How To Build Trust With Benefits That Fit Your People with Oksana Lukash

Ping pong tables do not build trust and wellness stipends do not fix a broken culture. We get real about the messy intersection of employee benefits, wellness, culture, and retention, and why the “perks” playbook fails when it is copied from companies with totally different people, pay realities, and business goals.

I sit down with Oksana Lukash, a seasoned chief people officer and leadership advisor, to unpack what actually makes a culture scalable. We talk about culture starting on day one, showing up in every decision and every conversation, and why leaders have to be honest about expectations so the right talent self-selects in. We also dig into the hidden damage of “culture subtraction” hires and why protecting team dynamics is not soft, it is financial.

Then we shift into practical employee benefits strategy: working with a strong benefits broker, using utilization data, running short pulse surveys, and designing coverage around your real workforce demographics. We explore why meeting basic needs through compensation comes before any wellness program, and how high-impact benefits like fertility or adoption support can beat the ROI of many traditional retention tactics. We also highlight the underused lever that changes everything: ongoing benefits education, so employees can confidently use tools like HSA, FSA, dependent care, and retirement plans.

If you’re a founder, HR leader, or operator trying to scale without burning people out, this is a playbook you can use immediately. Subscribe, share this with a builder who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest question about benefits, culture, or trust.

Transcript

Welcome And What To Expect

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Skilling with People, your weekly playbook for turning chaos into compounding growth. Each week we go under the hood with battle test experts in all areas of business, from marketing to sales, operational finance, and people, plus product and leadership to unpack the plays, numbers, and systems that turn chaos into compounding growth. Learn straight from founders and experts who've done it and continue to do it successfully. There's zero fluff, just moves that you can still immediately. This podcast is brought to you by Guide to HR. Human expertise, AI-powered impact. Welcome everyone to today's Skilling with People Podcast. I'm Glenadir Grey, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. On today's episode, we'll be diving into the messy, powerful intersections of benefits, wellness, culture, and trust, the stuff that actually determines whether your team skills with you or quietly burns out. Our guest today is Oksana Lukash, and she has over 20 years experience inside high-growth companies as the chief people officer, as a business owner, and also leadership advisor. And she's built a reputation for translating human behavior into real business results. If you think perks and wellness programs are the answer, think again. This conversation gets into what it really takes to build trust, healthy teams, dynamics, and a culture that can scale without losing its soul. So join us today as we talk about all this great, fun benefits, wellness and trust.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, no, thank you, Guinevere. Um, you did a fantastic job. So Oksana Lukash grew up again in HR, never written it was never on my bingo card that uh that was gonna be my career, but I love it. And the way uh I describe what I do is I love to help companies and founders build experiences that are worthy of the talent. Um, and again, it's specifically that, right? I think talent has so many options of what they want to or what they can do with their time and where they can take their skill sets. So I think companies really need to start focusing on creating those experiences and environments that attract people and that again, individuals can see themselves again growing and staying with the company and benefiting from that relationship.

The Copycat Benefits Trap

SPEAKER_00 2:29

That makes so much sense. So, you know, through your experience, what's the biggest mistake founders and business leaders make when they think about benefits, wellness, and culture as a whole?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Oh, um, start really big there, right? I know, I know. I think again, um, what it is is we are so obsessed with comparing ourselves as individuals and companies to everybody else. I'm actually even using now the term Frankenstein. And we take a little bit of what we're hearing, right? Whatever's on the Wall Street Journal, whatever Forbes has said, whatever's trending on LinkedIn, whatever all these big, for example, tech companies are doing, and we're like, oh, we're gonna do the exact same thing. But what we don't do is really look inside to see what are the needs of our people. Because again, right, what works for Meta and what works for Google, yes, it might work for you, but it might also not, because your makeup of your talent and employees is your own. So focus internally first and build around that versus again, just chasing right the laser pointer and trying to copy what everyone else is doing.

Culture Starts On Day One

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I still agree with that. I always say know your audience. Like you go out, you're selling your product, your services, your company, but you've got to know your audience who's gonna actually purchase, right? And it's the same thing, know your internal audience, know your employee audience. Yeah, you've got to understand people are not necessarily, we're not made the thing. And even, you know, now even post-COVID, it seems even more extreme of like the individualization of everything. So I think that is spot on for sure, is really understanding who your employees are and also what they're looking for, too. So let me ask you this in regards to culture, you know, I find that founders often think culture is something that you install once the company gets bigger, but obviously you and I both know it's not true. So when do you do you think culture actually starts forming in a company?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Day one. Culture is first of all owned by every single person. It is culture is in every single decision that is made. It's in every single conversation, it is in every single route, it's in every person that you bring into your company. It is what gets celebrated, what gets tolerated, what is allowed behind closed doors. So that's why it is crucial to be very intentional and very authentic and unapologetic of what you want it to be from the very beginning. I think a lot of folks also, because culture is now such an overused term, automatically think that it's the warm and fuzzies and it's right the potlock every Friday, and it's the holiday party, and it's, you know, giving the company swag and right all of those things. No, it doesn't have to be. Your culture could be that, hey, we're beyond high performance convers or company, right? We don't do warm and fuzzies. The expectation is we work 18 to 20 hour days, and it is kind of right, eat or be eaten, and right, we reward super high performance and potentially right back into the old GE days. Hey, if you're the bottom 10, 20%, we do cut you everything. That can be your culture, and that's absolutely fantastic. But then own it. Own it in all of your decisions, own it in who you decide to partner with, who you decide to do business with, own it in how you describe your company and the interviews that you hold with, again, the talent. So then that way, those individuals that absolutely thrive in that environment can come and join you. And those that don't can self-select out. That's what it's about. Versus if you are building a company where what you do and how you do it has to be that right uh beautiful mix and a blend, then again, describe it that way. So I think that misinterpretation of what culture that it's again copy and paste and it's the one-time thing, or that one person owns it, is again a huge misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I can agree more. I think the thing that I always talk to movers and founders about culture is that it's your way of setting the expectation of how you want people to show up and how they can expect you to show up in a work environment. I kind of equate it to, yeah, I have a social event on my calendar. Okay, well, if you don't tell me what kind of social event is it, do I need to eat before I go? Do I need to dress up, dress down? Do I need to actually like, is it a costume party? Is it a, you know, or is it a networking party? Is it a is it a funeral? Right? Like, if I don't have context into how to show up, I'm not gonna be able to do what you expect and me and me to do and why you hired.

Culture Subtraction And Real Costs

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Right, right. Same as and fantastic points, same as I think it's super important. And then and again, I understand confidentiality. I understand that leaders, depending again what industry you're in, depending on if you're public or not, that there's certain information that again is on as need-to-know basis, and not everyone in the company is able to know. But I think it is very important to over-communicate what you can and when you can um share additional info. So, again, example, if you're a leader of an organization and your again, goal is to ramp up the company to a certain size and sell it in an X amount of time. And that is something that, right, you obviously can't predict when that would happen, but that is the goal. I think again, that's important to share because that's part of your culture. So somebody that might be looking for a role where they can be for five, 10, 15 years and then retire and go into the sunset, and stability is super important for them. Probably the right, the person wants to know so they can choose something else versus another person that is gonna come in, that is okay, again, working crazy hours, wearing 27 different hats in one day learning more than they write in that experience than they probably would in another company in 20 years, they would be so happy. So, again, own who you are, be very clear about it, and again, build everything the way you were and operate around that. And you would attract, again, the people that will thrive and take you to that next level. And right, you would have less uh misunderstanding, less um regrettable turnover, less right turnover within the last the first 12 months and all those issues that again take time and energy.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, absolutely. Uh it's so fun because the culture is kind of a hot topic for me right now. I'm actually speaking at the Founders 2.0 conference in April about culture. And uh yeah, this is such a fun topic. Especially when you think about the fact that, like in the recruiting side set that you have, you're really thinking about the culture and having someone come in and add more value into your culture, not just be a fit, right? You don't want that, and you want someone who's gonna add more to it, and really making sure not to have someone that's a culture subtraction, which happens so frequently. I think that's really important for founders to understand the financial and tying impact it can have on a business. I just watched a founder hire two leaders and uh complete culture subtractions, and that company is now failing. It is that big of a deal. Like it's just unbelievable how and right, I think really culture is like overused. It's like the you know term everyone's like, oh, holy culture. And I agree, like it's like it's not about the the ping pong and the pizza at lunchtime. It's really uh making sure that you're setting the right, again, expectations for people. And I just can't, I I really want founders listening, they'll really understand it's not the fluff. It is really telling the person they're going to a funeral or they're going to a costume party because the mindset of that person is gonna be completely different. And they might not want to go to a funeral. And some people don't like to dress up, right? So if that, like you said, it's like letting themselves select out, which saves you time, a founder, hiring manager, to not get excited about someone who's ultimately gonna fizzle out. Again, waste time if you hire a person, right, that doesn't want to be in wearing 27 hats and working 20 hours a day. If that's not the right fit for them, they're gonna fizzle out and you're gonna have to start all over. And now you lost time. You spent money, and now you're gonna spend more money, and you haven't even gotten to where you need it being.

Use Consultants To Protect Culture

SPEAKER_01 11:40

And the ripple effect, right, of the individuals that they might have impacted during their time with the company in a negative way. And potentially you might have lost talent that you can't afford to lose. And I think the other thing I wanna, yeah, another thing I wanna point out is we are for some reason, again, so confused and assume that everything that we do is an or, that it has to be this or that. And I think actually, very few things in our lives are an or. Most of it is an and. So I think if we look at it from that perspective, I completely understand that founders and CEOs and leaders are going to be in positions in their organization at a certain point of growth where they need a very unique set of talent and skills and expertise that actually write the what you do, it does become more important than the how, even in that culture where the how, right, is a very big component. And a lot of times, again, the leaders are like, well, what do I do? I want my culture to be preserved and continue evolving and growing, but I also need this. And I'm like, and I can't find a person that has both. And that's where I think, why are you thinking the or? You can bring somebody in as a consultant, you can bring them in as a resource for a project where you have the best of both worlds. Because then with your teams, you can set guardrails. And at that point, you can say, look, here are the expectations for both right, your internal team and this individual that you're bringing on board. And you can again put your arms around it where they're focusing more on what they're doing, and the rest of the team might actually be a little bit more understanding of the quirk or right their approach if they're a little prickly in again how they're doing things, knowing that again, it's for a short period of time. And in no way, shape, or form is a justifying right inappropriate behavior that should never be tolerated, but you can explain and you can't have again, you're not destroying your culture and you getting the needs of the organization met, and then you move forward right and are able to um continue to grow and evolve as needed.

What Support Really Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, I love that. That's such a great perspective. It's it's thinking outside the box, right? But we don't have to stay in this box that when we put ourselves in, we really can actually think outside and do something unique and different. And even then, it's like what you're saying is not necessarily unique and different, but a lot of companies still have not used this gig talent that's out there in all aspects, in all areas and functions of the business. And sometimes that is the right way to go because, like we said, you need that skill set, but you don't want it to negatively impact your culture, which has a long-term ratification, versus like getting that person in, having that skill set impact and be able to push the company forward, and then they're off and doing their other thing and you're safe for when you're I love that idea. It's such a great idea. All right, so let's flip a little bit over to um perks and wellness and benefits. And a lot of companies they'll add a lot of perks and wellness programs, hoping it will improve engagement, uh, thinking that their employees want it. What do leaders often misunderstand about what actually makes people feel supported at work? Because a lot of times I get leaders like, oh, we'll just throw another perk at them or give them another lunch, or you know, like I don't know. It's crazy what they come up with. And it's like that's not actually what their employees are looking for, right? What have you seen about that, John?

Meet Basic Needs Before Perks

High-Impact Benefits And Retention ROI

Benefits Education That Changes Behavior

SPEAKER_01 15:27

First of all, before you add anything, understand the why. Why you adding it? Um, this might be controversial, but I stand by my opinion and experience. Get the CFOs out of benefit making decisions. They should not, they should only be, in my opinion, involved and come in if it's a significant cost increase the organization and write a have conversations from that perspective because they are responsible for the overall right finances of the company. Um, and then another thing is absolutely be unapologetic and get the best benefit partner from a broker that you can't. It is not somebody that talks to you three times a year, right? One time leading up to uh the open enrollment meeting, during the open enrollment meeting, and then after. It's your open enrollment for benefits every year should be check the box. It's everything that you do throughout the year that is going to give you information of what needs to happen during open enrollment. So, this is where um between the benefit broker and your people team, look at different ways to slice and dice your right population in terms of demographics. Understand things like right, the gender makeup, the age makeup, and the groups, right, of employees that you have. That's where it's important to understand what your company is going through. Are you growing? Are you staying about the same? If you're growing, what are the areas that you're growing in, right? Based on, I mean, again, most companies have um partnerships with LinkedIn, right? From the LinkedIn recruiter and the insights um things so they have access to the data, you're able to see what does a certain talent pool in the area that you're gonna be, let's say again, engineering or finance that is currently available. LinkedIn can tell you where they based. Again, the gender makeup, they can tell you approximate right age groups of that talent. So use that. Also, I think it's so important to do more um shorter pulse surveys, check-ins throughout the year with your employees versus the one long one once a year and the benefits that everybody is dreading. Have again your broker slice and dice all of the utilization data. What are the actual doctors that your employees are going to, right? Of what are, again, the needs that they go um for? It doesn't break it down obviously by the individuals, but that can help you. So, for example, in one of the companies, I remember we um had a dental plan that on the paper looked incredible. I think it was like$3,000 a year that it covered, right? It was a PPO plan, like all the things. It just looked incredible. When we looked at the actual utilization of the doctors that our employees went to, over 70% of the dentists were out of network. So our employees outside of paying for the dental benefits through their paycheck also then had to pay a ton of money because most of the work was not covered. So we worked with our broker, we switched to a plan that only covered$1,500 a year, right? The cleanings were included, blah, blah, blah. But it covered almost all the doctors that our employees saw. So to them, yes, on paper the benefit got caught in half, but they were actually able to utilize and have more coverage for the work that they were already getting done. Other things, um, so for example, I don't know how many benefit brokers do this. I do know Gallagher does, and I'm not pushing anybody, but Gallagher does this analysis on your entire population. You would just provide area code zip code for um each person, their, I believe, um, yeah, it's just zip code and their pay, right? What they make annually. There is no identifier information in terms of age, right, social security, employee number, anything. And they look at where do your employees live and what are the social and economic um factors that impact that area. So for example, right, I'm based in Orange County, California. You're very familiar with the area, and we have a city called Santa Ana. It is, I think, one of the most highly populated cities, very density-wise per square foot in the United States, or in the it's in the top 10. Um, it also is a city that multiple generations tend to live together. The crime rate is higher. There is more individuals that are relying on government assistance, food stamps, other things like that. So the reason I bring that up is if you have an individual that's living in one of those zip codes that is also now making a living wage that actually cannot even barely cover their rent, because that assessment looks at the average rent in the area and provide food for their family, you can offer whatever benefit you want. It's never going to land with them because they're not even having their basic needs set. So that's the understanding of are we compensating our people in such a way, first of all, that meets their basic needs. And you can do even simple things like if you find out that you don't, of bumping up somebody's pay, right, a couple of bucks an hour, making sure that maybe you're doing more regular comp check to ensure, right, that you are assessing someone's performance and again aligning their compensation accordingly. Maybe again, based on the role that those individuals are in, come up with an incentive plan that if let's say they're on the manufacturing floor, safety is super important, right? Uh, reduction in the errors is very important. Very important. So maybe come up with, hey, we go X amount of time without any safety incidences, right? Everybody gets X amount of a spot bonus. Or somebody identifies an issue and a way to improve the process that reduces our error rate, right? Incentivize people that way. So there's benefit to the business and benefit to them. And then it is potentially being creative of do you have a pantry, um, a food pantry in your organization? Where all of us, we've all been in companies that do the food drive, right, for um various foundations. Maybe you have a regular one within your company until you bring people up to where they need to be. And then look at things if majority of your population is in the kid age-bearing age, and most of them have shared that they are looking to start a family. Look into the benefits that support that. It seems so expensive, right, on paper, that let's say we provide$40,000 for IVF um right treatment per employee and we're a company of 100 employees, or we again give$40,000 towards adoption. Um, it seems insane. But also, like you brought this point up earlier, if this is an first of all, out of 100 employees, you probably would maybe have two or three that will utilize that benefit. So that's the reality of it. That's$80,000 to$120,000. Again, a company of 100 employees spends more on a trade show with also questionable results because it's also very difficult to write track to see what's your return on investment for the trade show. Also, let's say that employees, for simplicity of the math, is a$100,000 employee that they make a hundred K base a year. We know that if we lose that employer or we're paying at least 2x, their base salary, to replace them, and that's a key employee. So we're okay already having a lost song cost of$200,000 to say$40,000, that doesn't make sense. And we focus on retention, we focus on engagement. Now think about the fact that if you as a company are the reason somebody realized their dream of having a family, and there's no way they would have been able to do it without you because if you're making 100K, 40k is a lot of money. And now you gave that to them. Do you really think when that person is having a bad day at work, they're gonna throw in the towel that quickly and leave? I don't think so. Exactly. So I think that's where we need to stop also making decisions, policies, and rules on the five or 10% of troublemakers and really flip that on right, the 80 to 90 percent of people that are going to do the right thing, that are absolutely going to appreciate it. And then write other examples. If you do have again a large population of your employees that maybe are now caretakers for elder family members, then look at benefits there. But it's understanding what's going on with your employees, it's understanding how they're using the benefits and aligning that. If you have majority of your company is sales uh people across the entire US and they love HSA because of the right, the triple tag benefit, then offer an HSA, right? With a with a contribution that you do, it saves the company a ton of money, they're happy. That's what I mean. Focus inside, audit your again makeup of your employees, ask what their needs are. And guess what? If you ask your employees what their needs are and they start seeing the result reflected in the benefits that you offer, first of all, you're never gonna have to answer the question, how do I force my employees to use the benefit? Because if their meet needs are being messed, they're using them. Right. And they're gonna continue giving you more insight and right in what it is that they need and don't need. So you can make very smart decisions with your benefit broker and be again, create a think outside of the box. And again, when again when you meet people where they are and their needs are met, like that's magic.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

I love all of that. And I will just add one little added flavor there is the education piece. You talked about working with the broker. The other thing the broker can really help you that a good, amazing broker is going to help you on the education piece. And it's not just a one and done, it is a constant education piece. Having them help you with the onboarding, like creating a really great onboarding uh video or deck or whatever documentation to help really get like the new hires to understand all the benefits. But then it's for the 6098 day check in, it's when is the 401k take in? Let's educate them on the four, two weeks before. It's the deadlines of the HSA, FSA, well, more FSA and dependent FSA deadlines, right? Of you got to use it or lose it. Let's educate them and make sure they understand so that you're actually white loving that a little bit. But the more education, the more realization people have. And I've seen that in my past. I came into an organization where I think they were like I don't know in the teens, low teen percentage on the FSA, uh dependent FSA. And it was, I was young in my career and I was like, what is this? This is pretext money. I'm gonna actually be able to save money, not give it to the government. Okay, I need to get educated on this so I can educate my employees. And then I just started counting it. Now I was like in orientation. Uh every three months I was telling people, don't forget, make sure you sign up, but don't forget about this. XYZ, here's how you can use it. Oh, by the way, we just got another ad. I remember when Massage Envy was a place where that you could use your FSA. I was like, oh, sign me up for that, right? And so anytime where I'm like, I don't have to give my money to the government and I can benefit from it, I'm all over that. And over the period of time, I got up to, I think we were in like the 60, 70 percentile of participation because people didn't know, didn't understand it, didn't know the benefit. Why would I want it? And I and we also had, you know, in your audience, we had a lot of college grads come in. And so, look, don't don't max it out. You're not gonna need it, right? But you're gonna go see a doctor and you may have a prescription, maybe you get sick and you need cold medicine. And hey, you like maybe you break their break their ankle or you need a wrap or you want to have a massage or whatever it might be. And so, even with that, it was like, we don't have to max it out, but just put a hundred bucks in, save yourself a little bit of money, you're gonna spend it pinpool. And then the next year, what'd they do? They doubled it. And the next year, and then you know, they grew and they got into a different life cycle, maybe they got married, maybe they had kids, and all of a sudden now they're maxing it out because they knew about it. So, education is a key piece of it here.

Personalized Guidance For Every Employee

SPEAKER_01 29:31

And I yeah, thank you for bringing it up. And I think again, what the huge difference maker is find a broker that has dedicated individuals to your account so your employees can get to know them and they can get to know your employees. Don't do a 1-800 number because if somebody again has unique needs, if somebody also feels like, hey, I kind of don't understand this, and maybe it's a stupid question. You need to create an environment where they can call somebody and feel supported and they can have somebody actually walk them through and ask them the questions because going back actually, right? I'll pick on my bonus daughter. She is right, college age, she's 22. But again, I would love for somebody to sit down with her because she probably would say, Oh, I don't really go to the doctor that often. I probably again wouldn't need to put$100 in. But I would want somebody to be like, okay, cool, totally makes sense. Let's talk about do you wear glasses? She would say yes. Do you wear contacts? She would say yes, right? How often does your prescription change? For her, sometimes it's twice a year, right? So then let's go back and figure out how much does each appointment cost? How much does you pay out of pocket for your glasses? How much are your contact lenses? Now let's figure out all of the yearly appointments again, right? That we do the women wellness check, whatever else it might be, right? Let's talk about dental. Let's talk about again, do you take any prescription medication? Do you have allergies? And the reason I go that D is because we, I think, again, not think, we are an autopilot most of the time. And we don't think about those things, right? Same way as if I asked you right now and said, Hey, Guinevere, let's talk again in a month. And I would love to hear all the projects throughout your career that you're the most right proud of and why. You're gonna have a fantastic list in a month, and you're going to have amazing examples because you've had time to just sit in it, and your brain, probably in the middle of the night in the shower when you're driving, is gonna come up with those examples. If I ask you that thing question right now and give you five minutes, you're more likely gonna be like, holy smokes, I have five minutes, I gotta come up with this, and you're just gonna give me something completely different. Yeah. That is the same. If you have somebody kind of walk you through all of that, and now again, going back to my 22-year-old bonus daughter, that same individual goes through with her and be like, so now let's say you put right$500,$760 in FSA. Let's also look at your potentially right 401k. Should it be a 401k? Should it be a RAW? And have those conversations and again guide somebody collectively, right? That's what we need to start creating in companies, is creating that space and providing resources for each individual to safely be able to call somebody and walk through their needs, the needs of their family, and figure out how to make their dollars work for them. If you make right$16 an hour, 2025, or if you're making right half a million dollars a year. Every single person is able to participate in all of those, not when you're making right significantly more. Right now, today, and it all adds up. So that's, I think, where are we feeling as organizations? We want the stable CZ button. And it's not about that because now your employees are going to be more invested, more, they'll have more understanding, they'll make again different decisions, and they can continue putting themselves and their families in better um situations.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Uh completely with all of that, Oksana, and I feel like you and I were very passionate about this topic and could talk for hours, but I do want to recognize that we're at time and just want to wrap up. I think again, I think the key things are knowing your audience and educating them, constant touch points. I think those are kind of like the key things. Any other key points that I missed from that?

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah. So yeah, focus internally. Focus internally, create those relationships, listen to the needs of um your talent in the company. Don't ask why, right? Don't question or shoot the messenger. If something keeps coming up over and over and over and over again, and automatically think of ways to possibly again compromise and get to a happy medium if you're not able to offer right exactly what your employees are asking for, let them know why. Try to figure out a happy medium and see if that is something you can work towards in the next couple of years, too.

Share Subscribe And Work With Us

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you, Anxana. This was fun. Um, and for the listeners, I hope you got some good tidbits about how to go back into your organization and make some positive impacts. And again, you know, even if you're at the end of this conversation thinking, oh, this is still all fluff. The reality is the ROI is so strong. It is a cost-effective measurement to keep employees happy, but keep the right employees in place. And move those employees are going to move the noodle for you and get those products and services out faster, higher quality, retain your customers, get new customers. It all has a trickle effect. So don't think this is fluff. It is really important. And thank you last honor for joining us today. Uh, for those listening, look forward to having you join us on our next episode in a week. See you then. Have a good one, everyone. That's a wrap for today's episode of Scaling with People. If you got value from this conversation, do me a favor, share it with someone building something big. And hey, I'd love to hear your take. Drop a comment, share me a message, or start a conversation. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss the bold unfiltered strategies we drop every week. I'm Gunnar Cuerry, founder and CEO of Guide2HR, where we help high growth companies scale smart with people for strategies and AI powered systems that don't just keep up, they lead. If you're building fast and want your HR to move faster, head to guide2hr.com and let's talk. And remember, scale isn't just about speed, it's about people. Until next time, have a great one.