Josie Podcast Transcript
Summary
I interviewed a former vegan about her experience, and she shared why she decided to give up veganism, how she manages her current diet and lifestyle, and her thoughts on the vegan community. We also discussed the environmental impact, health concerns, and social pressure surrounding veganism. This is an interview with Josie, a woman who healed her health issues by transitioning from a vegan to a carnivore diet. She became vegan at 13 and started experiencing health issues after 10 years. She tried many different things to improve her health, but nothing seemed to work. After discovering the carnivore diet through influencers, she decided to try it and saw immediate improvements in her health, including clearer skin and improved mental health. She now eats mostly ruminant meats and fish. Josie, became a vegan at the age of 13 due to ethical reasons. However, after 14 years of being vegan, she started experiencing severe health problems such as ulcerative colitis, diarrhea, and malnutrition. After trying various approaches to manage her condition, she decided to try the carnivore diet, which improved her health greatly. She now gets a lot of criticism and hate from vegans for her choice, but she believes in the benefits of the carnivore.
Transcription
U1
0:00
By
U2
0:01
there. And welcome to another interview. Today I've got the fabulous Josie with me, who you might know as the ex plant eater. So a little bit of a spoiler alert there, what we might be talking about. And I'm going to ask the question I ask absolutely every single guest and that is, hey JC, why did you become Carnival?
U1
0:17
So I've been doing the carnivore diet, I want to say for a little bit over two years now, and I come from a background of being vegan for 14 years. I started veganism when I was about 13, and it was for the ethical aspect of it, but it was also because I had, I believe, watched Earthlings at the time, and I was fully convinced that being vegan was the healthiest way to eat. I was obviously very naive and basically still a child, but I became vegan overnight after that, and I remember getting into a lot of people on YouTube that were vegan who seemed to be thriving, and it kind of enforced that it was a lifestyle that was good for me, but I truly never remembered really feeling good. While vegan. I tried to tell myself that I did, and I tried to tell myself all of the telltale things that vegans will say that their diet does, like giving them clear skin. 1s And you know the fact that it's like healthier, it's more ethical. But I never really saw the evidence of that throughout. Really that whole 14 years, I really never felt very good. And I had horrible mental health for the entirety of it. But while I was vegan, I would say about year ten, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, and the symptoms of that had to do with a virgin diarrhea, which would happen up to, I would say like 20 times a day, no exaggeration. And, you know, these symptoms got progressively worse as time went on. Blood and diarrhea, blood on my stool. I wasn't really able to eat because I would have such severe pain anytime I would eat anything. So I became very deficient. So obviously that's not that can't be 100% blamed on veganism. It was just malnutrition. But again, I couldn't eat very much. I was very lethargic at the time. I was also a university student, so it's truly a miracle that I was able to finish my degree with like good grades still that semester. But I ended up being hospitalised twice. Um, that it must. I believe it was like about 2016 when this happened, or 2017 and I was hospitalized for the first time that May and then a second time in November. And that was my more severe flare that. But I talk about it a lot because it literally almost killed me. Um, the doctor told me, uh, before I was admitted to the hospital, that my potassium was so low again because I couldn't eat very much that I could have died like. And very soon after that, if I didn't go and get admitted into the hospital and I did so obviously they treated me, they gave me a colonoscopy and whatnot. And I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis leaving the hospital. I was in the hospital for about a week, and after that I stayed vegan for four years, and I kept telling myself that I could stay vegan and manage my colitis while staying vegan. And I definitely eliminated some things that helped. But ultimately, I always ended up having another flare. I never, ever had normal digestion, and I don't remember having normal digestion for years, even before I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis while vegan. So it was an ongoing issue that that seemed to be compounding, and ulcerative colitis was just the most extreme expression of that. So. Fast forward to 2021. I was still vegan and I had a death in the family, which stresses definitely. Also one of the things that would send me into Blair. So that was obviously very stressful and sad time. And it was also when Covid was still at not quite out of tight, but it was still a thing. So in my mind, first of all, we had a death in the family. And then second of all, I didn't want to have to go back into the hospital. That was like the worst case scenario, and I could see myself going back into another bed flare, and I couldn't really seem to get a handle on it. So I was really desperate. And I remembered reading an article or something. I think it was like a really brief passage in a book, actually, about like current events. And the author happened to mention that they had been vegan a while back and that it ultimately didn't work because it was, uh, degenerative. And it kind of clicked for me then, and I had heard that before, but it just didn't process because I didn't want it to process. But it clicked for me then because I think it needed to, because I had tried everything else. So I considered, well, maybe if I just try animal products again and it doesn't work, then I know that being vegan is right. And then this is just some genetic disorder, which I ultimately didn't believe. Like, I knew in my core that it wasn't just my like, fate to have ulcerative colitis. Like, I felt like I could manage it, but I just hadn't figured out how to do that yet. So. I decided to try off just having bone broth, which was the most harmless thing I figured I could possibly have. And and right away I noticed changes. Um, I remember my skin started to improve pretty quickly and my digestion started to improve, and I. 1s A lot of flack that I get has to do with the, you know, just that I'm making this up and whatnot. But I would not have continued down the path if I didn't see those improvements, like if I wasn't experiencing the benefits of eating these things like I, you know, there's really no incentive for me to continue doing it. But I started seeing benefits right away. It was really when I would say I gave it about 2 or 3 months before I started actually eating meat again, and when I started having chicken and turkey, I remember my the blood in my stool completely went away at that point, and my digestive issues had improved profound profoundly at that point. So gradually throughout the months, I incorporated more and more animal products. I wasn't really eating too much processed food to begin with, but I increasingly was taking all of it out of my diet. Learning about seed oils. I had found carnivore influencers. At that point, I would say about like 4 to 6 months into when I had stopped being vegan and seeing how they were thriving was really what gave me the confidence to not feel crazy and to want to try the carnivore diet. Um, because I also did find so many people who had healed autoimmune issues, and that was really my biggest incentive in terms of wanting to start the carnivore diet. So I would say I stopped being vegan. And, uh, in 2021 and about May and throughout the next six months, I incorporated everything up to like Faith. And I started taking out a lot of the really inflammatory foods. But I fully commit, and I want to say February of 2022. Um, so again, yeah, it's almost been about two years that I've been eating this way. And my ulcerative colitis had healed profoundly at that point, but I was still having diarrhea on a daily basis, and I was still having constipation. So that was when I fully saw those symptoms go into remission. And mind you, this this whole entire time, I maybe took like some herbs when I was vegan, but I wasn't taking medications. I did not want to get, uh, dependent on them. So. 1s Throughout this time, as I was healing on the carnivore diet, I was, you know, I need to clarify that I was not taking medications either. This was a completely natural progression. So I saw those symptoms go into remission, and I saw my digestion go back to normal, like normal, that I hadn't even remembered it being in the past like ten years of being vegan. Like I went, I went to, uh, it improved like that drastically, that it became normal. And I hadn't remembered it being like that and probably over a decade. So that was what really proved to me that this was the right way for me to eat. And other than that, I've seen so many things improve my mental health. Um, my level of fitness, my skin. I definitely looked at least like five years older when I stopped being vegan on my. I've seen my skin reverse age, uh, so many things. I've even seen my, uh, sense of smell improve and my reflexes. So everything across the board has improved. And it's why I continue to eat this way.
U2
8:46
Fantastic. I mean, just before we started recording, I said, tell your story. You know, just just tell it. And that was that was so linear and wonderful. I really enjoyed that. Um, maybe I misheard, but was there a point where you said that you had diarrhea and sort of constipation at the same sort of time? Was that something possible to be having diarrhea and then constipation?
U1
9:08
Yeah. So it's worth clarifying. When I started the carnivore diet, I would say like, so when I was in a flare, I would have diarrhea up to like 5 to 10 times a day. Normally when I started the carnivore diet, my digestion improved a lot, so I would maybe have diarrhea once a day, but then I would switch to being constipated like a day or two later, and it would take a few days for me to go, uh, back to normal, if that makes sense. So yeah, I, I guess I could say that it was a. 1s Like I was experiencing at the same time. Like on and off.
U2
9:47
Yeah. That's okay. I always like to clarify because people in the comments would say I didn't understand that bit. So yeah, I sort of got that's what you would say. Now, you said you started as an ethical vegan at 14. So I'm assuming you're talking about animals dying and those sort of things. Um, but obviously the we won't get into the fact that animals die even for a vegan diet. But, uh, obviously when you went carnivores, that still worrying you? Did you still think, oh, I'm going against everything that I believed. And this isn't ethical, but my health is more important. What was what was in your head, basically.
U1
10:25
So back then, I didn't have the foundation that I have now. And the way that I looked at it was, oh, well, I am eating animals that were killed for my diet. So this is kind of unethical. And I did feel guilty, but. As I. Uh, as the time passed and I learned more about how many animals actually do die for a vegan diet, for any diet, which it's in the billions, no matter how you eat, if you're buying food at the grocery store. There were there was, uh, life that was killed to bring the food to your table. So as I learned that, that definitely absolved a lot of my guilt and made me realize that it was kind of a myth to begin with, that I was, uh, preventing the death of animals, by the way I was eating. And then on top of that. 1s And what I always what I found very enlightening when I realized it was that if you eat, uh, beef, for example, I believe a cow can feed a family for an entire year or something like that. You know, I don't know the exact statistics, but if that's just one animal that's dying per year for a whole family versus the billions of animals that are dying for a vegan diet on a daily basis was with the plethora of foods that you're buying and supplements, then, you know, it's like, which one is really more unethical? It definitely. Uh, I it made me realize I was deceived. And it was because I didn't I just didn't look into it back then. I didn't want to look into it. Yeah. And I think it's so easy to say, well, look at carnivores. You know, that cow was definitely denied for your steak. And and because when you look at crops, people don't think how many animals are dying, how many bugs, butterflies, mice, voles, deer, all this sort of stuff. And the mono crop in ruining habitats. Just so you know, we've done the figures recently, and if you're on the lion diet, one person can live off one cow, uh, for a year. And, uh, on a vegan lifestyle, it's about 21 animals die in that same period. But if you eat a mixed animal diet, then it tends to be still four times less the amount of death. And there is like a vegan diet. So when we got the facts and figures, if you want to say that. But anyway. Right. Um, during this time you, you know, you use some pretty stark words like you had horrible mental health, urgent diarrhea and malnutrition, hospitalized twice during that period of time. 1s Um, was there anyone in your circle, your friends or family, saying to you, maybe the vegan diet that's causing it?
U2
13:06
My dad was always a pretty big skeptic, but he would make offhanded comments and it was kind of like, oh, my parents are just they just don't like that I'm vegan. But so my, my dad would make like noncommittal, like kind of offhanded comments about it. And I never took them seriously. But my dad's sister, who was a medical professional, she wasn't a doctor. I think she was maybe like a nurse's assistant or something like that. She reached out to me, oh, we don't live close to each other. So she reached out to me on Facebook. I remember when I got colitis and she was crying very earnestly to make me realize that I needed to start having bone broth. I needed to have collagen in my diet, or else my colitis would keep getting worse. And at the time, I just disregarded it. Um, and, you know, I now look back and I realized how right she was. Um, and there were others, too, before I.
U1
14:05
Uh, before I became diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, that, uh, expressed like skepticism. I remember one of the issues that I had that it was just another thing I just kind of brushed under the rug was my skin was it had like an orange tint. And that was, I think, in retrospect, because my body wasn't able to keep up with processing the amount of beta carotene that was in my diet. So I remember I had a coworker that one day pointed out my skin and she was like, you know, it's because you're vegan that your skin is yellow like that. And I remember I've never been one of those people that gets like, super bent out of shape. Uh, but I remember getting offended by what she said, and, uh, you know. Denying that that could be the case. But now I know it's the case because I no longer have that orange tint to my skin. So I definitely I got some flack in my personal life for sure.
U2
15:02
Yes. I mean, you can see it then yourself now quite clearly in photographs. Can you, when you look back at old photographs, you think, oh wow. Yeah. And I wonder people were talking about my skin. Can you see that?
U1
15:14
Yeah, 100%. I mean, even something that wasn't so apparent to me until recently was my hairline. I looked back at a picture from a few years ago, and I remember saying in interviews like this, uh, talking about how my hair was thinner and never really being able to find a good picture of it. And then one day recently, I did, and I could see how much thinner the hair was at the, uh, crown of my head. And, uh, it's just so enlightening. And it's it's another testimony for the carnivore diet, in my opinion, that these improvements keep showing themselves after years. Mhm. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at that picture now and you're and you're right, it's very feathery at the front, the very clear photographs as well because a lot of people say oh you're before photographs, a bit grainy. You can't see uh clearly. And that's why that one doesn't look good compared to one that's more recent because the cameras are better and all that. But, I mean, you're quite a young person and the, you know, your vegan hairline photograph on your Instagram, which I'll put into the video, you can see that there's a lot more here now. And, um, it's very evident. Why surprised me, actually, because obviously, before you came on, I was looking at bits and pieces to talk about, and, um, I would say, you know, your 2021 picture, um, it's difficult to see
U2
16:35
a lot of change in the skin, but you can definitely see it. So it is quite amazing, really. What about the complete reverse? Now, now that you're reversing all of your conditions and getting healthier, are you getting flack for being carnivore?
U1
16:51
Oh, yeah. So much. Uh, there have been times in the past few years that I had to just not look. It's not that it really bothers me too much, but just the having to see it and deal with it on a daily basis, sometimes I'm just not up to it. But yeah, every day, every day I get hate comments, especially from vegans and usually, uh, you know, I've gotten to the point where I just filter out the ones that are just unhinged because, you know, I've had people, uh, give death threats, say that I should have died from ulcerative colitis. It really is opened my eyes about how deeply some vegans really are steeped in, like, the cult of veganism, because I was never like that as a vegan, I would say in testimonies, and I would just go on my merry way. It didn't bother me. So, you know, that's been very, uh, eye opening. But on the other hand. Outside of the comments that I get from vegans, I get criticism. I would say almost every day from on my on my Instagram, from people that are just skeptical of the carnivore diet, people that are, uh, I, I remember distinctly I had this one guy who just kept showing up to my notifications recently, who coincidentally has his own supplement company and does his own health consultations, trying to convince everyone that the carnivore diet doesn't work when meanwhile, you know you're promoting supplements. But yeah, I, I've had people like that. I've had people, you know, that are, uh, they say that they're nutritionists, which, you know, I don't necessarily doubt that are that of, you know, try to say that what I'm talking about is wrong. But at the end of the day, I've healed all these health issues. So I, I'm, I don't it's not wrong to me. Um, but yeah, I, I've gotten a lot of flak from vegans and then from people that just, I would say eat a standard American diet or even what they consider to be like the healthier version of a standard American diet.
U2
18:50
Yeah. And the world frustrates me is it's evident that you're healthier and you've done both of ways of eating and, um, the kind of awe is helping you and the vegan isn't didn't. So what's the issue? I mean, I really, genuinely don't understand how people could say, oh, that's really bad for you when obviously veganism was really bad for you. So where can you go? I mean, if you didn't do carnivore and you didn't do vegan, you would be stuck with the standard American diet, which is which is about the worst of everything.
U1
19:21
Yeah. You know, like that is sad to me to how some people, I think if they stop being vegan, they think that they're just destined to eat in a way that's going to give them health issues, uh, because they go back to the standard American diet when it doesn't have to be that way. And I, you know, a big source of confusion, I think, for people is be going from one extreme to the other and from the outside. I can empathize with what they're criticizing me for, because I think that if I hadn't gone through these experiences, I would kind of have the same response. But ultimately, I, I always explain it as I came to this way of eating, essentially because everything that I took out of my diet was causing me issues. So why would I go back to eating things that do cause me issues? Like that's ultimately why I stick to this way of eating.
U2
20:12
Yeah. I mean, why would you do that? Why would you make yourself unhealthy again? It seems really obvious to me, and I'm glad that you sort of researched the ethical side, because, you know, that would be difficult to do it just for your health and then feeling that you're still killing more animals, even though that isn't the case, you know? So was there a particular couple of influences that you started to follow that were quite inspirational and helpful on your journey?
U1
20:37
Definitely steak and butter gal. She was the first person, I believe that I found who was doing the carnivore diet, and I was just shocked at her skin and the improvements that she said that she had from doing the carnivore diet. It was almost all of me. It's it's truly sad. It was almost all of the benefits that I was promised veganism would give me, but it just didn't. It never delivered. And then I switched to the carnivore diet after, you know, being very sure of it after, you know, a few months of researching it. And then I found that it actually did work. Um, so there was her, I would say I found Sean Baker pretty early on, uh, where I found ten very actually very early on. And I like that he has, like, very digestible, easy to understand videos about the carnivore diet. And then on top of that, he's a doctor. So that gave me confidence. I found Doctor Anthony Chaffee. 1s In terms of influencers, I would say steak and butter gal at the outset was the the main person that I found that was just an advocate for the carnivore diet who really convinced me because she was, you know, showing these benefits, that she was having that apparent. And so the benefits she was having were essentially like a parent in her videos. So that really sold me.
U2
22:01
Yeah. And she had very similar issues, and I think she was vegan for a long time and skin issues and really nice clear photographs so you can see the difference. And of course Bill is very inspirational. Um, you also pick Sean there and Kimberly and Chafee, who were very well known influencers. So they're pretty good people to follow, I think, um, was it was good that you tried bone broth first. So it was like a tentative journey in in your skin improved right away. You said they took you 2 to 3 months before you started eating chicken and turkey. Why was you so reticent to sort of really dive in? What? Was there a reason for that?
U1
22:40
Definitely because it was just hard for me to make that switch to eating meat again. Before I did start eating chicken and turkey, I did start having fish and eggs pretty quickly after, and I think that was because after having the bone broth, it it like gave me a taste of what it was like to have animal products again. So and because I started to feel myself feeling better, I wanted to diversify and include more. So I did include fish and eggs pretty quickly, maybe within like about two weeks after that. And then I stuck with that for a few months. And finally I made the switch, and it was because I was just feeling so much better. Logically, I could only conclude that what I was doing was right. If I was going to keep seeing improvements in the way I was feeling and in my just general health. So that was what made me switch over as time went on too. I was definitely researching, but I believe that it was more so maybe about 4 to 6 months in. But I started to follow, uh, people in the community and, and start to really understand why these things, these foods were helping me so much.
U2
23:55
Yeah, I think a lot of vegans almost say, like, it's a magic switch. You know, they start to eat animal based food, whatever it is, and their brain lights up or their energy comes back and it's it is like a switch. And I think that's, um, that's why I was a bit surprised that there was a delay between the bone broth and the sort of meat, I suppose. Um, so. So now you are a carnivore. I know you have lemon in water, I think is one of the things you said jokingly on Instagram that isn't carnivore. Um, and what was the other thing? Possibly coffee? Yes. Um, what do you what have you what is your routine now? Are you two meals a day? Do you. And I'm only beef or what? What's your what's your thing?
U1
24:40
Usually I would say two meals a day. Even lemon juice I've found I don't really need anymore. It does tend to hurt my throat, so I it's a rare thing, but I do still have coffee. Coffee, coffee, I always say, is my one vice. Um, but my diet is pretty. It's very boring. Like, I feel redundant explaining it, but I usually do stick with red meat. Ruminant meat tends to make me feel my best. It tends to, you know, one of the things that I was shocked when I started having beef tallow was that it literally clears my sinuses. So I stick to ruminant me for the most part. But I do have chicken every once in a while. I do have fish. I love salmon, especially, uh, I have some dairy. I have found that lactose doesn't really agree with me, so there are carnivore foods that I don't do because it you know, some of them do give me inflammation having to do with theory. I do. The only snack I really eat on a daily basis is like plain pork rinds. Uh, which again, is like it's a rare thing. It's not an everyday thing, but mostly our deer stick to ruminant meat. Eggs. Uh, I, I eat butter on my usually tallow to cook usually. Um, so it's very, very simple, but it's continually working for me.
U2
26:03
And how is your mental health now?
U1
26:06
It's like night and day. I. 1s I would say my biggest issue previously was my anxiety. Um, even getting on a podcast like this or, uh, public speaking especially used to be one of my biggest fears. I would literally feel like I was going to pass out when I had to do presentations for my bachelor's degree, and I don't get that anxiety anymore. With with driving to driving was one of my biggest, uh, the biggest things that would cause anxiety for me. And it just doesn't happen anymore. I'm not experiencing those same, uh, that same, like, uh, a pump of adrenaline for things that it just makes no sense. Like there's no reason for me to be feeling it. So that's improved greatly on a daily basis. My, uh, just general well-being is so much better. My self-esteem is so much better. I definitely conduct myself in a more, uh. 2s I don't know. I just feel like I have. I get more respect from people now than I did when I was vegan, because people would assume that I was like, hi and stuff because I was like very out of it and didn't have a lot of energy on a daily basis. So it's been in that sense, it's also been like a night and day improvement.
U2
27:24
And do other people say it as well? People that have known you for a long time. You're like a different person now.
U1
27:30
My fiance does. I mean, he also started eating this way too when I started, so he's kind of seen a lot of the same improvements. He was never vegan, but he used to eat. We used to eat very similar. So he's seen profound improvement. So we kind of saw the changes together, but he can see it. Everybody that's been in my life for a while can see it. But I've noticed even with jobs, my current job, I didn't really know any of my coworkers when I was vegan. But just the way that I interact with people and the way I'm treated at this job is completely different in a good way than it was in my previous job. So I definitely see it in my personal life with my relationships. 100%.
U2
28:16
Yes. That's brilliant. That's really good. You also mentioned, um, malnutrition sort of under eating. Um, now you're a carnivore. Do you ever worry about overeating? How do you work out how much you want to eat or need to eat you intuitive, or do you track macros? What do you do?
U1
28:34
I used to be more. I used to cry because I think I was in the habit of it when I was vegan. And then I started to. I don't I don't weigh myself anymore. Just it's something that I, I, it's something that I've overcome doing. Like, I don't feel like I need to do it anymore. So I stopped doing that. But then with the carnivore diet, I was kind of, I just out of habit. I think I was kind of keeping track of how many calories I was eating. And it's it was like a leftover habit from when I was vegan. And I noticed I was losing too much weight, so I just stopped. And now I just eat however much I want, which I'm never tempted to overeat anymore. So because of that too, because I have so much more satiety, I was able to finally get it through my head. Like I can just eat the amount that my body wants and be fine and not have to worry about it. And since then, I haven't noticed. Uh, I haven't noticed that, like, if she where I seem to be like progressively losing weight over time. So yeah, I just eat how I just eat the amount that I want to. And it's been working well.
U2
29:46
Do you find it just simpler and easier then?
U1
29:49
Oh, yeah, 100%. I would say that that was another kind of mental thing that I needed to let go of, that that was with me from my time being vegan. And, uh, it's been very relieving and it's cleared up a lot of my, um, like, mental bandwidth to stop doing that. 1s And what made you
U2
30:09
go on the internet? Go on Instagram as the plant eater and talk about this.
U1
30:15
So everybody that I knew for a while when I was a vegan, uh, that, you know, they all knew that I was this, like, girl who had been vegan for ten, ten plus years. Um, they, you know, I was kind of, like, known that way. I didn't have an internet presence, but everybody in my life knew that I was vegan, basically. And when I stopped being vegan, I did want to talk about it on social media, because I was experiencing such profound improvements and changes that I felt like I just needed to talk about it. And I remember I made a post on my personal Instagram, and a lot of people I think were just very confused, and most people didn't really give me a response where they they found any value in it. And I decided that. I, you know, I just kind of thought to myself, maybe I should make a separate platform because I can't really expect the people in my personal life to necessarily want to hear about this or care about this. So I started my Instagram. Like I always say this in podcasts when I talk about it kind of as a joke. I, you know, I was thinking the explanatory was like a kind of hyperbolic type of username, you know, obviously an exaggeration, but now kind of true. And I started it to just see what would happen to tell my story. And I was very shocked at the snowballing effect and how quickly it grew. Um, and, you know, right now I'm just in. I always say this. I'm just an advocate for the carnivore diet. I don't do coaching or anything. I just like to talk about it because it has helped me so much. So that was that was why I made the Instagram. And there was certainly a night and day difference between the people in my personal life versus the people that actually were, uh, you know, looking to find stories like this. Uh, I've received so much support. It's been mind blowing.
U2
32:18
Yeah. It's a very supportive community, isn't it? The carnivore community, I think it's, uh. It's amazing. And it's always surprising for me how supportive and genuine everyone is. So $1 million question then. If someone was watching this now and they're sitting on the fence and they might be vegan or standard American diet, and they are reluctant to try the kind of a diet, would you have any sort of words of advice for them?
U1
32:44
First of all, I would say just cry it for a few days and see how you feel, but try it earnestly. Don't do it like half and then say that it didn't work. Don't write off like try it for two days and see how you feel. On the other hand to. 1s Somebody that I did a podcast with said this quote, and it was like, uh, let the open mind that led you to veganism be the open mind that leads you out of it. And it is very profound because I considered myself to be open minded when I started being vegan, and I couldn't just turn my back on that with carnivore, and I allowed it to lead me to eating this way. So that's another thing I would say, uh, for people to consider, you know, if you consider that you are this tolerant, open person or being vegan, but it's not working for you, maybe be open minded to doing something else.
U2
33:38
Yeah, that's a nice phrase, and I think I might borrow that actually. That's really good. Um, another one I heard was you have to get a new set of beliefs because, um, you do learn about the animal deaths and you learn ever such a, like, opens your eyes, actually, which is odd for me, because in my 20s, I did have a vegetable patch and I grew all sorts of veg. And I can remember I made it like Fort Knox. You know, I used every sort of chemical and every sort of trap, and at no point did I think I'm killing animals, even though I knew I was killing animals because it even, you know, have like a green fly on the potato plants. So I would go in and find a poison that killed green Fly. But I didn't ever think of killing lots of animals. I never thought that, you know. And when I put traps down, I didn't think, oh, there's going to be a little mouse here that's going to die. I just thought, I'm growing my veg. So I think some sometimes that really obvious thing when you hear it, when you're open minded, you're not, um, ready to receive, you know, you're not ready to hear that. And it just doesn't resonate, you know, and you can be an intelligent person and not really get how much, um, you're you're killing. You're killing the surroundings. You know, it's incredible. I look back and I think, wow, I killed hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of animals just to grow potatoes, raspberries, you know, some carrots. And I was so proud of myself. And I look back now, and I feel quite ashamed, actually. But anyway, um, that was brilliant. As everybody knows who watches me, I only talk for about half an hour. Unless there's anything else you'd like to add to
U1
35:18
your seat. 2s How is it? I mean, I feel like we really covered all the bases. Um, it was really nice talking to you. And thank you for having me on.
U2
35:28
That's great. And all your, um, Instagram, all your links will be in the description. So, um, just look down below if you want to see more from the ex plant eater.