Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
Seeing People, Scaling Faster: The Sawubona Leadership Playbook with Susan Inouye
What if the fastest path to growth isn’t a new playbook, but a new way of seeing people? We sit down with bestselling author and executive coach Susan Inouye to unpack Sabona leadership—the Zulu-rooted philosophy of “I see you”—and how it transforms culture, performance, and profit. Susan shares how a gift-centered approach, forged in youth mentoring programs and refined across 600 companies, helps leaders move from command-and-control to connection-and-receiving, from brittle expectations to clear intentions, and from bottom-line myopia to a deep sense of belonging.
You’ll hear the unforgettable “Jack” story—a tech rep on the brink of being fired who became a force multiplier once his gifts were recognized and redirected into training and team enablement. We also dig into a bank team that grew its book of business by 60% in six months and hit 150% of goals by year’s end, all by shifting leadership presence, practicing gift-centered praise, and building systems that let strengths scale. Along the way, we break down five practical leadership shifts: connect and receive, see and accept, set intentions, lead with authenticity, and create belonging that aligns work with values and purpose.
If you lead founders, managers, or modern teams hungry for meaning, this conversation gives you precise tools: how to observe gifts beneath behavior, language for praise that sparks initiative, and rituals that make people feel valued and ready to contribute. Want more? Grab a chapter of Leadership’s Perfect Storm, learn about Youth Mentoring Connection, and connect with Susan for a free consultation.
Download a chapter of Leadership’s Perfect Storm, get the book (proceeds to Youth Mentoring Connection), or book a free 20-minute consultation at https://susaninouye.com/scalingpeople/.
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Welcome to Dealing with People, your weekly playbook for turning chaos into compounding growth. Each week we go under the hood with battle test experts in all areas of business, from marketing to sales, operating and financing people, plus product and leadership to unpack the plays, numbers, and systems that turn chaos into compounding growth. Learn straight from founders and experts who've done it and continue to do it successfully. There's zero fluff, just news that you can still immediately. This podcast is brought to you by Guide to HR. Human expertise, AI-powered impact. Welcome everyone to today's Scaling with People podcast. I'm Guinevere Curry, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. So, what if the secret to explosive growth isn't a strategy, but a greeting? In Zulu, Sabona means I see you. And that's exactly the kind of leadership today's workforce is starving for. In this episode of Scaling with People, we'll dive into Sabona Leadership Philosophy, a radical approach that puts human connection at the heart of scaling your business. Discover how seeing your people fully beyond roles and KPIs can unlock fierce loyalty, deeper trust, next level productivity. If you're ready to stop managing and start truly learning, then buckle up because this conversation is right for you and rewired the way you build your culture. I'm super excited to have Susan Inoue with me today talking about this. Susan, before we dive into this very unique topic, tell us a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Guinevere, for inviting me. I really appreciate it. You know, I think the theme that has always permeated my life is that I've always wanted to make a difference in people's lives. And it started when I was young, volunteering the missions, feeding the homeless on Thanksgiving Day. And doing those things for me gave me such purpose and meaning that I sought other ways to make a difference. And I discovered actually the transformative power of films to change lives. And I was fascinated. I ended up in Los Angeles, the film capital of the world, um, on scholarship to the University of Southern California, Go Trojans. I uh graduated with honors with a bachelor's in mathematics and a minor in music.
SPEAKER_02:I knew you were a good combo, since I'm also a math major.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. Yeah, and I did something more practical to please my Japanese parents.
SPEAKER_01:And several years later, what happened was is I entered a competition at the American Film Institute through the directing workshop for women. And what happened against all odds, I was one of a small select group of women that was awarded a$5,000 grant to do a 30-minute short. And my film solo, it went to festivals, it won awards, and I ended up in the office of Kathleen Kennedy, who loved the film, who was then the assistant to Steven Spielberg. And I thought my life would change forever. And it did, but not in the way I anticipated. I couldn't get hired as a first-time director. And finally, this TV producer who knew me, he pulled me aside and said, Susan, I hate to tell you this, but it's much easier to hire first-time men director than women. And I was crushed, but I was angry. And I reflected and I said, No, I really want to help people to transform their lives. And if I think about it, it really starts with me transforming my own. And so I started to study deeply and fiercely with people from the world of doing, teachers from the world of being. And one day, this business colleague of mine, she came up to me and she said, Susan, I have seen the positive transformation in you. And I want you to coach me. I'm starting my own business. Now, Guinevere, back then coaching was not popular. Yeah. And I I said, I said to her, Well, I don't know. She she was so persistent. I said, Okay, I'll coach you.
SPEAKER_02:But the roll of the eye for those that might be listening and not watching, right?
SPEAKER_01:So I did. She made her first million in her first year. Whoa. She said to me, Susan, this is how you're going to make a difference in people's lives. And for now, the past almost 20 years, I've been just very fortunate because I've worked with over 600 companies in 40 industries, everything from Fortune 500 companies to small businesses. And for the past 13 years, I've been focused on helping my execs and my senior managers better engage their young people, millennials, Gen Zs, through this kind of methodology that I discovered called Salbona leadership. And at the heart of it is really about helping them become better people and better leaders. And the byproduct has been, like for my clients, an increase in productivity, revenues, and profitability, sometimes by 50% in only six months.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. All right. So I got to ask, how did you discover this?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, so it was over 13 years ago. I started getting calls from executives. They were frustrated with this young generation, which was millennials at the time. They would say to me things like, like, who would quit their job, Susan, without another one to go to? Yeah. And uh there was so much pain and suffering between generations that I had to find something that would help them. And I was looking for something that was not just based in theory and academics, but really grounded in proven results. So one of my executive clients who knew I was looking, he said, I have your answer. So he took me to the ghettos of South Central Los Angeles and he introduced me to a man by the name of Tony Laray. Tony is the founder and CEO of Youth Mentoring Connection, which is a nonprofit organization. And he had been a very successful CEO. He had sold a very successful business. And for the past almost 10 years, he had been saving and transforming the lives of thousands of inner city millennial youth through his mentoring programs with unprecedented results. Wow. Yeah. And what I loved about it is he actually went into the community. He asked these young people, what would it take to engage with them? And they told him. And over the years, he created what he called the gift-centered approach. And he said, Why don't you come to one of my mentoring sessions and see it in action? And Guinevera did. And I was taken aback. Here was a community of individuals of all different generations, all genders, all ethnic backgrounds, and the deep connection that they had and the way they engaged each other that brought out the best and who each other was. I remember going up to him and said, Tony, I need to learn this. I need you to mentor me because I need to take this into the corporate world. I saw a way of not only helping my leaders with their young people, but creating cultures of belonging. And so he did. And I took into the corporate world over 13 years ago and started to turn around companies and cultures in a way that was long-term and sustainable. And today, Salbona and the gift-centered approach, and by the way, Salbona leadership at the heart is the gift-centered approach, means it's Zulu for I see you as in seeing the whole person. So today, Salbona and the Gift Centered Approach, it's in over 30 countries. Um, and it is the subject of my book, Leadership's Perfect Storm. We launched at the end of 2018, and it hit the number one bestseller in leadership and business management. It's all all over.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, congratulations on that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thanks.
SPEAKER_02:So as the listeners are going, okay, now I I this sounds pretty cool. What does this all mean? And maybe kind of give them a tantalizing like first step of like how to consider implementing this in the way that they approach their management and become true leaders.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So as I said, Salbona means I see you as in seeing the whole person. And we find that when we see and accept people for who they are, they actually see and accept us for who we are, and a different conversation unfolds. Not one where we're lecturing to each other, but one where we're listening and learning from each other. Salbona leadership was born out of the millennial generation, and it's what the young people gravitate towards. And the portal to enter is seeing the gifts and people. So maybe I can share you a story of one of my clients and it'll demonstrate. Would that be okay?
SPEAKER_02:I would love that, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Um, I'll call her Kathy. So Kathy was the director of tech support. And she had one of her people, tech reps, was uh Jack, who is a millennial. Now I was engaging, they engaged my services. I was not coaching her, but one day she came up to me and she said, Susan, I need your help. I don't know what to do. I'm gonna have to let go of Jack by the end of this week because he's not meeting his monthly quota of new customers served. And I've tried everything. So Kathy used what was used on her, which is the carrot and the stick, part of command and control. The carrot wasn't working, her incentives, the reprimands weren't working. And she said, I don't know what to do. So as we had talked and I talked to her about gifts, I finally asked her, I said, so Kathy, what are Jack's gifts? And she said, there was this blank stare. And this is not unusual because gifts are what we were born to bring naturally into the world. It's what we do without thinking about it, it's just who we are. So I reframed it and said, Why did you hire him? And all of a sudden her eyes lit up and she said, Oh my gosh, because he's not like any other tech rep. He doesn't talk down to people in that techie language. He texts, he talks in a way that they understand and he's good at gaining rapport with people. They ask for him by name. I said, Wow. And you're gonna fire this guy? Yeah, I know. And and and also, she said, he can solve any issue. He that's even the most difficult. And so other tech reps come and ask for his help. He's very generous, he's good at coaching and training them. She said, But Susan, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have to fire him because her boss was pushing him her to do this. Yeah, I said, wait a minute, okay, let's just step back and see a bigger picture here. So I said to her, let me ask you, what is Jack's retention rate on his customers compared to the other reps? And she looked at me, she goes, Why? I don't know. I said, Because he may be bringing on less new customers, but retaining more of his base. And he could be more profitable. And she went, Oh my gosh. I said, Can you find out? She said, Yes. So two days later she calls me, she said, Susan, you'll never believe it. Jack has the highest retention rate of all of the customers, more than any other rep, and he's more profitable. I said, Great, use this, go to your boss, buy you some time. So she did, and we brainstormed. And the first thing I always ask my clients in this kind of situation, because you have to be able to see the gifts in bad behavior, not just in good. I asked her, what are the gifts that are trying to come out in his bad behavior? And so we sit and talked about it, and she said, Wow, you know, he gains rapport easily with people. Um, so he talks on and on, right? He gains rapport easily, he can solve any issue, any complicated problem. So all the reps come to him. He is generous. That's another one of his gifts. He is detail oriented, he's analytical, he's good at training and coaching. So she started right. I said, Oh wow. So I sound like he should be a team lead or a supervisor. Right. I said, How can you redirect these gifts so they better serve Jack, you, and the organization? And she started thinking about it. She came up with a really good idea. She said, What if I had him create a training manual and gave away all of his secrets so that people wouldn't keep coming to him and he'd have more time to meet his quotas? I said, Great. And I said, Because he has the gift of training, why don't you have him train the entire department? And she went, Oh my gosh. I said, but first you have to go to him, acknowledge his gifts, and see if he's open to this. And so she did. Jack was flattered and said he'd be happy to. So we did many things, but bottom line, this was the results. The company got a new training manual. Jack trained the entire department. Productivity and retention went up, I mean, levels up. Jack, in breaking down what he did so well, naturally well, he found where he could be more effective and efficient. And he now started making his monthly quotas of new customers served. They had three consecutive years of record-breaking customer retention.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:And she was promoted from a director to a general manager. And all because she in bad behavior, she asks, what are the gifts that are trying to come out? And how do we redo redirect it so it better supports not only me, Jack, but the organization.
SPEAKER_02:You know what I love about that is it's looking at the positive. There's so many assessments out there that say, Oh, you don't do this well or you don't do that well, right? And like it really kind of redirects the brain of looking at things in the positive light, which I think the world just needs more of. And it's uh there's one assessment out there that I really like. It's called strength finders by Gallup. And it does the same thing, right? We focus on the positive and how as a group we have all this positive where our gaps might be that we could focus on improving, but ultimately it's not like looking down on you. And I just, as you're saying that, I'm thinking about how that's like it's turning a negative into a positive, and then that positive just shines and goes and just helps the business, helps the individual, helps the manager, helps the business. That's such a great example.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and looking for the gifts in people is a little bit different than looking for the positive. So looking for the gifts is looking for what they were born to bring into the world. And when you are able to see the gifts, so people have said to me, Susan, why can't we just do an assessment, get it over with? I know the gifts. I said, Because as a leader, you have to be in observation mode. When you're in observation mode and you're observing your people in the way they email you, in the way they text you, in the way they appear on Zoom, in the way they appear in person, you're looking, the actions point to their gifts. And now you're seeing it in action. How does that gift show up? And then being able to recognize the action, the gift behind the action and the impact gets them to find more ways of using the gift within the organization. That's why I love gift-centered praise, uh, Guinevere. It's different than just normal praise. When I say to you, like, for example, if you come and borrow a stapler of mine, and I notice that you put it right back in the same spot you found it, like in my drawer. And if I just praise you for, yeah, thank you for always, you know, you always put it back in in the same drawer. I love that. That's all you'll do. You'll keep putting back in the same drawer. But if I say, hey, thanks for putting it back in the drawer, I mean, your gift of organization is just off the charts. I really love it. Is there look for other ways that you can use that gift within the organization and help us because we really need to get things together. Now you'll look for ways to use that gift of organization. It's so different than praising just what they did, praising the gift behind it and the impact that it has on me and the organization makes you find different ways to use what is a part of who you are in the organization to make it better.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I that makes so much sense. It's beyond praising the action, but the the why or the how, why that person's doing it that way.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. So, you know, as I'm thinking about a founder who might be in the midst of a lot of things happening, what is one like maybe first step that they could take? I think I heard like observation, but what is one first step that they could take to help kind of shift their mindset and start leading in this capacity, in this way?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So why don't can I go over in the book I share with you? Because this is part of Sabona leadership. It's the leadership that leaders must make to be able to be 21st century leaders. And this came out of all the research experience, all the stuff that I've been doing for 20 years. Um, and so look, there are millennials have many needs. And although this book was through the filter of millennials, you'll find that it applies to every human being. Okay. Because every human being wants to be seen and accepted for who they are. Yeah. Okay. So when I've been talking and keynoting at conferences, millennials will come up to me, share me a lot of needs, but the three that keep echoing is they want to feel heard, they want to use their gifts, and they want to have meaning and purpose in their lives. Now, when I ask the audience that consists of every generation, how many of you want this too? Every hand goes up. Yeah. Because every person wants to feel heard, use their gifts, and have meaning and purpose in their lives. It's not a generational need, it's a human need. Yeah. And the way that we um they want to feel heard. So the way that we do this is to connect and receive. They they want to use their gifts. The way we do that is to see their gifts. And they want to have meaning and purpose. And the way we do that is to create a culture where they feel a part of something greater than themselves. And the steps that you're talking about is through the leaderships, and there are five of them. Okay. So the five, I'll say them and then I'll go over them briefly. So the first is from control to connect and receive, from conformity to see and accept, from expectations to intentions, from authority to authenticity, and from bottom line myopia to belonging. So if we take the first one, which is from control to connect and receive, in this day and age, younger people they don't like command and control leadership. They hate it. They hate being told what to do and lecture down to. Okay. So we transition into connect and receive. And connection is not communication or connectivity. It's how I feel when I'm with you. And receive receptivity is a very overlooked quality in leadership. We're taught that it's better to give than to receive. But building the body of a leader who can receive ideas, who can receive thoughts, who can receive help, who can receive criticism with openness and curiosity, is so important. Yeah. And the how of all of this is done, um, and maybe I'll share with you a story at the very end of this because it'll kind of bring it together, is through the depth of these practices that I have my clients do. Um, so the second one is from conformity to see and accept. Millennials have a saying, one size does not fit all. They want to be looked at as unique individuals, not part of a mass herd. Yeah. And they want to be seen and accepted and valued for who they are. And being able to see and accept and value takes a leader to really slow down and to observe their people, to be able to ignite what we call their emotional intelligence and sense what their people are saying underneath the words. Because most of the time we take the words, Barnana, she says she's fine, okay, it's great. But they're saying something else. And if you, as a leader, can't be a barometer and sense what's going on, you will not be able to anticipate what's around the corner when there are a few facts to guide you, or what your people are really thinking when they say one thing and they mean something else, right? And by the way, I just want to say something. There was a um uh survey done by Corn Ferry, it was their workplace survey, 50,000 professionals from 10 countries, and they said the number one driver uh of satisfaction and dissatisfaction is do I feel valued? Yeah, do you care about who I am? Do you see me as uh a transactional asset or a human in the moment? And by the way, what you pay me is reflected of how much you value me. Yeah. So that's yeah. And then the third the third one is from expectations to intentions. Expectations are our rules of how we think things should be done. And when people don't do things according to our rules, there's a lot of pain with leaders. And I tell my leaders, turn your expectations to intentions. So, for example, I expect, Guinevere, that if I give you training, you'll be able to do your job. And when you make a mistake, I have a lot of pain. But if I turn that into intention, intentions are within our control, it's within me. My intention is to help you be the best you can be by giving you training. Now, when you make a mistake, my intention is to help you be the best you can be. So let's talk about the mistake. Intentions open up the conversation to learning. It doesn't get the other person defensive, it doesn't close them off. From now, let's brainstorm and figure out what we could do better next time, right? I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And then the next one's from authority to authenticity. Um millennials are the first generation that didn't have to go through authority to get information. And this is huge. Information used to be the leverage point of leaders that they held over their people to make them do what they wanted them to do. But today, as you know, the younger generations have that information before their leaders. Yep. And so they don't respect you just because you have a title. What they do respect is authentic wisdom, experience, and information that they can learn from as long as you don't lecture down to them. And they feel like they can talk to a CEO the same way they talk to their, you know, business colleagues, because that's being authentic and they can do it in a respectful way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the last one from bottom line myopia to belonging. You know, millennials, and I think every person wants to have meaning and purpose in their work. That became huge in the survey that Cornferry did. That they want to have work that aligns with their values, their identity, and their sense of purpose. And that's just not millennials. That is this survey, by the way, was done from everything from entry-level employees all the way up to CEO. Every single generation said that. Huge. They want to feel a part of something greater than themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And they only have one life to live. Yeah. So many turns around the circle, as they say, around the sun, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And this is what keeps them loyal. This is what keeps them out there looking uh to help the company stay ahead of the curve. Yeah. And that's important. So um, can I share with you one last story? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So many good tidbits. I'm like, hopefully, people were listening really closely. I hope they are too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I'll give you this story because this story happened during during the downturn in the economy. So what happened was I got a call. I'll call her Samantha or Sam for short. She is the senior vice president and regional manager of a subsidiary of an international bank. And in 2010, I get a call. And um, this is when banks had a sullied reputation, you know. And she said, Susan, I need your help. Um, all my bosses are telling me we've got to be patient, that we just have to wait it out. But I think that there's something that can be done. If I could just increase our region's book of business by just a small amount, that would be better than sitting around and doing nothing. So I knew what she wanted to do, increase her book of business. And I said, We're gonna enter through this portal, which is you, meaning we're gonna help you become a better person and a better leader. And at the time she just looked at me and went, like, how does that have to do with what I want to, you know? But she was in so many, so much pain that she said, Oh, what the heck? Let's go for it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm serious. So I said, Great.
SPEAKER_01:She, I told her, look at this is the pebble in the pond effect. The better you become at being you, you're the pebble. I drop into the pond and you will ripple out to literally change everything around you. So she said, Okay, what do I gotta lose? Let's do it, right? So we entered through the portal of Salbona, gifts, and she discovered that the gifts that lied within her was she was very detail-oriented, she was very intelligent, she was financially savvy, she was good with numbers, she was very analytical, and she also discovered a gift that she had forgotten she had, which was she has compassion for others. But she blocked it with another one of her gifts, which was high standards. I was that one. And when I talked to her people, the comments came back. Oh my gosh, she never listens, because the other gift she has is drive and determination. So she constantly goes 80 miles an hour. They go, she never listens. We can tell her mind is elsewhere, she never receives the ideas that we have. We don't feel value because every time we see her, it's about what we did wrong. And her BD officer, business development officer Jim, said to me, She's the worst leader I've ever worked for. And by the way, you can tell her. And I went, Really? He goes, Yeah. Um, so in my first month of assessment, when we were talking, I just mentioned what Jim said, and she's out of her mouth came, I did not hire him. I went, okay, so a lot of friction.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So the first thing we did was we quieted her mind through practices, certain meditation practices. Uh, walk in beauty is one, walk and engage, sitting practice. And um, by the way, also I find out what a client is doing in their life, and I bring new distinctions to that so they'll actually do the practice. She walked in the morning. So I brought to her a meditation practice of walk and engage, which I created. So she started to quiet her mind so she could sink into her body and connect within, so she could connect and be present for her people. And little by little, she her people began to feel she was present and actually listening and receiving the words that they had to give to her. We also, in dropping into her body, we started to develop the intelligence of her heart. And by the way, this is all backed by neuroscience through practices of appreciation. And as we did this, um all of a sudden the compassion that was always there started to. Come out. And she started to see the gifts in her people. And she started to praise those gifts. And her people began to feel valued and seen. She brought this team together. And within we did a lot of things, but I'll just give you the bottom one. Within a period of six months, they had increased their book of business by 60% in a downturn in the economy. By the end of the year, they were at 150% of their goals. And they became the number one regent in the bank. And I'll never forget the day that she called me and she was in tears. And I said, What's going on? She said, I was in a meeting of my bosses, and Jim was there. That's the BD guy who said she was the worst leader ever. And I thought to myself, Oh my gosh, what did Jim say? Right. And she said to me, Susan, Jim said that I was the best leader he had ever worked for. And he told this to my bosses. And he said, She listens, she hears what we said, she values us. She gives us the freedom to use our ideas. And she said, I had no idea that becoming a better person and leader would lead to all of this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. As you're saying that I'm thinking about what was my favorite boss. And it was exactly that. He gave me that freedom. He heard me, he listened to me, he let me take my ideas forward. I felt valued, and it's exactly the same thing. It's like, you know, you you make sure people know that they're heard and seen, Sabana. And you know, the the gifts will keep coming.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think that the most of my execs, they have the gift of drive and determination.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:The other side to the gift that they're blind to and need to learn, they need to learn to slow down and be present and patient. Yeah. And it's hard for them when I say this, but I said, look, you are going 80 miles an hour or nothing. You know, they crash on their couch. Yeah. I said, in between zero and 80 or 100 are all these other speeds that you have to be able to navigate through because it's at those speeds that you absolutely start to notice your people. And they feel like you care about who they are. Yeah. And that's so important.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love that. Well, Suzanne, thank you so much for coming on and sharing this amazing method methodology that you have uh instilled in all of your leadership and coaching that you're doing. I definitely learned so much from you. I hope our listeners have. Uh as a wrap up, uh, we'll definitely put a link to your book, but is there any other uh message you want to get out or how people can contact you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there is a one page that we created, uh, Winevere, and they can go to, I'll say it and then spell it. It's Susaninoway.com forward slash scaling people. So S-U-S-A-N-I-N-O-U-Y-E dot com forward slash scaling s-a-l-in-g P-E-O-P-L-E. And they'll find a one page and three offers. They can yeah, they can download a chapter of my book, they can get the book, it'll drive them to a link on Amazon. And just to let you know, all the proceeds go to the nonprofit organization, Youth Mentoring Connection, who gave me this years ago. Love that. And the third is they can contact me um and set up a time, just ask me questions. I give free 20-minute consultations. So anybody who has any questions or want to know more, sign me up.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. We'll put all those links into the description of our podcast as well, so people can access it easily. Uh, thank you again so much for your time, Susan, and your knowledge and wisdom. It was so great hearing from you and all the examples you shared. And thank you again for joining us. Thank you, Guinevere. For the listeners for listening, and I hope that you got a lot of takeaways on this one for sure. And can't wait to have you join us again on our next podcast next week. So thanks everyone. See you next time. That's a wrap for today's episode of Scaling with People. If you got value from this conversation, do me a favor, share it with someone building something big. And hey, I'd love to hear your take. Drop a comment, shoot me a message, or start a conversation. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss the bold unfiltered strategies we drop every week. I'm Gwynery Query, founder and CEO of Guide2HR, where we help high growth companies feel smart with people for strategies and AI powered systems that don't just keep up. They need. If you're building fast and want your HR to move faster, head to guide2hr.com and let's talk. And remember, scale isn't just about speeds, it's about people. Until next time, have a great one.
