S1E15: Seattle Colleges Conversations with! International Programs Associate Director of Marketing & Outreach Gina Nakamura

In this our fifteenth (15th) episode, Seattle Colleges host Evan Franulovich interviews International Programs Associate Director of Marketing & Outreach Gina Nakamura about her experience here at Seattle Colleges and about how she helps students that want to come here to study. 

1:17 - Introducing Gina!

2:32 - ESL and ELL learners

4:07 - Asia

5:32 - Growing up in Seattle Colleges

8:06 - Transferring to UW Seattle*

11:58 - The domestic side

13:34 - Being a local and the local music scene

19:17 - South Seattle campus

22:43 - Trivia!

25:51 - Final advice

NOTE: 'UW' is often pronounced 'U DUB' and it stands for the 'University of Washington'. 

Copyright © Seattle Colleges International Programs 2023. All rights reserved. For more information about being an international student at Seattle Colleges, please visit intl.seattlecolleges.edu

The theme music 'Bounce' is an audio file pursuant to the Pixabay License as defined in the Pixabay Terms of Service available at https://http://pixabay.com/service/terms/

Also, connect with us on social media (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok) at
SeattleCollegesIntl

Transcript

Evan Franulovich: 0:05

Welcome to Seattle Colleges, international programs and our show Conversations with! where we talk to people that help you understand how you too, can be an international student in the United States and why Seattle Colleges should be your first choice. We'll talk to students and staff and agents and government folks, all kinds of people about what you can expect when you're getting ready to apply or travel here, what you'll experience while you're with us, and how it can all lead to an amazing life. Don't forget to check out the Seattle Colleges International Programs website at intl.seattlecolleges.edu, where you can find a treasure trove of information about the school, the programs here and best of all, fill out and submit your application. Again, that's intl.seattlecolleges.edu. I'm Evan Franulovich and I'm in Seattle, Washington again today where we are talking with Gina... Gina Nakamura, how are you?

Gina Nakamura: 1:17

I'm great. How are you, Evan?

Evan Franulovich: 1:18

Good. So Gina is one of our staff members here in the International Programs office. And like me, she is one of the new faces in the cubicles. What do you think so far?

Gina Nakamura: 1:31

I feel like this is the dream job of my life.

Evan Franulovich: 1:35

What?

Gina Nakamura: 1:36

What about you? Don't you feel that way?

Evan Franulovich: 1:37

It's a great job. I do. It's pretty awesome. Now why do you say you think it's your dream job? What is it about the job that's so great?

Gina Nakamura: 1:44

Well, because I only had a passport since maybe my early 20s. But ever since then I have spent every possible dime that I have saved, to experience other cultures and traveled to other countries on my own personal dime. And now I get to combine the thing that I already like to do in my personal life with my actual position here at Seattle Colleges. So... dream job.

Evan Franulovich: 2:18

And you just took a... well, let's go back just a little bit. So what's your title?

Gina Nakamura: 2:23

So I am the Associate Director of Marketing and Outreach.

Evan Franulovich: 2:28

Yeah, and you serve which regions? And which countries?

Gina Nakamura: 2:32

And I serve just mainly Southeast Asia. There's a couple exceptions there. And I do South Korea, and then I'm also domestically representing ESL schools or ELL learners.

Evan Franulovich: 2:48

So the people that go to these ESL schools are already international students?

Gina Nakamura: 2:53

They can be a mix. They can be on different types of visas. Sometimes they're on visitors visas. They're on different types of visas. And for different reasons they want to learn English. And sometimes they want to learn different levels of English, so they only need maybe conversational English, which is different than if you're trying to go into our educational system. So it can be varied for English learners.

Evan Franulovich: 3:13

And so those those English learners, are they looking to start their college careers then, are they looking to come here to begin their freshman year at university, or...?

Gina Nakamura: 3:22

Some are, and some are just learning for their particular job goal. So maybe they're going to be a nanny, and they just want conversational English to be able to communicate with their family. So it just depends all depends

Evan Franulovich: 3:36

So they come here to go through our Intensive on their goals. English Program, is that... or do they... what do they do?

Gina Nakamura: 3:42

They can or they could go to any of the myriad of local English schools that exist all around our nation and all different cities. So sometimes they're just tourists, actually, that want to come and learn a certain amount of English to be able to get around. Some want short term programs so sometimes they need a certain level of English but not a high enough English to qualify them for college level and so that they can do a short term certificate and go back.

Evan Franulovich: 4:07

So you're getting ready to travel to Asia, right? for your region over there. Where are you going to go soon?

Gina Nakamura: 4:14

I'm gonna go to South Korea. I'm so excited.

Evan Franulovich: 4:17

First time?

Gina Nakamura: 4:18

Second time.

Evan Franulovich: 4:20

Where did you go before?

Gina Nakamura: 4:21

Just to Seoul.

Evan Franulovich: 4:23

And this time, same place?

Gina Nakamura: 4:24

This time, same place, except a little jaunt to an island as well called Jeju Island.

Evan Franulovich: 4:30

Oh, what are you going to... Are you gonna go sit on a beach or...?

Gina Nakamura: 4:33

It's... no, I think it's a recruitment situation.

Evan Franulovich: 4:36

Oh, no kidding?

Gina Nakamura: 4:36

I'm going as a part of a tour.

Evan Franulovich: 4:38

What a deal.

Gina Nakamura: 4:39

Yeah.

Evan Franulovich: 4:40

Wow, very exciting. And in the fall, you also traveled Asia. Where did you go then?

Gina Nakamura: 4:45

I did Thailand. For... and that was great. I mainly stayed in Bangkok, but also did a few days in Chiang Mai.

Evan Franulovich: 4:52

Nice. Very good. And people were friendly and excited to learn about coming to school in the US?

Gina Nakamura: 4:59

Oh yeah. I was... I was very nervous since it was my first international trip representing Seattle Colleges, though I had been to Thailand many years in the past, and everyone was so warm and welcoming. And I feel much more connected even when I meet our Thai students now on campus, and I love talking to them about their home country and where they're from.

Evan Franulovich: 5:23

So you are a bit of a veteran here at Seattle Colleges, you didn't just start working at Seattle Colleges, you've been here a while. Tell us about where you came from.

Gina Nakamura: 5:32

Yeah, I almost feel like I grew up in the Seattle Colleges. Because my story starts at South Seattle College, actually. And when I was 15. So when I was 15... very unusual, actually, most of the time, you have to be a minimum of 16 years of age. But I was home schooled and long story short, I qualified to start community college early to basically do the version of high school completion for international students but on the domestic side, it's called Running Start, and so therefore, I was doing high school and college at the same time, for two years. And I started off at South Seattle, located in West Seattle. And that was my home. I grew up there. I, I actually ended up going there for almost six years straight, which is an unusual amount of time to go to a community college.

Evan Franulovich: 6:31

Yeah, for our listeners, you know, community college is usually two. So why six years what were you doing?

Gina Nakamura: 6:37

Well, there's many reasons why it took me six years. I'll give you some examples of some reasons. One is that it's quite hard to decide a major at 15 years of age.

Evan Franulovich: 6:51

Oh, that's true.

Gina Nakamura: 6:51

And if you pick something and you change your mind, you might need to start over. And that was my case, I'll give an example. I chose to do a program, it was called a professional technical program, it was in IT. So I chose to get an IT professional technical degree, because I was a huge gamer and I could pull apart and take apart my computer. And I spent every waking hour that I wasn't working, or going to school, playing MMO RPGs because I'm, I'm still a huge gamer. So I just knew that that was going to be for me. And I learned how to code and I learned how to write web pages. And I learned how to network things together. And... but I never considered that I was going to be the only female in a class of 30 older men. So I decided, after that program that I didn't want to work in the IT industry.

Evan Franulovich: 7:51

Wow, all these men, isn't that a good thing?

Gina Nakamura: 7:54

And yeah, so that's an example of how then I... Those two years, I decided to abandon and go a different route.

Evan Franulovich: 8:03

But at some point, you did actually get your associate's degree.

Gina Nakamura: 8:06

That's right. Eventually, the last two year degree I got at community college was a transfer degree. And then I transferred to the University of Washington, Seattle campus, and got my Bachelor's in Communications.

Evan Franulovich: 8:19

Oh, cool. So how did you decide? You know, a lot of international students come here, and they have to kind of decide where they want to transfer if they're going to do that. How did you decide on the UW?

Gina Nakamura: 8:31

Yeah, so first of all, you know, when I was going to South Seattle, which is more in a neighborhood, by the way, so South Seattle's College, the feel it's in West Seattle, it's in a more slow and quiet and residential neighborhood, which really fit me to start with, you know, I was already a nervous person. And you know, I already didn't have experience in high school. So I was happy with the smallness and the quietness of South Seattle, for me personally, to start. But very soon on, I would say maybe a year or so, after going to South Seattle and getting my bearings, I definitely craved the inner city. Okay. And so I transferred and came here to Seattle Central, because I wanted more excitement. And I wanted to be out and about where all the other people were, and the transportation lines converged. And so I ended up coming to Seattle Central as a student

Evan Franulovich: 9:26

And did you find the exciting life that you So could you talk about the transfer process? were looking for?

Gina Nakamura: 9:29

Yeah, and I never left. Well, I came back to work here, so... then I transferred to University Seattle, and you I mean, you had to apply to the UW, and... Was it an automatic asked me why I chose UW. And you know, at the time, honestly, it was because it was the cool popular school to go to. If you're born and raised like me, in Seattle, Washington, you know, that you're the University is UW, and the location is UW Seattle. Of course, they have other locations in Tacoma and Bothell. But the one that you want to go to is Seattle. So I had this dream and it was wonderful that the community college has a two-year transfer degree option so I could go to community college for two years, and then transfer into University of Washington. thing, or do you have to... I don't know the process for getting into the University of Washington... Yeah, well, I'm so old that at the time that I transferred, it's not applicable to U students now is it don't get all excited, okay? But at the time, when I transferred, there was still an old what's called a DTA agreement, and that just stands for an direct transfer agreement that existed in Washington State at the time. Where if you graduated from any of the 34 community and technical colleges in Washington with an AA, then you were automatically accepted into the UW, any campus you choose, as long as you met a minimum GPA requirement. But that is no longer the case, so you can still transfer but it is not an automatic acceptance.

Evan Franulovich: 11:16

So are there a limited number of spots for...?

Gina Nakamura: 11:20

Exactly. So UW has a certain percentage of seats that they hold for freshmen and for transfers, and for internationals and all the types of students they have. So you are only competitive with the type of student that you are coming in at.

Evan Franulovich: 11:35

So if you're a transfer student, and you're an international student, that's two categories they put together?

Gina Nakamura: 11:42

You know, I'm not... that's a good question. I actually don't know how UW separates their algorithms for how many transfer students versus international students and the overlap that can exist, I'm not sure their algorithm of how they decide.

Evan Franulovich: 11:58

So on the domestic side, you worked. What was your job on the domestic side here in Seattle Colleges?

Gina Nakamura: 12:03

I did outreach like I do now, except for domestic students. I love it.

Evan Franulovich: 12:10

That is, it's really fun to watch students do their first two years and then transfer and go on and... Are you still in touch with some of the students you recruited?

Gina Nakamura: 12:20

Oh, yeah, actually, the the only way I even came to visit Asia for the first time was I befriended a student, an international student here, that came to work for me on the domestic side of the house. And after our employment was over time, and we were friends, she invited me back to Taiwan to stay with her family when she was going back for a home visit.

Evan Franulovich: 12:48

Cool.

Gina Nakamura: 12:49

And I was addicted. I just knew that I wanted to continue going to other continents and countries and really experiencing how people live. And getting to stay with her family was definitely a highlight.

Evan Franulovich: 13:06

Wow, nice. Nice that she was here. Well, that's cool. So you are from Seattle, so you're a little bit rare. So many people come to Seattle from other places. So as a local, you know, tell our listeners what they can expect, or what's the inside scoop on the city, you, you have kind of a different view of it maybe than other people. I mean, you probably just don't go to the Space Needle every day, you have all sorts of cool places.

Gina Nakamura: 13:34

I do feel like a dying breed, to be honest, because I feel like more and more of my friends throughout the years are starting to be people who are from all over the world because they have moved here. There's so many transplants, so many companies hiring here, especially IT companies that it seems like more and more of my friends are from all over the world, which is, I think amazing and fabulous. But yeah, I do feel the Seattle vibe through my bones and through my core, you know, I mean, going to the first Starbucks in the world, ... Pike Market, going to where they throw the fish, you know, growing up actually shopping for my fruits and vegetables there in the Pike Market, because it was reasonably priced and actually fresh and great. Still a great place by the way to buy flowers if you need to buy fresh cut flowers. The vibe of Seattle is definitely, in my opinion, a great place a great match to study. Because, you know, of course we have rain. Of course we have, of course we have gray skies. But you know, frankly, when I'm trying to concentrate and study and focus and look outside my window, it was kind of helpful to sit in a coffee shop and tell myself for these next two hours I'm going to get through these chapters. And I think that it's a great match for a place to study. And the hipster vibe here is pretty cool. This particular neighborhood of Capitol Hill has a long history of being LGBTQ plus friendly area of the city. It's always been kind of a younger hipsterish vibe, so Seattle Central, out of the three colleges, I think really has that going for it. And the music scene, I feel like in the 90s, and 2000s was, you know, definitely better. But all of these kind of arts areas - music and art galleries and our amazing first Thursday's of all of our museums, being free around the city, and small music venues that we still have - definitely lends to a really cool vibe to be able to have fun, go out in the city on the weekends, and do your studies during the week.

Evan Franulovich: 16:00

Okay, so going out to see local bands play where is the best, which is the best spot?

Gina Nakamura: 16:06

Oh... The best spot? I think it just depends on the categories you know of have how small or how large you want to be. So I would say going from the largest to the smallest... Of course, the largest would be the Gorge. And that takes a few hours to drive to, but it's fabulous. And if you've never done it, it's worth a trip out there. And you could just hop a car or rent a car and be out there.

Evan Franulovich: 16:31

But I'm talking like... in the city.

Gina Nakamura: 16:32

Coming down, right coming all the way down to city. There's a few more amphitheaters around, actually there's a wonderful one down in Puyallup that a lot of people don't know about that's on an Indian reservation called the White River Amphitheatre. Much smaller than the Gorge, much faster and closer...

Evan Franulovich: 16:45

And they get good bands?

Gina Nakamura: 16:47

Oh, yeah, I saw Maroon Five there for $20 last year.

Evan Franulovich: 16:49

Jeez. 20 bucks!

Gina Nakamura: 16:50

Groupon. $20! Yeah.

Evan Franulovich: 16:52

Wow... You got a Groupon. That's hilarious.

Gina Nakamura: 16:55

Hey, these are great deals for students, right? You know, if you're on a student income, like I have been most of my life, then I learned all the wonderful, great, affordable ways to still have fun and go out and do all the things you want to do in the city. So yeah, and then moving down from there. There are venues like the Washington... it's adjoined to SoDo stadium. What's it called? Washington Mutual theater... Oh, WAMU. Yeah, it's called WAMU, for short. WAMU theater they have like, I would say, mini raves. WAMU theater and Tacoma Dome are kind of the same size and they would do more like mini rave situations. Yeah, Tacoma Dome just had one last weekend. Their mini rave is called Thunderdome. WAMU houses a few...

Evan Franulovich: 17:45

That'd be a lot of people.

Gina Nakamura: 17:47

Yeah, yeah, but still smaller than Gorge and the amphitheatre and stuff, and it's indoors, right. So you can have them during the times of the year in which you can't be outside. And then even moving down smaller from that there's like SoDo Showbox. So there's Showbox downtown right across the street from Pike Place. But then there's now different branches of SoDo. Those are great venues. I saw like Red Hot Chili Peppers there for free concerts in college when they came, they did lots of different shows. I've, you know, gone to see at that time, it was like Matchbox 20 and Third Eye Blind and Bob Dylan and...

Evan Franulovich: 18:23

Very cool.

Gina Nakamura: 18:25

And of course Nirvana.

Evan Franulovich: 18:27

Yes, the home of Grunge here in Seattle. Very cool.

Gina Nakamura: 18:30

And then even smaller here in Capitol Hill, there is venues like Neumos these are kind of more places that are like smaller, you would consider them like I consider them like box clubs. You know, it's just one room. Tiny.

Evan Franulovich: 18:44

Everybody standing. Right. Very cool. Let's see. So, you were at South and you are the first person I've talked to that really was or has been a student at South, so... can you go into a little more detail about what someone might expect if they go to that campus. Like, what's there? You talked about, you know, Central has the vibe, and we've had a couple of guests who, who go to North and they've talked about North, but nobody's really talked about South too much. So you spent time there.

Gina Nakamura: 19:17

Yeah, and to me, and always will be, South has my heart. So probably because it was my first community college I set foot on, and first place that I made connections. But even now, after spending so many years at Seattle Central, South Seattle will still always have my heart because the feeling and the vibe of South Seattle is honestly it's like a family. As you go around the campus and spend time on the campus, people are very friendly there. And you can think about it in terms of you know how when you're in a big city and you're walking on the street, you might not make eye contact and you might not say hello to someone walking down on the street because it's weird. You're like you're walking around a bunch of people all the time, you're not gonna say hello to every person on the street. But if you drive out to the countryside, and you're in a little tiny town, right, that's not Seattle, and you might happen to go somewhere, or groceries or whatever, and you see somebody, you might acknowledge them and say hi, or whatever... it's like that. So that's the best analogy I can come up with where there at South Seattle, people more, I feel, you know, say hi, or good morning or know your name, or you just become more familiar because you are such a smaller student body, you know, and because there's nothing else around you, there's no businesses, there's no restaurants, you're just around homes. So you really become insulated to your group. If you're walking around campus, you have seen that face before, most likely.

Evan Franulovich: 20:44

That's cool. So South is kind of cool because they have special programs there. Do you... do you want to talk about a couple of the cool things people can study at South?

Gina Nakamura: 20:55

Yeah, some of the cool things people can study is say Landscape Horticulture. So, they actually have huge gardens. Half of their campus in their, I think is 90 acre campus - is gardens. They have beautiful, you know, conifer gardens and a five senses gardens and a pagoda gardens and you can walk around and I'm a huge plants person, so they would do plant sales every week and I would go and take plants and bring it back home. And... so Landscape Horticulture is one of the unique programs they have that I like. Culinary Arts is another unique program, even though we also have it at Central because their Culinary Arts is paired with wine, with viticulture. They have wine tasting two days a week.

Evan Franulovich: 21:40

That's really cool.

Gina Nakamura: 21:41

Really cool. $8 for a four glass pour is a pretty good deal.

Evan Franulovich: 21:46

Right? And international students can do that program, yeah?

Gina Nakamura: 21:50

If you're over 21.

Evan Franulovich: 21:51

If you're over 21, ok.

Gina Nakamura: 21:52

Yeah, still can't do it if you're under 21.

Evan Franulovich: 21:53

Oh, man. Well... You older international students come join us for some winemaking.

Gina Nakamura: 22:00

That's right. And they have Aviation. That's another really unique and popular International Student program. Actually, that campus used to allow landing of actual planes in the back of that campus. The back road was a landing airstrip many years ago.

Evan Franulovich: 22:15

But no longer, their not doing that any longer. No longer. And there's... you'd mentioned, there's no businesses, but there are places on the campus to eat, right? There's some cafes, or...

Gina Nakamura: 22:25

There's cafeterias, there's kind of like Central there's the Culinary Arts area where students are practicing for their future. And so they are doing the cooking. And then there's the more traditional cafeteria, which has your more typical college junk food situation so you can still get your cravings.

Evan Franulovich: 22:43

Good coffee, they had good coffee last time I was there. So it was good. Oh, do you hear that? You know what that sound means? That sound means it's time for our trivia around. I'm gonna ask you five questions in rapid succession and if you can answer them all correctly, you will get on our Wall of Fame and get a big high five... if you don't answer them... you'll live in shame, Gina... So, so tough. You ready to go? All right, here we go. What is the mascot at South Seattle Colleges?

Gina Nakamura: 23:16

It is the otter.

Evan Franulovich: 23:17

The otter, that's right. And what is the annual tuition at South Seattle College?

Gina Nakamura: 23:25

For international or domestic because that is a different answer. International tuition only, without fees, living expenses, other expenses, you're looking at about $12,000 per year.

Evan Franulovich: 23:42

All right, yeah, just a little bit less than that, which is great. Very good. What's another name for a two-year degree?

Gina Nakamura: 23:50

It is known as a associate's or transfer degree.

Evan Franulovich: 23:55

Okay, very good. And what is... give us one example of a student or school that a international student can transfer to with a ... with a TAG, with a trans... Transfer Admission Guarantee. I almost got that wrong.

Gina Nakamura: 24:12

I'm gonna give my favorite example of a TAG, because because it is the only program that an international student can get into the major of Engineering, which is a huge deal because engineering is a wildly popular, highly competitive, everybody... well, not everybody, but lots of students want to choose engineering. So, listen up - the University of Alaska Fairbanks in which I actually visited and walked around their campus.

Evan Franulovich: 24:41

And I'm a former employee of the University of Alaska.

Gina Nakamura: 24:43

Oh, there you go. That's my favorite TAG.

Evan Franulovich: 24:45

Very cool. Well, that's great. And the last question who is going to win Best Actor for the Academy Awards? Who's your ...who's your favorite?

Gina Nakamura: 24:58

Best Actor.

Evan Franulovich: 25:00

Are you a movie watcher?

Gina Nakamura: 25:01

I am a huge movie watcher? Um, who do I like lately? That's a good question...

Evan Franulovich: 25:11

Or how about this... Best Film. Which film are you pulling for? Who do you want to see win?

Gina Nakamura: 25:20

Think about recent films that I've seen. Gosh, this is a hard... It's funny how this is the only question that's stumping me.

Evan Franulovich: 25:31

Well did you see Avatar?

Gina Nakamura: 25:33

The second one?

Evan Franulovich: 25:34

Yeah.

Gina Nakamura: 25:34

Yeah. I don't know that I...

Evan Franulovich: 25:38

It was ok.

Gina Nakamura: 25:39

It was, it was good. I don't know that it'd be pulling for Sam Worthington to win an Academy Award for his Avatar situation. I would have to get back to you.

Evan Franulovich: 25:51

All right, no problem. Well, you did a great job. All those answers were wonderful. That's great. So we're getting ready to wrap this up. It goes so fast. But do you have any parting advice to students that are overseas that are thinking about becoming an exchange student, not exchange student... to become an international student, or advice for the application process, something that you hear a lot of, in your time as a recruiter for the International Programs, something you want to pass on to students?

Gina Nakamura: 26:25

You know, in my 20 plus years of doing outreach and recruitment, my advice is actually the same for domestic and international students. And my advice lies around the idea of, you know, shopping is a thing. And it is a very important thing, I think. Because I think making a decision, like choosing a campus or choosing a location or choosing a city, the more shopping and, and discovery that you can make around that decision, the better. And so my advice would be to really utilize all of the ways that we have for you to get to know us, like come get to know us. That could be dropping into a live Zoom that we have weekly right now with one of our staff members, or talking directly to a current student. You know, what if you want to hear from someone who's going to classes now, you know, if they're really liking living on campus, or eating the food, or you know, anything or experiencing the city. So we have all these different ways to help you figure out how you will feel here, before you even get here. And I would say read and really utilize those options. And then once you're here, or if you ever come for a trip or a visit, come by we would love to give you a tour.

Evan Franulovich: 27:51

Give you a tour. Yeah... Come see us. We like visits. It gets us out of the office and we get to walk around.

Gina Nakamura: 27:58

Yeah, and for me, I love showing off the campus that I started out at and that I fell in love with and never left, so...

Evan Franulovich: 28:07

I mean, if you're gonna go to the trouble of coming all the way to Seattle from overseas, you should really look at each of our campuses because they're all very different. The South is very different than North, Central is very different, so...

Gina Nakamura: 28:20

Exactly.

Evan Franulovich: 28:21

Come see us.

Gina Nakamura: 28:21

Shop around. Shopping is fun.

Evan Franulovich: 28:22

Shop around... when you said 'shop', I thought... for jeans or purses or... No, you mean the schools. Very cool. Well, thanks so much for your time, get you away from

Gina Nakamura: 28:30

Thank you so much, Evan. your busy day. Appreciate the insight.

Evan Franulovich: 28:38

Take care. Bye bye. Conversations with! is painstakingly crafted for you by the Seattle Colleges International Programs department and supported by the lovely folks here on our campus. This show is produced and edited by me, Evan Franulovich. We welcome your emails and questions about coming to Seattle Colleges. Please reach out to us via our website or just give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts as this helps others discover the show. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, or YouTube at SeattleCollegesIntl, that's SeattleCollegesIntl. And be sure to check out all of the shows here on Conversations with! Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.