Scaling With People
Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!
Scaling With People
Rethinking RTO, Hiring, And Culture with Nahed Khairallah
Want the truth about RTO, hybrid, and remote without the noise? We cut straight to the work: define how value is created, then choose the model that best serves it. With guest Nahed Khairallah, a veteran HR and scaling leader who’s supported 150+ companies from seven to nine figures across multiple regions, we dismantle assumptions, expose the traps leaders fall into, and lay out a practical path to better outcomes.
We start by flipping the debate. Instead of arguing over office days, we map work to value chains and ask which activities truly benefit from co-location and which thrive async. That lens reveals when hybrid can deliver leverage—and when it becomes an expensive way to sit on Zoom. We get specific: design collaboration rituals, align space and calendars to those rituals, and be transparent about why some roles are location-flexible while others must be anchored. We also unpack the perception risks of vague policies—how fairness gaps echo through morale, Glassdoor, recruiting, and even sales.
Then we tackle hiring. Nahed shares repeat failure modes: rushing when overwhelmed, redefining roles mid-search, and running inconsistent interviews that can’t compare candidates. We offer a concrete fix you can use today: gather stakeholders, define the role’s place in your value chain, set observable success criteria for 30/90/180 days, separate must-haves from teachable skills, and build a structured assessment with a work sample and shared rubric. For roles outside your lane, bring in a subject matter expert to test depth and execution so you avoid buzzword hires and shrink ramp time.
Finally, we talk culture—the compounding force most likely to make or break your growth. Culture isn’t a handoff to HR. It’s what leaders model, what they measure, and what they tolerate. Reverse a remote commitment or mandate office days without logic, and you teach the org that opinion beats evidence. Codify principles, connect them to planning and feedback, and keep decisions tied to outcomes like cycle time, quality, and revenue per head.
If you’re building fast and want your people practices to move faster, this conversation gives you a clear playbook. Subscribe, share with a founder who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest RTO or hiring myth—we’ll tackle it in a future episode.
Welcome to Skilling with People, your weekly playbook for turning chaos into compounding growth. Each week we go under the hood with battle test experts in all areas of business, from marketing to sales, operational finance, and people, plus product and leadership to unpack the plays, numbers, and systems that turn chaos into compounding growth. Learn straight from founders and experts who've done it and continue to do it successfully. There's zero fluff, just moves that you can still immediately. This podcast is brought to you by Guide to HR. Human expertise, AI-powered impact. Welcome everyone to today's Skelly with People Podcast. I'm Gwynavere Curry, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. All right, buckle up founders because today we're talking about a triple threat that can make or break your startup. Hiring culture and okay, hold on, guys. Where the heck your team should actually work. Yes, I'm talking about the RTO. Our guest, Nahead Corolla, has seen the inside of enough rocket ships to know exactly where founders threw this up. Okay, I said that. You know what I'm talking about. I'm calling you all out and how to fix it. From hiring misfiers that stall momentum to culture mists that need to die already to finally making sense of the remote versus hybrid versus in-office chaos. Oh my gosh, I'm already triggered. Nothead's bringing clarity, strategy, and a whole lot of truth. Okay, guys, if you're ready for this, let's dive in. Nothead, welcome. I'm already like getting anticipated as goosebumps here, but before we start talking, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, thanks for having me. You have me fired up already, so I'm ready to go. So uh yeah, a little bit about me. So I've been in the HR space for the past 15 years, uh, been helping companies scale from seven to nine figures, have done it in the US, Europe, Middle East, and Africa, have worked with over 150 companies over my career. So a long track record, have done it as a consultant, also done it as in-house. Um, and I've helped companies really solve a lot of problems that impede their scaling from their culture to hiring the right people to where they work and a lot of things around that. So um I've I've been I've been doing this for such a long time, and I've seen a lot of successes, a lot of failures. And, you know, hopefully in the conversation today, we can help founders and any business lead really understand um, you know, some of the things that they might be doing today that could hurt them in the future, things that they potentially don't even recognize at this point, uh, and maybe try to share some of you know the learnings I've had with these 150 plus companies over the years and help them give shortcuts really on how to get past some things that could really hurt their organization.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. And you and I are so in line with all of that. Uh, we're very similar in what we do and offer. So, okay, let's get into this because I'm not gonna be a tease like the news and tell you what they're gonna tell you and then keep telling you before they actually get there. Let's just talk about it. RTO trigger, I should actually put a trigger warning on this podcast, right? Um, you know, whatever your stance is, you can go out and find articles and data points to prove you're right on any side. So I'm curious, what is your perspective?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I I love that question. And it's to your point, it's such a debate because you can you can contextualize the data to towards any argument based on how you look at it, right? And if anyone who understands data very well, data is really going to be conceived based on the context you put around it. Uh, the same the same information can change, meaning depending on the context you look at it from and the inputs you bring in. So my stance, and this so I'm gonna start with my stance, but also what I've seen work versus not work. My main stance is that it's the we're having the wrong conversation about whether it's actually RTO or hybrid in office. What I usually guide companies on is that forget that question. Start with how do we need to work as an organization? What do we need to be doing day in and day out that helps us achieve our goals, right? And when you start having that kind of conversation, the way in which you work and where you work becomes an extension of that. You don't start by saying, I want everyone in office and then we'll figure things out, or we want to be remote and then we figure things out. There are pros and cons to each model. And it depends on if it fits for your organization, it's gonna depend on what are the things that are gonna help you move forward versus the things that can hold you back. Like, give you a small example here. If you're an organization that needs global talent and wants to optimize on cost of talent or even global exposure, then you're automatically discarding in office, right? It it's it's an it's a non-starter because that model on its own doesn't allow you to be global and be very efficient as a startup, right? Um, if you're an organization that is delivering an in-person service where that is only where it could happen, then you're eliminating the remote aspect. So for me, that's where the conversation is. How do we need to operate as an organization? How do we need to deliver value to our customers and where can we do that the best way? And that is where the discussion moves forward.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so Naheed, I think this is exactly the right approach. What is best for the business? What does the business need? And what is going to be the right way to work to end up getting to those goals you're looking for? And you're calling out like the global, global workforce, even cost effectiveness versus in-house. And I also find that the hybrid style is very challenging because I find founders feel like, oh, that's a good compromise, right? I get the people in the office, they get a little bit of flexibility, but or I should say however, that doesn't necessarily solve for what the business needs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the hybrid is an interesting one because hybrid, to your point, it's it's sort of this compromise model that is a little bit of this, a little bit of that, but not all the way there kind of thing. Um look, my my take on hybrid is that a hybrid only makes sense if you have the operating infrastructure and ways of working that that make sense of it. So where companies have gone wrong with hybrid is that they have tried to transplant what people were doing remotely during COVID and brought it back to the office. Like I have actually seen companies force people into the office where they ended up actually getting on Zoom calls. What are you doing? Right. I mean, you just found a more expensive way of doing something you were doing remotely. Like, congratulations, you know, you're burning cash. Good for you. Um, there's the other model that I've seen also where with hybrid, I mean, I saw this with a with, I'm not going to mention who the company is because I I've worked with that company, but this was a large company around a thousand people, right? They're pretty large from from a startup perspective, pretty growing, growing pretty quickly. They started bringing people into the office uh and mandating, you know, that three days in the office and so forth. They didn't even have enough desks in the company to for for the people coming in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So that too.
SPEAKER_00:The thing with hybrid is that you need to be very, very specific and very intentional about what are the things that you can do very well in a remote environment that you necessarily need to do in office and in person that are more efficient, that give you more better value, but also the compromise of coming in office actually outweighs doing it remotely. There needs to be always this prioritization. And this becomes an exercise of very nitty-gritty focus on really just dissecting everything you do as a company. And and I focus on what are the value chains in your organization? What are the things you do in the company that adds value, either to your product, to your service, to your customer? Because if you're if you're forcing people to come in to do things which don't add any value, you're not doing yourself a service. So hybrid for me, it needs to be very deliberate. It's the reason this has become a compromise, or even coming back to office is this legacy and archaic mentality of leaders wanting to see people actually working to believe that they're actually working. It's this old mentality of you know, clock in, clock out. And if I don't see you working, means you're not adding value, which is which is really not realistic in today's knowledge-based economy anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. I mean, I I in my past history, I've known plenty of people who clock in and clock out and probably give you 20 minutes of productivity. And yeah, the people at home are giving you 10 hours of productivity, right? So just because you see them doesn't mean you're getting anything out of them. I also find that the struggle is how you treat people fairly and equally. You know, I have a customer right now who is going through all this and um, you know, working with some of the hiring managers. I've actually had one hiring manager who's like, it is so not fair that I'm seeing that we're hiring these people all over the place. And yet I'm being told I can only hire in office. Why am I not allowed to hire the same way that other leaders are, right? And so being very distinct, very clear on what is that. I mean, for that instance, salespeople, they can work anywhere. They're flying around, they're driving around, they're going to customers. So who cares where they're at? Because they wouldn't even be in the office if they're there in the first place, right? And so being distinct here, right? If you're in the office, you're probably not doing your job too much, right? I mean, I obviously you got to do your leads and all that kind of stuff and follow up, but you know, being very clear and transparent with your leaders at all levels, right? All hiring managers on why we've made this exception for this group of people, but for the rest of the org, it's not. That's where the communication piece is so important to make sure everyone feels like they're being treated fairly and equally, and understanding why you have an outlier and why it's best for the business.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I'll add to that something that, and this is a case I've seen also with many, with many companies I've worked with, is when you want this kind of separation between which role actually needs to be in office versus not, you need to be very clear on why is the case. Like you need to have a very rock solid case and be transparent about it. Because if there are components of a job that only can be done in office to be done effectively and in a manner that is satisfactory, then you need to be very clear up front with it and be very specific as to why it is the way it is. And also, you know, be very transparent about it and clearly separate that from other roles. But also you need to keep in mind that in a company where there's a hybrid, to sort of eliminate that feeling of, you know, we're not being treated the same way or we don't have the same opportunities. You need to also factor in a lot of other things, right? Like how are you compensating remote roles versus in-office roles? And we know what are the perks you're granting here and there, and and how are you actually going to level the playing field between those roles to make sure you're also providing a consistent employee experience, regardless of where they are. So there's there's a lot of things that come into play as well. But yeah, you need to start from a place of transparency and clarity.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of uh leaders, founders, CEOs, leaders out there that are looking at in-office, hybrid, remote, you gotta also think about the fact that that you create that structure, communicate it, be consistent, be clear, right? Because at the end of the day, if there is a perception that certain roles or certain people are um, you know, not being treated equally. And I could say, you know, whether it's gender, it's age, it's uh, you know, race, whatever it might be, you could end up having a perception of discrimination in your org that you didn't even mean to create.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:I tell founders all the time, perception is what matters the most when it comes to employees and how they're going to interact and engage in your company, how they're going to produce what they're saying on glass door, which it can impact your company not only at the employee level, but at your customer level too. I've had I've worked with CEOs where you know the first thing they want me to work on is that because they are having potential customers tell them they don't want to work with them because of what's on Glassdoor, right? And all we're talking about is whether someone should be in office or not, and all of a sudden here we are impacting your revenue.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I mean, you you hit it on the head there because when you start from a position of subjectivity and vagueness, and this is this to me is the biggest problem with the whole RTO debate, is that regardless of all the data that's there, and any I challenge any company, and I've worked with a lot of them. A lot I will challenge any company that mandated return to office to show me proof that it actually made them better or it actually resulted in better revenue by isolating specifically that change, right? Not because the market dynamics happened or they got acquired or something. Um, there are none because a lot of it has been pure subjective opinion from whoever's the decision maker. Hey, I want people back in the office and it's gonna happen. Or I want people to stay remote, it's gonna happen. There is no evidence today that tells you one model is absolutely better than the other. It's all contextual, it's all based on what your business needs to succeed. But when this whole situation around, hey, let's come back to the office, and which happened randomly overnight from companies who actually committed to staying remote. Right. Yeah, um, it was it was mind-blowing because uh it showed when when you commit to doing something, then you reverse uh very quickly. It clearly states you don't know what you're doing, and you're not basing your opinions and decisions on fact, you're basing it on opinion. Opinion is not fact, opinion backed up with data becomes fact, um, which is what we're lacking here. So for me, this whole debate of RTO and it just flawed just because the the questions and the conversations are not happening where they need to. It's really about optimizing the model for your work and for your company. It shouldn't matter to you if all of your competitors are in office or not. It's about what's works for your business and how you structure work in a way that optimizes the use of whatever model you're gonna choose.
SPEAKER_01:I'd even challenge that if uh, you know, a founder or leader is saying, oh, well, because everyone else in my industry is doing that, so should I. Why don't you differentiate yourself? Man, exactly. You could be the differentiator in your industry. And and maybe they're all remote, and that means you need to go in office. I don't know. I'm not saying, I'm not saying one way or the other, but differentiate yourself. That could be the key to opening your uh business up for some major skill coming through the door because they don't want the opposite of your what everyone's doing in the industry, right? Um could even open the door for your potential customers and revenues too. So um I always want to say when I hear a CEO say, well, I've talked to some other CEOs or founders and this is what they're doing. So we're gonna do this. I'm just like, oh my gosh, no, like that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be good for your business. We like it's fine, go talk to others, learn from others, hear from others, but then put that in a in a place where, okay, now let me put on my business lens. What is best for my business? Where am I trying to take my business? And I go back to what you said. What is gonna work? How do we work at this company to execute on those goals to get to that story that I need to go and sell to the investors or that I'm gonna, you know, that we need to have before we can IPO successfully or sell successfully, whatever the end result is you're trying to get to. And and really think backwards on that.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So uh I think uh that I love that mindset, and I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that from you. Um okay, so now that we're over that hot topic, I'd like to dive in more with you about um, you know, what like the hiring myth like misshires, because this is another area where I think, especially as young founders, maybe someone who hasn't ever run a business at a CEO level, maybe has been a leader in their past life, maybe not, but they're a founder now, they're needing to scale their team, they're needing to hire people. I see so many times when I come in, a founder saying, Oh, I've mishired in this role so many times, I don't know what to do about it. Um, so I'd love to get your take on maybe like you know, a couple things that founders and listeners can take away to help not have a missed hire. And I know that's a broad topic, right? But love to get your take on it.
SPEAKER_00:No, I appreciate it. And and I can focus on a few big ones that I see really almost every single time. Because yeah, there's a laundry list of them, but there's a lot of them which I think you and I can write. Exactly, exactly. But without fail, there are there are there is a group of things that I see every time. So, first off, like let's take a step back here. First off, hiring in the early days of a company is a little more organic than as you start growing a little bit. Like once you surpass that 20 to 25 person mark, hiring becomes a little different because you know, initial initial early stage companies, if you look at the team generally, it ends up being from you know, founders' networks, people they went to college with, friends, so forth.
SPEAKER_01:Friends and family, which obviously is a little dicey. I mean, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, exactly. I mean, there's there's there's the good ones and there's the bad ones, and depends on how you approach it, right? But in in most cases, what happens is that um there's a relationship that has been built, there's a foundation of trust trust which is there, and to some extent they know what to expect. And there's some passion about the organization, what it's doing, and everyone's wearing multiple hats to the point where um you're not focusing way too much on one thing they're doing and so forth. So you get by, and and the goal is really survivability and and just you know getting on the map in the beginning. When hiring starts becoming a bit of a chore for founders is really when once they start hiring people that they don't know anything about, um, right, uh they're trying to fill gaps and capabilities that they just don't have with their internal team. The biggest thing I see typically as a mistake is that founders run towards hiring whenever they feel overwhelmed by anything, anything that they don't understand or think that they're not equipped or their team is equipped to do. The first thing they think of is let's go get someone. And typically it happens with a sense of urgency to where they try to cut a lot of corners. And what do I mean by that? The sense of urgency, I call this like the false sense of urgency because a lot of times founders they are so excited about what they're doing. And to them, every second, every minute is so critical, where they equate uh leaving a vacant position open for any extra day is a disaster. This is gonna tank the business. And I understand where they're coming from because ideally, when you're a small organization, every role, you need Michael Jordan's in every role, because if not, then it's gonna be very difficult to move forward. You need to be super efficient and super surgical and super effective. So they they go out and rush through hiring and they cut through stages, meaning they don't vet people properly, they don't take the time to actually articulate what is this role actually gonna be doing beyond the next three months. Yeah, because I see a lot of short-sightedness with hiring initially. So there's hasty hiring, there's the short-sightedness of what of the role's viability and why it exists. So a lot of times where I see founders jump into jump onto hires very quickly, there's a short shelf life for the position that could have been filled maybe by a consultant or a fractional person as opposed to a a full-time role. Um, so the other thing I see as well with with founders uh early on is that they change what they're looking for mid-process all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh, second trigger, second trigger. Right, right. So true. Oh my gosh. When I see that when I see that of the time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. When I see that happening, my advice usually is okay, stop hiring completely. Because the reason I say this is because if you are exhibiting this behavior, it is clear you're not sure what you're looking for, right? Not only on who's the best uh person or or persona for this role, you don't know what you're hiring for to begin with. Like what is what is this role going to be doing here? Because uh this comes from a few places. Uh one is you didn't take enough time to understand uh what your business needs and where this position fits into the grander scheme of things, but also you haven't spent enough time to determine what is the best uh who is the best candidate in terms of skill set, but also in terms of culture fit and personality and so forth that fits this role. When you're switching your uh um that checklist of requirements you're looking for, and it's it's it changes with every interview, with every candidate you see. And you know, whenever one other person on your team talks to someone, they're they change your opinion or or or it changes the entire you know nature of the role, it means you're not ready to hire because you haven't taken the time to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, and and let me just add a little bit to that because I I I've lived that so many times as well. And I think the the reality is like some a lot of founders, I just have to go fast, I just have to go fast, I have to go fast. And what I liked, I hope that the founders listening take this away. Sometimes slowing down actually allows you to move faster because you aren't making so many missteps, and at the end of the day, month, three months later, you're in the right place instead of still like having the wrong person in play or having taken too much time to like hire this person and that doesn't work, bring on another person. So slow down, it does actually let you move faster in the long run.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, definitely. You you you you pointed out something interesting because if you make a mishire, think of the impact it has when that will just doesn't work out. Not only are we talking about the cost of hiring, like the the dollars itself, but when you're when you're a small organization, sub 50, sub 100 employees, even sometimes, every person who leaves takes a chunk of knowledge with them. You haven't already set in stone processes and knowledge management, you know, strategies and so forth, where every person who leaves, bringing someone else in and having and really ramping them up to where they need to be is such a time suck for everyone involved, given you already have limited resources. So this is it's derailing your entire roadmap, generally speaking.
SPEAKER_01:Um, create a roadmap that is sending you in the wrong direction that when you do hire the replacement, they have to spend time blowing that up and starting all over again instead of just having a fresh slate. And let me also add, it takes away your uh reputation as a leader because now your employees feel this yo-yo effect of I have a new manager. No, I don't. I have we have a new direction. No, we don't. And it just like it eats away, erodes your leadership uh persona. And, you know, ultimately that could actually lead to retention issues for that particular department or even beyond, right? Because your employees, no matter what department they're in, they see, they see those hires. They see them, especially when you're, you know, like you said, sub 100, even like I'd say sub two or three hundred employees see it. And uh, you know, I mean, you gotta it it has such a ripple effect when you have this mishire.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed, agreed. And and last thing I'll add into the whole hiring thing is that one very common mistake I see is that the whole hiring process and actual interviewing is random. What I mean by that is that if you're hiring, let's say, for a business development manager, every candidate will go through maybe a different kind of process, talk to different kinds of people, even be asked different kinds of questions or even text it on different things. That is not comparing apples to apples. If you if your goalpost is moving throughout the process on what you're doing and and how you're doing it, like how are you evaluating fit? If that's if that is changing with every candidate, means that, well, again, you're not sure what you're looking for, but also you're setting yourself up for failure. Anytime I see a process like this, it's like winning the lottery if you actually find a good candidate using that. Um, yeah. So those are the things that you're gonna do.
SPEAKER_01:You add in the location, right? If you're in office or hybrid, you add in what you can afford versus what this person is expecting or requiring, and you're just like in a world of hurt. Okay, so now we've we've we've talked about the problem. I'd love to talk about some of the ways that leaders can think about how if they're seeing, okay, I'm in this, I'm in this situation. How do I get myself out? What should what's like one or two things that they could do to either not get in this situation or if they find themselves in this, to get themselves out of it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, very good question. So the first thing that the there's one piece of advice that solves most of this stuff that I give folks really, because they're all interconnected in hiring, right? It's all really a snowball effect. If you if you start off wrong by not understanding why this role exists and who you're looking for, the whole the whole thing's a mess. So the first piece of advice I give to people is that as a founder, first off, identify who are the stakeholders in the organization, right? Those key people that are integral to this role's success and who will interface with that role very frequently. Work with that team to define first what is this job doing, which we call the job description, right? But also I take it a step further. Identify which value chain processes and things that you do as an organization that they will touch and what is their specific role in there. Are they accountable? It's like think of a racy chart, for example, right? What are they going to be held accountable for? What does success look like for them? And how are we going to be able to identify success when we see it versus failure when we see it?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Those are things people usually think of after the fact of hiring, right? For me, you need to start with these before you even advertise a role for hiring. Because if you're not clear on those things, you're again, it's going to be a coin toss or like winning the lottery if you find the right person. For me, I think these are the baseline things you need to do as a founder. And only when you're clear on those things are you able to actually have a chance of hiring successfully. Because those those inputs and that information is going to determine everything else you do in the process. It's going to be the anchor point for you to actually look back on and anchor what's going on in the interview process. If you're doing, let's say, on the job uh, you know, testing, you know, case study, small project, whatever you want to do with someone, um to evaluate their their fitness on a technical and behavioral level, you have something to anchor to. And not only yourself as a founder, but anyone who's involved in the process that becomes the source of truth. So we we are all looking to benchmark any candidates we talk to to that standard we've set. Now, there are cases where, especially when you're an early company, you might be describing a unicorn that maybe does not exist. But during that process, you can identify what are the must-haves versus the good to have versus the things that, hey, if all the stars aligned, I would love to have. But you also set yourself up for success because you know what are the things that you will just not give up versus the things that you're wishing to you are able to live without and things you can grow over time. That I think is the single piece of advice I give to every founder that really resolves most of their problems when it comes to hiring. And it just minimizes the failure rate tremendously because you're starting from that common point uh of truth as opposed to you know just randomizing it and just you know, seeing what just go with the flow and see who we find.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And I'd add to that too. I mean, you talked about two things. One is a founder typically, especially initially hiring some leaders and some people, they're probably doing so in a way where that's not my subject matter expertise, that's not what I should be working on. I don't have any experience there. So let me go out and get someone that does. Oh, I don't know what they need to do because I don't know, right? So take that moment and bring in a specialist, bring in an advisor or an interim or fractional or a consultant to help you and learn what you need for your business and help you actually create that job description, right? Because even if you go to the team, I think that is absolutely right, go to the team. But some of those team members might also be young enough in their career that they don't know what is what a leader should be doing or what good looks like. So take that moment and opportunity to spend a little more time, spend some money and get it right the first time around. And then even bring that person in that you've hired as a technical interviewer, they're the subject matter experts. I don't know anything about marketing that, you know, except what I've learned from my own business. So I if I was to interview a marketing person, they could say anything and I would think it sounds great. But if I have an expert who's interviewing that leader and knows those are just buzz buzzwords and how to dive deeper to see if this person actually knows what they're doing and how to execute on it, then you're gonna find someone that's stronger for your business.
SPEAKER_00:No, 100%. And that's something like when you said that, just triggered me in my mind that a lot of the customers I worked with that were growing, and once they sort of grew out of like the fractional or consulting thing and you need a full-time person, I was usually the first person they thought of to sit on these interviews and help them, you know, articulate that to because to your point, they don't know that stuff to the level of depth that someone like you or me does, but they could use our advice in helping them find the right person. But at the end of the day, there are some elements that they're gonna know better than we do. But from a technical standpoint of who can be successful, who has the baseline requirements to actually succeed in the job from an HR standpoint, yeah. And same thing for other roles, 100% agree with you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think we could probably chat all day about this. We we obviously love what we do. But Nahid, anything else you want to share with the audience before we wrap up today?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, uh one one last thing I will say um on on the cult on a culture piece, because yeah, hiring is great. And as long as you get it right, that's amazing. But also where you work is important. But culture is one of the things I see fall off a cliff sometimes as companies grow. And a lot of it stems from founders and the founding team thinking that, well, culture is now the responsibility of HR once we have someone in HR, or the responsibility of someone else. No, it actually becomes more of your responsibility because you are the anchors of that culture. You're the ones who drive it, you're the ones who live it. If it doesn't start with you, if you if you outsource that to someone else or you delegate it, it's not gonna work. So that is the what I tell founders all the time is your goal as you grow is you want to hire yourself out of a like day-to-day tactical job, but the people side of things become such an integral part of your success. And you will learn that the hard way if you don't, if you don't do that early on. You will you will see I've seen this many times where people have actually been the failure of companies, not their product or finance or anything else. It is the people side of things that have led to their demise. Um, so yeah, I'll always focus on that part. Don't think that you can delegate this and just forget about it. Just let's just bring in an HR person and they'll handle it. It's always going to be a part of your your mandate and it's actually gonna grow over time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's kind of like when you think about you're building your business, customers, clients, whatever you call them, are coming because of you and what you're selling and how you're selling it and who you are because of what you believe and what you're building. It's the same thing on an employee front. They're being hired because of the what you believe in and your passion, what you've created, and they want to be a part of that. And if you start to get farther away from them, it's gonna cause hardship for your business for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I feel like again, we could talk about this all day long. But uh thank you, listeners, for joining us. I hope that you got something out of it. If you did, leave a comment, follow, subscribe, join us on the next call, and we'll see you next time. Thanks so much, everyone. That's a wrap for today's episode of Scaling with People. If you got value from this conversation, do me a favor, share it with someone building something big. And hey, I'd love to hear your take. Drop a comment, shoot me a message, or start a conversation. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss the bold, unfiltered strategies we drop every week. I'm Gwynberg Cuery, founder and CEO of Guide2HR, where we help high growth companies scale smart with people for strategies and AI powered systems that don't just keep up, they lead. If you're building fast and want your HR to move faster, head to guide2hr.com and let's talk. And remember, scale isn't just about speed, it's about people. Until next time, have a great one.
