Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Autism is a complex neurodevelopmental condition that affects millions of people worldwide.
It is characterized by difficulties in social interaction, communication, and repetitive behaviors.
Although autism is becoming more widely recognized, there is still a lack of understanding and awareness surrounding the condition.
As a result, many individuals and families affected by autism struggle to find the support and resources they need.
Why Not Me The World podcast aims to bridge that gap by providing valuable information and insights into autism, fostering empathy and understanding, and promoting acceptance and inclusion.
Nashville based Music Producer Tony Mantor explores the remarkable impact his guests make by empowering their voices in spreading awareness about autism and helping break down the barriers of understanding.
Join Mantor and his guests as they delve into the world of autism and mental health to explore topics such as diagnosis, treatment, research, and personal stories.
Together, we can create a more informed and compassionate society for individuals with autism.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Katie R. Dale's Mental Health Story: Living Beyond Crazy
Katie R. Dale shares her journey from hospital patient to mental health author and advocate, offering insights into living with bipolar disorder type 1 with psychotic features and how writing became her path to healing and helping others.
• Started blogging in 2014 after hospitalization as self-therapy before expanding into professional advocacy
• Wrote memoir "But Deliver Me From Crazy" chronicling her experiences from teen years through mid-twenties
• Found writing helped process intense memories of psychosis and mania with "crystal clear" recall
• Recommends OARS approach for supporting loved ones: Open questions, Affirm feelings, Reflect understanding, Summarize conversations
• Shares practical coping strategies including 15-minute time management blocks and tactile comfort objects
• Emphasizes importance of medication (calls hers "magic pill") while noting finding the right one often requires patience
• Currently working on faith-based books exploring the distinction between psychotic voices and spiritual experiences
• Maintains hope is possible despite invisible illness through proper treatment, support systems and faith
Resources available at katierdalecom/resources including downloadable support guides and connections to organizations like National Shattering Silence Coalition, Treatment Advocacy Center, and Fresh Hope for Mental Health.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)
Welcome to why Not Me? The World Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Their stories Some will make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life people who will inspire and show that you are not alone in this world. Hopefully, you gain more awareness, acceptance and a better understanding for autism around the World. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to why Not Me? The World Humanity Over Handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event.
Speaker 1:Joining us today is Katie R Dale, an author and blogger who fearlessly shares her journey in her memoir. But Deliver Me From Crazy. This immersive narrative traces her life from her junior year through her mid-twenties, offering a vivid account of a young woman's encounters with the unseen, both mental and spiritual. The book provides a raw firsthand perspective on living with bipolar disorder type 1, with psychotic features weaving in lessons she's learned from the inside out. It stands as a powerful testament offering hope and stability to those grappling with mental health challenges. It's a pleasure to have her here today. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Tony pleasure to have her here today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, tony. Oh, it's my pleasure If you would tell us a little of your journey, on how you became this author, speaker and mental health advocate.
Speaker 2:Pretty self-proclaimed when I started blogging. I guess we could start there. I began blogging for my own website and blog back in like 2014 after I had gotten out of the hospital inpatient, so I called myself an advocate, then Got involved with some other kind of outlets with BP Magazine going to an event with them, them and then it really has just snowballed. I guess with my involvement with NSSC, National Shattering Science Coalition, and other ministries and nonprofits, I think that's where I started the advocate role. I also worked clinically as a social worker at an outpatient clinic in Missouri.
Speaker 1:You mentioned in your background that you drew inspiration to write about your journey. What's the story behind that? When did you get the first idea and when did you finish your book? What's been the response and how has it been going since you finished it?
Speaker 2:It probably started while I was in the hospital the first time, at 16.
Speaker 2:As I'm a naturally creative, gifted person like that, I've always loved to write and draw. But channeling that, even with that insight, in the hospital at 16, telling the doctor sitting there in the conference room when he's meeting with me and you know what do you think about this place he asked I want to write a book about this place and so I did and just that kind of fulfilled my, my dream to write, to publish a book and spread the message of you know, this is real and it affects people that have normal, healthy, happy lives or that come from all different walks of life, and I think writing it was cathartic. The book and continues to be as I write blog posts or articles. It just helps open that area up to help other people see what it's like to be going through an episode and that they can identify maybe you know, okay, that's where she got and how she got there and gives them a reasoning behind why we think the way we do and when those states.
Speaker 1:Since you mentioned, you're writing a book based on your lived experience. How did that process influence your thoughts as you put some of those moments on paper?
Speaker 2:that's an amazing. Yeah, it's for whatever reason. I mean, I'm sure it's neurological and psychological and all that but for whatever reason, I was able to capture these memories in these states of mind like crystal clear almost, and they were so intense, these events and the episodes and the psychosis and the mania and the depression, that I couldn't not think about them. You know, I did have a little bit of ptsd going on there, but it definitely the, the capturing it in writing and the memories just helped, not reliving it, but interpreting the, the narrative. Like what did I go through? It was so crazy and so unreal. Like how did I make sense of it? Well, that's how I made sense of it. I wrote it out.
Speaker 1:Once you finished writing the book. What were some of the responses that you were getting In this particular situation? Writing your book is almost twofold One you have the lived experience. However, you're also writing it for some of the people that might be going through some of the things that you've gone through, which shows people hope, because if you can get through it, so can they. How have they reacted to your book since you released it?
Speaker 2:There has been good responses, I think, um, because most people don't have the disorder and I'm assuming most people who read the book don't have the disorder it's. It gives them an eye and eye opening look into what it's like those who have the disorder. They've reached out to me and said oh my gosh, I've been through so many similar circumstances. You're spot on with this. You tell it the way it is. Now I do wonder, because I actually just came out with the audio book a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2:I do wonder if people are listening in and like, oh, that's triggering. Like, oh, that's this, it's a little bit sensitive in some places. That's this. It's a little bit sensitive in some places. Talk of suicidality and spirituality, and I'm a fully open book there, literally and figuratively. So I do not put a trigger warning in the book and I do wonder if people have been triggered to a degree. So that's just a kind of a thought I've had since writing it that I haven't had anybody come across with me saying, hey, that was triggering, but at the same time it's something to note.
Speaker 1:Sure, Now you've mentioned two or three different things. What was the diagnosis that you got that actually led you to writing the book?
Speaker 2:So my diagnosis is bipolar disorder type one, with a mania mostly and with psychotic features. So I had those hallucinations, delusions, hearing voices, thinking and believing grandiose things. It tied in with that mania.
Speaker 1:While you was going through this, did you have a support system that helped you get through it?
Speaker 2:I did yes. System that helped you get through it. I did yes. My family, my parents, my husband, my brother, an extended family, my aunt, cousins, people that I've known most of my life, were there for me, and without them I don't know I'd be in the same place, so crucial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think what it does, because yours is such a success story in itself. Now you're writing books, you're blogging and people can see that. I think one of the good things that's really coming from this. You got through it. Now you are in a position where you can advocate and help others. This way, they realize that they are not alone.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. Isolation and that state of mind, especially when you can get into like anosognosia, where you don't realize you're sick, like that's another layer, I'm the only one in it and I don't even realize I'm in it, like that can be debilitating on its own. But yeah, for people to realize they're not alone. This is why we don't take our medicine and this is why we're going through this because you have a diagnosis of an illness in your brain and it happens and you didn't do anything to cause it.
Speaker 1:Do you get a chance to speak to some people when they get out to attend some of your events?
Speaker 2:they can give you some of the impressions that they are going through and then tell you how that your book is absolutely helping them I mean I had people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, like the title of the book, seeing just the title or the front of the book with a cross and the pills and it says crazy across the front. Because you know they're like, oh, that's me, I'm crazy, I could relate to that right off the bat. So there's that piece of you know, it's almost shock value of like hey, you know we're all a little bit crazy and weird, but at the same time, like not everybody can relate to the bipolar psychosis. So I hope to make it more understood so that people, if they have somebody who they know, you know family or friend to them, that develops it or has had it, they have more answers to what and why.
Speaker 1:Now you mentioned that you had a truly great support system, which everyone knows is very important in a person's life. For those that might be listening to this, they may be just starting to go through some of these things that you've gone through. They might have a loved one that is going through something very similar as well. What do you, or could you tell them that gives them a pathway to knowing that the future can be better?
Speaker 2:Okay. So there are plenty of resources that I have compiled. I offer a download on my website. There's pretty much like a 10, 12-page download. You can print it out, fill it in, but it has vetted resources. I can list a few like National Shattering Silence Coalition. They're a nationwide, us-based nonprofit. They're raising awareness. They're doing education pieces, care groups and support groups and things. But also the other one is Treatment Advocacy Center Very good resource for finding the support you need for an actual treatment program assisted outpatient treatment program, aot.
Speaker 2:It's in 48 out of 50 states. Right now we're working on Massachusetts and, I think, connecticut, those kinds of programs. There's CCBHTs, certified community behavioral health centers, in most states. Those are good programs for people, especially in the rural area, and then getting involved with. I do come from a faith background, so for those who have that faith background piece, fresh Hope for Mental Health is a great support group with evidence-based research too that backs up what they're doing with their practices. They have hope coaches. I am one of those who got trained through them to help others and really going into more of that let's like. Another one is care ministry, hope Made Strong. They do a summit every year online for mostly church leadership, but anybody's welcome to join. I'm trying to think of some other resources, but yeah, grabbing the game plan off of my website at katierdalecom slash resources gives you all that plus more. I've got lists upon lists of just ways you can get connected and find those pathways.
Speaker 1:One common thread I've noticed in nearly everything, whether it's mental health, autism, whatever it might be. That moment when someone first learns their child, relative or loved one has a disorder again, whatever it might be, often feels like stepping into the big unknown. They're left wondering how to help and support them. You've pointed to all these resources and places that can provide assistance, which is great, but what about the day-to-day experience of living with that person? How do you comfort and support them in a way that doesn't trigger a reaction but instead helps them feel calm and settled? This way, they can start sorting things out for themselves and realize that it's just a pathway that they need to do so they can get better and cope.
Speaker 2:So let me give you an acronym to help remember it by. This is basically in a nutshell, what it's called is motivational interviewing and we use that in the clinician side, but it's also helpful for your loved one. You start with acronym is OARS, like OARS for a boat. So O stands for open-ended questions. Keep your questions what, how? Stay away from why? But those open-ended questions for them to explore with you what they're going through, what they're feeling, what they're thinking, what they're experiencing. Hear them out as much as you can, give them the space and the time to explain.
Speaker 2:A. The next letter in the acronym stands for affirm, so validate. You do not have to agree, you do not have to value judgment, assign like that's good or that's bad, but at least saying I hear you, I understand, or. That must be hard, I can't imagine, but that sounds really hard right now. Make them feel heard and understood through affirming them. And then R is reflections, where you kind of summarize what they said to you and in your own words, paraphrase back to them what they're feeling, thinking, going through, so that they know that you understand them to a degree as best as you can. And then S is pretty similar reflections as summarize and giving them, you know, wrapping up the conversation. Okay, so you must be going through this XYZ or ABC and just summarize, wrap it up, so that there's closure for that moment, for that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Now, what about when they're agitated? If the person's autistic, they can have a meltdown. It can last 15, 20, 30 minutes, or whatever the time frame may be. But what about conditions like schizophrenia, PTSD or other mental health challenges? Those intense feelings can linger so much longer. How do you support someone through that, helping them find a path so they can calm down and regain control?
Speaker 2:What's been helpful for me, and I think, other people, is the time-based schedule. Give yourself, like I love, this tool. Give yourself a handful of things that need to get done and a handful of things that you want to do, and space it out like 15 minutes increments. So for the first 15 minutes, do something that you need to get done. Make yourself kind of do it. The next 15 minutes, relax and do something you want to do that you enjoy. That helps with your time awareness and helps you focus. At those points you know after an hour was by and then you realize, oh my gosh, I've done. I've gotten four things knocked out or I've been able to enjoy and I haven't really paid attention to the time. Because time can be very stressing and triggering for people, like if they don't have a sense of purpose or if they don't have a sense of a place to go or look forward to. That can help calm somebody down and make them more productive yeah, so what about the noise?
Speaker 1:I've heard many people talk that they have noises in their head. Okay, how can that be addressed? So they can help them settle down some and be more comfortable with themselves.
Speaker 2:You know what? I haven't encountered that that I can recall, except when I was in the hospital and there was like a high pitch ringing because of the side effect of the medicine and I was just freaking out, like you know the high sensitivity and auditory input. So definitely what helps me in those situations is holding on to something that's tactile, that's like soft or like soothing. I think I have a I don't know if it's affinity for things, but like when I'm it's kind of funny, it's a quirk of mine. But when I have like a pet, like a cat or a dog, around their ears, I love to like put my fingers around their ears because the sensation to me is very soothing and not everybody has that. I don't know if I've met anybody else who has that quirk, but something that you can find that you know helps relieve some kind of stress like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, now let's take the noise to a different scenario. They're hearing noises which may be voices that they're hearing, that we don't hear. How do you help settle that down? Because they are hearing it in their mind. However, the other person is not hearing it. What are the steps you might need to take to help them on that?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, here's what not to say. I'll give you that and then I'm going to tell you what to do. Don't say oh, it seems real to you, it is real to them. They're going to be experiencing it just like you and I are talking today.
Speaker 1:Sure that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I went through psychosis to the point where I thought I was convinced even years later, after I even wrote my book, that I had seen Tom Cruise on the sidewalk from afar. And so there's just things that you hear and see in those states that you just can't shake. Your brain is just playing such a good game with you. So don't tell somebody, oh, it seems real to you or it's not real, yeah, absolutely Don't go there. But you can say kind of like Alzheimer's and dementia folks, you know that have their own, they're in their own little world like that. You have to join them, you have to kind of just sit with it and acknowledge it. And when you do have the opportunity you go to the doctor with them or you get the medications looked at, because medications can very well help in a lot of cases. For that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then, chris, sometimes it takes a period of time to find the right medication to work. It does.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's a trial and error. At this stage of history we are in, it's still trial and error. I'm sure, though, that with the advancements they're making in the next generation or two, we'll see like so many fixes, in that you know quicker solutions to that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I spoke with one person. He said it took him 10 years to figure it all out.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:There was one particular medication that sounded very similar. The doctor said let's try this one. He said no, I've already done that one. The doctor said this is the one that you've used. This is the one that we need to use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He tried it. It worked really well. He said this is my magic pill.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I don't shy away from using the term magic pill because I know there's that connotation with it, but for me personally, vilify is my magic pill. Without that five milligrams man, I would be out in left field. So I do believe that the medicines can be found. The right medicines can be found.
Speaker 1:So what's up next? Are you writing a new book? Is there anything else that you're thinking about possibly doing in the future?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I kind of have a three-pronged business slash ministry I'm an author, I'm an artist and I'm an advocate, and one of those is making money for me right now. So I think I'm going to go forward starting something like freelance work on Upwork, which I already do, freelance work but I'm looking forward to doing more artwork and graphic design for people. But that aside, in terms of books, I am still writing and I'm working on two books at the time. They are faith-based Christian living genre With tying in my mental health with it and my background in psychology and everything. I'm actually drawing out the dynamic of hearing voices and hearing God's voice, because there's a difference and I like to explore that in what I'm writing. So I'm kind of bringing those two things together in the next couple of books that I have in the Christian living market. And what else am I up to? Yeah, that's where I enjoy laboring. It's a labor of love, it's what I love to do.
Speaker 1:So if you could expand a little bit on the different voices that you just brought up, you are saying that the voices differ, so how can you tell, how do you tell them this is what you're hearing or this is what you could be hearing? Can you tell us the difference between the two?
Speaker 2:From personal experience when I heard voices in a psychotic state they were erratic and raspy and chanting and loud and in my inner ear like shouting.
Speaker 2:Other times I might have heard voices and they were so convincing I think it was.
Speaker 2:It sounded like it was somebody in the room. But as far as God's voice that, according to the Bible, is a still small voice that we hear in our heart and based on four keys to hearing God's voice, through Mark Ferkler he's the founder of Communion with God Ministries taking out of a book of the Bible called Habakkuk, he goes into kind of defining how we can access God's voice and that is the first key is being still. The second key is envisioning Jesus there with you in your mind's eye. The third key is tuning to spontaneous flow, letting things bubble up within your heart, being open to that. And then the fourth is writing it down and documenting everything. If it lines up with God and who he is in the Bible and His nature, it's God's still small voice speaking to you. If it doesn't line up with God and His nature and His loving, encouraging voice from the Bible, it may not be God. So yeah, that's where I'm going with those things and I guess I would hope that gives some clarity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, so do you have the opportunity to do many live events where you get to be there in person, get the stories from people, get a chance to interact with them. There's nothing better than getting stories from people that follow you and, of course, have read your book. They then can share their personal experiences and really relate to what you're trying to put across with it.
Speaker 2:At this time I'm not doing many live events. I'm so remote. I mean, I'm going on podcasts and summits online, but it's mostly like a one-way avenue because I don't have that two-way audience where I'm present with them, unfortunately. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. I mean, podcasts are good, and so are the online things. In the end, all that matters is you're getting your point across and helping people. Now, how do people find you? For those who want to follow you reach out to you. What's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:I'm at katierdalecom and I'm everywhere on well, I say everywhere, but most places on social media at katierdale is my handle, so it's across the board. Like Facebook is where I'm usually at Starting to get into substack, so yeah, so, in closing, what do you feel that's important for the listeners to hear?
Speaker 2:that they just need to hear on what you're trying to do um, maybe drawing out just to make a point of like, there's a lot of confusion in mental illness but, um, there's a lot of uh, a lot to be said for truth and, uh, the person of christ who draws people to himself when our world is is very broken. I think we can all agree there's always hope, I think, leaving you with the thought that you know, despite how hard it is to suffer with an invisible illness like bipolar disorder or others, I find so much comfort in that, knowing that Christ, who lives in me, has seen everything I've seen through my eyes, you know, has heard every voice and seen every vision or thought, you know, seen every thought and knows me intimately, and to me that's very comforting because he is a good God and he has answered my prayers to bring me back to a whole mind and there's hope for everyone for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, that is great information. This has been really good Good conversation, good information, a lot of good things for my listeners to hear. So thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Tony. This is awesome. Thank you so much. It's great getting to chat with you and getting to know you a little bit. This has been really neat. Thank you so much, oh it's been my pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks again so much. Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know anyone that would like to tell us their story, send them to tonymantorcom contact then they can give us their information so one day they may be a guest on our show. One more thing we ask tell everyone everywhere about why Not Me, the World, the conversations we're having and the inspiration our guests give to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.