Tony Mantor: Why Not Me ?

Leanna May Franklin: Love Without Structure: Navigating Serious Mental Illness as a Family

• Tony Mantor

Share episode

Send us a text

Leanna May Franklin shares her journey as a mental health advocate after her son experienced a psychotic break at age 19, revealing the challenges of navigating care even with resources and professional expertise.

• Experienced a life-changing moment when her son had a psychotic breakdown during a family gathering
• Recognized signs that she initially thought were typical teenage behaviors but were early symptoms of mental illness
• Her son is now diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder depressive type with polysubstance use
• Despite having resources and knowledge, faced enormous barriers in getting appropriate care for her adult son
• Co-founded a holistic mental health clinic offering integrated approaches including blood testing and IV therapy
• Advocates for successful community treatment models like one in Yakima, Washington that provides services with minimal budget
• Discusses "ambiguous grief" – the unique pain of losing someone who is still physically present
• Emphasizes the importance of documentation, understanding system language, and building support teams
• Believes in setting boundaries as an act of protection while continuing to advocate for better care
• Works with National Shattering Silence Coalition to influence mental health policy reform

If you'd like to learn more about Liana's work or need advocacy support, contact her at leanna@seattlenad.com or call/text 425-393-4762. 

She is available to attend meetings anywhere in the US to support those navigating the mental health system.


https://tonymantor.com
https://Facebook.com/tonymantor
https://instagram.com/tonymantor
https://twitter.com/tonymantor
https://youtube.com/tonymantormusic
intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
Why Not Me the World music published by Mantor Music (BMI)

Speaker 1:

Welcome to why Not Me?

Speaker 1:

Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, usa, nashville, tennessee. Join us as our guests share their raw, howlful stories. Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. These real-life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, unwavering acceptance and profound understanding of autism and mental health. Tune in, be inspired and join us in transforming the world, one story at a time.

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Welcome to why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. Joining us today is Liana Mae Franklin. She is a co-founder and operations manager of Seattle NAD in Bellevue, Washington, where she leads efforts to develop a holistic approach to treatment, addressing the root causes of complex conditions. Additionally, as the Washington State Policy Director for the National Shattering Silence Coalition, nssc, she works to influence and improve mental health policies, focusing on systemic reform and advocating for individuals and families affected by serious mental illness. We are thrilled to have her wealth of expertise with us today. Thanks for coming on, and can you give us a little information about yourself?

Speaker 2:

I am a licensed mental health clinician living in the state of Washington. I also serve as the policy director for Washington State for the National Shattering Silence Coalition.

Speaker 1:

So if you would tell us what led you to become an advocate.

Speaker 2:

So I've always been in the health field. I've been practicing in medicine for almost 20 years and in 2021, my adult son suffered a psychotic break, and that's when I got deep into mental health.

Speaker 1:

Okay, what age was he at the time that this happened?

Speaker 2:

He was 19 years old 19.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I hear many times that a lot of younger people show signs of psychosis, but it goes unnoticed. Were there any behaviors or indicators that preceded his psychotic episodes?

Speaker 2:

What was happening beforehand was what I thought to be typical teenage behavior. So, you know, isolation, mood changes, slight behavior changes, but he was still functioning and, you know, showing up for school every day. He was the best driver in our family. You know he had a lot of strengths and qualities that caused us to maybe not look at those challenges so closely.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that makes perfect sense. So what happened that made you realize that you had to look at this more seriously?

Speaker 2:

So my son had been hanging out a lot with his friends and we hadn't seen him for a couple of weeks and he came home on 4th of July weekend to celebrate with the family. We're all having a barbecue and he wasn't himself. Halfway through our celebration he had a meltdown which I've never seen him really have such a meltdown before, and as the weekend progressed we had to really examine what was going on and he had a complete executive functioning meltdown which I've never even witnessed in a person before. And so from that point on, I mean he went into an inpatient facility and from that point on we've been looking at every intervention that is out there holistic, conventional working with the best professionals, the best programs and even with the means and the support. We have had very similar stories.

Speaker 1:

As someone who doesn't have access to these programs, yeah, so can you describe what the executive meltdown looked like Because if you've never seen one then I'm sure a lot of our listeners haven't either looked like, because if you've never seen one then I'm sure a lot of our listeners haven't either.

Speaker 2:

It just might help them as well. Yeah so disorganized speech responding to internal stimuli, audio and visual hallucinations, very aggravated and agitated, you know, unable to sit still. He just wasn't feeling well. He just did not feel well. He needed our help. He knew something was wrong and he really needed our help. He knew something was wrong and he really needed our help.

Speaker 1:

So was he in a capacity where he knew something was wrong, or was he one that thought everything was just okay?

Speaker 2:

In my son's case he knew he knew before any of us knew when he was age 15 that something wasn't right and he actually advocated for his own treatment early on. Again, at the time we all thought it was typical hormonal stuff depression, anxiety, social challenges, academic challenges, just the stress of life but he knew something was wrong and he actually did a lot of his own research online. At one point he did say to us at age 16, I think I might have schizophrenia- Really Wow. At the time I was very dismissive.

Speaker 1:

Understandable.

Speaker 2:

Even though you know I'm getting him the help he needs, we had one of the best psychologists in the United States, etc. I at the time was in complete denial as a mother and thought well, this is just the phase.

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

Because it doesn't run in our family and I had always thought that schizophrenia and bipolar was genetic.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And it's a long-term diagnosis. You don't just diagnose somebody, right? Right? So I thought my child's reading stuff online and he's getting you know ideas of what an extreme scenario would be. And you know, a diagnosis of schizophrenia usually takes up to 10 years because it has to be consistent symptomology, right? So here we are 2025, you know, almost five years after his meltdown, and we've learned a lot.

Speaker 1:

What did you learn out of this?

Speaker 2:

We've learned that he absolutely has schizoaffective disorder depressive type, and struggles with polysubstance use, and it's been a real challenge getting now that he's an adult getting the treatment that he needs. So we're at the point. You know, we've worked with coaches and mentors and caregivers and friends of families and professionals and people that I've hired as peer support professionals and people that I've hired as peer support and we're at the point now where we're hiring an attorney to petition for long-term, court-ordered, long-term treatment.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so in your state do you have any form of AOT, or is that pretty much non-existent?

Speaker 2:

We do so. They passed the law in Washington state in 2023, and they're just now getting momentum. There's two people in the AOT office at Washington state and I have been blowing them up for months through email, you know, in a very professional way, and I was very fortunate. My son has never had a history of criminal involvement. He's never been in the criminal justice system.

Speaker 2:

Fortunately, after 12 hours of an escalated incident, 12 hours of me calling every single mental health crisis number that we have available here in King County and getting no help, he was arrested for his behavior and at that time, aot finally got involved and took his case. So had I not been advocating for months up until that point, working with the local case management team, et cetera, he would have not had the care that he received while in custody at King County. So fortunately, aot was able to at least supervise his experience there. He did not get charged with any crime. He was on a mental health hold for two weeks and then he was released without a treatment plan. It wasn't just a gap in treatment, it was more of a cliff where they're not giving me any visibility because he's an adult.

Speaker 1:

Yes, very common.

Speaker 2:

You know how it goes, and so now the AOT team is saying they're going to provide wraparound services. So I'm hopeful that the AOT program will develop and I'm aiding in that process. Right, I'm getting as many people involved as possible.

Speaker 1:

So that sounds like things are starting to work out Now since he's been released. How has that gone? Has it been a bumpy road, or have things smoothed out? And all the other things you're putting in place are starting to work the way they should.

Speaker 2:

So we're in the process of building a wraparound team. I am bringing together social workers, public defenders, advocates. We're petitioning for court-ordered treatment. I'm setting boundaries right. I love my son with every fiber of my being, but love without structure can become enabling, and so boundaries are an act of protection for both of us.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I'm pushing for policy change, so every day I'm talking to the people in the community about what we can do. Next, he does call, so he's currently homeless. He does call about once a week. He'll call either myself or his father. We're encouraging him to seek treatment. I don't believe that he has the self-awareness to really climb out of the hole that he's in, so he needs wraparound support and that's where we're at today.

Speaker 1:

You say he's homeless. Is he living on the street or is he living in a shelter, or a combination of both?

Speaker 2:

He's in and out of the local shelter and that is very, very, very hard for me.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure it is.

Speaker 2:

To say that out loud to a public audience is very, very hard, because we moved mountains to make sure that he wouldn't fall through the cracks, and so that's why I bring this back to. This isn't a matter of economic status, right? This isn't a matter of education or funding to address the challenges that we have, especially when you're dealing with an adult family member who is, by law, unable to make their own decisions. We have very little room to intervene.

Speaker 1:

So what's your next step? He's living where he's living. He understands there's a problem. Unfortunately, he's not getting the medication or the treatment that he needs. To turn that around so he can get past it. So what's your next steps to make this better?

Speaker 2:

So we're working closely with the assisted outpatient treatment team. We're putting together an ACT team, which is the sort of community treatment. They will go to him wherever he is. They will visit him. We're bringing together peer support, surrounding him with people that are his age, that have lived experience, that have grown out of these challenges and have brought their lives together. We have other interventions available when he's ready, such as metabolic psychiatry support, functional medicine providers. We've put together a caregiving training program at the local care agency. When he's ready to live on his own again and live independently, we can provide that caregiver support and actual caregivers to come in the home and help him maintain his autonomy as much as possible. So these are the things we're working on.

Speaker 2:

I'm the type of person to take action when I'm being challenged or when I'm trying to cope. So if I don't have something I'm working on, I will also go into a meltdown. You know what I mean. I have to be constantly taking action. So I do have my checklist. I think the thing we're focusing on the most, and what's most urgent, is petitioning for court-ordered treatment at this point.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that's great treatment at this point.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that's great so what happened to your son? Did that lead you to starting your own charity? So I don't run a charity. What I have is a holistic mental health clinic here in Bellevue, washington. I've partnered with a psychiatrist and addiction specialist who is integrated in his practice. He's also the chief medical officer at the largest behavioral health agency in the state of Washington, and so at our clinic we offer holistic interventions such as blood testing, which I believe should be the very first step in any urgent mental health crisis. We need to test their blood and see what biological factors may be occurring. We offer IV therapy, and I could go on and on and on about the services there and clinic at the center of it. So anyone living at the shelter can walk outside of their independent living apartment and walk directly into a clinic where they have clinicians and physicians available all day, every day, and that has been a miracle.

Speaker 1:

So is that happening all across the state or just in your area?

Speaker 2:

That is happening in Yakima, washington, which is there about two hours drive from the greater Seattle area, and in my personal opinion, from what I've seen from Washington State, it is by far the best model. They've been able to provide more behavioral health services and more housing solutions than any other organization in Washington State in only six months.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that's great.

Speaker 2:

So they're making big, big change over there, huge change, and they're doing it with virtually no money, so it's not hundreds of millions of dollars into these kinds of projects. They've been able to successfully launch and maintain their programs with virtually no budget, so this is what we're advocating for.

Speaker 1:

How do they do it when you've got all these companies across the US that are all about the money? The more money they get, the more things they can do. And then you have a clinic like this that is operating on little or no money and succeeding. So tell me what's the difference?

Speaker 2:

That's a loaded question. So you know it's about bringing humanitarians together. I think that it speaks volumes when we're having a celebratory fundraiser and there was no cost to putting on the event. So these are the things you want to look for if you're looking to support an organization. It was hosted at a church. The entertainment volunteered their time, the culinary catering volunteered their time. We had people from the shelter helping to serve the dinner. The CEO his name is Michael Kay was offered a raise from the board of directors at Comprehensive and he turned it down, saying that we can't afford to give me a raise right now.

Speaker 1:

Wow, very impressive.

Speaker 2:

It's really about finding the right people who care, and you'll know if they're that type of person or not when you see this kind of evidence, right?

Speaker 1:

Right. So is this all across the state or is it just in their area?

Speaker 2:

That specific model is in Yakima, washington. I know that a bunch of leadership members went to Philadelphia last week and they're also finding other models that are working there and trying to bring those here as well. So there's certainly people all over the US doing really great things. This is just what's happening in my own vicinity.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so it seems like that model needs to be spread out, at least through your state, to make it better for everyone.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely, and we're happy to share this model with anyone who wants to take a look at the blueprints and how they put it together. They're actually assembling shipping containers. We've had amazing testimonies. We've had homeless members of our community that have been 100% rehabilitated after years and years and years of homelessness and polysubstance use and society had given up on them and they're fully rehabilitated and back in society. So I'm optimistic that this is a great model.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it definitely sounds awesome. So what's the next step? You've done all this so far. What are the next plans to possibly take this to a greater level?

Speaker 2:

So if my son were here with us today, he'd be sharing the songs that he writes. He'd be making you laugh. He's a big dreamer and he deserves to do just that every day. Every person with serious mental illness deserves the right to thrive and not just survive. So if you're listening and want you to ask yourself what can I do to make a difference, okay, maybe it's writing a letter just later in your area. Maybe it's showing up at a local mental health board meeting. Maybe it's checking in on a friend who's caring for someone in crisis.

Speaker 2:

You can reach out to us at Shattering Silence or visit our website for toolkits, letters and advocacy templates. You can reach out to me personally if you'd like to learn more about any of the interventions I mentioned or need advocacy. I will attend any meeting anywhere in the US, provided I have the availability on my schedule. You can reach me at liana at seattlenadcom. That's L-E-A-N-N-A at Seattle, like the city nancyappledogcom, my phone number. You're welcome to call or text 425-393-4762. This is what it is. These are the next steps. It's staying engaged, it's staying connected, it's communicating new ideas, communicating what's working, what's not, and it's not giving up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the most important word that you just said is not giving up. You just got to keep plugging away. So what do you tell people? Schizophrenia can feel like an overwhelming and isolating experience, not only for those diagnosed, but also for their loved ones, who often feel lost and afraid when faced with this complex situation. What, in your opinion, are the most effective ways to support and empower individuals with schizophrenia? How do we educate and reassure families and communities to reduce the fear, the stigma and uncertainty surrounding this mental health challenge?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, and you're doing a great job of that, tony. Every single day you're helping people to tell their stories. So the more we can educate the public, raise awareness, the better. And I think you know I'd like to speak to that place. That's kind of quiet, that's underlying from what you're saying, and that is kind of the place that isn't polished or solved or wrapped in a bow right. We don't have all the answers. It is the scariest, most challenging experience that I've ever witnessed or have experienced in my life.

Speaker 2:

I recently read the first three chapters of the book Difficult Mothering a Child with Mental Illness by Judah Smith, and I was flooded with overwhelming grief and sadness, not just because the stories were powerful, but because they feel like my own. So these mothers, parents, families, their children, their family members, your heartbreaks. They live inside all of our lives. I don't think anyone's really immune to this, and that's really the understanding that we have to reach is that this affects everyone. We no longer have the luxury of turning a blind eye. It's everywhere and there's a particular kind of grief that mothers carry when their child struggles with severe mental illness. It's not the kind you recover from, it's the kind that stays.

Speaker 1:

When you put it just the way that you did, that's a very powerful statement. So how do you convey a pain that's so profound? It's unlike anything they've ever known A silent, unshakable weight that lingers in every moment to someone who's never felt it or struggles to understand it?

Speaker 2:

I would say look up and read about ambiguous grief. Ambiguous grief is what we're experiencing when we're losing someone who's still with us, like they may be physically present but their mind is gone. Or opposite right, they might be gone physically but they're calling week to week. We don't know where they are. Ambiguous grief is so painful because, like you said, we don't have the answers. We don't know how this is going to play out. We're completely powerless and no one is coming through with a plan. And it is the scariest, darkest place, and I say we're in the dark ages. You know, washington state has the most money than any other state in the US per capita and we're in the dark ages when it comes to mental health care. So it's about understanding that emotional experience and not allowing it to consume you. And you've got to move the emotion. You have to move the emotion or you will become paralyzed. You have to move through it and you have to talk about it.

Speaker 1:

So how do you get through it? What is your secret?

Speaker 2:

I talk about it. Yeah, I cry, I cry, I exercise, I call out for help. And there's some days, tony, that I just don't move at all. We're tired, we are so tired. Sure, I want you to know if you're listening and you're tired. It's okay, it's okay. It doesn't mean that you're weak. It doesn't mean that you're weak. It doesn't mean that you're failing. It's okay to be tired and it's okay to rest, and some days, that's what we do.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I think you hit a very good thing on the parent side. When you go through something like you're going through with your son, you're consistently thinking about it. You don't have the power to change it. It can get depressing. Depression can lead to a lot of things. It can make people tired, no energy, lethargic. How do you get past that so you don't fall into that trap? How do you keep yourself motivated so that you can get out there and beat that drone to hopefully make things better?

Speaker 2:

Well, here's the thing is know your limits. So you know, not every single person going through this has to go out and become a policymaker, right, like that was what was working for me, but maybe what's working for the next person is accountability in a different form. I think accountability is a very general answer that works for most people. The moment we start to isolate and we stop taking action or start freaking about self-care and routine, that's a dangerous place to be. We certainly don't want to be coping with harmful substances or anything like that either, right? So it's really about accountability. If you have a loved one or a partner or friends or family or anybody to check in with you, to communicate with, to really be transparent about how you're really doing today, I think that's really a good starting point.

Speaker 1:

So what would you tell people that are just getting the understanding of what their son or daughter will be going through? They are still figuring it out, but still trying to cope with it. What advice would you give them? Because it's not just them now that have to deal with it. They've got an entire circle of people within their community, their friends, their family, people they work with. So many people that might not understand or support it. Some people that I've spoken with they don't want to talk about it because unfortunately, for lack of a better word, they're a little ashamed of it, even though they don't need to be. So what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so there's an overwhelming level of shame. And, yeah, you're correct. If you suspect that your circle, your community, your friends and family won't understand, chances are they probably won't Because, like you said, tony, unless they've been through it themselves they just don't get it. Even the people that do stand by you and that do try to understand, they just won't at the end of the day. And that's okay and we can accept that. And if you're not comfortable talking about it, don't Talk to the people that you're comfortable opening up to your personal life and certainly someone else's protected health information. You know this is your family member's personal life as well. We don't broadcast that. So this is a very different situation in my case. But you know, in the beginning it was between me and my two family members. It was the three of us dealing with this Sort of.

Speaker 2:

The long answer is look into what the five stages of grief are. Expect that you're probably in denial right now. Expect that you're probably going to be trying to solve this and just prepare yourself for each phase and prepare yourself for the reality of what might occur. But stay optimistic as well and just don't give up. Optimistic as well and just don't give up. The only thing that got me through, with all the ups and downs and all the confusion and what works and doesn't work, is the message to never give up. Just don't give up. Don't give up on yourself, don't give up on your family member, and whatever that means. Right, I had to set boundaries. I cannot be in the same room with my loved one today, as much as I'd like to be, for his safety and my safety. We've had to put some barriers between us, and that's okay. So you don't give up and you do what's necessary to keep going.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I don't want to downplay what you just said. They are great words, but great words, even though they're well-meaning, sometimes can fall short when they're feeling that pain, even though it's not physical, it's emotional, and that can be as crippling as physical pain. So how do you help someone push through when don't give up just isn't enough? How do you inspire them to truly believe they can overcome this this?

Speaker 2:

Sometimes it's okay to lose that belief. Sometimes it's okay to say I can't anymore, I don't know what to do anymore. I've done everything, I know how to. I'm giving up today, it's over, I can't do this. And sometimes the situation wins. That's okay too. Whatever the emotion is, you have to be accepting and move through it and just know that you're going to wake up again tomorrow. Sometimes miracles happen. You know, I've had times where I just couldn't find the answers and I did everything I knew how to do, and this would completely consume me. And then you get a phone call, you get an email, you get good news. So recognize that it's not just you carrying this and please don't ever carry this alone.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, you know, you kind of said what I was going to ask you next, but that's okay, it was going to be in closing. What would you like to tell people that they need to hear? So I'm sure that you have more information that you can add to this.

Speaker 2:

So there's the emotional side of this, and then there's also the logistics. So if you have it in you to advocate for your family member, here's what you need to know. You need to document everything dates, hospital visits, behaviors, medications, refusals of services. Keep a record. It matters when you're advocating, especially in legal or policy settings. Learn the language of the system. Understand terms like gravely disabled, least restrictive, alternative and assisted outpatient treatment.

Speaker 2:

Knowing how these systems work empowers you to challenge them effectively. Build a wraparound team. Do not do this alone. Involve care coordinators, social workers, public defenders, psychiatrists and, yes, as many advocates that are willing to listen and show up on days that it matters. Your voice matters. A team amplifies your voice. Find an attorney who specializes in petitioning for court-ordered treatment. And two more things Don't give up on love, but set boundaries. Set boundaries because love without structure can become enabling. Boundaries are an act of protection for both of you. Push for policy change. Our systems won't change until people like us demand it. That's why I work with National Shattering Silence Coalition to end the criminalization, neglect and abandonment of our loved ones and then find the solutions that work. We're talking about them every single day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great information. Well, this has been good Great information, great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Tony. I'm so grateful you had me here today and thank you for all the work that you're doing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone who has a story to share, tell them to contact us at whynotmeworld. One last thing spread the word about why Not Me, our conversations, our inspiring guests that show you are not alone in this world.