It's like, because you want to do it all, you end up, uh, what I say is I, I bit off more than I should have been, should chew, right, like sometimes that burger or that piece of food that you have is so delicious, you kind of go for that bigger bite and you're like, oh gosh, it doesn't even fit in my mouth, kind of thing. Right, but you're, you gotta, you gotta finish it. So, like, have you had founders or individuals that are in that situation and if so, what have you? How have you coached them to help them get through it? Learn from it to never?
Speaker 2:do that again. I mean, oh my God, it's like what entrepreneur or business owner do you know that hasn't done that Guilty? I think there's a couple of things. So one is it's really nice to actually reverse engineer things. So to look at the goal or the direction in which you're wanting to go and really reverse engineer things and break it down into tangible, bite-sized pieces, just to use your analogy.
Speaker 2:So my background in training as a coach, specifically a health and wellness coach, is really about behavior change, and behavior change applies in the context of leadership, parenting, all of these sorts of things. If you're trying to get to the end goal and kind of doing it all at once, all the things all at once, it's sort of inevitable that you're going to fall on your face. And so how do we actually like back into it, reverse engineer it and create strategy systems and really like bite-sized, digestible pieces to get you there, which can be done through a lot of different strategic approaches. It's really like visioning and then pulling back. This is a lot through creative conversation, creative direction, understanding what platforms and systems are going to support people.
Speaker 2:And I would say one of the biggest pitfalls that I see, especially in I don't know if it's always new business owners, but I just think entrepreneurs kind of like like to wear all of the hats is that we forget to delegate and we forget when we should outsource.
Speaker 2:And you know there's creative. If you don't have the budget to outsource, there's creative ways to do it, like you can do a collaboration or a trade or offering of services, which you know is all a part of, to me, creating a more generous economy. So I just think that so much of it is you know, and at least at this point in my career. So I just think that so much of it is you know, and at least at this point in my career, I'm really aware of what I'm not good at and I spend the money, or however it is, that I'm creating that reciprocal exchange to have people help me who will do something better in a fraction of the amount of time. Yeah, so getting help knowing that you're not supposed to need everything backing into things, so it's much more digestible creating behavior changes within the business slowly and over an extended period of time and then remaining adaptable and flexible, because shit's inevitably going to hit the fan at some point.
Speaker 1:For sure, and probably multiple times too. Right, yeah, being agile and being able to skirt that or revise something or have a different strategy. So many times that happens in business, and not even just when you're starting. I've I've worked with other clients that they're, you know, 500 employees and they're having a pit of it and do a different strategy. So it's not just when you're five people, it's kind of never ending. So we talked earlier, before we started recording, about the shift of working and how it's still kind of this unknown. Where's it going to land? What's going to happen? The cultural movement of that? So it's creating a lot of isolation and burnout. What is some of the methods or support that you are having your leaders, your customers and clients give to their people in order to help not only themselves but their direct reports as well?
Speaker 2:It's such a nice question. I really feel like we are on this a little bit of a blank page. It's like that chapter between two chapters or the space between two stories, and we're culturally very uncomfortable with being in uncertainty and unknown. And I think the world is becoming more and more nonlinear and unexpected and so so much of it actually becomes that leadership truly is an inside out job. It is about really learning practices in nervous system regulation and understanding when you are dropping into a space of fight or flight and or rest and relaxation. So ideally, figuring out how to calm and regulate your nervous system, which can be done through a myriad. I mean it's both mindfulness-based practices, it's breath excuse me, breath-based practices, awareness building practices, understanding the level like a concept that we use in Noria is understanding your inner well. So when are you feeling depleted and on the verge of burnout? When are you feeling really energized and filled up, like there's a lot of water in your well and all of that stuff. Those are all awareness building skills. So it's just a skill or a small tool that you do a little bit of every day that help grow your awareness and then you model those skills and creating of that culture to your team members. So I'll just use kind of a fascinating example.
Speaker 2:I just had a session with a client today and it feels very apropos. He went from being a freelance creative director and is now working in-house and on the session that I had with him it was like he was amped, I mean just totally. I've kind of never heard him this way exactly, you know, and I started to ask him questions about the culture, and the culture was about like efficiency moving really fast, getting a lot of things done. Efficiency moving really fast, getting a lot of things done. And you know I the conversation was a lot about like how does your body feel in this environment and how do we slow you down a little bit, even if it's counterculture, and if you're feeling it, other people are feeling it. And in the owning of a business and running of a business, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint. So you have to find ways to implement pause and space and pulling away, and we're not supposed to be productivity machines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so true, and if we treat ourselves like that, we're going to end up with the heart attacks burnout in in the ground way too early. Like we need the mental space and and just to stop and relax and let our bodies catch up with our mind sometimes, and that then actually gives you the space to be creative and to think differently. Like how many times have you just stopped and had something to drink coffee, hot tea, chocolate, whatever, listen to the birds, listen to the wind going through the meld, into the moment and not be like thinking. I know sometimes I have to use, like the. My husband gave me a trick Think of a whiteboard and don't let anything get on that whiteboard. That's so hard. It's so hard not to let something get on that whiteboard. You're like no, nothing on the whiteboard, nothing on the whiteboard.
Speaker 2:You know, and like Guinevere, as you're talking, I always feel like you know people want like these. This is the three-step solution to calm your nervous system.
Speaker 2:You know, and I struggle a little bit with that because everyone is so different, like, like the way our nervous system A, it's genetic, we're born with it and then it's programmed by our lived experiences trauma, family dynamics, et cetera.
Speaker 2:So I really don't believe in a one size fits all approach and what I do believe in is like resource yourself by reading or a coach or a therapist, whatever it is, to find the unique calibration for you. Like the whiteboard may or may not work for you, and it totally may, you know, and and I think that also it's like it will change over time because it's an ongoing practice of um being in touch with what's going on internally and it will completely depend on how much sleep you've gotten and where you're living and what's going on with work and if you have kids, all that sort of stuff. So I really just think that you have to be really thoughtful of, like um, I like having lots of tools in my toolbox so that I can draw from them and really use them uniquely depending upon who I'm working with and what they're working through.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's so great too, because in that moment, like, oh, the whiteboard might work in that moment, but then three days later it might not. And so having a couple tools to fall on for any individual, it seems like that would be really smart. Just like in business, you don't want to put all your all your eggs in one basket. It's the same concept, right? You want to have a couple everywhere so that if one fails you, you have another way to get to that result you're looking for. Yeah, yeah, that's great, awesome. Well, so tell me what? Um, I love that story you gave about one of your clients. What's another story that you see is kind of like something that you get in, that you get into or involved with someone and you're like man, I just wish that I could have had the conversation with this person like three months ago or even a year ago, and gotten in front of them and help them to avoid this huge thing. Do you have a story to share that falls in that line?
Speaker 2:It's funny because the thing that's coming up for me is like kind of answering your question and kind of not answering.
Speaker 2:Okay, give it to me it's fine, yeah, setting, or they've seen someone else be highly successful in, you know, selling a product similar to that or running a business like that, and what I really fall back on is your lived experience, like something that I would love to you know. Share with people is like your lived experience actually helps create the roadmap. Your obstacles are the opportunity for how to be of service. So I will give you an example that's coming to mind Um. A client of mine came in wanting to create um like an exercise form, like a form of an exercise product, and throughout the course of our time working together, she had previously had health complications and they wound up kind of getting increasingly more complicated and she'd had breast cancer during our time of working together.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And this woman is a powerhouse. I mean she's just incredible and it was just like amazing to watch her. Like you know, you know, she was like I really don't identify with this term of being a survivor and I really all this kind of like unlearning, um, breaking out of cultural norms, of how we like to put things in boxes, and throughout our time of working together it was sort of like, you know, this thing that happened, which was challenging and tragic and hard, is actually opening up this realm of previously unknown possibility for what you could build Right, which I won't share what that was, but it was very much connected to her experience having cancer, going through a Western medical system, the lack of communication that exists between multiple providers when you're dealing with something complex like that like cancer, auto-immunity, et cetera. And yeah, I oftentimes think like the business we're supposed to run or the thing we're meant to do in the world isn't actually that sexy or cool. It's based off of our lived experience, which then allows it to be really authentic and genuine to us.
Speaker 1:I love that and you really like that. It turns into a passion and ultimately, that passion is what drives you to create that business and want it to be successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it allows you to continue to return to your why. So you know, I feel like some something happened in the last 10 years or whatever where it's like only do work, that's your passion, which I also don't totally like. Sometimes a job is job, it's all cool, it's like. I don't always feel that way, but I do think you have to have something that you can sink your teeth into, that's connected to something more meaningful, more purposeful for you, more service driven and service oriented, cause that's how we connect to the world around us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Okay, so, allie, I'd love to to not just test you, but test me and give a little bit of authenticity to the podcast. Let's talk a little bit about me. Maybe you can coach me a little bit here.
Speaker 1:So I built my business about three years ago. I started because I got a pretty horrific dejection I'll say Pretty scarring experience of getting ejected out of my last corporate job, and took some time off, healed my wounds, thought about what I really wanted to do and I was like, yeah, I want to do it all over again. I love this startup stuff. Let me get into this.
Speaker 1:So built my business, really wanted to get in front of founders to help them make better people operations decisions earlier on in their business life cycle and that way they don't make the same mistakes I've seen other founders do, which is get too far along and then realize, oh, I don't have any people operations, how do I hire a hundred people tomorrow? And so that is what I why I've done it. I've done it to get you know, just to help these founders make good people operation decisions that will help them be successful. And three years later, I'm still doing it. I love it. So that's a little bit about like why I started my background, but what questions do you have for me and where do we want to take it from now?
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's two curiosities that come up. So one is this it sounds like a catalyzing moment when you, you know, kind of, were kicked out of your old corporate job. Um, and you know you may not want to share this cause this is a little bit digging, but you know where I go is like what did you learn about yourself in that moment? Like what came up, what self-responsibility was there and how did that lend itself to the next iteration of what you built? So I'll I don't want to convolute, I'll answer that. I don't want to ask that first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will say I think for me it was more of a I was looking for, like what did I do wrong? What could I have done different? How can I learn from this experience? Uh, so that I, you know, I don't end up in the same situation. And it was a process of really trying to dig in.
Speaker 1:No one's perfect by any means, but what I actually came out of it was a truth, a belief that, no matter what I could have done differently, this particular situation wasn't about me. It was about the CEO and how he manages and runs people, and nothing I could have done differently, in my belief, would have changed the outcome. I also truly am a believer, I'm, I'm, I'm in my faith, and I also feel like it was also partly God ejected me out so that I could create this company I have now, and so lesson learned there is just, I think for me it was more like don't take it, don't take everything. So, personally, right, it's not always about you, it's about the business, it's about the business need, and I also would say I wish that the CEO and myself were had a little bit more grown up moment in saying, hey, you're no longer the right fit for the business. Let's talk about an exit strategy, what that can look like, so that everyone involved not just me but my team, who got totally just like thrown to the wolves after I left like how do we make this be a positive experience for everyone? Let's be adults about this and let's execute on that exit strategy. And that's something I've learned from a client that I'm working with and I love how they just really it's just such an adult, professional conversation because at some point in time, you or the business are no longer going to be a fit for each other, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I love being in small startup companies. This company was getting to be a bigger company. They needed someone that had experience with a thousands plus employee population. I didn't want to go there in regards to like, I don't enjoy being in a bigger company like that, and they needed that experience. What a different outcome that could have been if we could have had a, you know, adult conversation like, look, this is what we need. We don't think that you're the right fit for what we need anymore. Let's talk about that and see where we go from there.
Speaker 2:I think that's so beautifully stated on so many accounts. So one is like oftentimes, oftentimes it's not about us, right? So I think that it's really important to self-reflect and see where you need to take accountability and responsibility. But what I'm actually hearing is the business was growing in ways that weren't aligned with what's most authentic, genuine, true to who you are and what you enjoy doing. This is a super normal. It's growing pains that's literally what it is, a hundred percent, and there's so much opportunity to actually have questions that empower people rather than leave them in the dust or the dirt or you continue people pleasing, and it's the wrong fit for your business. And I'm imagining for you, based off of what you are sharing with me, that so much of what you do in terms of your business is like coaching people around, how to have those conversations right. It's like the coach approach and using curiosity and giving and receiving really honest feedback, and so I'm imagining that the experience actually transformed into how you support other people and their people practices yeah, true.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think that's like just so rad. That's how we're supposed to be, that's how we're supposed to pay it forward. The people at the leadership team, the people in the business they have given the blood, sweats, tears, their life basically to help the business get to this place, but there may not be the right people to move it to D and IPO land or wherever. You're taking the business right, and that's okay and I've been preaching that for a long time, but it was like the reality was. Is that how you execute? That can be such a game changer and you can cause disruption and harm to your business.
Speaker 1:Or you can do it in a way where you treat everyone like a human being, an adult and a professional and let's have a sit down moment, right. There's so many times where it's like let's talk about what the business needs, let's talk about what you need. Where are you going? Does this fit? Does this still align? If not, then let's just talk about it and let's see what. How do we support each other to move on and still grow? And, man, what a difference that would have made if I had a CEO who could have had that conversation with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm. I'm thinking of a founder that I work with, who. She's young, she's incredible, it's like amazing what she's built and the business is in a really significant place of growth. It's preparing for an eventual sale, a large sale, and the people who got her to where she is today aren't, you know, from zero to one, aren't the right to go from one to two, and that's not to me. What that's a reflection is is they did their job, like they were exceptional at what they were hired to do, and I think it really leans into a previous question that you had asked is like we're not meant to like. We have certain zones of geniuses and the more we can lean into those while still growing ourself in other areas, the better, and you may be someone who does really well working with small startups and that's your zone of genius and it's what you like. It's what feels most passionate and fun and joyful and nourishing for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And if you flip it the other way, when you're a size 25, 30 employees, you're not going out and looking for your chief, marketing chief, finance chief, whatever officer. You don't need that level, right? It's the same concept, just in the sense of okay, we have maybe more junior level experience, maybe we have a director or VP. Have maybe more junior level experience, maybe we have a director or VP.
Speaker 1:I really now need a chief because now I'm at 500 or now I'm at a specific revenue that really calls for it, right? So I think, if you can think about it from that perspective, I wouldn't hire above what I need. Why am I keeping someone up below what I need? And one of my favorite things I learned from a community called Vistage is is basically, like you know, help them get to a point where they're going to a place where they can be more successful and it'd be a better fit for them. Help another company find another great employee by letting this one go, because this employee at your place it may not be great, but they could be amazing at another place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very well stated. It's like you know you're not meant to be with everyone that you date. That's just not.
Speaker 1:Boy, would that be a crazy world right.
Speaker 2:Like you don't have to force something that just doesn't feel right. So, yeah, I'm in full agreement, and it's cool to like again. There's this amazing book called the Awakened Brain by Lisa Miller, and the way she talks about it is the ideas of, like, red doors and green doors, and it's like when you get a red door, it inevitably opens up the green door. You have to sit in the space between, though, Like you have to trust, and I think that's a lot of downfalls.
Speaker 2:When people are making transition, they want to know what's next, and I personally don't believe that that's how transition works. You have to leap into an abyss as long as you like, you know you want to make sure you can pay, like. Obviously, there's things about security and safety, but there's like there needs to be this kind of like murky space between where something can get revealed to you that, if you are forcing or controlling it ahead of time, you're never even going to get to see what's possible, and that is true with a business as a you know individual contributor, an employee, an employer, all those sorts of things 100%.
Speaker 1:And it goes back to what we said earlier find that space to just let your brain be, let those creative moments let's sit in that quiet, unknown space, because then that's when your creativity can take over. Thoughts that were in the back of your mind, that are too soft, can never be heard over all the other noise. Let those things come forward, because those are the things that are going to really impact you and you know. In the same vein I'd say take the leap. But you know we do have bills to pay, right, we do families and other obligations. So take the leap, but have your backup plan. Know that that leap like for me, I took the leap to start my business.
Speaker 1:I gave myself six months. That was my runway. If I couldn't make it work, I'd go back to find something full-time. Here I am three years later but you never know, it could have been seven months in. I'm like, okay, back to full-time. I got to find something Right. But I took the leap because I had a backup plan. I knew exactly when I had to change courses to make sure that my obligations were being met. And so I think, if you can find a way to understand what that space you can give yourself to keep those obligations in play. What other obligations could you maybe say no to anymore and get rid of right? Like? A simple example is do you really need 10 different streaming services? You know like there's so many different things. This is not a financial call but, needless to say, if you can find a way to have that structure in place and know that you have that, um, that, uh parachute, I guess you could say right, you may or may not need it, but it's there on your back in case you do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know like I would never, ever, coach someone to just quit their job when all this, when financial stress, is going to be, you know, up around the corner the next day. That's just not my style. But I think to your point is like we actually get really comfortable and consume in a particular type of way and if you're willing to dismantle that a little bit and get into the discomfort, I just think it's ripe with possibility and you could get back to that lifestyle or most likely even greater. But I think there's risk. Risk comes in many, many forms and it's not just like, oh, I'm taking a leap of faith, but it's like how am I showing up in this risk to adjust for it so that I can reap a reward?
Speaker 1:I love that. I feel like we could continue talking, but, as we wrap up, any last final thoughts, words of wisdoms that you want to give to the audience today.
Speaker 2:Just um, it's such a pleasure to chat and connect with you. These are obviously topics that I hold near and dear to my heart and can I share with your audience where they can find me? Yes, please, um, so in the link below as well. Okay, great. So if anyone's interested in learning more on a one-on-one basis, I have my private practice, which is Allie Stark, wellnesscom, a L L I E S T A R K, wellnesscom, and Noria. My online learning platform for leaders and business owners, is hello Noria and O R I Acom, so you can find that's where all the socials and content and all of the extra stuff live.
Speaker 1:Great Well, thanks, allie, for joining us today and for those listening. Thank you so much and we'll see you on the next podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
