Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rita Williams: How One Woman Transformed Personal Trauma into Criminal Justice Reform
Rita Williams turned personal tragedy into powerful advocacy when her spouse was unexpectedly sentenced to 10-20 years in prison, revealing deep flaws in the criminal justice system and sparking her mission to expose judicial misconduct and support others facing similar challenges.
• Former federal employee who pursued a master's in criminal justice before her spouse faced white-collar charges
• Discovered her spouse had high-functioning autism only after his incarceration, highlighting how the system fails neurodivergent individuals
• Used blogging, websites, and social media to expose a prosecutor with 18 years of misconduct, eventually forcing him to relocate
• Advocates for criminal justice reform, particularly ending solitary confinement and creating better supports for people with autism
• Works with Michigan Citizens for Prison Reform and helps coordinate legislative days to connect lawmakers with those affected by the system
• Creates resources to guide people through the legal system and protect them from predatory practices
• Emphasizes the importance of being informed about the criminal justice system before you need it
Tell everyone everywhere about Why Not Me, the World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me? The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me? The World Humanity Over Handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event.
Speaker 1:Today we're thrilled to welcome Rita Williams, a distinguished strategist and consultant dedicated to empowering mission-driven organizations. Rita excels in crafting bold, data-informed programs, policies and campaigns that are deeply rooted in lived experiences. Her expertise lies in designing trauma-informed equity-driven initiatives. Leading DEI transformations through justice-informed equity-driven initiatives. Leading DEI transformations through justice-informed leadership training and championing second-chance hiring strategies. She also provides strategic guidance on evidence-based policy grant development and stakeholder engagement. With a compelling personal story and a wealth of insights to share, rita is here to inspire and inform. So if you could share some of your experiences and your journey on how it led you to where you are today, yeah.
Speaker 2:So what got me into all of this?
Speaker 2:It was I guess we'll start from when I was a teenager is the easiest place if I've always had a love for what makes people tick and as a result, I thought I was going to grow up and be a true crime writer. I wanted to be like Ann Rule she's actually still one of my heroes and as I grew up and got older, I realized writing does not pay the bills and was talked into more practical workflow and careers. I ended up becoming a public servant for the federal government, finished a bachelor's degree and it was during the pandemic that I realized there's more to me than all of this. There's more to me than this problem solver at work. I want to go make a difference in the world and at that point in time I went and pursued a master's in criminal justice, hoping that I could eventually transfer to Department of Justice. The plans that life had for me were so much weirder because my spouse ended up getting accused of a white collar crime just two months after I graduated from my program.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's too bad. That's just really unfortunate. What happened from there?
Speaker 2:Being educated, having a master's degree, level education, believed I have an idea of how the system works. These are the things that should happen. Then having a crash course with it, supporting somebody who is now a defendant, I realized no, this is not at all the case. Things are very different than how I perceived them to be.
Speaker 1:So what were your thoughts now that you was involved in the legal system?
Speaker 2:Walking into it, I tried to give everyone the benefit of a doubt, believing hey, these are professionals, they know what they're doing, I can trust the powers that be. My spouse was talked into a plea deal in October of 2023, or, I'm sorry, 2022. We get to January 2023. He goes to sentencing believing we're going to be okay out of all of this. He had just started a woodworking business. We get there and he is, out of nowhere, sentenced to 10. He had just started a woodworking business. We get there and he is, out of nowhere, sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison by the judge.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's just overwhelming.
Speaker 2:Incredibly traumatic. But part of me, just in my gut, I was like something is other than what just happened to me. Something is very wrong here. It sparked a need to find out what went so wrong. I ended up finding out that this particular county where all of this happened has a really long history of railroading people, mistreating people with disabilities, especially autism.
Speaker 1:With the information that you're finding out. What was your next steps from there?
Speaker 2:I started publishing all of it. As a result of that, of looking for answers and trying to help people, I've been able to really plug into an amazing community and really just become who I am today Somebody who's pursuing a doctorate in human services, trying to make the system better, Somebody who also still publishes about corruption and still puts those pieces out and helps people when they land in the middle of this, not sure where to go. So that's how I got here.
Speaker 1:That's a great story. Now you mentioned writing. Are you still writing? And if you are, how is that going?
Speaker 2:I do. I still do a lot of blogging. I also do a lot of content creation. I work for a nonprofit called Resilience Education Amazing people. We do both in-prison education and then post-incarceration support of helping people get back up on their feet. I still write daily. I would be shocked to see if there is not something that I could find to write about, whether it's, unfortunately, the young man who recently lost his life in Idaho, who had autism, or how does somebody get involved in court, watching to prevent judicial misconduct and be able to inform their community of what's happening and help people make more informed decisions. When voting, whether it's through LinkedIn or connecting with people or on my blog, be careful what you wish for right, because I did become a true crime writer.
Speaker 1:Yes, you just never know what the future holds for you. Now, you mentioned autism. What brought up autism? Why did you focus on that so much? Is there a reason that that means a lot to you?
Speaker 2:So a big part of my spouse's case actually was what plugged me into it.
Speaker 2:I had already known from my education and then also from continuing ed, that trauma, mental illness, can play a very heavy role in the presence of criminality, or what we define as a society as criminality, because especially those judgment centers of your brain may not be firing the way that they should be. We found out actually after my spouse was incarcerated that he had high-functioning autism. Suddenly it was like everything clicked into place, of like how sometimes he'd be looking at me but not looking at me, or how his thoughts would be like so much farther ahead than everybody else's, like we knew to an extent we were neurodivergent, like I have ADHD and so do our children, but to find out from another level that was going on. That's when that collision course happened of I had that foundation already of knowing about mental illness and issues, but then I guess, not just the connection close to home, but then also making friends in the community and through my work I started to see how prevalent it was and how we don't really talk about it as a society.
Speaker 1:Okay, so a little birdie told me that you attacked something or really went after it. They said it was quite the firestorm. Can you elaborate about that? If I remember correctly, it was something like they said you can't do anything about it.
Speaker 2:Then you just said watch me, so there's nothing. I hate being told more than you can't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:Or there's nothing you can do about it. And I'm like, oh really, because there's always something you can do. There's always a way you can advocate or work towards something and make the system more equitable. Some of the things that I've seen happen in the system, especially in terms of prison misconduct or COs behaving badly I guess the biggest claim to fame is I actually had a prosecutor moved from one county to another very secretly, very quietly, but obviously, being a data person, I'm tracking and seeing what's going on, but knowing that they had actually covered up and abused a defendant for years and years.
Speaker 2:It was actually because of Ryan, my spouse's case that we were able to uncover all of that, and this guy had spent 18 years damaging defendants' lives, basically through plea bargains, through mismanaged and misdocumented plea bargains, and I was like I'm not going to stand by and wait. And everybody was like you can't say anything, you can't publish that. And I'm like, why not? They're an elected official, this is my tax dollars at work. People deserve to know what's happening and they deserve to know, before they get to the courtroom, what the potential outcomes are. Yeah, so I gained that reputation of I don't believe you can tell me like no, there's nothing I can do about it, because I'm going to expose it one way or the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great. So now that you've done that, what has happened since? Has it opened doors to other things for you as well?
Speaker 2:In some ways it became a hurdle because I got so good at it that I was actually hit with retaliatory charges. So that wasn't fun. But I've had a lot of people who are like you're not crazy. A lot of people from the criminal justice reform community, especially criminal defense lawyers, are like you are absolutely spot on in your observation. Then I also have a lot of people come to me and what do I do next? Where do I go? How do I get help? And so I've inadvertently had to start creating those resources because there aren't any. So walking people through hey, I know that there is allegedly this agency that's supposed to help you, but don't do that. Go here instead, because you're going to have a better outcome. Or find community members in a particular area, like, for example, resilience, people who understand what you're going through and can help support you on that next phase of life. Just helping people kind of circumvent, because there are people who can be predatory out there and take advantage of those who don't know the ins and outs.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Now has that opened up the legal system more to you Like lawyers, judges, even legislators. How do you find that now moving forward?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely it has. I've had some incredible opportunities. I've been able to write testimony for some bills, especially here in Michigan. One that we're working on right now with Michigan Citizens for Prison Reform is ending solitary confinement, because it's a very mentally degrading experience, especially more so if you're somebody who already suffers from autism. There's one of those bills that we're getting ready to have. We're getting ready to host a legislative day on May 6th where I'll be there to help get people back and forth to their appointments to meet their legislators and start putting a face to the person, Because you know, legislators need to understand that when they're writing law, they're affecting real people. No-transcript. I'm really lucky with the community that sprung up around me and that I've not had stones thrown at me and cast me down. It's more of like people who have helped me stand back up and find my voice and give me the microphone to an extent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, when you get someone going to see a legislator, they sit down with them, tell them their stories. They feel bad, but then right after that, they have another person coming in telling them their stories. They feel bad, but then right after that, they have another person coming in telling them their story. They feel bad. What they really need is a group of people sitting down with them, almost grabbing them by the throat and telling them hey look, we need some change here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's one thing that I think I got tagged in on for legislative day is like can you help people tell their story? Tagged in on for legislative day is like can you help people tell their story Because I have been able to create mine or put mine forward in a more punchy way of this happened. I wasn't happy about it. Here's what I did, and that's a big battle of you need to hear a group of people because, like you said, if it's just one off or two off, legislators are going to blow that off and think that you're an outlier. But it's not the case at all. We're a silent majority. It's just something that the media doesn't cover.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely agree and I can testify to that. So what do you see happening for you in the next few years? What's your plans and what's your ultimate goals?
Speaker 2:My goals. I tag into a lot of projects and a lot of people reach out to me. In terms of criminal justice reform, I have a very big heart for it and I'd had the most wonderful compliment last week of somebody said you have the heart for this and you need that to be successful. So I plan on advocating more. I don't know that I'll ever run for office I don't think I would want to do that, but I definitely want to help people survive the trenches and build them up so they don't feel alone, because that does happen a lot. And also I really want to see more legislation on criminal justice, mental health reforms and especially autism reform, because there is I think we're at a fever pitch right now where not just the law enforcement side needs to understand it better, but the public in general needs to understand it better too if we want to see meaningful change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I speak with a lot of people about change. I always bring this up you want change. You have to understand everyone wants change. The only problem is when you're dealing with legislators. You're dealing with a group of people that go back and forth on different things and the big problem it takes time.
Speaker 2:That's the painful part, and especially when you're sitting in the middle of the system and you have a loved one that's on that other side, that's where it starts to really be like oh, this is going so slow. But I find that if you have something healthy to focus on and something to work toward, it makes that weight a little bit better, because you're not just at that point doing something for you, you're setting the table for everyone else behind you, and that's the most beautiful part is you're going through pain right now but you're making it better for somebody on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree If you can get your point across. So what are some of the ways that you've been creative to get your point across? I read or heard that one person said that you couldn't do it, you couldn't get your point across. Then you went out and actually blogged and did your things and got your point across. Then they said well, I guess we picked the wrong person to go after.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So some of the more creative things I've done is I've always had a knack for like web design and development. So I've done is. I've always had a knack for like web design and development, so I've created websites. I've done changeorg petitions. A lot of people do those but they don't always get attention. You have to make sure that you're writing it well, that you're designing graphics for it.
Speaker 2:I've actually done some creative things in terms of sending people awards, like least informed prosecutor. I've had awards made up on Etsy, which is I wouldn't advise that. Don't do that. They may not like that. But I've also been on some podcasts, which is great We've had. Let's see what are some other things we've done. I wouldn't advise it, but robocalls that sometimes gets attention.
Speaker 2:Some of the biggest things you can do is just and this is going to be the weirdest one to say, but I think a lot of people get it say the quiet part out loud, share your experience, but put it into something that's not necessarily heavy but something that's quick to share. Just doing that on social media and finding your own, I think, is one of the best ways. And then organizing people. So those are some of the things that we've had to do. But then, even getting on as strange as it sounds like the Nextdoor app, we've been able to find people who were also impacted by judges and prosecutors, by some law enforcement misconduct, just by asking questions and saying, hey, has anybody seen anything weird or had anything weird happen with this?
Speaker 2:And there are a lot of people they're just dying to tell their story because nobody's listening. Or you have a group who's oh no, that couldn't possibly happen. Here. You have this person who's been downtrodden. If you approach them, suddenly they're not alone anymore and they're just ready to talk. A big part of it, honestly, was just getting really creative and good on social media and unique blogging and just coming at it from a digital angle, because there's only so far the letter writing campaigns will get you, and social media was where I think I had the most impact, just because it's so wide open. It's that digital sphere. Yeah, I mean there's definitely some things. I've said it a little shorter and maybe a little meaner than I should have and that got some attention, but you definitely will draw more flies with honey than vinegar, I will say as a lesson learned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but sometimes you just have to put it out there what needs to be said.
Speaker 2:That is true.
Speaker 1:You can tiptoe around it, you can have diplomacy, I mean, you can be as diplomatic as you want to be. But it's like the old saying goes don't take my niceness for weakness.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you just have to step up to the plate, say I've been trying to be as nice as I can and you don't accept it, so you just blast them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and honestly, what I had to do most recently with this other case is just keep blasting of bam here's this case where something went wrong. Bam, here's this case where something went wrong. And you have to keep putting those posts out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Otherwise.
Speaker 2:here's this case where something went wrong and you have to keep putting those posts out. Yeah, absolutely, otherwise they're going to feel like they can get complacent and just get away with it, and so I've been really lucky that, because I've been staying on top of things, I've actually been able to help quite a few people not just get out of potentially bad situations with plea bargains in this particular county that I was dealing with, but also they've had some better outcomes in their cases, because one of the most creative things I did was I said give me your case file. I ran through the entire thing. I peeled it apart back to back. I basically, because I have criminal justice training, I ran through it as I was an investigator, and here's all the reasons why I wouldn't have put this case forward and how that investigator did a terrible job.
Speaker 1:That sounds like it was really a positive thing to do for you.
Speaker 2:That actually became one of the best and most popular posts on my blog. Somebody claiming there was an altercation in this truck cab with no cup holders, but they had just gone to get food. Somebody's going to have food all over them and they're out in public. Nobody saw these people covered with food. I highly doubt it. So it's things that you step through that. I'm lucky that I've got the professional training, but some of it is just common sense too. Step through that. I'm lucky that I've got the professional training, but some of it is just common sense too. And I will say, having that opportunity to be able to voice things for people and break it down in a way that makes things, I guess, less difficult to understand and more manageable, that makes it a lot easier, too, of just empowering people so that they're like I'm not going to fall for that. I know what happened.
Speaker 1:It's amazing One of the things you just said. I have five judges coming on my podcast over the next couple of months. I asked one of them a question. He took about a minute to think it over and then his answer that he came back with common sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which isn't very common. The craziest part to me, and that's encouraging to me to hear a judge like oh, thank goodness, we're going to be okay. There's actually a judge out there who's like common sense, you know, like it shouldn't be common sense for a judge to not understand mental health. It shouldn't be common sense for a judge to not consider that somebody you know has autism. But yet here we are. We still, unfortunately, have judges who are like no, this person is just a terrible person and they're evil. And that's not true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the good thing is they're not all that way. My very first episode for this month was with a judge out of Las Vegas. She has a court system that is the only one in the country, and I just have a hard time believing that there's no other court systems in the country that's like this. What she tries to do is divert all the young kids out of the court system. So if they follow the rules, they have a good chance of having a future with their lives. She does have an autistic child, but it didn't start because of that. It started because she had an opening and they had an autistic person that needed some calmness, so they put that kid in her court. Then another person saw that and wound up getting another autistic child in her court, and then it just evolved from there into a system that is unlike any other court system in the country. So if she can do it, why aren't others? Unfortunately, this just leaves us a huge hill to climb for those that are autistic.
Speaker 2:There is and the sad part is that judges and prosecutors they have the most power and they don't even. They either don't realize it or they don't want to realize it because there unfortunately is a lot of money and punishment. But if you have diversion programs for adults, which there are places I'm lucky that the county I live in has phenomenal diversion programs they do have mental health court. They have treatment or substance abuse treatment courts. They have access to those things for people to divert them away, because diversion ends up saving the taxpayer money.
Speaker 1:It saves the taxpayers huge money.
Speaker 2:Millions, and not just that, but it also creates jobs in those other sectors and it creates just a more holistic and equitable environment overall. So if you're going to do that for adults, why not do that for juveniles? When it comes to juvenile court, we just recently this year made it so juvenile defendants have access to court appointed attorneys that are paid for. That is so backward of like you have these kids that you're basically saddling debt, and it was up until a couple months ago, completely okay to do it. It's bonkers. The common sense does not exist in the system, or just empathy sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and unfortunately, the more issues a person has, the worse that it gets.
Speaker 2:Absolutely One thing that they say especially for people who are neurodivergent. Or if you're like me and you have ADHD, the joke is that ADHD brings friends to the party. Usually there's coexisting things that go along with it, like for me I struggle with math, I have dyscalculia, but I also have anxiety, so I have these things that I have to deal with in addition to my ADHD People on the autism spectrum. They have the same thing happen, where you can have autism and ADHD together and anxiety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2:You can have all of those things and we need to understand that's not an outlier, it's the norm of the human experience of there's a unique mix of things going on at any given time.
Speaker 1:So with all the pressure, you have the ADHD anxiety. My question is how do you cope?
Speaker 2:How do I cope? For me, sometimes, action is the best way to keep me busy and if I feel like I've got control over a situation and if I'm doing, I feel better. If I'm helping people, I usually feel better even if I'm not doing anything to improve my situation. And for all other things there's hot baths and crochet. That'll take care of that. But the big things for me is like how can I serve others and help others just to make sure that somebody is being taken care of, even if things aren't necessarily going right in my world?
Speaker 1:Okay, in closing, what do you think is the important thing that listeners should hear and understand about what you're trying to do?
Speaker 2:I think the most important thing that anybody can do is learn about the criminal justice system now, because the odds that you or a loved one will end up getting entangled or involved at some point in time in your life are pretty high. So it's better to educate yourself now and protect yourself and know your rights, not just constitutionally but legally within your own state, because every state is different but also advocate, because you never know. You could be one bad day away, one mental health emergency, away from being in that hot seat and potentially going to prison, and the way that we treat people now is going to make a big deal of difference for you if you end up in that seat. You have to both be informed, but most importantly, you have to care, and I will leave that the whole thing.
Speaker 2:If I have to give you guys anything of a quote from the very wise Dr Seuss from the Lorax is if people like you don't care, how does it go? If people don't care like you, or people like you don't care like a whole lot, then things won't get better. It's not. I butchered that quote, but that is one of my favorite quotes from the Lorax and I think it was a defining quote that I still take with me and I hope other people take it with them too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's been good, good conversation, great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Speaker 2:No, I had a blast. And also congratulations on being in the top three today. Like what an accomplishment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks, I appreciate it. Well, it's been great. Thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to TonyMantorcom Contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me, the world, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.