Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
The Dance of Growth and Scalability: Building a Business You Love
Have you ever felt like your business has become a prison of your own making? You're not alone. In this eye-opening conversation with Leslie Hassler, founder of Your Biz Rules, we dive deep into the stark difference between building a business that drains your soul versus one that fills it with purpose and joy.
Leslie shares her journey as an "accidental entrepreneur" who transformed from dreading Monday mornings to being energized by them. Her powerful insight that "there's no profit fairy" challenges the common misconception that profits magically appear once you've worked hard enough or grown big enough. Instead, she reveals the critical dance between growth and scalability that most business owners misunderstand.
The most enlightening part of our discussion explores how growth actually devours cash while making essential foundational investments that don't immediately show returns. Like renovating an older home, you're putting money into improvements behind the walls that pay dividends over time. Meanwhile, scalability is where you truly "rake it in" – giving one and getting ten back. Understanding this partnership completely transforms how you approach building your business.
We also tackle the identity crisis that comes with evolving as a business owner. The transition from doing the work yourself to leading others through it challenges your self-worth and requires letting go of the adrenaline rush that comes from checking items off your list. As Leslie notes, this transformation happens repeatedly throughout your entrepreneurial journey – with your first employee, when you're no longer servicing clients directly, and eventually if you sell or transition your business.
Whether you're just starting your entrepreneurial journey or looking to escape the prison of a business that's consuming rather than serving you, this conversation provides the perspective shift you need to build a business aligned with your vision and values. Take that first baby step today, and you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish over time.
Welcome everyone to today's Scaling with People podcast. I'm Gwenevere Curry, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. I'm here with Leslie Hassler and we're going to be talking about some lessons learned from her, but also how to grow your business from different perspectives. I'm super excited to dive in, so welcome Leslie and tell everyone about who you are to dive in.
Speaker 2:So welcome, leslie, and tell everyone about who you are. Howdy Guinevere, thank you for having me here. As you mentioned, leslie Hassler, I'm the founder of your Biz Rules. We are kind of a fractional C-suite firm for businesses before they can afford the C-suite, but we do work with growth and scalability and doing it in a way that's profitable and actually improves the quality of life for the owner. Yeah, don't we all? So if you're looking for freedom, if you're looking for financial security from your business, then that is really what we ultimately deliver to our clients.
Speaker 1:And so tell me a little bit about. This is not your first time, your first rodeo, this is your second company.
Speaker 2:Technically it's 2.5. Oh, it's 2.5. There was one in the middle that we went into, invested in, hated every minute of it, shut it down probably in nine months. I was like what was I thinking? But yes, this is my second business.
Speaker 2:Your Biz Rules has been around for over 11 years now and I've been an entrepreneur for 17. And what I? When I tell people you know the difference between the two businesses, because usually it's like why did you get here? And I'm like, well, the first business sucked my soul dry and the second business fills it. So a lot of times I will say I'm like, totally, that first business was prison and it was a prison I built for myself but didn't realize it. And this business your Biz Rules is where I've been much more intentional about the type of business that I'm building and why I'm building it and who I'm bringing on board, and in that way it's it's our playground. Everybody on this team would feel the same way. We are here for the transformation, for the impact, for the changing of lives that we do and that makes every day worth it, even when you're in meeting. You know what. For the entire.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure. So let's do a little lesson learn from that. Yes, for sure. So let's do a little lesson learned from that. If you were like you know, go back and you said you made your own prison, what are some lessons learned and how you made sure you didn't have that happen?
Speaker 2:again in your second business. So I do think you know one of the things we first do. And I'll tell you, like, when I started my first business, I consider myself to be the accidental entrepreneur, because it's not like I had this big long plan that I was going to open my own business. No, I found out on a Wednesday that by Friday I would not have a job, and at the time I was working for other small businesses and it was always like Leslie, you're wonderful, you're awesome. This isn't because you've done anything wrong, we just can't afford you. And so I think that was the second or third time that it happened to me and I was like, oh, this just sucks. Um, okay, I don't want to go through this anymore. What do I do? Oh, let's open up our business.
Speaker 2:So Wednesday, friday, monday, I opened up my own business. Monday, I opened up my own business, and that was in 2007. So you know, there was a lot of lessons learned. But walking into that business, I knew a couple of things. I knew what I could see of other businesses and I knew what it was like to have a job. So I built a business based on my perception of what I saw and a whole lot of assumptions, and I basically created a job, not a business.
Speaker 1:Now.
Speaker 2:I grew that company we had, I think at the height we were probably a team of six or seven. So I mean I had a team. It was still a job. It was a job I hated going to and I really did spend several years going around in like conversations with God is what I say and I was like where I'll be, like you know doing something. But in my brain I'm like, okay, god, why am I here? What do I want to do? What do I want to be when I grow up? If it's not this, then what? What do I want to be when I grow up? If it's not this, then what? What, no?
Speaker 1:I don't think it's that.
Speaker 2:You know. It's just that, that kind of mental exploration, until I joke that I said, OK, God, I will do whatever I just need, like flashing lights and neon signs. You know this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, doesn't quite work that way, unfortunately, right.
Speaker 2:Weirdly did. But then I was like, who am I, you know, totally downplayed it. Ultimately I got a two by four moment. It's like no, you will go do this and screaming, but honestly, it has been the biggest blessing. At the end of the day, I love what we do, I love our team, I love our clients. There's even on the hard weeks and the hard days because, hey, entrepreneurship is not all roses I still love what I do. I'll still do that. And it's just such a stark difference from my first business where, like, got hard palpitations Sunday night because you know Monday was coming I, you know, sunday night, because you know Monday was coming, um, I, you know, that's not the problem here. You know I'm energized by Monday. Um, I am always ready and willing to do the next thing that needs to be done for the company to continue to grow, and that, I think, is a true sign of you're.
Speaker 1:You're in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's alignment right, and this is something we talk about in our upcoming book Scaling Rich, where the goal and the contrast between the two businesses was. I was so far out of alignment with the business in the first version of me and I'm so in alignment with the business that I have today, and that alignment alone will make a hustle and grind seem unbearable or make it feel inspirational and passionate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so true. So, speaking of growing businesses, I know you and I talked a couple of different strategies and you have a couple strategies for small business growth. Would you care to share with us?
Speaker 2:what they are. Oh goodness, that's a whole big can of wax. Let's open it up. Let's just open it up. So I will just start where we always start with our clients, which is the money of the business, because a business should be making money, plain and simple. Show me the money, right, you know you don't have. A business should be making money.
Speaker 1:Plain and simple.
Speaker 2:Show me the money right.
Speaker 2:You know you don't have a business. In fact, I think it's eight out of the 10 reasons that a business will fold in the first five years, and we know what those rates are. You've heard them before. I'm not going to hammer them out, but eight out of 10 are always directly attributed to money. So, first off, there's a couple of things I like to say. First off, there's no profit fairy I know that really is. There's no one who's gonna come and say guinevere, guinevere. You've worked hard enough, you've worked long enough. You have profits.
Speaker 1:I wish that was possible right.
Speaker 2:I wish I had that magic wand. The truth is, most people treat profits as a reward for being big enough, for being strong enough, working hard enough, serving the right clients right. And so, because it's so, future cast, you sacrifice everything from here to there. The name of the game, truly and I will die to my dying day say this the game is to be as profitable as you can be at the smallest sized business possible. Now we work with a variety of businesses. You're going to say well, what is it? Typically, you can do it in five figures. I'm going to say you can do it in five figures, but typically it's right around that 200 to 300,000, maybe as much as 400,000 that a lot of businesses start to see the potential for profitability. But it's going to require you to manage your money in your business very differently than you manage your money in your home. Right, and you're going to have to pay taxes. I'm sorry, because taxes are a privilege of profit. So if you are constantly breaking even, you are one catastrophe away from going broke, right, and when you're, when you need money like that, the banks don't want to give it to you because they can't see a way to get paid, right. So we just need to change that, and I think that's one of the things that we help a lot of business owners do.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people will say, oh, I'm just not good at numbers, I'm like great, you don't have to be, you just have to employ the people who are, who can give you the advice, the strategy, the red flags. You know that. Say, hey, don't go down that path, and here's why, here's why. And be able to use that to fuel your business. Because, especially if you're young or you know younger in business and you haven't hired your first team members, then you're going to need the money to do it and it's much riskier. You're going to resist that growth move if you don't have money to pay for it. So that's what I will say Like, first off, get the money right, get some systems. It doesn't have to be complicated, you don't need to be an accountant. In fact, if you passed third grade, that's all you need. There you go. Addition, subtraction, light, multiplication yeah exactly, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, so what's is that like? Get that down. That seems common sense to me, right, like I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most people are trying to grow themselves out of a cash problem because they're chasing revenue, right, and what you need to understand is that growth is necessary. It is so we say, like, growth and scalability are two partners. They're two dance partners, right, they just take turns leading. So you go through a period of growth, then you go through a period of scalability and then, when scalability is maxed, guess what? You get to go through a period of growth. Most people try to race their way out of growth, right, just, and I almost like a little it's like you were expecting a little infant to go from crawling to running a marathon and I'm like it doesn't work right, there's a sequence of things, not that everything has to take a long time, but there's a sequence and you can't really skip things. You can do them effectively, efficiently and productively, but you can't skip. So I think so many people try to grow themselves out of cash problems, not understanding that growth devours cash Growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the same right. Is you got to spend money to make money? So are they spending so much money that they're at but they're not making enough?
Speaker 2:I mean that's that's part of it, but part of the other part about growth is its foundations. I mean that's part of it, but part of the other part about growth is its foundations. I don't know if you've ever gone through a remodel or have bought an older home. I always, typically, am buying older homes. You know there's nothing more frustrating than putting money into insulation or AC.
Speaker 1:Or something behind the wall that you're never going to see.
Speaker 2:You're never going to see it right. And then, for all the effort that you put into and the money that you put into that improvement, you don't really get it all back all at once. You get it back daily, monthly, yearly, over time. That's growth. You don't get it all at once. You get it back daily, weekly, yearly, over time. So when we're with a company and we're working on growth foundations I'll be straight up honest I'm like it's going to take us a year. It's going to take us a year to do all of these things. That means our numbers are going to look flat. They're not going to show you proof yet. Year two, year three, you'll be making major money year three on these growth investments. But most people think growth's like a light switch, like I spend the money, it's going to come back in a wave and it doesn't. And let me I'll share a story. So I was talking about this concept with a business and they were like, oh my gosh, so happened to me. And I was like okay, tell me more.
Speaker 1:I want to hear it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I want to know and he's like well, I bought our company from our parents and they had a great business, but they resisted technology. And so one of the things we were doing and we were finding is that that technology was actually becoming an impediment. We had to invest. But I had to catch up 40 years worth of technology with a major investment and I'm like, oh, I can feel it. How many figures were it? And he goes it was a six figure investment and I was like and has it been worth it? He goes just now and I was like, yeah, how long did that take? How long did it take you, from the time you paid that money, to make that investment, that growth? Move right To see the cash flow and they said 18 months.
Speaker 2:Do you know? Most business owners have 9 to 12 weeks or nine to 12 days not even weeks days worth of cash on hand. Yeah, I can believe that. Right, if you've ever worried about payroll, you're in that bucket. If you worry about it but you make it, you're in this bucket. You don't have enough cash on hand. That's why you've got the worry.
Speaker 2:So that's the thing about growth and scalability is they're not intuitive. They don't behave like you think they're going to behave. Scalability is where you rake it in. You have already made these investments right and now you're capitalizing on them. You're being more productive, you have more capacity, more ability to earn. You have more capacity, more ability to earn. But anything you spend in this way gives you back a multiplier. So growth you get one, you give one, you get one, and maybe it takes two years to do that. Scalability you give one, it gives you 10 back. You're like hallelujah, a jackpot, let's go, let's cha-ching, cha-ching. So I do think you have to really understand how these two forces play together and then understand how the cash impacts and acts, because you cannot grow your way out of a cash problem and you cannot scale until you are done with growth.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's. I've never heard it that way and that makes so much sense you feel it, though you probably have felt moments of tension and why is this so hard and why is my, my business fighting against me?
Speaker 2:we all have. It's just we. We're not talking to each other about it, we just made this. This is like. This is why this is our. My playground is I eat this stuff up like I'll walk into a coffee shop and I'm counting the seats and looking at their menu, going, oh, their average sale, and then I watch how many people are buying and I was like, do you know what you can do in here in an hour? This is amazing, you know, and that's just the difference. But it's also why, you know, we bring in people outside of our own business to to put their eyes on it, because oftentimes, as the owner, we are too close to our own stuff to see the opportunities it takes the the, the eyesight of somebody who's not close, who's not emotionally attached, who understands what you're trying to do, to say, hey, um, owner, you you might want to get out of the way of yourself. You're kind of blocking yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure and I just like that payroll comment. Like I remember working with a CEO back in the day and, um, he was telling me yeah, I had to sell a couple of my cars to pay payroll one time. Like you're like, okay, yeah, that's when it gets real right, like you really believe in your business.
Speaker 2:That's when it gets real. But what that says is is that the cash management of the business? That instantly? You say that story and I'm like so. The business produces cash, but the cash management of the business is not predictive. There's nobody saying hey, by the way, on Wednesday, the 24th, you're going to need some money. Those are some of the systems that we like to install for our owners, so that you're just making better decisions, and sometimes it's just like, hey, can you wait a month to take that? Once you do that, then we'll do this and you're golden for the next 10 months. But if you know to avoid a traffic jam, wouldn't you want to know that?
Speaker 1:Thank you for ways and Google maps and all the other tools we have today Right and why not have something that's similar for your own business?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you were talking about, you know, getting out of the way of yourself as the owner, and so one of the things I see, especially in the human, human, the people space, is that owners that are founders that turn into CEOs eventually as they grow their business, given the way of the business, because they're always in the weeds, they're always still like wanting their hands in all the cookie jars and it is a detriment to the business and its growth and love. To get your perspective, especially from the growth point of view, how can a business owner, especially younger in their life cycle, as they start to build their business, be thinking about that? And what are some pitfalls that you've seen that maybe they could have in their head and be like, oh, that's pitfall, I'm going to go around that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm going to start off with a story that one of my neighbors told me when my husband and I first got dogs. So we got two dogs on one weekend.
Speaker 1:And perfect timing.
Speaker 2:I hear them for the first time, and he's outside. This is a different dog. I'm like he's really outside too. So we got a great Dane in a yellow lab.
Speaker 1:Bailey and Sophie.
Speaker 2:And the yellow lab was just, she was six weeks old. So you just want to hold this little baby dog and just, and I remember I had her in my lap Sitting here and I was petting on her and my, my neighbor Rhonda, comes over and she's like look, I'm not going to tell you how to treat your animals, because that's like trying to tell somebody how to raise their kids. She goes you how to treat your animals? Because that's like trying to tell somebody how to raise their kids. She goes I'm just gonna ask a question. And I was like, okay, she goes. So is what you're doing now? What will work when that dog is 150 pounds? And I looked at her, I picked up the dog, I put him on the ground. I was like, no, just be really careful of the habits you're teaching your dog, because right now they're cute and they're cuddly and they're such a little baby and you just want to, but eventually they're going to get bigger.
Speaker 2:Think about that. If you think about that story, because that's always stuck with me then put it to your business. What does what you're doing in your business today look like when you've quadrupled on 10 times? Go from a team of 10 to 20 to 30, right, we don't think that far ahead, mostly because we've never been there and it's really hard to imagine where you've never been. But I think for a lot of growth and that you have to think about is that sustainability of whatever it is that you're doing and building to the business in mind, not the business you necessarily have. So when you're doing that, you've got a further radar. You know that you can kind of measure some decisions against. So I think that's one reason people stay in the weeds is because they actually have never seen the forest, so they can only see the trees. They're not think they are. They don't have a strategic partner is like, by the way, you might want to come to the left. I just want to save you a little heartache. You know, come to the left, it'll be okay.
Speaker 2:I think the other part of it is twofold. One is that most people, especially early on hiring decisions, are hiring for task, not hiring for a result, and so when you're hiring from a task, you tend to want to manage the task, and so, instead of managing the person, we manage the task. And so, instead of managing the person, we manage the task. And because we're managing the task. It's always yours, right. Then the person's coming to you for questions. I don't know how. What would you do in this situation? Oh, this didn't go right. You fix it Because, truly, they might be the one doing the widget part, but you own the task. You can never let it go. So I think that's that's something that, ultimately, if you had the end in mind, if you thought about your business, thinking down, you would go oh baby, I don't need to do that. In fact, I celebrate the days. I'm like you'll have a meeting without me. This is fabulous, totally meeting without me this is fabulous.
Speaker 1:I love it totally let me know how I can support you right. So I think, or when, like, someone comes to you with a proposal like here's what I think would be great if we could do in the improvement, the ROI, here's how we would do it and here's how we should execute, I'm just like praise the lord, hallelujah, please go and get it done like this is great make it, so let me know you notice when say a lot.
Speaker 2:Let me know how I can support you with that, but you are you know, and occasionally you might go did you think about X, y and Z?
Speaker 2:And they're like, yeah, or it's like, okay, the timing might not work because of this over here that you had no idea about. But yes, be prepared, get this done. We're going forward and that's, I think, the real joy. But I do think, as you're growing your business, one of the challenges that nobody's talking about is all the identity crisis you have as the owner of the business, and I know this and I still go through this. I'm just going to let you know. So it's the I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's when you have hired the people who are more than capable, right?
Speaker 1:Maybe even smarter than you on that particular function.
Speaker 2:If you have hired. Well, yes, they should be smarter than you, right? I told my team. I was like I'm getting to the point to where I don't know how to do this. And they're like this is lovely. I was like y'all are going to have to stop asking me because I don't know. You know more than I do at this point in time. So, yeah, we made it. This is so exciting, but it's still like every evolution of you as the owner, as the leader of the business, requires you to let go. And if you're letting go of the work, it's challenging because we have been taught, especially in our Western society, that our value is tied to getting things done. And I was like I'll have clients that are like, if you are addicted to scratching things off your list, If you love the adrenaline rush of a good check mark, oh, yes, I know I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1:I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm talking to a lot of people out there, because it's not just us, it's not even just women, it's everyone, any tool. You understand that your role in the business is evolving from the one that does the work to the one that ensures that it gets done and that you eventually, and as deliberately and intentionally, are stepping into new levels of leadership which are challenging. They cause you to peel back the onions, the layer in the onions, the onions to be able to do this. But it is that identity crisis that you go through, and you go through it with your first employee. You'll go through it. When you no longer are the one servicing your clients, you'll go through it again. It's just when you're not actively. If you've built your business to not actively need to be the driver of the business, you'll go through it again. And guess what? If you're going to transition to your next generation or sell your business, you're going to go through it again. It is just almost predictable, like clockwork.
Speaker 1:And I would even say leaders. No matter if you're a business owner or not, if there's leaders listening. You go through this as well when you go from a director to vp, when vp to c level like this is definitely a a transition that you go through as well at that level.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it's real, but we don't talk about it too much, right, and so it takes us aback, um, takes us off, off, off kilter a little bit well, and I think actually what is interesting is this is such like I think I just had an aha moment of like why some people they say they want to be managers or business owners, but they don't recognize this transition and they may not want it and that's okay. Right Like we're not, we can't all be CEOs and we'd have no plumbing, or you know, nobody driving the buses or whatever. Right, like we can't all be CEOs, then we'd have no plumbing, or you know, nobody driving the buses or whatever right.
Speaker 1:Like we can't all be that, but like having this like aha moment of here's what it looks like, this transition of like is this what you really want to do?
Speaker 1:Are you just kind of climbing the ladder, because that's what everyone tells you to do, as you know, someone that should be successful, right, right, that love that man. That was a big takeaway for me. I hope everyone got that. Awesome. Glad to help, glad to help Awesome. Well, leslie, it was so great having you on the call and appreciate all your wisdom. I feel like there's so much more I should be asking you, but time is up and maybe I'll have to bring you on for another time in the future.
Speaker 2:As always, we're happy and, yeah, we're just scratching the edge of the iceberg. We haven't even made a dent. So but such as small business, right?
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, baby steps, sometimes that's what it takes. Like sometimes it's hard. You have this big goal and you're like, oh, I'm not gonna start today, there's no way I can get over there. But like, baby step, just a little baby step, and then all of a sudden you look back six months later like, whoa, I just did all of that, right, like. So I even tell a lot of my teams like they just feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's okay to feel overwhelmed.
Speaker 1:We're trying to accomplish a lot with a little and like, but just like, just. Can you just do one little tiny thing for me today?
Speaker 1:That's all I asked you know one tiny thing for me today, one tiny thing for me tomorrow, and guess what we're going to be like? Whoa, we, we accomplished all of that in a year period of time. So, yes, well, thanks, leslie, and thank you everyone for listening. We hope you got something out of it I know I did and until next time, have a wonderful day wherever you are in the world, and we'll see you on the next podcast. Thanks so much for joining.
