🩺 The Metabolic Health Doctor: An Interview with Dr. Tony Hampton

In this interview, Dr. Tony Hampton, a family and obesity doctor based in Chicago, discusses why he decided to call himself the metabolic health doctor. He explains that his goal is to help people connect the dots in their health journey and understand the importance of metabolic health in achieving optimal well-being. Dr. Hampton believes that metabolic health lies at the root of many chronic medical conditions, and by focusing on improving metabolic health, he can solve 80% of the problems his patients face.

🫀Understanding Metabolic Health

To better understand why Dr. Hampton emphasizes metabolic health, we need to first define what it means. Metabolic health encompasses various factors, including blood pressure, blood sugar, triglycerides, HDL cholesterol, waist circumference, and overall body composition. These markers provide crucial insights into an individual's overall health and risk for chronic diseases. For example, high blood pressure, elevated blood sugar levels, and unhealthy cholesterol levels are all indicators of poor metabolic health.  Link to all Dr Hampton's content: https://linktr.ee/drtonyhampton

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Transcript

Tony Hampton Transcription

 U1 

 0:00 

Hi there everyone, and welcome to another interview. Today I've got the fabulous doctor, Tony Hampton with me, and I'm going to start with this question. If I told you, why did you decide to call yourself the metabolic health doctor?

 U2 

 0:11 

Well, thanks again for having me, Steven. And, um, you know, you know, it's it's really, um, I would even go back to who I am. I mean, I'm, you know, I live in Chicago, and I have a couple of kids. Um, they're in their 20s now. I've been married for about 30 years, and I'm a family and obesity doctor, I. I spent a little time talking about nutrition and functional medicine. Uh, and but I'm in a traditional, uh, health system is called advocate health. And, and in that traditional model, it's all about managing disease. Right. So but I felt, you know, after getting this training, I need to help people, uh, connect the dots and help them understand that if you, uh, want to lose weight, for example, we often talk about low carb, keto and carnivore, as you know, maybe the better options for most people, but but I think it's important that we talk about, uh, stress and sleep and, and recovering from trauma and protecting our emotions. All of those types of things are just as important. So. So when I'm talking to patients, I realized that in order for me to get the most return on investment, we need to talk about metabolic health. Most of us know what that is your blood pressure, blood sugar, your triglycerides, HDL, and of course your belly size. Right. So if we and why is that the best return on investment? Because 80% of all chronic medical conditions are rooted in poor metabolic health. So as a doctor, a family doctor who's trying to get the most return on investment, if I focus on that, I'll solve 80% of the problems that my patients may face. So. So once I understood that none of this I learned in medical school, by the way, I realized that if I just focus on helping people become metabolically healthy through lifestyle changes, then I'll be a much better family doctor, and I'll and I'll be able to help people in a way that I couldn't help them. Previously, again, I went from a, uh, a disease management doctor to a doctor who heals and helps people reverse disease. So becoming a metabolic Updike was a logical conclusion. And I'm so happy that, um, I figured that out, uh, before my career was over. So now I spend the rest of my career trying to help people heal. So. So that's why that's that's why I call myself that. And I think there's a lot of metabolic doctors out there. And I just wanted to, you know, socialize that term. Because if we don't teach people what that means, then they won't know that they need to solve that problem. 1s Ah, yeah. I mean, that's pretty clear. And I like the fact that you use some of the more traditional measurements, like belly size and blood pressure, but also included sleep and stress, which strangely enough, I mean, I mentioned this nearly every week in my live stream Q&A because people come on and expect me to say, just eat state, drink water, right? Yeah. And they're surprised when I say, how's your sleep? And, um, you know, the disease management is is a big thing. And Sean Baker talks about it. I mean, pretty much anyone in the covert carnivore space. That's right. Pointing out it's not about disease management. It's about getting your life back. So you're a doctor, but you're 

 U1 

 3:30 

 a carnivore, and that's not the norm, so to speak. So this advocate health system you're talking about, do you get a lot of pushback. 

 U2 

 3:39 

 I'm, you know, I'm fortunate in that, um, I'm an outlier, but I'm in a health system that allows us to have our individual practice, so. So we kind of do our own thing in that setting. So I think though, that, you know. Most doctors who are in my health system probably don't have a platform like a podcast and a YouTube channel, so they're not like publicly sharing this information. I do get a lot of patients because they saw me on Chad Baker's, uh, show, or they saw that you can vary or a doctor if you don't see me there. And I was like, oh my God, this guy's in Chicago. And he thinks like I do. But ultimately, the doctors in my health system and most health systems that are conventional, they follow the dietary guidelines because that's what the expectations are. And although they have more wiggle room, uh, compared to a nutrition professional who absolutely has to follow that, we do, they're really just guidance for doctors, but we have no other guidance beyond that. So we tend to follow that. So but I think what's happened to me and for some of my colleagues who are doing carnivore, but maybe not Sharon, is that they personally benefited from it. I personally benefited by resolving a irritable bowel issue. I personally benefited because I was able to have, you know, restore my mental clarity. I was able to, uh, focus better. I was able to not be hungry. And, you know, and all those things that come from not eating the, the what we consider the perfect human diet. So, so I think that. If you're a clinician listening and you have done this experiment and have been successful rather low carb, keto or carnivore, I think it's your obligation to share that message with others while recognizing that this is not totally, uh, outlier work anymore. We have plenty of evidence that suggests that it's safe and very effective. And in the American Heart Association endorses low carb and keto diet, the the Ada, the American Diabetes Association does it now. And of course, the, um, the endocrine societies also. So we don't have to worry about being outliers because we have their endorsement. They may not have carnivore listed on the list, but this is a low carb diet as well. So if you're seeing that the low carb keto is doing really well, then you can assume, and we do have some evidence to suggest carnivore is doing well as well. So I just think it's, um, we need to give our patients options. And if we don't do that, then we will continue to manage their disease and they won't heal. So I just I have transformed how I look at medicine and health care. And I just want that for everybody, not just the patients, but the clinicians who are in the business of healing. You can't heal with a pill that I actually should make a t shirt. You can't heal with a pill because that's only going to cover up and become bridge therapy. But if we can then do better with this lifestyle approach, then people walk away from your office visit having done much better. So that's why I'm really excited, hopefully to see more colleagues, um, come out and say, hey, this is what I do, you should think about this as an option. Yeah. 

 U1 

 7:06 

 That's brilliant. And you slipped in there that you had a personal issue like IBS. So when was the light bulb moment for you personally when obviously you haven't been kind of all your life, you know, what happened? 

 U2 

 7:19 

 Well, I, I did my, uh, experiment, and I think people should experiment. So I did my vegetarian experiment for about eight years. And so once I left the standard American diet approach, and then I transition to a low carb approach after doing research and recognizing that those observational studies that drew me towards the plant based, those, uh, you know, uh, blue zones ideologies and the China studies, there were all observational. And I didn't know at the time that observational studies only show association correlation. But once I started looking at randomized control trials, I said, man, it looks like this low carb keto thing is more evidence based, based on randomized controlled trials. So so I did an experiment, and when I did the experiment, it let me down the low carb rabbit hole. It was also very helpful for my wife, who's a type one, uh, person with type one diabetes. So her sugars got better, my belly got better. But as I transitioned from, uh, low carb to keto, I felt better. As I transitioned from keto to keto bar, I felt better. And then these crazy doctors out there, like Doctor Kim Berry and others are saying, I'm going to do this whole carnivore experiment. It really wasn't until they did the experiment that I got the confidence to try myself because I respected them. And then I said to myself, oh, this is working for me. Oh, by the way, there's not a lot of people that look like me in a low carb space, right? So I say, how about I be in that space as well, so that for those who, you know, want to do this, but maybe they're not sure, they may see my face and say, you know what, if he's doing it, maybe I'll try it. Because in the communities of color in Chicago, in particular on the South Side, uh, everybody's walking through the door excited because they're doing their plant based diet. Doc, I'm finally gonna improve my health with this because that's all they hear. They hear the doctors say BS. And, uh, even though he's now passed on, uh, YouTube sharing messages of herbs and and plants, and they think that's the only way to heal. And I think that'll work for a group of people. We know that there are people, Loma Linda, California, who are eating plants and they're thriving. They have to supplement. But let me tell you, uh, the Mormons who also, uh, our religion is living and thriving. They're eating a lot of meat. So, so to to say that's the only issue is, uh, this a mistake? So I'm just trying to be a voice out here. Uh, and once I started this man, the irritable bowel just went away. I literally, uh, rarely, I notice I have a stomach, but if I. This is the funny thing I recently, um. Had some peanuts. You know, my wife said you should eat some peanuts. Not a big deal. I said, you're right. It's not a big deal. Maybe. And then I tried the peanuts, and they were delicious. But, uh, that night night, I was gassy, you know what I mean? It's like, so it's like, why? Why live? I mean, it's like, I love the peanuts going down, but do I really want to have to struggle with the consequences? And if I eat the ribeye, that never happened. So I'm just I'm in my, uh. I want to feel good lane. I'm 55 and I want to continue to feel like I'm 35. And I think if you treat your body well, you will feel ten years, 20 years younger just because you put the right fuel in your body. So, ma'am, my irritable bowel is just history. It's in the history section of my chart now. Brilliant. 

 U1 

 10:50 

 I mean, I'm 60 this year, and I, I really related to the peanut thing because I actually say to people I love peanuts, but they do not 

 U2 

 10:57 

 love me. They 1s do not leave some peanuts on my counter. That's the rule in my house, by the way, we never leave peanuts on a counter. My wife still eats them because it's going to. It's going to trigger you. You're gonna want them. So I don't even want. But if it's in the pantry somewhere, I don't even think about it. 

 U1 

 11:14 

 Yeah. Um, I liked also that you. You snuck in that your wife is a type one diabetic. And if we could just take a little diversion on that because. Oh, yeah. That's a really common question for me. You don't know me very well, but I'm actually a specialist practitioner in diabetes and obesity. And many people come to me and say, well, how can it help type one? And I say, there's many reasons, but how would you sum up it helping your wife type one diabetes. 

 U2 

 11:40 

 Yeah. You, um, you can't, uh, normalize your agency. And your blood sugar. If you don't do a diet that doesn't lead to infant spikes, it's impossible. So and when I tell people who are type one who may become disappointed because they, they, they, they did their C peptide or whatever, and they found out, oh my God, not only my CPAp tide's off, my antibody tests are off and it's suggesting I'm type one. Now, once you have that moment of realization, you know, the question is, am I going to be able to, uh, now live a healthy life, uh, a long life? And the answer is you won't. If you're A1C stays in the eight range. You won't if it stays even in the seven range. We need to normalize it. So what I tell them is that you're not. You may be an outlier if you're like the, the, uh, type one grit group on Facebook, that Bernstein group that, uh, has managed to in one study with 316 people, uh, achieve a, A1C of 5.6, an average A1 C of 5.6, which is considered in a normal range. Um, and you'll find yourself, if you do that, not losing all those years of life that you will lose if your A1 c is higher. So but they they did it. And I think the average A1 c in that study. And you can easily find that type one diabetes study. Maybe put Eric Westman or Dykeman in your search. And what'll happen is. You'll find that they kept their, um, their calves less than 36 on average. Right. And we I tell my patients to get it under 20 or 30 total carbs. But if you do that, what happens is that there's you reduce that glycemic variability. And all that means is that you the highs and lows go away and it gets it's a narrow range. So instead of having a 2030 carb meal you have a 2 to 4 carb meal. We just made a lasagna. Uh, Maria Emerick, uh, who we both know, uh, had a nice, uh, keto and a carnivore lasagna. My wife ate this lasagna as a type one. Her blood sugars on her meter was about 100 before she ate. It actually went down to 96. Well, after she ate it and it went back up to 100. It never did that. So when you're matching your insulin and in some cases you have to eat a, uh, or take an insulin that's, uh, regular, uh, like a human in versus a human log because with the human in, you're gonna, uh, match it better because that's more of a delayed regular. And so you're trying to match that protein spike with that. So a wrap, it may actually make your blood sugar too low, but you're only looking at, okay, it's a four carb meal. I need less insulin. And therefore the chances of becoming hyper or hypoglycemic is much less. So. Now I can take my wife off this roller coaster of trying to match her, uh, insulin with this 40 carb meal. Instead, we have a four carb bill, so we're not having hypoglycemia when I have an hypoglycemia. And guess what? She's a nicer wife. Because she's not irritable, she's able to focus. We're able to enjoy. We watched, uh, uh, Wonder Woman. Uh, I convinced her to watch that. And I was a little nervous that she wouldn't like it. She did like it. Uh, so we saw that old movie Wonder Woman, uh, on Netflix, and. And there's. We're not sitting here worried about her blood sugar. So you you regain your life and truth be told, if a type one continues to have, um, hypoglycemic episodes over time, it destroys my brain cells. Over time, it increases your risk for dementia. And so we don't want that for anybody in our family. I certainly don't want that for my wife. So. So, yeah. So if you're a type one checking this out today, it is impossible, in my opinion, to achieve normalcy. The good news is Doctor Eric Westman has the adapted life course for type one. I encourage you to get on a waitlist for that because it's very popular. I encourage you to get Doctor Bernstein's book, The Diabetes Solution, and I encourage you to join the Type one Grid Facebook group so that you can be in a in the company of people who have been able to, uh, get their blood sugars in the normal range. And you you have to manage your life more closely, but you can have a full, normal life if you do that. 

 U1 

 16:08 

 Doctor Bernstein's book. I constantly talk about the rule of small numbers. I mean, just what you just said. It's not a roller coaster. No small bumps. And it's it's so obvious as well. I mean, when I did my training, um, which was 15 years ago, like a light bulb moment when they kept talking about, uh, more insulin for more carbs, and I just put my hand up because I hadn't come from the medical background. 

 U2 

 16:31 

 I came from my background. 

 U1 

 16:32 

 Well, why don't we just reduce carbs and then we can 

 U2 

 16:34 

 change your lives? All right, 

 U1 

 16:36 

 all right, now, you mentioned, uh, colleagues there. Um, what about your colleagues? If they're skeptical about carnivore, what sort of things would you say to them? Hey. Hey, guys, you need to maybe consider a carnivore. What would you say? 

 U2 

 16:49 

 Yeah. I always tell my patients I'm going to meet them where they are. Also, tell my colleagues the same thing. I'm going to meet you where you are. But I also have to feel those knowledge gaps because many of my colleagues are not reading nutrition studies like me and you, uh, many of my colleagues didn't get extra training. I have a master's in nutrition. Uh, I have a board certification in obesity medicine, so they just didn't get that training. And so I honor that and respect that, because most people out here doing this work, they really want to do what's right. Right. So when it comes to carnivore, uh, I tell them what I love about it is so easy, man. Me and my air fryer and that ribeye man we have we have fun together. It's like the perfect match made in heaven marriage. So the first thing is. When people struggle with diet, you don't want to make it complex. So it's easier. But more importantly, and I think Doctor Troll, uh, talks about this, who's in the low carb community? You have to address hunger. And I'm so happy in a way that the diet doctor has focused a little bit on satiety. So they have they have a I have a co, um, website which helps people with their appetite and choosing high satiety foods where if you're a carnivore, all you're eating is high satiety foods that will make you, uh, full. So that's really the next thing I would say to them. I would also say to them that, um, people who eat any type of low carb diet and carnivores, one of them, um, they lose weight faster, uh, they get rid of water weight faster. But more importantly, um, they don't have to worry about those instant spikes. And, as you know, uh, too much insulin, uh, arguably is one of the biggest reasons why we have chronic health conditions. Hyperinsulinemia it destroys your blood vessels, it destroys your nervous system. And then I tell them, if you struggle with there's certain medical conditions we struggle with. One is mental health, another are autoimmune diseases. And you have to take all of these medicines that have, you know, horrific side effects, neurological diseases. I would even put Huntington's and Parkinson's and things like that in that category and of course metabolic diseases. So if you have someone in front of you who has a mental health condition, um, and that's why I appreciate, uh, Chris Palmer, uh, and, uh, and uh, Georgia, who both wrote books after Georgia Eats Books, is, uh, more recent that deal with mental health. And they both would argue, and I would too, that you cannot, uh, fix. Or put into remission mental health conditions without, um, dietary changes. So. So for those doctors out there who have never heard this, please, maybe consider those books. Check out some podcasts. I've interviewed Doctor Georgie. I'm going to get Chris Palmer on at some point and understand that when you eat this way you can heal the brain. Now, the other thing that I tell my colleagues is, um, plants have chemicals in them to protect themselves. And therefore in some people and in most people, in my opinion, it can be toxic. I can't tolerate plants, which is why I'm a carnivore. Well, while meat is the most nutrient dense nutrient you can, uh, you know, eat, particularly starting with the, the organ meat. And then you can look at the, the ribeye, which is the total opposite of what I've been taught in my life. I was taught that the most nutrient dense food is kale and spinach, but mostly. And so what I do in my clinic, as I say, and I always say this to my doctor colleague, just search, um, how much of the iron and spinach is bioavailable and you'll when you do that search, it'll be in A23 percent range. So you're only absorbing, um, 2% of the iron that you need, but you get maybe 30, 40% of that iron if you eat a steak. So. So I think that the bioavailability of nutrients you don't have the, the negative toxic effect of plants. And thankfully, because we're talking to doctors and other clinicians, we do have at least one study. And one thing about studies I mentioned earlier that observational studies, uh, are not necessarily what you should rely on. They only show. Possible association. Possible correlation. However, when you're starting your journey, you have to rely on those until we do randomized controlled trials. And thankfully, there was a study for carnivore behavioral characteristics, um, and self-reported um, um, health status. I think it was called done by Harvard, which was wonderfully, uh, illustrating that many people who are taking this dietary approach are doing well. And I think, uh, the number of people who were felt better, uh, overall was 95%. So 95% of the people on a carnivore diet in this study felt better. And all those measures of, uh, metabolic health that we worry about triglycerides and HDL, which is part of that metabolic, uh, pattern, uh, weight loss, all those things got better. So, so if I'm in front of a patient as a clinician and that patient is struggling and they have not been told that this is a dietary option, they've not taken this little experiment, uh, that, that I would encourage them to do. I would at least try it for two, three, four months, do maybe a carnivore challenge and watch and then measure their laugh before measure their labs. After recognizing that the LDL is a poor predictor of heart disease. And that's been debunked already. So we're not to worry about the LDL and the total cholesterol. But but all the other metabolic markers, including that for most people, will get better. And if those metabolic markers are better, then you must ask yourself, why would I then not endorse a diet that helped you achieve that goal? So that's kind of what I would say. Uh, we do need more randomized controlled trials for carnivore because what what happens with observational studies. And this is just being honest. Uh, there was one study that looked at, uh, observational studies then and then later there was randomized controlled trials. And only 20% of the observational studies were actually correct. And their conclusions. So when we do observational studies, it's a high probability that you can toss a corn coin and do better. So let's get some randomized controlled trials in front of people. But until we get to that point, we have a ton of evidence that the low carb and keto dietary pattern are superior to the low fat. Is that even a question mark? The, uh, the Public Health Collaborative has put all those studies together. So I would suggest anybody that's not sure about that, uh, to check that out, but recognize that carnivore is a low carb diet. 

 U1 

 23:43 

 Amazing. That's such good information. And of course, you snuck in again some some stuff there. The PHC, the public health collaboration is here in the UK. So it's nice. 

 U2 

 23:54 

 Yeah that's right, that's right. Yeah. 

 U1 

 23:55 

 Thanks for that. Um, and also about the LDL being debunked, uh, it seems to me that maybe throw away the statins and start eating cookies seems 

 U2 

 24:04 

 to be the lions. All right. Thank God. Nicholas Norris. Yeah, I 

 U1 

 24:09 

 actually emailed him because I want to get him on the 

 U2 

 24:11 

 show. Yeah, definitely got it. Well, he's the whole point of what he's doing with his, uh, Oreo cookie. Uh, study, uh, is to open up the dialogue where we are not trying to indoctrinate anybody. We're just trying to say, if this is true, that the Oreo, uh, diet actually improved my these markers that you're concerned about, then that should make you pause. So, as scientists, can we have intellectual, uh, conversations also. And it's so nice to see him, uh, Nick Norris at Harvard with Hewitt, um, the scientists that's, you know, with the Lancet and Harvard and and just to be able to have a conversation, you know, I am not trying to win this dialogue. My goal is to let's have conversations. And and then as we learn more, we then move our population towards the diet. That seems to make the most sense. But we may recognize one day that there are multiple ways to get to metabolic health. And if that's true, then let's live in that world where we allow carnivores and vegans to live in harmony. I'm I'm okay with that. I just don't want people to demonize me for the dietary pattern it has that has helped me heal. Yeah. 

 U1 

 25:25 

 And I think that's it's all about the correct information rather than indoctrination and propaganda, I think. 

 U2 

 25:31 

 Um. 

 U1 

 25:33 

 You've obviously been trained traditionally as a doctor, and then you've come to your own conclusions. Is there anything you'd change about how doctors are trained? 

 U2 

 25:43 

 I would, um, I, I just think that what I love about the new generation, even as I think about my, you know, early 20s, year old, you know, sons, is that they they have a very positive outlook on the future. And they, they tend to see the world through a more optimistic lens. I think we've lived long enough to, you know, you're a mid-fifties. You're at the 60 range lesson. But we really need that optimism. And wouldn't it be more optimistic to walk into a the office of a young doctor? And they're saying, by the way, you know, we can help you, uh, put that into remission if you like that language or reverse it if you like that language. I think that's a more optimistic approach. So, so the first thing I would do is make sure that the education around nutrition is an incorporated into how they're trained. But let's be clear. When I got my master's in nutrition, they were kind of trying to indoctrinate that plant based methodology. Right. And what I loved about the functional medicine part of that education, uh, shout out to the, uh, you know, University. I went to University of Western State, um, because the functional medicine part taught me how to look at the root cause. Um, but that indoctrination that they had was based on the old thinking, which is. LDL cholesterol is important. Total cholesterol is important. So if you they would literally say things like you can do keto for a while, but you have to then go back to the diet that made you sick. So but now that we don't have to worry about the cholesterol and LDL being factors, then we don't have to do that. That in that that crazy recommendation to go back to the diet that was necessarily causing you to be sick. So. So the key is when we educate people, we have to, at the minimum, uh, share with them that there are a multiple ways to do this. One is this keto thing, maybe another is carnivore, maybe another is Mediterranean, maybe another is, uh, if you do plant based, you got to know about the supplements. But there's a way to do it. So I just think how we educate is important, but it has to be, uh, based on nutrition. Um, and then I would also ask them to teach the new doctors how to interpret research. If a doctor only follows the headlines, they will then misguide their patients. So let's make sure they know how to look at a study. Who did the study? Was the bias in the study? Is it a showing association correlation versus showing causation. So observational versus uh randomized controlled trials in other words so that they can look at. So if a patient comes to them with some study newsflash meats bad for you, they'll be able to look at that study and say, you know what? This study is, uh, that's been debunked already. In fact, I'm not sure why they even bother doing this study and they'll be able to interpret. So I think our doctors, so that they can be scientists can understand that. And the other thing I would mention is, um, one thing I learned in my functional medicine training is don't diagnose the organ. Figure out what the systemic cause of the illness is. So you don't want to just say, oh, the liver is bad and that's it. You want to think about, well, why is the liver bad? And are there other parts of the system that led to that liver being in bad shape? So I just think being able to diagnose the system, understanding the root cause of disease, that functional medicine model should be incorporated into how we train our doctors. And they should always start with lifestyle. Lifestyle shouldn't be a casual conversation. It should be the conversation. And then if that's if there's a need to bridge them, they have a blood pressure that's 200 over 100. We use medicines as bridge therapy. If their blood sugar is 400 or they're in the ICU because they had diabetic ketoacidosis. We use insulin as bridge therapy and then we wean them off of medicine as the default. Doctors need to learn how to deep prescribe, not prescribe. Doctors need to transition from being drug dealers to healers. And if we have that approach, what will happen is not only will the patients do better and be happy and never leave you because you heal them, you help them heal. But the the clinicians, the doctor is the advanced practice clinicians and others. They will then feel like, oh, I'm living my life purpose because I actually took somebody who was on instant for ten years off of illness and within a couple of months, and they have finally healed. So it restores hope. And it also gives people a path to a life without chronic medical conditions. 

 U1 

 30:33 

 It would be fantastic if those suggestions were taken on board. So you mentioned about vegans there and their different ways of eating. So what if a vegan comes to your office and asks for dietary advice, what do you tell them? 

 U2 

 30:48 

 I just tell them that, um, first of all, I just try to understand. I try to meet people where they are. So the first thing I let them know is that I'm going to walk with them regardless. I'm going to walk with you regardless. So I do have vegans in my practice, but but I try to understand why they became vegan and and for a there's many reasons. Sometimes is my religion, sometimes it's, uh, my ethics because I think it's not ethical to eat animals. Uh, sometimes it's my culture. So. So if they say that that's a non I'm going to do that regardless. Then I work with them. Now having said that, I. But if they are but if they give me another reason like, oh I don't want to have high cholesterol. You know, if they tell me something that's been debunked, then I'll say to them, did you know that that's been debunked? So I'll give them that information. Oh, by the way, uh, the blue zones, which they say is more of a plant based methodology. Did you know that only 15, 20% of the Loma Linda, uh, folk, uh, in California are actually vegan? 1s Um, did you know that? Did you know that the the, uh, the, uh, the other some of the other religions, like the Mormons, actually eat a ton of meaning live just as long. They may not know that. Did you know that everybody in the blue zones, including Loma Linda. Most people eat meat. They eat pork and things like that. Did you know that? Did you know that people in Hong Kong, uh, have the longest longevity most years, and they eat the equivalent of two 12 ounce things per day per person. Did you know that? So what I do is I fill those knowledge gaps. But more importantly, um, I tell them, yeah, you can actually eat this way, but you're going to have to worry about your B12 vitamin level. You're gonna have to worry about your vitamin D or omega three, your zinc, your calcium, your iodide. So and I'll say to them, yes, you can get your B12 from, uh, plant sources. You can do that from mushrooms and spirulina and things like that. But it's not going to be as available as from an animal source. You can get your vitamin D from a plant for sure, but you can get it from mushrooms and algae. But the better source of vitamin D is from your eggs and your your cheese and your beef liver. You can get your vitamin K2, uh, from fermented vegetables, but you primarily get it from animals. You can get your vitamin A, uh, from, um, plant sources, however. It has to be converted to the active form. It's going from, um. Um, um, a plant form, beta carotene to the vitamin A form, and only ten, 15% of that's going to be converted. And if that's true, then the animal source is better because there's no need for conversion. The omega three. Yeah. You can get that from, uh, seaweed and things like that. But the better source of omega three is from, uh, the seafood. And even if you get it from a plant source, it has to be converted from the a la form to the EPA DHA form, which is the more active form you can get iron from the spinach, as I mentioned earlier, but only 2% absorbed. You want the heme iron, not the non heme iron coming from animal sources. So so what I do is I just lay out this is what we need to we're going to check some things. We're going to check some levels because they may come through the door anemic. They're like I don't know why I've been anemic. I said, you just because you haven't been eating the steak, but if we're going to do that, then we need to know what to eat to get them back to where they need to be. So again, I work with them. I never look at them and say, you know, bad, you know, because I was there, I was a vegetarian for eight years, and I understand why I did it, because I was misled by the blue zones and the China studies. But now I know better. And if they stay in that place because they're Hindu and they're they're they worship cows. I'm not going to then tell me the cow. That's ridiculous. I have to we have to live in a world where we honor each other. We listen to each other, we don't yell and scream at each other. So if you hear me on social media, you'll notice my tone is a little bit more. It's not as aggressive. It's fun to yell and scream sometimes, but it's better that we honor people and meet them where they are. And I just think that that's who I am as a person. So I'm not going to try to be anything other than that. And I just hope we can we it's fun to have a little bit of a balance. We do want to yell and scream sometimes, but it's better that we honor each other. 

 U1 

 35:25 

 Yeah, I agree, I mean, I always say if someone's a vegan, at least they're thinking about food, they're thinking about their health. Then it puts them ahead of about 80% of the population, not even researching or thinking about it. And, um, I like what you said there. Walking with them is a really nice phrase. So let's ask you a very basic question then. Do you take any supplements as a carnival? 

 U2 

 35:47 

 You know, um, not really. Uh, but but I take a few. And the reason why I don't take a lot of supplements is because you don't really have to. Right? So. So what I do is I take, um, I take vitamin D, uh, um, because I think we all should take it, but, uh, with darker skin is even more important. So vitamin D3, uh, with K2 and I do the K2 because I want to be able to, uh, take the calcium that I'm absorbing better from the vitamin D. Out of my joints so I don't get arthritis and out of my arteries, so I don't increase my risk for heart disease, building up calcium in my arteries. So D3, k2, I take that every day, and I don't take calcium because I think I try to get my calcium from my diet. I think minerals can be important. I don't take minerals every day. Um, but I do, um, I do keep the keto chow bran in my, uh, kind of in my, uh, cabinet, and I do. So minerals are available. Magnesium probably be the most important because every once in a while you would get a cramp. Carbohydrates can attract water, salt, magnesium, potassium in your body. But when you're low carb, keto, carnivore, you may get rid of minerals. So I try to put that back. Uh, I don't get full off of seafood as much as I do off of ribeye, so I tend to not eat a lot of seafood. So. So I do take an omega three a high potency omega three. And then and then that's kind of what I do. Um, but some of my patients, it depends on what they're doing. If they're transitioning, they have diabetes and maybe they're on a statin. I'm not a huge fan of statins, but if they're on something like that, I may say CoQ10. If they're on metformin, I may tell them to take a B12 because you can become deficient with metformin. So what I do is I look at the individual and I do discourage them, though. I tell them, I don't know about those green powders. Do you really need to do that? An answer is that you save it by the rib eye instead. That's a for most people, that's a waste of money. Uh, multivitamins, for the most part, that's a waste of money. In fact, you may be better if you're taking a supplement to just take a liver, uh, you know, supplement if you're going to go there. I think there's probably more nutrients in the liver than it is in a multivitamin. So that's kind of my angle. More supplements require for the vegan minimum or no supplements required for the carnivore. If you eat a balanced diet, you throw in a little liver every once in a while. There's some type of organ meat. There's really no need for supplementation, but it's totally okay. I think mineral those are the in the, uh, electrolytes are the only thing that you really want to be mindful for if you're eating an animal based diet. Mhm. 

 U1 

 38:31 

 Yeah I'm very minimalistic with, with. Yeah. It's nice enough. Um one of the things that you're known for is dealing with health inequities. Now people might not have even heard that phrase before. So can you talk about that for me, please? 

 U2 

 38:45 

 Yeah. In fact, um, my goal this year, uh, for 2024 is to write a book to talk about my Nest and Rope acronym, which talks about nutrition, exercise, less stress, more sleep, etc. and, um, but when I write that book about, you know, how to achieve metabolic health and lose weight, it's going to really focus on not just the diet and the lifestyle, but how do you deal with social determinants of health and health inequities. So, so but health inequities is just a way of understanding that in some some groups of people don't have access to, uh, health care and, uh, you know, and all of these things we think we all should have access to compared to other groups, that's kind of an unfair system. And, and so and if I were to give an example of that, um, even recently I was listening to Jamal Hill. Hill, who is a sports, uh, female sports commentator, and she talked about she was on The Breakfast Club, I think, and they were talking about something called race normally normally in NFL and, and all that is, is how, uh, players of color, black players of color are, um, you know, in order to get the benefits that the NFL gives patients, you know, football players who had brain injury, uh, they have to kind of do a cognitive test. And, and what they found is that they would put the, the black athletes in a different bucket than the white athletes. And the and what would happen is if the black athletes had a lower score for cognitive function, they would still qualify because, oh, black people have lower cognitive tests. So your normal. For you. But it's not. But compared to white people, you're so it was unfair because it's like, well, my my cognitive 1s function. Is that normal? Now you're black. So that's it. So we live in a world where that was actually okay from the NFL in the United States. Could you imagine that? So even though that's a little slightly different, but that's an experience I wanted to share because that's that's what's wrong with the world. It's like we have to live in a world where things are equitable. We are treated in an equitable way while recognizing that when that that single mom is struggling with two jobs working the night shift, uh, she couldn't even get to the office appointment. So how do we make healthcare accessible for her and not blame her because of her circumstances that led her to be in that situation? So for me, my goal is to, you know, help understand that these types of inequities exist, that yes, doctor Hampton on his way. I remember going to my residency. First day. I live in this nice suburb right next to the hospital. Uh, driving this really nice car, and I got pulled. I must have been followed for the first week, every day. Because, you know, it's early in the morning and the cops are just following me to work. It was. I got pulled over once. I told them I was a new resident doctor. Uh, I walk into the, uh. And I shared this word before I walk into the hospital the first day, and, um, I go to the special entrance. That's for the doctors. I walk in, this large African American security guy grabs me, says, where are you going? 2s Think about that. And I was like, I'm one of the new doctors. Oh, I'm sorry. The question is, if I was not an African American, blah, blah, blah, would he have grabbed me? And I can guarantee you the answer is no. So listen, I'm not suggesting the world is just crazy. I'm just saying that these are the experiences that people have. So if you have a patient in front of you whose entire experience with health care is similar to that, they they come in on edge and they and they look like they're, you know, they're just upset. And so you have to when you know, this is their truth, then you're able to then approach them in a way where they feel welcome, respected and honored in a way that they should have been in the first place. And so so if I'm I mean, I have so many I mean, I have a master's in nutrition, I'm board certified obesity family, I have all of these titles. I'm a regional. I mean, I'm a leader in my health system. But yet when someone sees me with my hoodie on, they look at me and judge me in a way that's totally unfair and that, and we shouldn't even judge the kid with the hoodie, because he may be. I mean, some of these kids are like, you know, my kids, if you saw them walking down the street, you may get to walk the other side of the street. But they went to, you know, they went to a top 20 school. They both have masters one one and the other will have a master's in business, uh, by the summer. And should they be treated differently? So Health and equities is about putting people in a position to be successful and not judging them because they may look different. Talk their friend. I don't care if it's LGBTQ issues or any of that stuff. We have to treat others as we want to be treated, and that's the world I want to live in. And until we remove those barriers, we're going to continue to assume that the people in front of us don't care. They're not hardworking. No. It's just they have a life experience that has made it more challenging. And if we treat them with dignity and respect and and look at them the right way, then we'll then be able to help them. You can help people if you treat them less than you are. So so that's kind of why that's important to me. And I think it's an obligation for me to at least bring that issue to the conversation in the low carb, keto carnivore community. 

 U1 

 44:27 

 Yeah, I think it's very admirable. And oddly, I hadn't experienced yesterday. Um, now, you don't know me very well. Um, but hopefully we'll get to know each other. I'm actually hard of hearing. Or we're hearing aids. I lip read, and yesterday at the gym, and I before we came on, I was saying, you know, I go to the gym at 6:30 in the morning and I'm there in the morning. And yesterday I also play five a 

 U2 

 44:49 

 side, uh, soccer, which 

 U1 

 44:51 

 I've got back to after a ten year break. And I was leaving the gym. Yeah, it's dark, so I can't read, and I'm looking at the pitch to make sure it's not flooded so I can play on Wednesday night. And there's a guy walking his dog to the other side of me, so I've not got my head 

 U2 

 45:07 

 looking. And I 

 U1 

 45:09 

 didn't know that he was shouting good 

 U2 

 45:11 

 morning to me. I didn't know that. Right, because I couldn't hear 

 U1 

 45:15 

 him. Uh, yeah. There was some noise. There's a rider on there. So I'm looking out here and this noise gets louder and louder and I can't do it on the mic because it'll be a bit hard for people listening on the audio. Um, but he ended up shouting, get a 

 U2 

 45:31 

 load in like I was being rude. You see. Now I wanted to go over and say, look, sorry, I, I wasn't ignoring you. I'm deaf, you know, I couldn't hear you. And I've had that throughout my life. And one of the things you said about health and you might maybe have never even considered this. When I started having problems when I was 23, I'd go to a hearing clinic. It would be a massive, massive waiting area. 

 U1 

 45:58 

 And when it was your appointment, they would call out your name. 

 U2 

 46:03 

 And I'm like. 

 U1 

 46:04 

 I can't hear you. I don't know what you were saying, you know? So, um, there are all these tiny little things where there's no thought into, you know, like you said. But that security guard, he's made that assumption 

 U2 

 46:18 

 that you're. 

 U1 

 46:19 

 You couldn't possibly be a doctor because you don't look right. You know. That's right. And and you've got to stop that. You've got to stop these, um, you know, people jump to the wrong conclusion. You've got to let the, uh, the person give out something, you know, and you've got to be open 

 U2 

 46:36 

 yourself. And there's a solution. There's a solution. Like just hearing you say that as a medical director, I'm always thinking, and. And so what happens? What do you do when you live in a world? I have hearing impaired patients who are like, not just hearing impaired, but just are deaf, you know, now what do you do? And and we have things that we mitigated. We have the translation. So we can do sign language with the monitor and things like that. But in that moment. So how so in the chart like I would what I would do is make sure in that chart, when a person is registering, it just pops up, you know, that that's an issue. And then what happens is when it's time to call that patient my medical assistant, the team knows that I need to engage them in a different way. I have to make sure, well, how do I you know, maybe I walk up to that family. You know, we do have images in the chart of what people look like, you know? But the bottom line is there's a way to solve that problem so that you can restore, you know, make sure they have dignity and you an honor that obviously it's a little tougher when you're walking around outside. But but, but but that's why we have to think about this stuff. And when I used to co-chair the diversity, diversity, equity and inclusion committee for our health system, um. I learned a lot about death. You know how to deal with. I learned about lgtbq issues. I learned about how women are treated. I learned about how people in the health system. So when we started coaching to help the supervisors become managers and then directors and vice presidents, what we did is we created a mentoring program. But because we knew we didn't want to be unfair, we created a mentoring program for everybody. And then we had a slightly, slightly different program for those of color. So because you don't want to then be prejudiced towards others, you have to kind of be very thoughtful about how you do these things. But but if we don't think about this and we only judge people because they're different and we don't understand why they're different and how we can level the playing field, and then the world will never be what it should be. So I'm I'm in a crazy way. I'm happy you have these experiences so you can share them, because when we talk about them, then people may pause and instead of saying that person is being rude, you'll pause and say, there's probably a reason why they're not being responsive and give them that grace, as opposed to just assuming that is what you initially thought it was. 

 U1 

 49:03 

 Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, some people are 

 U2 

 49:05 

 rude, right? Right, right. 

 U1 

 49:07 

 You get the content of their character. Yeah, they are quite annoying, right? Um, you have a podcast called The Nest? 

 U2 

 49:16 

 Yes. Podcast. Well, could you explain that for us? Yeah. And I was fortunate to, um, when I did my functional medicine training, I was fortunate that they had this functional medicine tree. Anybody can search that. But the roots of the functional medicine tree, uh, are the root causes of why people struggle and why they get sick. And so I what I did was because I'm a doctor and I have to learn a lot of stuff, how can I turn this into an acronym? So I remember it. And so I came up with a nest and role nutrition exercise, less stress, more sleep, recovering from trauma, protecting our thoughts, the rope to climb up to the nest, making sure we have healthy relationships, avoiding organisms and pollutants that harm us. A pollutant would be something like alcohol. Having a healthy microbiome would be an organism. And then of course, the in a row our life experiences should service me. Having time with you is a good life experience and then, uh, making sure our emotions are protected. So if I have somebody in front of me because I'm a problem solver and I do okay, here's a low carb keto or carnivore handout and they struggle. The first thing I do is I think about that acronym is is there something there that's leading to the struggle? It may be, oh, you're you have a weight loss plateau. And then you find out they're getting four hours of sleep. And maybe that's the issue. Now, we know carnivores don't need as much sleep, but let's just say for argument's sake that's the issue. So what it does is it gives us something else to focus on. So when I write my book for obesity, I'm going to talk about, of course, low carb keto carnivore. But I'm also going to talk about why we struggle. And it's going to involve that. So I'm going to walk through that nest and rope. I'm going to tell patients stories. We're going to solve the sleep problem. We're going to solve the trauma problem. And then we're going to also incorporate that health inequities piece. In that way when people struggle, we'll understand this is why. And the nest and rope gives me permission to talk about other stuff. So for example, my I had a podcast guest recently, um, who uh, Cody Watkins, who's this big bodybuilder, right. And we talked about exercise. And then I've had guests where we talked about relationships. Uh, and I even have future gas, like, hopefully Congressman Danny Davis in the Chicago area. Um, we'll talk about his life experiences that help him get to where he is. And I think all of those types of conversations will help us thrive, will help us think outside the box, but more importantly, help us problem solve whenever we struggle because struggle is going to happen. The question is why? Why do we struggle? And do we have kind of a template on how to approach it? So it's been a a gift. Why? Why do I love the podcast? Because I get a chance to meet guys like you. I get a chance to, uh, spread this message and live my life purpose. And my purpose is to help the world become more metabolically healthy. So it's been a gift, and I hope to do that. That's my retirement plan is to do that for the rest of my life. Getting in front of the camera. Uh, get in front of the camera. You know, I'll be going to the various conferences speaking just to spread this message. 

 U1 

 52:28 

 Doctor, Tony Hampton. That's been amazing. Um, we've got our material has been absolutely brilliant. I'll try and get you back at some point, because I just feel there's so many other things I'd love to talk to you about, but thank you for your time. 

 U2 

 52:41 

 Thank you for the invite. Keep doing this great work and I appreciate all you do, man.