S4E22: Seattle Colleges Conversations with! International Student Etzon Gutierrez of Mexico

In this our twenty-second (22nd) episode of Season 4, Seattle Colleges host Evan Franulovich interviews international student Etzon Gutierrez of Mexico about his experience here at Seattle Central and about life in the United States. 

1:19 - Meet Etzon!

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Transcript

Evan Franulovich  0:05  
Welcome to Seattle Colleges International Programs and our show Conversations with! where we talk to people that help you understand how you too, can be an international student in the United States and why Seattle Colleges should be your first choice. We'll talk to students and staff and agents and government folks, all kinds of people about what you can expect when you're getting ready to apply or travel here, what you'll experience while you're with us, and how it can all lead to an amazing life. Don't forget to check out the Seattle Colleges International Programs website at intl.seattlecolleges.edu where you can find a treasure trove of information about the school, the programs here and best of all, fill out and submit your application. Again, that's intl.seattlecolleges.edu.

Evan Franulovich  1:04  
Hey everybody, welcome back to Seattle Colleges Conversations With!, we're here at North Seattle College ,today. Which is great because I haven't been up to North for a while. Want to welcome yet another guest from the great country of?

Etzon Gutierrez  1:22  
Mexico.

Evan Franulovich  1:27  
Welcome, yeah, tell everybody who you are, where you're from, exactly. 

Etzon Gutierrez  1:32  
Okay.

Evan Franulovich  1:33  
What you're studying and maybe how long you've been here.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:36  
Okay, so I'm from Guadalajara, Mexico and I'm studying civil engineering,

Evan Franulovich  1:45  
Oh, okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:46  
And I have been here, nine months.

Evan Franulovich  1:49  
Okay. And your full name?

Etzon Gutierrez  1:52  
Etzon, David, Enrique, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.

Evan Franulovich  1:56  
Oh, my gosh.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:56  
It's a long name even for Mexico.

Evan Franulovich  1:59  
That is a long name.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:00  
Yeah. Even for Mexico, everyone is like, what?

Evan Franulovich  2:02  
So will your son or daughter when you have, do you have kids? So will they have to attack another name yet? On top of that?

Etzon Gutierrez  2:11  
No.

Evan Franulovich  2:12  
No.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:12  
No, there is no way.

Evan Franulovich  2:13  
No more. 

Etzon Gutierrez  2:14  
Actually, everyone knows me as Edson Gutierrez. 

Evan Franulovich  2:17  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:17  
My family is like, yeah.

Evan Franulovich  2:19  
Okay, cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:19  
So it's just, it was a pride thing.

Evan Franulovich  2:22  
All right, no, I love it. I think it's really cool. But, yeah, definitely unusual around here. So, yeah, cool. You've been here and you are doing civil engineering. That seems pretty, what do you want to do with civil engineering?

Etzon Gutierrez  2:35  
I love construction.

Evan Franulovich  2:38  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:38  
I have been in construction since I was 13 years old.

Evan Franulovich  2:42  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:42  
My dad, it's a civil architect, engineer kind of thing. It's a combination of architecture and civil engineering,

Evan Franulovich  2:49  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  2:50  
So when I was 13 years old, he used to take me to the job sites, and I started falling in love. I started working on the job site when I was 14, helping him doing stuff. I really enjoy it, and I love it. 

Evan Franulovich  3:01  
Wow, is he still working, or is he retired now? 

Etzon Gutierrez  3:04  
He is working, but not specifically the way he used to. He's doing a lot of real estate, and he do real estate development and stuff, but he doesn't go to the job sites anymore.

Evan Franulovich  3:16  
Gotcha. Gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  3:17  
So it's different.

Evan Franulovich  3:18  
That'll be you.

Etzon Gutierrez  3:20  
(Inaudible)

Evan Franulovich  3:21  
Okay. Well, cool. I want to do this because I always forget I get excited. On my podcast, we have a little thing called getting to know you. I asked you a series of questions. It's just you pick either this or this. That's all there is. 

Etzon Gutierrez  3:32  
Sounds good.

Evan Franulovich  3:33  
It's super easy. And it goes like this, Dun dun dun. Coffee or tea? 

Etzon Gutierrez  3:41  
Coffee.

Evan Franulovich  3:42  
Yeah, we had a student from Argentina. He used to bring matcha. It was this thing, yeah, okay. Mountains or beach?

Etzon Gutierrez  3:52  
Mountains.

Evan Franulovich  3:52  
Ah, yeah, me too. Is it pretty mountainous around Guadalajara? 

Etzon Gutierrez  3:55  
No.

Evan Franulovich  3:56  
No.

Etzon Gutierrez  3:56  
There are a few. But there are not, and I'm not the typical Mexican, because they love beach. I love the beach, but I prefer mountains 100%.

Evan Franulovich  4:05  
Cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  4:05  
I love cold.

Evan Franulovich  4:06  
Well, he came to the right place. Seattle is cold. 

Etzon Gutierrez  4:11  
(Inaudible).

Evan Franulovich  4:12  
Is that? Is that why you're here? 

Etzon Gutierrez  4:13  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  4:11  
You could, because you could have gone anywhere in the U.S., right?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:13  
To be in the US. And I was even thinking some other parts of the world, but I was like, my conditions to wherever I go to study. It has to be called cold.

Evan Franulovich  4:21  
Uh huh.

Etzon Gutierrez  4:22  
They need to speak English.

Evan Franulovich  4:23  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  4:24  
And there needs to be a lot of nature around.

Evan Franulovich  4:26  
Wow, a lot of nature here, check it out. All right, early bird or night owl?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:32  
I'm a night owl. I love to say that I'm an early bird, but I will be lying.

Evan Franulovich  4:36  
Oh, so you're up early today?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:37  
Yeah. (inaudible), that time, it's okay. But I would love to say, like, oh, I wake up at 5am and sometimes I do, but it's like, I hate it.

Evan Franulovich  4:44  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  4:45  
I hate it. 

Evan Franulovich  4:46  
Books or movies?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:48  
Ah, that's a tough one.

Evan Franulovich  4:49  
I know, right?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:51  
Movies.

Evan Franulovich  4:53  
We'll get back to movies.

Etzon Gutierrez  4:54  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  4:54  
Texting or phone calls?

Etzon Gutierrez  4:56  
Texting.

Evan Franulovich  4:57  
Interesting. See, like the younger students I've talked to, they like the phone calls.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:03  
Oh.

Evan Franulovich  5:03  
Which really suprised me.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:04  
(Inaudible).

Evan Franulovich  5:04  
Everything's circular. Cats or dogs?

Etzon Gutierrez  5:11  
I have both, but.

Evan Franulovich  5:12  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:12  
Definitely, I prefer dogs, the energy.

Evan Franulovich  5:15  
You have both a cat and a dog here in the States?

Etzon Gutierrez  5:17  
I have my two cats here. My dog is in Mexico, and I'm gonna bring her in. 

Evan Franulovich  5:21  
Wow.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:22  
Hopefully.

Evan Franulovich  5:23  
So have you checked into the process of getting a dog, is it complicated?

Etzon Gutierrez  5:26  
Yeah, it's more about spans and having a place in which you can put the dog more than anything.

Evan Franulovich  5:32  
Right, right. 

Etzon Gutierrez  5:32  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  5:33  
But they won't have to quarantine the dog for a period of time. Yeah, it's pretty easy.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:36  
As long as they have every their vaccines and they're up to date.

Evan Franulovich  5:40  
You're good. Yeah, yeah. I brought a dog from China when I moved back from China, and it was a little bit complicated.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:46  
Yeah, when was that?

Evan Franulovich  5:48  
But the cat was easy. That was a right after Covisd, It's was 2022.

Etzon Gutierrez  5:52  
Okay, that makes sense, still. So everyone was being quarantined at that time,

Evan Franulovich  5:56  
Yeah, so thankfully, we didn't have to quarantine the dog. We just had to make sure all the shots were up to date, and we had the paperwork, and it was good. And it was funny. When we arrived in San Francisco, I thought they were really gonna dig through my paperwork and check it. They were just like, Alright, go. It's, like, all that work, all that money.

Etzon Gutierrez  6:15  
It happens.

Evan Franulovich  6:15  
Yeah. What kind of dog do you have?

Etzon Gutierrez  6:18  
It's a mix, but it's like a Belgian Malinois.

Evan Franulovich  6:23  
Oh, I love those dogs. Very pretty,

Etzon Gutierrez  6:25  
Yeah, high energy, and she's really disciplined.

Evan Franulovich  6:29  
Yeah, very pretty dogs. I have a friend who likes Belgian Malinois. City or country?

Etzon Gutierrez  6:41  
It depends, but let's say city (inaudible).

Evan Franulovich  6:44  
Okay, thought you were gonna say country, but.

Etzon Gutierrez  6:48  
I used to live in the countryside in Canada, so I love it. But right now I'm in in a city when I could choose a country college. 

Evan Franulovich  6:56  
Right, right. Fair enough. Adventure or chill at home?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:01  
Adventure.

Evan Franulovich  7:02  
Ah, good for you. And, summer or winter?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:06  
Winter.

Evan Franulovich  7:08  
Cooking at home or eating out?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:10  
Cooking at home.

Evan Franulovich  7:11  
Oh, yeah, are you a cook or you just have it? 

Etzon Gutierrez  7:13  
Yeah, I'm a cook.

Evan Franulovich  7:15  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  7:15  
Self, and also my wife cooks really good. 

Evan Franulovich  7:17  
Great, great. You have a special thing that you always make, or?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:21  
We do a lot of pastas.

Evan Franulovich  7:23  
Huh.

Etzon Gutierrez  7:24  
Yeah, it's weird, but we do a lot of pasta.

Evan Franulovich  7:27  
Red sauces, white sauces?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:29  
Green sauces, all this stuff, you can imagine, we change all the time. So, yeah.

Evan Franulovich  7:34  
Cool. All right. Well, that's it. That's all there's to the podcast questions. Yeah, you kind of get an idea of who you are. That's really interesting. So you were in Mexico, one day you decided I'm gonna go to the States to study.

Etzon Gutierrez  7:47  
No.

Evan Franulovich  7:48  
No, okay. How did it all work?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:50  
Well, yes, but no, because it was more, it was way harder than that. I used to live in Canada, and then I had to leave Canada because of immigration purposes at the time, and my lawyers were not real lawyers, so there was a mess. So one day CBSA that is boarder services. They were like, 'Oh, you're over time here'. What? What do you mean? So then I noticed that the lawyers, whatever they were supposed to do, they didn't do it, so I have to flee the country, back to Mexico. My wife staying there in Canada. And they were like, you can apply again and come back to Canada. That's not a problem. So we did that three times and didn't work. And I'm like, this is too much.

Evan Franulovich  7:50  
You mean you applied three times and were rejected?

Etzon Gutierrez  7:50  
Two times, two times, two times, two times, were rejected.

Evan Franulovich  8:28  
Okay, let's go back just a little bit more, because I want to get back to that. What took you to Canada in the first place? How old were you?

Etzon Gutierrez  8:36  
I was at that time? 20, it was two years ago, 28.

Evan Franulovich  8:53  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  8:54  
I mean, seven.

Evan Franulovich  8:55  
Okay. So you are a non-traditional student. You're not just out of high school. Let's go back even further then, and I have to keep pushing it back.

Etzon Gutierrez  9:02  
That's good.

Evan Franulovich  9:03  
So you're a little boy, let's say you're in grade school in Mexico. Do you go to public, private school?

Etzon Gutierrez  9:08  
Private school.

Evan Franulovich  9:08  
Private school, and then you graduated into high school?

Etzon Gutierrez  9:13  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  9:13  
Did high school in Mexico? Where did you go to high school? 

Etzon Gutierrez  9:14  
At Guadalajara, but the name, it's so weird. So it's like Univa. And then I finished my last semester in UBM, which is Universidad del Valle, Mexico.

Evan Franulovich  9:29  
Okay, yeah, well, shout out to that. And at that time, did you think, oh, maybe someday I'll study overseas, or were you just pretty much thinking you were going to be in Mexico?

Etzon Gutierrez  9:39  
If we go even further, every time that I watch a movie, and you see those amazing and majestic universities in London, in the U.S. , there are so many. You see a lot of movies that they have, you see, they have a harbor. They have, MIT, I was like, Wow, that's amazing. And I remember, even with my dad, I was probably 12 years old.

Evan Franulovich  10:07  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  10:08  
if you're able to get into Harvard, I will pay for your school. I think that none of us, not neither him or I, we know, we knew what we were talking about, because it's totally expensive. Sorry.

Evan Franulovich  10:21  
Right. 

Etzon Gutierrez  10:21  
It is hugely expensive. It's and, I was not even thinking of going to Harvard. So I was like, there's no way.

Evan Franulovich  10:29  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  10:29  
But I would like, when I saw those in the movies, I was like, I want that, all my dream was to go to a university like that, all the time.

Evan Franulovich  10:38  
That's cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  10:39  
Yeah. But after high school, no, that was not my thought process. I was, no, I think that thought of studying abroad, started when I was 22-23.

Evan Franulovich  10:52  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  10:52  
So yeah, because I also studied civil engineering in Mexico,

Evan Franulovich  10:55  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  10:56  
But I didn't finish.

Evan Franulovich  10:58  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  11:00  
Out of nine semesters, I did six or seven.

Evan Franulovich  11:03  
All right, did you also work? I mean, there's a chunk of time there. Did you, you're working for your dad? Or were you?

Etzon Gutierrez  11:09  
I was working for myself, for my dad, for, I was working a lot.

Evan Franulovich  11:16  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  11:16  
Yeah. Because since I was like 16-17, I was studying and working. So then, when that chunk of time that I was not studying, I was working a lot. So yeah.

Evan Franulovich  11:28  
So you're working a lot, so business was good. Why did you think, 'I need to go back and get a degree'.

Etzon Gutierrez  11:34  
So two things, my dad moved to Canada.

Evan Franulovich  11:39  
Aha.

Etzon Gutierrez  11:40  
When I was 22 and I had a business of my own at that time, and one year, in one year and a half in my business go ,like, bankrupt.

Evan Franulovich  11:53  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  11:53  
So he was like, 'What are you doing?', I have no idea. I have a clean slate, and I have no money. So we'll see. He was like, come and try it out here in Canada. He was, he had been, at that time in Canada for two or three years already, so he was already kind of settled, so he said, 'come take a look, see if you like it'.

Evan Franulovich  12:10  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  12:10  
I went. I fell in love.

Evan Franulovich  12:11  
Wow.

Etzon Gutierrez  12:12  
So yeah, my life has been.

Evan Franulovich  12:14  
Right. Well, what took your dad to Canada? Well, like, why did he choose to go to Canada?

Etzon Gutierrez  12:19  
He was thinking of my siblings, 100% and I think it was a really smart thing to do, in the sense that Mexico it's not the safest country in the world. And he was like, I don't want my.

Evan Franulovich  12:35  
Kids.

Etzon Gutierrez  12:35  
My kids, children, to live through, go through this, because I'm the oldest by a lot. So on my dad's side, my younger brother, after me, he's 12-13, right now, so we have 17 years of a difference..

Evan Franulovich  12:52  
Yeah. That's a lot.

Etzon Gutierrez  12:53  
Yeah. So they were four, and my little sister was one year when they moved to Canada. So it was the perfect timing. 

Evan Franulovich  12:53  
And so when he got to Canada, did he go to work for other people? Or did he start?

Etzon Gutierrez  13:05  
International student.

Evan Franulovich  13:06  
Oh, he was an international student.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:08  
He was doing his master.

Evan Franulovich  13:09  
Ah.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:10  
Because it's the easiest way to get the PR.

Evan Franulovich  13:13  
Sure, yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:14  
Green card, the way it would take. He's, they are already citizens in Canada.

Evan Franulovich  13:14  
Now they're Canadians. Where in Canada?

Etzon Gutierrez  13:22  
Edmonton.

Evan Franulovich  13:23  
Oh, they're over in Alberta.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:24  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  13:25  
Ah, okay, so you'd mentioned before we started rolling the tape that you'd been in Victoria.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:30  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  13:31  
So how did, so you went to Edmonton originally?

Etzon Gutierrez  13:33  
Nope, Victoria.

Evan Franulovich  13:34  
Oh, you went straight to Victoria.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:36  
They were in Victoria too.

Evan Franulovich  13:38  
Oh, okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:39  
And they moved to Edmonton, probably three years already.

Evan Franulovich  13:43  
Gotcha, gotcha, yeah. Why did they move from Victoria to Edmonton?

Etzon Gutierrez  13:48  
Victoria, it's a really small city.

Evan Franulovich  13:51  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  13:52  
And there, I think he want, they wanted a clean slate, because they had their own business in Victoria, and there was too many things going on. And in Victoria, there is not a lot of things to do, for example, for my siblings. So they were like, if we go to a bigger city, they have more opportunities, in any way,

Evan Franulovich  14:13  
For sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  14:14  
So they decided to move to Edmonton,

Evan Franulovich  14:16  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  14:17  
And my stepmom, she has family over there. So you're like, I'm done being by myself and just us in Victoria. I need somebody else from time to time. 

Evan Franulovich  14:28  
So is she Canadian?

Etzon Gutierrez  14:30  
No.

Evan Franulovich  14:30  
Oh no, she's from Mexico as well. So you guys went there, to Alberta. Edmonton is kind of a booming town, yeah, lots of things going on.

Etzon Gutierrez  14:39  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  14:40  
And then you went back to Victoria to go to school?

Etzon Gutierrez  14:44  
Yes. So before they went to Alberta, I went to Victoria. I was studying a diploma in cubic Business Administration.

Evan Franulovich  14:53  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  14:54  
And, yeah, but it was just like a certificate of two years. It was an associate degree.

Evan Franulovich  14:59  
Gotcha, gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  14:59  
They call it certificate something.

Evan Franulovich  15:01  
So when you came here, did any of the work you did there transfer? Did you get any transfer credits?

Etzon Gutierrez  15:07  
I could, but I'm doing engineering, right?

Evan Franulovich  15:11  
Oh, yeah. (Inaudible)

Etzon Gutierrez  15:15  
And the last time that I was studying math, physics, or any anything like that. It was 10 years long time. So I was like, I want to go back to everything.

Evan Franulovich  15:26  
Sure. But when you apply to Seattle Colleges, one of the things you got to do is proof of English proficiency. Were you able to do, like, take the English classes that you took in Canada and use that to prove your English proficiency? Or did you end up doing Duolingo or something?

Etzon Gutierrez  15:41  
Because they were already more than two years old.

Evan Franulovich  15:44  
Oh, gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  15:45  
Because there is, we have the time limit of two years.

Evan Franulovich  15:47  
Yes, that's true.

Etzon Gutierrez  15:48  
So I did DLT, Duolingo. DET, Duolingo. English test.

Evan Franulovich  15:52  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  15:53  
Super simple.

Evan Franulovich  15:54  
Super easy. 

Etzon Gutierrez  15:55  
Yes. I had to do it twice, because once my mom was in the back, playing around and making noise. So thank you mom.

Evan Franulovich  16:01  
Don't do that. Sometimes Duolingo will lock you out. So be very careful, quiet room, very focused.

Etzon Gutierrez  16:08  
I did it that way, and it was pretty simple, two hour test, and they have, like, all the try outs that they have for free in there. It's pretty similar to the actual test. 

Evan Franulovich  16:08  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  16:08  
I love that.

Evan Franulovich  16:11  
So check that out. If you guys.

Etzon Gutierrez  16:17  
It's the cheapest one.

Evan Franulovich  16:21  
Yeah. A lot of people always ask about which English proficiency exam they should take.

Etzon Gutierrez  16:27  
If the school accepts Duolingo English test, go for that one. It's the cheapest, the easiest. 

Evan Franulovich  16:32  
Yeah, and it's fast. You'll get your results within a couple days, right?

Etzon Gutierrez  16:36  
Yeah, yeah. And with easiest, that's what I mean, because the English level, it's the same but you can do it in your home. You don't need to be with any, you don't need to go to a specific center to take the test.

Evan Franulovich  16:47  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  16:47  
And you can even pay like 20-30, bucks extra, so you will have your response and your grading in two days or one day instead of five, which also, five, it's not bad at all.

Evan Franulovich  17:01  
Okay, let's talk about then getting from Victoria to Seattle, did you have to go back to Mexico? 

Etzon Gutierrez  17:11  
yep.

Evan Franulovich  17:11  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  17:12  
I was in Mexico for?

Evan Franulovich  17:15  
Oh, that's right, you got booted out of Canada.

Etzon Gutierrez  17:18  
Yeah, it was almost 18 months, almost.

Evan Franulovich  17:23  
So what were you doing in Mexico while you were?

Etzon Gutierrez  17:26  
I was living life.

Evan Franulovich  17:27  
Just living life. 

Etzon Gutierrez  17:28  
I was, I have a business in Mexico and one in Canada, so I was like running those, but I focused a lot on myself. And I was studying more English, because the level of English that I used to have, it was more casual English. And something that I have been noticing here, like when you go through English 102, and classes or courses like that, it's, I don't really know English, the way. Dr Brian, I don't know if you know. Dr Brian Gutierrez, but he speaks beautiful English, another level of English. I don't know English.

Evan Franulovich  18:05  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  18:06  
I can speak, so, yeah, but I was practicing more my English in the sense that I wanted a more formal English, because in Canada, I was running the business. It was a construction business, so it was a lot of day to day basic. And I know a lot of English, and I can read everything, because I have been.

Evan Franulovich  18:25  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  18:25  
English since I was probably three or four years old.

Evan Franulovich  18:27  
It's a long time.

Etzon Gutierrez  18:28  
But definitely, there are so many things that you don't learn in Mexico.

Evan Franulovich  18:33  
Gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  18:33  
Just practicing more and getting ready, and math and, yeah.

Evan Franulovich  18:38  
Cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  18:38  
Myself.

Evan Franulovich  18:39  
So how did you, so you're down there? How did you even hear about Seattle Colleges?

Etzon Gutierrez  18:43  
Oh, that's a pretty good question, because my wife was in Victoria at the time.

Evan Franulovich  18:49  
Yeah,

Etzon Gutierrez  18:49  
And I had an exclusion order from Canada for one year. That means I cannot enter the country for one year. And now I go back and forth pretty often, actually.

Evan Franulovich  19:02  
Just drive over the border. 

Etzon Gutierrez  19:03  
Yeah, and it's super simple to go through and stuff. But for that one year, I was not able, so we were figuring out ways to see each other. And she traveled to Mexico. We travel all around the world. Actually, sometimes we will meet in, once we meet in Paris. Yeah, so it wasn't pretty good.

Evan Franulovich  19:22  
That's a great deal.

Etzon Gutierrez  19:24  
But in November, we were like, what? How are we gonna see each other this time? And I'm like, let me check something. I look for Seattle. Well, like Seattle looks nice. We have never been there. I'll fly to Seattle. You drive to Seattle. We meet there, and then we figure it out.

Evan Franulovich  19:40  
Sure,

Etzon Gutierrez  19:40  
So we did it that way, and I liked Seattle a lot.

Evan Franulovich  19:44  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  19:45  
And I was talking to a school advisor, in Mexico, about options, because my first option was going to go back to Victoria, but now for my civil engineering degree. Or it was any other country. It doesn't matter which one. Which country, but I thought Seattle. It's cool. It's really near to Victoria. So even if my wife wanted to stay in Victoria, we could figure it out. It's way. It's going to be way easier than traveling to Mexico, or me.

Evan Franulovich  20:17  
For sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  20:18  
(Inaudible) way to Seattle. So I start investigating, because a lot of people, at least in Mexico, all those school advisors that help you to travel or to go to school abroad, they didn't know anything about Seattle College. I was surprised. I'm like, What do you mean? They have three community colleges that is actually one at the same time.

Evan Franulovich  20:37  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  20:36  
I was like, how? So when I came the first time I started looking around and then I saw Edmonds college, you know, it's too far away. And then, so I started looking out, and I tried to hire someone to help me, but they didn't know how to do it. So I did it myself through their website. Super simple.

Evan Franulovich  20:46  
Yeah, yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  20:49  
Was pretty simple.

Evan Franulovich  20:59  
I think we actually talked before, yeah, so that was great to see. I always love it talking to students when they're in the application process or investigating, and then eventually we get to meet face. We're a student now. Yes, so cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  21:14  
That's so cool.

Evan Franulovich  21:15  
So you applied, you get accepted pretty fast.

Etzon Gutierrez  21:19  
It was amazing. And my wife is even surprised how things have been going in Seattle, in the sense that I got my second rejection from Canada, and we were like, I talked to her, because my lawyer in Canada, he told me, 'We can probably fix this'. It may take two months to two years. It may take $2,000 to $15,000 that's like a huge difference. So I say there is a no go, and I started looking into Seattle Colleges. I talked to my wife. I explained the situation. She was all in.

Evan Franulovich  22:03  
Oh, cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  22:03  
And when I decided, I'll go through Seattle College, three weeks later, I was already in Seattle with my F1, with everything ready. 

Evan Franulovich  22:13  
That's amazing.

Etzon Gutierrez  22:14  
Yeah, it was pretty fast.

Evan Franulovich  22:16  
Yeah, it was winter. Was your first or was it spring? 

Etzon Gutierrez  22:19  
Spring.

Evan Franulovich  22:19  
Okay, yeah, because I remember we met at orientation.

Etzon Gutierrez  22:21  
Yes.

Evan Franulovich  22:23  
So you got your stuff, but you had to go through a visa interview here. That was in Mexico?

Etzon Gutierrez  22:30  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  22:31  
So you had to travel. Or is there a consulate in Guadalajara?

Etzon Gutierrez  22:33  
There is a consulate in Guadalajara, and it was in that one, actually.

Evan Franulovich  22:37  
Oh, you did, okay, that's good to know. So how long did it take for you to get your appointment? Because just because you have your I-20 doesn't mean you can just run down and take your interview.

Etzon Gutierrez  22:46  
It was between seven days to 10 days.

Evan Franulovich  22:49  
Oh, that's very fast. 

Etzon Gutierrez  22:49  
It was really fast.

Evan Franulovich  22:51  
I mean, I know some countries, you know, they have to wait four months and get an appointment.

Etzon Gutierrez  22:55  
It was really fast.

Evan Franulovich  22:57  
Cool. Did you just go in and wing it, or did you prepare before you go in? I mean, how did you?

Etzon Gutierrez  23:06  
I prepare a little bit in the sense that when, I have always had a V1-V2 Visa, and I used to come to the U.S. once every yeae, my grandfather and my grandmother used to bring me to Disneyland. Family in LA. So they were like in Tijuana, which is

Evan Franulovich  23:24  
Right there.

Etzon Gutierrez  23:24  
By the water. So I have always been able to enter the U.S. But I prepared in the sense that I knew they were going to ask about the Canada situation. 

Evan Franulovich  23:34  
Oh, okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  23:35  
Because when you are filing the process, DS-160 I think is the name. When you're filling out that form, there is a question that, have you ever had any trouble or rejections from any other country? And I said yes, so I prepared in that sense, by putting the proper words, because if you say a different word than the one that you, because they were like, 'Oh, you were rejected from Canada', or you were, it's not expelled, but 'You have exclusion order from Canada. Why?'. 'Oh, the reason is this one', and it's all about, I don't even remember the word right now, but it was like, it's a problem with immigration and paperwork, nothing else.

Evan Franulovich  24:20  
Like, you didn't break any laws, or?

Etzon Gutierrez  24:22  
Exactly. So at the moment, and there's a full process, or it was a full process, because when I, when they let me know, I was like, I can take off right now with my stuff and go. And they were like, 'No, no, no. Take your time.' (Inaudible). In the end, the Canadians are so lovely. 'Take your time. You have one month'.

Evan Franulovich  24:39  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  24:39  
'Can you figure it out in a month?', and I'm like, 'Probably two weeks', 'Take a month, and then you can leave'. They're so nice, but, yeah, so, but yes. So I prepared in that sense, not in the other sense of, 'Oh, what I'm gonna say?'. Because I already knew I'm going to study. Like.

Evan Franulovich  24:57  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  24:57  
It's simple.

Evan Franulovich  24:58  
Yeah. So when you get there, do they end up asking you about it?

Etzon Gutierrez  25:03  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  25:03  
Oh, they did, okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  25:04  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  25:04  
It wasn't like you worried about it, and then they just didn't even ask you.

Etzon Gutierrez  25:08  
No, I was worried about it.

Evan Franulovich  25:10  
Okay, sure enough.

Etzon Gutierrez  25:12  
And they asked about it. And I was about to take my (inaudible), when they were asking, funny enough, they were like, 'I can see that you have this situation in Canada. What happened?', and I'm like, 'Oh, this situation happened in which I had to leave'. I follow all the instructions, orders, and I did everything. How they asked me in the moment, that I was aware of the situation. 'Oh, okay, good'. Why did you go to Canada. 'Oh, I went to study'. 'Oh, nice'. 'Did you finish your your program?', I'm like, 'No, I didn't finish my program'. They were like, 'Oh, okay, okay. Did you study here in Mexico and all that?' Yeah, I did. I studied here in Mexico. Oh, did you finish no. And I'm like, that's two nos back to back. And I'm asking them permission.

Evan Franulovich  26:01  
I know, right.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:01  
To come and study. So I were like, This doesn't look good. But then I was like, I didn't finish in Mexico because we didn't have the funds at the time like to finish. So if that helps. But then the immigration officer, he was like, give me one second. And he went out and he was walking and talking, and then he came back, and he like, give me one second, and he went back again. So I'm like, can I take my passport and just leave with a little dignity, because it was two straight nos about what I'm.

Evan Franulovich  26:33  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:34  
coming to do right. Then, surprisingly, surprising. He arrived. He went like, yeah, good luck.

Evan Franulovich  26:42  
Wow.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:43  
I'm like, wow.

Evan Franulovich  26:45  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:45  
Oh, that was amazing. I remember that I ran out of the consulate and I talked to my wife, and they were like, it's a done deal.

Evan Franulovich  26:54  
That's really cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:55  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  26:56  
Scary.

Etzon Gutierrez  26:56  
Yeah, really scary. 

Evan Franulovich  26:58  
So then, after you got that visa, how long before you got on a plane to come to Seattle?

Etzon Gutierrez  27:04  
Two weeks.

Evan Franulovich  27:05  
Oh, it's only two weeks.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:06  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  27:06  
So that was really fast.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:07  
I started applying, last day. No, yeah, last day of January of last year.

Evan Franulovich  27:14  
Oh, no wonder, okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:16  
And I arrived, like January 31st and I arrived in Seattle March 6th. So just to put it in perspective.

Evan Franulovich  27:23  
Wow, that's really fast.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:25  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  27:25  
And, but if you're a listener, and this is not the way we prefer you do it, because that's a really tight time frame.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:31  
Yeah, it was really tight.

Evan Franulovich  27:33  
It can be done.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:35  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  27:35  
But this is not the normal.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:37  
Chances to be able, I will probably. I'm going to need to wait to summer or even fall.

Evan Franulovich  27:41  
Right, right.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:42  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  27:43  
But that's great we got you here and you get started. So you take the plane, you pack up. I mean, just pack up a couple suitcases.

Etzon Gutierrez  27:51  
Yes.

Evan Franulovich  27:51  
What'd you do for housing when you got off the plane? Where, did you have a place waiting for you? Or what'd you do?

Etzon Gutierrez  27:56  
Yes, but it was so hard. Housing was a really, really, really problem for me, and I think that for a lot of international students, because when you're looking from other parts of the world, 3000 miles away, at least, because Mexico, it's one of the nearest countries. So I don't want to imagine anyone else from across the pond, right? So I started looking and applying to places. First of all, in a lot of, Canada and Mexico, they do not charge any money for applications.

Evan Franulovich  28:32  
I know.

Etzon Gutierrez  28:32  
Here they do. So I would like, I'm not gonna apply to too many places and just lose.

Evan Franulovich  28:38  
It's a lot of money.

Etzon Gutierrez  28:39  
On it, yeah. So I applied to two places, and they were like, no,

Evan Franulovich  28:43  
Both of them?

Etzon Gutierrez  28:44  
Yes. The reason for that, mean, it's not even money wise. It's because they're looking for a social which I don't have.  

Evan Franulovich  28:50  
A social security card?

Etzon Gutierrez  28:52  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  28:52  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  28:53  
And, or what's the name? Credit score?

Evan Franulovich  28:57  
Oh, sure, yeah. Credit score.

Etzon Gutierrez  28:59  
I'm not in, at that time, I was not even in the U.S. How am I supposed to have a credit score or a social?

Evan Franulovich  29:05  
Right, right.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:05  
So it was really hard. And something that I have noticed is that they really asked for that stuff.

Evan Franulovich  29:10  
Yes.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:11  
But then I started looking inat Zillow, Facebook markets and Redfin for rooms. 

Evan Franulovich  29:18  
Oh, there you go.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:19  
Okay, it's too hard to get an apartment, because I was looking for an apartment. Let's get a room.

Evan Franulovich  29:25  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:26  
Funny enough, I got one from Zillow, right across of this school. I used to walk eight minutes to get here. I just moved to an apartment a few months ago, but I was renting a room. It was a Mexican girl. She was super nice. She's really good friend, and she helped me a lot, in so many ways. So it was really good. But when I was landing in my airplane, I had not paid a deposit or a months rent, anything. So I was afraid, if I had for real, a place to sleep.

Evan Franulovich  29:26  
You were just, show up and knock.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:27  
What if she doesn't exist? Because.

Evan Franulovich  29:50  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  29:51  
(inaudible) In Facebook marketing, there is a lot of scammers.

Evan Franulovich  30:15  
Be very careful.

Etzon Gutierrez  30:16  
Yeah, do not send money this way. And I'm like, how do I even send an international transfer when I don't even know. 

Evan Franulovich  30:22  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  30:23  
So it was difficult.

Evan Franulovich  30:25  
It's a little bit stressful.

Etzon Gutierrez  30:25  
I was so blessed in the sense that she was real, she was super nice. She was, yeah, she helped me in a lot of ways. So.

Evan Franulovich  30:33  
Yeah, yeah, if you're out there and you may have already been accepted and you're looking for housing in Seattle, be careful. There are a lot. I mean, just like anywhere in the world, there are bad people out there, and they may scam you for money. So, you know, you can work with number of different things, like Zillow is pretty reputable. I think.

Etzon Gutierrez  30:52  
Yes, it's good, but the aim, even in Zillow, you need to be careful. And right now, I'm the student body president here at North. We're even having conversations about how we can help international students to get housing, they're safe and even to see, because Central has housing. It's a little bit expensive, but they have housing, and they go through the process in the sense that you don't need to show credit score, you don't need to show your social security number, so that helps, but.

Evan Franulovich  31:21  
For sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  31:21  
What are other ways in which we can help international students to find a place and they're not scammed. So I think that there are so many ways, but we're just trying to figure out the best one.

Evan Franulovich  31:31  
Sure, yeah, just so you guys know there's really three ways you can get housing if you come to seattlecolleges, we do have student housing at our central campus, and if you're a North student, you could actually live there. It's really close, via the subway. So student housing is one way some people do homestay program. We have agencies that students work with, that's a really reputable way to get housing, even if it's just short-term, until you can find your own apartment, and then, of course, finding a place off campus, like a room or an apartment or whatever. So now you found an apartment. Is it close to North?

Etzon Gutierrez  32:06  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  32:07  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  32:07  
It's in Northgate, actually. But no, walking, it's like 25 minutes, which is not bad at all. But driving, it seven.

Evan Franulovich  32:14  
So you have a car. Do you, if you walk, do you have to come over the bridge?

Etzon Gutierrez  32:19  
Yes, but yeah, I have to, if I want to, because you know, where it's, Northgate Mall.

Evan Franulovich  32:26  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  32:26  
I live in the other end.

Evan Franulovich  32:28  
Oh, so it's quite a ways.

Etzon Gutierrez  32:30  
Yeah, it's, I don't know if you know, where the 24 fitness is, but just besides the 24 fitness.

Evan Franulovich  32:35  
Gotcha so not too far away, which is great. And from what I understand, if you're a North student, there's quite a bit of housing around the area, but sometimes it is challenging. If you don't have a social security card or a credit score.

Etzon Gutierrez  32:46  
It's not that there is no places, it's that it's hard for you to get it.

Evan Franulovich  32:50  
Yeah, it's true. Yeah. But of course, having time is always helpful. The more time you have, the more you can react and have wiggle room if you need to. Well, cool. All right, so you got here, you got into your housing, and then you went through orientation. Can you kind of tell students what they should expect at orientation? Because not only has he been through orientation, but now you're starting to actually deliver orientation.

Etzon Gutierrez  33:18  
True. So what they're going to expect in orientation. I think it's the basis and the foundation for all the information that you're going to need to be here in Seattle. How to take the subway, how does the public transportation works? Housing, school, all the.

Evan Franulovich  33:37  
Insurance.

Etzon Gutierrez  33:38  
Insurance, which is really important.

Evan Franulovich  33:40  
Super important.

Etzon Gutierrez  33:41  
And also immigration laws, what's happening right now, which there's a lot of things happening in the U.S., so you need to be aware about everything. And I think that it's too much information to actually be able to understand everything. 

Evan Franulovich  33:55  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  33:56  
At least for me, there were a few things that during the day of orientation, I didn't catch it. Yeah, it was a lot of things that I was like, 'Okay'. And then I talked to Mike, and he helped me with the insurance. And then I talked to Shun, and he helped me with the advising. So there is so many things that you don't actually need to understand at that time, but you just need to know that they exist.

Evan Franulovich  34:18  
Exactly.

Etzon Gutierrez  34:19  
And that you can use, and that there are all the international ambassadors and your advisors, Evan, everyone is here to help. So if you have any question about it, we're more than happy to help you out, because it's, I always tell this story, even though they explain so many things. The first time that I took the light rail.

Evan Franulovich  34:19  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  34:20  
I didn't know where to pay, so I didn't pay. And I was like, 'Oh no, I'm so sorry. Where do I pay?', I don't want to get trapped because I didn't pay.

Evan Franulovich  34:47  
It's a little confusing, and it's, I've done light rail or subways all over the world, and it's different everywhere you go.

Etzon Gutierrez  34:54  
Yes, also, yeah.

Evan Franulovich  34:56  
Totally understand what you're saying.

Etzon Gutierrez  34:57  
So, but I would like, I don't want to be seen. There are cameras everywhere. 

Evan Franulovich  35:01  
(Inaudible).

Etzon Gutierrez  35:02  
I'm like, 'I can pay, just let me know where'.

Evan Franulovich  35:06  
Not a problem.

Etzon Gutierrez  35:07  
So, but it was funny, because nobody tells you where to pay. It's, here you get your ticket, or here you get your Orca Card.

Evan Franulovich  35:14  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  35:15  
And then you follow the stairs and you get to the train. And I was expecting, like, in Canada or in Europe. In Europe, in a lot of places you pay when you're getting into the trade, they have the same thing that they have outside. They have it inside of the train, and that's what I was expecting, but they didn't have it. 

Evan Franulovich  35:31  
When you get here, you need to use light rail. You can talk to us. We'll help you out. It's not a problem.

Etzon Gutierrez  35:36  
We know how to use it. 

Evan Franulovich  35:37  
It's very easy. Don't panic. That's cool. All right, so you got housing, has your wife come down to visit you? Did she just come down regularly then?

Etzon Gutierrez  35:49  
She used to come twice a month, or at least once a month.

Evan Franulovich  35:54  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  35:55  
But in December, she decided to come and stay here.

Evan Franulovich  36:00  
So now she's here permanently?

Etzon Gutierrez  36:01  
Yeah, and that's why, actually, we found an apartment, because we had to.

Evan Franulovich  36:01  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  36:01  
She used to have the two cats in the apartment in Canada, so, but I was like, we're not getting a room and leaving the two of us plus two cats, so we'll find an apartment.

Evan Franulovich  36:15  
All right. So how did you meet your wife?

Etzon Gutierrez  36:18  
Canada.

Evan Franulovich  36:19  
I know this is, oh, you met her in Canada.

Etzon Gutierrez  36:21  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  36:22  
But she's from Mexico, yeah?

Etzon Gutierrez  36:23  
Yes, but not from the same city.

Evan Franulovich  36:25  
Oh, she's not from Guadalajara.

Etzon Gutierrez  36:26  
She's from Queretaro, which is two hours drive from Mexico City.

Evan Franulovich  36:30  
Cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  36:30  
But funny enough, we were in the same program in Canada, and she was dating someone from Mexico. I was dating someone from Mexico too. And we started hanging out as a friends, as a big group of friends. And then we started liking each other. And I had to tell to the person that I was dating, like, 'Hey, I'm so sorry, but this isn't working'. And she did the same. And then we started dating. And it was really weird, because one month after that, we started living together.

Evan Franulovich  37:04  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  37:04  
And she went, like, why? Yeah, I was, if it's gonna work, it's gonna work. And if not, we're gonna know really soon here, that it doesn't work. Six years have been going by.

Evan Franulovich  37:14  
Wow.

Etzon Gutierrez  37:15  
Five, five to six years, something like that. 

Evan Franulovich  37:17  
That's cool. 

Etzon Gutierrez  37:17  
Yeah, so.

Evan Franulovich  37:19  
Wow.

Etzon Gutierrez  37:19  
It's working out.

Evan Franulovich  37:20  
It's working out. That's great. So she's here. What she doing in the meantime? She's, you said, volunteering, which is great.

Etzon Gutierrez  37:28  
She's volunteering a lot with the church that we go to. We have, some of the things that I wanted to do when I arrived in Seattle, and because it was so many things that happened at that time. I was raised Catholic, so I changed to Christian, Christianity, and it was funny enough, a decision that I made in Seattle, in two trips, before coming, and the person, when I found that my room actually exists, she invited me to the church. I love the church, so everything aligned perfectly. 

Evan Franulovich  38:01  
That's cool. 

Etzon Gutierrez  38:02  
Yeah, so we go to a Christian church in Bellevue, and she volunteers a lot there, and that's what she's doing. And she's also thinking of studying an associate degree in pre nursing, because in Mexico she's a physical therapist.

Evan Franulovich  38:15  
Oh, perfect.

Etzon Gutierrez  38:16  
And in Canada, she has a business degree. Oh, not degree, but associate.

Evan Franulovich  38:21  
That sounds really great actually, good fit, cool. All right. Well, let's just talk about your classes. So far, you've been taking some classes.

Etzon Gutierrez  38:31  
Yes.

Evan Franulovich  38:32  
Engineering classes. Is it what you expected for one, like being in the classroom, the delivery of the material?

Etzon Gutierrez  38:41  
Yes, it is. And I don't know if, I don't even want to say harder, because what I was expecting was really like to be really, really hard, but it is. In most of the classes, something that I have noticed human class, like humanitarian classes and stuff like that, they're pretty simple because they are supposed to, and it's more about your expectations. What do you feel about this? How? What do you, what's your perspective of this? But that doesn't happen in engineering.

Evan Franulovich  39:10  
No, no.

Etzon Gutierrez  39:11  
(Inaudible). So right now, I'm taking chemistry. It's an accelerated course that instead of three months or 11 weeks, it's in four weeks. So I'm dying, but I'm holding in there. 

Evan Franulovich  39:30  
Why are you trying to do it so fast?

Etzon Gutierrez  39:32  
First, because Shun my advisor suggested, which it's great, the idea, it's amazing. It's actually something that I will love to do, but because it was two classes in one quarter, so chemistry 139 and then chemistry 161 in one quarter, which that's amazing, but it's time consuming and working have, I have two jobs in school, so I think that I'm only going to be able to do chemistry 139, but in one month. So week one, it's gone, three weeks more, and then I finish that class, and then I keep going with two classes, which is going to work perfectly for me. But definitely it's a lot of time, the time that you need to do for that specific class, I have been working probably 25 hours a week just in that class.

Evan Franulovich  40:22  
Yeah, because it's labs too, right? It's not just reading the book. It's doing stuff.

Etzon Gutierrez  40:26  
It's books, it's labs, it's learning, it's lecture, online and in-person, and just in-person, it's more than seven hours a week. 

Evan Franulovich  40:37  
Wow. Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  40:38  
So, yes, it's tough, but I'm loving every single bit.

Evan Franulovich  40:43  
Oh, that's great.

Etzon Gutierrez  40:44  
Math classes, everything, because something really important. Say, I was not a scholar, never, never, school, and myself, I would, like, I consider myself an educated person, but not a scholarly person.

Evan Franulovich  40:58  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  40:59  
So I love to read books. I love to learn stuff, but I was all my life. I was struggling with school, but I decided to take this part of my life or this new opportunity, with all seriousness and showing that it doesn't matter if you, because I'm studying engineer, because I used to be absolutely bad at math, that's why I decided to do engineering, which I.

Evan Franulovich  41:26  
Which is a funny choice.

Etzon Gutierrez  41:27  
Yeah, I wouldn't suggest to a lot of people. 

Evan Franulovich  41:29  
I think it's great.

Etzon Gutierrez  41:30  
But right now, I'm doing amazingly, like my GPA, 3.90

Evan Franulovich  41:34  
It's awesome, yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  41:35  
3.98, which is almost.

Evan Franulovich  41:37  
That's amazing.

Etzon Gutierrez  41:39  
But, and I think it's doable. It's pretty doable. I'm loving everything, but you really need to spend time, invest more time, than you actually expect to do. And because, also you're learning a lot of things in a different language, it's not only learning new stuff, it's also in a different language.

Evan Franulovich  42:00  
Yeah, chemistry is one thing, but then chemistry and a second language, that's a big challenge.

Etzon Gutierrez  42:01  
And even math, so many things that in Spanish, we call it somehow. And then here you will say, like, 'Oh, you just translate'. But no, it doesn't work. It's a completely different word, but I'm loving it.

Evan Franulovich  42:16  
That's great. That's really cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  42:18  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  42:19  
So let's talk just quickly, because you mentioned working. Students want to work while they're here, you have two jobs. So tell us about your jobs that you found here, how you found them.

Etzon Gutierrez  42:34  
I think it was first day after orientation, like not first day of school, orientation is one week before classes.

Evan Franulovich  42:45  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  42:46  
And the next day, I came early to school, and I started asking everywhere. How to get a job, everywhere. So, because I asked at IP, and they mentioned, we know about the jobs in IP Office. We don't know about student leadership. We don't know about library. We don't know about the Wellness Center. We don't know about like, child care. We don't know about anywhere else. So tutoring center, because there are so many places in which you can get a job, but you need to look for the job.

Evan Franulovich  43:20  
Yes.

Etzon Gutierrez  43:21  
And I start asking everyone. And I start asking constantly, not only that day, because that day I went and talked to Berlin, which is the Director of Student Leadership, the day of orientation. I talked with Sancha about being an international ambassador. So I started talking with everyone, like, how can I get a job? At some point I was even, I was even going to apply to be front desk at IP, but then I got accepted as the president. So like, 'Okay, this is, this is enough for now'. Then I got the opportunity to become an international ambassador. And I said, yes.

Evan Franulovich  43:58  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  43:58  
And I'm just loving, but definitely you need to ask, and you need to do, how can we say, to show yourself and expose yourself, to know new people and meet new people, and that way, it's the only way that people, it's gonna know that you're looking for a job,

Evan Franulovich  44:15  
Right right.

Etzon Gutierrez  44:16  
mean, the moment there's something going on, they're gonna let you know,

Evan Franulovich  44:19  
Right right.

Etzon Gutierrez  44:19  
So.

Evan Franulovich  44:20  
Yeah, I get asked all the time from students, can they find work on campus? The answer is yes, but it does take work, and it takes persistence and, but it works. Just keep at it. It'll happen eventually.

Etzon Gutierrez  44:32  
Because a lot, I know a few people on campus that have two jobs.

Evan Franulovich  44:37  
Yes.

Etzon Gutierrez  44:38  
International students. But you're gonna see that those international students are the ones that are everywhere.

Evan Franulovich  44:43  
They're everywhere, exactly.

Etzon Gutierrez  44:45  
So that's, it's not because the job appeared in front of them. So they go and they get it.

Evan Franulovich  44:51  
So international ambassador is a great job to have, because you become networked with so many different people. Tell everybody about being an international ambassador.

Etzon Gutierrez  45:00  
Yeah, international ambassador. It's great. 

Evan Franulovich  45:04  
It is pretty cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  45:05  
It's pretty cool.

Evan Franulovich  45:06  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  45:06  
You have a lot of fun. You connect with a lot of people. You  constantly meet new people. And it's everything about making an amazing experience for all those new international students.

Evan Franulovich  45:19  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  45:20  
Which is something I said, you're serving them and you were in their shoes not so long ago.

Evan Franulovich  45:25  
Not too long ago.

Etzon Gutierrez  45:26  
So give all the information and give all the welcoming that you received, or that you would love to receive. That's the way that I see it, but that's, that's what we're trying to do, like in the international ambassador office. It's about making the experience amazing.

Evan Franulovich  45:46  
Right. 

Etzon Gutierrez  45:46  
Unforgettable. And we do events through all the year. We do we have orientation, we help you as much as possible. We have peer link, which is time to hang out, ask questions. We'll guide you in the questions that we know and we're able to say, but a lot of the times, that's going to be with your advisor.

Evan Franulovich  46:06  
Connect them to that person.

Etzon Gutierrez  46:07  
But we're going to be able to direct you to wherever you need to go.

Evan Franulovich  46:10  
Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  46:10  
And that's something that I love. 

Evan Franulovich  46:12  
Yeah, I like what he said about orientation, because that's a real thing. He said that it's overwhelming. There's a lot of information, so don't come to orientation thinking you're gonna have it all memorized and stuff you'll get exposed to this stuff, and you'll have to review it again and again. You'll have to ask questions and stuff. But I think one of the really powerful things about orientation is not so much the information you get, but the people you meet. So the networking, especially with the International ambassadors, you get to find people that are plugged in already to the community. So, it's really cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  46:41  
Yeah, yeah, that's actually super helpful.

Evan Franulovich  46:43  
The other thing I want to focus on, because I get asked regularly in the places that I travel is, do you have to be just out of high school to become a student in the United States? The great thing about community colleges, if we take people from all ages, you are a non traditional student.

Etzon Gutierrez  47:00  
I am.

Evan Franulovich  47:00  
you can tell maybe the listeners a little bit about your experience being a non traditional student. You're in class with maybe 18 year old students.

Etzon Gutierrez  47:09  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  47:10  
What's that like?

Etzon Gutierrez  47:12  
I think that I have the blessing that I don't look that old. 

Evan Franulovich  47:15  
It's true.

Etzon Gutierrez  47:16  
Because I'm about to turn 30 tomorrow.

Evan Franulovich  47:19  
Wow. Happy birthday. Happy birthday tomorrow. Wow,

Etzon Gutierrez  47:23  
That's cool, but I don't look 30 at all.

Evan Franulovich  47:25  
No.

Etzon Gutierrez  47:26  
Or that's what they say. But something that I have noticed, because my first day I was I was really, really concerned about my age situation. I'm like, I'm 29 I'm coming with 17 old students. This is gonna be weird, different language. I don't know a lot of the jokes that it's happening right now, but it was surprising that you will see all ages.

Evan Franulovich  47:54  
All ages.

Etzon Gutierrez  47:55  
All ages. I have a lot of really good friends, my best friend here at school, he's 32 and I met him in English 101 and he was born and raised here in Seattle. So I was surprised because he was the first person that I was interacting with. I have a lot of friends, 25, 18. I know a person and you probably know her. She's 16, and she's already about to finish her associate degree.

Evan Franulovich  48:22  
That's wild.

Etzon Gutierrez  48:23  
So it's, I'm surprised, but you will find a lot of people from any type of age. I have some peers in math class that are 55-65 and I even admire them.

Evan Franulovich  48:39  
Absolutely.

Etzon Gutierrez  48:40  
Because  are trying, and you will see, 'Oh, I studied this when I was young, but now I want to change careers'. Wow, I love that.

Evan Franulovich  48:48  
It's so cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  48:48  
It's never too late, for sure, and you will see how passionate they are. And I think that the older you get, also it helps a lot to focus on different things, because now you can discern which. Because I used to just go partying and go with friends and hanging out instead of actually paying attention to class. So that's something that really changed my perspective, those years of experience definitely helped me, and that's why I think that I'm a really good student, because I'm here to study, so it helps, and you learn about everyone. Like also, I have really good friends that are 18, 19, 20, and you'll learn so many things. So I love that.

Evan Franulovich  49:27  
That's really cool. And if you're a younger person, it's great to go to school with people who are a little older, because they have this life experience that you don't have. They can share it with you. It's really great. So if you're out there wondering, I'm a little bit older, is it too late for me to go to school? The answer in the United States anyways, Absolutely not. 

Etzon Gutierrez  49:43  
Never.

Evan Franulovich  49:43  
Come reinvent yourself, further your education, do whatever you want to do. It's really great way to do it. A lot of the nursing students we have that come from overseas. A lot of them, they're in their 40s.

Etzon Gutierrez  49:55  
Yes.

Evan Franulovich  49:55  
So and some of them even have kids already. You know, they bring their kids with them. It's. Pretty wild. So yeah, don't worry, guys.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:02  
Very good.

Evan Franulovich  50:03  
Yeah. So we're running low on time here. But I just want to ask real fast, any scholarships, or is it too early for you? You just started last spring.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:13  
I applied. 

Evan Franulovich  50:14  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:15  
One that.

Evan Franulovich  50:17  
Foundation?

Etzon Gutierrez  50:18  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  50:18  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:18  
But I was not even a student, and I was not even accepted yet.

Evan Franulovich  50:22  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:22  
You're able to you apply but I don't know if the chances, because, for me, it will make a lot of sense that.

Evan Franulovich  50:30  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:30  
Oh, it's actually for students, or we're more focused about already enrolled students.

Evan Franulovich  50:36  
Right, right.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:37  
Then you, that you're not even, I haven't even, I was at that time, probably emailing with you (inaudible). Now I'm not sure who, but I was emailing just with IP at the time.

Evan Franulovich  50:46  
Gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:47  
When I applied, and I got rejected, of course, but I'm gonna apply again, and I also apply for all the ones with PTK that applies for international students. 

Evan Franulovich  50:57  
Perfect.

Etzon Gutierrez  50:57  
So there are a lot of opportunities even for international students.

Evan Franulovich  51:01  
Absolutely.

Etzon Gutierrez  51:01  
The chances like, of course, it's not as good for us, for the international students, but there are a lot of opportunities. And if you're a good student, you're going to be able to apply to the foundation from Seattle Colleges. I have heard from so many people that they got it, and they got a really good scholarship. So it works.

Evan Franulovich  51:20  
It works. 

Etzon Gutierrez  51:21  
Yeah. 

Evan Franulovich  51:21  
In fact, right now the door is opening. This is the month of January, and that's when our Foundation Scholarship becomes available. So even if you're overseas and you haven't even got here yet, please apply. 

Etzon Gutierrez  51:32  
You can apply.

Evan Franulovich  51:33  
I know a lot of students who haven't even arrived in the states who have gotten that scholarship. So when they arrive, let's say they start in the fall, that money is waiting for them when they get here. So that's great. So cool. He also mentioned PTK. For those of you who haven't listened to my many other podcasts, we've talked about PTK. What is PTK?

Etzon Gutierrez  51:52  
PTK, it's an honor society in which they recognize that you are, I don't know how to say, but high achiever, or you are.

Evan Franulovich  52:02  
Great student.

Etzon Gutierrez  52:03  
Great student, thank you. Let's put it that, in those words. And also, here at North we have NSLS.

Evan Franulovich  52:10  
That's true.

Etzon Gutierrez  52:10  
The National Society of Leadership and Success.

Evan Franulovich  52:14  
Yes.

Etzon Gutierrez  52:15  
And I should know, because I'm the president of that (inaudible).

Evan Franulovich  52:17  
Well, you're the first student I've had. Then I think that can talk about that. So Phi, Theta, Kappa is PTK, that's what it stands for.

Etzon Gutierrez  52:19  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  52:20  
Great organization. It's not just about maybe some money opportunities, but there's a lot of other great things.

Etzon Gutierrez  52:32  
So many things going.

Evan Franulovich  52:32  
But I haven't talked to anybody who's a member of NSLS, yeah, yeah. So maybe let's take this opportunity to tell people what it is, how they can get in and why they might want to join. 

Etzon Gutierrez  52:43  
Yeah, NSLS is another honor society similar to what PTK is doing, but this one is way newer. With that, a lot of updates came in how the system works nowadays, in the sense that it is going to be mostly online, but they bring in speakers and they have even brought in Oprah.

Evan Franulovich  53:03  
What?

Etzon Gutierrez  53:05  
They have already had three former presidents from the U.S. They had Matthew McConaughey, like people in any aspect or any industry, Bill Gates. They already have three or four billionaires there. And they come, they speak. They speak, most of the times are online, but they also have events in-person. I have never been in an in-person event because I just became member last quarter, but it's the newer version. And I think both great. Both are great. PTK, it's great. And PTK has a lot of name already, because it has been out there a long time. NSLS, it's a newer thing. A lot of people is, does this actually exist or it's a scam? It's not a scam. It's amazing. And if you want to learn from really successful people in different areas, you should join all the broadcasts that they have, and they invite member, they invite important people, and that they will talk about their experience. And the other day, I saw one from Maxwell. What's the last name? Something Maxwell? He created, he wrote, probably six books.

Evan Franulovich  54:13  
Are you talking about?

Etzon Gutierrez  54:14  
Maxwell.

Evan Franulovich  54:15  
He wrote tipping point.

Etzon Gutierrez  54:17  
Yes. 

Evan Franulovich  54:17  
And.

Etzon Gutierrez  54:18  
He's amazing.

Evan Franulovich  54:19  
Yes. 

Etzon Gutierrez  54:19  
So, and you will see so many people, I think even Jeff Bezos has been there. Bill Gates has has been there. So they wait to see their perspective and learn from them. And a lot of the time, they will allow two or three students to ask questions to them directly, like in live.

Evan Franulovich  54:38  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  54:39  
So that's just amazing. And you learn, and they have a lot of things. They also have, like, classes in the same way that you will have student leadership. There is Leadership 101, Leadership 201, and they have all the way to 301, or something like that. But those are credits that are going to be valid in some universities.

Evan Franulovich  54:39  
Oh, really?

Etzon Gutierrez  54:39  
But yeah, just having a certificate in leadership that's good enough, that's gonna help you in your life, and you're gonna learn so many things, and not in every country, because in Mexico, it's not as valuable. Or yeah, here in the U.S. they value a lot, all the leadership skills, how to talk, how to behave with people, even if you don't think the same things.

Evan Franulovich  55:25  
Right.

Etzon Gutierrez  55:25  
So here leadership, it's really, really, really valued. So being able to be in those programs, it gives you a lot of weight on your resume. So do it if you have the opportunity.

Evan Franulovich  55:36  
Yeah, and NSLS is only here at North so if you're thinking, which campus should I apply to, if this is something that's kind of important to you, North is the campus you'd want to apply to. Phi Theta Kappa is at all three campuses, so that's not a problem. But NSLs is only here, and they do have scholarships and awards ranging from $500 to $7,500 totaling over almost half a million dollars a year. So it's a really great place to get a lot of great skills and maybe get some scholarships.

Etzon Gutierrez  56:10  
And you apply only once, and you're applying for so many scholarships. So that's really nice.

Evan Franulovich  56:14  
Very cool. Check that out. We're getting to the end now but oh, did you hear that? It's Trivia Time. All right. This is the part of the show where we ask you five questions. If you get them, all right, you're on our wall of fame. If you miss one, you'll be shamed endlessly by your peers. All right. So question number one, you've been in Seattle now for a little while, and you're definitely involved in the student body. So you must know quite a bit about Seattle.

Etzon Gutierrez  56:38  
I hope.

Evan Franulovich  56:39  
We have this great baseball team here in the city of Seattle. They went to the playoffs. What is the name of our team?

Etzon Gutierrez  56:45  
The Mariners.

Evan Franulovich  56:46  
The Mariners.

Etzon Gutierrez  56:48  
So good.

Evan Franulovich  56:49  
Very good.

Etzon Gutierrez  56:50  
Was pretty good. 

Evan Franulovich  56:50  
Any Mexican players on the team?

Etzon Gutierrez  56:53  
I'm not sure. I haven't checked, to be honest. 

Evan Franulovich  56:56  
Okay.

Etzon Gutierrez  56:57  
Probably.

Evan Franulovich  56:57  
All right. Next, this year, in fact, 2026 we host the World Cup here. We're one of the many cities. Mexico is going to be here, maybe?

Etzon Gutierrez  57:08  
They're not in Seattle.

Evan Franulovich  57:09  
Not in Seattle, unless they go on. What do you think their chances are? You big soccer fan?

Etzon Gutierrez  57:16  
Not as big as any other Mexican. Oh, goodness to the Mexican average. I'm way below.

Evan Franulovich  57:21  
You're way below. 

Etzon Gutierrez  57:22  
But I follow them, and we normally get at least three, four games. So we may be able to be somewhere in the U.S., I'm not sure, but yeah.

Evan Franulovich  57:33  
Very cool.

Etzon Gutierrez  57:33  
Let's hope we have a chance.

Evan Franulovich  57:35  
Yeah, all right. Question number two, earlier, you'd said that you really love mountains, so we have a number of mountains in the area. What is the largest mountain in the state of Washington?

Etzon Gutierrez  57:45  
Rainier.

Evan Franulovich  57:46  
Mount Rainier. Great. Yeah. It is a national park as well. You can go there and visit.

Etzon Gutierrez  57:51  
Beautiful and you can see it from a lot of points. Oh, yeah.

Evan Franulovich  57:55  
Yeah. On a clear day, it's unbelievable. It's very huge, very big. All right. Great. Question number three, if I want to go to Canada as an international student, can I just drive across the border?

Etzon Gutierrez  58:07  
No.

Evan Franulovich  58:09  
How does it work?

Etzon Gutierrez  58:10  
No, and that depends a lot on where you're from.

Evan Franulovich  58:13  
This is true.

Etzon Gutierrez  58:14  
It depends a lot where you're from, because being Mexican, before you were able to drive just with an ETA, which is an electronic travel authorization. But now you can still have that one, but it's only flying, so you need to have another visa, which is a tourist visa.

Evan Franulovich  58:15  
Gotcha.

Etzon Gutierrez  58:16  
As a Mexican, every country, it's completely different. So that's something that you will need to check. Because I don't want to, I don't want to say.

Evan Franulovich  58:39  
Yeah, yeah. But question number three is about what do the students have to do with their I-20 before they go?

Etzon Gutierrez  58:48  
You need to get your I-20 signed before you go anywhere outside of the U.S., even if you go to my even when I go to Mexico, even though I'm from Mexico, I need to get my I-20 signed by my advisor, or someone that has the power be able to do it. So in this case, Mike also he was able to sign my and you're going to be able to travel for one year, and every single year you need to get a new signature.

Evan Franulovich  59:13  
Right now, this brings us to question four. There is a person who can sign that, and they have a three letter designation. What is the name of those people that can sign that I-20?

Etzon Gutierrez  59:25  
This one, it's hard.

Evan Franulovich  59:27  
Oh, no, I thought for sure. 

Etzon Gutierrez  59:29  
But I.

Evan Franulovich  59:29  
Because we talk about it during orientation, a lot.

Etzon Gutierrez  59:32  
It's the DSO.

Evan Franulovich  59:35  
Yes, the DSO, which stands for designated school official. So yes, you'll learn all about DSOs when you get here during orientation, make sure you stay in contact with your DSOs. They can really help. Very cool. Well, we're at our final question. Now, you mentioned that you love movies. What was the last movie you saw in the movie theater?

Etzon Gutierrez  59:56  
The last, oh, it was something about maid. Ah, it was two weeks ago.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:02  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:03  
Yeah.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:03  
Just recently.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:04  
Yeah. But my wife chose the movie, so I remember.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:08  
Oh.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:09  
But it was so good. It was really good, but it was something about maide. I don't.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:13  
About what?

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:14  
Maid a maid, it's about, like, it's not a horror movie, but it suspends when.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:20  
When you say May is you mean, like, where you try to get through a.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:22  
M, A, I, D, Maide.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:25  
Oh, maid, sorry. Ah, I don't know this movie. Yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:28  
It's pretty good. You should watch it, but it's something maid.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:32  
All right.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:33  
So.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:33  
Check it out.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:34  
Yeah, it's very good.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:34  
All right, cool. Well, good job. I'd say that's pretty close to being on the wall of am, so you don't have to cry. It's good job.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:00:42  
Thank you.

Evan Franulovich  1:00:43  
Last questions we always ask our guests. You've been through the process. We always ask about wisdom. You have these young people in Mexico or somewhere else in the region, and they were thinking about coming to the United States. What kind of advice would you give them?

Etzon Gutierrez  1:01:01  
What? Okay, so first of all, if they already want to come, or they're thinking to come.

Evan Franulovich  1:01:09  
Well maybe their parents are not on the fence. It's like, do I really want to send them to the United States? I hear a lot of crazy things, you know, is, is it really great? I don't know.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:01:18  
I think, first of all, it's really great. Of course, you need to be aware of so many things anywhere in the world, even in Canada.

Evan Franulovich  1:01:27  
Sure.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:01:28  
Anywhere in the world. 

Evan Franulovich  1:01:29  
Yeah, yeah.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:01:30  
But I think that you definitely need to check out all the immigration laws, the whole process. If you want to try Seattle Colleges, North, South, Central, you should send them an email, probably Evan. it's gonna be one the one answering. 

Evan Franulovich  1:01:47  
If you're Mexican.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:01:47  
And they're gonna show you and explain the whole process, which is really important. But I think that it's completely and absolutely worth it to have the opportunity of being here and learn from here. And I think that as for me, and something that I have noticed, and even read about it in in some, oh what's the name, scientific studies, they say that one year outside of your country, home country, by yourself, it's equivalent of four years of growth, which, it makes a lot of sense.

Evan Franulovich  1:02:22  
It does make a lot of sense. Yeah. I saw an interesting quote recently. I was at City University, and they up on their wall, they say the world is like a book, and if you don't travel, it's as if you only read one page of that book. And I'm like, I mean, the quote was a little different, but I said, yeah, that's absolutely true.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:02:41  
That makes absolutely sense.

Evan Franulovich  1:02:44  
Yeah, so get out there and read that book. Guys.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:02:45  
Yeah, absolutely go for it.

Evan Franulovich  1:02:48  
Cool. That's good advice. Definitely last thing, since you're from Mexico, obviously English isn't your first language. Always love to give our listeners a sample of the language that you speak where you're from. Most people have heard Spanish, but maybe you know it's different. I don't know. So whatever you want to say, if it's just hello to family back home, or encouragement to people in the region, whatever you want to say, you know, 15-20 seconds would be awesome.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:03:13  
Okay, sounds good. (Speaks Spanish).

Evan Franulovich  1:03:23  
Seattle Colleges, follow those dreams here. 

Etzon Gutierrez  1:03:36  
Yes, do it.

Evan Franulovich  1:03:37  
Yeah, very cool. Well, so great to get to know. You have about 1000 other questions, but we're out of time, so great. I'll be excited to see how things keep continue to progress. You get to see him everywhere, guys, he's everywhere you want. He's like an American Express card. He gets out there, orientation, activities.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:03:56  
If you see me around, just say hi. You hvae any questions, go for it. 

Evan Franulovich  1:04:00  
Sure. 

Etzon Gutierrez  1:04:00  
That's why I'm here.

Evan Franulovich  1:04:01  
All right, guys, and don't forget to check out Seattle Colleges Conversations With! every Wednesday right here on YouTube or Apple podcasts. Lots of great information. Please like, share and subscribe. We're almost to 100,000 subscribers. Now. We want to get over that 100,000 mark, so tell everybody you know, grandma, grandpa, everybody. So it'd be really cool. And school counselors, agents, anybody, just let them all know.

Etzon Gutierrez  1:04:32  
Sounds good.

Evan Franulovich  1:04:33  
All right, good luck to you. Thank you guys. Take care. Bye, bye,

Etzon Gutierrez  1:04:38  
Bye.

Evan Franulovich  1:04:40  
Conversations with! is painstakingly crafted for you by the Seattle Colleges International Programs department and supported by the lovely folks here on our campus. This show is produced and edited by me, Evan Franulovich. We welcome your emails and questions about coming to Seattle Colleges. Please reach out to us via our website or just give us a rating and a review on Apple podcasts as this helps others discover the show. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok or YouTube at Seattle Colleges Intl. And be sure to check out all the shows here on Conversations with! Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.