77. Stroke Recovery and Finding Strength: A Conversation with Jan Burl

In episode 77 of Survivor Science, I sit down with stroke survivor, author, and coach Jan Burl to talk about her incredible journey of resilience and recovery. Jan shares her powerful story of surviving a severe hemorrhagic stroke, the challenges she faced in rebuilding her life, and how she found purpose through writing, coaching, and breathwork. From her early days of struggle to becoming a guiding voice for other survivors and caregivers, Jan’s story is a testament to perseverance and self-discovery.

We dive into the importance of taking ownership of recovery, finding ways to adapt to new realities, and the role of breathwork in managing stress and improving focus. Jan also opens up about her work with caregivers, helping bridge the gap between survivors and their loved ones to create better understanding and support. She talks about the unexpected ways her stroke led her to new opportunities, including writing children’s books, poetry, and coaching others through their recovery journeys. Her insights remind us that stroke recovery is not just about physical rehabilitation, but also about reshaping identity and embracing new possibilities.

This episode covers the real and raw aspects of life after stroke—navigating relationships, overcoming self-doubt, and redefining what it means to live a fulfilling life. Whether you're a survivor, a caregiver, or someone looking for inspiration, this conversation is packed with valuable takeaways and reminders that growth is always possible, no matter where you are in your journey.

Hey there! If you’re a stroke survivor, caregiver, or someone navigating recovery, I want to invite you to check out The Center by Survivor Science. Head over to center.survivorscience.com and join a community that understands what you're going through.

And if you’re not quite ready to join, that’s okay! You can still access free resources at survivorscience.com 

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Transcript

0:01

All right, it is we are live so welcome. Welcome to the podcast. Uh, Jan, nice to have you. Nice to see you again. I know we saw each other yesterday and a couple of times in the last week, but yeah, welcome to Survivor Science and uh, hopefully, you know, our, my audience or. Our audience, I guess, you know, we want to hear your story as a survivor and, uh, kind of get right into it. So I know I'm being Mr. Radio voice right now, but, um, yeah, we've chatted so much that, you know, for everybody listening, Jen and I have chatted a bunch in the last week. So. Now we're recording the episode and things are uh, it's not weird But it is a little weird when you talk to somebody and then you talk to them again and pretend like you haven't talked to Them so yeah, let's dig into your story. Jen. You're um, i'll let you take the reins. But yeah, welcome to the show Thank you, Will. It's wonderful being with you again, and I always love our conversations. Yeah, agreed. Um, I'd like to start out with doing breath work to calm everybody's over busy mind so that they can pay attention to what you and I say and feel more relaxed. Fair enough, and I actually need that as well, so I may close my, I'll leave my eyes open, but I'm, hmm. That's up to you. Mostly. So, let's begin by finding a comfortable position. You can be sitting down or you can be lying down. Close your eyes if it feels safe. Otherwise, stay here with me. I won't let you, anything happen. And take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it gently for a count of three. And now, Slowly exhale through your mouth, letting out a soft sigh. Let's do that again. Inhale deeply, filling your lungs completely as much as you can. Hold for three. And when you let the air out, let go of anything that doesn't serve you as you breathe out. Feel all the tension leaving your body like a gentle wave as your shoulders relax. Now, bring your focus to the rhythm of your breath. Breathe in deeply, drawing in fresh energy. And, as you exhale, silently say to yourself, I let go. Inhale, calm. Exhale, I release. Inhale, peace. Exhale, I am free. With each breath, imagine anything weighing you down, dissolving into the air, leaving you lighter and more open. Feel your shoulders soften, your jaw unclench. And your mind clear. Let's take one more breath together. Inhale deeply. Hold for a moment. And exhale completely. Now when you're ready, gently open your eyes. Carrying this sense of ease with you. Into the present moment. Hello, everyone. Thank you, Jen. For those of Noah Previous listeners of previous episodes. No, I'm really into breathwork. And that was a nice nice opener. I appreciate that because I I'm sorry. I'm talking before I'm letting you go, but I had a really busy day yesterday One of the busiest I've had a long time and I did not get in my 15 miles yesterday. So I feel a little bit all over the place and I appreciate that because I need to kind of recenter, uh, this morning was very busy and I'm really looking forward to get back into the gym this afternoon after our chat and, uh, getting a little running in and getting some sauna time where I like to do my breath work and meditation. So great timing. Really? Neither that probably should have closed my eyes, but for, for those that might be watching, I didn't want to close my eyes the entire time because I thought it might be weird. So anyways, good to have you, Jan, and I'm sorry I let you take the reins and share your story. That's all right. I was adopted at birth by, um, a wonderful family, but unfortunately my mother lost to her demons and alcoholism took over and she became abusive. It changed my trajectory in life to being one of a people pleaser because I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong to always make her feel so upset and so mad at me. Flash through a lifetime of people pleasing to my last partner who wanted to be a farmer and I had put so much into trying to make his dreams come true. I was actually sleeping two, three hours a night. Every night I'd get up at four o'clock in the morning and start baking and then I'd go out into the garden, do some weeding and do some harvesting for the day's farmer's markets. Then I'd go to the farmer's market and that's a whole nother story. They're, they're fun, but they're a lot of work. Come home, unload the truck, go back to baking, go back to outside and empty out the trailer. Head back out to the garden and do some more harvesting for the next, the next day. And end at about two o'clock in the morning with fresh loaves of bread just out of the oven. Yeah, and your body cannot maintain something like this for very long, and I did it for years. So, I was going in to get some fruit so I could make some nice fruit coffee cakes, and I fell to the ground. I said, uh oh, I knew I was having a stroke because my right side didn't work. So I called my son, told him, hung up on him, called my partner, told him, hung up on him and called 9 1 1. But by that point, I couldn't speak anymore. Luckily, we were connected, 911 and I, and the ambulance got to me. They took me to the local hospital. And you know something, Will? I have always wanted to ride in a helicopter. I got to ride in a helicopter, but unfortunately, I don't remember any of it. So I need another helicopter ride someday. I was flown over to Burlington. Where I was um, basically they were supposed to go into my brain and drain the fluid, the blood that had broken and was seeping into a huge section of my brain. But they didn't think I was going to make it because it was so severe. So they just sat back and three days later, I came to, I saw my daughter there who had flown in from Colorado and I couldn't speak, I couldn't move, I couldn't read, I couldn't write, and my cognitive abilities, well, if you showed me the picture of a banana, I'd say a tree or something very odd like that. So they didn't expect very much from any recovery. Because the damage was so severe, I was in rehab for six weeks and they figured that was as far as they could get me. So I was sent home. I had done hemi walking. I was in a wheelchair, but I could walk about 10 feet with a hemi walker, which is half of a regular walker. They had showed me how to take showers. in my wheelchair, um, how to cook things from a wheelchair. They taught me everything basic that I could do in my wheelchair with my left hand and there wasn't anything else they could do for me. So they sent me home, and I spent the next couple months with, um, OT and PT, and also speech pathologist. Right. Until they figured I could walk far enough that I could get down to a car that was sent to me from the county, uh, ride service. Right. To take me to physical therapy. I stayed in physical therapy from January until March, and they said, That's it. We can't help you anymore. And. I was basically set out on my own and let fly. Now, I had been a substitute teacher full time for over 20 years. And I knew all those kids at this school, and they had been keeping in touch with me. It was very strange, but even though I couldn't read, they could talk to me, and I could type on my phone. Even though I couldn't read what I was typing, I somehow did a pretty good job, and I could talk with them back and forth. And during this time, I was starting to pick up words that I still couldn't read, and The school called me and said, we'd like to have you come back in September. I'm like, Oh, I'd love to come back. None of the administration or the teachers knew that I couldn't read, that I was having problems with aphasia. And had a hard time speaking. But the kids took care of that. They were, oh my god, they were so amazing. They became my cheering committee. And they would meet me at the beginning of the day in whatever classroom I was in. They would write the teacher's notes up on the board. And they would read everything out loud. They didn't have to, but they did anyway because I could follow along and they, they checked to make sure I knew where they were. What's the next word, Ms. B? They'd say. So without those kids, I would not be where I am today. They helped me walk around the school. They would meet me on my periods off and sit and talk to me and talk and talk. And by the time I got home, I couldn't speak at all, but my abilities increased because of what they did. And I, I can't say enough for those kids and even some of the kids that were given up on by some of the other teachers because they were rough and they didn't listen and for some reason they always seemed to gravitate to me and talk with me. So they were some of my best helpers. Yeah, that's actually, that's, that's a really amazing and interesting story because I know it's a little different. Your students were not actually your children, but I had my stroke at 37. So two of my kids, well, all three of my kids were amazing. And so was my wife, but my kids were very similar. They were four and five at the time. They didn't really get it. I'm not sure they still get it because they're only like nine and 10, but they've always been very helpful. And, um, you know, I think it's interesting when you have a stroke, right? Cause you, once you sort of wrap your head around everything a couple months into it, you're like, okay, this. Is not ideal, but your abilities sort of do take a hit. You almost kind of go back to that age, childhood, young adult, where your handwriting or some things just change. Right. And you kind of got to go back to come forward. And I think that's kind of, I mean, it's terrible, but it's also nice to have those people around because it's like, okay. Not exactly the way I was going into things, but they're helping you because you're helping them and it's it's really interesting Before we continue on I just want to clarify so so you actually did you have a hemorrhagic stroke? Yes, I did and the doctors said that the hemorrhagic stroke had wiped out This is literal quote all my prime real estate which left me nothing but swamp and desert but as a farmer if you mix swamp and and sand together, you can get nice land again. So that's what I figured to do. And I kept working on it. That's, that's an amazing take because I think, you know, it's 50, 50, some people go one way, some people go the other, there might be an in between, but yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's amazing when I hear people kind of take a situation and try to make the best of it, I think that's really important for all survivors to know, and if you've kind of gone the one way, it's never too late to change, to be honest, I don't, I don't think, I think you can, you know, You can feel down, you can feel sorry. Like that first year, everybody generally doesn't feel great about it. You know, it takes some time. Some people take less time. Some people take more time. And I think that's a, that's a really key lesson that you touched on just there is that, um, you know, taking the opportunity to really take action, I guess, is, is kind of always been my thing. It sounds like it's your thing too. Like. You know, some people don't survive a stroke. I mean, it's, it's a little better, I think, number wise than it used to be, but it's still kind of 50 50 sometimes. I mean With hemorrhagic strokes, 26 percent survive, and out of that 26%, only 3 or 4 percent ever may regain anything half as what they once had. Yeah. They end up in wheelchairs, couch potatoes, because everybody gives up on them, so they give up on themselves. Yeah, it's interesting, right? I think we talked about it this week. I don't know if we chatted about it yesterday, but I Also was in a wheelchair the first year and a half and my insurance I mean my story is a little different, but they sort of were like, okay Let's give him a power wheelchair cuz he's definitely never gonna Go beyond power wheelchair and wouldn't you know it they put that in the house and it sat in the same place Well, no to be fair. It sat in the house from day one I didn't really use it mostly because it's very big even though I have an open concept house But I still have it sitting Taking up space in my house and I just look at it and I'm like I never want to be in that again Like beyond the day, I think I came here and I sat in it I've only ever sat in it just as an extra chair. So I just had a regular wheelchair and I did everything left handed. Regular wheelchairs are tricky, right? Like I think that was part of my motivation to get out of it is because my wife is like five foot two and I'm six foot eight. So you can imagine I didn't have a regular size wheelchair. So I was very adamant about getting out of it. One, I don't like being six, eight and sitting down all the time because I tried that. A couple of, you know, the first year I didn't have a choice in public, but I watching my wife's struggle to get the wheelchair in and out for me was really enough more than enough motivation for me to figure out a way to get out of that wheelchair. Cause it was just, I would see her struggle and my daughter's struggle. Cause she was in high school at the time. I was just like, I don't want to be that burden on people. Like, yeah, cause wheelchairs are not. I don't care if you're 100 pounds or 500 pounds, they're really not that fun to assemble and disassemble. They're not impossible, but they're really not ideal for long term if you can try to get out of it, I think. Agreed. Agreed. I was in it for about nine months, and then I started walking more confidently with the Hemi Walker, and I just refused to sit in it from that point on. And my then partner decided that he was not going to help me at all. Because I was alone so much of the time, he said, you have to know how to do it yourself. So he was hands off, which it was good. It made me struggle. It made me mad at myself that I couldn't do things that made me cry. And then I get up again and just go to it. So it wasn't a bad thing, at least not completely. Yeah, it's just with some of the other things that would have been nice. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really tricky balance for anybody out there who is not the actual survivor that may be a caregiver, caretaker, whatever, whatever word you want to use on the given week. It is tricky for them and for the survivor to figure out like, okay, how far do I push? When do I push? When do I ask for help? Finding that balance is tricky. I kind of agree with you. Like it's not the worst thing, but also it's nice to have a fallback sort of when you need it. Cause you want to be safe. At least in my mind, like I survived a stroke. It's like, I struggle with this, honestly, balancing things. Like do I run 20 miles a day? Or maybe I could just run five or 10. It's, it's a constant struggle, even five years out. Um, just before we keep going. for the audience. Uh, so you told your story a bit way. How long ago was your stroke? Just, uh, my stroke was July 25th of 2015. Okay. So you're coming up on 10 years this year. Yes, I am. Another big milestone. That's amazing. Um, yeah. So I guess Sorry, I kind of cut you off there. I get excited. Sometimes I jump in with tidbits or things that I think are really important that you're saying to reiterate to the audience. Um, So, so yeah, let's go back to that. You were you're kind of figuring things out So how those first couple years go once you started to walk, what was that? Like well, believe it or not those kids started me off and then I started picking up my kids My children were grown and gone, but I started picking up the board books that I'd kept. The ones that showed a cow and said cow underneath, and I started reading. That way, with children's books, a little at a time, and then, of course, the kids were getting me to read in school. So, my recovery, it started to come in leaps and bounds with the reading and the cognitive abilities, just because of all that constant, um, what's a good word for it? Constant reinforcement. And the COVID was Horrible because our school shut down and I had no job. I had nothing to do. And my daughter took the reins and said, mom, you ever think of going back to school? And I said, no, but she got me into thinking about it. And I always wanted to be. And I have been writing this memoir about everything I've gone through that I should be working on getting out into the, into Amazon this year. So I said, okay, yeah, I'll go back. I'll do it for creative writing. And I went to SNHU and they were wonderful with me. I graduated summa cum laude. And that is quite an accomplishment because the first two semesters, I would write a paper or write a poem and within 10 minutes, not remember what I'd written, which sounds horrible, but for editing was a lot of fun because it was like reading somebody else's paper. And you can actually hop right back into it if you can't remember it because it's, it's kind of fresh in your mind, so it's, you don't have to kind of step away maybe as long. Yeah, so if you turn things around that would normally depress someone and make it into a super power, you move forward and things don't bother you as much and you find different ways to deal with things. And then my mother came up with this neat little supplement. She said it was supposed to help the brain. I said, okay, it's called DHA. It's just, you can get it in Amazon. And I started taking that. And within three to four weeks, I was starting to remember. It was Like a lightbulb, I've come on. So my last two, um, terms were wonderful. Nice. Um, and then I got out. I became a assistant produ production assistant. Okay. There we go. Associate productive assistant for, um, an online poetry journal. Which has since closed down, unfortunately, because they were located in Israel. Okay. And it got too bad. But I did that on a volunteer basis. I started tutoring kids that were out in California for English in high school, and all of a sudden, I found this neat thing. Corey, um, Poirier is a wonderful speaker, and he writes books and everything, and he had a podcast. No, it, not, well, not a podcast. He had a, a, um, Like a live stream. No, it was everybody got together and he was for three days. It was, uh, oh, okay. Like a cohort kind of kind of like a class, but like a, yeah, cohort. I think it's like a shorter class. No, he calls it. So it's a. Oh, it's called so many things. It depends on the person. It could be a cohort. It could be a workshop. It could be a seminar. It could be. No, he was teaching and he had amazing people come in and he had, um, offers. If you tell your story quickly, you have a minute and a half to these podcasters. You could get on their podcast and I was lucky enough to be picked by James Miller. So that started my podcasting as a guest. At one point, one of the podcasters said to me, are you a coach? And I said, um, I'm not athletic anymore. I don't think I can coach anything because I had no idea what a coach was other than the sports. And I went into that and started searching things out. I got certified in NLP. I got certified in expert coach. And I've been doing, um, breath work to learn how to teach that. And my coaching has changed my life because I see how it changes other people's lives by telling them that what they're going through is normal. It's okay. And. We'll get through it together. There are days you just have to curl up in bed and cry and rage and feel sorry for yourself, but the next day you get up again, sweep yourself off and go back at it. The biggest thing that I'm doing though is Also, working with caregivers and loved ones because there is such a divide between people who have had a stroke and people who haven't. They don't know. They don't understand. And it's not their fault. And I'm glad they don't understand, but I work on very different things that they can do to understand themselves. I tell the caregiver what the stroke person is feeling inside. And I have also I've talked with many caregivers, so I tell this stroke person what their caregiver, what their loved ones are going through and thinking as well, and open up a whole new dialogue between them of understanding, or at least trying to understand and think outside the box because nobody's, nobody's recovery is the same. Nobody's injury is the same. Right. Nobody's recovery is the same. Nobody's situation is the same. There's really limited resources, almost no resources for how to navigate it. I think from both sides, it's, it's a really, gosh, it is a really. Uh, this is not the right word, but unusual is putting it mild. It's, it's, it's a cluster is what it is. Um, a cluster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I use bad words all the time. I was actually, I was trying to refrain myself from the F word, but, uh, yeah, it's a clusterfuck it's it's. I sort of, I don't know how your experience was. Obviously we had a different situation, but like I was very. Lucky that I was cognitively there. So I became quickly aware that I was fucked for a lot, lack of a better word. So I was very appreciative of the nursing staff, the team at the hospital. I think I'm sure I was not easy to deal with for anybody, but I always sort of. Understood a little bit there. And I knew I tried to help my wife as much as I could. Like I was doing a lot of things at the hospital with the wifi, whatever I could do, I could try to do it to ease the burden because she was commuting back and forth from our house to the hospital daily with our kids. Like it was, thankfully I had a daughter who was driving at that point, but it's hard and I had family, but they were, they live across the country. Like they would come in, they would go out. Like it was just, it. It's hard. Honestly, getting home was a blessing and a curse. That wasn't a ton easier, but it felt easier initially, I guess, because it just felt like, okay, let's band together. But again, everybody's different. It's such a unique situation. And what you're doing, I think, is tremendous because I think, again, we talked about this this week, like there are You know, and to circle back, what you talked about earlier is like, you go to the hospital, you get as much therapy as you can until they kind of politely kick you out the door because your insurance might run out or, you know, their job really is to get you safe and to get you home because that for most people, they want to get home. Right? And so how can we get you home as fast as possible? Forget about the money thing. Like they just actually want to get you home and get you safe enough. Like, and then, so they kind of say bye and hand you a packet of information. You start going to doctors and it's, there's not a lot out there for afterwards. Like once reality sets in, I don't know where I was going with that, but it's, it's, it's an unfortunate situation that we hear over and over and over again from every survivor. Some luckier than others get a little bit more time, others do not, and some don't get any help, so it's, it's, it's wild, is what it is, really. I'm like you, I cannot sit still, at all, and I used to be a crocheter, so, come January, I was sitting in the house, couldn't go out because of the snow, and I decided, To start crocheting again. And it took me weeks of swearing and ripping out stitches and trying again, but I got to the point now with one arm, I can crochet my dragons. This is Saren. The reason I say it's Saren is because with my new degree, I write children's books. Let's see if I can get this so you can see it. Yeah, I can see it. As a way to give back to the genre that helped me out. So, I'm working on the third one, I'm working on a mid grade series, I'm working on a romance, a historical romance, and of course my memoir, and I write poetry. That's amazing. Do you want to hear a poem? Uh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. This is one I just wrote because I spent this Christmas completely alone and it was rough. Hmm. I would rather say. As the snow It's okay. As the snow flies quickly past, there is a cold touch on my skin. As I look to find emptiness, no warm arms, no heated kisses, no safe oasis for my heart. Alone in yearning, I close the doors and windows, locking everything out. Hope dissolves, all candles extinguished, yet. Dawn returns. Maybe. It is time to say goodbye. Goodbye to searching for. We are worth more than that. So goodbye to the wishing. Goodbye to the wasting. The short time left on this earth searching for. I am. You are. It is our time to be, and within that, find that it is enough to be here for others. So I light my candle and brighten a small corner of the world within, which I find is peace and love shared freely between friends, and that, that is more than enough. That's lovely. Thank you for sharing that. Um, you know, yeah, I was thinking there for a few minutes while you were reading the poem. Sorry, I was paying attention, but I was also thinking in my mind because I can't, can't stop moving. Um, sometimes that's, that's kind of my struggle is. I was thinking back to it because you touched on a couple of different things because your journey obviously now 10 years out just about this year will be your tenure. I hate when people call it stroke aversary, but I guess we'll go with that. I call it my birthday because that was the day the old me died and the new me was born. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's that. To eat their own, I think. I haven't decided what I want to call it. I honestly, I just realized this, so I just had my five year anniversary, if you will, and I didn't even have the right date'cause I, for years I thought it was like the 23rd, but that was actually not correct, which is so wild to think that I had the wrong day. I was only up by a day. So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Don't feel bad. I did too. Yeah. I wasn't off by like a month or anything weird like that. But it's, uh. It's got me thinking. So you mentioned a couple different moments. Um, would you say there was a pivotal moment in your recovery journey where things started to click where, or maybe a moment where, because I can think back to a moment where sort of everything sort of changed for me, but there's a little micro moments up to that. Um, is there a particular moment when something really Kind of, it might be more than one, but like one, like it sounds like the children working with you at the school, that might've been a big sort of. That was pivotal for my recovery, but it all for myself was the day that. That podcast host asked me why I wasn't a coach. And since then, everything has fallen into place. And I've even with the podcasting and with everything else I do and the teaching, I can teach people how to paint left handed. And that is something that you have to find things to do to keep your mind occupied. Yeah. If you just sit. Your mind starts to loop in on itself and starts to depress you. So if you find things to do, yes, so you're doing it left handed. So you're back in third grade trying to paint a picture and get used to doing it again. But we have fun and that's what it's about. And life is beautiful regardless of how you are. Just because you are in it and you can still experience things like I have a grandson that turns One year old in two days. Oh nice. Yeah, that's that's a funny age as long as you're the grandparent not changing the diapers Glad I made it out of that phase before my stroke because I can't imagine trying to change a diaper with my hands are good but I don't feel like Yeah, I feel like a baby right now would be way too much overwhelming. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's, it's so interesting, right? There's these moments that happened to us as survivors where things we never thought of or things we once thought of, but brushed aside, they kind of circled back and I want to get into the breathwork because I know you've been talking about that and I feel like. Looking back on my own journey, that was a big thing for me. Um, and I wish I had known about it sooner because like you, I'm from the East coast and I always thought, what is this breathwork stuff? Like it's woo woo. It always send a very California West coast, not to give them crap, but I'm going to give them crap. And. When I look, when I really open myself up to it, which is something I've done as a stroke survivor, I've really kept more of an open mind than I certainly had before my stroke. I was like, oh, breathing exercises. Like if somebody had just said it was breathing exercises to help you breathe better, I would have listened 20, 30 years ago when I was a kid playing sports, you know, when I was a bigger kid, but I would love sports, but I always Breathe through my mouth like most kids like you're just gasping for air and when you learn sort of these techniques It's wild because it's not complicated Generally, it's pretty like smooth. Honestly, it's it's so simple. You're just like, huh? Why did nobody ever mention these little tiny things like it's it's it's wild Right because I think about it from the athlete perspective You know, and there's many great benefits, but just even being able to breathe better as a kid playing sports, if you learn to control your breath and you focus on breathing, you can go much further, much longer. Like it's, it's, it's, it's really wild. And also simultaneously super easy, but people don't know it and people still kind of dismiss it a lot. And it's, it's wild to me now. I've been working with, um, not one on one, but Stephen Jaggers, who is part of SomaIQ. And I love the way he teaches because he goes at it in a peaceful way to help you control your mind so that, well, not control it, but quiet it. Yeah. So that you can listen and hear and relax. And it's a wonderful thing that I've been teaching a lot of the people that I work with I've seen so many wonderful results. I think there's so many benefits, you know, I think if more people understood the power of breathing and focusing, like I think back to kind of the before and after stroke, like before my stroke, I didn't have a lot of tools and I was drinking a lot, although it was very, like, Controlled. It was, it was not good. Right. And that's how you get to 500 pounds. You start drinking a lot of beer at six foot eight. And I was doing that to quiet my mind, but I didn't have the tools. Like I was always interested in meditation, but I couldn't figure it out for whatever reason, and same thing with breath work and like breath work. Can help you focus and just clear and center. And I know it sounds very woo woo, but it's so impressive. Like when you take it serious and you just try it, you're like. Wow. And it's one of these things that you can do and you can kind of learn and test in like 10 minutes. You could like, like I'll tell us, share for those that don't know. I very similar to Jan. I found a similar path, not the same person, but I learned that you could unblock your nose. And for me, I always breathe through my mouth because I, my nose was always stuffy and it's still always stuffy. Thanks to MS and cold weather here in Florida. I know I'm bitching about Florida weather, but it's cold and floor. And, um, Yeah, I learned to unblock my nose and that was kind of the thing that changed everything for me because then I was able to Nasal breathe and that led me down a whole rabbit hole really opened up my eyes to Calming the mind calming the brain slowing down some thoughts like You know, it sounds silly, but focusing on breath and taking 10 minutes to just sit up right in your chair, close your eyes, just breathe, or listen to a light meditation. Like, and you're like, you think about it. Sometimes we're sort of busy as East coasters. We tend to think like, go, go, go, go, go, but like, do you not have 10 minutes to just relax without any disruption? And once you kind of wrap your head around that, you're like, Oh, okay. 10 minutes. And I feel great for the rest of the day. Or. It's a 10 minute break instead of like having a snack have a 10 minute Meditation and it's wild how it's changed my life and I don't know, it's really underestimated and I think, you know, maybe you feel this way too. It's like when you're in that wheelchair after a stroke or for any reason in a wheelchair, you can't, it's not like you could just go walk or you would, you're in a wheelchair. How great is breathing for circulation and just calmness and anxiety? Just like, Oh, I could be doing breath work. In my wheelchair and that's something very productive and I just wish looking back I had known it that first year because it's I don't know. It's one of the few things you can really do in a wheelchair Sorry, I went on tangent there But I just I'm so passionate about breathwork and I know so many people dismiss it because of the term I think sometimes and it's just I don't think people quite understand the benefits And there are so many. Even just like what we did at the beginning of this, um, just feeling your shoulders relax is a wonderful thing and the tension just leaves. It's amazing. It really is. And again, I think people sort of dismiss it sometimes and maybe I say it too much. Like I wish more people understood. I mean, I always reference back to, you know, I, I was. Recommended a book by my sister in 2020. Of course, I didn't read it for 18 months later because this is how I usually do things with my sister. She'll mention the thing and then I'll wait a year and a half to do it. But it was probably summer of 22 when I read Breath by James Nestor. And I forget the rest of the title, but that's the main title. It's like Breath, uh, Lost, The Science of the Lost Art or something to that effect. But Breath is the main title. And James Nestor wrote for New York Times and is like, you know, very well known. And I just went way down the rabbit hole and I was like, this is amazing. And like it worked and that's kind of how I got started running. Um, you know, people always ask me how'd you start running? Well, well, I laced up my shoes. I could walk enough and I just went outside and started trying like there was no magic pill to running, breathing better. And then fucking lacing up my shoes and going outside. That's how it worked. I want to tell you it was some magical other thing, but that's exactly what I did. And so, yeah, I don't know. I just, um, To me, that's amazing. Being outside is also very important. I can't have the gardens that I used to have. Right. But I still, in front of our house, I play with them and I work with them and I grow fruits and vegetables and all my flowers. It is such a cathartic feeling being out there and being surrounded by beauty. It's something, if I were in a city, I'd be going to a local garden that you can walk through if I could. But up here on the Canadian border, there really isn't very much. Right, but you're still, I think that's a good lesson, is that, like, You know, maybe things are different, finding out things that you previously enjoyed and finding a new way to re fall in love with those things. You know, I used to love woodworking, and I'm, I'm still, you know, I'm a little reluctant with woodworking. Like, I could do some Little things here and there, certainly not to the level I used to be able to do. And obviously when you have MS and you're a stroke survivor, you're like, all right, well, maybe I don't need to work a table saw. Cause I'd like to keep my fingers. Cause I've worked really hard to get my body in shape now. Like I'm, I'm not looking to accidentally cut off finger, but like, yeah, I can get out there and build little small projects. And I think that's a great lesson to share with survivors is that like, yes, it might be different, but you could also like slowly rebuild to, you know, find a way to love the thing that you loved. If, if you want to love it again and then just slowly rebuild, I know it's hard to hear, it's annoying to hear, but like try it and like one step or two steps and just keep stacking those steps until you, you know, maybe you only get to step three and you want to get to step 10, but hey, step three is better than step zero. You know, something I've been. Painting a lot of birds. I love this painting. It's by Cardinal because birds see things from a different perspective than we do. So I think of life as, okay, now I'm a bird. I've got to do things differently. There is a way to do it. Not sure how I'm going to have to fight with it and figure it out, but sometimes it takes a couple of weeks and then all of a sudden the. Lightbulb comes on. It's like, Oh, I can do that. I know what to do. But you have to look at things from a different perspective because you don't have what you had before the stroke. Yeah, and I think that is, again, it's super important because, and, and, you know, the biggest thing too is like, I say this a lot, you know, you might make like, I'll just give a really bad example, but you might make a list of things that you used to love, right? And then you kind of evaluate that list and see like, what would I like to do again now? Right. And then you try a thing. And if it's, Maybe you're not able to do as much as you want. So go to the next thing, like keep the list and reevaluate it constantly. Because I think over time, as you start to kind of begin the recovery journey and figure things out and get body parts moving, that it's so weird. If you just keep kind of doing things, like you'd be surprised how things kind of snap into place where you least expect or when you least expect it. If that makes sense. Which is something I, you know, again, I look back on my own journey and like the running, like I started running because I thought it'd be funny and it became a real obsession, but it really opened up a lot of other things. Like, I think my, my hand, somebody asked me recently, like, how'd you fix your hand? I, I'm like, I don't even know. I think I was just probably relying on my left hand and I was using my right hand as like a partner. Sort of my left hand became my right hand and vice versa because I was righty. But eventually it just kind of. I don't know, things just sort of work at some point. And if you just, you know, you got to be smart and take things easy and be safe, but also sometimes not overthinking things and just doing a thing or many things will just work. And it's really interesting. I think, um, I think a lot of people don't put enough stock into that. You know, like you said, you were. In your recovery journey, you were, um, obviously the first while you were recovering, but then you kind of went back into the school system, working with kids and those kids kind of helped you get a little bit further and things sort of started to click and obviously COVID didn't help anybody. But you pivoted again and like creative writing took you on another path and it's just really it's a very interesting story It's it's you know, I think a lot of us as stroke survivors are kind of figuring out what's the next move Where do we go? And sometimes it's just yeah, it sounds corny or It seems like it lacks focus, but you kind of just have to let yourself and your body figure things out. If that makes any sense, like, you know, have goals, have things you want to do, but also be open to other opportunities and things you're not expecting, I think. The only thing that I haven't done yet, yet is my favorite word because it leaves it open for me. Very important. To get back out on the water, sailing and kayaking. I miss that. But everything else that I did before I can do now different ways, a little bit slower than I was, but there isn't anything you can't do if you take the time to figure it out. That is another excellent point is that I, I have struggled with this the first five years is sort of accepting the, I can do most of everything I used to be able to do. I'm still struggling with the fact that like I get frustrated or disappointed with myself. When I can't do things as fast as I used to be able to do them, but I constantly try to remind myself that, and this is going to sound a little arrogant and I don't mean it to, but I think I was used to such a speed that was so significantly different than the majority of people that like my speed now is normal. But I just want my speed now to be at the speed it was. And maybe that's part of the stroke journey is that like, and I always look at it this way too, is like to have a stroke at 37, you have to do some pretty sick, like to have any ischemic stroke, at least like you have to do some, I didn't have a brain bleed. I had a ischemic stroke, so I had to do some pretty significant damage to myself, my brain and my body to kind of go through that. Obviously every situation is unique, but I look at it as though I was doing a lot of things wrong. And my body's like, listen, I'm going to give you two options. You're either going to have a stroke and live, or you're just going to. be done at 37, and I feel very lucky and fortunate to, to have that second chance at life. That's why I'm so passionate about helping other stroke survivors doing this podcast, help helping people get together, find resources because it's exhausting. It's tiring. You know, you've been on the journey. There are limited resources. There are limited helpful resources, and it takes a lot of work. And so. Uh, the point of that is getting back to the things I think a big point for most people is like you can get back to where you used to be, but also give yourself some grace and recognize that you may not be able to do it the way you used to, but also think of it from the other side, the early days when you don't think you'll be able to do anything and doing it. Again, and slower is better than not being able to do it at all. True. And when those frustrations come up, what do you do? Take a very deep breath and calm yourself down and then you can get back to things. Yeah. I mean, before my stroke, I could not crochet a stuffed animal. I could do blankets and shawls and shirts and stuff, but that was it. And now, with only one hand, I'm creating all sorts of things. Puppets for kids and, oh well. I can go on, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's true too. Right? Like, uh, so I was so focused on my working career before my stroke that I, I wasn't, I never neglected my children. They were still very young. So like, they weren't like kind of at that age where we can go, but now working from home working for myself, like I, I spent time with my. Boys in particular, cause my daughter's a little older. She's, she's got her own life a little bit, even though she lives at home. But I go outside and play with my boys almost every evening. If they want to, you know, not every day to do they want to. There are, they're very much Florida boys now. They don't like if it's under 50. So we haven't been out this week, but I have the opportunity and availability. And I want to make that time to go throw the football, to try to play basketball. Although it's not as pretty as it used to be because of the stroke, but basketball, you, you know, just. Perspective changes. And I think that's super important because things that I wasn't into, I'm now into like breathwork and meditation. I've taken that again. It's, it's changing the perspective and being open to things that maybe you weren't open to before, and you kind of experienced life in advance. I'm not going to say better or worse, I guess, just different. And it's, it's, it's interesting, I guess, is, is where I'm going with that. It's, I don't know. I feel like there was a question there, but I guess I didn't have one. Um, so yeah, we talked about a little bit about you are kind of focusing on coaching and writing now. It seems like you're like the majority of stroke survivors I speak to. It's like you, you know, I know you're obviously everybody's different. But in a sense, we're similar, like I know you don't run 20 miles a day, but in a sense, you're running 20 miles a day because you're writing, you're coaching, you're helping people, you're doing a lot of different things. I agree. Um, staying active is important. I think it's stroke recovery. And I think another good lesson to learn is that it's a continual process, right? And you're about to come up on 10 years. I'm sure the things you maybe wish you learned sooner, but also I think it's a good point because I kind of, I get stuck on this sometimes I'm like, Oh, I'm five years out. I should be much better at a lot of things. I'm like, it still takes time. Like it still takes time. Tell you a secret. I do 200 sit ups every other day. I couldn't do that before. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I hated running my whole life, even though I was an athlete and played sports. But once I got off the field or off the court, I didn't want to run for shit. I still don't want to be that kind of runner, air quote. Like my wife is a marathoner. I have no interest in signing up for marathons or doing any of those things, even though I've ran more than a marathon on some days, depending on the weather. And it's, uh, It's interesting, right? It, it, it, it's kind of funny, and a little bit fun, and I guess, I guess the point is, like, listen, it's not, this is a club nobody wants to be a part of, and if you can Do everything like I know our stories are different, but I, I take a lot of onus on my, my stroke because I believe I was doing a lot of things wrong and I could have been doing them very differently and I could have very much avoided my stroke, whereas it does sound like, you know, you had a little bit of the sleep thing, but like. Otherwise, you weren't unhealthy really other than the lack of sleep. I was. Um, my veins are very brittle. So I had my blood pressure was raised and it just shattered my veins in my head. Okay. All right. Fair enough. I mean, some of them. Yeah. Um, I. I don't know what was the point of that. I'm sorry. Um, I don't know. I had a point there, but I think it's like, it's a lot of every stroke is different and I think a lot of us probably feel like we could have done things differently and we probably are doing them differently now as a result. Because again, not everybody survives and those that do feel very fortunate. I know I do like, it's not always as sunny and bright as I would like it to be. But you know, that's part of stroke too. That's part of life. It doesn't matter if you're a stroke surfer or not. Everybody has up and down days and it's, it's, you know, we try to make it different sometimes as stroke survivors. It's just our perspectives shifts and we think it might be related to stroke, but then you look at somebody else and you're like, well, no, it's just, it's just age and it's just living. It's part of life. Um, again, it's not a club. Anybody wants to be a part of. So I always highly recommend people watch what they put in their body. Um, you know, be mindful, but I think I certainly have a new appreciation for life and food and. Not doing the bad things that I once was doing. I focus on sleep. I don't know about you, Jan, but I like to get my, I try pretty hard to get about eight hours, at least seven. And if I don't get seven, I am a big giant six foot eight cranky ass baby. Like I do not like it. Hey, which is funny because I sometimes will watch a thing at night to relax. You know, I do a lot of relaxing, relaxing and meditation in the evening to wind down again. That sounds corny, but it helps me with all the running and recovery. It's just, uh, But sometimes I will stay up a little later than I want to and then I get pissed at myself in the morning when I have to wait, you know, it's, it's, yeah, I don't know, I don't know where I was going with that, but I think it's, it's just a funny and interesting journey. If it makes me feel better, I need to play calming music for two hours. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. Cause you would think you survive a stroke and you would think. Cause, cause that's how my mind worked before the stroke. And you would think after the stroke, you wouldn't be that way. But I think so. So you see, you experienced that now. Have you experienced that from day one or were the first couple of years? Not quite that. Okay. So that you've always been that way. Okay. So for the first two years, I wasn't that way, but the last two or three, somewhere in the middle, like it's weird when I started running, it's great because that really propelled me to another level of losing weight. Which was not the intention. I just wanted to do it fun and for health long term and for the MS. Cause running really helped me feel better day to day. So, um, I think I'm so tired from the running that my brain doesn't have a, have that problem as much at night, but I do have that experience sometimes. Whereas like, like the first two years, I was pretty easy going on myself in that sense, but now it's like, I want to do this. I want to do that. And I'm kind of, I feel like I'm almost slipping back into my old ways. I don't know if you ever feel that way. And I have to watch it, at least for myself. Oh, I remember the word masterclass. Ah, yes. Masterclass. But I, until this last time when I was in a breath work masterclass, my brain has been going 150 miles an hour, like it always did. Right. But this time I actually broke through and learned how to make it quiet. Mm-hmm . Learned how to let it just be, and it was. The most amazing thing. Yeah. I think what also helps me whether fortunate or not, so you can see like there's a little redness on my nose. So I now have. I probably don't need it, but I got diagnosed obviously right after my stroke. Unfortunately, after not before with sleep apnea. And I wear my mask religiously because I feel like, I don't know. I don't want to have another stroke. Why not wear the mask? Cause it doesn't really bother me. And I kind of think that knocks me out almost. It's, it's kind of like a white noise machine. Some people don't love it. I honestly love it. And I think I don't love it. Cause I'm like, well, I now feel like if I wear this mask every night, there's no chance I'll have a stroke again. Cause I don't want to go through this again. Probably also why I started running because, you know, I think we're both lucky in the sense because we've met some other survivors that have a multiple strokes and I do not want to be a multiple stroke person. No offense to many out there, like whatever I can do to never have to do this again would be. That's I, that, that is something I've committed to like long term. I, yeah, I will never smoke. I will never drink. I will never do any of that crap ever again. And I, um, I don't know, it helps me get to sleep. So I think it's kind of like my white, white noise machine. And, um, You know something, your stroke was your superpower because it kept you here and straightened your life out. It did. It did. It certainly did. Um, it's funny, right? It's not the way I wanted it. And I, I've said this before too. I would have preferred to just have a stern talking to and figured it out before it was too late. But would you have listened? Uh, Yeah, I might not have, but I always struggle with that too. Cause I'm actually, despite my six foot eight frame, I'm actually a pretty good rule follower and I think if somebody is stern enough with me now, it does take a special level of sternness and it does take a special level of discipline. Like, I think, so to be clear, I love my wife. I think she's amazing. I love my children. I'm not sure I would have listened to my wife. In fact, my stroke happened in the hospital. My wife looked at me and said, I'm having a stroke and I brushed it off. And so did the doctors in the hospital. So I think it depends who it would come from. And I just think if somebody had a stern talking with me, I would have maybe tried to change because I'll go back even further, Jan. So my stroke was December of 2019. Spring of 2019, I actually stopped smoking cigarettes and I switched over to the vape. Now, that's not a big deal, but it is kind of a shift for a smoker. And I actually stopped drinking for about three months cold turkey, but we were moving that summer from Virginia to Florida. And when we got to Florida, I started drinking in the evenings again, and I started smoking again. And I just looked back at the time and I wish. I wish I had never restarted and I'm not even sure why I did. I'm sure it had a lot to do with the stress of moving a family halfway across the country, even though it's only on this coast. But yeah, um, so maybe I would have listened. Maybe I wouldn't have. It's interesting. I struggle with that sometimes, but, uh, either way, I'm glad to not be either of those things anymore, I guess. So. I wouldn't have listened because I don't, I still don't, if somebody says I can't do something, I say, watch me. Yes, me too. And I think that is actually, you know, I know we're coming up on the hour mark here, but I think that is an excellent takeaway. Um, and of course, if you have anything else you want to add, but I do think that's a really important lesson for stroke survivors. I feel that way because I come from a sports background. I love playing sports. Um, again, I'm six foot eight. I don't take no's very well. And when somebody says you can't do something, I say, watch me and I make it happen. And I love that attitude that you have, Jan, because I, not everybody has that attitude. And I think It certainly can hurt us, but when you become a survivor, I think it is, I'm not saying it's the only way, but I think it certainly is a helpful mindset to have, um, at least in my view, uh, I just, I wouldn't know how to do it any other way personally, but I think it's helpful. When it comes to stroke and recovery because it just gives you that Motivation to get up on shit days to kind of push through and to figure things out again Nobody wants to figure this out, but it helps and I don't know what else helps I'm sure there's lots of other things. I'm not thinking about but I think that's a great takeaway Um, is there anything else you want to chat about or talk about or could I close this out today with a mindful meditation? Sure, absolutely. Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot all about that because we were chatting and I knew that and I totally I will tell you though That my favorite phrase is make every day an exceptional day. Yeah, because it's exceptional because you're here. I love that I think that's uh, that's a that's a great is that a particular quote to anybody or is that just a phrase? Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. I feel like I've heard similar, but I think I'm sure we've all heard some like, I don't know. At this point it's 2024. Everybody in the history of the world has made a quote or done a thing and who knows if anything's ever attributed to the right place or time anyway. So, okay. I'll shut up Jan. So you can kind of let us out with the meditation. Okay. We're going to anchor in peace. As we prepare to close, let's take a moment to ground ourselves in mindfulness. Imagine you are standing at the edge of a vast, serene ocean. The air is crisp, the waves are gentle, and the horizon stretches endlessly before you. With each inhale, feel the cool ocean breeze filling your lungs, bringing renewal. With each exhale, let go of any lingering tension sending it out to sea where it can drift far, far away. Now bring to mind a single word that represents how you want to feel peaceful, strong, calm, or any word that speaks to you. As you breathe in, silently repeat that word to yourself. As you exhale, feel it settling deeper into your heart. If your mind wanders, that's okay. Gently bring it back to the rhythm of your breath and your chosen word. Let this moment remind you that no matter how chaotic life may feel, there is always a quiet place within you, like the stillness of the ocean's depths. It's waiting to bring you peace. Take a final deep breath in and hold it for a moment and exhale slowly. When you're ready, return to the space around you. Wiggle your fingers, wiggle your nose, knowing you carry this calm with you wherever you go. Peace and love coming your way and please remember to make every day an exceptional day. Thank you, Jan. That was wonderful. Um, I appreciate that and I will say goodbye to everybody. I'll stop. Hey, I'll hit stop recording and we can chat for a minute after this. So thanks everybody. We'll see you soon.