Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Steven Waddell: Rocks, Rails, and Revelations: A Model's Autism Story
Stephen Waddell takes us on a powerful journey of self-discovery as he shares how he uncovered his autism in adulthood after building a successful modeling career.
Despite being naturally introverted and struggling with social interactions, Stephen found himself thrust into a profession that demanded social fluency – forcing him to systematically develop scripts and strategies that masked his autistic traits.
A near-fatal accident on the New York subway at age 21 became Stephen's turning point. After surviving contact with the third rail, he emerged with a renewed determination to engage with life, methodically teaching himself social skills and transforming physically – losing nearly 200 pounds before unexpectedly entering the modeling world.
This brutal forcing of social interaction became both his challenge and eventual strength.
What makes Stephen's perspective particularly valuable is his insight into the exhausting nature of social masking. "It's been 15 years of doing the same kind of thing over and over again," he explains, describing how his carefully constructed public persona differs dramatically from his private self.
He demonstrates how simple tools like his collection of stimming rocks provide essential sensory regulation when overwhelm hits.
Now focused on nonprofit accounting, Stephen offers a fascinating perspective on how artificial intelligence can level the playing field for neurodivergent individuals.
By automating social communications that would typically require significant emotional energy, AI helps him bypass the need for masking in many situations.
His vision for technology as an equalizer offers hope for creating more accessible professional environments.
For young autistic people struggling with that "social confusion fog," Stephen's message is clear: "Take your time, it does get better."
His journey from confusion to clarity demonstrates how understanding your neurodivergent mind can transform perceived limitations into unique strengths and open unexpected paths forward.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me, the World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the World. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me, the World. Joining us today is Stephen Waddell. He's a model and a blogger specializing in writing about his health and wellness. He joins us today to discuss his experiences with autism and how it has impacted his life's journey, as well as his strategies for managing it and his career choices. He has a unique approach and will undoubtedly share valuable insights with us. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, no, for sure, man.
Speaker 2:So if you would give us a little information about yourself, what sparked that was really my brother and my brother's wife and so she's involved with she's getting, she's involved in getting a PhD and I hope I don't butcher it what exactly it is, but it's one of those things where it's very long and very niche, but essentially it's in that world where she studies this kind of stuff. Growing up I always knew I was maybe a bit of an odd duck, different, very introverted, very comfortable being alone. Then later on in life my brother's wife hope she started studying this and started talking to my brother about and said your behaviors match up with this. And then one thing led to another and I started calling my brother on long drives and we started talking about this stuff and I was like you know, I do that and I do that, and yeah, I do that, that's called stimming and I was like, oh, there's a word for it. I was like that's interesting. I just thought I was weird, there's that.
Speaker 2:And then we started talking about social masking and that's where it really settled in for me in a big way, because that's always been a big hurdle of mine is the whole social component. I'm a little bit fuzzy now and I put on some weight in accounting season, but my background ended up being in the modeling industry and I ended up building my career doing stuff in the front end of the modeling industry a little bit after I basically lost a bunch of weight after a bad accident which we can talk about at some point. If it's interesting, I'm open about it Lost a bunch of weight, ended up working in the modeling industry and then ended up working in the back end of the modeling industry Entertaining right, where being social is very important, and also in the modeling world, understanding social etiquette becomes pretty important too in terms of kind of income, drivers, right.
Speaker 1:So how did you approach that? Because social is sometimes very tough for an autistic person.
Speaker 2:So it was a very interesting world to be in and I was almost forced to have to learn step by step do this, do not do this, build those scripts as a way to fit in.
Speaker 2:It's at the point now where it's almost like I might have to learn how to unmask, where it's almost like I might have to learn how to unmask because it's been 15 years of doing the same kind of thing like over and over again.
Speaker 2:And it's really like the people who know me well and see me a lot privately understand that what gets presented out to the world ends up quite frequently looking like somebody who might have been like the captain of the baseball team or something like that, which is a very common assumption people have. But the person I actually am very quiet, very introverted, lots of niche tastes, very peculiar at times, picky with some things, not with others, odd sense of humor, all that kind of stuff. And I think if we're talking about it in terms of the spectrum and you can see here one of my stimming objects right here which is rocks In terms of the spectrum, I'm probably less openly showing about it In my college years or high school. People might have thought it then, but 15, 20 years of masking. In a very social industry where you have to appear like you're that part of the party, you tend to learn certain things that people are looking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty understanding there. What type of modeling did you do? Did it require a lot of changes in clothes?
Speaker 2:All modeling does. I didn't do a ton of it, but mainly stuff in suits. You can call it bridal, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Did you have any issues with texture of clothes? I know some autistic people will have issues with texture of clothes.
Speaker 2:I don't per se. I happen to really like wool and this sweater is not a wool one, but I have a wool sweater I like wearing. That's a little bit more, and this goes back to the masking and I can actually show you. And this goes back to the masking and I can actually show you. This is one of the wool sweaters that I like wearing, but it looks like a Christmas sweater, and so when you're appearing on business meetings and Zooms and I just was on one you can only get away with that for a few weeks out of the year.
Speaker 1:With all of this happening, how did you come out of your shell? You're introverted. You was doing a lot of masking. Did you have to force yourself to get that unmasking, so to speak? How did you handle that? How did you approach it? Forced?
Speaker 2:it 100%, forced, brutal force. And that really happened after I had a life-changing accident when I was 21,. Me and a couple of friends were out drinking and I'll cut the story kind of short on this part because it relates, but it's not why we're here. But essentially I ended up tripping and falling on the third rail of the New York subway after just nights out drinking and I think that really played a role in the socialization and just if it's a social event, I just need copious amounts of alcohol to feel normal, just would use that.
Speaker 2:And then after that accident happened, I have an epiphany. I was just really happy to be alive. I was like okay, this arm is going to show you on Zoom so you can see the scar on this arm. That's where I hit the rail. The electricity came out a few spots up my spine. I have lots of scar tissue on the inside, a couple spots out on my legs, out my spine. So I have lots of scar tissue on the inside, a couple spots out on my legs and just did something to me where I was like I need to figure out how to participate in life. I need to figure out how to do this.
Speaker 1:What did you do to change so that you could move forward in a different direction?
Speaker 2:So I would just force myself to learn how to have a conversation with people, which was just the beginning. Stages were rough because I would just go out to bars and I'd ask people the same question over and over again what did you think of the game last night? Did you see the game last night? What did you like about the game last night? But it was just to force it and I would say the interesting thing about that is the vast majority of people were relatively kind. That's great to hear. I would say 10% of the people just got a bad attitude about it and that was rough to deal with.
Speaker 2:So that kind of sparked something in me. And then I was pretty overweight at the time too. I was about 320 pounds and basically through this process of about a year and a half I stumbled into an accidental Atkins diet because the doctors told me I needed to eat a lot of protein to regrow muscle mass and I lost a lot of weight and I ended up like one of those moments where they're like you can actually model and I ended up doing a little bit of that. But I've got this big scar on my arm and I'm almost six foot five, which in the modeling world is not a profitable thing as a male.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that does seem tall for a model.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're too tall, so you want to be between five, 11 and a half and six to maybe six, three. Otherwise you don't get the sample sizes of the clothing and it's a business just like anything else. It's a little bit different now because your influence matters with social media and stuff that add that component to it, but nonetheless it's still an industry and then, being in that industry, you were forced very much to understand what's happening socially, very much to understand what's happening socially. For me it's almost like I was able to turn a negative into a positive because I was forced to break everything down and forced to really understand things.
Speaker 1:Did that help you move forward with that industry?
Speaker 2:What eventually gave me staying power in the industry were really two things.
Speaker 2:I was able to understand the analytical side of the business, which very few people who understand the modeling world and the creative aspects do, and that translates well into the nonprofit sector as well, which is primarily where I am living now in this day and age.
Speaker 2:The second part to it is you end up dealing with a lot of hard to deal with people. Here's where we could touch on a little bit of mental illness as well. So I became a little bit of the narcissist rambler, mainly because and I've noticed this and as I've gone through the late diagnosis and everything and I've noticed this and as I've gone through the late diagnosis and everything that us autistic folks and I think we're very sensitive to truthfulness, so typically that personality type it's called NPD. I think they play around with the truth in ways that I think folks who are normal neurotypical don't pick up on it right away until it's too late. But it almost became a success for me in this industry of being able to identify this and also not just that deal with these folks to a profitable result for all, entities included. I can't get into too many specifics with it, because if NDA is in this kind of thing, but we work with large companies, publicly traded ones, and just it's this kind of thing, but we work with large companies, publicly traded ones.
Speaker 1:What about sensory overload? Did you have any instances where that happened to you during all the things that you was doing in your daily life?
Speaker 2:Every day. I still go through it and that's one of the dangers of, I think, my job and one of the reasons why I'm continuing to move into the nonprofit sector and start doing that consciously away from the modeling sector. Because you can see, I've got one of my stem rocks in my hand. I would say a lot of pacing and circles and some sort of object like this. And then I have another one here, similar rock. But I found I like the different sensation in my hand, Like sometimes I want this because it's an even weight in my hand and then sometimes I want this because it will give me a different sensor each time because it doesn't always land the same way. I get them from a rock store that's five minutes away where all they do is sell rocks I treat myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good, whatever it takes, right? What about meltdowns? Do you have any issues there? Some autistic people have meltdowns, some don't. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm still learning a bit more exactly what a meltdown is, but my understanding of what happens with me is I have a heat pad on the floor and so I'll just lie on the heat pad until I know my head stops spinning. It triggers the crunk pain as well. I require solitude and stillness is what kind of works for sometimes four to 12 hours.
Speaker 1:Sure, now what about food? I know a lot of people have issues with certain food textures. They don't like it, they can't eat it. They have to find something that's different that they can like. How does that affect you?
Speaker 2:I don't know, not really, I can't say it. There's a couple of foodss that produce disgust. I think it's in the normal range. It's nothing like too outstanding.
Speaker 1:That's really good. Now you said that you're trying to move on from the modeling and get more into the world of charity and nonprofits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, primarily what I do. I got connected with a firm specialized in nonprofit accounting. I've been working there with them for over a decade, have some private clients of my own in the nonprofit world and started really utilizing AI quite a bit to really reduce my workload down. I started really noticing how AI can really help nonprofits bridge a lot of gaps and help with the grant management and grant writing and essentially that portion of every nonprofit that they have to go to. So that's really I would say that's become my area of specialty and interest.
Speaker 2:Many reasons and I think the simplest one is I see it very much as leveling the playing field and if we're going to bring it into autism and how it relates, for autism is the whole social masking and scripting process is very labor intensive and requires immense amount of emotional energy.
Speaker 2:For me, when I can program an AI to write me an email in a way that it gets better over time, I don't have to think about how I need to respond. I don't have to think about what's socially normal. I don't have to think about the emotions that go into it and what's expected of me. The AI does that for me. It removes what I find to be with my brain will go crazy and think of all of these details, all the stuff that's irrelevant. But when I'm just able to get on my phone and say, hey, jimmy emailed me and they want financial reports for this day and I can't get them by this date, can you write a response? And just having AI do that and looking at that response, a response. And just having AI do that and looking at that response, I'm like okay, serviceable, good off For everybody and for all humans. I think that's a very beneficial thing.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes total sense. Now, what about friends? Since you've been trying to expand a little bit, have you come out of your shell, or do you still have a small circle of friends and keep it very close to what you feel comfortable with?
Speaker 2:Very small circle, even though people think otherwise. It's really, I would say. My girlfriend, who I've been with for 14 years now yeah, so my gal, we've been together 14, could be 15 in August. I can't believe how time flies, but it's amazing. She's wonderful. And my brother, dan, my dad, maybe a little bit sometimes, colin, but really that's the social circle and I have some friends too. Social circle and I have some friends too. I was just talking to my friend Andy today, but he's somebody I probably speak with. I'm talking to him more now, but maybe three to three to six times a year over the phone and he's in Rhode Island. But I would say, yeah, friendship circle is pretty small.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that Completely understand all. Yeah, I get that Completely understand. Now, what about your girlfriend? Did she know before you got together that you might have been autistic, or was it after you got together that the autism came about? Can you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:She knew I was very introverted and different and we both in involved in the modeling industry and so I think she she liked it initially and it was like something that I think it may be it was more of a middle of the bell curve type of relationship, that it would have been noticed sooner, but it was such like a relief from somebody who doesn't really care about social status, isn't too concerned with what people think about them, almost oblivious to it, and so I think she liked that. So it fell under the radar and her father is highly introverted, so I think that played into it as well and we were in that time in our lives building our career. I think she knew what was different. We didn't really have words for her and I think around the time my brother and I were talking about this stuff and I ran it by her and I forget if I ran it by her exactly or if she mentioned it to me, but the general reaction was like, yeah, it sounded about right okay, yeah, that's great, great attitude to have.
Speaker 1:Now, did you ever get truly diagnosed, or did you just believe that you were and just went self-diagnosed?
Speaker 2:um, I just assumed and I'm fine with that, it's. I think the main reason why I won't seek a diagnosis is because I've heard that there there are some instances where it can be classified as as a disability and eventually it can hurt you in some capacity in work and other professional fields. I don't know how I really feel about that. Still, it's still new for me and I wonder what would I get out of?
Speaker 1:it If I did? Yeah, I totally understand that completely. How long have you considered yourself autistic? Maybe?
Speaker 2:thinking about it for about three years and then consider myself probably a year and a half where I was like, yeah, it just fits. And now it's gotten to the point where I'm comfortable telling my gal it's like, all right, I have to de-stim, which is pretty much me pacing in a circle tossing this rock in my hand repeatedly for anywhere from 30 minutes to three hours. I don't know why I need to, I just know it's what happens and just how I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically you're creating your own comfort zone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very repetitive. It's what drew me into the accounting field as well, is it's very repetitive high focus work, and I know Chase Bank has a program where they're employing autistic folks to do this kind of work.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what's your goals now? Where do you see yourself in three, say five years from now?
Speaker 2:It depends on what happens, given the political climate and everything that's happened happened there too. Yeah, for myself, I really want to continue to hone into my work with nonprofits. I love it. I enjoy it. I've learned a lot about the nonprofit sector and I view it very much as an essential way that we can fix the problems of our world. And I see the business sector providing value in certain areas, the government in other areas and the nonprofit world in another. And I really enjoy and can see AI as this leveling of the playing field type of tech in ways in which it can allow people with a good work ethic, a good idea, and it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It matters less the background that you came from and the relationships that you have, because a lot of times, this tech can replace a lawyer. My dad's a lawyer. I can go call him for legal advice. That's an immense privilege. But now I can use AI to help me read a contract. I can use AI to help me write a contract, and sure, it's not perfect, but a lot of times, if you don't have the resource and that's all you have, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing at all.
Speaker 2:You can learn how to do SEO on your website. On it. You can have it write the grant application for you. Even if English isn't your first language, you can write the thing verbally in your native tongue, just by speaking into it, and then you can have a grant application produced in English. So I think it's going to help remove a lot of gatekeeper professions and it's going to allow more access to opportunity, but in the same token it's also going to condense control and power in hands of basically the people who learn how to use it. It's got that kind of positive and negative and the short is spend some time every day to learn how to use it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Change is not always bad. Now, what would you like to tell our listeners that you think is important for them to hear about what you're doing?
Speaker 2:I think really I'd like to reach somebody in my shoes 20 years ago just say take your time, it does get better. In the same token, I'm glad we live in a world where we can now talk about this openly, because I'm not sure I would have followed the same path if I really, if podcasts were out and this information was out when I was in my young 20s, I wouldn't have gone through this immense amount of pain, just this fog of just not understanding how the social component works. And I would say if I can hit one thing that would resonate with people, it's at that young age. Young age, it's that social confusion fog, and that was big for me because I think I was. I'm somewhere in the spectrum where it's like I know enough when something's not going not right socially right, I know, but I don't know what it is and and be yourself, be open and learn what works for you.
Speaker 2:And I'd probably encourage everybody to work as a contractor or a business owner. As a young age, with this too, I couldn't imagine being an employee. I couldn't imagine being an employee, and that's something too like a big part of my journey. That perhaps is that I missed is I very rarely was an employee for any of these periods. It was always contractor-based work. Twofold, I'd say I've encouraged young people to consider contractor or business owner types of ways to earn a living, to support a living, and then I'd encourage the employment sector to provide more accommodations and understand the value that they can extract from neurodiverse funding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now you brought something up that I definitely want to ask. Of course, everything is 20-20. When you're looking back, it's perfect, you see it, yeah, yeah. When you look back, you can always say, oh, I should have done this or I should have done that. Is there anything that you look back on now that you would change? You would say I should have done this instead of this, or I should have done that, or are you happy with the journey that you've taken to get where you are now?
Speaker 2:I think it's one of those things where it's more I wish I would have done this soon and that's what goes on in my brain, where I'm like I wish I would have reached out my hand sooner to introduce myself to people.
Speaker 2:I wish I would have learned how to open myself up to connection sooner. That's a big part of my journey and I think, too, I wish I would have noticed the alcohol use in particular sooner and how I was using that to cope with all of these feelings that constantly came up. I even attended some Alcoholics Anonymous meeting later on in life and this was basically maybe a year or two before thinking about autism, and I noticed a lot of similarities there. But in the end, the truth is, I started noticing some really key differences too that were really big, like the being able to stop component, like I was always able to stop even though it caused wreckage. I was was like okay, that's it, I'm done, it was fine, and that's where the journey shifted quite a bit. So I put that out there too, because I think that some of the reading that I've done, some of the listening that I've done with other folks who are autistic or self-identify as such, also talk about alcohol and how it shows up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great message. This has been a great conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, tony, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom Contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why not me, the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.