48. It’s Not Impossible: Reframing Fundraising Through Faith and Formation with Tony Dentman (Soundtracks)

“I was probably the wealthiest person in my family when I chose to go into ministry—then I had to go back and ask my family for money.”

“If God did it in my life, He can do it in yours.”

“If you’re not willing to be faithful, I can’t do much with you. But if you are—I got you.”

In this powerful episode, Tony Dentman of Funding Tribe joins hosts Heather and Andy to reframe the soundtrack of “This is impossible.” Tony shares his journey from inner-city St. Louis to full-time ministry, despite having no wealthy or Christian background. He explains how his organization empowers minority leaders to get fully funded and mobilized for mission. The conversation dives deep into character formation, faith-building, and the systemic lie that fundraising success is tied to privilege. A must-listen for anyone who has ever doubted their calling or resources.

🎯 Key Takeaways

• Fundraising = Formation: It’s not just about hitting goals; it’s about who you become in the journey.
• Reframe Obstacles: Swap “This is impossible because…” for “How can I overcome this?,” and watch your confidence skyrocket.
• Built for the Underconnected: Funding Tribe’s system assumes you lack a Rolodex—and that’s exactly why it works.
• Diversity Is Your Strength: Minority and women leaders bring unique insights for reaching every nation.
• Faithfulness Over Finals: Success is measured by commitment to the process; character wins whether or not you hit your funding target.

🔗 Show Notes & Resources: fundingtribe.org

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Transcript

Heather Winchell: [00:00:00] What if fundraising's, not just about the bottom line. What if it is about who you become and what you believe in the process? And what if the journey is bigger than you and your ministry? 

Andy Brennan: Welcome to season four of, it's not about the money. Join us as we examine elements of ministry fundraising through the unique lens of personal formation.

Let's dive in.

All right. Welcome back to the show, everyone. As a reminder, or if you are just jumping into the season now, we are in the middle of a mini series on. What we are stealing from Christian author, uh, John Acuff called soundtracks, and this is dealing with the dangers of overthinking. Um, and he says, one of the greatest mistakes you can make in life is assuming all your thoughts are true.

So for the next several weeks we'll be looking at [00:01:00] different soundtracks or mindsets or thought patterns that show up in our fundraising. There's a connection between what we think and how we feel and act. Dallas Willard once said, we live at the mercy of our ideas, paying attention to the soundtracks or mental recordings that we play and replay internally matters.

So let's continue to explore these together and do some reframing. In today's episode, we are tackling a popular soundtrack that starts with, this is Impossible because. And then fill in the blank. It is true that there are unique obstacles and challenges that can come up in fundraising. When we start believing that our network or our background, our season of life, or whatever it may be, are more powerful than God's ability to act, we have a problem.

So Heather, would you do the honors of introducing our [00:02:00] guest today? I. 

Heather Winchell: It would be my pleasure, Andy. So we are joined today by Tony Denman of Funding Tribe Foundation, and if you are familiar with the podcast, you know that this name has come up over and over again. We love the work that Funding Tribe is doing.

We have asked him to join us and help us challenge and reframe the story that it isn't possible. Hmm. Tony and his team work to empower minority and women leaders so that they can step into their God-given assignments fully funded. You can find out more@fundingtribe.org and we will definitely be adding that link to our show notes.

So Tony, thank you so much for joining us today. We'd love to start with a bit of backstory on your own experiences in support development and how Funding Tribe came to be. 

Tony Dentman: Yo. Um, thank y'all for having me today. Appreciate, uh, every last one of y'all and I love to just share a little myself. Tony Denman, currently in good old Chicago.

Mm-hmm. On the frozen tundra, um, right now, [00:03:00] but grew up inner city, St. Louis. Um, came to know the Lord on a college campus through a ministry called Campus Outreach. 

Heather Winchell: Woo-hoo. Mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: Went through a couple of summer projects and on these summer projects is where you gotta raise your funds. Mm-hmm. And I can even look back at my story now and I can see how, how God just had a.

A, you know, like he was, he was all in it from day one. I came know the Lord January the first, 2006, and I went to my first missions discipleship project on that May that year. So about like five month later. 

Heather Winchell: Mm. 

Tony Dentman: But on my spring break, my freshman year, I. I sent my letters home. The guy who discipled me led me to the Lord was like, Hey, uh, just send letters out to your family and your friends, and you'll be surprised.

People will be excited about, uh, supporting your mission. I'm like, bro, you, you don't know where I came from. I'm an inner city kid. Uh, mother just filed bankruptcy. Uh, grandma is my number one fan, uh, on social security, uh, cousins, drug dealers. I was like, man, you, you have no clue. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: Um, like, [00:04:00] but I sent my letters out and I trust them.

And I came for that spring break. My grandma, uh, there was a church coming to visit doing some inner city ministry and she got some good connections with some people in the church, and, and she shared my letter. With this guy named Ned Crocker, uh, my mentor to this day. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: And he sat me down, said, Hey, my grandma telling me that you're going on this, this trip and we would love to, uh, support you.

I'm like, what? This is my first time ever meeting a guy. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, but that was like my. Introduction to the support raising, like I shared with my family. Uh, my grandma didn't support me, but she supported me by referring me to one of her friends who was a Christian. Mm-hmm. And the Crocker family, they supported my whole summer project.

I was like, man, this is crazy. Uh, the God has people out there that literally are looking for opportunities to invest in the kingdom of God. 

Heather Winchell: Hmm. 

Tony Dentman: And that summer changed my life. Hmm. The ministry that I do today is still rooted until my first summer project, I learned how to share my faith. I learned how to make a disciple so.

So [00:05:00] that was my freshman year of college. Uh, every year got a raise more funds for different projects and things like that. But, uh, the next big thing where I just felt like I really just showed up where I came on staff of the organization and I'm sitting down, they offered me the job and it's like, Hey Tony, we love for you to, uh, come on staff for campus outreach.

We're trying to build up our, uh, African American pipeline, raise up more leaders, uh, transform the nations, and all that good stuff. Mm-hmm. They gimme the, the vision to come on staff. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: So we're getting in, we get to the end of the conversation. I'm basically in, so like, so how much, how much does it pay?

You know, oh, we allow you to raise about 25,000 a month. And I'm like, oh no. Like, I like spit out my water doing, doing my first job interview, I guess so. And I was thinking like, dude, this, is this a no go? This is, this is, no, I'm one of the first in my family to graduate college. I'm gonna go back to the hood and ask people to, to support me to go on a mission.

I came know the Lord in college, so I didn't have a strong, like Christian [00:06:00] base, you know? So, 

Heather Winchell: yeah. 

Tony Dentman: Um, but I prayed, I fast, I seek the Lord and got some good wise council. I mean, and within four months I was fully funded, you know? Wow. So, and I had, I remember sitting in an orientation, I was like, Hey, put down your a hundred names on your list.

And, and these are people gonna reach out. So make sure you include the doctors, make sure you include the lawyers, make sure you include, I'm like, man, I ain't got no lawyer. They, I go, I go to the free clinic, you know, down the street at this church, you know? Yeah. So, um, but God, he worked mildly through my support through that, that experience.

So, yeah. I was 15, 16 years ago when I got fully funded to be a full-time staff. But, so yeah, that's kind of, kind of my journey. I started organization about six years ago called Funding Drive and just taking what God has taught me throughout the years to make it more formal, make it more transferable, um, build some systems to help people like me who came into the support Reagan [00:07:00] world, but limited, uh, Christian connections and mm-hmm.

Didn't come from a, a wealthy background. To get fully funded. So yeah. Um, yeah, that's, that's how I got here today. 

Heather Winchell: Very cool. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I just, man, what gratitude I have for your grandmother, 

Tony Dentman: right? 

Heather Winchell: Yeah, 

Tony Dentman: yeah. She was, she's the number one fan, I think my number one supporter. So, um, she was, she was faithful.

And, and, and that's the beauty of it. And I know you guys haven't asked it. It made me understand the importance of being faithful to just start the process and then the importance of, man, you just never know who's gonna come on your team. It's, it's like a domino effect that you're just not sure where the ball is gonna Well, where the dominoes are gonna fall.

Yeah. Because of the referrals are everything, you know? Yeah. And the relationships that you get out of it from people you didn't know. Like as I say, Ned Crocker and the Crocker family were still connected. And that was 20 years ago. Yeah. 

Heather Winchell: Wow. So very cool. 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. [00:08:00] Tony's voice is so important to have because I can't tell you how many people, uh, quite often that come from not, maybe not exactly the same background, but have the same concerns.

Like, I don't, I don't have, uh, I don't come from a Christian background or I'm a new believer, or, um. The people around me are, aren't doctors or lawyers or whatever. Um, so this is a, this is such an important thing to speak to. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah, absolutely. It is. So Tony, I really appreciate the emphasis that you've created around the idea of connection or tribe as defined by Seth Godin.

A tribe is a group of people connected to one another, connected to a leader, and connected to an idea. How are your people that are part of your tribe connected to each other? Who is the leader and what is the idea that you're connecting your clients to? 

Tony Dentman: Yeah, so it's the funny tribe is, is twofold. So that even the vision between us is like, Hey, we're trying [00:09:00] to build a trap of missionaries that we're connected to, to, to reach the nation for Christ.

So a lot of people get into man diversity and they're just so infatuated with just more diversity. I'm just more effectuated the fact that man, God say, uh, reach all the nations and it's just a diverse place out there. Hmm. And so we're, we believe that minorities play a crucial role in reaching the nations for Christ.

We're just building a tribe of people. We coach people, we train people that we equip to get to the nation. So, so that's the tribe. I wouldn't say I'm a leader. Maybe we'll say the organization is a leader that mm-hmm. That my, my primary calling that I understand from the Lord is to, to reach college students for Christ.

I I say that all the time that that is. I know I'm supposed to do that, but my secondary calling this man, I wanna help mobilize missionaries. Mm. So, and that's where we get into it. So, and a lot of people believe the lies, hey minorities, that they can't get fully funded. I don't believe that. Like, I believe [00:10:00] it's possible.

I experienced it, you know, like God did it in me and I've seen 'em do it in hundreds. So, so yeah. So the first tribe is the tribe that we, we want to. We wanna reach the nations through minority leaders, right? That's, that's that right there. And then the second level is that when we're coaching them to build their tribe, and they're the leader of their tribe and things like this, is that, man, we're just gathering people that God is already working in their hearts to get on board with the mission that he put on your heart.

So, um, that, that's what it is. So, and we call 'em, we got tribe donors where people come together and they're helping gather more people to be a part of accomplishing this mission. So it's, it's twofold. Funding tribes land. We're trying to get a, a tribe of, of leaders to impact the world and help mobilize them and then train them up to build their own tribe to help people 

Andy Brennan: get on board with the mission of God has put on their heart.

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Andy Brennan: And so are most people coming to you for help with funding Tribe? Are they coming from a similar background or just from a whole range of, [00:11:00] of experiences? Yeah. Man, we got, we got 

Tony Dentman: a little bit of everything, um, from Yeah, we, we got everything. I coach people and all over the world, to be honest.

Mm-hmm. Um, every, every, anybody, so, I mean, we, we coach white people. We coach black people, we coach people from, from Africa, from like, and, and we say minority. I emphasize the fact that, hey, we coach everybody and they mama. Mm-hmm. Like if you, if you need help, like I, I don't care where you come from, you can come from the richest family in the world and, and, and you're just scared to raise on, we got a solution for you.

Mm-hmm. Because we built the system on the worst case scenarios, like mm-hmm. We built the system on people who don't have the connections. We built a system on people who are not surrounded by Christian. We, so, so everybody wins. So that's, that's just our emphasis. But we coach everybody and they mama, that's how.

Yeah. But we want, we want it to be a place where it's like, Hey, if you're, if you're scared to support race, if you think the odds are against you [00:12:00] and you're willing to be faithful, send 'em my way. Mm-hmm. We got 'em. Yeah. That's, that's all of our coaches. That's, that's where they come from. Mm-hmm. 

Andy Brennan: The DNA of our organization.

That seems to set you guys apart. How else would you say that you guys are different from other kind of fundraising curriculums? Well, 

Tony Dentman: that 

Andy Brennan: who we draw 

Tony Dentman: in. Makes us a little different. But then because of that, our cohorts are full of people like that. So, um, we got people, uh, from India that, that live in New York.

We got people from south side of Chicago and got people from Texas that, that, that speak Spanish. You know, like we we're bringing in people to saying, Hey. If you come to our cohort, more than likely you won't be the only person with these same struggles. Like it's, it's pretty much guaranteed. There's gonna be a group of Hispanics, there's gonna be a group of, uh, Asian, there's gonna be some African Americans, and there's gonna be people like you that are being safe with this process.

And you can look, uh, left and you can look right [00:13:00] and you say, man, if God is providing and they life, that, that, he definitely apply to mines. You know, one, one thing that I had going against me when I went to orientation, uh, years ago. That I was pretty much the, the only minority in my, my class and such you.

Mm-hmm. And I mean, from, from my type of background that, that would be it. But with fun to drive you that don't exist. Yeah. That like, that don't exist. Right. And, and God is moving and you can be like, man, I want that too. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: You can't, you can't come up. Excuse like he or he grew up. Manhattan, New York, and his daddy was a pastor and they was like the top evangelical family.

So they, it was easy for them. Raise fun. So, but I'm an inner city kid and I didn't grow up in front. Like, you can't say that with us, you know, you know, everybody's like you in a sense, so. Mm-hmm. So I think that it erases a lie. Um, so I think that separates us a lot. Mm-hmm. How we're [00:14:00] big on community. We're big on, yeah.

We gotta process and I mean. And that may be true for other fundraising organizations out there, but we have our law, we have our process, we have our way, and we track you and hold you accountable to doing it our way. Mm. And, and, and our way is. I, I tell people to this day, man, the Steve Shadrachs, the, the Scott Morriss, the, like the the gurus Yeah.

Of today in the fundraise world. I just read they stuff and, and applied it, you know? Yeah. And made, made a Tony system. Yeah. That's, that's all, that's the only difference. Yeah. So, so we have a win. We hold you accountable, um, 

Heather Winchell: and 

Tony Dentman: if you want to get fully funded, we can get you fully funded. That's, it comes down to that.

We tell people, Hey, do not let our desire to get. Your desire be down here. Yeah. Because the in between is gonna be tension, but if you wanna get fully funded and we're below you, we're gonna push you 

Heather Winchell: to 

Tony Dentman: success. Yeah. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Over the years, what I've heard [00:15:00] that people really appreciate about Funding Tribe is, like you said, the community, the cohort based learning and applying, and then also the accountability.

How helpful it is to be held accountable and to be challenged, um mm-hmm. And to see growth in that way. So that's, that's really great. 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. Well, I love that. I love the accountability. I love the community emphasis and focus on the whole cohort. So to what extent are, is information about how somebody else in the cohort is doing in their, their progress.

To what extent is that shared amongst the group? Like do you, do I know if we're, if Heather and I in the same group, do I know her progress? Do I know what she's doing? Yep. 

Tony Dentman: Um, so we got leaderboards. Um, so. You'll see based off of last week's progress, based off of how many calls have been made by such and such, and we come together on a weekly basis and I'm giving direction and we, it's just a real, real talk time.

Mm-hmm. Like, hey, hey, hey Bob. Like man, [00:16:00] great job. You made a hundred calls this week. Congratulations. Um, a Tony, on the other hand, the 25 calls you made this week, it's not gonna get you fully funded. Like it just mm-hmm. Uh, like you're with me because you gotta make a lot of calls, you know? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Like if you, like, if you didn't have to make a lot of calls, they wouldn't even send you the funding drive, you know? Um, so, so yeah, you see that on a weekly basis and we, we measure faithfulness to the process. And, and if you're doing that, we tell people. Best case scenario, you get fully funded and your character grow.

Mm. Worst case scenario, your character grow and that's you, you good. The goat like, like mm-hmm. Uh, so, so we're, we're measuring the process on your faithfulness, the task that you're doing. Yeah. Uh, more than anything. And you know exactly on what, what you're supposed to do. Yeah. Um, and. Or you gonna do it?

So, yeah. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. We got 

Tony Dentman: like a little week weekly compass is what we call it. So there's certain things that everybody's supposed to do. Mm-hmm. And they grade themselves on a weekly basis too, so, [00:17:00] okay. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah. To what you just said around, you know, either way your character is going to grow. Something that Andy and I feel really passionately about is that.

The reality, the season, the, the life support based living, it's formational. It forms us and it does build character. And that's, that's really a gift of the process. And so, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Either way, God is up to that work. Well, 

Andy Brennan: and I just, I love the idea of, of the transparency within the group.

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Andy Brennan: Um, I've actually floated that around to different people in my sphere and even to some of my, my clients, quote unquote. Um. And the pushback I always get is, well, I, I would struggle with comparison. I'm, I'm just comparing myself to other people. 

Heather Winchell: Hmm. 

Andy Brennan: So how do you, how do you frame it, Tony? So it's not, it doesn't lead them down like an unhealthy path of comparison, but just get them like a, like a holy competitiveness 

Heather Winchell: or like gamification.

Gamification 

Andy Brennan: or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Tony Dentman: I, we just [00:18:00] say at the fund we have a standard and, and our standard. Uh, it's this, right? Like you gotta come up with 500 names. Like you can't even start the process of reaching out to people until you do that like five and, and everybody gotta do it. It doesn't matter where you came from.

Like, it, it doesn't matter. Like, you can come to this like, oh man. Um, I didn't come from a wealthy environment. That's cool. But there still was people there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So write down the names. We're not talking about money right now, we're just talking about names. Like do it. Um, if it's gonna take you a week, it's gonna take you two weeks.

How long? Uh, so, so we just have a standard and, and you're really, you're competing against the standard. Like, and, and I tell them from day one. Man, the standard is the standard. However, I'm expecting you to give 120%. So, uh, I'm not guy, I'm not even that smart. I tell 'em all the time that, that most of the time when I'm in a breakout room or even I'm on a Zoom call, I'm coach somebody.

My IQ is probably the lowest. Like, [00:19:00] so, so you need to, you need to do a little bit more than what this, this guy who's not that smart telling you what to do because you want this more, you know? Mm-hmm. Your backup plan is another 20% of what Tony told you to do. So we just focus on, hey, this is. What you're supposed to be doing, and if you do this, you're gonna be okay.

Forget about the other people. Uh, you just got other people proven it's possible to be done. That's probably the emphasis, the benefit. So, um, I can see if it was, uh, coworkers like, Hey, who makes the most calls and cool like that. But if the call was 70 calls this week, did you do it or did you not do it?

And the person made a hundred calls just proved it was possible Yeah. To do up and beyond. Mm-hmm. You know, so I think that that helps a little bit. But yes, you got people who's gonna wrestle with, um, COism and things like that. Um, yeah, that's, that's, that's just the, the world we live in. Yeah. At the end of the day, yeah.

It's worth it. It's worth it. Compare yourself to the standard is, is my, my emphasis on. Mm-hmm. Um, 

Heather Winchell: yeah, that's helpful. So yeah, and like we said, this, [00:20:00] the soundtrack that we're speaking specifically to today is just this soundtrack that for whatever reason it isn't possible. And I think we probably all hit moments where we, where we doubt or we think, oh gosh, is this possible?

I mean, I even remember in my own. Initial journey, um, from the time that I was told like, Hey, this is what, what it's going to take and hey, this is when you're supposed to leave. There just wasn't a lot of time and I remember thinking, gosh, I don't know. Is this possible? Mm-hmm. Is it possible for this to happen?

Right. Um, but then the Lord like did his thing, which he does. Yes. Which is amazing. I was able to work through those thoughts, but I'm curious if you've ever wrestled through that thought, like, have you ever had your own, is this possible or This doesn't seem possible Moment. 

Tony Dentman: I mean, all the time. All the time.

I, I literally just left a meeting, uh, today. Today I was our ministry budget with all of our staff. I'm, I'm riding back home before the podcast. Like, is it possible, like we, we gotta raise, we gotta raise another hundred thousand dollars. Like, is it [00:21:00] another, like, oh my gosh, ano, is it, is it possible? Um, so yes.

I mean, at some point all I had to do was raise this $25,000 when I first came on staff. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like, like that, that was like, is this possible? 

Heather Winchell: Right. 

Tony Dentman: Uh, man, I'm, I'm raising. Four, eight people at a time now, you know what I'm saying? I'm, I'm raising that four, eight people now. I'm raising, I'm raising fund for two organizations now.

I'm, I mean, not like, as, as the possible become possible, there's another impossible task that comes along and it just continue to go. So, so, yes. But if I would've stopped at first go round, it was like, it's 20,025. Stopped. The only thing I would've missed out is that muscle that has grown, 

Heather Winchell: um, 

Tony Dentman: over the last 16, 20 years.

16 full-time staff, 20 years fundraising. I got a muscle that's saying, man, this is gonna be [00:22:00] hard, but based off of the track record, man, it's possible. You know? Mm-hmm. Like, like God, he can do it. God can do it. You know? So, um. So, so yes, I'm, I'm, I'm faced with it right now. Uh, and I'm pretty sure a year from now yeah, I'll be faced with, again, with another thing that God put on my plate that, that saying, will you trust me?

Yeah. I. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: So, 

Heather Winchell: yeah. And it strikes me that it's probably a pretty good indicator if you are always coming up on that, because that just means that God is continuing to grow your awareness and your like dependence on him. Mm-hmm. I mean, goodness, I don't actually wanna hit a point in life where I'm not faced with something Yes.

That I don't have to depend on God for. Right. You know, 

Andy Brennan: it reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my, um, my clients years and years and years ago, one of my first ones, and she commented. Maybe after we were, we'd been working together for several months and she, she said, I think every Christian should have to fundraise at some point in their lives.

And it goes [00:23:00] back to what you just said, like that you, you have a faith muscle. I. Um, and if you don't use it, it tends to, I think it tends to atrophy. 

Heather Winchell: Hmm. 

Andy Brennan: Right. So, yeah. I love that there's layers of impossibility that just kind of keeps challenging our faith. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Andy Brennan: And that's just a, that's a beautiful design.

Heather Winchell: Hmm. Yeah. 

Andy Brennan: Amen. That, so what are some of the, the most common doubts or insecurities that come across you, uh, come across your coaching? Yeah, I mean, they're, they're 

Tony Dentman: the standard. I don't know enough people or so, I mean, you get that out the gates. Um, I didn't, I didn't really grow up in a, in a Christian environment.

Heather Winchell: Um, 

Tony Dentman: so I'm not connected to Christian people. Um, man, I'm, I'm really not good at asking, um, like, man, well, people actually like, am I worthy enough for people to give their funds to, mm 

Heather Winchell: [00:24:00] mm Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: So, I mean the, the standard questions and that we all wrestle with, like, I mean, is God gonna provide, to be honest, I, I think that's, that's under all of them.

Like will he really do it? Um, yeah. So yeah, those are some of the main ones. And do, do I have what it takes to actually get fully funded? So, because it is not, it's not just. You gotta build some real disciplines. Yeah. You gotta, you gotta be persuasive, you gotta, I mean, it's, it's literally building a small little business that's, I tell people the beauty of it.

Mm-hmm. You're an entrepreneur for real. Yeah. If you become a, a fundraiser. Yep. So. Like, can't I do it? Uh, so yeah. You're you're exposed more than 

Andy Brennan: anything. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Andy Brennan: And are the people that you're working with, I mean, are, are, do they have jobs? Are they students are, I mean, I, I assume they have other things going on.

They can't fundraise a hundred percent of the time. I. I mean, there's, there's a range. So 

Tony Dentman: we, we [00:25:00] have rapidly decreased, uh, students. I'm not a fan of coaching students. Um, so, uh, it's just, just when they graduate, send outta my way, but Okay. It just, it just creates too many, um, complications. But yeah. But yeah, people working part-time jobs, full-time jobs, um, teachers.

Like we got, I mean, pastors, there's people doing ministry already. That's 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: That's so, so you're right. Most people don't come into us like, Hey, I got 40 hours to give to it. Yeah. But I asked them for 20, can you gimme 20 hours? Um, and give, gimme 20 hours a week and, and I'll get you fully funded in, in four to five months.

Like just gimme 20. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. Um, 

Tony Dentman: and, and that's. Like between seven to eight, let's pray, let's do some admin lunch at clock out from, uh, Chick-fil-A and, and make some calls. Mm-hmm. 

Heather Winchell: And then 

Tony Dentman: on your way home from the accounting firm, make some calls from five to seven. That right there, if you do that seven days a week, that's 21 hours.

If you can gimme three hours a day, we'll [00:26:00] get a job done. Hmm. So, so that's kind of, that's kind of my number that I feel like anybody can do. 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: But it is. 

Andy Brennan: It is a little extra. So let, let's circle back to just one thing you said. You said one of the common obstacles is, am I worthy enough for this? What do you say when they bring up that obstacle?

Tony Dentman: I mean, I, one, when, when we struck process, we, we got like this vision assessment and a calling assessment and, and we, because I ran into that so much. We got an article that they have to work through, and then they fill out this survey and they jot down the answers to it. We, you just gotta go back to the word of God.

Heather Winchell: Like 

Tony Dentman: you gotta, you're made in the image of the God of a universe. So the question is, is he worthy enough there? Because you're making this image, you know, like it's all back to God. Uh, you're, you're his workmanship created in Christ Jesus. So it's like this, this is a, this is a hyn thing and not a youth thing.

So, [00:27:00] so really just digging into. The, the biblical truth of, of who you are in Christ and who you're created to be. And he called you for a Ute mission that, that he is the Lord of the harvest. So just pointing everything back to the, to him and get our eyes off ourself. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: Fix our eyes on the or and perfect of faith instead of our little insecure self, um, most of the time.

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: So, yeah, I mean, just going back to. To God's word. I mean the, the real foundation. Yeah. Because we, we drift. Yeah, we drift. We still believe in so many other things, so we do. Yeah. 

Heather Winchell: It's really incredible given how clear God's word speaks to that, how much noise can get in our own minds and how like broken and distorted our view of ourselves in light of how we've been created can be.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm wondering what are some other, like, for lack of a better word, mantras of encouragement that you circle back to or, um. I think the way Andy might ask is drumbeats of healthy thinking. Mm-hmm. That you continue to hammer. 

Tony Dentman: Yeah. Um, so I tell [00:28:00] people over and over and over, we're just trying to get a meeting.

Like, like, and this meeting is not even about money. So I say over and over and over, our goal is to sit down with a person, Christian, non-Christian, poor, uh, rich, black, white. It doesn't matter. Like we wanna sit down with a person and tell them what God has done in our life in the past, and what we're trusting God to do in our future.

That's, that's what our all we wanna do, is just sit down and just tell people and testify about the goodness of God in the past and in the future. And we're just trying to find out man. Who are the people out that God is working with this story? That's that's all. That right there erased like, oh man, uh, this person is not a, not a believer.

So I shouldn't be with Nope. You are just gonna tell her what guy done in the past, in the future. That's a perfect person to talk to. Uh, this person right here just, just lost their job last week. No, that's a perfect person to go talk to. Tell her what guy has been doing in your life and what do you trust gotta do with future to inspire them and encourage them.

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: Um, this person is, hasn't [00:29:00] re so. That right there is just, it's just something we'll just say over and over. We're just trying to sit down with an individual and tell him what guy has done and what we're trusting God to do, um, and really believe that. So, um, I think, I think that's, that's one thing you'll hear me say over and over and over and over.

And then this is not a mantra, but it's my story. And when you look in my life and you look at. Um, the environment I came from, um, if he could do it in my life, he could do it in yours. Mm-hmm. So like when I, when I, when I looked at my, my list, I had my cousin that was a drug dealer on my list and he was like, number one because he was the wealthiest dude.

I knew at the time I had, I had my grandma on my list. That hasn't worked the job since I, since I've been alive. And I was You. 22 years old at that, that point. Uh, my mother, number three on my list loved me more than anybody. Just filed bankruptcy for the second time. Um, um, like I grew, I was probably the most, the [00:30:00] wealthiest person in my family when I chose to go into ministry.

Like I had a county gig gr, I mean a county gig. Coming outta college, I was probably the wealthiest person in my family and I was going back to ask my family to give me money, you know? Yeah. Um. If God can can do it in my life. Of course he can do it in your life. Like of course, like, and so I think that's kind of, I'm kind of just, man, I'm just, I'm just a, a lot testimony that God will provide 

Andy Brennan: and he's been, he's been very faithful.

How, I'm curious to know how they, how your family responded. When you first introduced this idea, 

Tony Dentman: con, confused. Would, confused, would probably be the, uh, the best way to put it. Okay. You know, it, it just, it still, they, they, my parents, like my family still don't know what I do. They, they say, Hey, all we know is Tony, walk with the Lord and he's blessed.

Like that. That's, that's all we, that's enough. Well, is, is he a pastor up in Chicago? Is he a, uh, campus manager? Is he a fundraiser? We had no clue what this man really, really [00:31:00] does, but God provides for him and um, and he is not choosing the standard, uh, corporate route. Yeah. But, uh, but God is taking care of him.

So I think that that was it. But I mean, some of the first, my pastor, my uncle and my football coach was the first three support meetings I. And these are people who, who loved me, cared about me and molded me to be the man I was at that point. And, and I was like, I was beat down. Mm-hmm. I was, I I, I, I could tell people those support meetings destroyed me.

Those my first three, um, and. They was not excited about the fact that I was going on down with some white evangelical organization. They wasn't excited about me getting a degree and going to beg people for money. They wasn't excited about the fact that I kind of, I kind of pissed away they investment in my life by not even using my degree.

You know? Yeah. Like those was hard conversations I had early on, and I mean, they, [00:32:00] they took me, took me pretty low. Uh, yeah. But that's. I still remember sitting in the car. I was sitting in the car outside of my house and, and meeting with the Lord, and, and he pulled me up, you know, so, so, so it wasn't bad. I mean, it, it was foundational for me today.

So it's a lot of people that wasn't on board with Tony Diman choosing to go into full-time ministry. Raising funds, you know, raising, because people get paid to do this stuff too, you know, so. Right. Yeah. I chose the fundraising route, so, 

Heather Winchell: yeah. Yeah. Did you have, kind of in contrast to that, what did it look like for you to have community around you that was supportive and that was encouraging and affirming this call for you?

Tony Dentman: Yeah, I mean, community is everything at the end of the day. I mean, so I mean people, and that, that's why we set up our cohorts that way because of. It was a friend that was raising support that's going through the same thing that got used to, to pull me out of it, you know, like, 

Heather Winchell: yeah. 

Tony Dentman: Um, and, and then [00:33:00] even I tell people to this day, my.

My peers that was on board, uh, with the same organization. I'm on board. I look back early on, they start supporting me. I mean, everybody came over with $25 a month. Yeah. You know, like 15 a month. But I had 10, 15 people from the organization, young. Uh, men and women, they got on board and, and supported me, you know, so, um, and, and they, it helped me buy in that, that weren't in this together.

Uh, and I think this even plays a role in why I'm doing this now, because I had people early on that supported me and I'm, I want to coach support equipment, even fun other individuals because of, I mean, they loved me early on. Yeah. So, 

Andy Brennan: yeah. Great question. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Andy Brennan: Well, yeah, I, I love that. Um, one, one of the mantras that you're.

You're, you're pounding into people and to yourself is that it's not just about what's gonna get you money in the door. We have to widen that filter and say, [00:34:00] is this person just somebody that I can meet with and, and talk to you? Like we just have to, we have to widen that a little bit. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. That's great.

Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: And, and, and even, uh, as you even talked a little bit about those mantras and a couple of them that, that I'm thinking about right now at the moment is man. We, we don't beg for money. Hmm. I we're not begging for money, but we will beg for referrals. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because the, because we beg for referrals because man, God has his people out there that I want to connect with and to aspire and to encourage them to do the work that God.

So I'll begging for referrals. Like, just tell me one more person. I can go tell this story too. Um, no excuses. Alright. That's another thing that people will hear me say over, man. Stop making up excuses. Um, you chose to fundraise. I tell people that all the time. You can, most, most titles in ministry or wherever you are in the world, there's somebody getting paid to [00:35:00] actually do it.

There's campus ministers being paid to be the campus minister. There's chaplains at universities, there's chap, like there's people getting paid to do this. So you chose this path, you didn't even apply to get paid to do it. You know, so no excuses, like, like you chose this path, let's, let's, let's show up.

Let's be all in and let's be faithful to what God has, has given us in front of. So, um, and then, um, another one, and, and this, this is not really towards the, the lies. And the doubts. We, but we, we track everything. Uh, you track everything. Track everything. Because I tell people that our support tracking document is gonna be our Ebenezer when we look back and say, man, look what God was doing in my life.

Uh, we're tracking everything. It, it's because I, I wanna doing my doing we, one of my support rates. I wanna see the people I met with, the people didn't call, I mean, didn't pick up when I called. And I would look back on this 10 years, and I was like, that's incredible. Mm. Yeah. So those are a [00:36:00] few things, and money isn't our, uh, the number one goal isn't money.

The number one goal isn't money. Yeah. The number one goal is money. It's just not about money. Like, God don't need money. Yeah. Um, I don't even need money. I tell, I tell people, most of the people I'm coaching all got, they, all the people I coach at this point got a college degree. 

Heather Winchell: Mm. 

Tony Dentman: Like, you don't need, you don't need to go out and raise support.

You got a college degree. You can go get a job that actually probably pay you more than what you're raising. Mm-hmm. So this, this is not a money issue at all. This, this is. Calling. This is a, yeah, a calling in a, in a spiritual like discipline that we're just trying to get stronger and stronger because you don't need money.

You what I'm saying? Yeah. You can go get a job tomorrow and get paid more. So let's not focus on money, because people do get so focused on money. It's not about money at all. Um, you go, yeah, go fill out 25 applications by the end of the week. You'll have a job interview. It's support me at the end of the day, but they gonna pay your whole salary.

You know, so. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. So, yeah. 

Andy Brennan: Those, those are few. Yeah. Um. [00:37:00] I, I love the emphasis on the, on the tracking tool and like the, the value that that brings to help you actually lead you to worship. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah, at the end 

Andy Brennan: of the day, so I think, I think we're gonna name rename our tracking tool to the Ebenezer. 

Heather Winchell: The Ebenezer.

Andy Brennan: That's great. That's a good one for real. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. I also really appreciate what you were saying about just challenging people that like, hey you, you're choosing to like be in a position where you raise your support. I think that ownership is actually really good 'cause it's like, yeah, there are other opportunities, but the one God called you to the one you feel conviction for.

Is raising sport. So you have every reason to believe that God is there with you in that. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that's really good. 

Tony Dentman: That's so true. 'cause it, when it comes down to it, I, I try to point everybody back to God, like, did he call you to it? Yes or no? Like yes or no. 'cause of you being a little victim right now, it's not like that, that doesn't fit into this equation.

If. We, we tried to destroy that victim mentality. You're [00:38:00] victorious, especially if he called you to it. He gonna provide, seek first his kingdom's rights and all things to be given to you. Like, does this apply to you? Like if it do, then let's get to work. 

Heather Winchell: Um, 

Tony Dentman: so, so, yeah, I think you're right. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. So Tony, what's at stake if people don't challenge these beliefs or if they, you know, maybe they're like working the plan, they're like doing what they need to be doing, but in internally they're just kind of like stuck in some of these soundtracks.

How have you seen that sideline someone I. 

Tony Dentman: Yeah. I mean, the, the first thing that comes to my mind and I tell people, and, you know, somebody gonna cancel me, they probably stopped listening. Y'all laughing when I say what I say. But, um, yeah, I should have did more research and invited me on, I guess. Yeah. But, um, but the, the number one thing as a, as a African American guy, an inner city kid, grew up in the, in the hood of St.

Louis. Um, the odds were set against me to be successful in support raising. [00:39:00] To this day, I, I, I, I'm the, I'm the top, top five percenters in support rates. Like, I, I really love it. I wrote two thesis on support rates. I'm Finn to finish my doc. Like I love the support rate stuff. Mm-hmm. But if God didn't send me on that journey right there.

My walk with God would not be what it is today. Mm. Like it, it would not be. Um, and, and sometimes when I'm sitting down with somebody that comes from a, a, a less fortunate background in the support raising world, and they, they're whining and crying about somebody who came from a fortunate, like I'm just saying, your, your community is wealthy and Christian and all that good stuff, and they're whining like, man, I wish I had that man.

Why don't I got the person who grows up in like the super Christian wealthy background that only gotta make 10 phone calls. Compared to the person who grew up in a community where you gotta, you gotta make a thousand phone calls. Mm. When you play that out. The person who makes the thousand phone calls is just gonna end up closer to Jesus.[00:40:00] 

Like literally, because they, the opportunities to, to run to Jesus just more. That's the thought. And, and I just got a lot of opportunity to run to Jesus. Like I got some stories where I got destroyed and support me, and the only person that can comfort me was God himself. You know, like I just that, I just have to have a lot of those God conversation come to Jesus moments.

So what are you gonna miss out? You're gonna miss out on getting close to God, man. Yeah. Uh, and being for the American support raisers. And we don't got a lot of these opportunities. Mm. Like even me blessing my food is really just acknowledging God thank you. Like, you know, it's, I'm not really blessed, like blessing my food.

I'm so, I mean, I don't even, there's people in the world when they bless their food. They're getting so much closer to Jesus. Mm. Thank you so much for providing, like, we didn't even have this yet. You brought it right when we needed it, because if you didn't, I'll be dead. Like, I haven't prayed that. Right, right.

In my whole life. You know? So, um, I think support raising creates a, a unique opportunity to get close to Jesus. Uh, so if you say no and you, [00:41:00] you punk out or become a victim, you're missing out on Jesus. Um, I think that's the, the. Of the relationships that I have today, I got, I got men and women that. They got in trenches with me.

Like they, they locked on, they really did hold the rope when I went into the, well, yeah. They, they were really, I got a text message morning before I wake up and somebody really praying for me and sent me the prayer. It's like, uh, I, I don't get that. If I chose to become an accountant, that was my undergrad, if I chose to become an accountant.

Yeah. Amen. And, and even did really good in my firm, and I don't, I don't have a need for other people, for real, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I, I got my white picket fans and um, I got a good income coming in. I don't, I don't need to really fellowship with my brothers and sisters. Uh, so right now.

Uh, it just created some relationships I never would have, man. Mm. I got some, I got some country white dudes that, that love me to the moon and back like that. I, [00:42:00] I wouldn't have, like, I'm being real, I wouldn't even had a need for them in my life. But somehow I got referred to them and I. Man, we became, we became super close.

And it wasn't about money. It's just a dude that's serious about the things that God, and I'm serious about the things of God, and we just got yoked together because man, we love Jesus. So, so I think those are the two things, your relationship, God and your relationship with your brothers and sisters. So, 

Heather Winchell: yeah.

And 

Tony Dentman: God say, love him and love your neighbors. So it's kind of like the best opportunity you get, you know? So, so, yeah. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting because I think. We are meant to be people growing immaturity and to be capable, yet always becoming more dependent on God and more dependent on other people.

Right? And so I just think that's this, this tension that we hold and you, you can't build dependence without need, right? So I think to what you were speaking to in your first example of someone that has a lot of connections, maybe the, the money comes in really [00:43:00] easily or something like that. Is there a, a felt sense of need?

Is there that ability to build dependence on God for that need versus someone like you said, who they are dependent on God for their food? So when they bless it, it's, it's like, it's actually depending on him for a need that he's met versus just kind of rot. Mm-hmm. Blessing your food before you eat it, because it's always available.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, yeah, dependence is such a. A key thing. It is. Yeah, it is. 

Andy Brennan: And because, I mean, this was, this was a fantastic just visual image as, as Tony's talking, um, I. This is a picture of the body of Christ. This is what, this is, what the body of Christ is supposed to look like, like crossing, crossing boundaries and, and reaching into all these other spheres.

Um, that doesn't happen without, without fundraising. Um, it pushes us to community. It gives [00:44:00] us, it, it amplifies like the prayers of the saints in our lives. Uh, I, I've talked to people often and said, I, when I was on the field. There were times when I was brought up short and just thought, wow, it feels like people are praying for us right now.

Um, so there's, there's something powerful about, I mean, and I'm, I, I miss it. I mean, my mom prays for me, but, um, to have like 50, a hundred, 300 people praying for you all at once, Hmm. That's powerful. And that's what you, you, you sacrifice. You don't get that if you're not on support. Mm. If you're not doing ministry, it's 

Heather Winchell: very different.

Andy Brennan: Yeah. And also like you like. Yeah. The, the, the person who comes from a good background, they're mobilizing maybe 10 people to the field. Uh, but Tony's mobilizing a thousand people to the field through his work to ministry, so it's powerful. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah. I.

Andy Brennan: So we'd love to, to wrap up, thanks again, Tony, with some [00:45:00] encouragement for our listeners. How have you seen God show up and flip the script when someone thought it wasn't possible? What are some examples of that? Yeah. Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: I mean, I, I share my story, um, just off the top, sorry. And you hear me say over just where I started and where I'm today.

I mean, yeah, that, that's, it's just evident. But everybody that goes through the support raising process would tell you they all got that. They all got the moment where like he did it. He provided, he is faithful. So, uh, man, even if you just listen to this and you, and you're wrestling with. Can he do it? Um, yes.

I'm telling you. Yes. He, he doing it. He's doing it the beginning of the time, you know? Mm-hmm. He, he's gonna do it. Um, it's just, will you be, will you be faithful enough to show up and be present with him and allow him to do it at his time? That that what it [00:46:00] comes down to it. So, um, so story after story, I mean.

I mean, I'm flooded with, with too many stories. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. I don't 

Tony Dentman: know. I don't, I'm, I'm genuine, like I'm trying of what a story where it didn't happen, you know? I know of an individual saying, I was so faithful to this man. I, I really did seek God. And I do know he called me to it and they didn't get fully funded.

Like, I, I don't, I'm being real. Yeah. If you got a find us own funny tribe, um, on org, come over my way. I'll coach you and, um. I, I just need to find out if it's true, like I gotta track it. That's gonna measure your faithfulness. And then if you don't get fully funded, then, then I'll be like, I, I'll be talking about you on another podcast.

For the exception of somebody who wasn't faithful to God, that that was faithful to the mission and didn't get fully funded. Um, so yeah, that's, that's kind of Okay. 

Andy Brennan: I can't think of stories. Okay. So a final word then for our listeners as they persevere in support based ministry. And then I would [00:47:00] also ask you just to layer in like.

What is the value from your point of view in having people from minority quote unquote backgrounds on the field? What, what's, what's so important about having their voices on the field? I. Yeah. Um, I, I'm 

Tony Dentman: think of, I think of the re places that, I mean, if, if, if there's, there's multiple of, but if we, as, I'm just only speaking of Americans at this point.

I can't speak for others, uh, American Commissioners, if we're just saying, Hey, we want to be faithful to the great commission and reaching the nation for Christ. When you look at how diverse the world is, you need a diverse group of people. And we got, we got that at home. Yeah. Like we have a diverse, um, sending, um, pipeline.

Andy Brennan: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: So it makes sense to send, uh, people based on that. I went to Africa. I was on a mission trip, uh, South Africa to be more specific. And I was in bible study with a group of guys, and it was the first time that I, I felt this probably, [00:48:00] but color of my skin. Played a role in speeding up the process for this person to understand the gospel.

Mm. And that was in South Africa. Like man, white people came, they gave us the Bible and took our land. You know, I'm saying that what they felt when it came to Christianity. 

Andy Brennan: Yeah. 

Tony Dentman: But a black dude, he's like, you really believe this? Like, like you really like Yes. I'm telling you I believe this. Well, all my heart, you know, and it fast forward the process.

Mm-hmm. Just because the color of my skin. Yeah. Literally, if I was, if I was white and I said the. I wouldn't have to open door. That's why we need to curve about it. It's just simple. Just how the world is just set up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think that, so that's, that's the primary. And then just to be keeping it 100.

And if you look at the, the trend of Gen Zs right now in America, and even you be more, more specific white gen that man. The nuns are skyrocketing in the white community with the generation and I'm,

you know. [00:49:00] If, if there's a only sending group, which is our largest sending group whites in America 

Heather Winchell: mm-hmm. 

Tony Dentman: Then we're gonna have a very small pool in 20, 40, 40 years from now. Mm-hmm. Like, it just, I mean, if we're serious about reaching the world of Christ, man, we gotta be serious about diversifying our, um, our, our mobilization pool.

That just is what it is. I mean, I'm in Chicago and y'all in Colorado, so Yeah, I know. I mean, if right. More likely the white dude, like, I'm gonna shoot you straight. Like, for sure it's what it is. So, uh, I think those are the, the, the two primary way that the world is just diverse. And sometimes the color, your eyes or the color of your skin and the texture of your hair, people receive the gospel just a little bit easier.

Just depends. So mm-hmm. There's certain places where you're gonna be way more effective than I'm, um, and then man, we just gotta diversify our pipeline. Um, so that's, that's just, I'm just a numbers guy as simple as that because I. I really take seriously great commission. Um, so we just might, we got a [00:50:00] lot of people on the sideline from minority backgrounds that's not getting the game and is mainly because of support raising.

Mm-hmm. And I'm saying like, Hey, hey, let's change that. I'll sign you up. Yeah. I'll sign you up If you willing to be faithful. If you ain't willing to be faithful. I can't do much with you. I don't care about your color of your skin, but if you willing to be faithful. I got, I got you. I got you. Mm-hmm. 

Heather Winchell: Well, we will definitely point people towards your work and, um, your resources outside of Funding Tribe and you know, what you have there with your blogs and things like that.

Any other resources you would recommend to people? I. 

Tony Dentman: Yeah. So I mean, our blogs we're, we're trying to, we're trying to amp it up 2025. Uh, should be sending out a book by the end of, um, the spring. So there'll be something that is helpful. Okay, cool. Nice. Um, we got some online, online courses that, that we got out that we can't help any and everybody, but we, we say, Hey, give us, give us 10 years.

And we want to erase the lie that man, you can't get fully funded. [00:51:00] Like, uh, we want, we want every Christian organization out there that there's an organization that literally say, Hey, if you serious, we'll get you fully funded. So no matter where you at in, in the world, we try to get to the point that, hey, we have built the systems.

Uh, just be faithful and we'll get you to the mission field. So, um, because, uh, I always didn't come on staff because of fundraising, like, and, um, yeah, thanks, somebody believing in me and, and pushing me. God has been faithful in a mission field through my life, so 

Heather Winchell: amen. 

Tony Dentman: Amen. 

Heather Winchell: Okay, final question. So you've been invited to give a TED Talk.

You only have about 10 minutes to prepare and you cannot speak on fundraising. What are you going to take that stage and talk about? 

Tony Dentman: Uh, had a Ted talk. 10 minutes. I'm. Why leadership matters. 

Heather Winchell: Mm. So 

Tony Dentman: why leadership matters. So, um, yeah. And, and even [00:52:00] for the younger generation, and I'm not, I'm not talking to the CEOs I'm talking to.

The 18-year-old, the 19-year-old, that man that, that you are uniquely designed, uniquely created to make a difference in the world and that you need to develop and become a leader the guy has created you to be. 

Heather Winchell: Mm. So that, 

Tony Dentman: that's my, that's my TED talk. Uh, I was subtitle, so yeah. Yeah. 

Heather Winchell: Cool. That's awesome. I hope you have reason to make that.

Yeah, I will listen. Yeah, that's great. 

Tony Dentman: That's a great question. That's a great question. Hmm. 

Andy Brennan: Awesome. Well, thanks Tony. It's been great. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah, it's really great, really encouraging 

Andy Brennan: and I hope that the people that are listening to this really just are encouraged and motivated just to, to take a step. Mm-hmm.

And to see why they are. So needed. 

Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. And to recognize like, man, we are all going to hit moments where we wonder is this possible? And we are going to have very real things we have to wrestle with. But like Tony said, Jesus meets you there. Yeah. You know, it's a come to Jesus moment. Yeah. And that is [00:53:00] always a good thing.

It's good to wrestle. Yeah, 

Tony Dentman: yeah. No, thank you guys for inviting me. Uh, y'all killed it, man. Y'all are professionals around here, so, uh, thanks for letting me be a part of it, so, 

Andy Brennan: absolutely. 

Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

Andy Brennan: All right. God bless.

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