Why Most Branded Podcasts Fail Before Episode One with Roger Nairn

Most branded podcasts fail before episode one.

Not because the audio is bad, but because there’s no strategy behind it.

In this episode, we sit down with Roger Nairn, co-founder and CEO of Jar Podcast Solutions, whose team has built podcasts for brands like Amazon, Lululemon, RBC, Deloitte, and Wharton School.

We break down what separates a strategic branded podcast from expensive marketing wallpaper and why “just start a podcast” is some of the worst advice founders and marketing teams hear.

We get into:

•  Why trust is the real advantage of podcasting 
•  What audiences actually connect with 
•  The authenticity problem killing branded content 
•  Why polished but safe conversations don’t retain listeners 
•  How executive-focused podcasts drive thought leadership and pipeline 
•  The metrics that matter beyond downloads 
•  What listen-through rate reveals about audience engagement 
•  How internal podcasts strengthen culture across hybrid teams 
•  Where AI and video are changing podcast production and distribution 

Roger also explains why the best podcasts are designed with a clear business objective from day one, whether that’s recruiting, customer trust, brand authority, or long-term relationship building.

If you’re a founder, operator, or marketing leader trying to create content that compounds instead of disappears, this episode is for you.

Follow Scaling with People for more conversations on leadership, growth, systems, and building companies that scale without breaking.

Transcript

Welcome And What To Expect

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Scaling with People, your weekly playbook for turning chaos into compounding growth. Each week we go under the hood with battle test experts in all areas of business, from marketing to sales, operation, finance, and people, plus product and leadership to unpack the plays, numbers, and systems that turn chaos into compounding growth. Learn straight from founders and experts who've done it and continue to do it successfully. There's zero fluff, just moves that you can still immediately. This podcast is brought to you by Guide to HR. Human expertise, AI-powered impact. Welcome everyone to today's Skilling with People Podcast. I'm Guinevere Crairy, your host and founder and CEO to Guide to HR. So most branded podcasts are glorified wallpaper. I have Roger Nearn, who is here to blow that up. Today's episode, we're getting into how brands turn podcasts, audio, video, internal shows, and people for storytelling content into real business assets that can shape culture, sharpen marketing, and actually move the funnel. With a guy who's done it for names like Amazon, Lulumon, RBC, Deloitte, and Wharton. I'm so excited to have Roger on the show today. Roger, introduce yourself to the audience and welcome to my podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Thanks so much for going over here. Hi, everyone. I'm Roger Nairn. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Jar Podcast Solutions. We are a company that helps brands build podcasts that uh that actually influence decisions. So it's not just about downloads, it's about actually hitting a goal and meeting an objective of what that podcast needs to do. Um I'm based in Vancouver, Canada. Um, my team, though, happens to be working all around the world. Looking forward to chatting with everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Awesome. Well, thanks, Roger.

Hire Smarter People And Trust Them

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So as a founder, I'd love to put you on the hot seat before we dive into the topic and ask, uh, you know, you've built your business. You say you have about 20 people, I think, and um, you know, growing the business. So as a founder, what is a lesson learned you'd like to share with the audience today?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

My biggest lesson has uh, you know, since day one, it has been to hire people that are way smarter than you. Um be okay with that and um let them do what they're what they've been hired to do and and and you know, stay out of their way. Uh if you if you don't trust them, then you haven't done your job in the first place. Um so take your time to hire the right people. But once you have, really um let them do what they were meant to be doing because um they can they can they can do magic when you let them uh when you let them run with things.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, a good leader knows hire smarter people, give them the tools to succeed, and then get out of their way. I love that. Yeah. So okay, diving into

Vanity Podcasts Versus Strategic Shows

SPEAKER_01 2:43

the topic. Everyone says start a podcast. I mean, I even worked with a past CEO who was like, you have a podcast, how do I start my own podcast? I'm like, well, what do you want to do? Right. So you say most shouldn't. What separates a strategic podcast from a vanity project?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yeah, so to me, a vanity project is always gonna be about the brand. And and and you know nobody wants to listen to a podcast uh about the brand. Maybe if it's like, you know, the history of a brand, but nobody wants to talk about the the products and services that your company offers. If they wanted that, they'd read a brochure. Podcast is such an intimate medium that nobody's ever gonna sit down and listen to you talk about yourself for 30 to 45 minutes. Much like a dinner conversation, you know, anybody that talks too much about themselves is is is not a very good person to be, you know, sitting next to at the at the table. Instead, you want to be really interested in your audience and what they're interested in and craft content, craft a podcast that is made for them. That you happen to be uh uh you happen to be um knowledgeable on topic and and perhaps nobody can speak better on the topic than than you as a brand. But really dig into the audience first and understand uh what it is that they need. Um, and then what can you deliver in the in the form of a podcast?

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I love that. And especially when you're thinking about a founder, they have limited time and budget. So when they're being told to do a podcast, I I always kind of wonder, like, well, what are you trying to accomplish? And I guess for me, I wonder like when someone comes in and says, Oh, I've been told to start a podcast, I'm a founder, I need to do a podcast. Why should they invest in a podcast instead of doubling down on a paid ad or sales hires?

Why Podcasting Builds Business Trust

SPEAKER_00 4:25

So yeah, I mean, let's be honest, there's a you know, there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world right now, and the business space is is just as crazy. You know, we we're looking at you know what we probably call a K economy right now. The thing that brands need to focus the most on is building trust, because without trust, you have nothing. You have uh, you know, without trust, you have no ability to sell anything, you have no ability to uh you know interact with your audience, change people's minds. And so if you're focused on building trust, there's no better uh channel to be you know present in than podcasting. And especially when when brands are so um you know focused on just building content for content stake, or sorry, content for content's sake. Um very few are building trust in a way that shows up in you know sales or hiring or leadership. And so that's to us the the main reason why you should be creating a podcast. And I can go into the details of how a podcast creates or you know, builds trust, um, but for the most part, that is our to me our our number one reason to get into it.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Well, let's do it. I'd love to learn how does a podcast create trust, especially like I've been doing podcasts for a while now. It feels a little bit black hole-ish. There's not a conversation back and forth, there's not a dialogue, it's just someone listens and they move on with their life and they may or may not get something out of it. How do you build that trust?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah. So, first of all, podcasts, like I said, are intimate. Um, you are you are subscribing to the show versus it being broadcast to you for the for you know in the first place. So uh you're seeing a podcast that's of interest to you because of a certain topic that you want to learn more about, or you want to perhaps be entertained on, or you want to perhaps be um uh you know a part of a part of a community around. And so you subscribe to a podcast. Now that podcast happens to be brought to you by your brand. So that's that's the first thing that's you know, getting that hook in there as far as you know, creating that trust with, you know, building that trust that you have, you know, between you and the audience. But then there's the actual uh act of listening or watching, you know, let's let's focus on listening. You know, the actual act like right now, you and me are essentially sort of whispering in each other's ears, and we're having a very sort of intimate conversation in the sense that it's just you and me talking to one another. I know there are lots of people that are listening, but they're also having intimate experiences listening to us as well. They're sitting down in their own time, they're saying to themselves, I'm gonna spend 30 to 45 minutes or maybe an hour on this topic. Um, I I only have this certain amount of time, and I'm going to invest in myself and learn about a certain topic. So now's my time to do so. So you're having that, again, that intimate conversation. But then there's the hosts themselves. You know, because of that intimate nature, you do have um uh, you know, an incredibly strong connection that you're building between your audience and that host, again, because of that one-to-one nature, um, but also because of the personality of who they are and the knowledge that they bring to the table. Um, and then there's the aspect of the content itself. Now, this is where a lot of brands will sometimes slip, is they'll they're saying that they're gonna build a podcast that's not about the brand, and that's great, and and and you know, that's that's awesome if they do that, but then they also need to still be authentic and have real authentic conversations and perhaps sometimes dig in some holes that they might not be comfortable in, because those are creating authentic conversations, you know, debating certain topics, having certain conversations about things that maybe are not as uh, you know, maybe are not as accepted at the boardroom table, but it's what the audience expects. They want to hear uh nuance, they want to hear, you know, A B type conversations. Um, and so if they can lean into that, again, you're building more trust uh with with that audience. And then there's the actual topics themselves. Are you delivering on the uh, you know, are you delivering on the value proposition that you've that you've you know essentially communicated that this podcast is going to be about? Are you talking about these topics and bringing on the best guests around those topics? Are you uh are you really um investing in exploring this topic, you know, and and and making sure that uh you know you're uh enhancing the listener experience? And then there's a whole bunch of other things as well, but you know, we've only got 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah,

Measuring ROI Beyond Downloads

SPEAKER_01 8:56

exactly. So I'm curious, like around strategy and ROI, right? Obviously, as founders and business owners, we want to know what is the strategy and where is the ROI on it? So what does a high performing podcast actually do for the business in regards to like pop pipeline, brand, recruiting, something else, all the above? What is it actually, what could it actually do for the business?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah. So a lot of times you'll hear um, you know, podcast agencies talking about downloads and and impressions. And those are absolutely you know beneficial to a lot of brands. And that is something that you are gonna see uh a huge um you know lift in is just awareness. Um for us, especially if we're talking about trust, we're really talking about engagement. Now, when we think about engagement, we thought we think about the listen length or the watch length of each podcast episode, which is something that you're able to measure, whether it's through audio or video. And so when we're able to look at the analytics of a show, we can tell how long are the audience members listening or watching to each episode. Um, we can see where they're skip, you know, where they're jumping off, where they're skipping, where you know, where they um where they typically start the episode. I mean, most are at the beginning, but sometimes they skip an intro. The thing though is that if you are you know tallying and keeping track of those analytics, each month, if you're doing your job right, uh you can report back to you know your boss or yourself that each audience member is spending hours with the brand. Now, that is unmatched engagement. I think the only other marketing tool I can think of is locking people in a conference room for an entire day and not letting them out. But you know, that's not as that's that's not always uh that's not always something that they're volunteering to do. Um so there's the engagement side of it. And then you're also measuring um, you know, just sort of mid-funnel sort of education, thought leadership, uh, which you can be doing through, you know, surveys and and uh a few other different measurement uh tactics. We we love doing brand lift studies to determine sort of how the podcast has impacted people's um uh perception of the brand. And and you know, I'll give you an example. We did a up, we do a podcast with uh with uh Amazon called uh this is this is small business. Uh reason that they wanted to create a podcast is because it's around sorry, I'm bumping in my microphone. The reason that they wanted to create a podcast is because it's about 70% of their products sold on Amazon are are actually just sold by small business owners. You know, Amazon's now just the engine which helps these products get sold. And so they wanted to increase their relationship with these small business owners. So we crafted a podcast for them called this a small business. It's meant as a resource, a tool for small business owners. It teaches them everything from you know how to create a partnership to how to nail down your you know, accounting to how to build a personal brand. You know, it's very, very broad in in the education, but super high value. When we um did a when we did a brand lift study, we uh we asked the question sort of how do you how do you feel about the the Amazon brand? Uh we we talked to small business owners, uh we did a sort of a before and after survey and it it it turned out that the So we did it, we did we did a before and after survey and actually saw uh it was about a 35% jump in in brand lift and brand perception um you know between those small business owners and and Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

I

Internal Podcasts For Culture And Alignment

SPEAKER_01 12:23

love that. And so, you know, I'm I have my HR hat on thinking about, you know, we we talk a lot about marketing and external marketing, but as an HR professional, we have to deal with internal marketing. And that is, you know, how do we um educate our employees? How do we keep them, you know, connected to our goals and what we're doing as a business? So, how can um founders potentially use podcasts? And is there such a thing as like an internal podcast to help align the teams, reinforce culture, reduce communication drag? Like, is there an opportunity where founders could actually flip the script debate and do an internal podcast? And what would that look like?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, now is is the best time to do it. I'm sure you're familiar with the Edelman Trust Barometer study that just came out. So it comes out every year, but it looks at all the major institutions in the world and and sort of measures how they're doing on public trust. And you know, one of the one of the very few positives that came out of the report was that um was that people see their company, the you know, the company that they work for as uh you know an organization that they do generally uh trust. So they they go to that company for information. And and you know, because of that, uh there is a there is a desire and there is a need to learn more from your company, from your business. Uh we're so used to you know, online modules and emails and and you know the occasional sort of letter or email from the president or CEO or different heads of your division. Those are so boring and they just don't get the engagement that they that they should. Um, we've had a lot of success working with brands uh internally on their podcasts. You know, we've worked with Lulu Lemon, for example, who had uh you know an insanely large business globally and still has um that was growing. They have a really, really big culture in and around their head office, which is in Vancouver, but they really don't have a similar culture globally because of that, you know, the fact that they're not on the West Coast and there just is a there's a vibe around the the head office here that was being missed globally. And they do these really great speaking events. Um they call them the leadership series, where they'll bring in, you know, Seth Godin, you know, great writer, or they'll bring in different influencers and they'll bring them on stage. And so what we did was we recorded all those talks, and then immediately after the the um the talk was over, we we we set up a podcast studio to the side of the stage and we had our two hosts interview whoever the guest was, and they they went deeper on the different topics. Uh, if you've ever listened to the TED Talks podcast on MPR, it's a good example of uh sort of similar style. And then that podcast was packaged up and put in the intranet of Lululemon behind, you know, behind the firewall and pushed out to their global staff. Now then the global staff feels like they're kind of in the room and they're part of that experience. And we had a ton of ton of engagement. Um, similarly, we did uh a podcast for uh uh a credit union that was uh merging with another credit union. So now they had you know a new combined, you know, sort of uh a global staff, and that global staff needed to learn the new vision, mission, and values of this combined entity. So we created crafted a podcast that essentially communicated the six different pillars that every you know staff member needed to understand. Um there's a there's a number, there's really no rules when it comes to what you can do with an internal podcast. But also keep in mind that you know people are on the go, they're traveling, they're they're commuting, um people work you know hybridly, they're they're kind of working from anywhere these days. And a podcast is a really great medium to them for you know for them to again have that intimate experience and in and and enjoy, you know, when they're ready to enjoy it versus something that's a little bit more broadcast out to them.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

I love the idea too, because when I, you know, in my past, I always was like, okay, how can I video, get a recording from my leaders, um, you know, and make it kind of really professional and sharp. But I love this idea because it feels more authentic. It's a conversation. Maybe it is like, you know, the HR communications or marketing person interviewing the leaders. And so you have that kind of back and forth banter and it feels a little bit less scripted, but you're still getting the message out and it feels more authentic. I love this idea. I wish I'd had this a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

You can still do it. You can still do it. You know, we we we just launched uh a podcast again with Amazon where they're they they've got a number of CEOs. Um, but in this case, uh one of the CEOs who's he's responsible for everything, shopping related. Now you can imagine how crazy and big that is. It's everything from the website to the delivery bands. Um, you know, he's come up with a podcast where he interviews key leaders within the company. So he's actually the host himself. And he's on purpose, you know, it's not scripted at all. He's got some points that he wants to make sure that the audience understands. And we've also given him, you know, a little bit of a roadmap going into every episode, but uh there is that level of authenticity where he is, you know, coming out from behind the desk and and getting out into the factory and meeting people in different parts of the office and traveling in some cases and and really sort of bringing some of these people that you wouldn't necessarily see or hear from um into a bit more of a casual environment while still you know educating the uh the audience, which is their their global staff.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah, that's so awesome. And I know we kind of queued up a little bit about the fact that you know your content could and should be people first, tied to your brand, of course. But like when you're emphasizing people-first storytelling, why does that outperform product first content in especially in

Audience-First Storytelling Beats Product Pitches

SPEAKER_01 18:17

today's market?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Well, I mean, it it doesn't necessarily have to not be product first content at all. It's just more take the time to understand your audience first, you know, talk to them. Uh we've got more tools than ever to learn from our audience right now, whether it's asking them questions on social, which is something that we did with one of our clients at Lush. Uh, they went out to their community and said, Hey, we want to start a podcast. What would you guys like to hear? What would you guys like it to be about? Um, or it could be a survey, or it could just be your, you know, your sales reps who are, you know, have these one-to-one relationships uh with you know uh your customers. Ask them what they'd, you know, ask them to ask their customers what they would like to hear from the podcast. And then, you know, craft that show around what that, you know, what that interest is. Um, now it could be more about the brand, it could be more about the products, um, but a lot of times it's not. It's actually more about what's going to level up my career, what's going to level up my education. It just happens to be brought to you by this brand. So we all we treat every podcast like uh like a gift that you're giving your audience for free. Now, um, when you give somebody a gift in real life, you don't immediately go, it was from me, by the way. It was me, it was me, it was me, it was me. Instead, you know, you're very, you know, you're just very nonchalant. You know, I gave you a gift, you don't, you know, and but of course they're gonna know it's from you, and of course they're gonna be grateful that you gave it to them, especially if they love it. And it's like the perfect gift that you, you know, you were so thoughtful about. Um, so we o, you know, we very lightly brand our shows. We don't throw a bunch of ads in the middle of it. We very much not only create the content around the audience, but we also make sure that we have a real sort of audience first experience as as well. Um, it just is a great pot, you know, we we think of it as a great pro sorry, we think of it as a great podcast first that just happens to be brought to you by a brand.

B2B Podcasting That Educates Executives

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I love that. And so I'm curious, thinking as you're you're kind of giving some examples for founders who are more B2B over B2C, does it make sense to do a podcast as a B2B founder? Um, and and is it like I feel like it could be more challenging. What are some tips or tricks you could give, you know, a B2B founder today about doing a podcast or not?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, well, it actually, I would you know, I would say that we we produce more B2B podcasts than B2C, actually, uh, whether it's stuff for IBM or Deloitte or or Wharton. Um the first thing I'll say is that the data shows that um business executives, senior business executives in in particular, um skew heavily on listening to podcasts and and and actually engage in podcasts as a as a whole, but they do skew more towards listening versus versus watching. I think I think that makes sense because they're they're commuting so much, they're traveling, you know, they're on they're at the gym, they're they're trying to fit this um you know, this you know, learning into their everyday lives. They don't necessarily have a ton of time to sit on the couch and watch a screen. They have to kind of learn as they as they go. Um, but they also the data shows that they're also wanting to level up their careers or level up their business. So they're using podcasts as a learning tool, as a way to um, you know, download something new that they've never learned before or dig deeper on a certain topic or expand their knowledge in a you know in a certain area. So as a brand, if you're a B2B brand, you know, this is your opportunity to you know uh build trust with that audience, um, whether it's talking about a certain topic, uh uh or you know, one of our clients uh is it's called D Wave and and they're a um they're uh a quantum computing company which is uh is an unbelievably complex topic. However, uh they want to take an opportunity to, I don't want to say dumb it down, but they want to put the concepts behind quantum cute computing in in in a lot more sort of real-world scenario so that their audience can kind of connect some dots and make, you know, have a good understanding of what exactly quantum computing is, because it is the next thing you know coming after the the big AI boom right now. At least that's what they believe. And so it's a great opportunity to sort of demystify certain topics, um, show that you are thought leaders around certain topics, but also it's a great opportunity to showcase your leaders within your organization. So oftentimes we'll craft shows for for B2B brands uh that are being hosted by certain topic leaders or certain category leaders. You know there's a there's a number of different ways that um that you can you know leverage leverage your you know your brand for a B2B show.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I appreciate that because I you know I mean I think it's sometimes challenging when you're talking about like knowing your audience interacting with your audience if you're a B2B sometimes your clients are not really engaging that much with you other than like keep renewing right so obviously that's a sales department and uh customer relations department um you know improvement but sometimes it can be a bit hard to make sure you're dialed in to give your audience what they're really looking

Podcast As The Spine Of Content

SPEAKER_01 23:34

for.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

But the other thing I'll the other thing I'll add is from a B2B perspective and this is also for B2C but especially great for B2B is that uh we we always talk to our clients about treating their podcast as the spine of their content marketing system. So every as you know as a podcaster whatever every podcast episode is going to shed a ton more content which can be used uh whether that's turning your podcast into transcripts that can then be flipped into amazing blog articles or white papers. You can of course chunk your podcast down into social clips. You can also use the podcast as a sales tool. So if you're talking about certain topics that are being, you know, and that's actually again a good example of creating something that's audience first is understand your customers and some of the challenges that they're having. Take some of the questions that they might have or some of the problems that they're having or misunderstandings that they have and turn those into podcast episodes and then you know edit those and give it to the sales team. And what a great way for the sales team to then have a touch point with their customer or their prospect. It's like hey you asked that question about this well we got a podcast episode on that like keep a library of these things. Again there's just a ton of different uh ways to leverage a podcast into more than just you know your your traditional um you know full interview. I love it full full up full episode.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah yeah it's so creative.

AI, Video, And The Next Shift

SPEAKER_01 25:01

So curious what's coming next how do video AI and distribution shifts change the podcast game over the next two to three years?

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah there's definitely no question that AI is going to play a big role. We are already you know already using AI a ton in our production process whether that's through you know the research that we're doing whether that's through making the our our um you know actual production uh quicker and easier to do so we use it a lot in the uh in the editing process um a AI obviously plays a role in the promotion and marketing of the show as as well um we're not worried though of it taking over the company entirely or you know putting people out of work because at the end of the day um true authentic storytelling still involves real people and I always use the example of you know do you want to hear a story about uh a guy with no legs who climbed Mount Everest or do you want to hear the actual story from the actual guy who has no legs and climbed Mount Everest like that's the part that you're never going to be able to you know replicate with AI. And if you do you're you're lying um and so there's that authentic storytelling that's that it will always be there and that's the piece that we're really leaning into. And again that's something that also um you know adds to the trust that you're building with with your audience.

One Action To Take This Week

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And so as we wrap up today's uh episode for a founder who's listening um and takes one action this week to turn content into a business asset what should that be?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Instead of creating something first and then asking yourself, you know, who's this for and how do I get it to them, flip that around and think about your audience first and then craft your content around their needs and their desires.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

That is such great uh feedback and I appreciate the insight Roger it was great having you on the call today and uh for those listening I hope you got some great tidbits about what to do with your podcast how to really make it an asset for your business externally but also internally and uh we look forward to seeing you on our next episode and and for you to listen to the next great thing. So see you next week. Thanks so much Roger. Thank you.

Share, Subscribe, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 27:11

That's a wrap for today's episode of Scaling with People. If you got value from this conversation do me a favor, share it with someone building something big. And hey I'd love to hear your take drop a comment share me a message or start a conversation. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss the bold unfiltered strategies we drop every week. I'm Gwen Rickary, founder and CEO of Guide2HR, where we help high growth companies scale smart with people for strategies and AI powered systems that don't just keep up, they lead. If you're building fast and want your HR to move faster head to guide2hr.com and let's talk. And remember scale isn't just about speed it's about people. Until next time, have a great one